CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: chambers on July 18, 2013, 09:07:28 AM
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So continuing on from EDWARDO's earlier post ...Aldridge is...well he isn't a franchise guy but he's in the same tier of 2nd options on a championship team like Rondo. ie...He's better than Millsap or Josh Smith, Ellis etc but not quite on a Zeebo, Pau Gasol level. But he hasnt been given the best chance to succeed with bums like JJ Hickson, an aging camby, juwan howard etc...Oden lasted 5 minutes. you get the picture. id say he has the potential to be a starter over Chris Bosh in the East and Rondo would make him a lot better on offense. Again thinking of his team mates...consider the PGs he's played with in steve blake, andre miller,Felton, Lillard etc.. He cant carry a team but like Rondo hes great 2nd option and a good scorer/rebounder next to Rondo and Sully. 21 points and 9 rebounds. Big numbers with those bums. Imagine Rondo helping him and could he be a 23-24 ppg and 10 rebounder.
If we want to tempt Carmelo in 2014 or Marc Gasol/Durant in 2015 we'll need a 2nd magnet guy like this Rondo.
So, to get this 'second' piece of a three piece championship core, we'd have give up multiple good assets. Even with Green, rondo and sully and Aldridge we'd be good but we'd need a true superstar to contend with the Heat. That means moving Green to bring in Melo or Sully/Avery to bring in Love/ Gasol. Not to mention multiple picks of which we have plenty.
Please bare in mind I've put what I'd consider the very least the Blazers would demand for an AllStar 6'11" with one of the best offensive repertoires in the NBA.
So, if we could get Aldridge by trading one of Green, Bradley, Sully and first round picks- or anything else other than Rondo, would you do it?
I'd consider him the Ray Allen and someone like Carmelo or M Gasol the KG/superstar. But both these guys would only be available because of a dissatisfaction in their current situation.
Even if we got Aldridge, getting the franchise guy is about as good a chance as drafting Wiggins or Parker but Aldridge next to Rondo would look very tasty to Lebron, Melo, Durant etc in the next 24 months.
So what would you give up?
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I would offer 1 young player (sully, KO or Avery), 2 1st, and expiring deals.
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I would do Sullinger+Bass+a first rounder. Not entirely sure if that would get it done though. Probably throw in an expiring too or another pick
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Sullinger, Humphries and two firsts (none of which will be in 2014)
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I would offer 1 young player (sully, KO or Avery), 2 1st, and expiring deals.
I would do this, as well - Whatever young player they want, I imagine that would be Sully. One of the 2 firsts may need to be ours next year, which I am okay with. If we do it this year, it would be Humphries, next year would be Bass and Lee (if they want him).
I basically think we need to give up anything except Rondo (who they don't need at all) and Green (who I would also trade if it came down to it - we then keep Wallace and hope for the best). Working out a trade for center prospect would be huge, too (Cousins anybody??)
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Perhaps One of the pitbulls (Brad-Lee), Crawford, Humphries, the Clips 2015 pick and any one of the picks from the Nets
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These trades are nice for the Celtics but aren't enough for a guy like LMA.
We would have to give up 2 of our young pieces (Green, Avery, Sullinger, KO), 2 first rounders, and possibly expirings instead of just filler contracts.
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Perhaps One of the pitbulls (Brad-Lee), Crawford, Humphries, the Clips 2015 pick and any one of the picks from the Nets
i don't think that would be enough.
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I would offer 1 young player (sully, KO or Avery), 2 1st, and expiring deals.
interesting...who would you keep if you had the choice, Sully or KO?
I think KO had a higher ceiling, more potential.
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I would offer 1 young player (sully, KO or Avery), 2 1st, and expiring deals.
interesting...who would you keep if you had the choice, Sully or KO?
I think KO had a higher ceiling, more potential.
I'd keep Sully. His rebounding and defense will be more useful to us.
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I would offer 1 young player (sully, KO or Avery), 2 1st, and expiring deals.
interesting...who would you keep if you had the choice, Sully or KO?
I think KO had a higher ceiling, more potential.
Sullinger easily.
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The question isn't what would you give up, it is what would Portland want and therein lies the rub.
I think something like this would probably work for both teams
Aldridge, Matthews
for
Sullinger, Bradley, Brooks, Melo (if they want), Humphries, 2014 Brooklyn 1st (top 16 protected or something like that), 2015 Boston 1st (lottery protected)
Leaves Boston
PG - Rondo, Pressey
SG - Matthews, Lee, Crawford
SF - Green, Wallace, Bogans
PF - Aldridge, Bass, Randolph
C - Olynyk, Wilcox, Iverson
I'm sure Aldridge would play a fair amount at center to allow Wallace and Bass more time at PF to optimize the lineup with the better players. Not a title contender, but a good solid mid-range playoff team in the East that with one more move could jump into the upper echelon and is young enough to do so.
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These trades are nice for the Celtics but aren't enough for a guy like LMA.
We would have to give up 2 of our young pieces (Green, Avery, Sullinger, KO), 2 first rounders, and possibly expirings instead of just filler contracts.
Agreed.
In the other thread, I said I could live with Avery + Sully + Humps expiring + draft considerations. I'd like to Keep KO, I thinm his shooting ability would make him a better complement to LMA.
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Yeah, my answer is basically whatever they want that doesn't gut us. I'd love to spend the picks, so 2 firsts is fine.
If I had my droothers, I would trade them Bradley and 2 firsts, with Humphries to match salaries.
If they countered asking me to add Olynyk, I'd do it. If they wanted more than that, there's no logical way to proceed.
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The question isn't what would you give up, it is what would Portland want and therein lies the rub.
I think something like this would probably work for both teams
Aldridge, Matthews
for
Sullinger, Bradley, Brooks, Melo (if they want), Humphries, 2014 Brooklyn 1st (top 16 protected or something like that), 2015 Boston 1st (lottery protected)
Leaves Boston
PG - Rondo, Pressey
SG - Matthews, Lee, Crawford
SF - Green, Wallace, Bogans
PF - Aldridge, Bass, Randolph
C - Olynyk, Wilcox, Iverson
I'm sure Aldridge would play a fair amount at center to allow Wallace and Bass more time at PF to optimize the lineup with the better players. Not a title contender, but a good solid mid-range playoff team in the East that with one more move could jump into the upper echelon and is young enough to do so.
No chance they include Mathews. He's a quality starting guard on a fair contract.
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These trades are nice for the Celtics but aren't enough for a guy like LMA.
We would have to give up 2 of our young pieces (Green, Avery, Sullinger, KO), 2 first rounders, and possibly expirings instead of just filler contracts.
I'm not so sure.
If LMA decides not to resign with the Blazers, then it depends on what the Blazers can get back in a trade. I think the Celtics actually do have a lot to offer in the way of trade assets between filler, draft picks and young assets, and potentially could offer more than other teams.
In other words, the question isn't what Portland would accept, but rather who else might be competing with Boston to land LMA (and what those other teams might be offering).
In any case, I wouldn't break the bank for LMA. Patience is the name of the game here, and it likely means a few years of misery for Boston fans until the right player becomes available....
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Anything but rondo? No brainer
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1. Blazers have said they aren't looking for draft picks. A trade based around our cache of first rounders won't cut it.
2. Portland has been targeting guys like Griffin, Noah, and Davis. Obviously they're not getting them, but this is another indication Portland isn't looking to get rebuilding assets.
3. Portland has all the leverage. LMA has 2 years left, and while he's expressed interest, he hasn't officially demanded a trade yet. They're not going to trade for cents on the dollar - yet.
If Boston is making a move for LMA, it's most likely not going to be until next offseason, unless something drastic happens. And when they do, a garbage package involving Sullinger + Bass + picks won't cut it. Quite honestly, we're going to have to let go of Green, or involve a third team.
That being said, I would love to have LMA in Boston. He would make a killer tandem with Rondo. Also, contrary to popular belief here, LMA is very underrated. Yes, he can't carry a team to a championship on his own, but then again, how many players can? Very few. LMA's skillset has and will continue to make him an awesome second option on a contending team.
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I would offer
AB
Sully or KO
Humpheries expiring
2 1st rd picks
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The question isn't what would you give up, it is what would Portland want and therein lies the rub.
I think something like this would probably work for both teams
Aldridge, Matthews
for
Sullinger, Bradley, Brooks, Melo (if they want), Humphries, 2014 Brooklyn 1st (top 16 protected or something like that), 2015 Boston 1st (lottery protected)
Leaves Boston
PG - Rondo, Pressey
SG - Matthews, Lee, Crawford
SF - Green, Wallace, Bogans
PF - Aldridge, Bass, Randolph
C - Olynyk, Wilcox, Iverson
I'm sure Aldridge would play a fair amount at center to allow Wallace and Bass more time at PF to optimize the lineup with the better players. Not a title contender, but a good solid mid-range playoff team in the East that with one more move could jump into the upper echelon and is young enough to do so.
No chance they include Mathews. He's a quality starting guard on a fair contract.
They are getting Bradley and Brooks in the trade, how many SG's do they need? And his reasonable contract is just under 8 million in each of the next two years. It doesn't make sense for them to pay him that much given the current direction of their team (post-trade). If they don't include Matthews, then Boston needs to take out Bradley from the trade as Boston needs a starting SG. I think they would rather have Bradley (and the big savings in dollars) and Boston (post-trade) Matthews makes more sense for.
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Wouldn't give KO (let the dude play first) or Sullinger right now (and no way in hell would give up Green), but could trade AB + expiring (or 2 average contracts) plus clippers pick, another 1st and maybe a 2nd or two. Don't see they would do it, since as Cman said other teams will also enter the competition. But he is a FA ending next season so it could backfire on them (or us if he come here and leaves as FA).
I would rather "save" and use more resources for others players, or in the case of selecting some Big Man for a trade that would involve Sullinger, try to get DeMarcus Cousins, who is younger and will get us more results for many years to come.
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I'm not sure, but I'd hope to leave enough in the cupboard to add Cousins to LMA and Rondo.
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Bradley is the second oldest member of the Celtics team behind Rondo it seems.
I'm all up for trading him. His defense will be missed! But his atrocious offense won't be.
Sully is a keeper.
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to be honest
aldridge, KO and Sully seems .....fun
to say the very least in the offense
SAD
to say the very least in deffense
still
FUN
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to be honest
aldridge, KO and Sully seems .....fun
to say the very least in the offense
SAD
to say the very least in deffense
still
FUN
hmmmmm. I love defense. (Amost as much as I love fun.)
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Nothing this year. I think we're swinging for the (tanking) fence and wouldn't want to move our only equivalent asset (Rondo) for LMA. Aldridge makes us a playoff team for sure. If he's really unhappy in Portland I'd let him stew there another season and try to steal him in a deal summer 2014. He'll be on the last year of his deal, still upset with the lack of progress from Portland and wanting out. That is when the Celtics with a healthy Rondo and a young stud from the 2014 draft class offer Green/AB and the LAC 2015 1st rounder for him. Right now Portland has all the leverage. With Aldridge threatening to walk we have a chance to snag him for assets.
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Nobody. We rebuilding. Plus what has aldridge done for portland so far? I dont even think they made the playoffs since he was drafted. He can provide more impact on both ends but he doesnt imo. Shys away from the rough stuff is also a pet peeve of mine. I rather keep sully and olynyk.
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Nobody. We rebuilding. Plus what has aldridge done for portland so far? I dont even think they made the playoffs since he was drafted. He can provide more impact on both ends but he doesnt imo. Shys away from the rough stuff is also a pet peeve of mine. I rather keep sully and olynyk.
They made the playoffs three years in a row with him on the roster.
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Nobody. We rebuilding. Plus what has aldridge done for portland so far? I dont even think they made the playoffs since he was drafted. He can provide more impact on both ends but he doesnt imo. Shys away from the rough stuff is also a pet peeve of mine. I rather keep sully and olynyk.
They made the playoffs three years in a row with him on the roster.
Fair enough. Dont think they made past the 1st round though. He is not the only one to blame but for the kind of money he makes i would expect more.
Bottom line is i wouldnt make a trade for him
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I would offer
AB
Sully or KO
Humpheries expiring
2 1st rd picks
This. Which is why we have to play them a lot this year guide them to be as productive as they can be.
I already said in a thread I made that if either Sully or KO averages 15/7 in this year, their potential and adding Humph and a proven player along with picks this year could be a solid package offer.
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http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ktcjkxc
Aldridge to Boston
Bradley, Sullinger, Humphries and 2 firsts
Aldridge is a top 3 PF in this league, despite what our green shaded glasses show him as
Portland won't give him away for Peanuts.
Then try Wallace, Crawford and a pick for Asik
Rondo, Brooks, Green, Aldridge, Asik
That team contends next year as top seed in West
Using leftover picks toget a SG in the draft
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Nevermind saw I had to pick from the poll.
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for me it was Lee, Bass and Sullinger with teh two picks and I am not sure that gets it done. Depends on the picks for sure.
I guess my biggest concern with this is not the Green, Rondo, Aldridge core but that Aldridge really needs a true center next to him kinda like KG. KG had his most success with Perk next to him IMHO. Sure you could argue numbers of one year vs the next, just my opinion.
Not sure we have one out of the Melo, Olynyk, etc that would get the job done. Forget playing Aldridge big minutes at the 5 in a small line up with Humphries, Bass, Sullinger or Green at the PF. Maybe if we had a Gasol or Z-bo type then OK.
I think we would be better if we went after Omer Asik or Marc Gasol with a few players and picks. Then with the depth we have left out of Humphries, Olynyk, Bass, etc at the PF we are much better.
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for me it was Lee, Bass and Sullinger with teh two picks and I am not sure that gets it done. Depends on the picks for sure.
I guess my biggest concern with this is not the Green, Rondo, Aldridge core but that Aldridge really needs a true center next to him kinda like KG. KG had his most success with Perk next to him IMHO. Sure you could argue numbers of one year vs the next, just my opinion.
Not sure we have one out of the Melo, Olynyk, etc that would get the job done. Forget playing Aldridge big minutes at the 5 in a small line up with Humphries, Bass, Sullinger or Green at the PF. Maybe if we had a Gasol or Z-bo type then OK.
I think we would be better if we went after Omer Asik or Marc Gasol with a few players and picks. Then with the depth we have left out of Humphries, Olynyk, Bass, etc at the PF we are much better.
no way Portland is going to accept Bass and Lee. They would want Humpheries expiring contract
Something like
Bos sends: Humpheries(exp)Sully, 2 1st's
Por sends: Aldridge
Then send TE and Bradley to Houston for Asik
PG: Rondo / Pressy
SG: Lee / Brooks
SF: Green / Wallace
PF: Aldridge / Bass
C: Asik / KO
I REALLY like that roster !
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Boston sends: Bass, Lee, Sullinger, Crawford, 1st round
Portland sends: Aldridge, Matthews Freeland
Houston sends: Asik
Boston gets: Aldridge, Freeland
Portland gets: Asik, Bass, Lee, Sullinger, 1st round
Houston gets: Matthews, Crawford
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Bos sends: Humpheries(exp)Sully, 2 1st's
Por sends: Aldridge
Then send TE and Bradley to Houston for Asik
PG: Rondo / Pressy
SG: Lee / Brooks
SF: Green / Wallace
PF: Aldridge / Bass
C: Asik / KO
Me too but not sold on the SG.
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Bos sends: Humpheries(exp)Sully, 2 1st's
Por sends: Aldridge
Then send TE and Bradley to Houston for Asik
PG: Rondo / Pressy
SG: Lee / Brooks
SF: Green / Wallace
PF: Aldridge / Bass
C: Asik / KO
Me too but not sold on the SG.
Lee is an above average starting SG and Brooks is a great offensive spark off the bench. That is a very solid looking lineup. The only issue is that there is no way Portland trades LMA for Sully, two picks, and an expiring. It's a fair return value, but they're looking to make a lateral move, not blow things up.