CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ctrey on July 03, 2013, 11:57:51 PM
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
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From what i am reading about him seems like a pretty cool idea. I am totally embracing Stevens.
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And an analytical approach I think is exactly the kind of approach I see working well with Rondo. Where Doc's move at times were based on feel, with Stevens I see cold hard facts supporting his decisions. And we all know Rondo is the type of guy to disagree with an idea he doesn't see the logic in. With Stevens it should be pretty straight-forward. And because Rondo processes things in the same way, very calculating, I see Stevens being receptive to Rondo's feedback not just as a leader on the team but as someone who simply sees what works and what doesn't. With Doc, clearly some things were received and some fell on deaf ears.
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Rondo IQ + analytics = mind blowing stuff.
When Cannon graduated with a degree in statistics last spring, he had modest expectations of finding a job right away. "We were hoping he would not be living in the basement," said Jim Cannon, his father. "That was our goal. And his."
Instead of toiling in the basement, Cannon spent the season on the Butler bench and will be with the team when the Bulldogs play Bucknell in the NCAA tournament on Thursday. Cannon's experience interning with recruiting analyst Dave Telep and his advanced writing about basketball analytics gained the attention of Butler coach Brad Stevens, who offered him a job as a graduate manager this summer.
Cannon takes MBA classes at Butler and makes just $1,000 per month, but his work has significantly impacted how Butler uses lineups and helped him emerge as a potentially transformative figure on the college basketball landscape. Cannon is considered to be the first pure statistics-based hire on a college basketball staff. When Stevens called to offer Cannon a job, Cannon's father said to his son, "Does he realize you are monumentally under qualified for this position?"
In reality, Cannon's experience in scouting and analyzing data has made him the perfect match with the numbers-savvy Butler program. Stevens, a longtime proponent of advanced statistical metrics, said if he had unlimited resources he would create his own statistics division. For now, he has Cannon and gushes about how his research has shaped lineups, substitution patterns and converted the staff's statistical skeptics.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-college-basketball-mens-tournament/news/20130320/drew-cannon-butler/#ixzz2Y3C45gc1
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wow. The Celtics now have gone very anaalytic as opposed to the feelings based system before.
If this is true, then he will succeed here as DA has been a proponent of advanced analytics.
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And an analytical approach I think is exactly the kind of approach I see working well with Rondo. Where Doc's move at times were based on feel, with Stevens I see cold hard facts supporting his decisions. And we all know Rondo is the type of guy to disagree with an idea he doesn't see the logic in. With Stevens it should be pretty straight-forward. And because Rondo processes things in the same way, very calculating, I see Stevens being receptive to Rondo's feedback not just as a leader on the team but as someone who simply sees what works and what doesn't. With Doc, clearly some things were received and some fell on deaf ears.
This. I think this is where these two will get along. He will take Rondo's words and use them. Heck i think he is going to need some help from Rondo, just because he is going to see some stuff in the league that he never has before. But I think Rondo will be able to work with him fine because Stevens will be able to relate to Rajon.
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And an analytical approach I think is exactly the kind of approach I see working well with Rondo. Where Doc's move at times were based on feel, with Stevens I see cold hard facts supporting his decisions. And we all know Rondo is the type of guy to disagree with an idea he doesn't see the logic in. With Stevens it should be pretty straight-forward. And because Rondo processes things in the same way, very calculating, I see Stevens being receptive to Rondo's feedback not just as a leader on the team but as someone who simply sees what works and what doesn't. With Doc, clearly some things were received and some fell on deaf ears.
Dude
1st TP
2nd Can I give another TP?
Best comment I have read in a month.
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I hope he does get hired. Butler's basketball program changed when Stevens and Cannon worked together.
And I was reading Steven's Wiki page, in there it says "if he had the resources, Stevens says he would hire a team of statisticians to analyze the teams play."
Well, if he can convince the Celtics that this system works, I don't think resources would be a problem.
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Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
Good luck to Drew Cannon in Boston. Big promotion for him as well.
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Great to hear he's coming along, was just reading about him. Very interested to see how a guy like Cannon operates on a professional level.
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Any confirmation on if he's getting hired? I just read Kevin O'Conner's piece on the front page and came away thinking Drew Cannon was the brains of the operation.
http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/7/4/4492756/brad-stevens-the-nbas-next-great-head-coach-boston-celtics-nba-butler-bulldogs-analytics-philosophy
Butler has found secret weapon in statistical guru Drew Cannon - Pete Thamel - SI.com
What makes Cannon's value tricky to quantify is that he and Stevens are reluctant to share many specifics of his research. There are simple things he does like keep practice statistics, track the efficiency of specific set plays and the statistical tendencies of opponents.
But as far as the in-depth statistical analysis, Stevens gave only a peek as to not forfeit an edge. Cannon sends Stevens a 10-page e-mail breaking down and analyzing the numbers after every Butler game. The report takes 10 to 12 hours for Cannon to put together.
Cannon's greatest value is with lineup analysis, as Stevens terms his work "unreal." "It includes every player, pairs of players, groups of three, big lineups, small lineups, etc.," Stevens said. Cannon will also include the offensive and defensive efficiency of Butler's players from previous matchups with an opponent, which Stevens said, "Will help me determine probable sub patterns, late game lineups, etc."
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Rondo IQ + analytics = mind blowing stuff.
When Cannon graduated with a degree in statistics last spring, he had modest expectations of finding a job right away. "We were hoping he would not be living in the basement," said Jim Cannon, his father. "That was our goal. And his."
Instead of toiling in the basement, Cannon spent the season on the Butler bench and will be with the team when the Bulldogs play Bucknell in the NCAA tournament on Thursday. Cannon's experience interning with recruiting analyst Dave Telep and his advanced writing about basketball analytics gained the attention of Butler coach Brad Stevens, who offered him a job as a graduate manager this summer.
Cannon takes MBA classes at Butler and makes just $1,000 per month, but his work has significantly impacted how Butler uses lineups and helped him emerge as a potentially transformative figure on the college basketball landscape. Cannon is considered to be the first pure statistics-based hire on a college basketball staff. When Stevens called to offer Cannon a job, Cannon's father said to his son, "Does he realize you are monumentally under qualified for this position?"
In reality, Cannon's experience in scouting and analyzing data has made him the perfect match with the numbers-savvy Butler program. Stevens, a longtime proponent of advanced statistical metrics, said if he had unlimited resources he would create his own statistics division. For now, he has Cannon and gushes about how his research has shaped lineups, substitution patterns and converted the staff's statistical skeptics.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-college-basketball-mens-tournament/news/20130320/drew-cannon-butler/#ixzz2Y3C45gc1
moneyball II. so what are rondo's win shares?
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Any news on Drew's hiring?
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
Just for the record: the Celtics have been using statistical analysis for a while. Not sure what exactly Cannon's system is but just saying this wouldn't be brand new.
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
He was sitting all the way on the left, to Brad Stevens' right, if I remember correctly. I'll be on the lookout for agan today, I didn't put one and two together yesterday.
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
Just for the record: the Celtics have been using statistical analysis for a while. Not sure what exactly Cannon's system is but just saying this wouldn't be brand new.
They don't talk much about the entire process to keep their competitive edge, but articles state he prepares incredibly extensive analysis reports for every game/practice/opponent to Coach Stevens that takes 10-12 hours to prepare. He's also on the bench with the coaches for real time statistical analysis and contributions. Basically, an assistant coach math wiz that is 100% focused on gathering data and exploiting it to gain an advantage.
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Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
Good luck to Drew Cannon in Boston. Big promotion for him as well.
If true, his parents can rest easy. It's a long way from their basement. Meteoric rise.
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
Just for the record: the Celtics have been using statistical analysis for a while. Not sure what exactly Cannon's system is but just saying this wouldn't be brand new.
They don't talk much about the entire process to keep their competitive edge, but articles state he prepares incredibly extensive analysis reports for every game/practice/opponent to Coach Stevens that takes 10-12 hours to prepare. He's also on the bench with the coaches for real time statistical analysis and contributions. Basically, an assistant coach math wiz that is 100% focused on gathering data and exploiting it to gain an advantage.
He may have developed some good useful wrinkles, since his primary focus was supporting game coaching, whereas it seems as if Doc was a bit resistant to what Danny's supposedly top-notch numbers guys offered, and so they probably got their best traction in draft and FA analysis.
But Stevens undoubtedly needs some loyal guys of his own on his staff and Cannon seems like a good one. I could see him teaming with Zarren to provide Stevens with better and more usefully packaged coaching stats than either team has had in the past.
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Rondo IQ + analytics = mind blowing stuff.
When Cannon graduated with a degree in statistics last spring, he had modest expectations of finding a job right away. "We were hoping he would not be living in the basement," said Jim Cannon, his father. "That was our goal. And his."
Instead of toiling in the basement, Cannon spent the season on the Butler bench and will be with the team when the Bulldogs play Bucknell in the NCAA tournament on Thursday. Cannon's experience interning with recruiting analyst Dave Telep and his advanced writing about basketball analytics gained the attention of Butler coach Brad Stevens, who offered him a job as a graduate manager this summer.
Cannon takes MBA classes at Butler and makes just $1,000 per month, but his work has significantly impacted how Butler uses lineups and helped him emerge as a potentially transformative figure on the college basketball landscape. Cannon is considered to be the first pure statistics-based hire on a college basketball staff. When Stevens called to offer Cannon a job, Cannon's father said to his son, "Does he realize you are monumentally under qualified for this position?"
In reality, Cannon's experience in scouting and analyzing data has made him the perfect match with the numbers-savvy Butler program. Stevens, a longtime proponent of advanced statistical metrics, said if he had unlimited resources he would create his own statistics division. For now, he has Cannon and gushes about how his research has shaped lineups, substitution patterns and converted the staff's statistical skeptics.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-college-basketball-mens-tournament/news/20130320/drew-cannon-butler/#ixzz2Y3C45gc1
moneyball II. so what are rondo's win shares?
Basketball reference has had Rondo's win shares declining for five consecutive years--since he peaked in the '08-'09 season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
Just for the record: the Celtics have been using statistical analysis for a while. Not sure what exactly Cannon's system is but just saying this wouldn't be brand new.
They used analytics to get players, but it never made it to the coaching end. It was clear Doc ignored that kind of stuff with some of the pairs he was running out there. A pretty awesome statistical guy on the Celtics forum at realGM constantly talked about how bad it was to run specific pairs (like Lee and Bass or something) yet Doc always fell back on those lineups. It was clear he ignored stuff like that to force what he thinks should work.
It'll be an interesting change this season..
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
Just for the record: the Celtics have been using statistical analysis for a while. Not sure what exactly Cannon's system is but just saying this wouldn't be brand new.
They don't talk much about the entire process to keep their competitive edge, but articles state he prepares incredibly extensive analysis reports for every game/practice/opponent to Coach Stevens that takes 10-12 hours to prepare. He's also on the bench with the coaches for real time statistical analysis and contributions. Basically, an assistant coach math wiz that is 100% focused on gathering data and exploiting it to gain an advantage.
He may have developed some good useful wrinkles, since his primary focus was supporting game coaching, whereas it seems as if Doc was a bit resistant to what Danny's supposedly top-notch numbers guys offered, and so they probably got their best traction in draft and FA analysis.
But Stevens undoubtedly needs some loyal guys of his own on his staff and Cannon seems like a good one. I could see him teaming with Zarren to provide Stevens with better and more usefully packaged coaching stats than either team has had in the past.
Yeah good points.
I'm sure it was there in the game planning too but Stevens seems like another level of adopting that approach to the game, which I also like.
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
Just for the record: the Celtics have been using statistical analysis for a while. Not sure what exactly Cannon's system is but just saying this wouldn't be brand new.
They don't talk much about the entire process to keep their competitive edge, but articles state he prepares incredibly extensive analysis reports for every game/practice/opponent to Coach Stevens that takes 10-12 hours to prepare. He's also on the bench with the coaches for real time statistical analysis and contributions. Basically, an assistant coach math wiz that is 100% focused on gathering data and exploiting it to gain an advantage.
i read similarly on the time and level of reporting, which then allowed preparation during practice.
my concern is that this extensive and detailed a system will take a few years to take off for stevens. specifically, can drew really put 10 to 12 hour prep into each game in the nba? there are 82 games, no 20 something as in college.
further, compared to college there are lots of back to back games and few practices in the nba. there will not be nearly the same amount of time to teach/deploy stats.
i am not saying advanced stats wont work. i am saying these advanced stats and how they are used/deployed will be take time to work out. drew by himself is just not going to enough to duplicate the butler system in the celtics.
the first year will be a lot of learning and improvising by everyone involved. but danny and brad seem to understand that.
one of the big challenges for stevens and drew will be to successfully infuse nba coaching with stats as he uses them. but if he is successful, then ainge, drew, and stevens may revolutionize basketball the way billy beane changed baseball and how it assesses talent and winning. and that, i think, was one major attraction for stevens.
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
Just for the record: the Celtics have been using statistical analysis for a while. Not sure what exactly Cannon's system is but just saying this wouldn't be brand new.
They don't talk much about the entire process to keep their competitive edge, but articles state he prepares incredibly extensive analysis reports for every game/practice/opponent to Coach Stevens that takes 10-12 hours to prepare. He's also on the bench with the coaches for real time statistical analysis and contributions. Basically, an assistant coach math wiz that is 100% focused on gathering data and exploiting it to gain an advantage.
i read similarly on the time and level of reporting, which then allowed preparation during practice.
my concern is that this extensive and detailed a system will take a few years to take off for stevens. specifically, can drew really put 10 to 12 hour prep into each game in the nba? there are 82 games, no 20 something as in college.
further, compared to college there are lots of back to back games and few practices in the nba. there will not be nearly the same amount of time to teach/deploy stats.
i am not saying advanced stats wont work. i am saying these advanced stats and how they are used/deployed will be take time to work out. drew by himself is just not going to enough to duplicate the butler system in the celtics.
the first year will be a lot of learning and improvising by everyone involved. but danny and brad seem to understand that.
one of the big challenges for stevens and drew will be to successfully infuse nba coaching with stats as he uses them. but if he is successful, then ainge, drew, and stevens may revolutionize basketball the way billy beane changed baseball and how it assesses talent and winning. and that, i think, was one major attraction for stevens.
The C's have long had dedicated inhouse stats staff. Cannon won't be working alone, but it will be new to have a stats guy on the coaching staff feeding their product to a stats-friendly head coach.
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
He was sitting all the way on the left, to Brad Stevens' right, if I remember correctly. I'll be on the lookout for agan today, I didn't put one and two together yesterday.
I wondered if that was him.
If Cannon's analysis makes Stevens more comfortable, then Danny should hire him. Yes, the C's have been doing statistical analysis for sometime and probably have a staff of guys, but adding one more...specifically to be the "interface" between Stevens and the BIS (basketball information systems) staff seems like a great idea. It's not *my money. :)
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I saw a tweet from Draftexpress saying he has been. Can this be confirmed? If this is the case, it signals a revolutionary move regarding analytics and coaching for the Celtics. It could mean that the C's could be approaching the game in a brand new and very cutting edge way. Very exciting.
Just watched the Summer League game in my DVR and I think I spoted Drew Cannon seating alongside Mike Zarren, Brad Stevens, Danny and Austin Ainge.
He was sitting all the way on the left, to Brad Stevens' right, if I remember correctly. I'll be on the lookout for agan today, I didn't put one and two together yesterday.
I wondered if that was him.
If Cannon's analysis makes Stevens more comfortable, then Danny should hire him. Yes, the C's have been doing statistical analysis for sometime and probably have a staff of guys, but adding one more...specifically to be the "interface" between Stevens and the BIS (basketball information systems) staff seems like a great idea. It's not *my money. :)
Here's a clip of the guy I was talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrwd5epYma0
I'm not so sure that's Drew Cannon unless he lost some weight and got a better haircut. http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/03/20/2766369/raleigh-math-guru-cannon-is-butler.html
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I found him:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOq-w_MCQAAAUNR.jpg)
Red shirt on the left of the photo, he's with Danny Ainge, Austin Ainge, and another guy. I'm assuming Brad Stevens will show up and sit next to him soon.