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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: nostar on June 28, 2013, 09:12:54 PM

Title: Bill Simmons
Post by: nostar on June 28, 2013, 09:12:54 PM
I have to be honest, I don't always agree with Bill Simmons but a lot of the stuff he's been saying about Doc is spot on. He has done some fence sitting and he's tried to bail out without catching any negative PR. Bill wasn't having any of that.

As a Celtics fan I really just want to know what happened. I want to know if Danny shipped Doc off to LA or if Doc told Danny he didn't want to coach the Celtics anymore and Danny made lemonade or something in the middle. I feel like everything I heard from Doc was ambiguous and felt like minced words. I also wanted Doc to make good on his promises. I'm a big fan keeping promises and while this is a business I don't think it has to be a dishonest one.

For the record I'm not mad at Doc at all. I think an unprotected 2015 pick from LAC is reasonable compensation and I totally understand the C's not wanting to pay $7M to a top caliber coach for rebuilding. I get the logistics. But, maybe like Simmons, I can't help but feel like Doc was trying to sell me my own stuff. It felt too slick and the facts conflicted just enough that it didn't taste good.

So thank you Bill Simmons. I'm not your biggest fan but I certainly respect your cynical Celtics love and I like when questionable behavior is called out for what it is.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: ThaPreacher on June 28, 2013, 09:14:50 PM
I have to be honest, I don't always agree with Bill Simmons but a lot of the stuff he's been saying about Doc is spot on. He has done some fence sitting and he's tried to bail out without catching any negative PR. Bill wasn't having any of that.

As a Celtics fan I really just want to know what happened. I want to know if Danny shipped Doc off to LA or if Doc told Danny he didn't want to coach the Celtics anymore and Danny made lemonade or something in the middle. I feel like everything I heard from Doc was ambiguous and felt like minced words. I also wanted Doc to make good on his promises. I'm a big fan keeping promises and while this is a business I don't think it has to be a dishonest one.

For the record I'm not mad at Doc at all. I think an unprotected 2015 pick from LAC is reasonable compensation and I totally understand the C's not wanting to pay $7M to a top caliber coach for rebuilding. I get the logistics. But, maybe like Simmons, I can't help but feel like Doc was trying to sell me my own stuff. It felt too slick and the facts conflicted just enough that it didn't taste good.

So thank you Bill Simmons. I'm not your biggest fan but I certainly respect your cynical Celtics love and I like when questionable behavior is called out for what it is.



TP. Well said. Spot On.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: syfy9 on June 28, 2013, 09:16:54 PM
I like Bill Simmons too. "The Book of Basketball" was a really good read.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: pearljammer10 on June 28, 2013, 09:22:46 PM
I like Bill Simmons too. "The Book of Basketball" was a really good read.

TP for this. My favorite basketball read. I love Simmons he is so intelligent about the game, especially things related to the Celtics... Simmons for coach!! (Ok thats going a little far).
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Yogi on June 28, 2013, 09:29:05 PM
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: nostar on June 28, 2013, 09:37:28 PM
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.

I respectfully disagee. He's thoughtful and creative when talking about the game in a way that most pundits aren't. He doesn't have some silly song and dance (Steven A Smith), he's not a basketball god who just says the same 5 things on every broadcast (Magic Johnson, Shaq), and he's not trying desperately to keep his job by being congenial. I really respect that and that is why I tune in.

Also the Skip Bayless reference might count as libel, be careful :)
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Yogi on June 28, 2013, 09:40:20 PM
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.

I respectfully disagee. He's thoughtful and creative when talking about the game in a way that most pundits aren't. He doesn't have some silly song and dance (Steven A Smith), he's not a basketball god who just says the same 5 things on every broadcast (Magic Johnson, Shaq), and he's not trying desperately to keep his job by being congenial. I really respect that and that is why I tune in.

Also the Skip Bayless reference might count as libel, be careful :)
Honestly I didn't feel either comparisons were appropriate for a family friendly site, but that's how I feel about BS.  What exactly does he know about basketball?  He was a fan for a long time?  So are a million others.  That doesn't make them an expert!
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Kuberski33 on June 28, 2013, 10:05:27 PM
Simmons knows and understands the game - not to the extent of guys who've worked or played in the league but he can hold his own talking the game with those guys.  He adds to it the fans perspective.  It's not an easy role to pull off but he's manged to do it.  Heck you have GMs like Darryl Morey and Ryan Mcdonough who I don't think even played college ball - why can't he do what he does? 
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Yogi on June 28, 2013, 10:27:54 PM
Simmons knows and understands the game - not to the extent of guys who've worked or played in the league but he can hold his own talking the game with those guys.  He adds to it the fans perspective.  It's not an easy role to pull off but he's manged to do it.  Heck you have GMs like Darryl Morey and Ryan Mcdonough who I don't think even played college ball - why can't he do what he does?

Morey has degrees in statistics and MBA.  He's a pioneer of sports statistics serving as a chairman for the MIT Sports Analytics conference.  His specialization landed him a job as a consultant.  His success there lead to a front office job, where once again his success lead to a GM job where he once again has proven to be incredibly successful. 

Ryan McDonnough comes from a family deeply involved in sports analysis.  He also has a decade of incredibly successful scouting with the Celtics (Rondo) and great deal of expertise in statistical analysis which lead to his current GM job.

Bill Simmons was an intern, who gained popularity by mouthing off his opinion on sports, which he has no experience in.  His writing style is filled with amateur analysis to outright guessing often filled with "humorous" attacks on sports figures.  His main popularity is creating sports memes and writing "funny" sports articles which makes him as much of an expert on sports as the Onion is on everything. Read his articles posted on this thread on Doc Rivers for his credibility.  Hilarious that he attacked a former coach of the year and called for his head who immediately won the NBA championship head-to-head against Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant. 
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: LarBrd33 on June 28, 2013, 10:30:03 PM
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

The confusion stems from the fact that there was a lot of PR being played from the Celtics and Doc in case the Clippers thing didn't work out... so any "flip flopping" might give off the wrong impression, but really it was just Boston covering their bases and maintaining leverage in case things didn't work out with the Clippers.  Blaming Doc is stupid.  Boston is heading in a different direction that involves 3-5 years of lotto basketball.  We got an unprotected 1st rounder for Doc which is the biggest haul ever for a coach.  Nothing to see here... move on.  Simmons has a warped perception based on media manipulations and not reality. 

Neither Doc nor the Celtics can flat out come out and say "Hey... we're tanking this season.  We don't want to win games.  We're trading KG, Pierce... and probably Rondo so we can get building blocks for the future... we don't want to pay 8 million a year for a coach to babysit our children"... because it makes Boston look bad and the league really frowns on tankers... it hurts ticket sales and puts the league in a negative spot.  You gotta take that stuff into context.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Ogaju on June 28, 2013, 10:37:20 PM
Simmons knows and understands the game - not to the extent of guys who've worked or played in the league but he can hold his own talking the game with those guys.  He adds to it the fans perspective.  It's not an easy role to pull off but he's manged to do it.  Heck you have GMs like Darryl Morey and Ryan Mcdonough who I don't think even played college ball - why can't he do what he does?

Morey has degrees in statistics and MBA.  He's a pioneer of sports statistics serving as a chairman for the MIT Sports Analytics conference.  His specialization landed him a job as a consultant.  His success there lead to a front office job, where once again his success lead to a GM job where he once again has proven to be incredibly successful. 

Ryan McDonnough comes from a family deeply involved in sports analysis.  He also has a decade of incredibly successful scouting with the Celtics (Rondo) and great deal of expertise in statistical analysis which lead to his current GM job.

Bill Simmons was an intern, who gained popularity by mouthing off his opinion on sports, which he has no experience in.  His writing style is filled with amateur analysis to outright guessing often filled with "humorous" attacks on sports figures.  His main popularity is creating sports memes and writing "funny" sports articles which makes him as much of an expert on sports as the Onion is on everything. Read his articles posted on this thread on Doc Rivers for his credibility.  Hilarious that he attacked a former coach of the year and called for his head who immediately won the NBA championship head-to-head against Phil Jackson and Kobe Bryant.

Here we go with the Doc apologists. Lets bash Simmons and not keep the focus on Doc who failed to honor his own contract with the team.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: cltc5 on June 28, 2013, 10:45:09 PM
I like Bill simmons.  Always puts his neck out there for the C's and not ashamed of it.  Unlike someone I wont mention but his initial are D.O.C. ::)
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: ClipperFreaK on June 29, 2013, 12:08:48 AM
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

The confusion stems from the fact that there was a lot of PR being played from the Celtics and Doc in case the Clippers thing didn't work out... so any "flip flopping" might give off the wrong impression, but really it was just Boston covering their bases and maintaining leverage in case things didn't work out with the Clippers.  Blaming Doc is stupid.  Boston is heading in a different direction that involves 3-5 years of lotto basketball.  We got an unprotected 1st rounder for Doc which is the biggest haul ever for a coach.  Nothing to see here... move on.  Simmons has a warped perception based on media manipulations and not reality. 

Neither Doc nor the Celtics can flat out come out and say "Hey... we're tanking this season.  We don't want to win games.  We're trading KG, Pierce... and probably Rondo so we can get building blocks for the future... we don't want to pay 8 million a year for a coach to babysit our children"... because it makes Boston look bad and the league really frowns on tankers... it hurts ticket sales and puts the league in a negative spot.  You gotta take that stuff into context.
...
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: BballTim on June 29, 2013, 12:28:33 AM
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.

  I agree with this.

  As for Doc, and I'll admit I haven't followed what he said that closely, but did he actually say that he called Danny to say he was staying and Danny said no, you're going to the Clippers? Because that's shockingly unlikely.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: paidthecost2betheboss on June 29, 2013, 12:36:07 AM
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

You are absolutely wrong.

Quote
2006-07 Boston Celtics
In 2007, with Greg Oden and Kevin Durant as the big lottery prizes, several teams were openly questioned about apparent tanking, including the Boston Celtics, Milwaukee Bucks and Memphis Grizzlies, the three teams that ended up with the best chance of drafting Oden or Durant.

In one notorious game late in the season, the Celtics, playing at home, led the woeful Bobcats 69-51 late in the third quarter -- and managed to lose the game by eight points, enhancing their draft positioning. Of course, Celtics coach Doc Rivers denied tanking charges. As Steve Bulpett reported in the Boston Herald: “Rivers insisted there was nothing sinister about leaving Paul Pierce (game-high 23 points) on the bench for the fourth quarter and letting the quintet of Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Allan Ray and Leon Powe stay on the parquet as the lead -- still at 10 with nine minutes left in the game -- disappeared.”

In the final week of the season, the Celtics and Bucks, both maneuvering for the best possible draft position, played each other and gave DNPs to high scorers Paul Pierce, Al Jefferson, Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Redd and Mo Williams.

After the game, the Associated Press reported:
Ryan Gomes had 13 through three quarters, but watched from the bench in the fourth as Boston clinched the worst record in the Eastern Conference and second worst in the league.

"I probably (would have played), but since we were in the hunt for a high draft pick, of course things are different," Gomes said. "I understand that. Hopefully things get better. Now that we clinched at least having the second-most balls in the lottery, the last three games we'll see what happens. We'll see if we can go out and finish some games."

Doc didn't wanna tank   AGAIN...
Let's not remotely imply that it is somehow beneath Doc to do what he has already done before.

And Wyc stated that Doc came to them about the Clippers idea. He said that. Doc admitted today that a letter sent on May 8th stimulated by the Nets inquiry into Doc which stated THEY (Celtics) EXPECTED DOC TO HONOR HIS CONTRACT.....Doc just said today he doesn't doubt they sent it...he just never opened it...a letter....from the folks paying you 7 million while your staying silent about your future.....he didn't even open a letter from his boss?

The only thing more bizzare than the Doc fiasco is watching folks try to make it seem mutual which it wasn't. I doubt Wyc talks just for the joy of hearing his own voice.

Simmons said own it. I agree.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Yogi on June 29, 2013, 12:46:43 AM
What would you rather have?

Pay 7 mil a year for Doc to coach a team without KG and Pierce?

or

Have another coach for much less money, and an unprotected draft pick?

Of course this was mutual.  Why would the Celtics want Doc to coach a young team at 7M when they could get a cheaper coach and an extra first round pick?  Literally every one wins in this scenario except for confused fans who want to put their fear of change and sadness in losing a team we had grown close to one some scapegoat.  Doc, Danny, Wyk, Paul, KG, Billy King, Prokorov, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd everyone got exactly what they all wanted.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Kane3387 on June 29, 2013, 12:51:06 AM
At this point who cares. They both look pretty immature.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: BballTim on June 29, 2013, 01:11:44 AM
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

You are absolutely wrong.

Quote
2006-07 Boston Celtics
In 2007, with Greg Oden and Kevin Durant as the big lottery prizes, several teams were openly questioned about apparent tanking, including the Boston Celtics, Milwaukee Bucks and Memphis Grizzlies, the three teams that ended up with the best chance of drafting Oden or Durant.

In one notorious game late in the season, the Celtics, playing at home, led the woeful Bobcats 69-51 late in the third quarter -- and managed to lose the game by eight points, enhancing their draft positioning. Of course, Celtics coach Doc Rivers denied tanking charges. As Steve Bulpett reported in the Boston Herald: “Rivers insisted there was nothing sinister about leaving Paul Pierce (game-high 23 points) on the bench for the fourth quarter and letting the quintet of Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Allan Ray and Leon Powe stay on the parquet as the lead -- still at 10 with nine minutes left in the game -- disappeared.”

In the final week of the season, the Celtics and Bucks, both maneuvering for the best possible draft position, played each other and gave DNPs to high scorers Paul Pierce, Al Jefferson, Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Redd and Mo Williams.

After the game, the Associated Press reported:
Ryan Gomes had 13 through three quarters, but watched from the bench in the fourth as Boston clinched the worst record in the Eastern Conference and second worst in the league.

"I probably (would have played), but since we were in the hunt for a high draft pick, of course things are different," Gomes said. "I understand that. Hopefully things get better. Now that we clinched at least having the second-most balls in the lottery, the last three games we'll see what happens. We'll see if we can go out and finish some games."

Doc didn't wanna tank   AGAIN...
Let's not remotely imply that it is somehow beneath Doc to do what he has already done before.

And Wyc stated that Doc came to them about the Clippers idea. He said that. Doc admitted today that a letter sent on May 8th stimulated by the Nets inquiry into Doc which stated THEY (Celtics) EXPECTED DOC TO HONOR HIS CONTRACT.....Doc just said today he doesn't doubt they sent it...he just never opened it...a letter....from the folks paying you 7 million while your staying silent about your future.....he didn't even open a letter from his boss?

The only thing more bizzare than the Doc fiasco is watching folks try to make it seem mutual which it wasn't. I doubt Wyc talks just for the joy of hearing his own voice.

Simmons said own it. I agree.

  I wish people would stop bringing up that Gomes quote. The guy with the worst +/- on the team (by a decent margin) shouldn't be trying to tell everyone that the team lost because he didn't play enough. Whatever was wrong with the team wasn't getting better the more Gomes played, it was getting worse.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: syfy9 on June 29, 2013, 01:12:42 AM
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.

I strongly recommend you should. The one word I'd describe him with is "innovative", sometimes to a fault. Often to a fault, for some. He suggested in his book to add a 4/5 point half-court play once.

Either way, he's a good basketball mind who has seen and talked with many people. You can say that he's just an ordinary fan made famous, but he has more, better perspective than the general people.


The one thing I loved about his book was his take on the Hall of Fame. It was very intriguing - having it set up as a pyramid instead is brilliant.

He had a tier 4, tier 3, tier 2, and then a tier 1 (w/ a top 12 greatest thingy going on). He also had a separate section for notable role players that will be remembered for their work in basketball (Laimbeer, Horry, Fisher, etc).

Here's his top 96 - http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html)
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Mikedmx6 on June 29, 2013, 01:27:29 AM
Doc has flip flopped so bad in this situation and if you don't see that you're lying to yourself. I love when people keep saying would you rather pay 7 mil for a coach to rebuild or another coach for much less, I'm 99 percent sure its not our money paying him so who cares what he makes to coach the celtics. Doc claims he knew this trade was going to happen for weeks which tells me he took the easy way out and didnt want to rebuild. He called Danny and told him I'm staying and I'm giving it 110 percent whether we rebuilt or not. That's so bogus it's crazy it that were true when his agent called to mention the clippers deal he could've said no I already told Danny I'm giving 110 percent, and that's what I intend to do. So much for bleeding green doc. Kg n pierce bleed green now to, this stuff is all crap n they all gave up n quit on the celtics and ray started it all. It's BULL and as a diehard fan I see it differently.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: paidthecost2betheboss on June 29, 2013, 01:38:17 AM
What would you rather have?

Pay 7 mil a year for Doc to coach a team without KG and Pierce?

or

Have another coach for much less money, and an unprotected draft pick?

It's not my money bro. Apparently the folks writing the checks think different than you do. The nets owner is a billionaire and he inquired before the Clips and it caused ownership to deny them (and any package they coulda offered was clearly better if picks was the goal)The Celts sent a letter on May 8th that was apparently never opened according to Rivers which stated management expected him to honor his contract.

Quote
Of course this was mutual.  Why would the Celtics want Doc to coach a young team at 7M when they could get a cheaper coach and an extra first round pick?

Oh yeeeah...of course it was ??? Ignore Wyc and Danny and take Doc at his word ....which are the least consistent and make the least sense of the 3.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Ogaju on June 29, 2013, 01:57:26 AM
Celtics really expected Doc to honor his contract? Nooooooooo  lol
You guys do not understand employment contracts. The employer cannot expect anything from a contract. Ask them lol
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Yogi on June 29, 2013, 02:11:07 AM
What would you rather have?

Pay 7 mil a year for Doc to coach a team without KG and Pierce?

or

Have another coach for much less money, and an unprotected draft pick?

It's not my money bro. Apparently the folks writing the checks think different than you do. The nets owner is a billionaire and he inquired before the Clips and it caused ownership to deny them (and any package they coulda offered was clearly better if picks was the goal)The Celts sent a letter on May 8th that was apparently never opened according to Rivers which stated management expected him to honor his contract.

Quote
Of course this was mutual.  Why would the Celtics want Doc to coach a young team at 7M when they could get a cheaper coach and an extra first round pick?

Oh yeeeah...of course it was ??? Ignore Wyc and Danny and take Doc at his word ....which are the least consistent and make the least sense of the 3.

My dear beloved brother presumably from another mother,
Doc had no interest in coaching the Nets by his own admission.  You realize no one is going to give out picks if Doc is not going to coach for them right?

You need to go back and hear Wyc, Pags and Danny's interviews.  They wanted Doc to coach, but they would also be happy saving millions and have extra draft picks.  Just like they love KG, Paul and Terry but don't mind trading them to save money and gather draft picks.

I understand it's not your money.  The Celtics are not your team.  Doc Rivers is not your coach.  Paul and KG are not your players.  Is there a point to be made?  Because the fact that it is not your money is utterly irrelevant, self-evident and not the least bit interesting.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: paidthecost2betheboss on June 29, 2013, 02:18:42 AM
What would you rather have?

Pay 7 mil a year for Doc to coach a team without KG and Pierce?

or

Have another coach for much less money, and an unprotected draft pick?

It's not my money bro. Apparently the folks writing the checks think different than you do. The nets owner is a billionaire and he inquired before the Clips and it caused ownership to deny them (and any package they coulda offered was clearly better if picks was the goal)The Celts sent a letter on May 8th that was apparently never opened according to Rivers which stated management expected him to honor his contract.

Quote
Of course this was mutual.  Why would the Celtics want Doc to coach a young team at 7M when they could get a cheaper coach and an extra first round pick?

Oh yeeeah...of course it was ??? Ignore Wyc and Danny and take Doc at his word ....which are the least consistent and make the least sense of the 3.

My dear beloved brother presumably from another mother,
Doc had no interest in coaching the Nets by his own admission.  You realize no one is going to give out picks if Doc is not going to coach for them right?

You need to go back and hear Wyc, Pags and Danny's interviews.  They wanted Doc to coach, but they would also be happy saving millions and have extra draft picks.  Just like they love KG, Paul and Terry but don't mind trading them to save money and gather draft picks.

I understand it's not your money.  The Celtics are not your team.  Doc Rivers is not your coach.  Paul and KG are not your players.  Is there a point to be made?  Because the fact that it is not your money is utterly irrelevant, self-evident and not the least bit interesting.

Mommy loved the Fleetwood Mac albums a lot and cooked a mean spaghetti sauce that slowly simmered for hours till it tasted just right.

Brother?? Is that....you ???
If life has been well lets put our money in a pile and split it down the middle.....mother would have wanted it that way ;D

I'm honestly just happy to have lots of picks and watch the dust cloud from the detonations slowly drift away...with Doc ;)
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: steve on June 29, 2013, 02:25:19 AM
Here's what happened.

Doc: I'm not sure I'm down with a rebuild. 
Danny: Well, let me try to get something for you.
Doc: Ok.
Danny: Clippers trade seems good.  I can probably include KG as well.   
Doc: I'll do that!
Danny:  Clippers are playing hardball, it's not gonna happen. 
Doc:  [dang] it!  Ok, I guess I'll coach the C's next year because Lord knows I'm not giving up 20 mil. 
Danny: Ok sounds good....wait...the clips agree on the deal! 
Doc: Great!  But hold on while I act like I didn't initiate this trade in order to safe face with the public.  Danny, people think you're a snake already do you mind if I insinuate that you blindsided me?

   
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: timobusa on June 29, 2013, 02:28:52 AM
Here's what happened.

Doc: I'm not sure I'm down with a rebuild. 
Danny: Well, let me try to get something for you.
Doc: Ok.
Danny: Clippers trade seems good.  I can probably include KG as well.   
Doc: I'll do that!
Danny:  Clippers are playing hardball, it's not gonna happen. 
Doc:  [dang] it!  Ok, I guess I'll coach the C's next year because Lord knows I'm not giving up 20 mil. 
Danny: Ok sounds good....wait...the clips agree on the deal! 
Doc: Great!  But hold on while I act like I didn't initiate this trade in order to safe face with the public.  Danny, people think you're a snake already do you mind if I insinuate that you blindsided me?

 

I bet you this is not far from the truth.

TP
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: ThaPreacher on June 29, 2013, 04:18:06 AM
I haven't read Bill Simmons book.  From everything I've heard from him and watched on TV, he knows very little about anything.  He is like a less intelligent Mike Felger or a more charismatic Skip Bayless.

Simmons is extremely intelligent when it comes to basketball. Let's not disqualify him because he didn't play professional basketball. Fuel gar and intelligence is an oxymoron.  Completely incongruous.
I do think his earlier articles on Doc were over the top-though they did express the mob mentality of the fans at the time. I think Simmons is right on this one. 
Doc should accept responsibility.  He quit on the Celtics. He felt it was time to move on.
Boston fans should be more sympathetic.  Why can't a coach have mixed feelings?
By all accounts-Doc is a good guy.

Shake Hands.




Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Lebowski on June 29, 2013, 07:28:36 AM
This has just become a public spat to prove that the other guy is the more disingenuous. They should both just step away from it. It serves no real purpose and neither of them comes across well in all this.

I'm getting fed up with all this public airing of the Cs dirty laundry. Just let us focus on the rebuild!
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Eja117 on June 29, 2013, 07:54:52 AM
What it comes down to is that you can trust Simmons to call it like he sees it, ask inconvenient questions, and give his honest opinion. When it comes to doc and to a certain extent DA and the Celtics front office and all the "sources" in the papers you don't know what to trust. So to me I see a guy who was under contract, who publicly started questioning his role and future here and was suddenly not here. I call that quitting. Maybe even mutual quitting, but still quitting, no matter how much his son Jeremiah cries a Rivers. That's not my problem or Bill Simmons problem. It's doc's. Because he is a quitter. Now I have to wonder if the reason he didn't beat up rondo is because he quit mid fight.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: coco on June 29, 2013, 08:02:00 AM
I like Bill Simmons.  Brings topics ex-players won't talk about.  And does it with humor.  Way better panel than TNTs.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 29, 2013, 09:20:49 AM
Bill isn't a ra ra league puppet like some of the other hacks they have.   He asks tough questions and is sometimes blunt and rubs some the wrong way but to me, it is refreshing in this day where people are fawning all the time.   I wish we had guys like him in political news.   He is a dying breed, a journalist not a propagandist.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: paidthecost2betheboss on June 29, 2013, 09:32:26 AM
Bill isn't a ra ra league puppet like some of the other hacks they have.   He asks tough questions and is sometimes blunt and rubs some the wrong way but to me, it is refreshing in this day where people are fawning all the time.   I wish we had guys like him in political news.   He is a dying breed, a journalist not a propagandist.

I only knew of him from a series he wrote about the 2004 Red Sox and the comeback against the Yanks. I was reading it at the time and can't remember who he wrote for or if he had a blog? I was laughing my ....off a lot. Next thing I know years later and he was writing about the ....Clips? He moved to Cali or something?
Ironic that the Clips and Celts were in this drama.

I'm am quite happy that Doc chose him to insult on T.V. in a classic passive aggressive manner. The irony of that specific moment.....is wicked.
He seems like the guy who will write a very good book that will detail with wit the animosity and anger he feels as a fan and a person who just feels like they are being lied to.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: timobusa on June 29, 2013, 10:00:22 AM
That awkward moment when you realize that Bill Simmons is a Clippers Season Ticket holder.

Should be a fun year in LA LA land.

I'm 100% behind Bill.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: wiley on June 29, 2013, 11:12:13 AM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: MBunge on June 29, 2013, 11:25:53 AM
He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.

Even if that were true, it would be a fine counterpoint to the endless slurping the national media give out.  Someone needs to point out when the emperor has not clothes.

Mike
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Eja117 on June 29, 2013, 11:34:53 AM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 29, 2013, 11:35:37 AM
I think I like Bill Simmons.

I think he is right. Point is, Doc signed a lengthy contract  knowing that at some point rebuilding is in the store, and then he decided to leave when it happened.

Now I don't know the truth of course, just piecing logic and information I have heard but to me, but if Doc never really "quit" on the team, then why did he not even try to fight for the Celtics coaching job? That's just me, I believe Bill and I admire his guts to say it like it is on National TV.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: paidthecost2betheboss on June 29, 2013, 11:44:34 AM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.

Ya know...ya put that in quotes so i looked at every post in this thread and found the words "Honest" and "opinion" next to each other but not what you quoted?

Can ya give me back my 10 minutes and can you actualy use the quote function instead of making stuff up while defending a guy ...who...ironically....seemed to make a lot of stuff up.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 29, 2013, 12:21:38 PM
Quote
basic respect for athletes.

Last time I checked they put they their pants the same way I do one leg at a time.   I think there is too much respect with athletes.   I think it is nice to not have someone who worship them ask them some questions.

I don't have problem with Simmons or Doc, right now.

Simmons is a fan and the fan came out.   If this was a lot of you, you instantly go into butt kiss mode and not ask the hard question.   
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: wiley on June 29, 2013, 12:30:39 PM
Quote
basic respect for athletes.

Last time I checked they put they their pants the same way I do one leg at a time.   I think there is too much respect with athletes.   I think it is nice to not have someone who worship them ask them some questions.

I don't have problem with Simmons or Doc, right now.

Simmons is a fan and the fan came out.   If this was a lot of you, you instantly go into butt kiss mode and not ask the hard question.

It's not the biggest deal in the world.  I just personally can't get behind a guy who's never played basketball and then when Mason Plumlee gets picked, who Bilas had ranked 13 in talent, he says:  "So is he a rich man's Greg Stiemsa, a poor man's Greg Steimsa, or Greg Steimsa?  Okay Shane over to you for the player interview....

Not saying Mason will be good, but can Steimsma jump like Mason.  Are they in any way similar?

It's just not a style I dig.  He insults both Greg and Mason for a much too easy laugh. 


Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: nostar on June 29, 2013, 12:31:51 PM
You know I didn't really mean this thread as a Doc bashing platform. There are already a few Doc threads for all that animosity. I was more trying to say that I appreciate what Simmons did in the draft and what he's done all year.

Watching the draft, and the subsequent season of Bill on ESPN/ABC makes me sort of glad he's on TV. I like his humor, instigating though it my be. I like his creative ideas about trades and his candor in talking about players, coaches and their surround situations. I also think he's one of the few pundits that loudly proclaims his own mistakes. That is what I meant by this thread, not do bash Doc but to laud Bill on being a fan's pundit instead of just saying "wow Magic you're so right I worship you" or just talking about Lebron James 24/7 as most do.

Personally I'm glad Doc got mad. Now he knows how some of us felt when he jumped ship. But I'm even more glad that Simmons said what a lot of Celtic's fans were thinking. It's just nice to hear that stuff on TV here and there.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: wiley on June 29, 2013, 12:33:15 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.

Ya know...ya put that in quotes so i looked at every post in this thread and found the words "Honest" and "opinion" next to each other but not what you quoted?

Can ya give me back my 10 minutes and can you actualy use the quote function instead of making stuff up while defending a guy ...who...ironically....seemed to make a lot of stuff up.

Sorry.  Thought a bunch of people were praising him for speaking his mind, telling it like it is, and the like.  I know I read honest once, a basic synonym for the rest...

But you win.  I have no right to wish others didn't enjoy his humor style.  Enjoy.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: wiley on June 29, 2013, 12:47:06 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.

Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: elcotte on June 29, 2013, 12:54:12 PM
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

The confusion stems from the fact that there was a lot of PR being played from the Celtics and Doc in case the Clippers thing didn't work out... so any "flip flopping" might give off the wrong impression, but really it was just Boston covering their bases and maintaining leverage in case things didn't work out with the Clippers.  Blaming Doc is stupid.  Boston is heading in a different direction that involves 3-5 years of lotto basketball.  We got an unprotected 1st rounder for Doc which is the biggest haul ever for a coach.  Nothing to see here... move on.  Simmons has a warped perception based on media manipulations and not reality. 

Neither Doc nor the Celtics can flat out come out and say "Hey... we're tanking this season.  We don't want to win games.  We're trading KG, Pierce... and probably Rondo so we can get building blocks for the future... we don't want to pay 8 million a year for a coach to babysit our children"... because it makes Boston look bad and the league really frowns on tankers... it hurts ticket sales and puts the league in a negative spot.  You gotta take that stuff into context.

I agree with you.
I think Simmons is way out of line on this....He's acting like Bill O'reilly.
The C's could have held him to the terms of the contract but decided not to. That should be good enough for Simmons. End of story.
I think he needs to stop being a blow hard....There's no reason to make a big deal out of this.
The draft pick is more valuable than Doc coaching a young, inexperienced team.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: wiley on June 29, 2013, 01:06:53 PM
He's not right about Doc.  It was a mutual decision between the Celtics and Doc.  The Celtics want to tank and don't want to pay 8 million a year for a babysitter.  Doc didn't want to babysit a team that is trying to lose games.   

The confusion stems from the fact that there was a lot of PR being played from the Celtics and Doc in case the Clippers thing didn't work out... so any "flip flopping" might give off the wrong impression, but really it was just Boston covering their bases and maintaining leverage in case things didn't work out with the Clippers.  Blaming Doc is stupid.  Boston is heading in a different direction that involves 3-5 years of lotto basketball.  We got an unprotected 1st rounder for Doc which is the biggest haul ever for a coach.  Nothing to see here... move on.  Simmons has a warped perception based on media manipulations and not reality. 

Neither Doc nor the Celtics can flat out come out and say "Hey... we're tanking this season.  We don't want to win games.  We're trading KG, Pierce... and probably Rondo so we can get building blocks for the future... we don't want to pay 8 million a year for a coach to babysit our children"... because it makes Boston look bad and the league really frowns on tankers... it hurts ticket sales and puts the league in a negative spot.  You gotta take that stuff into context.

I agree with you.
I think Simmons is way out of line on this....He's acting like Bill O'reilly.
The C's could have held him to the terms of the contract but decided not to. That should be good enough for Simmons. End of story.
I think he needs to stop being a blow hard....There's no reason to make a big deal out of this.
The draft pick is more valuable than Doc coaching a young, inexperienced team.

Yes.  LarBrd33 stated it perfectly.  it's all PR.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Eja117 on June 29, 2013, 01:09:44 PM
Quote
basic respect for athletes.

Last time I checked they put they their pants the same way I do one leg at a time.   I think there is too much respect with hathletes.   I think it is nice to not have someone who worship them ask them some questions.

I don't have problem with Simmons or Doc, right now.

Simmons is a fan and the fan came out.   If this was a lot of you, you instantly go into butt kiss mode and not ask the hard question.

It's not the biggest deal in the world.  I just personally can't get behind a guy who's never played basketball and then when Mason Plumlee gets picked, who Bilas had ranked 13 in talent, he says:  "So is he a rich man's Greg Stiemsa, a poor man's Greg Steimsa, or Greg Steimsa?  Okay Shane over to you for the player interview....

Not saying Mason will be good, but can Steimsma jump like Mason.  Are they in any way similar?

It's just not a style I dig.  He insults both Greg and Mason for a much too easy laugh.
to be fair Bill is in no way the only guy that says negative things about prospects on draft night.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: syfy9 on June 29, 2013, 01:13:51 PM
What it comes down to is that you can trust Simmons to call it like he sees it, ask inconvenient questions, and give his honest opinion. When it comes to doc and to a certain extent DA and the Celtics front office and all the "sources" in the papers you don't know what to trust. So to me I see a guy who was under contract, who publicly started questioning his role and future here and was suddenly not here. I call that quitting. Maybe even mutual quitting, but still quitting, no matter how much his son Jeremiah cries a Rivers. That's not my problem or Bill Simmons problem. It's doc's. Because he is a quitter. Now I have to wonder if the reason he didn't beat up rondo is because he quit mid fight.
(http://i.qkme.me/3rpqih.jpg)
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Finkelskyhook on June 29, 2013, 01:16:23 PM
Bottom line is Rivers did us a favor.  Whether he quit or not.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Eja117 on June 29, 2013, 01:18:29 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.
when a guy has a huge contract that he signed knowing there'd be a rebuild and then started wondering "what should I do" LeBron style? Noooooo I'd say it's pretty necessary to call him a quitter. 
Now traditionally this is the point where I make an analogy to calling Aaron Hernandez what he actually is and then someone says I'm comparing doc to Hernandez. Just call things what they are no matter who or what they are
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: cltc5 on June 29, 2013, 01:19:39 PM
Why do people even care that Doc left.  Good riddance.  Will be the best thing for the C's moving forward.  At least we dont have to watch gerald wallace iso's every game to end the game :P
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: wiley on June 29, 2013, 01:23:18 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.
when a guy has a huge contract that he signed knowing there'd be a rebuild and then started wondering "what should I do" LeBron style? Noooooo I'd say it's pretty necessary to call him a quitter. 
Now traditionally this is the point where I make an analogy to calling Aaron Hernandez what he actually is and then someone says I'm comparing doc to Hernandez. Just call things what they are no matter who or what they are

Aren't some huge percentage of contracts somewhat wink wink.  I mean their length allows teams to avoid having to constantly re-negotiate.  I think there's often an understaning that burnout is a real phenomena and players stop listening and coaches get fed up, etc etc etc  Things are always in flux

When did an NBA contract become something so Godfatherish?
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Eja117 on June 29, 2013, 01:28:36 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.
when a guy has a huge contract that he signed knowing there'd be a rebuild and then started wondering "what should I do" LeBron style? Noooooo I'd say it's pretty necessary to call him a quitter. 
Now traditionally this is the point where I make an analogy to calling Aaron Hernandez what he actually is and then someone says I'm comparing doc to Hernandez. Just call things what they are no matter who or what they are

Aren't some huge percentage of contracts somewhat wink wink.  I mean their length allows teams to avoid having to constantly re-negotiate.  I think there's often an understaning that burnout is a real phenomena and players stop listening and coaches get fed up, etc etc etc  Things are always in flux

When did an NBA contract become something so Godfatherish?
then just admit you quit the Celtics and went to greener pastures. What is so hard about that? Stop calling Simmons an idiot and telling us not to believe our own eyes
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: wiley on June 29, 2013, 01:32:58 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.
when a guy has a huge contract that he signed knowing there'd be a rebuild and then started wondering "what should I do" LeBron style? Noooooo I'd say it's pretty necessary to call him a quitter. 
Now traditionally this is the point where I make an analogy to calling Aaron Hernandez what he actually is and then someone says I'm comparing doc to Hernandez. Just call things what they are no matter who or what they are

Aren't some huge percentage of contracts somewhat wink wink.  I mean their length allows teams to avoid having to constantly re-negotiate.  I think there's often an understaning that burnout is a real phenomena and players stop listening and coaches get fed up, etc etc etc  Things are always in flux

When did an NBA contract become something so Godfatherish?
then just admit you quit the Celtics and went to greener pastures. What is so hard about that? Stop calling Simmons an idiot and telling us not to believe our own eyes

He did that when he said he couldn't see himself doing another rebuild, and when he said he benefitted from what was finally worked out.  Keep in mind when this started he saw himself coaching KG and PP with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin.  He'd have been a big time idiot not to say yes to that while Danny dives for Wiggins....
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Eja117 on June 29, 2013, 01:36:03 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.
when a guy has a huge contract that he signed knowing there'd be a rebuild and then started wondering "what should I do" LeBron style? Noooooo I'd say it's pretty necessary to call him a quitter. 
Now traditionally this is the point where I make an analogy to calling Aaron Hernandez what he actually is and then someone says I'm comparing doc to Hernandez. Just call things what they are no matter who or what they are

Aren't some huge percentage of contracts somewhat wink wink.  I mean their length allows teams to avoid having to constantly re-negotiate.  I think there's often an understaning that burnout is a real phenomena and players stop listening and coaches get fed up, etc etc etc  Things are always in flux

When did an NBA contract become something so Godfatherish?
then just admit you quit the Celtics and went to greener pastures. What is so hard about that? Stop calling Simmons an idiot and telling us not to believe our own eyes

He did that when he said he couldn't see himself doing another rebuild, and when he said he benefitted from what was finally worked out.  Keep in mind when this started he saw himself coaching KG and PP with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin.  He'd have been a big time idiot not to say yes to that while Danny dives for Wiggins....
then he needs to say "Bill Simmons is right and I was wrong"
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: wiley on June 29, 2013, 01:46:59 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.
when a guy has a huge contract that he signed knowing there'd be a rebuild and then started wondering "what should I do" LeBron style? Noooooo I'd say it's pretty necessary to call him a quitter. 
Now traditionally this is the point where I make an analogy to calling Aaron Hernandez what he actually is and then someone says I'm comparing doc to Hernandez. Just call things what they are no matter who or what they are

Aren't some huge percentage of contracts somewhat wink wink.  I mean their length allows teams to avoid having to constantly re-negotiate.  I think there's often an understaning that burnout is a real phenomena and players stop listening and coaches get fed up, etc etc etc  Things are always in flux

When did an NBA contract become something so Godfatherish?
then just admit you quit the Celtics and went to greener pastures. What is so hard about that? Stop calling Simmons an idiot and telling us not to believe our own eyes

He did that when he said he couldn't see himself doing another rebuild, and when he said he benefitted from what was finally worked out.  Keep in mind when this started he saw himself coaching KG and PP with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin.  He'd have been a big time idiot not to say yes to that while Danny dives for Wiggins....
then he needs to say "Bill Simmons is right and I was wrong"

That's silly.  Do you hand out cookies to people who have spent most of their adulthood bashing you?

....still think we disagree on what qualifies as quitting verses leaving.  Let's agree then on the Dallas megadeal over there in the other thread :o
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Eja117 on June 29, 2013, 01:54:42 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.
when a guy has a huge contract that he signed knowing there'd be a rebuild and then started wondering "what should I do" LeBron style? Noooooo I'd say it's pretty necessary to call him a quitter. 
Now traditionally this is the point where I make an analogy to calling Aaron Hernandez what he actually is and then someone says I'm comparing doc to Hernandez. Just call things what they are no matter who or what they are

Aren't some huge percentage of contracts somewhat wink wink.  I mean their length allows teams to avoid having to constantly re-negotiate.  I think there's often an understaning that burnout is a real phenomena and players stop listening and coaches get fed up, etc etc etc  Things are always in flux

When did an NBA contract become something so Godfatherish?
then just admit you quit the Celtics and went to greener pastures. What is so hard about that? Stop calling Simmons an idiot and telling us not to believe our own eyes

He did that when he said he couldn't see himself doing another rebuild, and when he said he benefitted from what was finally worked out.  Keep in mind when this started he saw himself coaching KG and PP with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin.  He'd have been a big time idiot not to say yes to that while Danny dives for Wiggins....
then he needs to say "Bill Simmons is right and I was wrong"
:

That's silly.  Do you hand out cookies to people who have spent most of their adulthood bashing you?

....still think we disagree on what qualifies as quitting verses leaving.  Let's agree then on the Dallas megadeal over there in the other thread :o
there's a Dallas mega deal? I'll be right there
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: ThaPreacher on June 29, 2013, 02:06:56 PM
Can't believe so many of you have fallen for Bill this broadcast is all about me Simmons.

Not saying the rest of the panel was good.  They could do a lot better.

The whole "but he's so honest" line I find laughable.  He's an instigator
who lacks basic respect for athletes.
doc didn't instigate anything? All that wondering out loud didn't force any hands? All those anonymous sources close to the Celtics who kept popping up had nothing to do with doc? Not only did doc quit, but he was sneaky about it. I'm shocked shocked to hear someone call me a quitter! Here's your new clippers contract. Oh. Thank you very much.  Doc is a sneaky quitter, who willingly left the Celtics and wants it both ways. Doesn't want to be here for rebuilding and doesn't want to be called a quitter. We that's just too bad. Cry me a Rivers.

A good situation arose, which Doc admitted.  If it hadn't, Doc might have joined the broadcast booth.  Or, as it seemed right at the end, returned to the Celtics, which was his last ACTUAL decision before the deal worked out and the Celtics got the pick.

So, Doc left.  I don't think he shocked the Celtics in any way.  So, my question is why does someone need to be called a quitter.  Why does the phrase "quit on" need to be used.  Isn't that just a phrase to excite fans and boost media ratings, stir up controversy, etc..?   Especially when it comes form the mouth of a major Doc basher historically?

Why do we jump to yes yes he's a quitter.  Do people really feel victimized?  Are we so in love with labels?   

Quitting on is a strong condemnation of someone.  There needs to be no mutuality
for it to apply.  And that's not the case here.


QLD

QUIT
Like
Doc
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: Ogaju on June 29, 2013, 02:17:28 PM
LOL at Doc apologists.

Don't you love it when he tried to claim the upper ground after calling Simmons an idiot. Well we know Simmons is not an idiot so Doc was wrong when he called him one.

We do however know that Doc is a quitter because he quit on his contract with the Celtics. He definitely did not stay to fight.

Doc quit every year after the playoffs to think about whether his quit would be temporary or permanent. Well the quit finally became permanent this year.

Own it Doc, you quit.
Title: Re: Bill Simmons
Post by: paidthecost2betheboss on June 29, 2013, 11:46:37 PM
LOL at Doc apologists.

Don't you love it when he tried to claim the upper ground after calling Simmons an idiot. Well we know Simmons is not an idiot so Doc was wrong when he called him one.

We do however know that Doc is a quitter because he quit on his contract with the Celtics. He definitely did not stay to fight.

Doc quit every year after the playoffs to think about whether his quit would be temporary or permanent. Well the quit finally became permanent this year.

Own it Doc, you quit.

This is all "noise".

Timeline starts.
(You can pick right after the Knick's loss or right after the Nets overture...take your pick)

I'm not interested in anyone's including Simmons "opinions"

Follow the timeline. The letter which refutes Doc's claim was sent May 8th. Doc can set that aside by saying what he did which was he doesn't doubt he got the letter he just never opened it.

So You have a guy going through his year end Hamlet spiel and right after receiving overtures from the Nets your boss sends you a letter. Why not call? Why not meet? (Communication breakdown for folks in a close relationship??...but I clearly digress)..anyway so the letter with very clear business terms stating Doc was expected to fulfill his contract  goes unopened.

That is very odd hard to believe and supremely convenient for a person who's narrative jumps to a meeting with Ainge that is happening in the midsts of the Clippers offer. If you didn't know any better you'd think it was before.



I could care less about Simmons. I do care that we are one of 2 teams in the entire NBA WITHOUT A COACH.
I don't even care about quitting.....I think he lied and manipulated my favorite team into a bad position at a bad time and that infuriates me.