CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: sed522002 on June 28, 2013, 08:29:25 AM
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I don't know if any of you caught the little sparring of words between Doc and Bill, but here's the summary:
Bill said Doc quit on the C's. An ESPN broadcaster was talking to Doc about the Clippers and mentioned Bill's comment and Doc responds "I would call him an idiot, but I'm too classy." Then Bill goes on his tangent after hearing Doc.
Jeremiah didn't take to kindly:
@BillSimmons @espn My father has never quit anything in his life. He now has an NBA Championship, and helped in rejuvenating the Celtics.
@BillSimmons @espn That’s why he is 3rd winningest coach in Celtics history. Those are just credentials, but you already know this.
@BillSimmons @espn Your the same guy who was trying to run my dad out of town when it seemed like the Celtics were down and out.
@BillSimmons @espn Then you praised him like GOD himself when he helped turn things around. Where is your loyalty.
@BillSimmons @espn You know nothing about winning, about sacrifice, and being a champion. You sit behind a desk and pick on people.
@BillSimmons @espn .You are a Internet bully. There is a reason nobody will side with you. They like my dad better than you.
@BillSimmons @espn Magic, Wilbon, Shaq, Ernie, etc… They know my father and they know about being a professional at the highest LEVEL.
@BillSimmons @espn If you don’t have all the facts, which you clearly DON’T, I suggest you sit down and shut up. Good day sir.
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Meh, I think Bill is right. I don't know how you can spin it any other way.
Whether he was just saying the company line or not, Doc said words to the effect that he was willing to go through a rebuild and that he wanted to stick around on the Celtics like other long-tenured coaches (Sloan, Popovich).
Then he left town and admitted that he is only interested in coaching if he has a chance to win a title.
That sure sounds like jumping ship as soon as the waters get rough -- i.e. quitting.
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Meh, I think Bill is right. I don't know how you can spin it any other way.
Whether he was just saying the company line or not, Doc said words to the effect that he was willing to go through a rebuild and that he wanted to stick around on the Celtics like other long-tenured coaches (Sloan, Popovich).
Then he left town and admitted that he is only interested in coaching if he has a chance to win a title.
That sure sounds like jumping ship as soon as the waters get rough -- i.e. quitting.
Yep..and Jeremiah better be glad that Doc is SOOO well liked by the media because if it was another coach they'd be ripping him right now.
Doc knew Danny was going to trade KG and PP and didn't want to have any part of that.
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I don't know if any of you caught the little sparring of words between Doc and Bill, but here's the summary:
Bill said Doc quit on the C's. An ESPN broadcaster was talking to Doc about the Clippers and mentioned Bill's comment and Doc responds "I would call him an idiot, but I'm too classy." Then Bill goes on his tangent after hearing Doc.
Jeremiah didn't take to kindly:
@BillSimmons @espn My father has never quit anything in his life. He now has an NBA Championship, and helped in rejuvenating the Celtics.
@BillSimmons @espn That’s why he is 3rd winningest coach in Celtics history. Those are just credentials, but you already know this.
@BillSimmons @espn Your the same guy who was trying to run my dad out of town when it seemed like the Celtics were down and out.
@BillSimmons @espn Then you praised him like GOD himself when he helped turn things around. Where is your loyalty.
@BillSimmons @espn You know nothing about winning, about sacrifice, and being a champion. You sit behind a desk and pick on people.
@BillSimmons @espn .You are a Internet bully. There is a reason nobody will side with you. They like my dad better than you.
@BillSimmons @espn Magic, Wilbon, Shaq, Ernie, etc… They know my father and they know about being a professional at the highest LEVEL.
@BillSimmons @espn If you don’t have all the facts, which you clearly DON’T, I suggest you sit down and shut up. Good day sir.
ole jeremiah is definitely butthurt. truth hurts kid.
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I know Jeremiah Rivers is just standing up for his dad, but I think it would be funny if Simmons battled back. Because really who is Jeremiah Rivers? The guy who quit Georgetown? The unsuccessful son/brother of Doc and Austin? And what exactly does Jeremiah know about winning? And since he clearly he has all the facts, why don't you tell us all the fact's we're missing?
Not that I think Simmons would have a flame war with the guy, but it would be interesting.
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Yeah I mean you can sugar coat it but doc did quit on the Cs.
You can be mad at him, agree with him, think he's right or wrong but it appears to be pretty factual.
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Good for Jeremiah Rivers.'
I know Doc quit on the Celtics, but I don't like how TV commentators, by they sports, politics or otherwise, can basically make accusations without any repercussions.
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Meh, I think Bill is right. I don't know how you can spin it any other way.
Whether he was just saying the company line or not, Doc said words to the effect that he was willing to go through a rebuild and that he wanted to stick around on the Celtics like other long-tenured coaches (Sloan, Popovich).
Then he left town and admitted that he is only interested in coaching if he has a chance to win a title.
That sure sounds like jumping ship as soon as the waters get rough -- i.e. quitting.
Yep..and Jeremiah better be glad that Doc is SOOO well liked by the media because if it was another coach they'd be ripping him right now.
Doc knew Danny was going to trade KG and PP and didn't want to have any part of that.
quitter in my books...I may sound like a hypocrite but I am treating this differently with the KG/PP trade.
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Good for Jeremiah Rivers.'
I know Doc quit on the Celtics, but I don't like how TV commentators, by they sports, politics or otherwise, can basically make accusations without any repercussions.
I agree with this.
I also agree with Simmons.
A dialog is only a dialog if both parties are talking.
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Jeremiah is also blatantly lying. Bill Simmons never praised Doc like God; he has been nothing but critical of Doc for most of his Celtics tenure. He has said multiple times on his podcast that he didn't think Doc became a decent coach until 2010, and that before that he was a poor coach.
Jeremiah is just an idiot.
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@BillSimmons 1m
When I get home I'm signing up my 5 and a half year old son for Twitter so he can defend me against Doc Rivers' kids.
;D
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Bill Simmons ruined draft night. He's a tool that forces others to laugh at his jokes to avoid discomfort. He's the next version of the bald guy (jim gray?) who confronted Pete Rose accept more aggressive and less passive aggressive. He can't make a joke without blatantly offending someone.
ESPN draft intro and theme does this silly music with Magic Johnson voiceover talking about stardom...I found it condescending to the athletes cheesy marketing (not Magic's fault).
But it was better than Bill Simmons, who does the complete opposite and completely mocks Mason Plumlee before his Battier interview on what is in fact a special moment for these players.
Give me a real humorist next year ESPN. He ruined the draft for me with a re-hashed and co-opted humor style that falls apart without cutting people up. Bill Simmons is B.S.
Also If you think the Celtic brass wanted to keep Doc and his salary for the rebuild, then you're fooling yourselves...
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Yeah, Simmons is a punk but he was right.
And the entire Rivers family combined is unarmed for a battle of wits against Simmons.
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Yeah, Simmons is a punk but he was right.
And the entire Rivers family combined is unarmed for a battle of wits against Simmons.
It seems the entire Rivers family felt they were making a collective sacrifice every year when he decided to return to the team. Which is hilarious.
I loved Doc's tenure, but this is one aspect of it I'm not going to miss.
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Definitely with Simmons here. Rivers going way overboard with that twittisphere stuff to grab attention. Desperate.
Also, Simmons was great on draft night. He saved what would have a terribly unentertaining evening.
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Yeah, Simmons is a punk but he was right.
And the entire Rivers family combined is unarmed for a battle of wits against Simmons.
It seems the entire Rivers family felt they were making a collective sacrifice every year when he decided to return to the team. Which is hilarious.
I loved Doc's tenure, but this is one aspect of it I'm not going to miss.
Amen!
So true. Hilarious Doc said he wasn't going to come back after they lost to the Knicks, then he was going to, then maybe another offer intrigued him, but also he didn't push for it.
hahah oh boy.
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I haven't had a problem with Rivers leaving. But, after watching this dude stutter and stammer, change stories and then watch his dumbass kids(and the whole family0 act like he's Vince Lombardi, I'm not going to be sad when he fails in LA.
Bill Simmons is the only one man enough to call Doc out. The rest of the media is so blinded by Doc's con man act they just stay quiet.
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@BillSimmons @espn My father has never quit anything in his life. He now has an NBA Championship, and helped in rejuvenating the Celtics.
Definition:
quit
v. quit or quit·ted (kwtd), quit·ting, quits
1. To depart from; leave:
2. To leave the company of:
3. To give up; relinquish: quit a job.
4. To abandon or put aside; forsake:
He kinda did jeremy jerry ..whatever....he technically by it's definition did quit.
ANd Mr Wyc paid Daddy a lot and gave him 3 Hall of Famers to help get Daddy that ring.
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Simmons talked like a fan, and that's right with me. We know Doc and Danny agreed to part ways in the best possible way, but as fans, we don't have to say amen.
As a broadcaster, though, Simmons didn't do the right thing, but he added some drama to that boring ESPN show. No big deal.
I find hilarious Doc's son is going off on Simmons... when you take decisions, you're going to p--- off people. Deal with it.
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I'm not a fan of Simmons at all, but I totally side with him here. Doc didn't want to rebuild and he just needs to own it.
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I know Jeremiah Rivers is just standing up for his dad, but I think it would be funny if Simmons battled back. Because really who is Jeremiah Rivers? The guy who quit Georgetown? The unsuccessful son/brother of Doc and Austin? And what exactly does Jeremiah know about winning? And since he clearly he has all the facts, why don't you tell us all the fact's we're missing?
Not that I think Simmons would have a flame war with the guy, but it would be interesting.
Bill replied back..lol
Bill Simmons @BillSimmons 50m
When I get home I'm signing up my 5 and a half year old son for Twitter so he can defend me against Doc Rivers' kids.
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The thing with me is, the kids had things to say when Ray left for Miami. Different circumstances, but the same outcome. Everyone isn't going to agree with the move. And unless Doc wins it all or takes them to the WCF..the spotlight and criticism will be on him because LAC have pronounced him the coaches of all coaches.
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Bill is right, and doc looks like a buffoon for calling himself too classy to call him an idiot...Uhh wait you just did call him one while weirdly calling yourself classy...you're a clown and a quitter
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Bill is right, and doc looks like a buffoon for calling himself too classy to call him an idiot...Uhh wait you just did call him one while weirdly calling yourself classy...you're a clown and a quitter
Yeah that's a weak move.
Just representative of Doc on this whole issue. Saying one thing and doing another. Contradicting yourself within the same sentences.
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The problem I have with defending Simmons is that he just doesn't know the real story. No one does.
You guys are falling for much more skilled version of Felger.
Doc surely wanted to coach KG, Pierce, Rondo, Green and Sully through another year of contention. In the end he AGREED to come back and coach regardless of a blowup. But the thing had gone too far. Doc love KG to death. His initial acceptance of the deal involved two more year of coaching KG and very likely Pierce in a contending situation.
And when the deal fell apart he agreed to come back, but it was too late.
No one knows for sure the signals Doc got from the brass. The story is the Celtics didn't want to spend that much on a coach during a rebuild.
I don't get the Doc crucifixion at all.
Or the Simmons love. Simmons will end in the dust heap of television losers. Doc will come out strong and thriving....
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The problem I have with defending Simmons is that he just doesn't know the real story. No one does.
You guys are falling for much more skilled version of Felger.
Doc surely wanted to coach KG, Pierce, Rondo, Green and Sully through another year of contention. In the end he AGREED to come back and coach regardless of a blowup. But the thing had gone too far. Doc love KG to death. His initial acceptance of the deal involved two more year of coaching KG and very likely Pierce in a contending situation.
And when the deal fell apart he agreed to come back, but it was too late.
No one knows for sure the signals Doc got from the brass. The story is the Celtics didn't want to spend that much on a coach during a rebuild.
I don't get the Doc crucifixion at all.
Or the Simmons love. Simmons will end in the dust heap of television losers. Doc will come out strong and thriving....
(http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y422/Paidthecost2betheboss/images7_zpsb5daed05.png)
Holy Crap man. Put the cup down. Is this Jeremiah?
Did you see Wyc's presser or Danny's
You really think they were trying to cut Doc to save money and what exactly is "too late" unless it's a "leaked" story...whoops...that is actually a 2 year old event?
Your saying folks are going over board while diving in backwards yourself. ::)
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Simmons has some really hacky opinions but he makes the television 100x more interesting.
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I haven't had a problem with Rivers leaving. But, after watching this dude stutter and stammer, change stories and then watch his dumbass kids(and the whole family0 act like he's Vince Lombardi, I'm not going to be sad when he fails in LA.
Bill Simmons is the only one man enough to call Doc out. The rest of the media is so blinded by Doc's con man act they just stay quiet.
Absolutely spot-on and brilliant post, Chief.
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The problem I have with defending Simmons is that he just doesn't know the real story. No one does.
You guys are falling for much more skilled version of Felger.
Doc surely wanted to coach KG, Pierce, Rondo, Green and Sully through another year of contention. In the end he AGREED to come back and coach regardless of a blowup. But the thing had gone too far. Doc love KG to death. His initial acceptance of the deal involved two more year of coaching KG and very likely Pierce in a contending situation.
And when the deal fell apart he agreed to come back, but it was too late.
No one knows for sure the signals Doc got from the brass. The story is the Celtics didn't want to spend that much on a coach during a rebuild.
I don't get the Doc crucifixion at all.
Or the Simmons love. Simmons will end in the dust heap of television losers. Doc will come out strong and thriving....
(http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y422/Paidthecost2betheboss/images7_zpsb5daed05.png)
Holy Crap man. Put the cup down. Is this Jeremiah?
Did you see Wyc's presser or Danny's
You really think they were trying to cut Doc to save money and what exactly is "too late" unless it's a "leaked" story...whoops...that is actually a 2 year old event?
Your saying folks are going over board while diving in backwards yourself. ::)
I admit not knowing the Doc story well. But I also think no one can know all the ins and outs when relationships end. I believe that in reality people get confused when it comes to making big decisions. Unfortunately when standing before the media you can't just say, well, I'm confused as hell about what I want at the moment, so you end up looking like a fool instead. I think Danny and Wyc respect the heck out of Doc, so that's good enough for me. And I don't like the Doc has victimized the Celtics (or me as a Celtic blogger) by leaving.
I like J.Rivers defending his dad against Simmons. Simmons will have a long career in sports media but not at events like the draft. People tune into the draft for good times, beer and popcorn. Not the same kind of meanness they faced at work all day. His humor is too easy, but it's exhausting. His producers will realize this.
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Wiley,
He signed a FIVE YEAR contract that STILL had THREE years left on it. Doc COMMITTED to that 5-year deal to be OUR coach. He QUIT!!!
EVERYONE, including Doc and Jeremiah, etc. knew that KG and PP would not be playing for the C's for the duration of that contract.
Why did he sign and AGREE TO the five-year contract? Your argument about this year falls apart quickly with ALL the information.
Smitty77
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The problem I have with defending Simmons is that he just doesn't know the real story. No one does.
You guys are falling for much more skilled version of Felger.
Doc surely wanted to coach KG, Pierce, Rondo, Green and Sully through another year of contention. In the end he AGREED to come back and coach regardless of a blowup. But the thing had gone too far. Doc love KG to death. His initial acceptance of the deal involved two more year of coaching KG and very likely Pierce in a contending situation.
And when the deal fell apart he agreed to come back, but it was too late.
No one knows for sure the signals Doc got from the brass. The story is the Celtics didn't want to spend that much on a coach during a rebuild.
I don't get the Doc crucifixion at all.
Or the Simmons love. Simmons will end in the dust heap of television losers. Doc will come out strong and thriving....
(http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y422/Paidthecost2betheboss/images7_zpsb5daed05.png)
Holy Crap man. Put the cup down. Is this Jeremiah?
Did you see Wyc's presser or Danny's
You really think they were trying to cut Doc to save money and what exactly is "too late" unless it's a "leaked" story...whoops...that is actually a 2 year old event?
Your saying folks are going over board while diving in backwards yourself. ::)
I admit not knowing the Doc story well. But I also think no one can know all the ins and outs when relationships end. I believe that in reality people get confused when it comes to making big decisions. Unfortunately when standing before the media you can't just say, well, I'm confused as hell about what I want at the moment, so you end up looking like a fool instead. I think Danny and Wyc respect the heck out of Doc, so that's good enough for me. And I don't like the Doc has victimized the Celtics (or me as a Celtic blogger) by leaving.
I like J.Rivers defending his dad against Simmons. Simmons will have a long career in sports media but not at events like the draft. People tune into the draft for good times, beer and popcorn. Not the same kind of meanness they faced at work all day. His humor is too easy, but it's exhausting. His producers will realize this.
So Simmons killed your beer buzz and your not happy?
I bolded that part cuz it's kinda important. I'm gonna go out on a limb and speculate that Bill Simmons knows more about what went on than you or I. And you should get the facts...so much as you can before just claiming one guy is right and the other will end up on the Journalistic dustbin or whatever it is you said.
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I enjoy when bandwagon fans start calling people quitters & traitors. Did Doc quit on the Celtics in the 2006-2007 season? Do you guys remember when fans were chanting for Doc to be fired? Doc didn't quit, Doc helped us out by getting compensation for him & moved on to a better situation. What can Celtics fans truly complain about?
I enjoyed Doc's time here (despite some very frustrating decisions about rotations etc.) & I am ready for the next coach. I don't begrudge the man, I just wish him well. There is generally NO loyalty in sports. Teams get rid of you when they don't need you & players/coaches should have the right to go to better situations when they want to (this was a mutual decision w/ Doc & Danny because he was under contract).
If you don't end up leaving like Ray Allen did last year (when a majority of Celtics fans/forumers called him Benedict Allen), then you get shipped off to a team like the Memphis Grizzlies or in the case of KG & PP the Brooklyn Nets, when you are supposedly a Celtics Legend. Btw this legend had no input on what team he was going to. I hope the Nets can contend (worried about the bench) & win a championship because I love KG & The Truth. Like all of my favorite Celtics that have left willingly or unwillingly, I wish them luck & I'll root for them personally.
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I like J.Rivers defending his dad against Simmons. Simmons will have a long career in sports media but not at events like the draft. People tune into the draft for good times, beer and popcorn. Not the same kind of meanness they faced at work all day. His humor is too easy, but it's exhausting. His producers will realize this.
I liked Doc's kids defending him too, but only because it resulted in a Top 5 Takedown for 2013 from Simmons himself; that line about signing his son up for Twitter.
Personally I find the drafts generally unwatchable, but this one was entertaining with him there. Bill's reaction to the #1 pick was the best; you can't fake that kind of emotional investment. The other guys looked like empty suits by comparison, even Jalen (which was weird).
I hope he's on deck for 2014.
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I enjoy when bandwagon fans start calling people quitters & traitors. Did Doc quit on the Celtics in the 2006-2007 season? Do you guys remember when fans were chanting for Doc to be fired? Doc didn't quit, Doc helped us out by getting compensation for him & moved on to a better situation. What can Celtics fans truly complain about?
I enjoyed Doc's time here (despite some very frustrating decisions about rotations etc.) & I am ready for the next coach. I don't begrudge the man, I just wish him well. There is generally NO loyalty in sports. Teams get rid of you when they don't need you & players/coaches should have the right to go to better situations when they want to (this was a mutual decision w/ Doc & Danny because he was under contract).
If you don't end up leaving like Ray Allen did last year (when a majority of Celtics fans/forumers called him Benedict Allen), then you get shipped off to a team like the Memphis Grizzlies or in the case of KG & PP the Brooklyn Nets, when you are supposedly a Celtics Legend. Btw this legend had no input on what team he was going to. I hope the Nets can contend (worried about the bench) & win a championship because I love KG & The Truth. Like all of my favorite Celtics that have left willingly or unwillingly, I wish them luck & I'll root for them personally.
Via
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/40780/when-tankers-tell-the-truth
2006-07 Boston Celtics
In 2007, with Greg Oden and Kevin Durant as the big lottery prizes, several teams were openly questioned about apparent tanking, including the Boston Celtics, Milwaukee Bucks and Memphis Grizzlies, the three teams that ended up with the best chance of drafting Oden or Durant.
In one notorious game late in the season, the Celtics, playing at home, led the woeful Bobcats 69-51 late in the third quarter -- and managed to lose the game by eight points, enhancing their draft positioning. Of course, Celtics coach Doc Rivers denied tanking charges. As Steve Bulpett reported in the Boston Herald: “Rivers insisted there was nothing sinister about leaving Paul Pierce (game-high 23 points) on the bench for the fourth quarter and letting the quintet of Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Allan Ray and Leon Powe stay on the parquet as the lead -- still at 10 with nine minutes left in the game -- disappeared.”
In the final week of the season, the Celtics and Bucks, both maneuvering for the best possible draft position, played each other and gave DNPs to high scorers Paul Pierce, Al Jefferson, Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Redd and Mo Williams.
After the game, the Associated Press reported:
Ryan Gomes had 13 through three quarters, but watched from the bench in the fourth as Boston clinched the worst record in the Eastern Conference and second worst in the league.
"I probably (would have played), but since we were in the hunt for a high draft pick, of course things are different," Gomes said. "I understand that. Hopefully things get better. Now that we clinched at least having the second-most balls in the lottery, the last three games we'll see what happens. We'll see if we can go out and finish some games."
Doc didn't quit on us in 2006-7? The whole team quit at the coaches and Managements instructions. I'm not on any bandwagon but your making up your own reality here. Memphis? They piledrove the Clips I think and had a better record than the Celtics. He wasn't being sent to the Pelicans.
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I'm going to agree with Bill on this one. Now, I won't go as far to say that Doc flat out quit on the team, but Doc has flip-flopped on his story every single time he's made a media appearance, and for all the Rivers' family talk of knowing the truth before making any judgments, maybe they should just come out and say the truth rather than saying that Doc wanted to stay, Doc wanted to leave, Doc would've came back but preferred LA, Doc might do broadcasting, Doc might just take time off to spend with his family, etc...
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The Celtics did NOT QUIT on Doc during that 18-game losing streak BCFootball45!!
Smitty77
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I'm completely with Bill for a couple reasons. One is that he has something Jeremiah doesn't. It's called talent. Another reason is that Jeremiah shouldn't talk to Bill about loyalty. Bill has it to the Celtics. He always had it and always will. Jeremiah has it to his dad. Doc quit.is Jeremiah saying doc was run out of town? Doc isn't here now because he didn't want to be. That's quitting. There might be good reasons to quit but it's still quitting
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Suck my duck Doc Rivers. The diva drama that you tortured the Celtics organization with for two month has costed us vital opportunities to hire good coaches. Not to mention, your defection is the reason KG waived his no trade clause and is no longer with us. You screwed the Celtics organization more than Ray Judas Allen ever hoped to, and yet you still have the nerve to play saint that loves Boston and wishes us only the best. But non of that matters now, does it? It is true what they say. When the ship starts to sink, the rats are the ones to leave first.
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Wiley,
He signed a FIVE YEAR contract that STILL had THREE years left on it. Doc COMMITTED to that 5-year deal to be OUR coach. He QUIT!!!
EVERYONE, including Doc and Jeremiah, etc. knew that KG and PP would not be playing for the C's for the duration of that contract.
Why did he sign and AGREE TO the five-year contract? Your argument about this year falls apart quickly with ALL the information.
Smitty77
My question, Smitty....Is why would you want Rivers around for a rebuild anyway?
I am no fan of Rivers...But after seeing his gross ineptitude and embarassing handling of the "rebuild" prior to Thibs, Garnett, and Allen....Especially the absolute defensive cluelessness.....
Rivers and Ainge did us a giant favor here....Rivers by leaving and Ainge by getting a first rounder.
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I agree with Rivers, not Simmons. Danny is giving
him nothing to work with. The guys he came back for
are all gone. He doesn't get along with Rondo either.
Danny is the one making these moves, and although the
media is 99.9% behind Danny on a complete blowup
I am not.
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Wiley,
He signed a FIVE YEAR contract that STILL had THREE years left on it. Doc COMMITTED to that 5-year deal to be OUR coach. He QUIT!!!
EVERYONE, including Doc and Jeremiah, etc. knew that KG and PP would not be playing for the C's for the duration of that contract.
Why did he sign and AGREE TO the five-year contract? Your argument about this year falls apart quickly with ALL the information.
Smitty77
My question, Smitty....Is why would you want Rivers around for a rebuild anyway?
I am no fan of Rivers...But after seeing his gross ineptitude and embarassing handling of the "rebuild" prior to Thibs, Garnett, and Allen....Especially the absolute defensive cluelessness.....
Rivers and Ainge did us a giant favor here....Rivers by leaving and Ainge by getting a first rounder.
It did turn out for the better but folks debating and parsing words or using semantics to try and defend a guy that frankly probably...no definitely doesn't give a crap what they think is in itself a topic separate from the end result topic.
That waaay too long a period while doc was buying the gas to burn his own bridges had a ton of bad side effects. If Danny hadn't walked and scheduled a presser we might be saying "hey ...at least we got a 2nd rd pick". Doc stuck it to the Celts way harder than Ray Allen ever did. Ray said very little for a long bit then slowly confirmed the rumors that had circulated about being dangled,Rondo, his usage etc. Turns out what most folks were saying on here was completely accurate though they were homers and throwing waaay too much vitriol. Doc? Doc is saying a lot...too much and it doesn't match with other stuff he says and this is over a short period of time that began right after Danny talked and Wyc talked...not too kindly I might add.
Doc is a piece of work.
Now let me put on my tinfoil hat
**puts on and actives homer switch**
If Doc is as close to K.G. as folks say. Would it be possible that he spoke with Doc about the No trade (actually a misnomer cuz it's a "I pick my spot" clause not a NO trade)
We don't have a coach right now
Our best asset based on his terrific Playoff run...what was he grabbing for Boards? like 60 in 4 games or something?..That asset ...Danny's hands were tied. That's convenient for at least 2 people who are not named Danny.
Before Ray went to Memphis...it was...well it died. Who has fingerprints on that?
People say we have 9 1st round picks in the next 5 years. Well....we might have 8 and a so called premiere coach if he had held up his contract which didn't include control over players though it seems on closer inspection he kinda did...and it really hurt us
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Given the choice between Simmons and Bilas and a bunch of ultra serious draftniks droning on and on about 'upside' and 'wingspans'....give me Simmons. Sports is about entertainment and opinions and believe it or not controversy.
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I agree with Rivers, not Simmons. Danny is giving
him nothing to work with. The guys he came back for
are all gone. He doesn't get along with Rondo either.
Danny is the one making these moves, and although the
media is 99.9% behind Danny on a complete blowup
I am not.
yeah but Simmons doesn't get 7 million a year to do his job and I don't think Danny does either. For 7 million a year cry me a Rivers, then shut up and do your Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ned job
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Wasn't there a supposed hand shake agreement when Rivers signed his last contract that he might not stick around for a rebuild? If that's the case, I don't think anyone can call it quitting. I'd just call it planning. And the Celtics set it up to maximize his departure. I don't see real enmity between Doc and the Celtics. Maybe some mild irritation or mildly hurt feelings over this or that, but that's to be expected in heavy negotiations.
Given the mutuality that seems apparent, I don't think the "quitter" label holds any water.
He left. That's it.
Isn't Jerry Sloan a bigger quitter than Doc?
People move on for all kinds of reasons. It's normal.
Too much drama here on the blog imo.
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Wasn't there a supposed hand shake agreement when Rivers signed his last contract that he might not stick around for a rebuild? If that's the case, I don't think anyone can call it quitting. I'd just call it planning.
I'd call it quitting, and I'm "anyone". The only difference is the timing.
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Simmons is wrong. It was a mutual decision between BOston and Doc. Doc didn't want to babysit a bunch of tanking children. Celtics didn't want to pay 8 million a year for a guy to babysit a bunch of tanking children. Win/Win scenario. Doc gets to coach best point guard alive... Boston gets unprotected 2015 first rounder and gets to hire a nobody on the cheap to babysit a bunch of tanking children.
Any other narrative is just based on media hype and misinformation. The facts are in front of your face.
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Simmons is wrong. It was a mutual decision between BOston and Doc. Doc didn't want to babysit a bunch of tanking children. Celtics didn't want to pay 8 million a year for a guy to babysit a bunch of tanking children. Win/Win scenario. Doc gets to coach best point guard alive... Boston gets unprotected 2015 first rounder and gets to hire a nobody on the cheap to babysit a bunch of tanking children.
Any other narrative is just based on media hype and misinformation. The facts are in front of your face.
So the comments by Doc that constantly flip-flop and contrast with the comments management makes is completely irrelevant?
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Simmons is wrong. It was a mutual decision between BOston and Doc. Doc didn't want to babysit a bunch of tanking children. Celtics didn't want to pay 8 million a year for a guy to babysit a bunch of tanking children. Win/Win scenario. Doc gets to coach best point guard alive... Boston gets unprotected 2015 first rounder and gets to hire a nobody on the cheap to babysit a bunch of tanking children.
Any other narrative is just based on media hype and misinformation. The facts are in front of your face.
The only facts I see are:
1. At some point KG and PP were going to be gone, either through retirement or trade and the C's needed to rebuild.
2. Doc signed a 5 year agreement knowing the first fact
2. Ainge indicated leading up to this month that he thought Doc would come back.
Your narrative is no more informed than anyone else.
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Simmons is wrong and he should keep his mouth shut and let it go...
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I really am not a fan of Doc. Certainly not during a rebuild. My point is simply that he CLEARLY quit on us. I am thrilled that we got out of the $21 million we owed him and got a first rounder!!
Smitty77
Wiley,
He signed a FIVE YEAR contract that STILL had THREE years left on it. Doc COMMITTED to that 5-year deal to be OUR coach. He QUIT!!!
EVERYONE, including Doc and Jeremiah, etc. knew that KG and PP would not be playing for the C's for the duration of that contract.
Why did he sign and AGREE TO the five-year contract? Your argument about this year falls apart quickly with ALL the information.
Smitty77
My question, Smitty....Is why would you want Rivers around for a rebuild anyway?
I am no fan of Rivers...But after seeing his gross ineptitude and embarassing handling of the "rebuild" prior to Thibs, Garnett, and Allen....Especially the absolute defensive cluelessness.....
Rivers and Ainge did us a giant favor here....Rivers by leaving and Ainge by getting a first rounder.
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Simmons stated his opinion,BUT Doc didn't know anything about it until it was mentioned to him. They wanted that moment for tv and they got it.
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I'm sure there were a lot of different emotions and motivations at work in Doc's head and heart on this matter. Doc seemed to have way more problems with the team this past season than since before KG arrived and I'm sure that part of him wondered if it wasn't just time to move on. On the other hand, I'm sure Doc also felt some pull to come back and help KG and Paul ride into the sunset. I mean, KG wouldn't okay any trade as long as Doc was still around and that probably meant Paul would have stayed with the team for at least the coming season as well.
But the bottom line is that when the Clippers expressed interest, Doc decided that he didn't want to deal with a rebuilding effort when he had that kind of an alternative. That might be forgivable, but I can't stomach Doc trying to pretend that Ainge is the one who pushed him out when he was perfectly happy to stay.
Mike
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I think there were signals from the C's side of blowing it up and incredible pressure and temptation to join the Clips. In a way everyone is bringing truths to the table. The fact of the matter is he sealed his fate when he started talking with and entertaining the idea of taking the helm of the Clips. He changed his mind and is asked out of his agreement with the C's. Now he is getting his deserved punishment via criticism.
Unlike Ray Allen, as far as we know, they weren't trying to get rid of him at any point. So he made his choice in suffering some MILD CONSEQUENCES via media and fan criticism and now gets to walk out of the door everyday in perfect weather, take an even larger role as a leader in LA and coach a winning team for the foreseeable future.
I think Doc (and family) should just take the negativity as punishment for hurting is relationship in Boston. I'm sure all the kids including eventually Austin will either get opportunities in the LA area if not with the Clips org itself.
The criticism is such a small price to pay and most of us will forgive him at some point. He is a huge factor in winning in 08 as he is someone the stars enjoyed playing for, plain and simple.
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Simmons is wrong. It was a mutual decision between BOston and Doc. Doc didn't want to babysit a bunch of tanking children. Celtics didn't want to pay 8 million a year for a guy to babysit a bunch of tanking children. Win/Win scenario. Doc gets to coach best point guard alive... Boston gets unprotected 2015 first rounder and gets to hire a nobody on the cheap to babysit a bunch of tanking children.
Any other narrative is just based on media hype and misinformation. The facts are in front of your face.
I think it is pretty clear it was a mutual decision only after Doc played Hamlet for upwards of two months and heading into the draft, weeks after Doc told Danny he'd like to 'explore what his options are', and then finally Danny asked about the Clippers. This was Doc's doing in a particularly petulant and passive-aggressive way and now he's trying to deny responsibility for it, which is of course ludicrous.
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Doc Quit.
Simple as that.
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My opinion is that, yeah, they came to a mutual agreement AFTER it became clear with Doc's silence (and not opening or reading a letter the organization sent him expecting him to stay) that he might not return. Then that's probably when Ainge began to explore other options for Doc
The version he's giving in interviews now is that the C's wanted expiring contracts and picks and his contract just happened to be one of them. Like he was just a casualty of business.
“They wanted to unload contracts for draft picks,” Rivers said. “I happened to be one of those contracts. Clearly I had a selfish motive\e. I had a chance to not rebuild and go to a team that is in a different phase of our franchise. This [was] done together.”
He'll get criticism and then it will fade..as it should.