CelticsStrong

Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Django on June 26, 2013, 01:19:29 PM

Title: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Django on June 26, 2013, 01:19:29 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNr9pRlCMAEJaT8.png:large)

People forget how much of a beast Bird was on the boards.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Sully7 on June 26, 2013, 01:50:10 PM
Great share...crazy numbers.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Lucky17 on June 26, 2013, 01:55:48 PM
Wow. Great find. TP.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: slamtheking on June 26, 2013, 02:03:19 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNr9pRlCMAEJaT8.png:large)

People forget how much of a beast Bird was on the boards.
I don't really think anyone who had the privilege of watching Bird ever overlooked/forgot his rebounding.  Other than Russell, he's the Celt I'd want in the game most if I needed a defensive rebound.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Fred Roberts on June 26, 2013, 02:03:26 PM
Django unchained. Interesting stats. I looked at this not too long ago, but it's much easier to analyze in a summary form like this.

Amazingly close almost across the board. Too bad those 1st ten years were pretty much Bird's career. It feels like LeBron has a long ways to go, yet.

Bird definitely had the edge in fast break dunking ability! He was so nasty he rarely even tried. 

Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: bcgenuis on June 26, 2013, 02:09:17 PM
In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.

Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: CelticG1 on June 26, 2013, 02:18:31 PM
They played in different eras with different teammates, coaches, diets, weight training, science, money, rules, officials, etc etc.

I hate trying to compare people from different eras. So pointless
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Moranis on June 26, 2013, 02:21:04 PM
In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.
None of that should be surprising.  James' has built his career taking it to the hole.  That is where you get fouled.  Bird was much more a jump shooter than James.  Even inside the line he would take a lot of long 2's.  Today's game that just doesn't happen.  Bird would take a lot more 3's today though and thus would have upped his points per game by at least a point or two, though that might have effected his percentage a bit and may have possibly effected his offensive rebounding opportunities.  Of course at 6'10" Bird would have been a PF had he entered the league today and would be molded more like Dirk in that regard.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: bcgenuis on June 26, 2013, 02:25:32 PM
In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.
None of that should be surprising.  James' has built his career taking it to the hole.  That is where you get fouled.  Bird was much more a jump shooter than James.  Even inside the line he would take a lot of long 2's.  Today's game that just doesn't happen.  Bird would take a lot more 3's today though and thus would have upped his points per game by at least a point or two, though that might have effected his percentage a bit and may have possibly effected his offensive rebounding opportunities.  Of course at 6'10" Bird would have been a PF had he entered the league today and would be molded more like Dirk in that regard.

I would be interested to see a shot chart comparing LBJ and Bird's shot selection.  I don't think it'l be that different as you make it out to be.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: quidinqui33 on June 26, 2013, 02:28:23 PM
For me, 1984-1986 Larry Bird is and will always be the greatest basketball player ever.  He could do every primary skill at an elite level (shoot, rebound, pass, defend, move wihthout the ball, hit big shots, free throws, 3-point ragne, etc).  I don't know that there are any other players you can say that about.

Players like Jordan and eventually Lebron will likely have longer careers at a high level (which is why they will end up in front of Bird on lists), and are more athletic (though Bird was not un-athletic as people like to claim), but if I had to start a team today and pick a player at his peak, Larry Bird is my guy.  I'm biased, but I'm also right! :)
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: TitleMaster on June 26, 2013, 02:44:40 PM
I don't really think anyone who had the privilege of watching Bird ever overlooked/forgot his rebounding.  Other than Russell, he's the Celt I'd want in the game most if I needed a defensive rebound.

Don't forget Paul Silas, as a rebounding machine.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/silaspa01.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/silaspa01.html)

For his 4 years on the Celts, he averaged 13.7 boards per 36 minutes. 4-5 were off the offensive glass which meant pretty much, he'd kept many possessions alive and took away from the opponent's ability to come back from our missed shot attempts. Cowens got many of the other boards, however, his offense ones were less than Silas's.

And then add in Paul's dozen points plus one-on-one defense against slasher scorers, & you have an indispensable player.


Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Tgro on June 26, 2013, 03:17:37 PM
In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.
None of that should be surprising.  James' has built his career taking it to the hole.  That is where you get fouled.  Bird was much more a jump shooter than James.  Even inside the line he would take a lot of long 2's.  Today's game that just doesn't happen.  Bird would take a lot more 3's today though and thus would have upped his points per game by at least a point or two, though that might have effected his percentage a bit and may have possibly effected his offensive rebounding opportunities.  Of course at 6'10" Bird would have been a PF had he entered the league today and would be molded more like Dirk in that regard.

I would be interested to see a shot chart comparing LBJ and Bird's shot selection.  I don't think it'l be that different as you make it out to be.

No one would say LBJ can't shoot from just about anywhere with great success. I would just say Bird shot it from anywhere a LOT more and did it amazingly well at that.

While James can hit those shots too, but in comparison, he took it to the hole a heck of a lot more than Bird ever did. Bird was just a flat out shooter. James was more of a mix of to the hole and shooting.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: biggs on June 26, 2013, 03:27:01 PM
Wow that's amazing! Stern has created lebron in the image of bird. Must be nice to enter the league with a platinum spoon in your crybaby mouth lebron. And PS- lebron can you please pick a different sport to ruin? Or were you groomed to play in the nba because its the most corrupt sport of any professional league in America?
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: angryguy77 on June 26, 2013, 03:32:14 PM
In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.

Exactly what I was thinking looking at these numbers.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 27, 2013, 05:44:01 AM
For me, 1984-1986 Larry Bird is and will always be the greatest basketball player ever.  He could do every primary skill at an elite level (shoot, rebound, pass, defend, move wihthout the ball, hit big shots, free throws, 3-point ragne, etc).  I don't know that there are any other players you can say that about.

Players like Jordan and eventually Lebron will likely have longer careers at a high level (which is why they will end up in front of Bird on lists), and are more athletic (though Bird was not un-athletic as people like to claim), but if I had to start a team today and pick a player at his peak, Larry Bird is my guy.  I'm biased, but I'm also right! :)

  I also think Bird was probably the best player I ever saw. His passing was amazing. I'd put him in the top 5 of all time in that category.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: EvilEmpire on June 27, 2013, 06:14:22 AM
Here is the article that the comparison was taken from

http://ballislife.com/larry-bird-vs-lebron-james/

Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: bfrombleacher on June 27, 2013, 06:24:38 AM
40% less personal fouls, 60% more free throws.

Bird had to use his jump shot more because the defense was that much tougher. A "never fouled out" streak was unheard of. Star calls weren't as outrageous.

I agree with the guy who said 30 PPG isn't out of the question.

The league "back then" was less athletic from a bystander's standpoint because guards cannot do all the flashy stuff without getting completely ripped apart by the defense first. To say that the old guys wouldn't have been able to catch up is absurd, whoever should say that.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: moiso on June 27, 2013, 07:06:58 AM
The only thing that surprised me is that Bird averaged more steals.  That's impressive.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 27, 2013, 07:20:37 AM
In today's game environment - meaning more 3's and star treatment re fouls- Bird would easily avg over 30 ppg.

Wow! LBJ plays one minute more and gets called for one foul less on avg. Also look at the FTA discrepancy - LBJ is taking more 3's and still has more FTA's.

At 88% (assuming Bird got fouled the same amount as LBJ)  nearly +3 ppg in FTM category alone. Thrown in another 3 pointer made and you're at +4.

Also consider the game was much more physical then and Larry only avg'd 5.3 FTA's. What a joke the officiating has become.
None of that should be surprising.  James' has built his career taking it to the hole.  That is where you get fouled.  Bird was much more a jump shooter than James.  Even inside the line he would take a lot of long 2's.  Today's game that just doesn't happen.  Bird would take a lot more 3's today though and thus would have upped his points per game by at least a point or two, though that might have effected his percentage a bit and may have possibly effected his offensive rebounding opportunities.  Of course at 6'10" Bird would have been a PF had he entered the league today and would be molded more like Dirk in that regard.

  Considering the opposing bigs were generally closer to the basket than they are now LeBron would have had a lot of games that looked like how he played against the Mavs in the finals.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: ACF on June 27, 2013, 07:20:48 AM
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3475098/larry-bird-3pt-88-o.gif)
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Celtics17 on June 27, 2013, 07:49:51 AM
Really the two compare favorably although in somewhat different ways. I know we love to hate Lebron but the guy can play! Bird's biggest edge was his computer mind, he saw the game unfold long before it did. Lebron has a huge edge though over Bird in man to man defense which can be a huge part of the game. Imagine what Bron would do with McHale and Parrish backing him up.

Bird though is still the player I would choose for one series. His ability to see the game and dictate it's out outcome is unparralelled. Winning close games with your ability to score is one thing but winning ten minutes before they are over is an ability few NBa players have ever had.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 27, 2013, 07:51:34 AM
One was a man whose dad killed himself and he built himself into a heck of a player with hard work.  The other is an amazingly talented wild brat whose is helped immensely by David Stern.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Smutzy#9 on June 27, 2013, 07:58:46 AM
One was a man whose dad killed himself and he built himself into a heck of a player with hard work.  The other is an amazingly talented wild brat whose is helped immensely by David Stern.

You saying that is being a complete Homer. I love bird to death, but your really think that Lebron James hasnt worked hard?????
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Moranis on June 27, 2013, 08:35:46 AM
One was a man whose dad killed himself and he built himself into a heck of a player with hard work.  The other is an amazingly talented wild brat whose is helped immensely by David Stern.

You saying that is being a complete Homer. I love bird to death, but your really think that Lebron James hasnt worked hard?????
yeah, this is such an easy life

Quote
LeBron James was born on December 30, 1984, in Akron, Ohio.  His mother, Gloria James, was only 16 at the time. His biological father, Anthony McClelland, was an ex-con uninterested in being a parent. Gloria raised LeBron on her own, and to this day he goes by her last name.

Life was often a struggle for LeBron and his mother. Gloria battled personal problems during much of his childhood. Some of those were brought on by the death of her mother, who passed away when LeBron was an infant. Bouncing between retail and accounting jobs, Gloria was never able to land steady work, and she and LeBron moved from apartment to apartment. The pair got to know all the seedier neighborhoods of Akron, a city of more than 200,000 located less than a hour south of Cleveland.

Despite her failings, Gloria worked hard to be a loving mother and shield LeBron from the poverty and violence of the streets. This was no easy chore, and at times made her choice of boyfriends seem puzzling. When LeBron was two, she started dating Eddie Jackson. In and out of trouble with the law, he went to prison in 1990 for aggravated cocaine trafficking. (In 2002, he pled guilty to mortgage fraud and mail fraud.) Nevertheless LeBron formed a bond with Jackson, and Gloria liked having a man around who was willing to serve as a father figure. Her brothers, Terry and Curt, also helped out.

From an early age, LeBron showed tremendous instincts for basketball. Gloria gave him a miniature hoop and ball when he was an infant, and he amused himself for hours each day with the toys. LeBron also had the genes necessary to spawn a long-limbed basketball phenom. Though Gloria stands only 5-5, she has relatives who are much taller.

The strain of the Jameses’ nomadic lifestyle began to take its toll when LeBron entered elementary school. Embarrassed by his home life, he didn’t make friends easily. And thought he wanted to do well in school, focusing on his studies was difficult. He found an outlet for his emotions and intelligence in sports. Basketball and football were his favorites.

By now LeBron had developed into a superb athlete. In addition to his natural speed, quickness and strength, he could think his way around the court or gridiron. His hero was Michael Jordan, and he patterned his game after his idol’s. LeBron liked taking it to the hole, as well as launching jumpers, but he took a special delight in distributing the basketball to his teammates.

In football, LeBron usually played receiver. He scored 19 touchdowns in six games in his first year of Pee Wee football. His coach was Frankie Walker, a man who would soon have a profound effect on his life. After the season ended, Walker began hearing stories that his young star, now a fourth-grader, was missing school on a regular basis. He soon discovered that LeBron had all but dropped out. Walker confronted Gloria, who admitted that her son needed a more stable living environment. They agreed that Lebron should move in with Walker and his family.

LeBron quickly took to his new surroundings. Walker and his wife, Pam, had three kids, Chanelle, Frankie Jr. and Tanesha. Everyone in the household, including LeBron, was responsible for daily chores. The structure did wonders for him. As a fifth grader, he received his school’s attendance award.

Walker also had a positive impact on Lebron’s basketball. Among other things, he taught the youngster how to shoot with his left hand.

After 18 months of living separately from her son, Gloria took him back. But when financial problems arose, LeBron returned to the Walkers. Eventually they worked out an arrangement to help Gloria pay her rent. Walker and his wife wanted to ensure that LeBron always had a place in the Akron area he could call home.

For LeBron, another advantage of living with the Walkers was his friendship with Frankie Jr. The two ran with four other boys—Sian Cotton, Dru Joyce III, Willie McGee and Romeo Travis. Together they formed a terrific team on the basketball court. On Sunday nights they gathered at the Akron Jewish Community Center, where Keith Dambrot, the former head coach at Central Michigan University, put them through their paces.

LeBron and Dru, who played point guard, became extremely close friends. In fact, when LeBron was 12, he spent most of that summer living with Joyce’s family.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Fan from VT on June 27, 2013, 10:02:52 AM
Guys defense is WAY better now than in the 80s. Better coaching, more sopjisticated schemes, better athlestes, and now you can actually play a hybrid zone/ pack the paint which ypu couldnt do AT ALL back then. Hate to say it, but if we returned to the old illegal defense, leveon would be more potent.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Finkelskyhook on June 27, 2013, 10:06:59 AM
The rulebook applied to every NBA player during most of Bird's career...Particularly the first 10 years.

The rulebook hasn't been remotely applicable to the messiah since he suited up in the NBA.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 27, 2013, 10:11:16 AM
Guys defense is WAY better now than in the 80s. Better coaching, more sopjisticated schemes, better athlestes, and now you can actually play a hybrid zone/ pack the paint which ypu couldnt do AT ALL back then. Hate to say it, but if we returned to the old illegal defense, leveon would be more potent.

  They didn't have a league full of bigs who were good enough to pull opposing bigs away from the basket. Watch Dr. J highlights, I don't think you'd say that the opposing bigs were far from the rim on his drives.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Fan from VT on June 27, 2013, 11:04:34 AM
Guys defense is WAY better now than in the 80s. Better coaching, more sopjisticated schemes, better athlestes, and now you can actually play a hybrid zone/ pack the paint which ypu couldnt do AT ALL back then. Hate to say it, but if we returned to the old illegal defense, leveon would be more potent.

  They didn't have a league full of bigs who were good enough to pull opposing bigs away from the basket. Watch Dr. J highlights, I don't think you'd say that the opposing bigs were far from the rim on his drives.


Maybe, but thats because the bigs were slower, and, more importantly, back then you could not ever pull an extra defender to the strong side of the paint. Just couldnt. Now the primary ballhandler routinely faces 3+ sagging defenders in their driving lanes. Defense is way stronger now, a fact accepted by pretty much everyone except the nostalgic.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: fairweatherfan on June 27, 2013, 11:15:44 AM
Yeah, the knock on the NBA in the 80s was that nobody played any defense (even though they clearly played more than in the 60s).  It was partly due to the illegal defense rules, but also the players were generally less mobile and coaches had far less sophisticated defensive schemes than today. 

The rule changes that helped the offense (like no hand-checking) were largely implemented because defenses were becoming too effective and the game was getting ugly.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Finkelskyhook on June 27, 2013, 11:33:14 AM
Yeah, the knock on the NBA in the 80s was that nobody played any defense (even though they clearly played more than in the 60s).  It was partly due to the illegal defense rules, but also the players were generally less mobile and coaches had far less sophisticated defensive schemes than today. 

The rule changes that helped the offense (like no hand-checking) were largely implemented because defenses were becoming too effective and the game was getting ugly.

Now the game is completely ugly because the rules don't apply to the game's best player...And only apply partly to a dozen "superstars".
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: CeltsPride on June 27, 2013, 12:09:26 PM
These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 27, 2013, 12:41:27 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Snakehead on June 27, 2013, 12:44:52 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

I think you're biased against James, reading this.

First, he did very well in Cleveland considering what those teams actually were, especially on offense.  The talent level was very low.  The best player to play on any of those teams (aside from James) was MO WILLIAMS.  MO WILLIAMS.  That's terrible.

Larry Hughes was brought in and literally billed as LeBron's Pippen.  Not only does this speak to the talent level, but the incompetence of the front office.

LeBron didn't play in college so let's just save your inference that he would have done poorly.

And if you want that three point contest, sure Bird wins.  How about the dunk contest though?

They aren't the same player.  That's fine.  No need to try to make them the same player.  They are both all time greats.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: CeltsPride on June 27, 2013, 12:46:17 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Moranis on June 27, 2013, 01:18:27 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age
His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly. 
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: slamtheking on June 27, 2013, 01:59:17 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age
His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.
Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: CeltsPride on June 27, 2013, 02:06:18 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age
His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.

Yep, i dont get what people try to do here. I LOVE Bird. Truly an all time great, but I am not going to pretend Lebron doesnt match up. By the time Lebron is done, I have little doubt he will be side by side with MJ at the top of the NBA hierarchy. Cant understand why people feel the need to bash him rather than to just enjoy his greatness.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: aporel#18 on June 27, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
comparing LeBroid to Larry Bird is one of the most stupid narratives plaguing the NBA this year.

LeTravel doesn't have to deal with standard rules, just as Michael Jordan. I think he's a talented player, and I'd love to see how he can adjust to play by actual rules. I think he could make it, and it's a shame he doesn't need to.

Bird had won almost everything by 1986, he had another fantastic year in 1986-1987 and he could have won another ring had Walton and McHale stayed healthy and/or had Len Bias been able to play. Then another great season, but in his 9th year he started dealing with injuries, and still was able to get 20/10 with 50/40/90 shooting. If using 19y.o. Lebroid stats is unfair, what about using injured Bird stats? smh

Comparing players from different eras is silly, but comparing a fundamentals monster like Bird to a physical monster like LeBroid doesn't make sense.

LeBron is a more talented, stronger Dominique Wilkins, but he's babied by the NBA the way Jordan was. Bird had to deal with Magic & Kareem, Mo Malone & Dr. J, the Pistons, Hakeem & Sampson, the Bucks... LeBron, like Jordan, has been unable to get pass the Cs (2007 is an aberration) until they were banged up and old. I don't even consider the South Beach shortcut against him.

I don't hate LeBron, and of course I'm biased, because Bird is the best player I've watched, and even when they lost to the Fakers in 1985, I became a Celtic fan because of Larry Legend. But no matter what Nike, BSPN and Stern want you to believe, if you have eyes and are old enough, you know you can't compare those two.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Moranis on June 27, 2013, 02:26:56 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age
His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.
Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.
I don't know if I would go that far.  I mean Indiana State played Virginia Tech (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Oklahoma (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Arkansas (0 NBA players), Depaul (Mark Aguirre in his first year at Depaul and Gary Garland who had 1 year in the NBA), and then of course Michigan State (Magic, Greg Kelser, and Jay Vincent (2nd year at MSU)).  So in other-words until Michigan State in the finals, Indiana State played 4 games and faced just 1 future NBA player that played more than 1 year in the league (and Aguirre had a very solid all star level career, but isn't exactly an all timer) and three guys that were in the league for a year. 
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: CeltsPride on June 27, 2013, 02:31:05 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age
His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.
Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.
I don't know if I would go that far.  I mean Indiana State played Virginia Tech (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Oklahoma (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Arkansas (0 NBA players), Depaul (Mark Aguirre in his first year at Depaul and Gary Garland who had 1 year in the NBA), and then of course Michigan State (Magic, Greg Kelser, and Jay Vincent (2nd year at MSU)).  So in other-words until Michigan State in the finals, Indiana State played 4 games and faced just 1 future NBA player that played more than 1 year in the league (and Aguirre had a very solid all star level career, but isn't exactly an all timer) and three guys that were in the league for a year.

now that's a post. well done.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 27, 2013, 02:41:02 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age
His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.
Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.
I don't know if I would go that far.  I mean Indiana State played Virginia Tech (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Oklahoma (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Arkansas (0 NBA players), Depaul (Mark Aguirre in his first year at Depaul and Gary Garland who had 1 year in the NBA), and then of course Michigan State (Magic, Greg Kelser, and Jay Vincent (2nd year at MSU)).  So in other-words until Michigan State in the finals, Indiana State played 4 games and faced just 1 future NBA player that played more than 1 year in the league (and Aguirre had a very solid all star level career, but isn't exactly an all timer) and three guys that were in the league for a year.

  Without checking the rosters I'd bet Sydney Moncreif was on Arkansas. But beyond that, did you see Bird in college? You really can't just look at rosters and pro stats and get a good line on players or teams. He did more to carry that team than any college player I can remember seeing.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: blink on June 27, 2013, 02:48:56 PM
I lived in Iowa when Bird was in college.  I saw him twice in person when Indiana State played at my fav college team Drake Bulldogs (i know Drake isn't much, but it was all we had).  He was absolutely the best player I had ever seen.  He did it when everyone knew he was going to do it, and they couldn't stop him.  At the time, I really didn't like Bird.  Probably because he was so unstoppable.

Larry Bird in college was an absolute phenom.  I was about 10-11 years old.  I think Larry set the scoring record at the time for Veterans Memorial Auditorium.  I think he laid 46 or 48 on Drake, and Drake almost pulled the upset.

He didn't have much of a team around him.  He made everyone on his team better.  He was an incredible passer, and a lights out shooter.  He was a one man team.  So everyone who even thinks he had a lot of help on those ISU teams, think again.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Moranis on June 27, 2013, 02:58:20 PM
Bird led a mid major college, to the NCAA finals.   He was the sole star on that team.   James did not do well solo in CLE.  He was productive though but not as remarkable as Bird's feat.   I do not think James could have led an NCAA team to the finals.   His Cav teams were terrible in the final they got too and he disappeared. 

Bird would have never switched teams, nor would Jordan switch teams in a pitiful effort to win a title.   These guys relished a challenge.  LeBron tried to stack the deck.  he quit on his home town, period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QURrcvalw0

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5391478

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/larry-bird-speaks-lebrons-decision-1397713/

I want to see James enter a three point contest but he won't because it would be an embarrassment for him.

While Bird was certainly impressive at 22 leading Indiana State to the Finals, I'm not sure it's as impressive as Lebron leading that crappy Cavs teams to the NBA Finals at age 22. As good as Bird was in college at age 22, he was not going to be averaging 27/7/6 in the NBA at that age
His entire post is ridiculous.  I mean Carmelo Anthony led his college team to a NCAA title as a freshman.  Lebron James has been better than Carmelo Anthony at every single age in their respective careers.  To act like Lebron couldn't have led a NCAA team to the championship game is just silly.
Lebron very well could have led a team to the NCAA title if he went to school.  would not be as impressive as what Bird did though.  In Bird's days, it was rare that any players left school early so the college teams were stronger/better back then.  nowadays with any player showing a minimal amount of talent doing a 1-and-done, it only takes that one great player to take a college team all the way.  it's a noteworthy accomplishment for sure but not as much as being the only good player on a team that's going up against a team that has several future NBA players on it.
I don't know if I would go that far.  I mean Indiana State played Virginia Tech (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Oklahoma (1 year from 1 player in the NBA), Arkansas (0 NBA players), Depaul (Mark Aguirre in his first year at Depaul and Gary Garland who had 1 year in the NBA), and then of course Michigan State (Magic, Greg Kelser, and Jay Vincent (2nd year at MSU)).  So in other-words until Michigan State in the finals, Indiana State played 4 games and faced just 1 future NBA player that played more than 1 year in the league (and Aguirre had a very solid all star level career, but isn't exactly an all timer) and three guys that were in the league for a year.

  Without checking the rosters I'd bet Sydney Moncreif was on Arkansas. But beyond that, did you see Bird in college? You really can't just look at rosters and pro stats and get a good line on players or teams. He did more to carry that team than any college player I can remember seeing.
he was.  I missed him when I looked.

Not sure what the rest of your post has to do with mine.  I was merely commenting on the talent level on the whole in the old days.  It really wasn't that much better.  There were a few more good players in college on the whole (since they stayed longer), but the 1 and done guys are what 5-10 per year.  So you have what, maybe 15-20 more real good players in college in the old days.  Spread them out and there really isn't that much difference in overall talent.  The difference is that the really good players were all more seasoned and better on the whole, but the best players of then and the best players of today have similar seasoning levels.  That was the point I was making.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 27, 2013, 07:08:16 PM
These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: CeltsPride on June 27, 2013, 07:20:41 PM
These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 

The game is so different today. Back in the mid 80's, there were 10 guys every year averaging at least 25 per game. Last year, there were a total of 4 guys who averaged 25 a game.

And Lebron is every bit as unselfish as bird with respect to stats. You don't join a team with wade and bosh if you are concerned about stats
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 27, 2013, 07:34:16 PM
These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 

The game is so different today. Back in the mid 80's, there were 10 guys every year averaging at least 25 per game. Last year, there were a total of 4 guys who averaged 25 a game.

And Lebron is every bit as unselfish as bird with respect to stats. You don't join a team with wade and bosh if you are concerned about stats

  There were about as many players that averaged 25 a game in the last 10 years as there were in the 80s. Even if you didn't see the 80s you could have checked the stats.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: CeltsPride on June 27, 2013, 07:50:39 PM
These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 

The game is so different today. Back in the mid 80's, there were 10 guys every year averaging at least 25 per game. Last year, there were a total of 4 guys who averaged 25 a game.

And Lebron is every bit as unselfish as bird with respect to stats. You don't join a team with wade and bosh if you are concerned about stats

  There were about as many players that averaged 25 a game in the last 10 years as there were in the 80s. Even if you didn't see the 80s you could have checked the stats.

Yah, I don't know what that means
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 27, 2013, 07:55:30 PM
These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 

The game is so different today. Back in the mid 80's, there were 10 guys every year averaging at least 25 per game. Last year, there were a total of 4 guys who averaged 25 a game.

And Lebron is every bit as unselfish as bird with respect to stats. You don't join a team with wade and bosh if you are concerned about stats

  There were about as many players that averaged 25 a game in the last 10 years as there were in the 80s. Even if you didn't see the 80s you could have checked the stats.

Yah, I don't know what that means

  It's fairly simple. Figure out how many people averaged 25 a game every year in the 80s, figure out how many people average 25 a game over the last 10 years, figure out that your claim that more people averaged 25 a game in a given year in the 80s was wrong.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: CeltsPride on June 28, 2013, 06:54:04 AM
These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 

The game is so different today. Back in the mid 80's, there were 10 guys every year averaging at least 25 per game. Last year, there were a total of 4 guys who averaged 25 a game.

And Lebron is every bit as unselfish as bird with respect to stats. You don't join a team with wade and bosh if you are concerned about stats

  There were about as many players that averaged 25 a game in the last 10 years as there were in the 80s. Even if you didn't see the 80s you could have checked the stats.

Yah, I don't know what that means

  It's fairly simple. Figure out how many people averaged 25 a game every year in the 80s, figure out how many people average 25 a game over the last 10 years, figure out that your claim that more people averaged 25 a game in a given year in the 80s was wrong.


I didn't make a claim, I stated a fact. Look at the scoring leaders from any year in the mid 80s and you will see 9 or 10 guys at 25+ per game. Look at the scoring leaders from any of the past 5 years and you will see half as many guys at 25 ppg.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Moranis on June 28, 2013, 01:52:58 PM
Since you were both too lazy to look

79-80 - 5
81 - 5
82 - 4
83 - 4
84 - 6
85 - 8
86 - 5
87 - 7
88 - 9
89 - 9

09 - 6
10 - 7
11 - 7
12 - 4
13 - 5
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 28, 2013, 04:47:25 PM
These Lebron (10 years in the league) comparisons are absurd. The guy was playing in the NBA at 19 years old. Bird was 23 his rookie year--so you are giving these older guys credit for years in their prime while using Lebrons stats as a kid. You want to make a fair comparison, start Lebron's stats at 23 and see how he matches up against guys like Bird and Jordan.

  Looking at LeBron's early years helps him, it doesn't hurt him. If you want to be fair, throw out the Cavs years when he was putting up better numbers because his teammates weren't that great. All of his best scoring years were in that range. Take his Miami years and compare him to Larry at the same age. James put up 27/8/7, Bird put up 26/11/6.

  It's also worth pointing out that Bird was never big on stats and could have put up better numbers than he did but he sacrificed his numbers for the good of the team.
 

The game is so different today. Back in the mid 80's, there were 10 guys every year averaging at least 25 per game. Last year, there were a total of 4 guys who averaged 25 a game.

And Lebron is every bit as unselfish as bird with respect to stats. You don't join a team with wade and bosh if you are concerned about stats

  There were about as many players that averaged 25 a game in the last 10 years as there were in the 80s. Even if you didn't see the 80s you could have checked the stats.

Yah, I don't know what that means

  It's fairly simple. Figure out how many people averaged 25 a game every year in the 80s, figure out how many people average 25 a game over the last 10 years, figure out that your claim that more people averaged 25 a game in a given year in the 80s was wrong.


I didn't make a claim, I stated a fact. Look at the scoring leaders from any year in the mid 80s and you will see 9 or 10 guys at 25+ per game. Look at the scoring leaders from any of the past 5 years and you will see half as many guys at 25 ppg.

  What I'm trying to explain to you is that if you actually look at the scoring leaders from those years you'll find that your "fact" is wrong.
Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: BballTim on June 28, 2013, 04:48:48 PM
Since you were both too lazy to look

79-80 - 5
81 - 5
82 - 4
83 - 4
84 - 6
85 - 8
86 - 5
87 - 7
88 - 9
89 - 9

09 - 6
10 - 7
11 - 7
12 - 4
13 - 5

  Obviously I looked, that's why I said "There were about as many players that averaged 25 a game in the last 10 years as there were in the 80s". That's not from memory.

Title: Re: LeBron and Bird through the first 10 years
Post by: Moranis on June 28, 2013, 09:37:08 PM
Since you were both too lazy to look

79-80 - 5
81 - 5
82 - 4
83 - 4
84 - 6
85 - 8
86 - 5
87 - 7
88 - 9
89 - 9

09 - 6
10 - 7
11 - 7
12 - 4
13 - 5

  Obviously I looked, that's why I said "There were about as many players that averaged 25 a game in the last 10 years as there were in the 80s". That's not from memory.
I figured you had, but it was funnier to say what I said.