CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: j804 on June 16, 2013, 07:13:35 PM
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I am listening to his BS report podcast he did this morning. He said he has "some" inside info didn't really want to put it out there but said he thinks we want Bledsoe to flip with Pierce/Bradley etc certain pieces for Josh Smith to team up with Rondo. It was pretty interesting and bet that is what what Ainge is trying to do. It's Rondos team now team him up with his old buddy and try and recruit pieces here.
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while a front court of jordan and smith would be really athletic and exciting, neither can shoot ft's . Add Rondo's ft shooting , and that is not good at end of games......
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He also suggested Pierce to Cleveland which I could see as a decent idea too.
I'm not a big Smith guy, but maybe he and Rondo could bring out the best in each other. A Pierce and Bledsoe/Bradley for Smith trade is really one that Atlanta cannot refuse.
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Makes sense. Easy to believe.
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The only way I like this is if we bring in George Karl. We'd be built similar to the Sonics teams of the 90s, with Rajon playing Payton, Smith as Kemp and Green as Detlef...i'm not too excited about this prospect though. Seems like a mediocore team at best.
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Makes a lot of sense, and Rondo is close with Josh Smith. We need more though if we hope to contend. Rondo, Jordan, Green, Smith and Bradley leaves us with a huge lack of shooting/scoring, even moreso than we've had the last few years. Heck of a defensive team though.
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I am listening to his BS report podcast he did this morning. He said he has "some" inside info didn't really want to put it out there but said he thinks we want Bledsoe to flip with Pierce/Bradley etc certain pieces for Josh Smith to team up with Rondo. It was pretty interesting and bet that is what what Ainge is trying to do. It's Rondos team now team him up with his old buddy and try and recruit pieces here.
That's his theory, I hope he's wrong. I'm a huge Josh Smith fan but a lineup of Jordan, Smith, Green, Bradley and Rondo is just good enough to get in the playoffs but not good enough to go anywhere.
On the other hand, I think that team would be so much fun to watch. They would be one of the most athletic teams in the league, but completely unable to shoot. For this to be a tenable lineup, Jeff Green, Avery Bradley and Rajon Rondo need to have career years in shooting. I think that they find a way to deal Pierce and not take on a long term contract, though.
Also, in this podcast he talks about how Nerlens Noel might be slipping because his posse hasn't allowed him to take meetings with agents. They are worrying that his crew might be a bad influence. Also that he has an injury history from when he got hurt soph year of high school. I wonder if he slips a little in the draft to the point that we can come up and get him.
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Maybe we could trade Bradley, salary filler, and some picks for Eric Gordon? That would certainly help round out that lineup:
Rondo
Gordon
Green
Smith
Jordan
I like it.
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you ole dirty dog, DA!
I love it!!
And DAJ + Josh Smith...come on, man. Yall can say DAJ is overrated now, but that's a solid front court.
*green tinted glasses* We would win games by margins so large that free throws wouldn't even matter */green tinted glasses*
also
that's not rebuilding
that's kinda just going young
ugh, this seems too good to be true though
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I don't think it's true.
We could ship them a first round pick and Avery Bradley for Josh Smith otherwise the Hawks get nada anyway.
Even then the first rounder will do.
Can't see Danny building a horrid team of shooters like that.
Rondo
Bradley
Green (ok shooter(
Smith
Jordan
Puke.
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Carlos Delfino and Kyle Korver are also available if we need shooters. Just saying.
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again, you guys are forgetting that we're on the small ball East Coast
Green is big at the 3.
You have a big, strong and athletic front court in DAJ and Smith
I think Rondo will come back a better shooter.
And you have to respect Greens 3 point shooting
not to mention, that if we DID keep AB, the defense of this unit is going to be crazy...even if it's just man on man.
I think yes, you still need some shooters and if you round your bench out with some, I think you put yourself in a VERY good position.
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Maybe we could trade Bradley, salary filler, and some picks for Eric Gordon? That would certainly help round out that lineup:
Rondo
Gordon
Green
Smith
Jordan
I like it.
At the end of the game substitute Sully for Jordan.
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I don't think it's true.
We could ship them a first round pick and Avery Bradley for Josh Smith otherwise the Hawks get nada anyway.
Even then the first rounder will do.
Can't see Danny building a horrid team of shooters like that.
Rondo
Bradley
Green (ok shooter(
Smith
Jordan
Puke.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtUiO36BSrgH1_I7qSyfvIVy-lRR2RYq6m2EvtbaxrEDkiTIEV)
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Maybe we could trade Bradley, salary filler, and some picks for Eric Gordon? That would certainly help round out that lineup:
Rondo
Gordon
Green
Smith
Jordan
I like it.
At the end of the game substitute Sully for Jordan.
perfect
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Makes sense. Easy to believe.
It does what better way than to smoothly transition the team to Rondo's when well obviously be rebuilding and a losing team at first, get his best friend here. He can actually have pull in getting him here too.
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Maybe we could trade Bradley, salary filler, and some picks for Eric Gordon? That would certainly help round out that lineup:
Rondo
Gordon
Green
Smith
Jordan
I like it.
Rondo/T-Will(?)
Gordon/Lee or Terry
Green/(?) -- Free agent?
Smith/Bass/Sully
Jordan/Bass/Melo?Shav?
it's not necessarily win now, but it's definitely a team to disrupt some people
how many games does this team win?
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I'm not much of a Smith fan and hate the idea of hack-a-Celtic, but this would make for an interesting team and, depending on how Green, Jordan/Melo develop, could be a pretty decent team to build on.
Not sure I can see why Atlanta does this unless they are pretty sure they can pick up DH and/or CP.
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Maybe we could trade Bradley, salary filler, and some picks for Eric Gordon? That would certainly help round out that lineup:
Rondo
Gordon
Green
Smith
Jordan
I like it.
Rondo/T-Will(?)
Gordon/Lee or Terry
Green/(?) -- Free agent?
Smith/Bass/Sully
Jordan/Bass/Melo?Shav?
it's not necessarily win now, but it's definitely a team to disrupt some people
how many games does this team win?
with a decent coach, 50 wins. With Vinny Del Negro, 31.
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I'm not much of a Smith fan and hate the idea of hack-a-Celtic, but this would make for an interesting team and, depending on how Green, Jordan/Melo develop, could be a pretty decent team to build on.
Not sure I can see why Atlanta does this unless they are pretty sure they can pick up DH and/or CP.
they do it because Josh Smith is an unrestricted FA who is leaving anyway
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Maybe we could trade Bradley, salary filler, and some picks for Eric Gordon? That would certainly help round out that lineup:
Rondo
Gordon
Green
Smith
Jordan
I like it.
Rondo/T-Will(?)
Gordon/Lee or Terry
Green/(?) -- Free agent?
Smith/Bass/Sully
Jordan/Bass/Melo?Shav?
it's not necessarily win now, but it's definitely a team to disrupt some people
how many games does this team win?
with a decent coach, 50 wins. With Vinny Del Negro, 31.
ROFL!
poor Vinny
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my next question is...if we don't get Bledsoe, is there a guy that Atlanta would want that we have? or a couple?
Because in the event this LAC trade falls thru, is Josh Smith and KG really a bad front court? Well, I guess then you have to assume KG would stick around with his butt-buddy Pauly ::)
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All of the different talk is mind numbing but I don't like the idea of Josh Smith. I recognize he is a good player and would make us younger but we would have to commit $$$ and years to him and then that would be it. That is our team plus or minus a few MLEs for the next 3-4 years.
I am not high enough on Rondo or Smith to think a team headed by them is good enough to do much. I doubt we would even be as good as NJ was this year.
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I think you would have Rondo + Smith and then let everyone else go so you could sign a third star. Then build around that. Not a bad plan if that's the case.
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Smith loves boston and i actually think he has a pretty good rapport with all the boston players. He has stated publically that when they play in atlanta its almost like another home game for the celtics. Smith should know he isnt worth max money
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I think you would have Rondo + Smith and then let everyone else go so you could sign a third star. Then build around that. Not a bad plan if that's the case.
That 3rd star better be a Durant-like shooter or else we're srewed
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Yeah, this ain't happening.
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
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Yeah, this ain't happening.
another nugget of wisdom from our resident inside source
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We would have to hope that our turnover creation is good enough to make up for that. There would be a ton of steals, blocks and forced bad passes. They could potentially be like the Nuggets except even less shooting.
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
???
Rondo and Deandre are excellent in fg% and Josh Smith is at 47% for his career even with increased shot volume. I get that they aren't all necessarily the best outside shooters, but in fg% I would fully expect to be near the top of my league with these three on my roster.
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I have no idea why we let Doc Rivers go without getting something really valuable for him. He's a great coach (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/doc-rivers-coach-players-most-want-to-play-for-stan-van-gundy-not-so-much/) and players love him.
KG/Doc for DJ/1st is not enough to give up our coach. It's actually barely enough for KG alone as far as I'm concerned. DJ is a bad contract for his contributions. His playoff #s are horrid. His coach wouldn't play him more than 25 minutes in the playoffs and opted for Odom and Turiaf in place of him. This is actually a pattern from year to year which indicates he's not getting much better.
I hope the C's don't settle.
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
???
Rondo and Deandre are excellent in fg% and Josh Smith is at 47% for his career even with increased shot volume. I get that they aren't all necessarily the best outside shooters, but in fg% I would fully expect to be near the top of my league with these three on my roster.
normally yes, but if these guys are all on the same lineup then teams will pack the paint and force them to shoot jumpers
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
???
Rondo and Deandre are excellent in fg% and Josh Smith is at 47% for his career even with increased shot volume. I get that they aren't all necessarily the best outside shooters, but in fg% I would fully expect to be near the top of my league with these three on my roster.
The question would be can they get the same high% shots on a team bereft of shooters to space the floor?
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
???
Rondo and Deandre are excellent in fg% and Josh Smith is at 47% for his career even with increased shot volume. I get that they aren't all necessarily the best outside shooters, but in fg% I would fully expect to be near the top of my league with these three on my roster.
The question would be can they get the same high% shots on a team bereft of shooters to space the floor?
yep, that's my concern
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What if we could alleviate the offensive problems by making another trade as well.
Alter the Smith trade to be Bledsoe, Bass and Lee for Smith
And Pierce and Bradley to NO for Eric Gordon.
Shoot for a big in the draft to pair with Sully as front court depth, and see if we can't recruit a couple of decent bench scorers to pair with Crawford and TWill.
Jordan, Smith, Green, Gordon, and Rondo is a good starting five that could play good D and put some points on the board. I'm probably putting too much value on our guys, but that NOs trade was rumored before and the hawks may take what they can get on a sign and trade. They would be getting their guy, Bledsoe.
All this means nothing, though, if the Clipper deal doesn't happen or doesn't include Bledsoe.
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
???
Rondo and Deandre are excellent in fg% and Josh Smith is at 47% for his career even with increased shot volume. I get that they aren't all necessarily the best outside shooters, but in fg% I would fully expect to be near the top of my league with these three on my roster.
The question would be can they get the same high% shots on a team bereft of shooters to space the floor?
yep, that's my concern
On the bright side THE DUNKS! THE BLOCKS! BASKETS AT THE RIM! OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS!
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
???
Rondo and Deandre are excellent in fg% and Josh Smith is at 47% for his career even with increased shot volume. I get that they aren't all necessarily the best outside shooters, but in fg% I would fully expect to be near the top of my league with these three on my roster.
The question would be can they get the same high% shots on a team bereft of shooters to space the floor?
yep, that's my concern
Ughhh, I was simply responding to the claim that having those three on a fantasy team would be punting fg%. In real life, the concern is totally valid, although I don't doubt Rondo's ability to create and get into the paint.
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why does Atlanta want Bledsoe when they already have Teague?
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
???
Rondo and Deandre are excellent in fg% and Josh Smith is at 47% for his career even with increased shot volume. I get that they aren't all necessarily the best outside shooters, but in fg% I would fully expect to be near the top of my league with these three on my roster.
The question would be can they get the same high% shots on a team bereft of shooters to space the floor?
yep, that's my concern
On the bright side THE DUNKS! THE BLOCKS! BASKETS AT THE RIM! OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS!
Rebounds?? I forgot what those look like!
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Yeah, this ain't happening.
another nugget of wisdom from our resident inside source
TP
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why does Atlanta want Bledsoe when they already have Teague?
Yea this is a great point; Teague is a great player, I wish we could have him.
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Not to fare fetched , I could also see Bledsoe flipped for milsap
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Not to fare fetched , I could also see Bledsoe flipped for milsap
that's actually a great idea and a very real possibility. The celtics have had interest in Milsap, and the Jazz need a PG and won't keep all of their PFs
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Rondo, Smith and Jordan on the same team is like tanking the ft% category in fantasy.
and the FG% category
???
Rondo and Deandre are excellent in fg% and Josh Smith is at 47% for his career even with increased shot volume. I get that they aren't all necessarily the best outside shooters, but in fg% I would fully expect to be near the top of my league with these three on my roster.
The question would be can they get the same high% shots on a team bereft of shooters to space the floor?
yep, that's my concern
On the bright side THE DUNKS! THE BLOCKS! BASKETS AT THE RIM! OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS!
NO!!!!!!!!!
GET BACK ON DEFENSE AND RUN THE OFFENSE!
;D
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Not to fare fetched , I could also see Bledsoe flipped for milsap
Good call, I'm not sure that makes the team any better than a six seed next year.
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I just listened to the podcast... it was just Simmons coming up with an idea. He pointed out he didn't have any inside info he was just coming up with an interesting option as he always does.
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Another shooter we can look to is Redick. DA had interest in him at the deadline and he would probably be a good fit.
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Another shooter we can look to is Redick. DA had interest in him at the deadline and he would probably be a good fit.
Hopefully not. We have Lee already.
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Another shooter we can look to is Redick. DA had interest in him at the deadline and he would probably be a good fit.
Hopefully not. We have Lee already.
I am assuming Lee goes somewhere in one of the 3 hypothetical trades proposed. LAC, ATL or NO
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If Ainge wants to flip Bledsoe in another trade, perhaps that means that Ainge is very unwilling to part with either Bradley or Sullinger as that young player that other teams ask for in a trade.
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I don't think the deal will ever happen ( Bledsoe ) to Celtics . Clippers don't have the balls to do it and then risk Cp3 not sign and go with DH somewhere else .
CP3 is not going to commit to just DOC and KG at LAC , before DH's destination is more apparent ........
DH is the more atractive partner for CP3 ........ so I believe Clippers will first try and land DH12 with Griffin and Bledsoe trade and Hollns as their coach......if this is rejected by Lakers .....which I believe will happen ...they let DH walk away. DH and CP 3 disappear from LA town to TEXAS
then Clippers lose CP3 to who ever gets DH.....most likey
Doc becomes a TV commentator (good riddance ) , falls out of love with Celtics for a long time...
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If the Celts really want Josh Smith, why don't they (and I know this isn't very likely) just use either Pierce, KG and/or both in a deal to Atlanta for a sign and trade of Smith.
Maybe Atlanta also adds in another player or two (Pachulia, Lou Williams) to even out the salaries if both Pierce and KG are traded?
Wouldn't KG waive his no trade clause if he gets dealt to the same team with Pierce?
And here in Boston you have that Rondo/Smith pairing along with Josh Smith. I also do think Lou Williams is a great player and would be a great addition to a "rebuilding" Celtic team
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If the Celts really want Josh Smith, why don't they (and I know this isn't very likely) just use either Pierce, KG and/or both in a deal to Atlanta for a sign and trade of Smith.
Atlanta would want draft picks or young players in return, not Pierce and KG. If that's Ainge's plan, it's probably because he doesn't want to trade Sullinger or Bradley with Pierce.
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i think its bigger than that. not only does danny believe in sully and bradley, but both provide way more value than their rookie contract salaries imply.
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i think its bigger than that. not only does danny believe in sully and bradley, but both provide way more value than their rookie contract salaries imply. theyre both starter caliber on rookie contracts, you got to keep those types of players for flexability.
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If we did get Josh Smith we'd essentially have to make him a Lebron prototype taking the majority of his shots around the rim.
He just cannot shoot. His stats are almost identical to his rookie season. The difference is when he was a rookie and 2nd/3rd year player, the majority of his shots were around the rim and in the paint- he'd get more offensive rebounds and more putbacks.
He's basically gotten much better as a player but his efficiency has dropped terribly because of his shot selection. I always had no idea why Larry Drew let him take so many jumpshots...may be to let Al Horford have space in the paint but it just didn't make sense.
Smith is like Dwight Howard but he's shooting jumpshots.
If we can get him to stay in the paint or even put him at center it could work. Make him rebound and get putbacks/easy looks from Rondo.
Anyway, here's his jumpshooting stats over his career. Just gastly...
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Josh%20Smith
I really don't know what he'd bring to the team unless we keep him as a KG replacement without the jumpshot and more finishing/strength around the rim. His defense and basket protection is good but his defensive awareness and help still need fixing. It would be great to have KG to guide him for a season or two. I guess he can sprint the floor with Green and Rondo which would be a high flyers club.
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I always had no idea why Larry Drew let him take so many jumpshots...may be to let Al Horford have space in the paint but it just didn't make sense.
Because benching him doesn't work and Smith is simply better than his backups.
If Josh Smith had been a Celtic this past season, rebounding like a hoss and taking too many bad jumpshots, how many games would you have tolerated Doc benching Smith and playing Bass for 30+ minutes?
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I'd prefer to keep Bledsoe. I think he and Jordan could be really solid players if given the opportunity... especially alongside Rondo and Green. We would run like mad, and Bledsoe is such a nice back-up PG that we have lacked for years.
If you watch highlight reels of these guys, their athleticism is off the charts. Bledsoe literally makes no sense physically - he's absurd. That's exactly what you're looking for in a rebuild... they're exciting now, assets for the future, and both have potential to be groomed into good players
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I'd prefer to keep Bledsoe. I think he and Jordan could be really solid players if given the opportunity... especially alongside Rondo and Green. We would run like mad, and Bledsoe is such a nice back-up PG that we have lacked for years.
If you watch highlight reels of these guys, their athleticism is off the charts. Bledsoe literally makes no sense physically - he's absurd. That's exactly what you're looking for in a rebuild... they're exciting now, assets for the future, and both have potential to be groomed into very good players
I agree with most of what youre saying about Bledsoe and Jordan. However i dont think the ultimate plan is to keep him as a backup. With guys like this you basically have the chance to get a grasp of how good they can be behind closed doors in your training facility.
Bledsoe is touted by other GM's as a starting caliber star point guatd and this is why Danny wants him. He'll see if theyre right. But if it ends up that they are wrong, then he'll make surehis value and intrigue are still high and he's still desirable in future trade moves...he's brilliant at doing this with athletic 'potential' and guys like Jordan and Bledsoe at Boston will just look so much better because of how we make their strengths shine through and hide their weaknesses.
Case in point: kendrick perkins(defensively), tony allen, gerald green and a few more.
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I don't think Ainge would tie up our cap space to build a 5th-7th seed non-contender. I'm not buying this. I do think that this trade is about building traders assets though.
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I don't really like the idea of making this trade and then immediately going out and bringing in a max guy. I think thats a recipe for the 5-8th seed and mediocrity again.
I think the best thing we can do is collect these assets, move out all of veteran contracts and take next year to develop our young talent to see who can be useful for us going forward, what players fit together etc. I don't advocate for tanking, but ideally we would end up in the lottery to get another solid talent to add to the group. From there we start scouring the market looking for teams that are going to be losing their stars in free agency (Love/Aldrige etc) and try to put together a package with enough young talent that we can bring one in to pair with whoever stands out next year (whether that is Green/Rondo/Sully or Bledsoe and our picks or whatever).
I'm not going to say that a team as athletic as the one Bill Simmons suggested we might be attempting to put together isn't going to be able to win, especially given the youth and upside, but I don't think its going to vault us to contender status. Its rare to have that kind of quick fix.
If we are rebuilding, I want to see patience from the front office and hopefully we can take advantage of other teams' urgency (just like we would be with this LAC trade).
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Yeah, flipping Bledsoe to Atlanta to get Smith doesn't make a lot of sense to me when they have Teague. I also agree with others that Jordan and Smith can't coexist in the frontcourt because they have no range and poor FTs.
Getting Bledsoe to trade with Utah makes way more sense to me. They have a glut of nice bigs and have gone nowhere because their backcourt stinks. If we can offer them Bledsoe and Lee and perhaps cap relief via Pierce's contract, I think we can definitely get Millsap and perhaps even Big Al (I mean one or the other).
If the Celtics could convince KG to play one more year, you could run most of the season with Big Al, Sully and Bass taking most of the minutes, then break out a fresh KG for the post-season.
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Yeah, flipping Bledsoe to Atlanta to get Smith doesn't make a lot of sense to me when they have Teague. I also agree with others that Jordan and Smith can't coexist in the frontcourt because they have no range and poor FTs.
Getting Bledsoe to trade with Utah makes way more sense to me. They have a glut of nice bigs and have gone nowhere because their backcourt stinks. If we can offer them Bledsoe and Lee and perhaps cap relief via Pierce's contract, I think we can definitely get Millsap and perhaps even Big Al (I mean one or the other).
If the Celtics could convince KG to play one more year, you could run most of the season with Big Al, Sully and Bass taking most of the minutes, then break out a fresh KG for the post-season.
You can't break out a fresh KG for the post-season if he's playing for the Clippers.