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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: cman88 on June 16, 2013, 02:45:45 PM

Title: If this is our team next year
Post by: cman88 on June 16, 2013, 02:45:45 PM
Rondo/Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green/Butler
Sullinger/Bass
Jordan/Melo

honestly, that team has enough talent to be a playoff team with the right coaching and if they buy into defense...but most likely they are a first or second round exit..

that team needs a #2 or #1(depending on what you consider rondo) scorer
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on June 16, 2013, 02:50:04 PM
Badly needs a shooter though. But yes they could make the playoffs for sure. If we could snag Korver then would be fun to watch. Give me George Karl as the coach.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: LarBrd33 on June 16, 2013, 02:50:24 PM
it would win 25-38 games.

If Rondo struggles coming back from his injury, the team could win less than 25.

... which is the entire point.  Boston wants to tank for a top pick in 2014.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: cman88 on June 16, 2013, 02:52:17 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

I dont see it.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: CelticsFan9 on June 16, 2013, 02:56:17 PM
That team would contend for the 7th or 8th seed in the East.

Which would suck because the whole point of making the trade is to start over and rebuild.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: LarBrd33 on June 16, 2013, 03:32:27 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

Yes.  I think that's the point... full-blown tank mode.

That roster has like one effective scorer in Jeff Green.  Sully and Bradley are insanely overrated here.  Both are basically bench players.  Bradley is going to get exposed as a starting SG... dude is way too small.  Sully is a nice little role player.  You're losing the epicenter of our defense in KG and replacing him with some 25 year old overpaid stiff who averaged 4 points, 6 rebounds and a block in the playoffs.  You're replacing the only guy who can create his own shot (Pierce) with... someone to back up Rondo?  Team would be awful.  Ceiling on that team is 38 wins and a sweep in the first round.   People forget that we were below .500 before Rondo went out with an injury.   We're probably missing the playoffs regardless of what we do.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: lightspeed5 on June 16, 2013, 03:34:39 PM
i havent seen butler for pierce in any of the trade talks.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on June 16, 2013, 03:39:35 PM
Trade Avery Bradley for Brandon Rush to get a shooter. I think that's a solid 6-8 seed team in the East with full of promise.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2013, 03:41:44 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

Yes.  I think that's the point... full-blown tank mode.

That roster has like one effective scorer in Jeff Green.  Sully and Bradley are insanely overrated here.  Both are basically bench players.  Bradley is going to get exposed as a starting SG... dude is way too small.  Sully is a nice little role player.  You're losing the epicenter of our defense in KG and replacing him with some 25 year old overpaid stiff who averaged 4 points, 6 rebounds and a block in the playoffs.  You're replacing the only guy who can create his own shot (Pierce) with... someone to back up Rondo?  Team would be awful.  Ceiling on that team is 38 wins and a sweep in the first round.   People forget that we were below .500 before Rondo went out with an injury.   We're probably missing the playoffs regardless of what we do.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round won't get us Wiggins. 
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: LarBrd33 on June 16, 2013, 03:43:01 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

Yes.  I think that's the point... full-blown tank mode.

That roster has like one effective scorer in Jeff Green.  Sully and Bradley are insanely overrated here.  Both are basically bench players.  Bradley is going to get exposed as a starting SG... dude is way too small.  Sully is a nice little role player.  You're losing the epicenter of our defense in KG and replacing him with some 25 year old overpaid stiff who averaged 4 points, 6 rebounds and a block in the playoffs.  You're replacing the only guy who can create his own shot (Pierce) with... someone to back up Rondo?  Team would be awful.  Ceiling on that team is 38 wins and a sweep in the first round.   People forget that we were below .500 before Rondo went out with an injury.   We're probably missing the playoffs regardless of what we do.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round won't get us Wiggins.
How wonderfully observant of you.  Way to go.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round would be the ceiling of the team.  Note that I'm careful not to call that "best case scenario", because I fail to see how winning 38 games and getting our butts handed to us in round 1 would qualify as "best case".  The more likely scenario is that we'd win a lot less than that, miss the playoffs and have a shot at lotto gold.  And if they let Rondo take his sweet time coming back, we could win less than 25. 

PG - Rondo, SG - Bradly, SF - Green, PF - Sully, C - Jordan... that's a pretty dreadful lineup.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2013, 03:46:03 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

Yes.  I think that's the point... full-blown tank mode.

That roster has like one effective scorer in Jeff Green.  Sully and Bradley are insanely overrated here.  Both are basically bench players.  Bradley is going to get exposed as a starting SG... dude is way too small.  Sully is a nice little role player.  You're losing the epicenter of our defense in KG and replacing him with some 25 year old overpaid stiff who averaged 4 points, 6 rebounds and a block in the playoffs.  You're replacing the only guy who can create his own shot (Pierce) with... someone to back up Rondo?  Team would be awful.  Ceiling on that team is 38 wins and a sweep in the first round.   People forget that we were below .500 before Rondo went out with an injury.   We're probably missing the playoffs regardless of what we do.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round won't get us Wiggins.
How wonderfully observant of you.  Way to go.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round would be the ceiling of the team.   More likely they win a lot less than that.  And if they let Rondo take his sweet time coming back, we could win less than 25.

Ouch, the snarkiness!!

I'll be pulling for at least three or four wins above your ceiling, and at least another round in the playoffs. 
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: LarBrd33 on June 16, 2013, 03:48:08 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

Yes.  I think that's the point... full-blown tank mode.

That roster has like one effective scorer in Jeff Green.  Sully and Bradley are insanely overrated here.  Both are basically bench players.  Bradley is going to get exposed as a starting SG... dude is way too small.  Sully is a nice little role player.  You're losing the epicenter of our defense in KG and replacing him with some 25 year old overpaid stiff who averaged 4 points, 6 rebounds and a block in the playoffs.  You're replacing the only guy who can create his own shot (Pierce) with... someone to back up Rondo?  Team would be awful.  Ceiling on that team is 38 wins and a sweep in the first round.   People forget that we were below .500 before Rondo went out with an injury.   We're probably missing the playoffs regardless of what we do.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round won't get us Wiggins.
How wonderfully observant of you.  Way to go.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round would be the ceiling of the team.   More likely they win a lot less than that.  And if they let Rondo take his sweet time coming back, we could win less than 25.

Ouch, the snarkiness!!

I'll be pulling for at least three or four wins above your ceiling, and at least another round in the playoffs.

Would you sincerely rather make the playoffs with 41 wins, have zero shot at a title, and get stuck with the 16th pick in the draft... just prolonging our mediocrity...  or would you rather tank the season and land a top 5 pick with a tiny bit of potential of landing Boston's next franchise player?  I'd strongly prefer tanking.

Poorly kept secret... in 2007, we were intentionally trying to lose games.  Pierce was told to stay home.  Doc was told to throw games and force-feed minutes to young players to showcase them and improve their trade value.  Doc was 100% a company man... doing what was best for the health of the team.  There's a reason why he wasn't fired after the horrible season... he was just doing what Ainge asked of him.   Ainge is basically asking him to do the same thing this year.  The problem is, Doc's a big time coach at this point with big time credibility throughout the league.  I can't seem him coaching another intentionally bad season when so many teams would to have him at the helm of a legit contender.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: LarBrd33 on June 16, 2013, 03:51:41 PM
double post
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: Birdman on June 16, 2013, 03:57:21 PM
Paul Millsap
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: MVPPierceNoJoke on June 16, 2013, 03:58:07 PM
If this is the team, expect to see Jeff Green averaging close to 22 ppg around 42% shooting. Also we have to account for our pick who would have to be a rotation player with this current lineup.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: SHAQATTACK on June 16, 2013, 04:03:32 PM
Paul Millsap


yup......there will be trades of some sort to get him if the a clips send Bledsoe

some bodies getting traded for another Big....... Rondo for Cousins,  Milsap or something shakes down ......I can just. feell it coming
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2013, 04:03:56 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

Yes.  I think that's the point... full-blown tank mode.

That roster has like one effective scorer in Jeff Green.  Sully and Bradley are insanely overrated here.  Both are basically bench players.  Bradley is going to get exposed as a starting SG... dude is way too small.  Sully is a nice little role player.  You're losing the epicenter of our defense in KG and replacing him with some 25 year old overpaid stiff who averaged 4 points, 6 rebounds and a block in the playoffs.  You're replacing the only guy who can create his own shot (Pierce) with... someone to back up Rondo?  Team would be awful.  Ceiling on that team is 38 wins and a sweep in the first round.   People forget that we were below .500 before Rondo went out with an injury.   We're probably missing the playoffs regardless of what we do.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round won't get us Wiggins.
How wonderfully observant of you.  Way to go.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round would be the ceiling of the team.   More likely they win a lot less than that.  And if they let Rondo take his sweet time coming back, we could win less than 25.

Ouch, the snarkiness!!

I'll be pulling for at least three or four wins above your ceiling, and at least another round in the playoffs.

Would you sincerely rather make the playoffs with 41 wins, have zero shot at a title, and get stuck with the 16th pick in the draft... just prolonging our mediocrity...  or would you rather tank the season and land a top 5 pick with a tiny bit of potential of landing Boston's next franchise player?  I'd strongly prefer tanking.

Poorly kept secret... in 2007, we were intentionally trying to lose games.  Pierce was told to stay home.  Doc was told to throw games and force-feed minutes to young players to showcase them and improve their trade value.  Doc was 100% a company man... doing what was best for the health of the team.  There's a reason why he wasn't fired after the horrible season... he was just doing what Ainge asked of him.   Ainge is basically asking him to do the same thing this year.  The problem is, Doc's a big time coach at this point with big time credibility throughout the league.  I can't seem him coaching another intentionally bad season when so many teams would to have him at the helm of a legit contender.

Yes.  I'd highly prefer winning 41 games and losing in the first round to intentionally losing games to try for a top two lottery pick. 

By the way, while we are making predictions with 13 win differences, mine is 33 to 46--that's with the current roster, minus KG.  Once we see what the roster looks like going into the season, I may re-adjust my "prediction."
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: LarBrd33 on June 16, 2013, 04:11:25 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

Yes.  I think that's the point... full-blown tank mode.

That roster has like one effective scorer in Jeff Green.  Sully and Bradley are insanely overrated here.  Both are basically bench players.  Bradley is going to get exposed as a starting SG... dude is way too small.  Sully is a nice little role player.  You're losing the epicenter of our defense in KG and replacing him with some 25 year old overpaid stiff who averaged 4 points, 6 rebounds and a block in the playoffs.  You're replacing the only guy who can create his own shot (Pierce) with... someone to back up Rondo?  Team would be awful.  Ceiling on that team is 38 wins and a sweep in the first round.   People forget that we were below .500 before Rondo went out with an injury.   We're probably missing the playoffs regardless of what we do.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round won't get us Wiggins.
How wonderfully observant of you.  Way to go.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round would be the ceiling of the team.   More likely they win a lot less than that.  And if they let Rondo take his sweet time coming back, we could win less than 25.

Ouch, the snarkiness!!

I'll be pulling for at least three or four wins above your ceiling, and at least another round in the playoffs.

Would you sincerely rather make the playoffs with 41 wins, have zero shot at a title, and get stuck with the 16th pick in the draft... just prolonging our mediocrity...  or would you rather tank the season and land a top 5 pick with a tiny bit of potential of landing Boston's next franchise player?  I'd strongly prefer tanking.

Poorly kept secret... in 2007, we were intentionally trying to lose games.  Pierce was told to stay home.  Doc was told to throw games and force-feed minutes to young players to showcase them and improve their trade value.  Doc was 100% a company man... doing what was best for the health of the team.  There's a reason why he wasn't fired after the horrible season... he was just doing what Ainge asked of him.   Ainge is basically asking him to do the same thing this year.  The problem is, Doc's a big time coach at this point with big time credibility throughout the league.  I can't seem him coaching another intentionally bad season when so many teams would to have him at the helm of a legit contender.

Yes.  I'd highly prefer winning 41 games and losing in the first round to intentionally losing games to try for a top two lottery pick. 

By the way, while we are making predictions with 13 win differences, mine is 33 to 46--that's with the current roster, minus KG.  Once we see what the roster looks like going into the season, I may re-adjust my "prediction."
Cool.  I guess you enjoy rooting for a perpetually mediocre franchise.  Different strokes, I guess.  I wasn't a huge fan of the Walker/Pierce Celtics.  It wasn't that much fun rooting for a team that too bad to win anything and too good to land a savior in the draft.   It wasn't until 2007 when we intentionally tanked that we finally allowed ourselves to bottom out and give ourselves a 3.5 year window of contention.  Now it's back to the dregs of mediocrity.  No thanks.  I want more from the Celtics than to just be on a par with some dumpy franchise like the Bucks.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: D.o.s. on June 16, 2013, 04:20:37 PM
you really thnk that team has so little talent that they would win only 25games?

Yes.  I think that's the point... full-blown tank mode.

That roster has like one effective scorer in Jeff Green.  Sully and Bradley are insanely overrated here.  Both are basically bench players.  Bradley is going to get exposed as a starting SG... dude is way too small.  Sully is a nice little role player.  You're losing the epicenter of our defense in KG and replacing him with some 25 year old overpaid stiff who averaged 4 points, 6 rebounds and a block in the playoffs.  You're replacing the only guy who can create his own shot (Pierce) with... someone to back up Rondo?  Team would be awful.  Ceiling on that team is 38 wins and a sweep in the first round.   People forget that we were below .500 before Rondo went out with an injury.   We're probably missing the playoffs regardless of what we do.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round won't get us Wiggins.
How wonderfully observant of you.  Way to go.

38 wins and a sweep in the first round would be the ceiling of the team.   More likely they win a lot less than that.  And if they let Rondo take his sweet time coming back, we could win less than 25.

Ouch, the snarkiness!!

I'll be pulling for at least three or four wins above your ceiling, and at least another round in the playoffs.

Would you sincerely rather make the playoffs with 41 wins, have zero shot at a title, and get stuck with the 16th pick in the draft... just prolonging our mediocrity...  or would you rather tank the season and land a top 5 pick with a tiny bit of potential of landing Boston's next franchise player?  I'd strongly prefer tanking.

Poorly kept secret... in 2007, we were intentionally trying to lose games.  Pierce was told to stay home.  Doc was told to throw games and force-feed minutes to young players to showcase them and improve their trade value.  Doc was 100% a company man... doing what was best for the health of the team.  There's a reason why he wasn't fired after the horrible season... he was just doing what Ainge asked of him.   Ainge is basically asking him to do the same thing this year.  The problem is, Doc's a big time coach at this point with big time credibility throughout the league.  I can't seem him coaching another intentionally bad season when so many teams would to have him at the helm of a legit contender.

Yes.  I'd highly prefer winning 41 games and losing in the first round to intentionally losing games to try for a top two lottery pick. 

By the way, while we are making predictions with 13 win differences, mine is 33 to 46--that's with the current roster, minus KG.  Once we see what the roster looks like going into the season, I may re-adjust my "prediction."
Cool.  I guess you enjoy rooting for a perpetually mediocre franchise.  Different strokes, I guess.  I wasn't a huge fan of the Walker/Pierce Celtics.  It wasn't that much fun rooting for a team that too bad to win anything and too good to land a savior in the draft.   It wasn't until 2007 when we intentionally tanked that we finally allowed ourselves to bottom out and give ourselves a 3.5 year window of contention.  Now it's back to the dregs of mediocrity.  No thanks.  I want more from the Celtics than to just be on a par with some dumpy franchise like the Bucks.

While the Pierce Walker Celtics weren't a great team, they were a lot of fun. That ECF run was thrilling at the time.

Now, of course, changing expectations and all that, I think we've come to view making the ECF as par for the course for this team.

Personally, if this it it, so it goes. I'd love to see Pierce and KG retire in green, but that's my selfish fandom, and if they want to keep competing instead of hanging it up they'll almost certainly have to do it somewhere else.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: Evantime34 on June 16, 2013, 04:25:41 PM
That team at best is a 7 or 8 seed, depending on how quick and how well Rondo gets back, how well the young players improve and if we are able to get anything out of our rookies.

Assuming we are able to get rid of two of Terry, Lee and Bass we will have cap space after the 2014 season. Some of you have said you can't see the upside of a first round exit. To me the upside is if that young core plays well they are more likely to be able to draw a good free agent.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: fantankerous on June 16, 2013, 05:00:27 PM
I think 25-38 wins is overly optimistic.  That team would be Bobcats bad.  Less than 30 wins for sure.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: Celtics18 on June 16, 2013, 05:26:27 PM
I think 25-38 wins is overly optimistic.  That team would be Bobcats bad.  Less than 30 wins for sure.

Are you taking 16 to 29, then? 
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: nostar on June 16, 2013, 05:38:26 PM
I'm coming around to the rebuild mindset finally  but I don't think I'll let Doc go unless we get Bledsoe AND a 1st round pick from LAC. DJ, Bledsoe and a 1st gets it done for me. Doc is a REALLY good selling point to FAs and that is worth it's weight in gold in the NBA. Oh yeah and he's the coach our moody PG loves so it's a fair assumption that if Doc goes then Rondo is probably on the block too.

I'd also trade PP to a team wanting to clear space for Howard (Dallas or Houston probably). For example, Marion/Carter/Collison and the 16th. If they waive PP that saves them 10M this year and puts them in the FA market for Howard as well as letting PP go where he pleases.

Then we dive and try to get Parker or Wiggins. I'm fine watching my team tank for a year or even two. It's better than pulling a Utah Jazz and sneaking in playoffs or barely missing and letting their roster deteriorate over the last decade (or two). Remember the one year they tanked at 27 wins they got Derron Williams...

Less than a month ago I wanted to run it back and add a reasonably good post PF (Millsap, Smith, West). Now I'm seeing the end coming like a freight train and I'm sort of trying to find a way to hop on without being splattered. We'll see what happens but I hope we don't end up in limbo like we were post-Bird.

My point for this post is that the rosters listed in the previous posts probably won't be accurate come January. If we move Doc, KG and PP then we're probably moving Terry and Rondo too.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: Celtics4ever on June 16, 2013, 07:11:57 PM
Quote
Rondo/Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green/Butler
Sullinger/Bass
Jordan/Melo

If we get Bledsoe, then Bradley won't be the starter. 

Quote
Marion/Carter/Collison and the 16th.

Why would you want to get this old?  Thank heavens your not our GM.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: aporel#18 on June 16, 2013, 10:15:25 PM
Quote
Rondo/Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green/Butler
Sullinger/Bass
Jordan/Melo

If we get Bledsoe, then Bradley won't be the starter. 

Quote
Marion/Carter/Collison and the 16th.

Why would you want to get this old?  Thank heavens your not our GM.

If they trade KG and Pierce, Rondo will be recovering at least until the All Star Game. I doubt Bledsoe will play a single game for the Cs even if the Clippers send him, because he might be at the top of his trade value, and Danny would flip him as soon as he could.

About Marion and VC, they would be traded also for trade exceptions/picks/young players ASAP. VC to the Grizzlies for Ed Davis could be interesting, and Marion could have value to a team trying to contend/save money. The Dallas pick, #13 this year, could be also help the Cs. Not a bad trade.
Title: Re: If this is our team next year
Post by: CelticConcourse on June 16, 2013, 10:17:01 PM
Rondo/Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green/Butler
Sullinger/Bass
Jordan/Melo

honestly, that team has enough talent to be a playoff team with the right coaching and if they buy into defense...but most likely they are a first or second round exit..

that team needs a #2 or #1(depending on what you consider rondo) scorer

No Terry?!?