CelticsStrong
CelticsStrong => Community => Topic started by: badshar on June 13, 2013, 06:26:04 PM
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I have typed everything in this message (other than the content in that link in the bottom) and would appreciate if you read the entire thing and not leave off in the middle. Thanks! :)
Hello all,
I am writing today because there are many of us Celtic fans that absolutely hate LeBron James. I'll be honest. I used to like him as a player and I supported him in his decision to leave Cleveland even though he was one of the biggest rivals of my team. I supported him in discussions with my friends, some who were Heat fans too. I cheered for him up until his dunk on Jason Terry. I had no opinion until what he said afterwards (something along the lines of "He deserved it.") I started to dislike him after that and have since put down everything that he has accomplished. Today I read an article (I will share the link below) which made me think to myself, is criticizing him for everything he has done correct? We are all witnessing a legend, who the future generations will look back in the same way like we do for Bill Russel, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Julius Erving and many others. These are all known as very good players and as legends and 10-20 years from now, when the future generations look back, they will see LeBron as one of the greatest to ever play. People will wish they could see him play, just like we wish we could see players like Bill Russel, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and others play.
This was more than enough for me to let go of my dislike embrace him for how good of a player he is. He will always be our rival and when the C's play him, we don't have to support him and cheer for him, but we can appreciate him for who he is.
LeBron has grown up a ton before our eyes. We saw him giving into the pressure against the Spurs in 2007 Finals. We saw him carrying his team and taking us to 7 games all by himself in 2008. We saw him giving up in 2010 against us. We saw him being fed up and eventually teaming up with Wade and Bosh to win a championship. We saw him making a big mistake of doing the whole "The Decision" saga on live TV. Many people blamed him and put him down for it, but they completely ignored that he raised around $2 million out of it, all for charity. We then saw him have that collapse again in the 2011 Finals as well as make fun of Dirk by coughing in front of a camera.
After that came the big thing, we saw LeBron take everything much more seriously. He had a ton of refball support, but he carried the team to the Finals. On the way, we witnessed LeBron get over the pressure and post a historic performance in Game 6 against us to keep his team from eliminating. He was able to handle the pressure yet again and carry the team past OKC (who made major mistakes, making it very easy for Heat to beat them). LeBron won his first title.
We all thought that while he had developed the mental strength to handle the pressure and that no one would be able to stop him now, him as well as the team wouldn't have that fire under them again to win another championship. What did we see? LeBron posted a historical season with outstanding numbers. He broke all sorts of records on the way. He went on to sweep the Bucks, had great performance against Chicago and gave his all to beat the Pacers. We are now standing in the Finals, watching LeBron have a not-so-great Finals performance yet again. To many it seems that he doesn't have that will to win again or that his failure to live up to the pressureis coming back, but we all forgetting his all around performance. Game 1: 18 points, 18 rebounds, 10 assists. He had a triple double and grabbed EIGHTEEN boards. Game 2: 17 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists. He didn't have numbers that popped out, but had a plus-minus of +29 for the game. Game 3: 15 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists. He didn't have a very good performance in Game 3, but no one else did either.
The point is that we are watching a legend in his prime. Whether he is better than Kobe or Jordan is a different topic, but we are watching a great player in his prime.
I don't think this is the time to hate, at least hate someone who is that good. When you're the best, you have haters, that's true. But think about it logically. We should appreciate this guy and his talent.
At the end of the day, I can't change any of your opinions, but I can give you a reason for you to change them and I truly think that we should appreciate this guy while we have the privilege to. I can almost guarantee that long after he retires and you hear people wonder how good he was when they read about him and watch his highlights from his prime, that you would wish that you appreciated a legend more in his prime.
Just like Jordan had many haters in his prime, but many people wish today that they could see Jordan play in his prime.
Remember, don't let the situation come to a point where you have to say to yourself: I had the chance, LeBron was in his prime, but I didn't appreciate.
If for nothing else, you can at least brag and tell stories about how you were his fan in his prime and watched every one of his greatest and historic moves in games that people will see on youtube videos a long time from now.
Also, Jordan had a ton of haters, but a ton of fans too. Those fans would be proud to say today that they were fans of Jordan in his prime and watched him as well as got to cheer for him. You wouldn't find many Jordan haters today who would be proud to say that they hated Jordan in his prime and when he did some very amazing things.
I truly hope you guys understood my message.
The link that initially provoked me to appreciate LeBron once again: http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9379958/nba-finals-appreciating-lebron-james-now-future
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I think you can appreciate LeBron and still dislike him. Is LeBron the best player in the NBA today? Yes. Do I think LeBron is ridiculously lame as a person and find his behavior on the court very off-putting? Yes.
Acknowledging his talent and disliking him are not mutually exclusive things. I just find him unlikeable because I think he is not a chill dude at all.
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TP for the effort. I read the whole thing upon your request.
I just want to add that I had the privilege of watching Jordan play a lot in his prime, and I absolutely hated him. I am now showing the same respect for Lebron James and his game by hating him with the same amount of passion.
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TP for the effort. I read the whole thing upon your request.
I just want to add that I had the privilege of watching Jordan play a lot in his prime, and I absolutely hated him. I am now showing the same respect for Lebron James and his game by hating him with the same amount of passion.
Thank you! :)
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If for nothing else, you can at least brag and tell stories about how you were his fan in his prime and watched every one of his greatest and historic moves in games that people will see on youtube videos a long time from now.
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Hate LeBron all you want. I've been watching the nba since well before MJ was in the league, watched a large amount of his games when he played, and never had the slightest urge to tell anyone I was a fan of his.
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I respect his talent and acknowledge that he's a good player, but he's not MY favorite player. I think that's what makes any type of sport more interesting, when you have a team or a player that you root against. Especially when your team isn't playing.
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I think you can appreciate LeBron and still dislike him.
This.
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He is a great player but I absolutely hate him and consider him a punk! Your allowed your opinion and I am allowed mine.
I actually think LeBron will be in talk of all the greatest as well but with an asterik. When someone watches him now there is a digital record of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGsl36MnOqY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16XCffKwFII
rumblefighterhysf 1 year ago
Lebron went south, his hairline went north, and his mom when west
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Lebron's one of my favorite players, but he does do some stuff that is face palm worthy (crying after beating the Cs in the ECF, whining about not getting DPY, etc).
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Good try but I still hate him lol
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He is nothing compared to Larry Legend. And people have the audacity (ESPN im looking at you) to compare him with Larry. Lebron does not have the mental fortitude to do what Larry Legend has done;
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He is nothing compared to Larry Legend. And people have the audacity (ESPN im looking at you) to compare him with Larry. Lebron does not have the mental fortitude to do what Larry Legend has done;
You're misunderstanding me. I meant that he will be in the same conversation of "Legends."
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He is nothing compared to Larry Legend. And people have the audacity (ESPN im looking at you) to compare him with Larry. Lebron does not have the mental fortitude to do what Larry Legend has done;
You're misunderstanding me. I meant that he will be in the same conversation of "Legends."
He is a legendary choker if you ask me.
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He is a legendary choker if you ask me.
Tonight he has to answer the call of destiny either he will conquer or he will be labeled as a choker.
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he's 1-3 in the NBA finals for his career. choker.
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I think this forum is not the proper venue for Lebron Appreciation Day.
I hope Lechoke loses.
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His game changes drastically if the refs are calling things evenly
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He is a legendary choker if you ask me.
Tonight he has to answer the call of destiny either he will conquer or he will be labeled as a choker.
So what if he has a monster triple double with 40+ points, 10+ boards and 10+ assists but his team still loses tonight. What then?
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He still is a choker
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LeBron is the most pampered player of all time.
Stop and consider the officiating tonight. Two seconds into the game they gave the Heat the ball.
They took away Parker's basket by calling the greatest flop of all time - Bosh looked like he was diving into a swimming pool.
On and on and on...
Maybe people hate LeBron because he gets favortism.
If he is so great, he should be able to win while the other team gets favored.
But I have yet to see a game where the Heat are not be favored by the officials.
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Yes he's currently the best in the game but overrated...the coverage he gets is disgusting/disturbing and putting him in the conversation as best ever is seriously disrespectful to legends and winners of the past...when he retires he'll be more wilt then Russell and I'd take Larry bird over him anyday.
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Please watch the video link and consider if LeBron is the all time greatest flopper or not:
http://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-flop-gifs-2013-5
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He is a legendary choker if you ask me.
Tonight he has to answer the call of destiny either he will conquer or he will be labeled as a choker.
So what if he has a monster triple double with 40+ points, 10+ boards and 10+ assists but his team still loses tonight. What then?
"It's not his fault - they don't get him any help!"?
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TP for the effort. I read the whole thing upon your request.
I just want to add that I had the privilege of watching Jordan play a lot in his prime, and I absolutely hated him. I am now showing the same respect for Lebron James and his game by hating him with the same amount of passion.
Haha I am the same, though I hated Jordan a lot more. I guess I am mellowing out in my old age.
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
So, just like every other single legendary title winner? Ok.
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Lebron is a great player, and without him the Heat would probably barely make the playoffs. I don't care what anybody says...Wade is not the player he once was, and Bosh is a rediculously overrated girl-scout who joined the Heat 'big three' because he knew he would never have a hope of leading any team to success on his own.
That said I can't like Lebron. He's a spoiled brat. In all honesty it's partly the leagues fault for handing him everything on a platter...but he's at the point where he's so used to getting foul shots every time sombody breathes on him, that now if someone breathes on him and he DOESN'T get a call he whines about it like a baby. If he takes a 6 step travel and they call it, he whines like a baby. If he commits a dirty foul and they call it, he whines like a baby.
It's like Dwight Howard - the superstars of today are all like attention seeking school kids. All they want is their face on the camera...image is everything. Makes me sick.
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
So, just like every other single legendary title winner? Ok.
no, there's a difference. being traded is not the same as signing as colluding with your other fellow free agents to create a "superteam". He didn't make his own path.
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
So, just like every other single legendary title winner? Ok.
no, there's a difference. being traded is not the same as signing as colluding with your other fellow free agents to create a "superteam". He didn't make his own path.
Always an excuse to knock him?
It's OK when a GM takes advantage of situations and builds a team, but players should never, ever, make decisions based on giving them the best chance to win.
The only mistake was how they announced and acted after the came together.
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
So, just like every other single legendary title winner? Ok.
no, there's a difference. being traded is not the same as signing as colluding with your other fellow free agents to create a "superteam". He didn't make his own path.
Neither did Magic Johnson but no one gives him crap. Magic has said numerous times that if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip he would have gone back to school one more year. He only came out because he wanted to go to the Lakers and play with Kareem.
How about Moses Malone leaving Houston for Philadelphia after a MVP season to team up with Dr. J. Where is the crap for him.
How about Kareem forcing a trade to LA. No one says boo about that.
No one gives Shaq crap for leaving Orlando and going to Los Angeles.
No one said anything when McGrady and Hill teamed up in Orlando (of course Hill getting hurt might have had something to do with it).
The reality is, people just treat James differently then every other super star that has ever played the game. I'm not sure why that is, but it definitely is.
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
So, just like every other single legendary title winner? Ok.
no, there's a difference. being traded is not the same as signing as colluding with your other fellow free agents to create a "superteam". He didn't make his own path.
Neither did Magic Johnson but no one gives him crap. Magic has said numerous times that if the Lakers didn't win the coin flip he would have gone back to school one more year. He only came out because he wanted to go to the Lakers and play with Kareem.
How about Moses Malone leaving Houston for Philadelphia after a MVP season to team up with Dr. J. Where is the crap for him.
How about Kareem forcing a trade to LA. No one says boo about that.
No one gives Shaq crap for leaving Orlando and going to Los Angeles.
No one said anything when McGrady and Hill teamed up in Orlando (of course Hill getting hurt might have had something to do with it).
The reality is, people just treat James differently then every other super star that has ever played the game. I'm not sure why that is, but it definitely is.
The reality is plenty of people made plenty of comments when at least most of those things happened, "No one said anything" isn't at all accurate.
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Is this a plea for us to like LeBron? We can appreciate his talent and what he brings to tha court (minus being pampered for 48 minutes) but we don't have to like him. LeBron is a great player but this game is catered to his style of play. This league is soft now and LeBron will continue to capitalize on it. LeBron isn't stupid. Players can't go at his neck like they were allowed to do in tha 80s and 90s. He knows that.
LeBron has grown and improved over tha years but to me he'll never be looked at in tha same light as Jordan or Kobe. LeBron will go down as one of tha greatest but his legacy is a bit tarnished and he'll never get tha same credit as Jordan or Kobe. Not from me at least. I don't blame LeBron for being a free agent but tha top tier talent of his generation in Wade and Bosh will forever be tied to his success.
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Is this a plea for us to like LeBron? We can appreciate his talent and what he brings to tha court (minus being pampered for 48 minutes) but we don't have to like him. LeBron is a great player but this game is catered to his style of play. This league is soft now and LeBron will continue to capitalize on it. LeBron isn't stupid. Players can't go at his neck like they were allowed to do in tha 80s and 90s. He knows that.
LeBron has grown and improved over tha years but to me he'll never be looked at in tha same light as Jordan or Kobe. LeBron will go down as one of tha greatest but his legacy is a bit tarnished and he'll never get tha same credit as Jordan or Kobe. Not from me at least. I don't blame LeBron for being a free agent but tha top tier talent of his generation in Wade and Bosh will forever be tied to his success.
Maybe James catered his style of play to fit the rules of the game. You know, what great athletes and great players have done since the beginning of time. If the rules were different, James would play differently.
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One does not have to have a reason to dislike; one simply dislikes.
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One can dislike a player (like Kobe) and still understand the talent level.
One can dislike a player for the waste of talent (Blatche, Derrick Coleman)
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His game changes drastically if the refs are calling things evenly
This
I wish I could give you a hundred TPs for this.
TP
The guy is a foul machine, both on offense and defense, The fact that the sterREFS refuse to call him for fouls just makes me hate him more. He has game, but please he is just a one man wrecking crew. He does not have to play like that Vinnie Johnson had more muscle mass than LeBron and he still had a finesse and smoothness to his game. When the chips are down LeBron just puts his head down and runs over people and when the refs refuse to call the fouls there is no way you are going to stop that.
I hate watching him play because I know the other team has no chance when the refs refuse to call him for his charges and blocking fouls.
He is a bully and he should take on folks of his own size and brute on the NFL gridiron.
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
So, just like every other single legendary title winner? Ok.
most of them did not jump, they attracted other players to their teams (Jordan Pierce, Kobe) or moved to other teams with other players at the same time (SHAQ AND Kobe)
LeBron jumped to another star's team, that is not leadership.
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
So, just like every other single legendary title winner? Ok.
no, there's a difference. being traded is not the same as signing as colluding with your other fellow free agents to create a "superteam". He didn't make his own path.
Always an excuse to knock him?
It's OK when a GM takes advantage of situations and builds a team, but players should never, ever, make decisions based on giving them the best chance to win.
The only mistake was how they announced and acted after the came together.
It's perfectly fine, and if that's how he wants to win, then fine. But still, that doesn't do anything for his "legacy". After all, isn't that what we're talking about here? It's the "i can't beat em, so i'll join em" attitude which isn't the stuff legends are made of. Each of those three Heat players came into the league, became allstars and franchise players, and then "jumped ship" in their primes.
sidenote: Shaq went to LA in '96. Yes people were envisioning Kobe to be great, but people seem to be forgetting he was coming off the bench early on in his career.
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he's already considered one of the greats but i think at the end of it all, any legacy he hoped of building was tainted when he jumped ship to Miami. IMO, he'll always be half "multi-MVP winner" and half "had to team up with one of the top 5 SGs and one of the top 5-10 PFs of his generation to win anything".
So, just like every other single legendary title winner? Ok.
no, there's a difference. being traded is not the same as signing as colluding with your other fellow free agents to create a "superteam". He didn't make his own path.
Always an excuse to knock him?
It's OK when a GM takes advantage of situations and builds a team, but players should never, ever, make decisions based on giving them the best chance to win.
The only mistake was how they announced and acted after the came together.
It's perfectly fine, and if that's how he wants to win, then fine. But still, that doesn't do anything for his "legacy". After all, isn't that what we're talking about here? It's the "i can't beat em, so i'll join em" attitude which isn't the stuff legends are made of. Each of those three Heat players came into the league, became allstars and franchise players, and then "jumped ship" in their primes.
sidenote: Shaq went to LA in '96. Yes people were envisioning Kobe to be great, but people seem to be forgetting he was coming off the bench early on in his career.
It's just an inconsistent and illogical argument with exceptions designed to get the answer you want.
KG requested a trade and would only sign an extension after he knew Ray was on board.
PP requested to be traded if they didn't improve
Bird had the other Big Three plus DJ
Magic joined Kareem and got Worthy
Jordan had Pippen and another all-star big (grant or rodman)
Duncan got Robinson then Parker then Ginobili
Russell had multiple HoFers to help him out.
Shaq went to LA then to Miami with Wade.
Kobe's always had one or more of the top 4 bigs in the whole league (titles only with healthy prime shaq or healthy bynum/prime gasol).
Sometimes it's with your original team if your original GM is lucky/good. Sometimes it's another team (KG, LBJ).
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I think you can appreciate LeBron and still dislike him. Is LeBron the best player in the NBA today? Yes. Do I think LeBron is ridiculously lame as a person and find his behavior on the court very off-putting? Yes.
Acknowledging his talent and disliking him are not mutually exclusive things. I just find him unlikeable because I think he is not a chill dude at all.
How can you say he is a lame person? Do you know anything about his personal life? I hate when people do this. They do the same with KG; because he's a punk on the court, people automatically think he's the same off it. Don't act like we know players' personal lives by just looking at how they approach basketball games.
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I don't see anything special about his game. He has a streaky jump shot, he only get points because he can barrel his way down the lane and lay it up. When a good defender can stop him from doing that its really easy to break him mentally and then his jump shot is gone and he won't drop 30. That is why I personally don't think he is as great as everyone says. There is nothing special about him other than the fact that he is huge and coordinated. In my opinion any other person his size and is coordinated could do everything LeBron can. The same cannot be said about Jordan, Kobe, Jerry West, Bill Russel, Kareem, Hakeem and all the greats who have played.
On top of that he doesn't have the clutch gene. Aside from his three from the top of the key while he was in cleveland, I've never seen him hit a buzzer beater to win a game. In my opinion, it is inexcusable for any player who is considered a great to not have the clutch gene. It is different for centers because they don't take buzzer beaters. Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Pierce, KG, Jerry West, all had the ability to win games when it depended on them. I cannot say the same about LeBron. That is why he is not a legend.
Continuing on the topic of clutchness, I've never seen him make a clutch defensive play when the game depended on it. He plays good defense for 3 period making all these "amazing" blocks but when it comes to the fourth quarter, he bits on a pump fake from a 5'11 Frenchman and can't recover to block or contest the shot and they lose the game because of it. On the other hand you have players like Larry Legend making not only clutch shots, but clutch defensive plays like the famous play where he stole the inbound pass from Isaiah and passed it to DJ for the lay in to win the game. LeBron whines about not geting the DPY award when he can't be relied on to guard the other team's best player in the fourth quarter. Again he isn't on the same level as the greats.
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I agree that the favoritism the refs show Lebron is ridiculous. Crooked, even. And most certainly a joke. The best player in the game does not need that kind of help. Thus, tarnished legacy/asterisk.
Seems we'll never know what kind of player LBJ could be on a more level playing-field. And that's a bit sad because it would be so fun to watch how great LBJ could be in that situation.
The NBA is out of control & in the end it may only be hurting the players (at least those not on the Heat.) And the fans, of course. With that said, the officiating in these playoffs has been showing at least a little less favoritism toward Lebron and the Heat. Which is nice.
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he's 1-3 in the NBA finals for his career. choker.
This is a statistical anomaly. At least he got to the Finals. Even if he lost, he got there. Let's say a player wins 6 times but gets there 8 times. He is 6 of 8, but people will say Jordan is better because he never lost in the Finals. Thing is, why didn't he get to the Finals ? It means he lost to the ECF or earlier. At least the other player got to the finals and didn't get bounced out before reaching that stage.
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I agree that the favoritism the refs show Lebron is ridiculous. Crooked, even. And most certainly a joke. The best player in the game does not need that kind of help. Thus, tarnished legacy/asterisk.
Seems we'll never know what kind of player LBJ could be on a more level playing-field. And that's a bit sad because it would be so fun to watch how great LBJ could be in that situation.
The NBA is out of control & in the end it may only be hurting the players (at least those not on the Heat.) And the fans, of course. With that said, the officiating in these playoffs has been showing at least a little less favoritism toward Lebron and the Heat. Which is nice.
You probably didn't watch the 90s. There was Jordan favoritism as well.
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LeBron is the most pampered player of all time.
Stop and consider the officiating tonight. Two seconds into the game they gave the Heat the ball.
They took away Parker's basket by calling the greatest flop of all time - Bosh looked like he was diving into a swimming pool.
On and on and on...
Maybe people hate LeBron because he gets favortism.
If he is so great, he should be able to win while the other team gets favored.
But I have yet to see a game where the Heat are not be favored by the officials.
Jordan was a ref favorite but no one remembers that now.
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he's 1-3 in the NBA finals for his career. choker.
This is a statistical anomaly.
It's also not even true, unless the Heat have somehow already lost this year's finals.
I'm not a fan of LeBron's game but I love basketball and I appreciate what an incredible player he is. Just the fact that making a realistic negative comparison requires talking about guys like Jordan and Bird says volumes about how good he already is. His personality seems kinda crappy but I can't honestly say I wouldn't be at least that arrogant if I'd gotten that kind of adulation and attention from such an early age.
Mostly, though, I don't really care if other people "appreciate" LeBron or whatever, and as Celtics fans we've got every excuse for not liking him. It's just that the constant whining about officials or ludicrous downplaying of his ability (less muscle mass than Vinnie Johnson? ::)) gets really annoying, especially after an ECF where most calls went against Miami and during a really enjoyable Finals when both Heat wins have been semi-blowouts.
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Is this a plea for us to like LeBron? We can appreciate his talent and what he brings to tha court (minus being pampered for 48 minutes) but we don't have to like him. LeBron is a great player but this game is catered to his style of play. This league is soft now and LeBron will continue to capitalize on it. LeBron isn't stupid. Players can't go at his neck like they were allowed to do in tha 80s and 90s. He knows that.
LeBron has grown and improved over tha years but to me he'll never be looked at in tha same light as Jordan or Kobe. LeBron will go down as one of tha greatest but his legacy is a bit tarnished and he'll never get tha same credit as Jordan or Kobe. Not from me at least. I don't blame LeBron for being a free agent but tha top tier talent of his generation in Wade and Bosh will forever be tied to his success.
Maybe James catered his style of play to fit the rules of the game. You know, what great athletes and great players have done since the beginning of time. If the rules were different, James would play differently.
Yeah I'll stick with my first thought. He's already playing at a dominant level. I don't see how he can play much differently than he is now unless he turns strictly into a jump shooter.
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I don't see anything special about his game. He has a streaky jump shot, he only get points because hes big black and buff because he barrels his way down the lane and lay it up. When a good defender can stop him from doing that its really easy to break him mentally and then his jump shot is gone and he won't drop 30. That is why I personally don't think he is as great as everyone says. There is nothing special about him other than the fact that he is huge and coordinated. In my opinion any other person his size and is coordinated could do everything LeBron can. The same cannot be said about Jordan, Kobe, Jerry West, Bill Russel, Kareem, Hakeem and all the greats who have played.
On top of that he doesn't have the clutch gene. Aside from his three from the top of the key while he was in cleveland, I've never seen him hit a buzzer beater to win a game. In my opinion, it is inexcusable for any player who is considered a great to not have the clutch gene. It is different for centers because they don't take buzzer beaters. Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Pierce, KG, Jerry West, all had the ability to win games when it depended on them. I cannot say the same about LeBron. That is why he is not a legend.
Continuing on the topic of clutchness, I've never seen him make a clutch defensive play when the game depended on it. He plays good defense for 3 period making all these "amazing" blocks but when it comes to the fourth quarter, he bits on a pump fake from a 5'11 Frenchman and can't recover to block or contest the shot and they lose the game because of it. On the other hand you have players like Larry Legend making not only clutch shots, but clutch defensive plays like the famous play where he stole the inbound pass from Isaiah and passed it to DJ for the lay in to win the game. LeBron whines about not geting the DPY award when he can't be relied on to guard the other team's best player in the fourth quarter. Again he isn't on the same level as the greats.
Fixed.
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most people that don't like LeBron don't like him bc of who he is as a person. tough to argue that and it is his own fault.
what is the point of the OPs "letter"? yea, lbj is a great player.....but he is still a db.
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Is this a plea for us to like LeBron? We can appreciate his talent and what he brings to tha court (minus being pampered for 48 minutes) but we don't have to like him. LeBron is a great player but this game is catered to his style of play. This league is soft now and LeBron will continue to capitalize on it. LeBron isn't stupid. Players can't go at his neck like they were allowed to do in tha 80s and 90s. He knows that.
LeBron has grown and improved over tha years but to me he'll never be looked at in tha same light as Jordan or Kobe. LeBron will go down as one of tha greatest but his legacy is a bit tarnished and he'll never get tha same credit as Jordan or Kobe. Not from me at least. I don't blame LeBron for being a free agent but tha top tier talent of his generation in Wade and Bosh will forever be tied to his success.
Maybe James catered his style of play to fit the rules of the game. You know, what great athletes and great players have done since the beginning of time. If the rules were different, James would play differently.
Yeah I'll stick with my first thought. He's already playing at a dominant level. I don't see how he can play much differently than he is now unless he turns strictly into a jump shooter.
The NBA was calling games the way it is now before James entered the league. Had they been calling the game like the 80's when James was coming up, his game would have adapted to that style of play, but the current rules are called the "Jordan Rules" for a reason. They aren't called the "James Rules" after all. James is one of the greatest physical specimens to ever play the game of basketball. He would have easily adapted to whatever style of play existed at the time he came into his own. He came up in the Jordan Rules era, which has continued into his era, so that is how he learned to play the game. He would have been fine in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and obviously the 00's and 10's.
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I don't see anything special about his game. He has a streaky jump shot, he only get points because hes big black and buff and can barrel his way down the lane and lay it up.
?!?!?!?!?!
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Is this a plea for us to like LeBron? We can appreciate his talent and what he brings to tha court (minus being pampered for 48 minutes) but we don't have to like him. LeBron is a great player but this game is catered to his style of play. This league is soft now and LeBron will continue to capitalize on it. LeBron isn't stupid. Players can't go at his neck like they were allowed to do in tha 80s and 90s. He knows that.
LeBron has grown and improved over tha years but to me he'll never be looked at in tha same light as Jordan or Kobe. LeBron will go down as one of tha greatest but his legacy is a bit tarnished and he'll never get tha same credit as Jordan or Kobe. Not from me at least. I don't blame LeBron for being a free agent but tha top tier talent of his generation in Wade and Bosh will forever be tied to his success.
Maybe James catered his style of play to fit the rules of the game. You know, what great athletes and great players have done since the beginning of time. If the rules were different, James would play differently.
Yeah I'll stick with my first thought. He's already playing at a dominant level. I don't see how he can play much differently than he is now unless he turns strictly into a jump shooter.
The NBA was calling games the way it is now before James entered the league. Had they been calling the game like the 80's when James was coming up, his game would have adapted to that style of play, but the current rules are called the "Jordan Rules" for a reason. They aren't called the "James Rules" after all. James is one of the greatest physical specimens to ever play the game of basketball. He would have easily adapted to whatever style of play existed at the time he came into his own. He came up in the Jordan Rules era, which has continued into his era, so that is how he learned to play the game. He would have been fine in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and obviously the 00's and 10's.
Don't get what what you were trying to get at with tha Jordan Rules because tha Jordan Rules are much less effective now than when it was established by tha Pistons. One, Spoelstra doesn't run tha Triangle to neutralize tha "Jordan Rules". Two, Tha NBA doesn't allow tha same physicality it did back then to nail LeBron anytime he goes by a player or come off of a screen tha same way tha Pistons did Jordan.
We'll never know how LeBron would fair in any different time or era than now but despite his growth he has shown he can still be broken down. Look at how tha Bulls played him when tha Heat's winning streak ended. Look back at how Kobe played him at tha All Star Game. When tha opposing player is effective, LeBron becomes frustrated. And when he's frustrated, he's shown to be passive. I'm not betting on his physical appearance in any other time than now to be effective or do him any favors if his mental strength doesn't match or exceed his physical strength.
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most people that don't like LeBron don't like him bc of who he is as a person. tough to argue that and it is his own fault.
what is the point of the OPs "letter"? yea, lbj is a great player.....but he is still a db.
Who he is as a person?? lol How do you know how he is off the court? Have you talked to him or hung out with him? nN. You can't determine what kind of a person a player is by the way he is on the court. I heard he gives back to his school and helps the boys and girls club too. So I don't how his game (whining about calls and flopping) lets fans see who he is as a person off the court. I don't think that's how it works.
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most people that don't like LeBron don't like him bc of who he is as a person. tough to argue that and it is his own fault.
what is the point of the OPs "letter"? yea, lbj is a great player.....but he is still a db.
Who he is as a person?? lol How do you know how he is off the court? Have you talked to him or hung out with him? nN. You can't determine what kind of a person a player is by the way he is on the court. I heard he gives back to his school and helps the boys and girls club too. So I don't how his game (whining about calls and flopping) lets fans see who he is as a person off the court. I don't think that's how it works.
TP. Dude gives tons of money to charities, and does a lot of work with schools. Not to mention that The Decision was actually a fundraiser for the boys and girls club.
LBJ is a great player. He's probably not the greatest player I'll ever see, and he's probably not the best person I've ever seen labelled as an athlete. But I harbor no illusions that I have any idea what LeBron (or any other NBA athelete) is actually like as a person, and I think most fans should be more honest with themselves about that.
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he's 1-3 in the NBA finals for his career. choker.
This is a statistical anomaly.
It's also not even true, unless the Heat have somehow already lost this year's finals.
I'm not a fan of LeBron's game but I love basketball and I appreciate what an incredible player he is. Just the fact that making a realistic negative comparison requires talking about guys like Jordan and Bird says volumes about how good he already is. His personality seems kinda crappy but I can't honestly say I wouldn't be at least that arrogant if I'd gotten that kind of adulation and attention from such an early age.
Mostly, though, I don't really care if other people "appreciate" LeBron or whatever, and as Celtics fans we've got every excuse for not liking him. It's just that the constant whining about officials or ludicrous downplaying of his ability (less muscle mass than Vinnie Johnson? ::)) gets really annoying, especially after an ECF where most calls went against Miami and during a really enjoyable Finals when both Heat wins have been semi-blowouts.
i was refferring to lebron in 2007, lebron in 2011, and lebron in 2012.
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he's 1-3 in the NBA finals for his career. choker.
This is a statistical anomaly.
It's also not even true, unless the Heat have somehow already lost this year's finals.
I'm not a fan of LeBron's game but I love basketball and I appreciate what an incredible player he is. Just the fact that making a realistic negative comparison requires talking about guys like Jordan and Bird says volumes about how good he already is. His personality seems kinda crappy but I can't honestly say I wouldn't be at least that arrogant if I'd gotten that kind of adulation and attention from such an early age.
Mostly, though, I don't really care if other people "appreciate" LeBron or whatever, and as Celtics fans we've got every excuse for not liking him. It's just that the constant whining about officials or ludicrous downplaying of his ability (less muscle mass than Vinnie Johnson? ::)) gets really annoying, especially after an ECF where most calls went against Miami and during a really enjoyable Finals when both Heat wins have been semi-blowouts.
i was refferring to lebron in 2007, lebron in 2011, and lebron in 2012.
Might've wanted to type 1/3, or something more similar.
1-3 almost universally suggests four total series.
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LBJ is a great player. He's probably not the greatest player I'll ever see, and he's probably not the best person I've ever seen labelled as an athlete. But I harbor no illusions that I have any idea what LeBron (or any other NBA athelete) is actually like as a person, and I think most fans should be more honest with themselves about that.
I think you can tell a lot from somebody but their comments and actions. That doesn't mean you know him. But you get a sense of their character.
But if you think, these guys don't do some of their actions for image, then your naive.
I think James has been spoiled as a whole. I think he still has maturity issues in light of this but I think he has slowly matured some over time. It is not always easy to grow up in the spotlight playing a game.
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LBJ is a great player. He's probably not the greatest player I'll ever see, and he's probably not the best person I've ever seen labelled as an athlete. But I harbor no illusions that I have any idea what LeBron (or any other NBA athelete) is actually like as a person, and I think most fans should be more honest with themselves about that.
I think you can tell a lot from somebody but their comments and actions. That doesn't mean you know him. But you get a sense of their character.
But if you think, these guys don't do some of their actions for image, then your naive.
I think James has been spoiled as a whole. I think he still has maturity issues in light of this but I think he has slowly matured some over time. It is not always easy to grow up in the spotlight playing a game.
Lebron James has never been in trouble off the court at any level or any time in his life and he had an incredibly difficult upbringing (no father, very poor, moved around a lot, lived with people other than family for a time, etc.). Nothing on TMZ of any kind. Never seen out the night before a game. Always shows up early and leaves late. His work ethic is incredible. Even the decision his heart was in the right place as he raised millions for the Boys and Girls Club (it clearly wasn't the correct thing to do, but I don't think he did it for the wrong reasons).
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most people that don't like LeBron don't like him bc of who he is as a person. tough to argue that and it is his own fault.
what is the point of the OPs "letter"? yea, lbj is a great player.....but he is still a db.
Who he is as a person?? lol How do you know how he is off the court? Have you talked to him or hung out with him? nN. You can't determine what kind of a person a player is by the way he is on the court. I heard he gives back to his school and helps the boys and girls club too. So I don't how his game (whining about calls and flopping) lets fans see who he is as a person off the court. I don't think that's how it works.
of course i dont know him personally. what i do know is the way he speaks, carries himself, the image he portrays, etc. those are all 100% him and not the media creating an image. he presents himself is egotistical and narcissistic. some people might like other people who are narcissistic and egotistical, but i cant stand people like that.
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Best in the world. I like the guy. He has matured a whole lot since his Cleveland days. When he won that championship last year, I almost teared up because he deserved it and he singlehandedly won it for the Heat. I hate the rest of his teammates but I've been a Lebron fan even when he was childish and prima dona back in the day.
Everything said, he is a Legend in every sense and I for one I'm glad I'm witnessing his greatness unfold before my eyes.
Micheal Jordan was a great amazing basketball player but he was and is a ****ty human being (his current lawsuit against Dominicks and his HOF induction speech among other things). So is Kobe Bryant. ****ty human beings. Lebron is a complete opposite. Kind and very likable dude. Did anybody see this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqd3jUPq3Lw
I don't care what anybody says. The guy is awesome and deserve all the championship he gets from here on.
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(BUMP)
Gut check tonight for him and your letter.
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"We are all witnessing a legend, who the future generations will look back in the same way like we do for Bill Russel, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Julius Erving and many others. These are all known as very good players and as legends and 10-20 years from now, when the future generations look back, they will see LeBron as one of the greatest to ever play. People will wish they could see him play, just like we wish we could see players like Bill Russel, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and others play."
Are you kidding me? it's for this very reason that I can't stand him. future generations will just see the highlights. they won't see the coward that he is, as soon as things get tough he disappears.
as for him "maturing"? this is completely untrue he hasn't matured at all since his Cleveland days, he just got better players to play with.
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I think you can appreciate LeBron and still dislike him. Is LeBron the best player in the NBA today? Yes. Do I think LeBron is ridiculously lame as a person and find his behavior on the court very off-putting? Yes.
Acknowledging his talent and disliking him are not mutually exclusive things. I just find him unlikeable because I think he is not a chill dude at all.
Well stated. Tp for the concise yet precise post. I agree. It is not "hate", but simple dislike for a childish, self-absorbed basketball player who is not a likable person.
I don't lose sleep over James, I simply don't really respect him as a person, but it would be foolish to say he is not an incredibly talented player.
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He still is a choker
I dislike him so much, but choker, I think not. The difference between him and magic, bird, Jordan, they knew what it took to win, they had an intense fire to win, and they made others around them better.
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I can't appreciate Lebron either. is he talented? yes. is he the best player in the league today? probably.
i'd rather be with out Lebron than have ever seen him play.
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The Best players in the league changed the game, in one way or an other. LeBron really hasn't. He's a freak athlete, shoots decently from the out side, and maybe the best track down blocker in a fast break. But he can't take a hit with out crying and checking for blood for a half hour, bulls his way with offensive fouls to get to the hoop, and travels every chance he gets. Oh and he doesn't foul out.
Difference between Lebron and guys like Bird,Jordan,Magic,Ewing,etc is that they didn't team up with two of the top 10/15 guys in the league to win. They made the players around them better, and pushed them to higher levels. You think Pippen would be the player he was? No, he would have been good, but not one of the best SF in the game. Plus the talent level was WAY better, and the rules way harder. Jordan would have averaged 40 no sweat in todays game. Bird as well. Plus those guys wanted the ball at the end of the game, lived for that killer shot that buckled the opposing teams knee's with a buzzer beater.
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I think Pippen would have been just as good without Jordan! He may not have won titles but he actually may have been a better player. As far as Lebron moving to get with other quality players is it possible that Bird, Jordan, and Magic might have done the same thing if they were stuck in Cleveland.
I too have watched a lot of basketball over the years and Lebron is one of the best I have seen. Does he have everything that Bird or Magic did, probably not but he's still a great player in his own right. I personally dont think that he has the mental ability as players like Bird, Magic, Kareem but he's still a great player and will go down as one of the best of all time.
If you put Lebron on the 86 Celtics in place of Bird does that team still win the title? Against the Lakers does Lebron shut down James Worthy and slow down Magic's game a lot? You better believe he does.
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the greats had other all stars/great players around them, they had to. it takes more than one to win a championship there's no denying that.
when the past greats lost they didn't conspire and cheapen what it takes to build a champion. which thus far in Miami has proven to be a failure, specifically by their standards because they were supposed to win 7 - 8 championships.
when the past "greats" lost no one was saying they need more help while still being surrounded by other greats/ all stars.
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he's 1-3 in the NBA finals for his career. choker.
This comment made me laugh.
First, he has two rings, so this isn't even possible (he's 2-2). Now, he may lose his 3rd Finals tonight, but I no longer consider him a choker. He's in his fourth consecutive Finals and has won the past two, that is pretty good. He is hands down the best player in the world currently.
There's probably only one NBA player I have ever truly despised (Kobe), and that is more to do with the fact he is a horrible human being. Lebron is actually a pretty good guy off the court (by all accounts), even if he may be bit arrogant and self-absorbed. All elite athletes are for the most part. This isn't to say I love Lebron, or even like him, but I certainly do not hate him.
Also, while I do think the Spurs likely close out Miami tonight, and have embarrassed Miami thus far, I fail to see how Lebron has choked at all. The Spurs are just a better TEAM. Lebron actually seems to be in a pretty good place mentally, he doesn't seem phased by the moment. That is the perception I've been left with after seeing his interviews during the Finals.
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he's 1-3 in the NBA finals for his career. choker.
This comment made me laugh.
First, he has two rings, so this isn't even possible (he's 2-2). Now, he may lose his 3rd Finals tonight, but I no longer consider him a choker. He's in his fourth consecutive Finals and has won the past two, that is pretty good. He is hands down the best player in the world currently.
There's probably only one NBA player I have ever truly despised (Kobe), and that is more to do with the fact he is a horrible human being. Lebron is actually a pretty good guy off the court (by all accounts), even if he may be bit arrogant and self-absorbed. All elite athletes are for the most part. This isn't to say I love Lebron, or even like him, but I certainly do not hate him.
Also, while I do think the Spurs likely close out Miami tonight, and have embarrassed Miami thus far, I fail to see how Lebron has choked at all. The Spurs are just a better TEAM. Lebron actually seems to be in a pretty good place mentally, he doesn't seem phased by the moment. That is the perception I've been left with after seeing his interviews during the Finals.
Made me laugh too, although then found out that comment was made a year ago ;D (and it was still wrong then too!)
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Everything Lebron is being accused of by the "haters," past superstars has been guilty of at one point in their careers. A lot of criticisms thrown at this guy is ridiculous and stupid. We idolized KG for his willingness to win at all cost (rightfully so), and that includes dirty plays as long as we get a W, but the same people would turn around and criticize Lebron for arguing calls or flopping (something a lot of superstars of the past has done).
Yes, it infuriates me just as much as anyone here that he gets away with calls but Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Bird,...all benefited from being "superstars" on the court. As a Celtics fan I admit I do get mad when watching the game and see some of these stuff he does but it absolutely has (and shouldn't have) no baring at all on how he's perceived when compared to the greats. Lebron is the very best player in the world today, hands down. He is head and shoulders above everyone. That's the painful truth.
He's played five season minutes in four seasons, way way more minutes than anyone in the league has played. He has carried the Heat for three years straight all by himself and people are still criticizing him. He disappears? Are you kidding me? How many points did he have in his disappearing act? Please tell me. He's been the only greatest consistent player in Heat uniform for three years straight with everyone just going along for the ride. He's had little to no support in that duration. Despite the big three label, he's being the only one doing it all.
I hope people would stop this Lebron hating nonsense. He deserve every accolades thrown his way and deserve to be compared to Jordan because that's the only player worth comparing to Lebron. Yes, he is that great.
I hate the Heat and I want them to lose in everything they do but I don't hate Lebron the player (he's that good). As a matter of fact, I have the utmost respect for his talent and his prowess and ability. And Lebron the person is 1000x better than Jordan and Kobe (****ty human beings in my opinion).
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Of course we don't like him cause he doesn't play for the Celtics..if Larry Bird played for the Lakers or Kevin McHale played for New York, we would hate them as well
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Of course we don't like him cause he doesn't play for the Celtics..if Larry Bird played for the Lakers or Kevin McHale played for New York, we would hate them as well
"Dislike" and "hate" are two different and distinct things and, to me, "hate" is just too strong for Lebron. This isn't to say I particularly like him or adore him.
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Of course we don't like him cause he doesn't play for the Celtics..if Larry Bird played for the Lakers or Kevin McHale played for New York, we would hate them as well
I think that is what it comes down to really. I just hate the fact that we are so fortunate in witnessing history unfold right before our eyes by watching one of the very best player in the history of the game play, and all most people want to do is hate and nitpick at everything he does.
The only thing I hate is his association with the Heat and D Wade (my least favorite player in Basketball)
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Everything Lebron is being accused of by the "haters," past superstars has been guilty of at one point in their careers. A lot of criticisms thrown at this guy is ridiculous and stupid. We idolized KG for his willingness to win at all cost (rightfully so), and that includes dirty plays as long as we get a W, but the same people would turn around and criticize Lebron for arguing calls or flopping (something a lot of superstars of the past has done).
KG was notoriously known as being a "a guy teams hated to play against but would love to have on their team". Lebron is notoriously known as a flopper, something KG had never been associated with. it even became an internet sensation with kids copying Lebron's act. I don't ever recall past greats ever being associated with being a flopper, ever.
have past greats benefited from "superstar calls"? absolutely. I don't recall a past great having the rules changed to benefit them though. a couple yrs. ago they changed the travel rule to now you can take 3 steps after Lebron's crab dribble came into question.
in fact when Shaq was dominant they changed the rules to try and make him less dominant. they added a 5 sec. rule when posting a player up and backing him down.
He's played five season minutes in four seasons, way way more minutes than anyone in the league has played. He has carried the Heat for three years straight all by himself and people are still criticizing him. He disappears? Are you kidding me? How many points did he have in his disappearing act? Please tell me. He's been the only greatest consistent player in Heat uniform for three years straight with everyone just going along for the ride. He's had little to no support in that duration. Despite the big three label, he's being the only one doing it all.
this is such a cop out of an excuse when people defend Lebron, it's sickening. it was almost bearable when he was in Cleveland. the excuses stopped when he went to Miami.
I hope people would stop this Lebron hating nonsense. He deserve every accolades thrown his way and deserve to be compared to Jordan because that's the only player worth comparing to Lebron. Yes, he is that great.
Jordan never called up karl Malone and gary payton to come save his reputation. he didn't need to and he did it with less.
the criticism is completely fair. he didn't have to get "king" tattooed on him before playing a game in the NBA. he didn't have to tell us he's going to win 7 - 8 championships.
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Everything Lebron is being accused of by the "haters," past superstars has been guilty of at one point in their careers. A lot of criticisms thrown at this guy is ridiculous and stupid. We idolized KG for his willingness to win at all cost (rightfully so), and that includes dirty plays as long as we get a W, but the same people would turn around and criticize Lebron for arguing calls or flopping (something a lot of superstars of the past has done).
KG was notoriously known as being a "a guy teams hated to play against but would love to have on their team". Lebron is notoriously known as a flopper, something KG had never been associated with. it even became an internet sensation with kids copying Lebron's act. I don't ever recall past greats ever being associated with being a flopper, ever.
have past greats benefited from "superstar calls"? absolutely. I don't recall a past great having the rules changed to benefit them though. a couple yrs. ago they changed the travel rule to now you can take 3 steps after Lebron's crab dribble came into question.
in fact when Shaq was dominant they changed the rules to try and make him less dominant. they added a 5 sec. rule when posting a player up and backing him down.
He's played five season minutes in four seasons, way way more minutes than anyone in the league has played. He has carried the Heat for three years straight all by himself and people are still criticizing him. He disappears? Are you kidding me? How many points did he have in his disappearing act? Please tell me. He's been the only greatest consistent player in Heat uniform for three years straight with everyone just going along for the ride. He's had little to no support in that duration. Despite the big three label, he's being the only one doing it all.
this is such a cop out of an excuse when people defend Lebron, it's sickening. it was almost bearable when he was in Cleveland. the excuses stopped when he went to Miami.
I hope people would stop this Lebron hating nonsense. He deserve every accolades thrown his way and deserve to be compared to Jordan because that's the only player worth comparing to Lebron. Yes, he is that great.
Jordan never called up karl Malone and gary payton to come save his reputation. he didn't need to and he did it with less.
the criticism is completely fair. he didn't have to get "king" tattooed on him before playing a game in the NBA. he didn't have to tell us he's going to win 7 - 8 championships.
I'm very sure Lebron is also that guy players hate to play against but would love to have on their team. I'm sure all his teammates shares that sentiment. Point is KG and Lebron does what they do because of their competitiveness. They will stop at nothing to win. KG is probably more competitive than Lebron but it's thesame formula and it's for the same goal. For them, it's about getting that edge. It's ridiculous to praise one player for his antics but ridicule the other for his when they both share the same mentality.
I didn't know they changed the travel rule to 3 steps. Is there any proof to this or you're just making an assumption? I would like a credible source for this claim. I'm not saying that you're lying, I just didn't know. So anything to back this up would be great.
He's been carrying Miami just like he was carrying Cavs back in the day. The talent around him in Miami is obviously better than the ones he had in Cleveland but it still doesn't negate the fact that he's being the one carrying that team for the past couple years now. Jordan had way better help and talents around him (and better coach) when he won those championships. Lebron did it with less talent support.
I thought people would actually respect the fact that he respects the legends before him enough to seek their helpful opinions. It means he wasn't caught up in his own hype and didn't think he's a superman. This approach makes me respect him even more because it shows his maturity among other things.
He didn't have to get "King" tattooed on him? Who cares what tattoos he gets? Seriously, who cares? Mohammed Ali...the greatest EVER in sports and one of the greatest human being to ever walk the planet earth in my opinion was the biggest trash talker in sports history. He arrogantly thrashed his opponents and verbally pushed the envelop and talked so BIG about himself that it's borderline sickening but he backed it up in the ring. It took Lebron a year after he said those words, but he's backed it up as well and his career is not over yet. Ali did it with grace and with style that is comparable to none. Lebron is already a legend in his own right and I respect him for that.
Whatever minor mistakes he made in the past, he's paid for them one way or another and it shouldn't have any bearing on his legacy. We're all human and we make mistakes. Move on.
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Also, Lebron's reputation among the players he's played with is far better than Jordan's reputation among the players he's played with. Better than Kobe's as well. It's besides the point but I thought I should point that out.
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Good Post (TP).
While I appreciate LeBron and his talent, I'll also appreciate seeing Tim Duncan, Coach Popovich and Co Give LeBron James and Co. The Business today, lol.
I'm sorry - call me an Old-Head if you wish, but I'll NEVER place LeBron in the same category as Larry, Michael, Magic, Dr J, Kareem, Moses, Hakeem - for me, the guys I just mentioned were not only among the top 10 or so players in the game - but they COMPETED against one another.
The 80s (and the 90s to some extent) were the Golden Age of the NBA. The best competed against the best.
Nothing against LeBron...it's not his fault he wasn't born in the 80s.
If the Spurs can close the deal tonight, I will celebrate MIA's defeat, and Spur's title...without batting an eyelash.
And I'll tell my boys 20 years from now - "Sons, LeBron was indeed a GREAT player, but let me tell you my memories of the 80s".........
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He's been carrying Miami just like he was carrying Cavs back in the day. The talent around him in Miami is obviously better than the ones he had in Cleveland but it still doesn't negate the fact that he's being the one carrying that team for the past couple years now. Jordan had way better help and talents around him (and better coach) when he won those championships. Lebron did it with less talent support.
When the Cavs lost to Boston in Bron's last year in Cleveland, it was NOT the case that he was great and the team let him down. When Miami lost to Dallas in the Finals, it was NOT the case that Bron was great and his team let him down. This year, LeBron has had one great game in the Finals and one great quarter. The other 11 quarters, he's been as responsible for the losses as anyone not named D. Wade.
LeBron is a great player. When you're trying to rank the greatest ever, those are the sorts of things you must take into consideration.
Mike
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If for nothing else, you can at least brag and tell stories about how you were his fan in his prime and watched every one of his greatest and historic moves in games that people will see on youtube videos a long time from now.
One of those must be must be that legendary move where either Jordan or the messiah releases....catches a pass at half court...And without a dribble takes it to the hole for a thunderous dunk...And two points...In front of two of the three fans dress as officials.
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I don't think anyone here ignores that he's a generational talent, and that he's one of the 2 best players in the league today. I know he's crazy talented and he will go down as one of the all time greats. But I do root for him to lose.
And I don't know if anyone shares the same sentiment as me, but the biggest turning point of what really turned me off him was when he moved to Miami (regardless of that hideous 1-hour special). If you're an all-time great, there's something about you having to win it all on your own terms. It would've been like Michael Jordan playing for Houston to team up with Olajuwon. Not saying he shouldn't have had better teammates, but Wade was practically on his "level" or his peer, such that when the team formed, people wondered how the team would be like and who would take the lead. That's what "tarnished" him for me, and which cemented his "unrootable"-ness.
I don't know if I'm conveying my point correctly. I just got off the plane and am still quite groggy but hopefully I'm making sense. Maybe someone could polish up my point if they get what I'm talking about. Lol
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I didn't know they changed the travel rule to 3 steps. Is there any proof to this or you're just making an assumption? I would like a credible source for this claim. I'm not saying that you're lying, I just didn't know. So anything to back this up would be great.
it was '09, it was in fact reported that they changed the rule but later the NBA had to clarify(which I didn't know till now) that they didn't change the rule or how it was enforced but made tweaks to it:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/9963/traveling-violation-nba-on-rule-change
He's been carrying Miami just like he was carrying Cavs back in the day. The talent around him in Miami is obviously better than the ones he had in Cleveland but it still doesn't negate the fact that he's being the one carrying that team for the past couple years now. Jordan had way better help and talents around him (and better coach) when he won those championships. Lebron did it with less talent support.
Rodman and Horace Grant were 2 of my favorite players back then, Grant was way underrated, Rodman is one of my all time favorite players ever that didn't play for the Celtics. but as great as I think they were they weren't ever considered to be 2 of the top 5 players in the league at that time.
Wade & Bosh were 2 of the top 5 players at the time they formed their big 3.
Pippen and Kucoc were great players. i'll even give you Pippen as a top 5 player during that era. but you'd still have to put Malone or say Payton? on that Bulls team to compare the 2 situations. I will go out on a limb though and say if Jordan played with Malone and Payton they may have won 10 rings.
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In their primes and both ( James and Jordon) are most likely past their primes( I think LeBron starts to decline if they lose this series), who do you think wins one on one? My money would be on Jordan.
Jordan was a way better scorer than James.
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badshar, I understand what you're trying to say. And I'm one that hates a lot of the things I've seen from him as it applies to him joining the Heat.
But I do have to acknowledge his talent and wonder whether or not if the Heat somehow win this series will there be talk of him being the "greatest" NBA player ever? If he is on fire for three games and somehow that inspires the Heat to pull off the greatest turnaround in history, what will it say about him as a player?
Respecting and liking will always be two sides of the same coin IMO. I may never like him, or respect everything about him...but I would have to give him his props if they somehow win the series.
Rak
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In their primes and both ( James and Jordon) are most likely past their primes( I think LeBron starts to decline if they lose this series), who do you think wins one on one? My money would be on Jordan.
Jordan was a way better scorer than James.
Sadly, basketball isn't about 1 on 1.
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Sadly, basketball isn't about 1 on 1.
Who told you that your grade school coach?
Most, good basketball players are decent at one on one and scoring since the league is mainly man to man defense. Even the spurs guys who move the ball can score on the one on one situations their passes create. Most offenses are attempts to create isos in the NBA which require beating your man one on one.
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In their primes and both ( James and Jordon) are most likely past their primes( I think LeBron starts to decline if they lose this series), who do you think wins one on one? My money would be on Jordan.
Jordan was a way better scorer than James.
It's a tough one but my money would be on Lebron.
...and Lebron hasn't past his prime
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in fact when Shaq was dominant they changed the rules to try and make him less dominant. they added a 5 sec. rule when posting a player up and backing him down.
This is called the "Mark Jackson Rule" for a reason. Shaq wasn't taking 5+ seconds to back a guy down, because a double would've come by second #3 at at the latest. He generally attacked very quickly to try and bulldoze his way to the rim.
Mark Jackson would back a smaller guard down all the way from the 3 pt line to the paint, taking 10-15 seconds or more. They didn't change the rule because he was dominating that way, but because it made for really boring, tedious basketball.
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He's a statistical anomaly. His size, speed, strength and co-ordination are incredibly rare.
What's amazing with Lebron is that he's managed to improve his game from being just a bulldozer who puts his head down and shoulder barrells his way to the free throw line. He's become a good shooter over time. Some of the enormous shots he's hit to carry those Heat teams were just sickening. He's become such a smart player, and in my eyes is the modern day version of Magic Johnson with his overall game. I will go there and say he's better than Magic Johnson, and about on the same level as Bird.
It annoys me when people say 'he teamed up to beat everyone when they used to do it fairly'. What a load of crap. Magic, Bird and Jordan's support casts were incredible. Wade has been about as good as Pippen for 2 of these 4 finals.
Look at Larry's supporting casts...how would Larry or MJ or Magic fare with team mates playing like this years Heat are?
I will honestly never forget game 6 in Boston in 2012 ECF. 45 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists and shot something like 20 of 26 field goal attempts. Their next best scorer was D Wade with 17 or 18 points.
Lebron is a legend, and is 100% in the same conversation as guys like Larry, Jordan, Magic etc..he's a generational player with a mix of skill, intelligence and consistent huge performances that turn franchise players into hall of famers.
Don't forget how good this Spurs team is either- it's up there with the great teams in NBA history. His sidekicks have let him down this season. I'd argue that none of these guys on his team have been anywhere near as effective as Pippen was for Jordan in the NBA finals.
I will say I think Lebron hasn't taken control on his own enough in these finals. He seems so focused on trying to beat the Spurs by getting everyone involved on the Heat that he's over looked opportunities to score and punish the Spurs. You can see Kwahi Leonard go under screens instead of over the top, and Lebron will have a wide open 12 foot jumpshot- something he needs to take and at least try and hit a few of to make them think about coming back over screens- yet he visibly goes into the jumpshot motion and stops and almost thinks out loudly 'they want me to shoot this, I'm not going to fall for that', and he dishes off to another player.
He needs to stop trying to get everyone else involved and just attack the basket and get to the line. Once he starts getting to the hole, that's when the defense will start collapsing on him and his team mates will get wide open looks. Something's just not there for the Heat this year and the Spurs have made Lebron over think things a little bit too much in my opinion. ( Which I have no doubt this was Popovich's aim in the first place).
Wade is cooked, Bosh has been mediocre and Chalmers and Ray Allen have been complete duds too. If Jordan's team mates had played this poorly he wouldn't beat this Spurs team either.
It's just surprising they're so fried because they had an easy run to the finals and yet they can barely make a rotation on defense.
But yeah I agree with the OP.
LBJ= Living Legend.
I want the Spurs to win because I love Popovich, but Lebron's team mates haven't done their jobs this season and there's only so much that one man can do against an offense like San Antonio's when it's firing on all cylinders.
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Nah. I hope he seriously declines after this season.
He whines everytime he drives to the hoop and no foul call was made.
Excuse me Mr. Lebron James, the Stern era has passed, Adam Silver (IMHO) wants changes. And that means you no longer are the fair-haired boy.
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I cannot consider Lebron among the handful of the best players ever. He was phenomenal in the first quarter of the game today, but he was ordinary the rest of the game and was walking up and down the floor in the middle of the fourth quarter. He seems to wilt in the face of adversity far too often.
Can anyone who watched the second half of today's game (or games 3 & 4) honestly say that he elevated his team, took over a game, or went down fighting? Can anyone say he played with as much heart as Jordan, Bird, or Kobe? Physically, he's as talented as anyone ever, but he does not have that love of competition or determination to win that these other guys had.
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I cannot consider Lebron among the handful of the best players ever. He was phenomenal in the first quarter of the game today, but he was ordinary the rest of the game and was walking up and down the floor in the middle of the fourth quarter. He seems to wilt in the face of adversity far too often.
Can anyone who watched the second half of today's game (or games 3 & 4) honestly say that he elevated his team, took over a game, or went down fighting? Can anyone say he played with as much heart as Jordan, Bird, or Kobe? Physically, he's as talented as anyone ever, but he does not have that love of competition or determination to win that these other guys had.
he isn't. the greats step up when the stakes are highest. lebron doesn't.
i know lebron apologists will say that he did his part, that the others didn't do enough, blah blah blah. but to be considered one of the greatest, filling out individual stat sheets isn't enough. he didn't make his teammates better, he was contained much of the time by leonard, and he quit in the 4th. good, not great.
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Lebron is a legend, and is 100% in the same conversation as guys like Larry, Jordan, Magic etc..he's a generational player with a mix of skill, intelligence and consistent huge performances that turn franchise players into hall of famers.
You don't get in the discussion with Jordan (or Russell) if you are 2-3 in the Finals. And you don't get to use bad teammates as an excuse when LeBron specifically picked those teammates and picked them because he thought they were going to be good enough to help him not just win but create a super-team to dominate the league. If you don't want to play by the same rules as others, you don't get to use the same excuses.
Mike
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He's a statistical anomaly. His size, speed, strength and co-ordination are incredibly rare.
What's amazing with Lebron is that he's managed to improve his game from being just a bulldozer who puts his head down and shoulder barrells his way to the free throw line. He's become a good shooter over time. Some of the enormous shots he's hit to carry those Heat teams were just sickening. He's become such a smart player, and in my eyes is the modern day version of Magic Johnson with his overall game. I will go there and say he's better than Magic Johnson, and about on the same level as Bird.
It annoys me when people say 'he teamed up to beat everyone when they used to do it fairly'. What a load of crap. Magic, Bird and Jordan's support casts were incredible. Wade has been about as good as Pippen for 2 of these 4 finals.
Look at Larry's supporting casts...how would Larry or MJ or Magic fare with team mates playing like this years Heat are?
I will honestly never forget game 6 in Boston in 2012 ECF. 45 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists and shot something like 20 of 26 field goal attempts. Their next best scorer was D Wade with 17 or 18 points.
Lebron is a legend, and is 100% in the same conversation as guys like Larry, Jordan, Magic etc..he's a generational player with a mix of skill, intelligence and consistent huge performances that turn franchise players into hall of famers.
Don't forget how good this Spurs team is either- it's up there with the great teams in NBA history. His sidekicks have let him down this season. I'd argue that none of these guys on his team have been anywhere near as effective as Pippen was for Jordan in the NBA finals.
I will say I think Lebron hasn't taken control on his own enough in these finals. He seems so focused on trying to beat the Spurs by getting everyone involved on the Heat that he's over looked opportunities to score and punish the Spurs. You can see Kwahi Leonard go under screens instead of over the top, and Lebron will have a wide open 12 foot jumpshot- something he needs to take and at least try and hit a few of to make them think about coming back over screens- yet he visibly goes into the jumpshot motion and stops and almost thinks out loudly 'they want me to shoot this, I'm not going to fall for that', and he dishes off to another player.
He needs to stop trying to get everyone else involved and just attack the basket and get to the line. Once he starts getting to the hole, that's when the defense will start collapsing on him and his team mates will get wide open looks. Something's just not there for the Heat this year and the Spurs have made Lebron over think things a little bit too much in my opinion. ( Which I have no doubt this was Popovich's aim in the first place).
Wade is cooked, Bosh has been mediocre and Chalmers and Ray Allen have been complete duds too. If Jordan's team mates had played this poorly he wouldn't beat this Spurs team either.
It's just surprising they're so fried because they had an easy run to the finals and yet they can barely make a rotation on defense.
But yeah I agree with the OP.
LBJ= Living Legend.
I want the Spurs to win because I love Popovich, but Lebron's team mates haven't done their jobs this season and there's only so much that one man can do against an offense like San Antonio's when it's firing on all cylinders.
Although I respect your views, I'm afraid that I have to disagree. Lebron is nowhere near Magic or Bird, and here's why. I personally hate the term 'supporting cast', which only started to appear when Jordan wasn't yet winning titles. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Isiah Thomas never had 'supporting casts', they had TEAMMATES. In fact, you could make the argument that, until his 1st mvp in 87, Magic was actually a part of LA's supporting cast, because it was Kareem's team. Jabbar was the go-to guy, not Magic, at least not for the first 7 years of Johnson's career, and then you also have to factor in Worthy, and he was a go-to guy as well. Yes, Magic had huge performances in many of the biggest moments (game 6 in 1980 comes to mind), but the offense didn't revolve around him, although it's impossible to fault the Lakers for centering their offense around the man who scored the most points in NBA History.
All I'm trying to say is that, while there were role players, as there are today, the idea of a supporting cast never existed prior to at least 1990. Jordan was a terrible teammate, and apparently, Magic wasn't the greatest one either, as they both belittled guys on their own teams, but it was Michael who first referred to Pippen and Grant etc as his 'supporting cast', just as Lebron did while he was in Cleveland, and I think it's a little insulting to the other guys. Larry Bird never called a member of his team a part of his 'supporting cast', not even Greg Kite. #33 was also a great teammate, certainly better than Jordan or Magic. He encouraged his guys and worked with them, and everyone who played with him became a better player, especially in terms of passing. That's not the case with Lebron or Jordan, the latter of whom could only win under a certain coach and system that was designed to get the other players involved offensively. What a joke. Isn't that the job of a great player, to use the defensive attention on him to get his teammates, or in this case, members of his supporting cast ::) , more involved via easy baskets and such?
Besides, in the case of Lebron, where was the leadership after they lost game 3? In 1984, Larry ripped himself and his teammates after getting blown out in game 3, and they responded. Lebron didn't seem to be too concerned after getting blown out on his home floor and thus relinquishing the home court advantage. It's not even close, imho, between Bird and James, but everyone has their own opinion and I respect that. Just my two cents.
Oh, and if you haven't already visited the thread entitled 'Calling All Music Lovers', http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=70754.0, I'd encourage you to do so. Wait until you hear her sing!
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Lebron is a legend, and is 100% in the same conversation as guys like Larry, Jordan, Magic etc..he's a generational player with a mix of skill, intelligence and consistent huge performances that turn franchise players into hall of famers.
You don't get in the discussion with Jordan (or Russell) if you are 2-3 in the Finals. And you don't get to use bad teammates as an excuse when LeBron specifically picked those teammates and picked them because he thought they were going to be good enough to help him not just win but create a super-team to dominate the league. If you don't want to play by the same rules as others, you don't get to use the same excuses.
Mike
tp. i personally don't hate on him for joining up with miami how he did..BUT when trying to shoehorn him into the discussion of the all time greats, it has to be regarded. and people need to stop with the excuses about his teammates this time around.
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James is already 27th all time for total points scored in NBA history. He will likely finish next season in the top 20.
He is 35th all time for total assists. He should finish next season in the mid-20's.
He is 151st all time in rebounds and will likely move up about 30 spots next year.
He is 45th all time in steals and will likely move up 10-15 spots next year.
He is 158th all time in blocks and should move up another 10-15 spots next year.
Now granted steals and blocks weren't around in the very early days of the NBA, but he has still done all that and is still just 29 years old. Now granted he has a ton of miles on his legs, but he could reasonably finish his career in the top ten in points, steals, and assists; the top 30 in rebounds; and the top 50 in blocks. He is a 4 time MVP, 2 time champion, and by far the best and most versatile and athletic player in the league during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
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i'd like to know how Lebron, Wade & Bosh were going to win "not 7, not 8...." if they were only signed for 4 yr's.?
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during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
Athleticism? Yes. Skill? No way.
The reason why more teams don't play like the Spurs is that their players don't have the skills to do so.
Mike
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James is already 27th all time for total points scored in NBA history. He will likely finish next season in the top 20.
He is 35th all time for total assists. He should finish next season in the mid-20's.
He is 151st all time in rebounds and will likely move up about 30 spots next year.
He is 45th all time in steals and will likely move up 10-15 spots next year.
He is 158th all time in blocks and should move up another 10-15 spots next year.
Now granted steals and blocks weren't around in the very early days of the NBA, but he has still done all that and is still just 29 years old. Now granted he has a ton of miles on his legs, but he could reasonably finish his career in the top ten in points, steals, and assists; the top 30 in rebounds; and the top 50 in blocks. He is a 4 time MVP, 2 time champion, and by far the best and most versatile and athletic player in the league during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
And despite all of that, he still acts like a whiny, little girl.
I lost in the finals for the first time in three years, whhaahh. I sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes of the championship game because my teammates stink, whhaaah. Bosh and Wade are no longer good enough to play with me, whhaaah. I'm leaving to find teammates that are worthy of me, whhaaah.
The guy makes me want to puke.
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"skill at an all-time high"?
more like complete opposite. it's deteriorated into a complete iso, pick n roll, pick n pop game. and even the picks being set are a joke as most players today don't have the skills to execute those properly.
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(http://i.imgur.com/tmE6UPx.jpg)
There's a lot of Abe Simpson going on in this thread.
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I've seen enough of Lebron to know that I'm not watching a great player in any era. He's the Peyton Manning of the NBA.
The great player of this era is Duncan.
Lebron is sorta a spoiled brat footnote.
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TP for the effort. I read the whole thing upon your request.
I just want to add that I had the privilege of watching Jordan play a lot in his prime, and I absolutely hated him. I am now showing the same respect for Lebron James and his game by hating him with the same amount of passion.
I also had the privilege of watching Jordan play, but unlike you, I was a very very very young kid still in elementary moving onto middle school, so I didn't have a sense of "pride" in home town teams
it was Jordan who got an elementary school kid into basketball. It wasn't until when I started playing volleyball and going to high school where I start rooting for home town teams, cuz it's a sense of pride that you root for the team and city you grew up in
back on topic, I used to like Lebron, the Celtics were my favorite team, but LeBron was such a great player even when we faced him in the playoffs. I REALLY didn't like the way he handled the "decision" saga. That ultimately made me hate him until he won his 2nd chip. Yes, his 2nd chip not first. I think he regained my respect for him. 4 straight final appearance with 2 chips...that's pretty [dang] good in my opinion...
But I am still annoyed how he always do these "decisions"...just stick to one team!
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What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
What should I do?
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
What should I do?
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
What should I do?
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
What should I do?
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What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
What should I do?
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
What should I do?
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
What should I do?
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
What should I do?
Sorry
http://youtu.be/9u0EL_u4nvw?t=43s
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James is already 27th all time for total points scored in NBA history. He will likely finish next season in the top 20.
He is 35th all time for total assists. He should finish next season in the mid-20's.
He is 151st all time in rebounds and will likely move up about 30 spots next year.
He is 45th all time in steals and will likely move up 10-15 spots next year.
He is 158th all time in blocks and should move up another 10-15 spots next year.
Now granted steals and blocks weren't around in the very early days of the NBA, but he has still done all that and is still just 29 years old. Now granted he has a ton of miles on his legs, but he could reasonably finish his career in the top ten in points, steals, and assists; the top 30 in rebounds; and the top 50 in blocks. He is a 4 time MVP, 2 time champion, and by far the best and most versatile and athletic player in the league during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
And despite all of that, he still acts like a whiny, little girl.
I lost in the finals for the first time in three years, whhaahh. I sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes of the championship game because my teammates stink, whhaaah. Bosh and Wade are no longer good enough to play with me, whhaaah. I'm leaving to find teammates that are worthy of me, whhaaah.
The guy makes me want to puke.
Do you have links for those quotes, or are you getting physically ill thinking about a caricature that lives in your head?
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James is already 27th all time for total points scored in NBA history. He will likely finish next season in the top 20.
He is 35th all time for total assists. He should finish next season in the mid-20's.
He is 151st all time in rebounds and will likely move up about 30 spots next year.
He is 45th all time in steals and will likely move up 10-15 spots next year.
He is 158th all time in blocks and should move up another 10-15 spots next year.
Now granted steals and blocks weren't around in the very early days of the NBA, but he has still done all that and is still just 29 years old. Now granted he has a ton of miles on his legs, but he could reasonably finish his career in the top ten in points, steals, and assists; the top 30 in rebounds; and the top 50 in blocks. He is a 4 time MVP, 2 time champion, and by far the best and most versatile and athletic player in the league during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
And despite all of that, he still acts like a whiny, little girl.
I lost in the finals for the first time in three years, whhaahh. I sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes of the championship game because my teammates stink, whhaaah. Bosh and Wade are no longer good enough to play with me, whhaaah. I'm leaving to find teammates that are worthy of me, whhaaah.
The guy makes me want to puke.
Do you have links for those quotes, or are you getting physically ill thinking about a caricature that lives in your head?
Just my observations. :)
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I HATE the Queen!
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i'd like to know how Lebron, Wade & Bosh were going to win "not 7, not 8...." if they were only signed for 4 yr's.?
listen to that whole thing again. Lebron never actually promised they would win any titles. He did say that (clearly playing to the crowd), but right after that said things like if we stay healthy, if we play like we can, we have a shot at winning multiple titles. No one actually goes past the not 1 thing because they don't like Lebron, but it was clear that he was playing to the crowd and not promising a darn thing.
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"skill at an all-time high"?
more like complete opposite. it's deteriorated into a complete iso, pick n roll, pick n pop game. and even the picks being set are a joke as most players today don't have the skills to execute those properly.
I think you should go back and watch a full finals game from the past and then watch the Spurs/Heat final on a split screen at the same time. The skill level is significantly better today. The game is played differently (though rule changes played a big part in that), but the skill level is without question better today.
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What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Which almost everyone does, including your favorite players. Shiiiiiitttt...Duncan had his own fair share of "crying to the refs."
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
The fact that he became a poster child for something everybody does is a testament to how great he is.
What should I do?
Stop belittling his talent based on your tailored hatred for the man.
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
I bet you would be among the people who would've accused Bo Jackson (the best athlete in sports history) of being on steroids. Just because you are physically gifted doesn't mean you are on steroids.
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
Only time will tell. Duncan may be more accomplished to diehards like you and I. Ask casual fans or someone not familiar with basketball who Tim Duncan is, and you'll get a blank stare. Ask thesame person who Lebron James is and tell me they don't light up.
What should I do?
Give respect where it's due despite your personal feelings towards him. That is what being an intelligent well informed fan is/should be about.
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Durant is a "nice guy" and you know what, nice guys finish last. Durant has always struck me as a guy who don't like to rock the boat or ruffle feathers. That won't take you far. It's thesame reason he doesn't have the guts to tell Westbrook to take a backseat. It's thesame reason he refused to take charge of a team he's clearly the best talent on.
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
Don't be ridiculous. Four straight finals with two championships or a team he singlehandedly carried for three years. You might as well accuse Paul Pierce and KG for thesame thing then. They only won one in 5 years.
What should I do?
Just stop. STOP. You're making ridiculous claims and making yourself look bad at thesame time
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Yea...like all the games he played this playoffs against the Spurs. Oh...I remember him fouling out against us couple years ago.
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
When it's 1 against 5, it's ok.
What should I do?
Again, STOP.
-
What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
What should I do?
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
What should I do?
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
What should I do?
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
What should I do?
Lebron re-signed in Cleveland without much fanfare as well. Or did you forget that? Let's see what Durant does this next time before we start heaping all this praise on him for staying in a small market. Let's also not forget that Westbrook is a significantly better player than anyone James had his entire time in Cleveland. Ibaka is also better than anyone James had in Cleveland (as was Harden). It does make it a bit easier to stay put when you can actually realistically win a title.
-
And despite all of that, he still acts like a whiny, little girl.
I lost in the finals for the first time in three years, whhaahh. I sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes of the championship game because my teammates stink, whhaaah. Bosh and Wade are no longer good enough to play with me, whhaaah. I'm leaving to find teammates that are worthy of me, whhaaah.
The guy makes me want to puke.
Do you have links for those quotes, or are you getting physically ill thinking about a caricature that lives in your head?
Just my observations. :)
TP for the good sense of humor sir (or ma'am).
-
What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Which almost everyone does, including your favorite players. Shiiiiiitttt...Duncan had his own fair share of "crying to the refs."
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
The fact that he became a poster child for something everybody does is a testament to how great he is.
What should I do?
Stop belittling his talent based on your tailored hatred for the man.
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
I bet you would be among the people who would've accused Bo Jackson (the best athlete in sports history) of being on steroids. Just because you are physically gifted doesn't mean you are on steroids.
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
Only time will tell. Duncan may be more accomplished to diehards like you and I. Ask casual fans or someone not familiar with basketball who Tim Duncan is, and you'll get a blank stare. Ask thesame person who Lebron James is and tell me they don't light up.
What should I do?
Give respect where it's due despite your personal feelings towards him. That is what being an intelligent well informed fan is/should be about.
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Durant is a "nice guy" and you know what, nice guys finish last. Durant has always struck me as a guy who don't like to rock the boat or ruffle feathers. That won't take you far. It's thesame reason he doesn't have the guts to tell Westbrook to take a backseat. It's thesame reason he refused to take charge of a team he's clearly the best talent on.
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
Don't be ridiculous. Four straight finals with two championships or a team he singlehandedly carried for three years. You might as well accuse Paul Pierce and KG for thesame thing then. They only won one in 5 years.
What should I do?
Just stop. STOP. You're making ridiculous claims and making yourself look bad at thesame time
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Yea...like all the games he played this playoffs against the Spurs. Oh...I remember him fouling out against us couple years ago.
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
When it's 1 against 5, it's ok.
What should I do?
Again, STOP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTYzwUeBPZw
-
What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
What should I do?
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
What should I do?
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
What should I do?
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
What should I do?
Lebron re-signed in Cleveland without much fanfare as well. Or did you forget that? Let's see what Durant does this next time before we start heaping all this praise on him for staying in a small market. Let's also not forget that Westbrook is a significantly better player than anyone James had his entire time in Cleveland. Ibaka is also better than anyone James had in Cleveland (as was Harden). It does make it a bit easier to stay put when you can actually realistically win a title.
Yes. I totally forgot that the instant he did that absurd self absorbed decision thing. Totally totally forgot.
Yes yes. Bron only played with multiple all stars in Cleveland. Yes yes. They only got to the finals. Surely Bron could never have gotten anyone to play with him in Cleveland. Surely he was doomed there.
-
What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Which almost everyone does, including your favorite players. Shiiiiiitttt...Duncan had his own fair share of "crying to the refs."
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
The fact that he became a poster child for something everybody does is a testament to how great he is.
What should I do?
Stop belittling his talent based on your tailored hatred for the man.
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
I bet you would be among the people who would've accused Bo Jackson (the best athlete in sports history) of being on steroids. Just because you are physically gifted doesn't mean you are on steroids.
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
Only time will tell. Duncan may be more accomplished to diehards like you and I. Ask casual fans or someone not familiar with basketball who Tim Duncan is, and you'll get a blank stare. Ask thesame person who Lebron James is and tell me they don't light up.
What should I do?
Give respect where it's due despite your personal feelings towards him. That is what being an intelligent well informed fan is/should be about.
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Durant is a "nice guy" and you know what, nice guys finish last. Durant has always struck me as a guy who don't like to rock the boat or ruffle feathers. That won't take you far. It's thesame reason he doesn't have the guts to tell Westbrook to take a backseat. It's thesame reason he refused to take charge of a team he's clearly the best talent on.
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
Don't be ridiculous. Four straight finals with two championships or a team he singlehandedly carried for three years. You might as well accuse Paul Pierce and KG for thesame thing then. They only won one in 5 years.
What should I do?
Just stop. STOP. You're making ridiculous claims and making yourself look bad at thesame time
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Yea...like all the games he played this playoffs against the Spurs. Oh...I remember him fouling out against us couple years ago.
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
When it's 1 against 5, it's ok.
What should I do?
Again, STOP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTYzwUeBPZw
Yea, that's what I thought.
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Does anyone think that Durant's decision to stay in OKC was heavily influenced by the backlash he saw in the wake of The Decision?
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Does anyone think that Durant's decision to stay in OKC was heavily influenced by the backlash he saw in the wake of The Decision?
Yes. I do think he would have left. I think the Decision would have happened in the exact same way. It was about making everything all about themselves.
No. I don't think Durant's decision to stay was influenced by Lebron. I also don't think Duncan's decision to stay in San Antonio had anything to do with that loser.
-
What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Which almost everyone does, including your favorite players. Shiiiiiitttt...Duncan had his own fair share of "crying to the refs."
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
The fact that he became a poster child for something everybody does is a testament to how great he is.
What should I do?
Stop belittling his talent based on your tailored hatred for the man.
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
I bet you would be among the people who would've accused Bo Jackson (the best athlete in sports history) of being on steroids. Just because you are physically gifted doesn't mean you are on steroids.
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
Only time will tell. Duncan may be more accomplished to diehards like you and I. Ask casual fans or someone not familiar with basketball who Tim Duncan is, and you'll get a blank stare. Ask thesame person who Lebron James is and tell me they don't light up.
What should I do?
Give respect where it's due despite your personal feelings towards him. That is what being an intelligent well informed fan is/should be about.
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Durant is a "nice guy" and you know what, nice guys finish last. Durant has always struck me as a guy who don't like to rock the boat or ruffle feathers. That won't take you far. It's thesame reason he doesn't have the guts to tell Westbrook to take a backseat. It's thesame reason he refused to take charge of a team he's clearly the best talent on.
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
Don't be ridiculous. Four straight finals with two championships or a team he singlehandedly carried for three years. You might as well accuse Paul Pierce and KG for thesame thing then. They only won one in 5 years.
What should I do?
Just stop. STOP. You're making ridiculous claims and making yourself look bad at thesame time
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Yea...like all the games he played this playoffs against the Spurs. Oh...I remember him fouling out against us couple years ago.
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
When it's 1 against 5, it's ok.
What should I do?
Again, STOP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTYzwUeBPZw
Yea, that's what I thought.
No. This is the part where you say "Well I guess you don't know everything about women" and then kiss your brother (unbeknownst to either of you) and then a wookie laughs at me.
-
What should I do?
Should I watch all the flopping and crying to refs?
Should I start doing that thing teens in malls are doing that they call Lebroning?
What should I do?
Should I accept that Bron is the single most likely example of a player unashamedly on peds across all major sports?
Should I realize that Duncan is a far more accomplished player than Bron?
What should I do?
Should I root for Kevin Durant who resigned with his small market team without a word?
Should I be ok with a player that needs to break tampering rules to say to his buddies "Heeeyyy. We could play togeeetthhherrr?" and then still couldn't win more than 2 championships?
What should I do?
Should I be ok with the fact that refs never call fouls on him ever but call fouls on anyone that breathes on a player from the Heat?
Should I be ok with the game's biggest choker?
What should I do?
Lebron re-signed in Cleveland without much fanfare as well. Or did you forget that? Let's see what Durant does this next time before we start heaping all this praise on him for staying in a small market. Let's also not forget that Westbrook is a significantly better player than anyone James had his entire time in Cleveland. Ibaka is also better than anyone James had in Cleveland (as was Harden). It does make it a bit easier to stay put when you can actually realistically win a title.
Yes. I totally forgot that the instant he did that absurd self absorbed decision thing. Totally totally forgot.
Yes yes. Bron only played with multiple all stars in Cleveland. Yes yes. They only got to the finals. Surely Bron could never have gotten anyone to play with him in Cleveland. Surely he was doomed there.
Multiple all stars? Maurice Williams made 1 all star game and Zydrunas Ilgauskas made 1. No one in Cleveland (during James' time there) made an All NBA or the All Defensive team (aside from Lebron). Westbrook alone eclipses all of those things. Ibaka has made 3 straight All Defense.
And that team that Lebron carried to the finals in Cleveland is most likely the worst team that has ever played in the finals. The starting lineup for the Cavs that post-season was Lebron and a past his prime Z, and then Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Sasha Pavlovic and all of them were over 30 minutes a night. Varejao managed 22, Boobie Gibson 20, Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall were over 10. No one else played in even half of their playoff games. Take Lebron off that team and they are lucky to win 15 games.
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Does anyone think that Durant's decision to stay in OKC was heavily influenced by the backlash he saw in the wake of The Decision?
Of course Lebron stays in Cleveland if there was talent. He even tried to get Bosh to go there, but Bosh refused (Cleveland and Toronto had even worked out a sign and trade to make it happen).
I think Durant would have stayed no matter what because they all pretty much stay after the rookie deal is up. James, Anthony, Howard, Durant, etc. all re-upped the first go around (the RFA status and more money with bigger raises helps a lot there as well).
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Yes. I do think he would have left. I think the Decision would have happened in the exact same way. It was about making everything all about themselves.
That is just silly. James raised 2 million dollars for the Boys and Girls Club with the decision. He didn't make a single penny. Or did you forget that as well.
It is pretty obvious that you have a blind and irrational hate for Lebron James. Not sure why, not sure that I care, but you probably should deal with it before that blind irrational hate manifests in other areas of your life and causes problems for you.
-
And despite all of that, he still acts like a whiny, little girl.
I lost in the finals for the first time in three years, whhaahh. I sat out the last 6 1/2 minutes of the championship game because my teammates stink, whhaaah. Bosh and Wade are no longer good enough to play with me, whhaaah. I'm leaving to find teammates that are worthy of me, whhaaah.
The guy makes me want to puke.
Do you have links for those quotes, or are you getting physically ill thinking about a caricature that lives in your head?
Just my observations. :)
TP for the good sense of humor sir (or ma'am).
Thanks. I was a fan of his right up to game six of the 2010 Eastern conference final. The Celts were up 7 with 2 minutes left and being a pessimistic Boston fan, I was sure Lebron would take over and win the game singlehandedly. But instead, I watched him walk up and down the court and essentially give up. He had a tremendous game that day, but in the biggest moments facing an uphill challenge, he didnt want to compete because it was too hard and he would probably lose. I think that's a microcosm of his career and why I disrespect him... and enjoy mocking him. He's an incredible talent who doesn't like competition and wants everything handed to him.
-
during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
Athleticism? Yes. Skill? No way.
My thoughts exactly. Today's NBA seems to be about guys who can run like gazelles and jump like jackrabbits but aren't great outside shooters, ballhandlers, or post players grounded in the fundamentals.
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Yes. I do think he would have left. I think the Decision would have happened in the exact same way. It was about making everything all about themselves.
That is just silly. James raised 2 million dollars for the Boys and Girls Club with the decision. He didn't make a single penny. Or did you forget that as well.
It is pretty obvious that you have a blind and irrational hate for Lebron James. Not sure why, not sure that I care, but you probably should deal with it before that blind irrational hate manifests in other areas of your life and causes problems for you.
Don't throw the charity silliness. The decision was all about making him a "brand" and making him more money in the end. They gave all that money to charity in an attempt to make people think highly of LeBron, more branding.
Defend LeBron all you want, don't pretend "The Decision" wasn't a selfish self-promotion fest designed to make LeBron a bigger star who'd make more money.
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Yes. I do think he would have left. I think the Decision would have happened in the exact same way. It was about making everything all about themselves.
That is just silly. James raised 2 million dollars for the Boys and Girls Club with the decision. He didn't make a single penny. Or did you forget that as well.
It is pretty obvious that you have a blind and irrational hate for Lebron James. Not sure why, not sure that I care, but you probably should deal with it before that blind irrational hate manifests in other areas of your life and causes problems for you.
If I remember correctly that Boys and Girls Club lies within one of the wealthiest towns in America. I wonder if Bron has ever been back there or given them a cent since then. Just curious.
Yeah. My hate for Bron will cause me all sorts of problems. Seriously it'll be just like when my hate of Brett Farve made me turn to heroin and my hate of Kobe made me take up drinking. Maybe this time I'll take up roids mixed with energy drinks.
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Yes. I do think he would have left. I think the Decision would have happened in the exact same way. It was about making everything all about themselves.
That is just silly. James raised 2 million dollars for the Boys and Girls Club with the decision. He didn't make a single penny. Or did you forget that as well.
It is pretty obvious that you have a blind and irrational hate for Lebron James. Not sure why, not sure that I care, but you probably should deal with it before that blind irrational hate manifests in other areas of your life and causes problems for you.
Don't throw the charity silliness. The decision was all about making him a "brand" and making him more money in the end. They gave all that money to charity in an attempt to make people think highly of LeBron, more branding.
Defend LeBron all you want, don't pretend "The Decision" wasn't a selfish self-promotion fest designed to make LeBron a bigger star who'd make more money.
I dislike when people bring up the charity aspect of "The Decision." If LeBron cared so much about charity, he could've just written a check for $2M, or $10M, or whatever amount, without having to put on a show wherein he announced his "goodness" to the world. True charity is done under the radar. (Matthew 6:2-4)
-
during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
Athleticism? Yes. Skill? No way.
My thoughts exactly. Today's NBA seems to be about guys who can run like gazelles and jump like jackrabbits but aren't great outside shooters, ballhandlers, or post players grounded in the fundamentals.
I'm curious as to your window of "today's NBA."
-
"The Decision" was as much, if not more, about branding than raising money for the Boys & Girls Club. Plain & simple.
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Yes. I do think he would have left. I think the Decision would have happened in the exact same way. It was about making everything all about themselves.
That is just silly. James raised 2 million dollars for the Boys and Girls Club with the decision. He didn't make a single penny. Or did you forget that as well.
It is pretty obvious that you have a blind and irrational hate for Lebron James. Not sure why, not sure that I care, but you probably should deal with it before that blind irrational hate manifests in other areas of your life and causes problems for you.
Don't throw the charity silliness. The decision was all about making him a "brand" and making him more money in the end. They gave all that money to charity in an attempt to make people think highly of LeBron, more branding.
Defend LeBron all you want, don't pretend "The Decision" wasn't a selfish self-promotion fest designed to make LeBron a bigger star who'd make more money.
I dislike when people bring up the charity aspect of "The Decision." If LeBron cared so much about charity, he could've just written a check for $2M, or $10M, or whatever amount, without having to put on a show wherein he announced his "goodness" to the world. True charity is done under the radar. (Matthew 6:2-4)
I loved when Lebron donated uniforms to his high school football team which cost roughly $10k. He organized an outdoor event on a stage with music and a light show. The stage filled with smoke from which Lebron emerged wearing a uniform specially designed for the event. He struck a pose and froze. The kids all rushed the stage and celebrated Lebron with Lebron. He turned a kind act of charity into a gross celebration of himself.
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Yes. I do think he would have left. I think the Decision would have happened in the exact same way. It was about making everything all about themselves.
That is just silly. James raised 2 million dollars for the Boys and Girls Club with the decision. He didn't make a single penny. Or did you forget that as well.
It is pretty obvious that you have a blind and irrational hate for Lebron James. Not sure why, not sure that I care, but you probably should deal with it before that blind irrational hate manifests in other areas of your life and causes problems for you.
Don't throw the charity silliness. The decision was all about making him a "brand" and making him more money in the end. They gave all that money to charity in an attempt to make people think highly of LeBron, more branding.
Defend LeBron all you want, don't pretend "The Decision" wasn't a selfish self-promotion fest designed to make LeBron a bigger star who'd make more money.
I dislike when people bring up the charity aspect of "The Decision." If LeBron cared so much about charity, he could've just written a check for $2M, or $10M, or whatever amount, without having to put on a show wherein he announced his "goodness" to the world. True charity is done under the radar. (Matthew 6:2-4)
I loved when Lebron donated uniforms to his high school football team which cost roughly $10k. He organized an outdoor event on a stage with music and a light show. The stage filled with smoke from which Lebron emerged wearing a uniform specially designed for the event. He struck a pose and froze. The kids all rushed the stage and celebrated Lebron with Lebron. He turned a kind act of charity into a gross celebration of himself.
Didn't Michael Jackson used to do stuff like that? But hey. He's still a great player.
You're hate of Lebron might give you serious problems.
-
during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
Athleticism? Yes. Skill? No way.
My thoughts exactly. Today's NBA seems to be about guys who can run like gazelles and jump like jackrabbits but aren't great outside shooters, ballhandlers, or post players grounded in the fundamentals.
I'm curious as to your window of "today's NBA."
Yeah, this post could've been pulled out of a time capsule from 1976.
-
during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
Athleticism? Yes. Skill? No way.
My thoughts exactly. Today's NBA seems to be about guys who can run like gazelles and jump like jackrabbits but aren't great outside shooters, ballhandlers, or post players grounded in the fundamentals.
I'm curious as to your window of "today's NBA."
I feel like Jordan's arrival was the beginning of a new era, one in which teams began to move toward highly athletic wings and lots of isolation play, and this trend was exacerbated by the decline of the traditional big man--old-school, post-player bigs such as Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson, Smits, McHale, Parish.
Not that there weren't highly athletic players before Jordan (e.g., Oscar Robertson), and not that there aren't some good traditional bigs now (e.g., Tim Duncan), but I feel like the emphasis has reversed, with most teams building around the Jordan-Kobe-Carmelo-LeBron-Durant types.
-
Questions:
Does anyone think LeBron would have left Cleveland if that Cavs had been able to draft the kind of talent that Oklahoma City did?
Yes. I do think he would have left. I think the Decision would have happened in the exact same way. It was about making everything all about themselves.
That is just silly. James raised 2 million dollars for the Boys and Girls Club with the decision. He didn't make a single penny. Or did you forget that as well.
It is pretty obvious that you have a blind and irrational hate for Lebron James. Not sure why, not sure that I care, but you probably should deal with it before that blind irrational hate manifests in other areas of your life and causes problems for you.
Don't throw the charity silliness. The decision was all about making him a "brand" and making him more money in the end. They gave all that money to charity in an attempt to make people think highly of LeBron, more branding.
Defend LeBron all you want, don't pretend "The Decision" wasn't a selfish self-promotion fest designed to make LeBron a bigger star who'd make more money.
I dislike when people bring up the charity aspect of "The Decision." If LeBron cared so much about charity, he could've just written a check for $2M, or $10M, or whatever amount, without having to put on a show wherein he announced his "goodness" to the world. True charity is done under the radar. (Matthew 6:2-4)
I loved when Lebron donated uniforms to his high school football team which cost roughly $10k. He organized an outdoor event on a stage with music and a light show. The stage filled with smoke from which Lebron emerged wearing a uniform specially designed for the event. He struck a pose and froze. The kids all rushed the stage and celebrated Lebron with Lebron. He turned a kind act of charity into a gross celebration of himself.
Didn't Michael Jackson used to do stuff like that? But hey. He's still a great player.
You're hate of Lebron might give you serious problems.
Michael Jackson was a deeply disturbed person and possibly a pedophile... I don't understand your point. Your adoring fandom of the man has you writing nonsense.
-
during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
Athleticism? Yes. Skill? No way.
My thoughts exactly. Today's NBA seems to be about guys who can run like gazelles and jump like jackrabbits but aren't great outside shooters, ballhandlers, or post players grounded in the fundamentals.
I'm curious as to your window of "today's NBA."
Yeah, this post could've been pulled out of a time capsule from 1976.
Well, I was born in '76, so for me, growing up in the '80s, the NBA was mostly a big man's league. A few of the big names were highly athletic guard/wing types (Jordan and Magic, for example), but most of the famous players were big guys who spent most of their time in the paint (Ewing, McHale, Parish, Kareem, Olajuwon, Robinson, Karl Malone, Barkley), many of them with highly polished post games.
-
during the time when the NBA's athleticism and skill is at an all time high.
Athleticism? Yes. Skill? No way.
My thoughts exactly. Today's NBA seems to be about guys who can run like gazelles and jump like jackrabbits but aren't great outside shooters, ballhandlers, or post players grounded in the fundamentals.
I'm curious as to your window of "today's NBA."
Yeah, this post could've been pulled out of a time capsule from 1976.
Well, I was born in '76, so for me, growing up in the '80s, the NBA was mostly a big man's league. A few of the big names were highly athletic guard/wing types (Jordan and Magic, for example), but most of the famous players were big guys who spent most of their time in the paint (Ewing, McHale, Parish, Kareem, Olajuwon, Robinson, Karl Malone, Barkley), many of them with highly polished post games.
I just mean that guys like Dr J, David Thompson, Gervin, Frazier, etc got the same knocks - all athleticism and flash, not fundamentally sound. Since the first couple decades of the league there's always been a crop of super-athletic wings and guards criticized for being all sizzle and no steak.