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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ianboyextreme on May 24, 2013, 02:44:02 AM

Title: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 24, 2013, 02:44:02 AM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: KG Living Legend on May 24, 2013, 02:55:15 AM

 Yeah that team could win a title.

 If that center was some type of genetic hybrid of Bill Russell, Shaq, Kareem, Jordan, and Bird. It's like the movie twins with Arnold. They make a milkshake The body and strength of Shaq, The defense of Russel, Kareem's sky-hook and Bruce lee moves, Bird's shooting touch and BBIQ, Jordan's athleticism and clutch gene, and well throw in the dream shake from Hakeem. Then we could win it easy.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LooseCannon on May 24, 2013, 03:00:09 AM
I see problems if you don't get some 3-point shooting from the 4/5 spots or unless Avery Bradley develops into a deadly catch-and-shoot three-point shooter from multiple spots on the floor.

I'd want a Bill Laimbeer kind of center to go with that lineup.  Ideally, I would want to get a defensive anchor at center who is not tethered to the paint but can be useful away from the basket and a stretch 4 who hit some threes and not be a defensive liability, and I would trade Sullinger to get one of those.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Kiorrik on May 24, 2013, 03:06:01 AM

 Yeah that team could win a title.

 If that center was some type of genetic hybrid of Bill Russell, Shaq, Kareem, Jordan, and Bird. It's like the movie twins with Arnold. They make a milkshake The body and strength of Shaq, The defense of Russel, Kareem's sky-hook and Bruce lee moves, Bird's shooting touch and BBIQ, Jordan's athleticism and clutch gene, and well throw in the dream shake from Hakeem. Then we could win it easy.
Not likely:
(http://www.ditdoetdirk.nl/crap/docweight.jpg)
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LatterDayCelticsfan on May 24, 2013, 03:13:20 AM
Or Sully develops into that Rodman style defensive anchor,  Green becomes the consistent inside-outside attacking threat he should be. He`s consistently driving to the rim together with Rondo and drawing defences on themselves resulting in more wide open 3s for Bradley and Lee, who`s shooting percentages spike upward As a result. Bam! We have a much better offence.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: chambers on May 24, 2013, 04:43:13 AM
*Rondo
*klay Thompson
*green
*sully
*Cousins

Inside outside monster of a team like a refined version of Memphis, only we have better shooters.
*Rondo is an upgrade over Conley.
*klay is an upgrade over Allen on offense so teams can't over help on our bigs
*green becomes our version of Rudy Gay, an insanely athletic wing scorer who can shoot the 3 and attack the rim when needed. He can defend the other elite small forwards whilst waiting on the three point line in e corner while Thompson roams looking for dishes from Cousins and Sully.
20ppg/ 5 rebounds/5 assists at 9 million a year. Less than half price of Gay.
* Sullinger is a modern Zac Randolph who does all the dirty work and can shoot the 15 footer to draw the opposing PF away from the basket for Rondo and our center to drive or go to work.
Develops his back to basket game and abuses all pf's in the post. His excellent passing in college has translated to the NBA and as soon as opponents try to double him he finds an open Jeff Green or Thompson for an easy three.
* Cousins is our Marc Gasol. Doc has taught him he doesn't necessarily have to score to be the best big man in the NBA but his length, strength, footwork and passing ability make him a triple threat. He can score on anyone 1v1 and he's grown up after realizing he can't win a championship nor win without the help of his teammates.

Combined with Sullinger he can stretch his defender to the elbow and leave the paint open for Green, Rondo and Sully to do their thing when we need to attack.
Sully and Cousins become the best rebounding tandem in the NBA.


Focused on defense to compete with bulls, heat and thunder for next 5 years.

Had a post on how to acquire Cousins here t didn't garner any interest, take a look and tell me what you think

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=65059.0
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Afam on May 24, 2013, 04:45:54 AM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.
.

You Can't be serious with that comment. Please tell me that you are joking. That team will barely make the playoffs not to even talking about winning a championship.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on May 24, 2013, 05:37:25 AM
Is this center 2011 Dwight Howard?
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LGC88 on May 24, 2013, 06:34:14 AM
Is this center 2011 Dwight Howard?

DW will never win a title unless he suddenly gets struck by maturity. The guy was a good fit for desperate housewives.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 24, 2013, 06:51:47 AM
No offense but your SG brings no offense to the table, I am a homer too, but this beyond homer.  Add a SG who can pipe in 25 PPG and we might have a shot, AB with his 10 PPG ain't going to cut it.  Sully would also have to be a 15 10 guy.  Sully is never going to be a Dennis Rodman defensive anchor.   I think he could be a Carlos Boozer type though.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: 2short on May 24, 2013, 07:15:02 AM
I actually think that is a good squad (not title quality though) .  Need to put Roy Hibbert into center posistion and then its an indy look a like.  HOWEVER Avery Bradley would need to step his game way up on the offensive end, love his defense but he'd need to get a handle and play like he did the previous year for that 20 odd game streak he had going.
rondo playing well 15 pts, 10 a, 4 rbs
bradley 15 pts, 4 a and great defense
green 20 pts, 5 rb, 4 a
sully 12 pts, 10 rb

WAIT Shav 10 pts, 10 rbs   problem solved  8)
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Roy H. on May 24, 2013, 07:22:24 AM
Since Rondo took over a primary role, we haven't won a title despite surrounding him with KG + Pierce + Ray.  That's not a knock on Rondo, but rather is proof of how hard it is to win a title in this league.

I'm not sure that our path to a title becomes easier when you replace our Hall of Famers with significantly inferior players.  Unless the unnamed center is Prime Shaq, I'm not optimistic.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: TripleOT on May 24, 2013, 08:48:43 AM
If LeBron is the center, maybe.   
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: pearljammer10 on May 24, 2013, 08:49:21 AM
If that center is bill Russell than sure... But he's not.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: TripleOT on May 24, 2013, 08:55:33 AM
Seriously,  Rondo, AB, Green, Sully and LeBron would win the title, assuming there were a few vetmin sharpshooters and utility bigs on the bench.  I know that Ray Allen will ringchase on the cheap. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: MBz on May 24, 2013, 09:04:46 AM
No outside shooting and not enough scoring out of the back court. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: wdleehi on May 24, 2013, 09:05:30 AM
Is the C the next Shaq?




Even then....



Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: dreamgreen on May 24, 2013, 09:06:54 AM
No it will not.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Chris on May 24, 2013, 09:11:18 AM
Maybe if the Center is a healthy Dwight Howard...and the 6th man is, I don't know, Steph Curry?
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Sketch5 on May 24, 2013, 09:51:44 AM
Spacing would be horrible. Green is the only out side threat.

I don't know why people are so high on AB being the starting SG. Hasn't had a healthy/good season to prove he should start. He's had nice stretch's, but nothing to win him the starting spot full time.

AB as of now is a really good back up SG. A guy who can come off the bench get some steals and keep the other team's bench from either getting the lead or increasing it.

Maybe if PP gets traded to Dallas they can talk them into sending Mayo over. No he's not perfect, but he's a better scorer than AB and thats some thing this team will need. But I'd prefer a spot of shooter for Rondo and Green to kick out to when they drive, but those don't come around very often.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticG1 on May 24, 2013, 09:59:09 AM
Love the comments about who the Center would need to be cause that's what everyone is thinking.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticsFan9 on May 24, 2013, 10:05:32 AM
Before I give my thoughts on the topic, could the OP explain WHY he thinks that core will win a title in the next couple years?
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CoachBo on May 24, 2013, 10:11:34 AM
Seriously,  Rondo, AB, Green, Sully and LeBron would win the title, assuming there were a few vetmin sharpshooters and utility bigs on the bench.  I know that Ray Allen will ringchase on the cheap.

So would LeBron, Carrottop, Gilbert Gottfried, Jimmy Fallon and Melissa Rivers.

You forget the Stern Factor with LeBron.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LEHGOCELTICS on May 24, 2013, 12:52:27 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/mHM3DMk.gif)

LOL! Thanks for the good laugh.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Clench123 on May 24, 2013, 01:00:36 PM
I would really like to have whatever you're smoking.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: staticcc on May 24, 2013, 01:01:55 PM
Stop overrating our players lol
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: staticcc on May 24, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.

You really are boy extreme! It can happen if Lebron changed his last name to "Green"
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: D.o.s. on May 24, 2013, 01:10:59 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.
(http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/1/8/7/6/5/3/on-weed-100016389142.jpeg)
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Josh88 on May 24, 2013, 01:33:03 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.

and we will never hear that anywhere else
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: celtic -_- pride on May 24, 2013, 02:04:13 PM
maybe in 2k13 on pro difficulty. in the real world we wont make it out of the first round if we even get there with that roster
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 24, 2013, 03:02:00 PM
Before I give my thoughts on the topic, could the OP explain WHY he thinks that core will win a title in the next couple years?
Because I am of the belief that Rondo will play the rest of his prime as he does in the playoffs aka a top 5 player in basketball.

I am also of the belief that Avery Bradley will become a high 30's 3 point shooter and that he and Rondo will be one of the most disruptive back courts of all time.

I also believe that Jeff Green will become a 21-24 ppg scorer and be a go to guy at the end of games as he has already shown this year.

I believe Sullinger will become a legit 3rd option and continue to be the clutch rebounder that he has already begun to show.

As for the Center, whether it is Gorgui Dieng, Greg Oden, or whoever (I still believe it will be KG next year), I think they will be a legitimate option on offense as well as help lead one of the best defenses in the league.

I think this will be a team that will run like mad off of stops but also be able to perform in the half court.

Im glad everyone liked this thread enough that you all decided to take the time to find an appropriate gif to go along with your comment.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Evantime34 on May 24, 2013, 03:16:39 PM
For that to happen we need the following dominos to fall
1. Rondo continues his upward shooting trend, pulling a Jason Kidd and eventually shooting 40% from 3.
2. Bradley becomes a dead eye shooter, and goes from being second team all defense to unanimous first team.
3. Green develops a left hand and scores 20+ a game while giving great defense.
4. Sullinger becomes top 5 in the NBA in rebounding, loses some weight, and becomes a knock down shooter
5. The center is an elite shot blocker, can get out on screens similar to KG when he first got here, demands a consistent double team with a deadly low post game and defelcts a ton of passes.
6. We get a bench player that can come in and fill it up, but in a high percentage way
7. Add An energy bench player that increases the activity level of the whole team with his effort.

I think all these things are possible and I even believe some might happen, but I'm not optimistic enough to think they all will.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: PhoSita on May 24, 2013, 03:33:23 PM
Like others said, unless the "Center" is on the level of Tim Duncan or Shaq in their prime, I respectfully disagree with the title of the thread.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics18 on May 24, 2013, 03:36:48 PM
Before I give my thoughts on the topic, could the OP explain WHY he thinks that core will win a title in the next couple years?
Because I am of the belief that Rondo will play the rest of his prime as he does in the playoffs aka a top 5 player in basketball.

I am also of the belief that Avery Bradley will become a high 30's 3 point shooter and that he and Rondo will be one of the most disruptive back courts of all time.

I also believe that Jeff Green will become a 21-24 ppg scorer and be a go to guy at the end of games as he has already shown this year.

I believe Sullinger will become a legit 3rd option and continue to be the clutch rebounder that he has already begun to show.

As for the Center, whether it is Gorgui Dieng, Greg Oden, or whoever (I still believe it will be KG next year), I think they will be a legitimate option on offense as well as help lead one of the best defenses in the league.

I think this will be a team that will run like mad off of stops but also be able to perform in the half court.

Im glad everyone liked this thread enough that you all decided to take the time to find an appropriate gif to go along with your comment.

Tommy point.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 24, 2013, 03:37:50 PM
For that to happen we need the following dominos to fall
1. Rondo continues his upward shooting trend, pulling a Jason Kidd and eventually shooting 40% from 3.
2. Bradley becomes a dead eye shooter, and goes from being second team all defense to unanimous first team.
3. Green develops a left hand and scores 20+ a game while giving great defense.
4. Sullinger becomes top 5 in the NBA in rebounding, loses some weight, and becomes a knock down shooter
5. The center is an elite shot blocker, can get out on screens similar to KG when he first got here, demands a consistent double team with a deadly low post game and defelcts a ton of passes.
6. We get a bench player that can come in and fill it up, but in a high percentage way
7. Add An energy bench player that increases the activity level of the whole team with his effort.

I think all these things are possible and I even believe some might happen, but I'm not optimistic enough to think they all will.
This is along the lines of what I believe except for Rondo becoming a 40% 3 pt shooter.

I think Avery was undoubtedly first team THIS year.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: gpap on May 24, 2013, 03:43:20 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.

I am just curious as to what you've seen that leads you to believe that is a championship core?

We've yet to see Rondo play on his own without two vets like Pierce/KG, Bradley is a decent defender and mediocre scorer, Jeff Green still hasn't shown me that he can consistently bring it every night and Sully only has played half a season.

Also, your claim that "only fans with self imposed misery" don't believe this is a championship team is a pretty bold claim, don't you think?
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 24, 2013, 04:01:45 PM
Before I give my thoughts on the topic, could the OP explain WHY he thinks that core will win a title in the next couple years?
Because I am of the belief that Rondo will play the rest of his prime as he does in the playoffs aka a top 5 player in basketball.

I am also of the belief that Avery Bradley will become a high 30's 3 point shooter and that he and Rondo will be one of the most disruptive back courts of all time.

I also believe that Jeff Green will become a 21-24 ppg scorer and be a go to guy at the end of games as he has already shown this year.

I believe Sullinger will become a legit 3rd option and continue to be the clutch rebounder that he has already begun to show.

As for the Center, whether it is Gorgui Dieng, Greg Oden, or whoever (I still believe it will be KG next year), I think they will be a legitimate option on offense as well as help lead one of the best defenses in the league.

I think this will be a team that will run like mad off of stops but also be able to perform in the half court.

Im glad everyone liked this thread enough that you all decided to take the time to find an appropriate gif to go along with your comment.

hard to argue with some of this.
i think your worst points are rondo shooting 40% and sully being a top 5 rebounder.
but to those points, there's scientific evidence that those with ACL tears come back with better shooting. And Sully has already lost weight and won't have back issues any more.
i'm already in the group that thinks jg will be 21-24ppg
I also see nothing wrong with what you said about AB

so...speaking in FUTURE terms...as in not next season but seasons AFTERWARDS, I don't see why it's not a possibility. people seem to think you're talking about next season. and even wyc thinks this core will be too good to get us into the lottery.

I think for next season, there will be too much to develop. not sure sully and jg as a #2 scorer will be mentally prepared for the playoffs.

and for those who are talking about spacing, let's just look at how the nuggets overachieved with no real spacing. and yes, they too had a first round exit, but we could be singing a different tune had they had gallinari or actually decided to put someone on curry.

at any rate...i appreciate ur optimisim OP
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: indeedproceed on May 24, 2013, 04:08:45 PM
Before I give my thoughts on the topic, could the OP explain WHY he thinks that core will win a title in the next couple years?
Because I am of the belief that Rondo will play the rest of his prime as he does in the playoffs aka a top 5 player in basketball.

I am also of the belief that Avery Bradley will become a high 30's 3 point shooter and that he and Rondo will be one of the most disruptive back courts of all time.

I also believe that Jeff Green will become a 21-24 ppg scorer and be a go to guy at the end of games as he has already shown this year.

I believe Sullinger will become a legit 3rd option and continue to be the clutch rebounder that he has already begun to show.

As for the Center, whether it is Gorgui Dieng, Greg Oden, or whoever (I still believe it will be KG next year), I think they will be a legitimate option on offense as well as help lead one of the best defenses in the league.

I think this will be a team that will run like mad off of stops but also be able to perform in the half court.

Im glad everyone liked this thread enough that you all decided to take the time to find an appropriate gif to go along with your comment.

hard to argue with some of this.
i think your worst points are rondo shooting 40% and sully being a top 5 rebounder.
but to those points, there's scientific evidence that those with ACL tears come back with better shooting.

You got a link for that? That sounds fishy.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: D.o.s. on May 24, 2013, 04:18:04 PM
I would like to point out that I firmly believe that not all opinions hold equal weight.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 24, 2013, 04:19:05 PM
Before I give my thoughts on the topic, could the OP explain WHY he thinks that core will win a title in the next couple years?
Because I am of the belief that Rondo will play the rest of his prime as he does in the playoffs aka a top 5 player in basketball.

I am also of the belief that Avery Bradley will become a high 30's 3 point shooter and that he and Rondo will be one of the most disruptive back courts of all time.

I also believe that Jeff Green will become a 21-24 ppg scorer and be a go to guy at the end of games as he has already shown this year.

I believe Sullinger will become a legit 3rd option and continue to be the clutch rebounder that he has already begun to show.

As for the Center, whether it is Gorgui Dieng, Greg Oden, or whoever (I still believe it will be KG next year), I think they will be a legitimate option on offense as well as help lead one of the best defenses in the league.

I think this will be a team that will run like mad off of stops but also be able to perform in the half court.

Im glad everyone liked this thread enough that you all decided to take the time to find an appropriate gif to go along with your comment.

hard to argue with some of this.
i think your worst points are rondo shooting 40% and sully being a top 5 rebounder.
but to those points, there's scientific evidence that those with ACL tears come back with better shooting.

You got a link for that? That sounds fishy.

there was a whole post about it here lol
how those with ACL tears come back with better jumpers because it's essentially all they can do as they recover

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323384604578326451812887938.html

i guess it's not 'scientific evidence' but there are stats that help prove the point.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: blink on May 24, 2013, 04:23:32 PM
For that to happen we need the following dominos to fall
1. Rondo continues his upward shooting trend, pulling a Jason Kidd and eventually shooting 40% from 3.
2. Bradley becomes a dead eye shooter, and goes from being second team all defense to unanimous first team.
3. Green develops a left hand and scores 20+ a game while giving great defense.
4. Sullinger becomes top 5 in the NBA in rebounding, loses some weight, and becomes a knock down shooter
5. The center is an elite shot blocker, can get out on screens similar to KG when he first got here, demands a consistent double team with a deadly low post game and defelcts a ton of passes.
6. We get a bench player that can come in and fill it up, but in a high percentage way
7. Add An energy bench player that increases the activity level of the whole team with his effort.

I think all these things are possible and I even believe some might happen, but I'm not optimistic enough to think they all will.

Yeah, that is a whole lot of good fortune smiling down on us if all of those things come together.  I have to admire the optimism of the original post, but I honestly don't see this happening.  With Rondo and Green I think we know what we have.  They can be solid starters on a contender.  With AB and Sully I think the jury is still out.  They have played great in short stretches but...

If we were able to get a 2 guard that can flat out score, and a great post player (prefer a C) to add to those 4 then we might be a dangerous team again.  Even though I love AB, he would need to improve his scoring a lot for this to work.  If he can't improve his scoring, then I see him as the killer D weapon off the bench, either 6th or 7th man.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: indeedproceed on May 24, 2013, 04:26:11 PM
Before I give my thoughts on the topic, could the OP explain WHY he thinks that core will win a title in the next couple years?
Because I am of the belief that Rondo will play the rest of his prime as he does in the playoffs aka a top 5 player in basketball.

I am also of the belief that Avery Bradley will become a high 30's 3 point shooter and that he and Rondo will be one of the most disruptive back courts of all time.

I also believe that Jeff Green will become a 21-24 ppg scorer and be a go to guy at the end of games as he has already shown this year.

I believe Sullinger will become a legit 3rd option and continue to be the clutch rebounder that he has already begun to show.

As for the Center, whether it is Gorgui Dieng, Greg Oden, or whoever (I still believe it will be KG next year), I think they will be a legitimate option on offense as well as help lead one of the best defenses in the league.

I think this will be a team that will run like mad off of stops but also be able to perform in the half court.

Im glad everyone liked this thread enough that you all decided to take the time to find an appropriate gif to go along with your comment.

hard to argue with some of this.
i think your worst points are rondo shooting 40% and sully being a top 5 rebounder.
but to those points, there's scientific evidence that those with ACL tears come back with better shooting.

You got a link for that? That sounds fishy.

there was a whole post about it here lol
how those with ACL tears come back with better jumpers because it's essentially all they can do as they recover

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323384604578326451812887938.html

i guess it's not 'scientific evidence' but there are stats that help prove the point.

Well, I guess that's something to be thankful for then. TP for the link!
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: slamtheking on May 24, 2013, 04:41:38 PM

 Yeah that team could win a title.

 If that center was some type of genetic hybrid of Bill Russell, Shaq, Kareem, Jordan, and Bird. It's like the movie twins with Arnold. They make a milkshake The body and strength of Shaq, The defense of Russel, Kareem's sky-hook and Bruce lee moves, Bird's shooting touch and BBIQ, Jordan's athleticism and clutch gene, and well throw in the dream shake from Hakeem. Then we could win it easy.
Not likely:
(http://www.ditdoetdirk.nl/crap/docweight.jpg)
LOVE THAT DOC PICTURE AND QUOTE!!!   TP for you. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 24, 2013, 06:59:36 PM
I think people are skippng over the OPs point that he's not talking about this upcoming season..
I think with that core we are 7/8th seed this upcoming season, WHICH I think may be overachieving for them. If that happens and we get the right pieces, I'm not sure how not.

Rondo continues hitting 45% of his jumpers and even 30-35% of his 3s this season, takes on more of a scoring load + AB increasing his percentages 5 or so % puts him at 36% from the 3 and 45% from the field = this is absolutely possible thanks to the stats and its evident RR been working on his jumper and I expect ABs %s to go back up with healed shoulders and more focus on being an SG not a PG.

This right here, I think, will make a WORLD of difference. At some point you have to start respecting RR and ABs shots. Let's not forget, that AB was shooting 49% from the field and 40% from the 3 before he got hurt 2011-2012 season. I'm not sure why so many of us have forgotten this. He can shoot.

I think Jeff Green is then forced into the #2 go to guy position...maybe even first. And I don't think he'll produce right away, but I think he and Rondo will do great things. I also am not sure why people think 20+ ppg/5.5rebs/1 block a game is too much for Jeff. That's essentially what he did this past season as a starter.

If he keeps that production AND develops a left (which can happen in 2 seasons), I don't see why he wouldn't be even better than what we imagined. Let me also note I'm not a person who thinks JG isn't AGGRESSIVE enough. I just think that's his style of play, so I don't count on that. In other words, JG played FINE to me.

Sully will be someone to look at but he's stood up to Tyson Chandler -- that's when I knew he was great. Top 5 rebonder? Eh but hard worker in the post, def. Work on his post game, we know he can hit the jumper -- coach will just have to do that for us. Maybe work into a pick n pop game for he and RR.

How are these things not solid for the 2014-2015 season? I think if we keep JET, even Lee on the bench, that'd be spectacular. If you switch out Eric Gordon for AB, I'm not sure...Gordon can still shoot. But he's expensive.

I think you have to keep Shav even if it's just for depth purposes. And bring back LB or keep J. Craw for bench scorer purposes.
Have to also keep in mind that this starting 5 is under 30 even in 2 years. So that, too.

It's really hard to argue against some of this esp thinking in 2 years and considering development.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 24, 2013, 07:10:25 PM
On the flip side, if I'm totally pessimistic

I can say Rondo will come back a doozy -- I find that hard to understand. He played on his partially torn ACL. It's also a partially torn ACL. But we'll have to see.

AB could continue to regress -- but we could attribute his poor numbers to his poor shooting and his poor PG skills. Even if he shoots what he did 2012 season (40 3FG and 49FG), AB is probably at 12-15ish ppg rather than 9ppg (on 31 3FG and 40FG)

Jeff Green regresses -- I'm a JG fanatic...I don't see him regressing. I'm even hoping this upcoming season is his 'Lebron Game 6' season...where he just realizes he's unstoppable and a beast. Not likely to happen, but him regressing? I'm not sure. I think the East and this team suit him a lil better.

Sully comes back and is a dooz -- I believe Sully was feeling fine a couple months ago. I could be making this up, but I remember hearing something about him feeling great. He's also lost weight.

This Center -- Who knows? Big AL wouldn't work? Paul Millsap? I'd take those guys and think they'd be suitable. Hey, what if Fab develops! lol -- this is the most pessimistic of them

and also, we need to be a traditional big team...these are the only people causing problems for the Heat. and we need to beat the Heat.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ScoobyDoo on May 24, 2013, 07:43:44 PM
Dear Chambers:

*Rondo
*klay Thompson
*green
*sully
*Cousins

That is a "sick' team. Please get it done.

Thank you.

The management
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: indeedproceed on May 24, 2013, 07:52:16 PM
I think people are skippng over the OPs point that he's not talking about this upcoming season..

The OP based a lot of his 'you're all gonna be wrong' sentiment from the notion that people (including myself said they wouldn't win more than 35 games without KG/Pierce and without substantial additions.

And we were talking about only next season, not 3 or 4 years from now.

But to address this, it's also quite unlikely that in 3 years this core will still be intact. None of Jeff Green, Sully, or Rondo or Bradley are true #1 guys on a contender. Hopefully some of them will be shipped out to go find that guy. Or, we'll be so bad that holding on to Rondo or Jeff just won't make a ton of sense and we'll look to trade them.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LooseCannon on May 24, 2013, 08:28:06 PM
But to address this, it's also quite unlikely that in 3 years this core will still be intact. None of Jeff Green, Sully, or Rondo or Bradley are true #1 guys on a contender. Hopefully some of them will be shipped out to go find that guy. Or, we'll be so bad that holding on to Rondo or Jeff just won't make a ton of sense and we'll look to trade them.

I think Rondo and Green can be the #2 and #3 guys on a contender and I am hoping Sullinger will develop into the Al Jefferson role of young pyrite who is used to pry away the real deal from a team with an All-Star caliber player going nowhere and willing to trade a mediocre present for a brighter future.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: eugen on May 24, 2013, 08:37:12 PM
Sorry Sully and AB can not give us a title
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 24, 2013, 08:48:49 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.
If our starting lineup is Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully and "a center" (Melo?) that team wins 22-35 games. 

Massive warped-view homerism.  This team was awful without KG on the floor.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 24, 2013, 08:53:52 PM
Wait.. by "Core" do you mean "a bench"... post-injury Rondo as the 6th man, Bradley as defensive pest playing spot minutes, Sully as a solid backup tweener, Green as the bench scorer.  Yeah, I could see that being an excellent championship bench core for the 2019 Andrew Wiggins Boston Celtics.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticConcourse on May 24, 2013, 09:25:01 PM
Rondo-[prime JET]-Green-[really good version of Sully]-[12-6 guy at worst] is better, but probably still not a contender...
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 24, 2013, 09:44:44 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.
If our starting lineup is Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully and "a center" (Melo?) that team wins 22-35 games. 

Massive warped-view homerism.  This team was awful without KG on the floor.
Its ammusing how nonexistent your ability to judge talent is. its ok. Youre not alone. I will laugh in all of your faces next year. Funny that I have to say that to Celtics "fans" but I guess that's what this forum mostly consists of.

And no, that doesnt mean that if you dont think that team is a championship team then you are bad fan, but it definitely seems like you and a number of other posters are actually rooting for them to suck. You will be so wrong.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: PAOBoston on May 24, 2013, 10:34:37 PM
OMG. That would be the worst shooting team in the history of basketball. Who's gonna score on that team besides Green? That team is TRAGIC!!!!
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: gpap on May 24, 2013, 10:51:51 PM
OMG. That would be the worst shooting team in the history of basketball. Who's gonna score on that team besides Green? That team is TRAGIC!!!!

Yup, suddenly the Bobcats and Magic don't seem so bad.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 24, 2013, 10:55:59 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.
If our starting lineup is Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully and "a center" (Melo?) that team wins 22-35 games. 

Massive warped-view homerism.  This team was awful without KG on the floor.
Its ammusing how nonexistent your ability to judge talent is. its ok. Youre not alone. I will laugh in all of your faces next year. Funny that I have to say that to Celtics "fans" but I guess that's what this forum mostly consists of.

And no, that doesnt mean that if you dont think that team is a championship team then you are bad fan, but it definitely seems like you and a number of other posters are actually rooting for them to suck. You will be so wrong.
Actually, technically you're right.  If KG retires and Pierce gets cut for nothing, we essentially have zero hope of competing and I'm hoping that we tank.  So in essence, I'm rooting for them to suck.  I'd like us to have a top pick in 2014... because a core of Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully and "center" is a 8th seed at the very most... and being mediocre in this league is a good way to continue being mediocre indefinitely.  Adding mid-round low-impact draft picks and puttering along as also-rans until the end of time.  No fun.  I'd rather have a top 5 lotto pick in the huge 2014 draft where we potentially could land a franchise player.  I don't see any other way for us to land a superstar.   

You apparently have a VERY high impression of Avery Bradley and Jared Sullinger.   They are average young prospects.  YOu couldn't get a lotto pick for either of those guys straight up... even in this horrible draft.

I love Rondo, but Rondo probably isn't even making the all-star team next year. 

Jeff Green is a quality starter-level talent.  You could probably win a title if he's your 4th or 5th best player.

I dig your enthusiasm, but it's way off-base.  This team was terrible without KG on the floor.  Even fully  healthy WITH KG and Pierce, this team was below .500.  I'm a fan of the Celtics through the good times and the bad... we're in the midst of the bad times, my friend.  No point in lying to myself about it.   
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: fantankerous on May 24, 2013, 11:03:57 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.
If our starting lineup is Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully and "a center" (Melo?) that team wins 22-35 games. 

Massive warped-view homerism.  This team was awful without KG on the floor.
Its ammusing how nonexistent your ability to judge talent is. its ok. Youre not alone. I will laugh in all of your faces next year. Funny that I have to say that to Celtics "fans" but I guess that's what this forum mostly consists of.

And no, that doesnt mean that if you dont think that team is a championship team then you are bad fan, but it definitely seems like you and a number of other posters are actually rooting for them to suck. You will be so wrong.

The tone of the OP in this whole thread has been downright offensive.  I would suggest that perhaps your virulence is a symptom of your own misgivings about such a lineup. 

Freud aside, I'm all for this lineup next season.  I think it puts us in contention for a top pick.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 24, 2013, 11:06:53 PM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.
If our starting lineup is Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully and "a center" (Melo?) that team wins 22-35 games. 

Massive warped-view homerism.  This team was awful without KG on the floor.
Its ammusing how nonexistent your ability to judge talent is. its ok. Youre not alone. I will laugh in all of your faces next year. Funny that I have to say that to Celtics "fans" but I guess that's what this forum mostly consists of.

And no, that doesnt mean that if you dont think that team is a championship team then you are bad fan, but it definitely seems like you and a number of other posters are actually rooting for them to suck. You will be so wrong.

The tone of the OP in this whole thread has been downright offensive.  I would suggest that perhaps your virulence is a symptom of your own misgivings about such a lineup. 

Freud aside, I'm all for this lineup next season.  I think it puts us in contention for a top pick.
As negative as I am about that lineup, I do fear that Rondo and company is just good enough to play us out of a top 5 pick.  Rondo's a talented guy when healthy.  Sadly, a core of Rondo, Bradley, Green, SUlly and "Center' is definitely too bad to win a title.. and probably just good enough to miss out on the Wiggins sweepstakes.  Maybe Rondo will pull a D-Rose and skip a season so we can improve our tank chances.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: #1P4P on May 24, 2013, 11:55:17 PM
Looks like the Celtics' version of the Timberwolves sans Pekovic.

If that center isn't KG (or an All Star caliber center) and Pierce isn't coming off of the bench (if it's KG), that team is a 30-40 win team. With KG and Pierce, it's a 40-50 win team.

Rondo is a 2nd option on a contender; Green at this point is a 4th, but has the potential to be a 3rd as early as next year; and Bradley is a 6th option that could become a legitimate 5th option. Sullinger needs at least 2 more years to become the 2nd option on a Championship contender and more to become a 1st option (and he can barring injuries) because he's still in the prospect stages.

Don't take my word for it, just look at the top teams from top to bottom.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: mr. dee on May 25, 2013, 12:05:56 AM
Green is the only reliable scorer on this team. But defensively, this could be the best in the league. Watching Hibbert torching the Heat tonight in the paint makes me believe that this team will make it far if we can get or develop a center as good as Hibbert.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: syfy9 on May 25, 2013, 01:24:54 AM
But defensively, this could be the best in the league.

Yeah! You bet!


If you exclude the Grizzlies, the Pacers, the Bulls, the Heat, and the Thunder (along with any other promising defensive team, such as the 76ers, Wizards, etc.).
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 25, 2013, 02:44:24 AM
Green is the only reliable scorer on this team. But defensively, this could be the best in the league.

A team of Rondo, Bradley, Green, SUlly and (insert random scrub... Bass?  Melo?) would be awful defensively.

"Even though he’s just a month shy of his 37th birthday, Garnett remains the key to the Celtics defense. Boston has allowed 96.2 points per 100 possessions with Garnett anchoring the back line this season, compared with 104.6 points-per-100 with him off the court. That’s like saying the Celtics are a bit better than the No. 1-ranked Indiana Pacers’ defense with KG, and only a tiny sliver better than the 22nd-ranked Toronto Raptors’ D without him."

Without Pierce and KG, this team is headed towards lotto-ville. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Kuberski1 on May 25, 2013, 03:45:05 AM
Sorry, but no it will not....would be lucky to make the POs
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: D.o.s. on May 25, 2013, 04:50:09 AM
I think people are skippng over the OPs point that he's not talking about this upcoming season..
I think with that core we are 7/8th seed this upcoming season, WHICH I think may be overachieving for them. If that happens and we get the right pieces, I'm not sure how not.

Rondo continues hitting 45% of his jumpers and even 30-35% of his 3s this season, takes on more of a scoring load + AB increasing his percentages 5 or so % puts him at 36% from the 3 and 45% from the field = this is absolutely possible thanks to the stats and its evident RR been working on his jumper and I expect ABs %s to go back up with healed shoulders and more focus on being an SG not a PG.

This right here, I think, will make a WORLD of difference. At some point you have to start respecting RR and ABs shots. Let's not forget, that AB was shooting 49% from the field and 40% from the 3 before he got hurt 2011-2012 season. I'm not sure why so many of us have forgotten this. He can shoot.

I think Jeff Green is then forced into the #2 go to guy position...maybe even first. And I don't think he'll produce right away, but I think he and Rondo will do great things. I also am not sure why people think 20+ ppg/5.5rebs/1 block a game is too much for Jeff. That's essentially what he did this past season as a starter.

If he keeps that production AND develops a left (which can happen in 2 seasons), I don't see why he wouldn't be even better than what we imagined. Let me also note I'm not a person who thinks JG isn't AGGRESSIVE enough. I just think that's his style of play, so I don't count on that. In other words, JG played FINE to me.

Sully will be someone to look at but he's stood up to Tyson Chandler -- that's when I knew he was great. Top 5 rebonder? Eh but hard worker in the post, def. Work on his post game, we know he can hit the jumper -- coach will just have to do that for us. Maybe work into a pick n pop game for he and RR.

How are these things not solid for the 2014-2015 season? I think if we keep JET, even Lee on the bench, that'd be spectacular. If you switch out Eric Gordon for AB, I'm not sure...Gordon can still shoot. But he's expensive.

I think you have to keep Shav even if it's just for depth purposes. And bring back LB or keep J. Craw for bench scorer purposes.
Have to also keep in mind that this starting 5 is under 30 even in 2 years. So that, too.

It's really hard to argue against some of this esp thinking in 2 years and considering development.

With all due respect, you don't have to "argue against some of this," even taking into account the fact that most of us can see into the future--and those of us that can clearly aren't advertising themselves.

All you have to disagree with is the idea that this core, assuming that CENTER is not a franchise-changing talent, will not win a title. The fact that the rest of your post is far beyond most every-card-falling-the-right-way scenarios for our team is really small fish compared to that.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: mr. dee on May 25, 2013, 06:57:00 AM
Green is the only reliable scorer on this team. But defensively, this could be the best in the league.

A team of Rondo, Bradley, Green, SUlly and (insert random scrub... Bass?  Melo?) would be awful defensively.

"Even though he’s just a month shy of his 37th birthday, Garnett remains the key to the Celtics defense. Boston has allowed 96.2 points per 100 possessions with Garnett anchoring the back line this season, compared with 104.6 points-per-100 with him off the court. That’s like saying the Celtics are a bit better than the No. 1-ranked Indiana Pacers’ defense with KG, and only a tiny sliver better than the 22nd-ranked Toronto Raptors’ D without him."

Without Pierce and KG, this team is headed towards lotto-ville.
Who said it have to be a scrub? It doesn't have to be a franchise player. Just a blue collar, solid center. If we can could only draft Noel then we'll have secure KG's apparent heir.

And yes, those core could be one of the best, if not best defensive teams on the league with or without a star center, regardless of the record.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 25, 2013, 07:23:06 AM
This thread is basically like if a Dallas fan posted:  "A core of Brandon Wright, OJ Mayo, Jae Crowder, Jared Cunningham and Darren Collison will win a title"

Or I guess if you're being extremely generous on the talent evaluation, it's like saying "A post-Duncan/Ginobili core of Parker-Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter will win a title"

Except that Parker-D.Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter is far superior to Rondo-Bradley-J.Green-Sully-Center.

Parker = Rondo
Green > Bradley
Leonard > Green
Splitter > Sully
PF = C
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: mr. dee on May 25, 2013, 08:43:51 AM
This thread is basically like if a Dallas fan posted:  "A core of Brandon Wright, OJ Mayo, Jae Crowder, Jared Cunningham and Darren Collison will win a title"

Or I guess if you're being extremely generous on the talent evaluation, it's like saying "A post-Duncan/Ginobili core of Parker-Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter will win a title"

Except that Parker-D.Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter is far superior to Rondo-Bradley-J.Green-Sully-Center.

Parker = Rondo
Green > Bradley
Leonard > Green
Splitter > Sully
PF = C

Whoa, I wouldn't go that far. I heard someone in SA fanbase wants Splitter's head for some dumbplays. You wouldn't even hear us wanting Sully's.

Green over Leonard? I'm not sure either. If Kawhi can drop 43 against the heat, we can talk. Defensively? He have the edge over Green. But Jeff isn't a bad defender either.

D. Green over Bradley? This could be a toss up. Both are kinda streaky but Green is more consistent. Bradley wins in defense though.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticsFan9 on May 25, 2013, 10:09:05 AM
I'll try to give my most optimistic view on this:

Pre-injury, I felt like Rondo was a consistent jumper away from superstardom.  It would have catapulted him from third best PG to 1(A (behind Chris Paul), and put in in the top 10 players in the league conversation (pre-injury I had him top 15).  So, let's say Rondo comes back relatively the same in terms of athleticism (possible, considering how much we've advanced with rehab, surgery, etc), AND Rondo has developed a jump shot out to the three point line.  That's a guy who could be your franchise player.

I still don't really have a good read on Bradley, if only because he's never really had a chance to play a FULL season with Rondo.  He had that stretch in 11/12 where he was absolutely spectacular, but then last year after Rondo went down (especially in the playoffs), he struggled mightily with the PG duties.  I'd like to see what he and Rondo can do with a full season of playing together, as I think they could be pretty disruptive defensively.  Hopefully, Bradley works on his spot-up shooting and finishing around the basket this offseason (because he doesn't have to deal with an injury for once) and has a good training camp.

Green is really intriguing.  He's a guy who can explode for 40 one night, and then drop 9 the next.  For him, I think it's all about confidence, consistency, and creativity this summer.  If he can develop that mentality of "Hey, I'm looking like I need to be the min scorer for this team, I need to take every game seriously" then I like him as our starting SF.  If he's confident and gets in his rhythm, he's an electric scorer.  As long as he consistently puts in the effort, he can drive, shoot, post, etc.  Also, I'd like to see him get some new moves this year (especially moves GOING TO HIS LEFT).  That would really open up his game.  And his defense really impressed me this year, especially the shot-blocking.

I'm a big Sully fan.  Love the hustle, banging, post-presence, everything.  If he could get some more touches in the post, I'd love to see how our offense would develop.  Looking back at his college game, the guy just bullied people ion the block, so I could see him just scoring right at the rim.  His passing is also very good for a big dude, so if teams double, he could kick it out, and get the ball swinging around the perimeter until a shot opens up.  His defense wasn't that great last year, but he also played less than half a season, so I expect him to improve.  He has the potential to be a starter if he improves the defense.

Here's my initial reaction  (and ultimately my actual view) on that core:

No shooting, not big enough, scrappy and scrambling on defense, 30-52.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: BballTim on May 25, 2013, 10:21:50 AM
Green is the only reliable scorer on this team. But defensively, this could be the best in the league.

A team of Rondo, Bradley, Green, SUlly and (insert random scrub... Bass?  Melo?) would be awful defensively.

"Even though he’s just a month shy of his 37th birthday, Garnett remains the key to the Celtics defense. Boston has allowed 96.2 points per 100 possessions with Garnett anchoring the back line this season, compared with 104.6 points-per-100 with him off the court. That’s like saying the Celtics are a bit better than the No. 1-ranked Indiana Pacers’ defense with KG, and only a tiny sliver better than the 22nd-ranked Toronto Raptors’ D without him."

Without Pierce and KG, this team is headed towards lotto-ville.

  You post numbers earlier in the season when the defense was 18 points better with KG than without him. The reason it dropped to 8 was because the defense was playing as well without KG as it was with him from January on.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/56110/life-without-kg-a-defensive-travesty-for-the-celtics

   "But as John Schuhmann of NBA.com first noted on Twitter a few weeks back, Garnett’s life-or-death impact on Boston’s D mysteriously vanished upon the return of Avery Bradley. Since Bradley’s January 2 debut, Boston has been almost exactly as good defensively regardless of whether Garnett plays or sits, and they’ve been a bit better offensively, per NBA.com."
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics18 on May 25, 2013, 12:15:42 PM
This thread is basically like if a Dallas fan posted:  "A core of Brandon Wright, OJ Mayo, Jae Crowder, Jared Cunningham and Darren Collison will win a title"

Or I guess if you're being extremely generous on the talent evaluation, it's like saying "A post-Duncan/Ginobili core of Parker-Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter will win a title"

Except that Parker-D.Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter is far superior to Rondo-Bradley-J.Green-Sully-Center.

Parker = Rondo
Green > Bradley
Leonard > Green
Splitter > Sully
PF = C

That Spurs comparison isn't terrible.  Of course, the key difference is that their star point guard is four years older and entering the tail end of his prime, while ours is just entering his prime.  D. Green, Leonard, and Splitter being far superior to Bradley, J. Green, and Sully is just completely off base.

Also, Splitter is already 28, while Sully is only two months removed from legally being able to purchase his first alcoholic beverage.   

The Mavs comparison is a joke. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 25, 2013, 03:22:08 PM
Green is the only reliable scorer on this team. But defensively, this could be the best in the league.

A team of Rondo, Bradley, Green, SUlly and (insert random scrub... Bass?  Melo?) would be awful defensively.

"Even though he’s just a month shy of his 37th birthday, Garnett remains the key to the Celtics defense. Boston has allowed 96.2 points per 100 possessions with Garnett anchoring the back line this season, compared with 104.6 points-per-100 with him off the court. That’s like saying the Celtics are a bit better than the No. 1-ranked Indiana Pacers’ defense with KG, and only a tiny sliver better than the 22nd-ranked Toronto Raptors’ D without him."

Without Pierce and KG, this team is headed towards lotto-ville.

  You post numbers earlier in the season when the defense was 18 points better with KG than without him. The reason it dropped to 8 was because the defense was playing as well without KG as it was with him from January on.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/56110/life-without-kg-a-defensive-travesty-for-the-celtics

   "But as John Schuhmann of NBA.com first noted on Twitter a few weeks back, Garnett’s life-or-death impact on Boston’s D mysteriously vanished upon the return of Avery Bradley. Since Bradley’s January 2 debut, Boston has been almost exactly as good defensively regardless of whether Garnett plays or sits, and they’ve been a bit better offensively, per NBA.com."
Actually, the quote I posted was from immediately prior to the playoffs starting.  Is it inaccurate?

The quote you posted about Bradley was from February about a month into Bradley's debut.  His impact was short-lived during a winning streak.

As D.O.S pointed out in another thread:

"Of all players with at least his 574 total offensive possessions, Bradley ranked 183rd out of 187 qualifying players (the only ones worse: Rondo, Michael Beasley, Alexey Shved, and Ricky Rubio). Here's two more [dang]ing stats to consider: The Celtics were plus-26 when Bradley was off the court, but minus-44 when he was on it. And despite his individual defensive efforts, Boston's defensive rating actually remained nearly static with (100.3) or without (100.4) him. Bradley's postseason struggles contributed to the minus next to his mark. "

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705075/report-card-avery-bradley-3 "


"The Celtics were minus-130 in the 1,946 minutes Garnett was on the bench this season, but plus-112 in his 2,022 minutes of court time. Dig deeper and Boston's defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) was a staggering 104.6 with Garnett on the bench and a minuscule 96.2 when he was on the floor. Yes, even at an advanced age, Garnett remains so vital to this team and its success, particularly on the defensive end."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705058/report-card-kevin-garnett-4
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 25, 2013, 03:30:28 PM
This thread is basically like if a Dallas fan posted:  "A core of Brandon Wright, OJ Mayo, Jae Crowder, Jared Cunningham and Darren Collison will win a title"

Or I guess if you're being extremely generous on the talent evaluation, it's like saying "A post-Duncan/Ginobili core of Parker-Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter will win a title"

Except that Parker-D.Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter is far superior to Rondo-Bradley-J.Green-Sully-Center.

Parker = Rondo
Green > Bradley
Leonard > Green
Splitter > Sully
PF = C

That Spurs comparison isn't terrible.  Of course, the key difference is that their star point guard is four years older and entering the tail end of his prime, while ours is just entering his prime.  D. Green, Leonard, and Splitter being far superior to Bradley, J. Green, and Sully is just completely off base.

No it isn't.

In fact...

Parker > Rondo
D. Green > Bradley
Leonard > J. Green
Splitter > Sully

... and it's easier to find a PF than a C so...

PF > C

Sure Splitter is older than Sully, but Splitter is better than Sully.

Sure Jeff Green is older than Leonard, but Leonard is better than Jeff Green.

Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics18 on May 25, 2013, 03:55:23 PM
This thread is basically like if a Dallas fan posted:  "A core of Brandon Wright, OJ Mayo, Jae Crowder, Jared Cunningham and Darren Collison will win a title"

Or I guess if you're being extremely generous on the talent evaluation, it's like saying "A post-Duncan/Ginobili core of Parker-Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter will win a title"

Except that Parker-D.Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter is far superior to Rondo-Bradley-J.Green-Sully-Center.

Parker = Rondo
Green > Bradley
Leonard > Green
Splitter > Sully
PF = C

That Spurs comparison isn't terrible.  Of course, the key difference is that their star point guard is four years older and entering the tail end of his prime, while ours is just entering his prime.  D. Green, Leonard, and Splitter being far superior to Bradley, J. Green, and Sully is just completely off base.

No it isn't.

In fact...

Parker > Rondo
D. Green > Bradley
Leonard > J. Green
Splitter > Sully

... and it's easier to find a PF than a C so...

PF > C

Sure Splitter is older than Sully, but Splitter is better than Sully.

Sure Jeff Green is older than Leonard, but Leonard is better than Jeff Green.

Not only is Parker four years older than Rondo, but he's also not better.  Simply restating that as an unsupported fact doesn't make it true.  Splitter is better than Sully right now, but at 21, Sully has shown that he has a decent upside.  I wouldn't be surprised if he was as productive as Tiago Splitter as early as next season. 

Sure, Leonard is younger than Green, and I really like him as a player, but he hasn't shown me anything to make me think that he's going to be a superstar style wing in this league.  I think he'll always be what he is, a very solid, high IQ, defensive minded wing.  That's not a bad thing to have, but Jeff Green, as much as some dislike him, will probably always be a more explosive scorer. 

Danny Green vs. Bradley?:  Whatever.  I like both as solid role players.  I would submit that Avery has a little more upside, but that's probably debatable.

We definitely need to find a good starting center at some point over the next couple of years.  That surely won't be an easy task, but also certainly not an impossibility.

You haven't really provided anything to back up your assertion other than a bunch of ">" marks. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Yogi on May 25, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
Any one can just claim x>y or y>x.  Post evidence to support your claims or it is useless. 

Comparing Bradley and Green to Leonard and D. Green is difficult because Bradley is playing off double shoulder surgery and Green is playing fresh off heart surgery. 

Comparing Jeff Greens stats in his second year against Leonard, they are basically identical.  Leonard of course had the luxury of playing with Parker, Giniobili, Duncan and Pop who knew how to win.  Green had to play with a very raw Russel Westbrook and James Harden and a young rapidly developing Kevin Durant with a new coach. 

Bradley was playing out of position.  Imagine if Tony Parker went down and Danny Green had to play point guard.  I guarantee it would not look pretty. 

I am not sure what the claim that Splitter is better than Sullinger is based on.  Sullinger is just more versatile offensively being a much better shooter and post up threat.  Splitter is 7 ft and a stronger finisher. 

Sullinger also was playing in some physical limitations before surgery.  We would have to wait a year or two to even begin to evaluate Sullinger as an NBA player.  It wasn't long ago that Splitters inability to make free throws and not foul hurt San Antonio against the Grizzlies in the first round.  Obviously Splitter has improved but this was his third year and he is 7 years older than Sullinger. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 25, 2013, 04:18:47 PM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 25, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
This thread is basically like if a Dallas fan posted:  "A core of Brandon Wright, OJ Mayo, Jae Crowder, Jared Cunningham and Darren Collison will win a title"

Or I guess if you're being extremely generous on the talent evaluation, it's like saying "A post-Duncan/Ginobili core of Parker-Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter will win a title"

Except that Parker-D.Green-Leonard-PF-Splitter is far superior to Rondo-Bradley-J.Green-Sully-Center.

Parker = Rondo
Green > Bradley
Leonard > Green
Splitter > Sully
PF = C

That Spurs comparison isn't terrible.  Of course, the key difference is that their star point guard is four years older and entering the tail end of his prime, while ours is just entering his prime.  D. Green, Leonard, and Splitter being far superior to Bradley, J. Green, and Sully is just completely off base.

No it isn't.

In fact...

Parker > Rondo
D. Green > Bradley
Leonard > J. Green
Splitter > Sully

... and it's easier to find a PF than a C so...

PF > C

Sure Splitter is older than Sully, but Splitter is better than Sully.

Sure Jeff Green is older than Leonard, but Leonard is better than Jeff Green.
La33y Bird takes the "i dont want to seem like a homer so im gonna take the exact opposite route and claim everyone on my team is way less talented than they actually are" strategy.

In reality, Rondo is one of the best players in the game when he sets his mind to it.

Avery Bradley is probably the best on ball defender in the league who is also a very effective cutter and above average shooter.

Jeff Green is a player with massive potential who just had a very successful season in which he played every game of the season just months after heart surgery.

Jared Sullinger is a young player with a very high basketball iq who can hit jumpers and in time develop a reliable post game but who also has the potential to be one of the best offensive rebounders in the game.

And lastly, our coach Doc Rivers is the best motivator and leader in the game.

One of the key points here is that all these players have the propensity to perform at a much higher level (to varying degrees) than they did this year.

Any notion that that team is a lottery team is silly and should be disregarded.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 25, 2013, 06:07:52 PM
I don't think that team can win a title either.   A lot of your roster is small, Bradley and Sully especially.   You don't name a center, if he is a good one it helps but if he is a bad one ala Potapenko then this team struggles to make the playoffs.   Also, it is a team of potential and what if's but right now no one on it averages more than what 13 PPG a game.

 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CoachBo on May 25, 2013, 06:20:33 PM
Our team may no longer be a contender, but I'd put this blog's ability to conflate the talent of their favorite Celtics up against any other blog.

Going to be harder to out-exaggerate some of you than it is to guard LeBron.

Mind-boggling this thread made six pages. Absolutely mind-boggling.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CoachBo on May 25, 2013, 06:21:40 PM
Green is the only reliable scorer on this team. But defensively, this could be the best in the league.

A team of Rondo, Bradley, Green, SUlly and (insert random scrub... Bass?  Melo?) would be awful defensively.

"Even though he’s just a month shy of his 37th birthday, Garnett remains the key to the Celtics defense. Boston has allowed 96.2 points per 100 possessions with Garnett anchoring the back line this season, compared with 104.6 points-per-100 with him off the court. That’s like saying the Celtics are a bit better than the No. 1-ranked Indiana Pacers’ defense with KG, and only a tiny sliver better than the 22nd-ranked Toronto Raptors’ D without him."

Without Pierce and KG, this team is headed towards lotto-ville.

  You post numbers earlier in the season when the defense was 18 points better with KG than without him. The reason it dropped to 8 was because the defense was playing as well without KG as it was with him from January on.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/56110/life-without-kg-a-defensive-travesty-for-the-celtics

   "But as John Schuhmann of NBA.com first noted on Twitter a few weeks back, Garnett’s life-or-death impact on Boston’s D mysteriously vanished upon the return of Avery Bradley. Since Bradley’s January 2 debut, Boston has been almost exactly as good defensively regardless of whether Garnett plays or sits, and they’ve been a bit better offensively, per NBA.com."
Actually, the quote I posted was from immediately prior to the playoffs starting.  Is it inaccurate?

The quote you posted about Bradley was from February about a month into Bradley's debut.  His impact was short-lived during a winning streak.

As D.O.S pointed out in another thread:

"Of all players with at least his 574 total offensive possessions, Bradley ranked 183rd out of 187 qualifying players (the only ones worse: Rondo, Michael Beasley, Alexey Shved, and Ricky Rubio). Here's two more [dang]ing stats to consider: The Celtics were plus-26 when Bradley was off the court, but minus-44 when he was on it. And despite his individual defensive efforts, Boston's defensive rating actually remained nearly static with (100.3) or without (100.4) him. Bradley's postseason struggles contributed to the minus next to his mark. "

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705075/report-card-avery-bradley-3 "


"The Celtics were minus-130 in the 1,946 minutes Garnett was on the bench this season, but plus-112 in his 2,022 minutes of court time. Dig deeper and Boston's defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) was a staggering 104.6 with Garnett on the bench and a minuscule 96.2 when he was on the floor. Yes, even at an advanced age, Garnett remains so vital to this team and its success, particularly on the defensive end."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705058/report-card-kevin-garnett-4

Oops. Context is such a pesky thing, isn't it?

 ;D
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics18 on May 25, 2013, 06:49:30 PM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

I don't think anyone (I'm certainly not) is suggesting that this team is a title contender as is without making some upgrades once Pierce and Garnett leave.  What I'm saying is that we have a good young core that needs some pieces added to it (like a center) to put us back into contention. 

I don't think that I'm missing your overall point at all.  I just don't agree with it.     
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Yogi on May 25, 2013, 08:05:11 PM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: More Banners on May 25, 2013, 08:19:51 PM
With an all-star 7' 20/10/2 machine in the center spot, yes.

Other than that, I'm not sure who gets the bucket when one is really needed.  Jeff Green is a 20pt guy, but not a #1 closer.  Rondo isn't the go-to scorer.  Sully's best points are mostly garbage buckets or jumpers; I wouldn't count on him to score in the post, and even the entry pass would be tough given his size, in those closing minutes against top defenses.

Who gets the ball with 2.2 to go in OT?

If the answer is Green or Rondo to score, we're pretenders.

That's Danny's conundrum, because that core with someone like Big Al could probably go pretty far, ECF, much like those Pistons teams.  And that might be the immediate future...

Until the stars align over Boston again...
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticConcourse on May 25, 2013, 09:29:02 PM
Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 25, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...
lol... nice

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7o9dsRPw51rym68yo1_400.gif)

(http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/its-happening-ron-paul-gif.gif)
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticsFan9 on May 25, 2013, 09:33:25 PM
Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...

You know, I actually managed that on 2K13.

It was a lot of fun.  Epke Udoh was my center.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 25, 2013, 10:11:30 PM
Our team may no longer be a contender, but I'd put this blog's ability to conflate the talent of their favorite Celtics up against any other blog.

Going to be harder to out-exaggerate some of you than it is to guard LeBron.

Mind-boggling this thread made six pages. Absolutely mind-boggling.
Are you criticizing people for overrating players, or people for saying everyone on the team sucks? Im confused by your usage of conflate.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 25, 2013, 10:12:57 PM
Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...
lol... nice

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7o9dsRPw51rym68yo1_400.gif)

(http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/its-happening-ron-paul-gif.gif)
Dude, you clearly disagree with the sentiment of this thread. Why keep posting? We dont need a sarcastic comment every page to remind us. Other people are providing those.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 25, 2013, 10:20:57 PM
Quote
It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...

Trouble is in the real world, they don't average those numbers.   No one averages more than  13 PPG in the regular season, this is not NBA live.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: celtic -_- pride on May 25, 2013, 11:10:04 PM
i just want this thread to go away.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 25, 2013, 11:12:09 PM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential.

thank you
and we aren't even talking about playoffs
i dont think sully gets to 17ppg, but even if we get a 7footer who can score, i'm not sure why ppl are so pessimistic.

with the exception of injuries, you're asking everyone to do what they did with MINOR developments (JG and his left, AB and his long distance which was excellent season before last, Rondo and his long distance which was obviously developing, Sully catch 2 - 3 more rebounds per game than he did in january 2013).

at worst, you need a center who can run the floor. that's it...i'd even take a deandre jordan on that team.

only thing i agree with is the team is a bit small, but again, you get a 7 footer and hope rondo is still fast, i'm not sure there's too many problems.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: celtic -_- pride on May 25, 2013, 11:14:19 PM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential.

thank you
and we aren't even talking about playoffs
i dont think sully gets to 17ppg, but even if we get a 7footer who can score, i'm not sure why ppl are so pessimistic.

with the exception of injuries, you're asking everyone to do what they did with MINOR developments (JG and his left, AB and his long distance which was excellent season before last, Rondo and his long distance which was obviously developing, Sully catch 2 - 3 more rebounds per game than he did in january 2013).

at worst, you need a center who can run the floor. that's it...i'd even take a deandre jordan on that team.

only thing i agree with is the team is a bit small, but again, you get a 7 footer and hope rondo is still fast, i'm not sure there's too many problems.
the only problem, it still wont win a championship. there are too many better teams that are ELITE. this roster wont beat the thunder. it may be entertaining but it wont bring us a banner. i see this starting line up filled with roll players and six men.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 25, 2013, 11:16:14 PM
With an all-star 7' 20/10/2 machine in the center spot, yes.

Other than that, I'm not sure who gets the bucket when one is really needed.  Jeff Green is a 20pt guy, but not a #1 closer.  Rondo isn't the go-to scorer.  Sully's best points are mostly garbage buckets or jumpers; I wouldn't count on him to score in the post, and even the entry pass would be tough given his size, in those closing minutes against top defenses.

Who gets the ball with 2.2 to go in OT?

If the answer is Green or Rondo to score, we're pretenders.

That's Danny's conundrum, because that core with someone like Big Al could probably go pretty far, ECF, much like those Pistons teams.  And that might be the immediate future...

Until the stars align over Boston again...

pretty sure we won a couple of games off JGs clutchiness in the 4th alone...but whatever works
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 25, 2013, 11:21:23 PM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential.

thank you
and we aren't even talking about playoffs
i dont think sully gets to 17ppg, but even if we get a 7footer who can score, i'm not sure why ppl are so pessimistic.

with the exception of injuries, you're asking everyone to do what they did with MINOR developments (JG and his left, AB and his long distance which was excellent season before last, Rondo and his long distance which was obviously developing, Sully catch 2 - 3 more rebounds per game than he did in january 2013).

at worst, you need a center who can run the floor. that's it...i'd even take a deandre jordan on that team.

only thing i agree with is the team is a bit small, but again, you get a 7 footer and hope rondo is still fast, i'm not sure there's too many problems.
the only problem, it still wont win a championship. there are too many better teams that are ELITE. this roster wont beat the thunder. it may be entertaining but it wont bring us a banner. i see this starting line up filled with roll players and six men.

if i'm with yogi, we're talking about in 3 years, and the thunder have to beat whomever's in the west first.
the thunder's window of opportunity is closing, esp if the westbook injury is a naggy one and then kendrick perkins is just trash.
you all HAVE to, HAVE to remember that we are in the East.
With this roster, our biggest issues will be the Heat (who I think will have an aged Dwayne Wade and possibly no BOsh or Lebron by then) and the Pacers (who have lots of talent and could have to deal with players getting money hungry).

Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 25, 2013, 11:50:43 PM
Let me ask all the people trashing this thread this:

Did anyone think Rondo would be third all time in playoff triple doubles when we drafted him? No.

Did anyone think in 2010 that Avery Bradley would be the best on ball defender in the league who changes a team's defense? No.

Did anyone think Jeff Green would be as good as he is today when the season started (I did but Im pretty sure I was in the substantial minority).

The same doubts are made any time anyone makes a bold statement in sports or life period. Im sure Pacers fans would have thought it was silly if someone had said that Paul George, GeorgeHill, Deshawn Stevenson, David West, and Roy Hibbert would be the Heat's biggest threat, but things happen.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 25, 2013, 11:55:45 PM
Let me ask all the people trashing this thread this:

Did anyone think Rondo would be third all time in playoff triple doubles when we drafted him? No.

Did anyone think in 2010 that Avery Bradley would be the best on ball defender in the league who changes a team's defense? No.

Did anyone think Jeff Green would be as good as he is today when the season started (I did but Im pretty sure I was in the substantial minority).

The same doubts are made any time anyone makes a bold statement in sports or life period. Im sure Pacers fans would have thought it was silly if someone had said that Paul George, GeorgeHill, Deshawn Stevenson, David West, and Roy Hibbert would be the Heat's biggest threat, but things happen.

The worst part is, it's not even DeShawn Stevenson...it's Lance Stephenson lol
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 26, 2013, 12:03:11 AM
Rondo - 20 points, 12 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals, legit MVP candidate
Bradley - 16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, DPOY
Green - 25 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, top-5 scorer in league
Sully - 15 points, 12 rebounds, ZBo-prime numbers
Center - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, not a scrub on either side

Then we'll have JET scoring an efficient 12 off the bench, and some other fillers with 5 to 6 points per game.

Then, we'd have to get lucky in the playoffs for a few games with 40-point performances from Green n' Rondo every so often. Rondo needs a triple-double every national TV game and to average 22/13/7/3 for the Playoffs.

It's possible. But we'd have to avoid injuries all year...
lol... nice

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7o9dsRPw51rym68yo1_400.gif)

(http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/its-happening-ron-paul-gif.gif)
Dude, you clearly disagree with the sentiment of this thread. Why keep posting? We dont need a sarcastic comment every page to remind us. Other people are providing those.

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8rxckxM6W1r9rdxs.gif)

I'm sooooo sorry for all the

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo1hgvVQ4d1qj73e2o1_500.gif)

... Honestly, I thought the post where Rondo magically starts averaging 20/12/6, Jeff Green starts dropping 25+ a night and Avery Bradley makes DPOY was clearly intended as a goof.  I thought we were all having a laugh here.  My bad.  It's Memorial Day weekend and all... and Arrested Development Season 4 is about to pop onto Netflix.  Thought we were all getting into the comedy spirit with this joke thread.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwuf9avVlr1qd5qt5o1_500.png)

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4f7abP6841qcps1ko1_500.gif)

No more jokes, I promise.  Let's get serious up in this business...

(http://i.imgur.com/VgXCk.gif)

We are totes gonna win a title with those 4 as our core... srsly.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me4b6uIOMZ1rm1g2eo1_250.gif)
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics18 on May 26, 2013, 12:39:43 AM
Let me ask all the people trashing this thread this:

Did anyone think Rondo would be third all time in playoff triple doubles when we drafted him? No.

Did anyone think in 2010 that Avery Bradley would be the best on ball defender in the league who changes a team's defense? No.

Did anyone think Jeff Green would be as good as he is today when the season started (I did but Im pretty sure I was in the substantial minority).

The same doubts are made any time anyone makes a bold statement in sports or life period. Im sure Pacers fans would have thought it was silly if someone had said that Paul George, GeorgeHill, Deshawn Stevenson, David West, and Roy Hibbert would be the Heat's biggest threat, but things happen.

We just have to find our Roy Hibbert with the 16th pick in this year's draft. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: mr. dee on May 26, 2013, 05:13:02 AM
It's a long shot but not impossible. Rodman got drafted in 27th pick. Boozer was drafted in the 2nd round. And Roy Hibbert was drafted in 17th. There's a reason to be optimistic.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LilRip on May 26, 2013, 06:58:37 AM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).

the only time that celtics "core" will contend is if the aforementioned Center is indeed an all-star caliber center on the level of Rondo. So yes, a core of Rondo-AllstarCenter can contend, especially if backed up by solid role players like Bradley and Green and Sully. Green is a very solid 3rd option imo and Bradley is the defensive specialist every aspiring contending team needs (like TA or D. Green or Sefolosha or Posey or Shumpert or Battier or Ariza etc.)

But again, we'd probably need a prime Shaq, Hakeem Olajuwon or Tim Duncan first.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Surferdad on May 26, 2013, 07:17:00 AM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).

the only time that celtics "core" will contend is if the aforementioned Center is indeed an all-star caliber center on the level of Rondo. So yes, a core of Rondo-AllstarCenter can contend, especially if backed up by solid role players like Bradley and Green and Sully. Green is a very solid 3rd option imo and Bradley is the defensive specialist every aspiring contending team needs (like TA or D. Green or Sefolosha or Posey or Shumpert or Battier or Ariza etc.)

But again, we'd probably need a prime Shaq, Hakeem Olajuwon or Tim Duncan first.
This should be the last word on this thread as it clarifies things nicely.  Everyone got bent out of shape because "center" was not defined.  You absolutely need that center to be an all-star elite player to compete for a championship.

It is pure fantasy to say that this guy or that guy or that draft pick is going to develop into an elite player.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Surferdad on May 26, 2013, 07:27:42 AM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential.

thank you
and we aren't even talking about playoffs
i dont think sully gets to 17ppg, but even if we get a 7footer who can score, i'm not sure why ppl are so pessimistic.

with the exception of injuries, you're asking everyone to do what they did with MINOR developments (JG and his left, AB and his long distance which was excellent season before last, Rondo and his long distance which was obviously developing, Sully catch 2 - 3 more rebounds per game than he did in january 2013).

at worst, you need a center who can run the floor. that's it...i'd even take a deandre jordan on that team.

only thing i agree with is the team is a bit small, but again, you get a 7 footer and hope rondo is still fast, i'm not sure there's too many problems.
the only problem, it still wont win a championship. there are too many better teams that are ELITE. this roster wont beat the thunder. it may be entertaining but it wont bring us a banner. i see this starting line up filled with roll players and six men.

if i'm with yogi, we're talking about in 3 years, and the thunder have to beat whomever's in the west first.
the thunder's window of opportunity is closing, esp if the westbook injury is a naggy one and then kendrick perkins is just trash.
you all HAVE to, HAVE to remember that we are in the East.
With this roster, our biggest issues will be the Heat (who I think will have an aged Dwayne Wade and possibly no BOsh or Lebron by then) and the Pacers (who have lots of talent and could have to deal with players getting money hungry).
Very funny. Lebron and Bosh are leaving the Heat and the window is closing on the Thunder, plus that Pacers team is getting broken up (presumably even if they win a championship). Where do these ideas come from? I'll give some fans credit for unfailing enthusiasm for the Celtics but this kind of stuff is totally delusional.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 26, 2013, 08:32:31 AM
Quote
It's a long shot but not impossible. Rodman got drafted in 27th pick. Boozer was drafted in the 2nd round. And Roy Hibbert was drafted in 17th. There's a reason to be optimistic.

Give my regards to the Easter Bunny!   Possible but improbable Eric Montross was drafted at 9.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: clover on May 26, 2013, 09:05:48 AM
Kinda like that Pierce, Rondo, AlJeff, DWest, Ryan Gomes core?
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: BballTim on May 26, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Our team may no longer be a contender, but I'd put this blog's ability to conflate the talent of their favorite Celtics up against any other blog.

Going to be harder to out-exaggerate some of you than it is to guard LeBron.

Mind-boggling this thread made six pages. Absolutely mind-boggling.

  I thought people conflating their favorite player's talent was your favorite description of the people claiming that the Celts would have trouble scoring without Rondo in the playoffs.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 26, 2013, 11:37:05 AM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).


*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!

No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?

The Pacers are supposed to be Danny Granger and David West's team. Don't try to use what we know as logic for what we shoulda known at the beginning of the season. NO ONE saw this coming.

And to that point, the OP is saying anything is possible.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 26, 2013, 11:47:02 AM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential.

thank you
and we aren't even talking about playoffs
i dont think sully gets to 17ppg, but even if we get a 7footer who can score, i'm not sure why ppl are so pessimistic.

with the exception of injuries, you're asking everyone to do what they did with MINOR developments (JG and his left, AB and his long distance which was excellent season before last, Rondo and his long distance which was obviously developing, Sully catch 2 - 3 more rebounds per game than he did in january 2013).

at worst, you need a center who can run the floor. that's it...i'd even take a deandre jordan on that team.

only thing i agree with is the team is a bit small, but again, you get a 7 footer and hope rondo is still fast, i'm not sure there's too many problems.
the only problem, it still wont win a championship. there are too many better teams that are ELITE. this roster wont beat the thunder. it may be entertaining but it wont bring us a banner. i see this starting line up filled with roll players and six men.

if i'm with yogi, we're talking about in 3 years, and the thunder have to beat whomever's in the west first.
the thunder's window of opportunity is closing, esp if the westbook injury is a naggy one and then kendrick perkins is just trash.
you all HAVE to, HAVE to remember that we are in the East.
With this roster, our biggest issues will be the Heat (who I think will have an aged Dwayne Wade and possibly no BOsh or Lebron by then) and the Pacers (who have lots of talent and could have to deal with players getting money hungry).
Very funny. Lebron and Bosh are leaving the Heat and the window is closing on the Thunder, plus that Pacers team is getting broken up (presumably even if they win a championship). Where do these ideas come from? I'll give some fans credit for unfailing enthusiasm for the Celtics but this kind of stuff is totally delusional.

Everyone knows the Heat can't pay for those 3 salaries season after next unless someone takes a dramatic paycut....

How isn't the Thunder's window closing? If Houston gets Dwight that AUTOMATICALLY makes them a contender and a HUGE threat to anyone in the West. Kevin Durant went to the finals last year and got a second round exit this year...what's making them/him better in the next 3 years ESPECIALLY IF RUSSEL ISN'T 100%?

Roy Hibbert is on a max contract while Paul George is getting 2.5 mil this year and 3.3 next year...umm...what STAR do you know is getting paid that little? Pacers are already over the cap and West is a Free Agent in 2014...
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Surferdad on May 26, 2013, 02:27:25 PM
lol... Yogi/Celtics18 ...  lot of effort spent arguing whether Tony Parker is slightly better than Rondo (Parker is a back-to-back All-NBA 2nd team ... Rondo was All-NBA 3rd team last year) ... or whether Sully's ceiling will ever reach SPlitter's current level...

You're missing my overall point here.  You remove Pierce/KG from Boston (a 41 win also-ran) and claim the remaining core is a future title contender is almost as foolish as removing DUncan/Ginobili from the Spurs (a 58 win contender) and claiming the remaining core is a future title contender.

Thread is nonsense.  Remove KG and Pierce from Boston and you're lookin at a lotto ticket.

Not at all

1.  I was responding to a very specific comparison between the 4 Spurs players and 4 Celtics.  This was not a part of the greater argument. 

2.  Ironically, while accusing us of missing the point, it is you who missed the OP's original point.  As pointed out earlier, the potential for these 4 being a championship core is in the future.  In 3 years time, Rondo and Green will be in their absolute prime like Parker is now.  Bradley and Sullinger will be 24 and 25 entering their prime years.  Considering that all 4 of those Celtics are young and coming off surgeries/injuries that held them back this season it is not unreasonable to expect they would improve a lot over the next three years.  If Fab can develop also in that time you're looking at potentially

MVP level player in Rondo
Lockdown 3 and D wing Bradley
20 5 5 Jeff Green
17 10 Sullinger
Shot blocking, long and mobile 7ft presence in Fab Melo (or Steven Adams).

This core is young, athletic, long, and can shoot.  Great balance of defense and offense.  Rondo, Green and Sully can dominate the post.  Add the further draft picks and cap space with the retirement of KG, Paul and Terry (also Bass who may or may not be extended) why can't this be a championship core in 3 years?  This is close to the best case scenario but we are talking about potential.

thank you
and we aren't even talking about playoffs
i dont think sully gets to 17ppg, but even if we get a 7footer who can score, i'm not sure why ppl are so pessimistic.

with the exception of injuries, you're asking everyone to do what they did with MINOR developments (JG and his left, AB and his long distance which was excellent season before last, Rondo and his long distance which was obviously developing, Sully catch 2 - 3 more rebounds per game than he did in january 2013).

at worst, you need a center who can run the floor. that's it...i'd even take a deandre jordan on that team.

only thing i agree with is the team is a bit small, but again, you get a 7 footer and hope rondo is still fast, i'm not sure there's too many problems.
the only problem, it still wont win a championship. there are too many better teams that are ELITE. this roster wont beat the thunder. it may be entertaining but it wont bring us a banner. i see this starting line up filled with roll players and six men.

if i'm with yogi, we're talking about in 3 years, and the thunder have to beat whomever's in the west first.
the thunder's window of opportunity is closing, esp if the westbook injury is a naggy one and then kendrick perkins is just trash.
you all HAVE to, HAVE to remember that we are in the East.
With this roster, our biggest issues will be the Heat (who I think will have an aged Dwayne Wade and possibly no BOsh or Lebron by then) and the Pacers (who have lots of talent and could have to deal with players getting money hungry).
Very funny. Lebron and Bosh are leaving the Heat and the window is closing on the Thunder, plus that Pacers team is getting broken up (presumably even if they win a championship). Where do these ideas come from? I'll give some fans credit for unfailing enthusiasm for the Celtics but this kind of stuff is totally delusional.

Everyone knows the Heat can't pay for those 3 salaries season after next unless someone takes a dramatic paycut....

How isn't the Thunder's window closing? If Houston gets Dwight that AUTOMATICALLY makes them a contender and a HUGE threat to anyone in the West. Kevin Durant went to the finals last year and got a second round exit this year...what's making them/him better in the next 3 years ESPECIALLY IF RUSSEL ISN'T 100%?

Roy Hibbert is on a max contract while Paul George is getting 2.5 mil this year and 3.3 next year...umm...what STAR do you know is getting paid that little? Pacers are already over the cap and West is a Free Agent in 2014...
Regarding the Thunder, it's very simple: Kevin Durant.  Would you argue that he is not one of the top 3 players in the NBA?  An injury to ANY OTHER PLAYER ON THAT TEAM INCLUDING WESTBROOK does not mean their window is closing.

Regarding the Heat: Yes they will have cap problems, but how do you jump to that meaning Lebron and Bosh are gone?

I accept your point about the Pacers but again why does that mean th team will be broken up and the Celtics will be top dog in the East in 3 years?

In all 3 of thes examples the logic doesn't hold together, it's just pure speculation.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: vjcsmoke on May 27, 2013, 03:42:05 AM
Thats all I have to say. I see a lot of folks saying that a team with that core will win no more that 35 games. That is completely self imposed misery quite typical of Boston sports fans.

Im not saying that means they will win the title next year but within the next several years, that team will win a title. You heard it here first.

LOL.  Wow.  Unless that Center is the next Shaq, that ain't gonna happen.  That core is good for 5th to 8th in the East.  But no serious title runs.  Unfortunately the Celtics are solidly mediocre and thus have no chance at the lottery.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 27, 2013, 04:32:13 AM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).


*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!

No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?

The Pacers are supposed to be Danny Granger and David West's team. Don't try to use what we know as logic for what we shoulda known at the beginning of the season. NO ONE saw this coming.

And to that point, the OP is saying anything is possible.
Just to correct you on this post...

Actually dude Roy Hibbert got the max contract offer from Portland, because he was an all-star defense-first center in a league currently lacking in quality big men.  Indiana matched the offer.  So yeah maybe he was a little overpaid, but how "overpaid" can a 7-2 280 pound 25 year old all-star center really be?

As for Paul George...

Here's a quote from me on this forum on January 27, 2012:

Quote
There was a (probably BS) rumor a couple weeks ago that the Pacers were considering trading Paul George, Amundson (expiring cap filler) and a draft pick for Pierce.  No word on if it was a 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

I checked the Pacer forums and they were like "no freakin way... Paul George is a phenom!! Pierce is old!!... I wouldn't even trade Granger for him!!"...

Important to point out that in January 2012, Paul George was merely averaging 11 points 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block in 30 minutes ... so I took this as homerism from an excited Pacer fanbase.  But clearly they knew what they were talking about.   

So basically, you're wrong.  Saying that "no one" saw the Paul George thing coming just isn't true.  Pacer fans liked him over Granger even at the beginning of last season and thought they had a "phenom" on their hands.  They completely scoffed at the idea of trading George for an elderly (34 years old at the time) Paul Pierce.

FYI:  Here's that trade rumor from Jan 2012: http://www.ibtimes.com/paul-pierce-trade-rumors-pacers-might-be-frontrunners-land-forward-398030  ... it was very likely bogus, but I was hugely in favor of it at the time.  Indiana had the ability to swallow PIerce's contract... it would have given us bluechip prospect in Paul George + 14 mil in additional cap space.  I posted in about 5 threads about about it.  Lol. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: D.o.s. on May 27, 2013, 04:37:04 AM
I would say that it is more likely we lose any of those guys to a career ending injury than winning a title.

In fact, that may have already happened. Because we don't know, and as some of us are saying, "anything is possible!"

With that in mind, here's some "anything is possible" scenarios.

Rondo comes back a step slower, with a worse jump shot. His confidence in his game shaken, he drives to the hoop even less frequently, and is always a crunch-time liability because he still can't hit his free throws. He continues to lead the league in assists while the team goes 20-62, only to recreate himself on a different team years later ala Jason Kidd.

Bradley never plays more than 60 games in a full, non-lockout season. His shot never develops, and after spending year after year taking abuse on his body for his defense he walks away from hoops to pursue motivational speaking.


Sullinger comes back from his back surgery with the same diminished games as Dwight Howard. Is a solid bench player, but definitely not a starter.

Fab Melo is forced to retire after five successive non-game related concussions.

Jeff Green remains Jeff Green.


After all, "anything is possible!" ::)


Disclaimer: I obviously don't advocate for any of the above. But saying "hey guys, we don't know, they could win it all!" in response to any kind of counter-point is the epitome of lazy thinking.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LatterDayCelticsfan on May 27, 2013, 05:47:07 AM
I reckon what the foumder of this thread has been trying to say n and is being consistently misread or ignored is not that if KG and Pierce retired right now this core would waltz to a championship right away, but that they have the capacity of growing into a contender on a trajectory quite similar to the Pacers core have been on  the past 3 seasons 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 27, 2013, 06:52:49 AM
The Pacers have not won jack though.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: More Banners on May 27, 2013, 10:37:32 AM
I would say that it is more likely we lose any of those guys to a career ending injury than winning a title.

In fact, that may have already happened. Because we don't know, and as some of us are saying, "anything is possible!"

With that in mind, here's some "anything is possible" scenarios.

Rondo comes back a step slower, with a worse jump shot. His confidence in his game shaken, he drives to the hoop even less frequently, and is always a crunch-time liability because he still can't hit his free throws. He continues to lead the league in assists while the team goes 20-62, only to recreate himself on a different team years later ala Jason Kidd.

Bradley never plays more than 60 games in a full, non-lockout season. His shot never develops, and after spending year after year taking abuse on his body for his defense he walks away from hoops to pursue motivational speaking.


Sullinger comes back from his back surgery with the same diminished games as Dwight Howard. Is a solid bench player, but definitely not a starter.

Fab Melo is forced to retire after five successive non-game related concussions.

Jeff Green remains Jeff Green.


After all, "anything is possible!" ::)


Disclaimer: I obviously don't advocate for any of the above. But saying "hey guys, we don't know, they could win it all!" in response to any kind of counter-point is the epitome of lazy thinking.

This is all true.  Or could be.

Either way, the question for rosters go, for me, is whether the pieces fit and the needed jobs get done.  The '08 and '86 teams had players that were nearly prototypical for their position, e.g. shooting guards who could shoot, power forwards with size and power, a legit pivot, etc.

I don't see a closer.  That's huge.

I don't see enough 3pt shooting to open the floor in the half-court.  The idea that we can just run on every possession is magical thinking.  Teams need to be able to execute.

That center would have to be a dominant big with that group because there isn't a #1 talent on that roster, now or potentially.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 27, 2013, 01:29:16 PM
I would say that it is more likely we lose any of those guys to a career ending injury than winning a title.

In fact, that may have already happened. Because we don't know, and as some of us are saying, "anything is possible!"

With that in mind, here's some "anything is possible" scenarios.

Rondo comes back a step slower, with a worse jump shot. His confidence in his game shaken, he drives to the hoop even less frequently, and is always a crunch-time liability because he still can't hit his free throws. He continues to lead the league in assists while the team goes 20-62, only to recreate himself on a different team years later ala Jason Kidd.

Bradley never plays more than 60 games in a full, non-lockout season. His shot never develops, and after spending year after year taking abuse on his body for his defense he walks away from hoops to pursue motivational speaking.


Sullinger comes back from his back surgery with the same diminished games as Dwight Howard. Is a solid bench player, but definitely not a starter.

Fab Melo is forced to retire after five successive non-game related concussions.

Jeff Green remains Jeff Green.


After all, "anything is possible!" ::)


Disclaimer: I obviously don't advocate for any of the above. But saying "hey guys, we don't know, they could win it all!" in response to any kind of counter-point is the epitome of lazy thinking.

I already did that
but you're just being ridiculous
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 27, 2013, 01:30:15 PM
I reckon what the foumder of this thread has been trying to say n and is being consistently misread or ignored is not that if KG and Pierce retired right now this core would waltz to a championship right away, but that they have the capacity of growing into a contender on a trajectory quite similar to the Pacers core have been on  the past 3 seasons

gracias
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: More Banners on May 27, 2013, 01:44:24 PM
I reckon what the foumder of this thread has been trying to say n and is being consistently misread or ignored is not that if KG and Pierce retired right now this core would waltz to a championship right away, but that they have the capacity of growing into a contender on a trajectory quite similar to the Pacers core have been on  the past 3 seasons

gracias

And here are a few things that need to "grow" in this case:

Rondo would need to be an 80% FT shooter, and drive, draw fouls, and make FTs to stop runs, get points, etc.

Bradley would need to become an above-average 3PT shooter on a consistent basis, quick-release, etc.

Green would need some better, quicker iso moves on the wing.  And a left hand.  And more reliable, better 3pt shooting.

Sully would need to grow more into a Barkley than an Al Harrington.  He could still be a Brandon Hunter after the back surgery...

And then that center would need to be a legit 7' guy, for starters, defensive monster, and 12/10 machine.

So...good luck with all that coming together, eh?
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Yogi on May 27, 2013, 02:50:39 PM
I reckon what the foumder of this thread has been trying to say n and is being consistently misread or ignored is not that if KG and Pierce retired right now this core would waltz to a championship right away, but that they have the capacity of growing into a contender on a trajectory quite similar to the Pacers core have been on  the past 3 seasons

gracias

And here are a few things that need to "grow" in this case:

Rondo would need to be an 80% FT shooter, and drive, draw fouls, and make FTs to stop runs, get points, etc.

Bradley would need to become an above-average 3PT shooter on a consistent basis, quick-release, etc.

Green would need some better, quicker iso moves on the wing.  And a left hand.  And more reliable, better 3pt shooting.

Sully would need to grow more into a Barkley than an Al Harrington.  He could still be a Brandon Hunter after the back surgery...

And then that center would need to be a legit 7' guy, for starters, defensive monster, and 12/10 machine.

So...good luck with all that coming together, eh?
You mean a bunch of young talented, hard working 20-year-olds have to improve their games?  Yeah it is kind of stupid for fans to expect or hope for that to happen...  ::)
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 27, 2013, 03:08:45 PM
I reckon what the foumder of this thread has been trying to say n and is being consistently misread or ignored is not that if KG and Pierce retired right now this core would waltz to a championship right away, but that they have the capacity of growing into a contender on a trajectory quite similar to the Pacers core have been on  the past 3 seasons

gracias

And here are a few things that need to "grow" in this case:

Rondo would need to be an 80% FT shooter, and drive, draw fouls, and make FTs to stop runs, get points, etc.

Bradley would need to become an above-average 3PT shooter on a consistent basis, quick-release, etc.

Green would need some better, quicker iso moves on the wing.  And a left hand.  And more reliable, better 3pt shooting.

Sully would need to grow more into a Barkley than an Al Harrington.  He could still be a Brandon Hunter after the back surgery...

And then that center would need to be a legit 7' guy, for starters, defensive monster, and 12/10 machine.

So...good luck with all that coming together, eh?

all things we talked about
all things that are possible in 3 years

and in my personal opinion and speculation -- I've seen Rondo do this...AB was 41% from the 3pt year before his surgery, JG has a left and just isn't that confident in it -- also think that's a minor change as i think he's more than capable -- sully has moves and range, just wasn't utilized as much and ur center...well i'm not sure, but i'm open

but again. uve got 3 years to figure that out. and i think it could happen as quickly as 2014-15
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: More Banners on May 27, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
I reckon what the foumder of this thread has been trying to say n and is being consistently misread or ignored is not that if KG and Pierce retired right now this core would waltz to a championship right away, but that they have the capacity of growing into a contender on a trajectory quite similar to the Pacers core have been on  the past 3 seasons

gracias

And here are a few things that need to "grow" in this case:

Rondo would need to be an 80% FT shooter, and drive, draw fouls, and make FTs to stop runs, get points, etc.

Bradley would need to become an above-average 3PT shooter on a consistent basis, quick-release, etc.

Green would need some better, quicker iso moves on the wing.  And a left hand.  And more reliable, better 3pt shooting.

Sully would need to grow more into a Barkley than an Al Harrington.  He could still be a Brandon Hunter after the back surgery...

And then that center would need to be a legit 7' guy, for starters, defensive monster, and 12/10 machine.

So...good luck with all that coming together, eh?
You mean a bunch of young talented, hard working 20-year-olds have to improve their games?  Yeah it is kind of stupid for fans to expect or hope for that to happen...  ::)

I really wish we could get rid of the eye-roll icon.  It's rude in person, and doesn't seem much better on screen.

The point, of course, is that of those four, there is precisely zero players that can do what would be needed by that group to contend.

The point is also that the chances of all four making the strides necessary is unlikely.

Never mind health, which should be a concern for at least Bradley, and being undersized for position, which is true at two positions (harder to cover than one).

Cheer, of course, but I see a bunch of quarters looking for a trade before a post-KG/Pierce banner goes up.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Yogi on May 27, 2013, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: More Banners

I really wish we could get rid of the eye-roll icon.  It's rude in person, and doesn't seem much better on screen.

The point, of course, is that of those four, there is precisely zero players that can do what would be needed by that group to contend.

The point is also that the chances of all four making the strides necessary is unlikely.

Never mind health, which should be a concern for at least Bradley, and being undersized for position, which is true at two positions (harder to cover than one).

Cheer, of course, but I see a bunch of quarters looking for a trade before a post-KG/Pierce banner goes up.

That's one opinion among many others which is fine.  You have presented 0 evidence to support your opinion. 

The truth is Bradley and Sullinger have shown above average NBA abilities at 21 and 22 years.  They have 5 years to hone their skills before they enter their prime. 

Rondo has improved every single year, and he's went against multiple MVPs and superstars in the post season matching and even outshining them. 

Green has never been better than he was the last half a season and post season in Boston.  He is still not fully recovered. 

Every one in the world knew Fab was a multi-year project when drafted, and I am excited to see him in Summer League.  He's only 23. 

Unless you are a fortune teller you don't know their potential.  Age, work ethic, character, talent, good coaching, good player development, HOF role models are all in these kids' favor.  It would be unreasonable to expect this group not to go far.  Add to that a GM who knows what it takes to win a championship, and owners who are willing to pay.  They have as good a shot at a championship as any core. 

Bradley maybe undersized but it has shown no effect on his ability to guard bigger shooting gurads.  Probably because or his spectacular athleticism and length.  As he adds upper body strength after recovering from surgery he would become even better. 

Sullinger is NOT undersized no matter what criteria you use compared to NBA players. 

In fact, Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sullinger, and Melo are ALL very long for their position.  Rondo, Bradley, Green and Melo are above average athletes for their positions.  Rondo, Green and Sullinger have above average IQ for their positions.  All of them are + defenders. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 27, 2013, 04:25:54 PM
Quote
Every one in the world knew Fab was a multi-year project when drafted, and I am excited to see him in Summer League.  He's only 23. 

I could see him gone to get us a second round pick. He is also horrible.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticConcourse on May 27, 2013, 04:26:42 PM
*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!
Jesus Christ, you do realize Roy Hibbert made the All-Star team in 2012, right? My god.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Yogi on May 27, 2013, 04:50:10 PM
Quote
Every one in the world knew Fab was a multi-year project when drafted, and I am excited to see him in Summer League.  He's only 23. 

I could see him gone to get us a second round pick. He is also horrible.

You are certainly welcome to an opinion. An opinion that is not based on any facts or insufficient data is not really worth anything.  He has shown great improvement in conditioning and motor.  He has shown flashes of dominance in the D-League.  He has played far too little in the NBA to form any worthwhile opinion of what he can be in the NBA.  He is still a prospect that is improving everyday.  He is hardly any worse of a prospect than Jeff Withey or Dieng who are the same age and are projected as first rounders. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: D.o.s. on May 27, 2013, 04:53:54 PM

Unless you are a fortune teller you don't know their potential.  Age, work ethic, character, talent, good coaching, good player development, HOF role models are all in these kids' favor.  It would be unreasonable to expect this group not to go far.  Add to that a GM who knows what it takes to win a championship, and owners who are willing to pay.  They have as good a shot at a championship as any core. 


No. Telling the people who don't agree with you that they aren't allowed to forecast a future in which our roster post KG and Pierce isn't a championship squad precludes you from making assertions that they are.

We can either sit around like fortune tellers, or we can sit around and look at the facts. But one viewpoint isn't disallowed from prediction just because you don't agree with it.

Some facts that damper my enthusiasm: Rondo, Sully, Avery, and Jeff Green have all had season ending injuries. Avery hasn't looked the same all year (especially in his shooting), there's no telling what Sully and Rondo will look like next year, and Jeff Green will continue to be Jeff Green.

Another fact: Rondo hasn't played close to a full season in four years. Bradley has never played anything close to a full season as a starter, and it remains to see if his great stretch last year was the exception to his game, or the rule.

Some speculation on my part: Jeff Green will continue to be Jeff Green. He is who he is at this point. So, most likely, is Rondo. Bradley and Sullinger are really the only wild-cards left as far as development goes.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: KCattheStripe on May 27, 2013, 04:57:01 PM
*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!
Jesus Christ, you do realize Roy Hibbert made the All-Star team in 2012, right? My god.

So did Jamal Magliore.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticConcourse on May 27, 2013, 05:13:17 PM
*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!
Jesus Christ, you do realize Roy Hibbert made the All-Star team in 2012, right? My god.

So did Jamal Magliore.

I don't know who that is, but if you're an All-Star, you're not "an average to slight ly [sic] above avg center". Hibbert is a surefire top 5 center in the league... top 3.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: KCattheStripe on May 27, 2013, 05:25:13 PM
*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!
Jesus Christ, you do realize Roy Hibbert made the All-Star team in 2012, right? My god.

So did Jamal Magliore.

I don't know who that is, but if you're an All-Star, you're not "an average to slight ly [sic] above avg center". Hibbert is a surefire top 5 center in the league... top 3.


Jamal Magliore was an all star and decidedly average.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticConcourse on May 27, 2013, 05:30:05 PM
*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!
Jesus Christ, you do realize Roy Hibbert made the All-Star team in 2012, right? My god.

So did Jamal Magliore.

I don't know who that is, but if you're an All-Star, you're not "an average to slight ly [sic] above avg center". Hibbert is a surefire top 5 center in the league... top 3.


Jamal Magliore was an all star and decidedly average.

Aye, I can't counter that, but Hibbert is decidedly above average by quite a bit.

Here's what they said when I called him overpaid. (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=64175.msg1447247#msg1447247)
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticsFan9 on May 27, 2013, 05:39:24 PM
I think the only real thing Rondo can develop at this point in his career is the jump shot.  The problem is, we've been wanting him to improve it the past three or four years.  That worries me.

Bradley is hard to read.  He's yet to play a full season as a starter, but from what I've seen, he seems like more of a high-level backup rather than a starter.  He's got too many limitations to his game to start him.

Green's stats have shown that he produces at a very consistent rate throughout his entire entire career.  I don't think it's fair to say that just because he played one really good half of a season, he's turned the corner.  I need to see a little bit more.

Sullinger, like Bradley, has lots of limitations, but his game can be both polished and rugged, so I think he's best as a team's third big guy.

Melo is a project.  That's all we can really call him.

Do any of those players sound like components of a championship contender?  Other than Melo, totally.  I think the other four could be key pieces to a title run, but unfortunately I don't see any of them as that requisite superstar that a team needs to win the chip.

That's an issue.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Fan from VT on May 27, 2013, 05:48:03 PM
Unfortunately by the logic of this thread, 80% of the league has a core just as ypung and judt as potential filled as ours, or even moreso, so apparently there are 25 teams that are likely to win a title in the next ten years.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: BballTim on May 27, 2013, 05:59:06 PM
*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!
Jesus Christ, you do realize Roy Hibbert made the All-Star team in 2012, right? My god.

So did Jamal Magliore.

I don't know who that is, but if you're an All-Star, you're not "an average to slight ly [sic] above avg center". Hibbert is a surefire top 5 center in the league... top 3.

  Magloire isn't a star but he's still in the league and has been for the last 12 years. Just curious, but when did you start following the nba?
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Yogi on May 27, 2013, 07:55:36 PM

Unless you are a fortune teller you don't know their potential.  Age, work ethic, character, talent, good coaching, good player development, HOF role models are all in these kids' favor.  It would be unreasonable to expect this group not to go far.  Add to that a GM who knows what it takes to win a championship, and owners who are willing to pay.  They have as good a shot at a championship as any core. 


No. Telling the people who don't agree with you that they aren't allowed to forecast a future in which our roster post KG and Pierce isn't a championship squad precludes you from making assertions that they are.

We can either sit around like fortune tellers, or we can sit around and look at the facts. But one viewpoint isn't disallowed from prediction just because you don't agree with it.

Some facts that damper my enthusiasm: Rondo, Sully, Avery, and Jeff Green have all had season ending injuries. Avery hasn't looked the same all year (especially in his shooting), there's no telling what Sully and Rondo will look like next year, and Jeff Green will continue to be Jeff Green.

Another fact: Rondo hasn't played close to a full season in four years. Bradley has never played anything close to a full season as a starter, and it remains to see if his great stretch last year was the exception to his game, or the rule.

Some speculation on my part: Jeff Green will continue to be Jeff Green. He is who he is at this point. So, most likely, is Rondo. Bradley and Sullinger are really the only wild-cards left as far as development goes.

1.  Who said anyone is not allowed to forecast?  That is called a straw man argument.  A logical fallacy that is unfortunately common in this forum.

2.  I never made any assertions that post KG and Pierce Celtics are a championship squad.  I do stand by my point that they have every chance of becoming one because they have the talent, the work ethic, the coaching, the leadership, the organization to put the right pieces around them, and time because of their youth.

3.  Rondo has played 88% of all possible games in his NBA career.  That is including DNPs, Suspensions and personal/rest days. 

4.  Avery and Sully are 21 and 22 and their surgeries are supposed to fix their problems not create new ones.  Avery hasn't missed any time since and played as hard as he did before the surgery.  Of course his shot suffered.  He wasn't able to shoot for months and he was immediately thrust into 40 min a game at a different position because of the Rondo and Barbosa injuries.  He also lost a ton of muscle in his upper body due to an inability to lift weights.  He should be back better and more confident than ever. 

5.  You are allowed to speculate whatever you want, but there is plenty of reason to expect improvement from Jeff Green.
a.  He is coming off a year of not playing.  He had to shake off rust.  Every reason to believe a full season and off season would help him improve. 
b.  He is 26, and sat out a full season.  Every reason to believe he is still learning and improving naturally. 
c.  He is learning from Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett.  Top 5 in history to play their respective position, both of which he plays. 
d.  The addition of Rondo will lighten his ball handling responsibilities and allow him focus more on scoring and rebounding.  He will also get easier buckets in transition with Rondo. 
e.  He just completed his first full year with the Celtics system.  No reason he won't come in next year much more comfortable and confident. 
f.  Finally even if none of the above are true, and Jeff Green remains what he was post all star break, you still have an efficient 20ppg scorer who gives you 5+ rebounds and 3 assists to go with some blocks and steals. 
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticConcourse on May 27, 2013, 08:03:30 PM
*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!
Jesus Christ, you do realize Roy Hibbert made the All-Star team in 2012, right? My god.

So did Jamal Magliore.

I don't know who that is, but if you're an All-Star, you're not "an average to slight ly [sic] above avg center". Hibbert is a surefire top 5 center in the league... top 3.

  Magloire isn't a star but he's still in the league and has been for the last 12 years. Just curious, but when did you start following the nba?
I wasn't referring to Magloire (also, he didn't play for any team in 2012-13).
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: syfy9 on May 27, 2013, 08:11:33 PM
I think the only real thing Rondo can develop at this point in his career is the jump shot.  The problem is, we've been wanting him to improve it the past three or four years.  That worries me.

Rondo's jump shot looked really good early this season. He was hitting his mid range shots at a % higher than Kevin Durant.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: More Banners on May 27, 2013, 08:55:03 PM
Well, anyway, it seems that at the moment it's a 3-star minimum league.  I don't think those 4 guys add up to 3 stars, and if the missing center is a star, then any squad could possibly be a contender with the right guy.

Rondo and Green are the best and most seasoned of the four.  They have star/allstar play for quite a few years in them.  Just need the #1 option next to them.

Sully might have the Jeff Green problem of being a great #2 or 3 guy, which might also be Rondo's problem in our rebuild scenarios.

Bradley/Sully/1st/salary match for the star we need? 

If that isn't enough to land a star, we're in trouble.

Rondo/Green/Star plus those great role players and coaching would be a contender.

Sully...Antoinesque skills, but hopoefully more disciplined.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 27, 2013, 09:18:24 PM
*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!
Jesus Christ, you do realize Roy Hibbert made the All-Star team in 2012, right? My god.

So did Jamal Magliore.

I don't know who that is, but if you're an All-Star, you're not "an average to slight ly [sic] above avg center". Hibbert is a surefire top 5 center in the league... top 3.


Jamal Magliore was an all star and decidedly average.

Aye, I can't counter that, but Hibbert is decidedly above average by quite a bit.

Here's what they said when I called him overpaid. (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=64175.msg1447247#msg1447247)

how do u counterattack my point by posting a thread that essentially exemplifies what i'm talking about
no one thought roy hibbert would be good or worth the money. yes he's big and tall, but he averaged 12 and 8. no way you saw him having a 29/10+ performance in the playoffs. impossible
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 27, 2013, 09:22:14 PM
i'm yet perplexed by people saying we don't have a closer

did anyone SEE JGs clutch 3s, jumpers, drives and layups in the fourth quarter of games?
Just wondering
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 27, 2013, 09:48:08 PM
JG is the only clutch scorer in that lot though.  Rondo is productive but not always clutch.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LB3533 on May 27, 2013, 10:01:16 PM
Both Doc and Paul have basically passed the defacto torch to JG.

Green is our closer now.

Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticConcourse on May 27, 2013, 10:08:39 PM

I will never forget Jeff Green's missed three pointer from the top of the key. He better develop that shot a ton this summer.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 27, 2013, 10:19:19 PM
i'm yet perplexed by people saying we don't have a closer

did anyone SEE JGs clutch 3s, jumpers, drives and layups in the fourth quarter of games?
Just wondering
I mean yeah that dude definitley has an unstoppable ability to drive. He had two game winners this year which was two more than everyone else on the team.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: CelticConcourse on May 27, 2013, 10:21:56 PM
i'm yet perplexed by people saying we don't have a closer

did anyone SEE JGs clutch 3s, jumpers, drives and layups in the fourth quarter of games?
Just wondering
I mean yeah that dude definitley has an unstoppable ability to drive. He had two game winners this year which was two more than everyone else on the team.

To be honest, one of them was a collective effort
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 27, 2013, 10:22:43 PM
i'm yet perplexed by people saying we don't have a closer

did anyone SEE JGs clutch 3s, jumpers, drives and layups in the fourth quarter of games?
Just wondering
I mean yeah that dude definitley has an unstoppable ability to drive. He had two game winners this year which was two more than everyone else on the team.

yes...game winners
but there were times when games seemed to look like they were slipping away and Jeff made HUGE shots down the stretch

also...I've seen Rondo pull out some clutchiness down the stretch, granted, I believe that was the playoffs. But the thing is, in years to come, if Jeff and Rondo are still playing for the Celtics, they're going to have to become those guys.

And they can. And I believe they will.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 27, 2013, 10:53:44 PM
i'm yet perplexed by people saying we don't have a closer

did anyone SEE JGs clutch 3s, jumpers, drives and layups in the fourth quarter of games?
Just wondering
I mean yeah that dude definitley has an unstoppable ability to drive. He had two game winners this year which was two more than everyone else on the team.

yes...game winners
but there were times when games seemed to look like they were slipping away and Jeff made HUGE shots down the stretch

also...I've seen Rondo pull out some clutchiness down the stretch, granted, I believe that was the playoffs. But the thing is, in years to come, if Jeff and Rondo are still playing for the Celtics, they're going to have to become those guys.

And they can. And I believe they will.
100% believe that as well.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: ianboyextreme on May 27, 2013, 10:54:06 PM
i'm yet perplexed by people saying we don't have a closer

did anyone SEE JGs clutch 3s, jumpers, drives and layups in the fourth quarter of games?
Just wondering
I mean yeah that dude definitley has an unstoppable ability to drive. He had two game winners this year which was two more than everyone else on the team.

To be honest, one of them was a collective effort
This is true but a game winner is a game winner.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: Yogi on May 28, 2013, 12:27:05 AM
Unfortunately by the logic of this thread, 80% of the league has a core just as ypung and judt as potential filled as ours, or even moreso, so apparently there are 25 teams that are likely to win a title in the next ten years.
There are 25 Rondo's out there?  That's news to me...
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: indeedproceed on May 28, 2013, 02:00:45 AM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).


*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!

No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?

The Pacers are supposed to be Danny Granger and David West's team. Don't try to use what we know as logic for what we shoulda known at the beginning of the season. NO ONE saw this coming.

And to that point, the OP is saying anything is possible.

Your judgements about others' assessments of Paul George are very far off. People may have missed how good Paul George could've been during his rookie year. But between that and his sophomore season, he grew an inch or two, flashes signs of greatness during his rookie season as a defensive player, and looked like a fairly good bet to breakout during his sophomore campaign. The fact that he only averaged 12 points was the surprise, not that he took a large step forward this season.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: LatterDayCelticsfan on May 28, 2013, 02:55:40 AM
Seems there's a very stark dialectic in this here thread. One side of it is leveraged on the +ves and reckons we've only just began to see how good this core can be and the other riding on the -ves and is convinced we've seen about as much as can be expected  from them. Both make decent arguments for the most part, but ultimately we won't know till they get out there and play some basketball. All in all I believe the work ethic and future good health of these guys is a strategic advantage over most NBA franchises  and that as Celtics a fan we've got a very good if not gifted front office that can secure the necessary pieces to get them over the hump. I'm a hopelessly naive optimist and proud of it.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kgainez on May 28, 2013, 03:31:16 AM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).


*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!

No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?

The Pacers are supposed to be Danny Granger and David West's team. Don't try to use what we know as logic for what we shoulda known at the beginning of the season. NO ONE saw this coming.

And to that point, the OP is saying anything is possible.

Your judgements about others' assessments of Paul George are very far off. People may have missed how good Paul George could've been during his rookie year. But between that and his sophomore season, he grew an inch or two, flashes signs of greatness during his rookie season as a defensive player, and looked like a fairly good bet to breakout during his sophomore campaign. The fact that he only averaged 12 points was the surprise, not that he took a large step forward this season.

no one knew this would become PGs team, thanks to the injury. If anyone's, everyone thought David West had to step up and become that guy. Right now its PG and Roy, is my  point.

Thanks to the Rondo injury, JG had to step up. So my point is that these situations where players are kind of forced to grow or given that room to grow change players. Lucky for the Pacers Granger's injury didn't do much to mess up the roster. The Celtics had 3 injuries to deal with, or the Pacers could be us right now and we could be talking about how much a beast Jeff is.

At any rate, my point is players grow whether we see it or not. You stated your point as if Rondo, Jeff even Sully and AB haven't shown glimpses of greatness. I'd like to see what that looks like when the system isn't built around two guys 35+ and a legitimate center.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: BballTim on May 28, 2013, 10:15:29 PM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).


*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!

No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?

The Pacers are supposed to be Danny Granger and David West's team. Don't try to use what we know as logic for what we shoulda known at the beginning of the season. NO ONE saw this coming.

And to that point, the OP is saying anything is possible.

Your judgements about others' assessments of Paul George are very far off. People may have missed how good Paul George could've been during his rookie year. But between that and his sophomore season, he grew an inch or two, flashes signs of greatness during his rookie season as a defensive player, and looked like a fairly good bet to breakout during his sophomore campaign. The fact that he only averaged 12 points was the surprise, not that he took a large step forward this season.

  The problem is it's the Pacers and they were saying the same things about George that they'd just finished saying about Brandon Rush (pretty sure it was Rush, definitely someone they dumped).
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: indeedproceed on May 28, 2013, 10:41:38 PM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).


*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!

No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?

The Pacers are supposed to be Danny Granger and David West's team. Don't try to use what we know as logic for what we shoulda known at the beginning of the season. NO ONE saw this coming.

And to that point, the OP is saying anything is possible.

Your judgements about others' assessments of Paul George are very far off. People may have missed how good Paul George could've been during his rookie year. But between that and his sophomore season, he grew an inch or two, flashes signs of greatness during his rookie season as a defensive player, and looked like a fairly good bet to breakout during his sophomore campaign. The fact that he only averaged 12 points was the surprise, not that he took a large step forward this season.

  The problem is it's the Pacers and they were saying the same things about George that they'd just finished saying about Brandon Rush (pretty sure it was Rush, definitely someone they dumped).

Eh, I never really got that comparison. Paul George was a highlight factory by the end of his first season and a legitimate defensive blue chipper. Then he took a big step forward in efficiency in his sophomore season and he grew 2 or 3 inches.

If anything after his sophomore campaign his ceiling was set too high. I don't think there was a swingman with more promise outside of Kevin Durant.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: kozlodoev on May 29, 2013, 08:41:22 AM
No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?
If you didn't see it coming, then you just weren't looking. Because, in reality, George was a very similar guy on a per-minute basis last year to what he is this year.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: clover on May 29, 2013, 09:01:40 AM
anything can happen in the draft, but i'm pretty sure Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully will not win a title. And to the person saying no one expected the Pacers, well George and Hibbert are both very legit (and underrated by most non-Pacer fans).


*sigh*
are you kidding me?

Roy Hibbert wanted a max contract and everyone was extremely confused. Everyone laughed at him. Everyone said he wasn't worth it. Everyone said he wasn't good. In 2012 HE WAS AN AVERAGE TO SLIGHT LY ABOVE AVG CENTER!!

No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?

The Pacers are supposed to be Danny Granger and David West's team. Don't try to use what we know as logic for what we shoulda known at the beginning of the season. NO ONE saw this coming.

And to that point, the OP is saying anything is possible.

Your judgements about others' assessments of Paul George are very far off. People may have missed how good Paul George could've been during his rookie year. But between that and his sophomore season, he grew an inch or two, flashes signs of greatness during his rookie season as a defensive player, and looked like a fairly good bet to breakout during his sophomore campaign. The fact that he only averaged 12 points was the surprise, not that he took a large step forward this season.

  The problem is it's the Pacers and they were saying the same things about George that they'd just finished saying about Brandon Rush (pretty sure it was Rush, definitely someone they dumped).

Eh, I never really got that comparison. Paul George was a highlight factory by the end of his first season and a legitimate defensive blue chipper. Then he took a big step forward in efficiency in his sophomore season and he grew 2 or 3 inches.

If anything after his sophomore campaign his ceiling was set too high. I don't think there was a swingman with more promise outside of Kevin Durant.

Did he really grow 2 or 3 inches?  His predraft measurements were 6'7.75" w/o shoes and 6'8.75" with shoes.

Maybe he just got some taller shoes.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: D.o.s. on May 30, 2013, 01:44:12 AM
One more thing--since a large part of player-development prediction, at least to me, relies on injury history--does anyone think that our medical staff might be due for an upgrade?

I mean, I know we're not Phoenix... but why aren't we Phoenix?
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: bfrombleacher on May 30, 2013, 02:14:35 AM
No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?
If you didn't see it coming, then you just weren't looking. Because, in reality, George was a very similar guy on a per-minute basis last year to what he is this year.

Per minute doesn't always translate to bigger minutes, right?

Bass was a beast on the boards per minute.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: D.o.s. on May 30, 2013, 02:24:58 AM
No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?
If you didn't see it coming, then you just weren't looking. Because, in reality, George was a very similar guy on a per-minute basis last year to what he is this year.

Per minute doesn't always translate to bigger minutes, right?

Bass was a beast on the boards per minute.

If you consider 7 boards per 36 a beast, I suppose.

Point being that Paul George's per minutes from this regular season and last are very, very similar across the stat sheet, despite an eight minute increase in his playing time (per game):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html#per_minute::none

Which validates the eye test for Pacers fans, who were (rightfully, it turns out) salivating over this dude's potential last year.
Title: Re: A core of Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully-Center will win a title
Post by: bfrombleacher on May 30, 2013, 02:34:08 AM
No one saw this Paul George thing coming from a mile away. What evidence did we have of him becoming a star this year? He was almost useless last season. Now he's helping carrying his team against the Heat?
If you didn't see it coming, then you just weren't looking. Because, in reality, George was a very similar guy on a per-minute basis last year to what he is this year.

Per minute doesn't always translate to bigger minutes, right?

Bass was a beast on the boards per minute.

If you consider 7 boards per 36 a beast, I suppose.

Point being that Paul George's per minutes from this regular season and last are very, very similar across the stat sheet, despite an eight minute increase in his playing time (per game):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html#per_minute::none

Which validates the eye test for Pacers fans, who were (rightfully, it turns out) salivating over this dude's potential last year.

I meant earlier in Bass's career. Of course, Bass was playing far fewer minutes. I used Bass as an example off the top of my head because I remember seeing this thread. (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=63357.msg1424854;topicseen)

But the point is kozlodoev was arguing that we weren't looking if we didn't see Paul George coming. Just playing devil's advocate.