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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Jeff on May 08, 2013, 01:06:56 PM

Title: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Jeff on May 08, 2013, 01:06:56 PM
Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Jeff on May 08, 2013, 01:17:40 PM
by the way, you could pitch the same idea to mad scientist Daryl Morey down in Houston

Pierce, KG, paired with The Beard, Lin, and Asik?  not a bad squad
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Evantime34 on May 08, 2013, 01:19:10 PM
Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?
I would probably want a first along with the cap space. I believe we would only have to take on about 1MM from them.

The Mavericks will have $20 mm in space and the Celtics would be giving away $26 MM in contracts. Meaning that  $20MM+100k*1.25 needs to be equal 26 or more. It equals 25 MM which means we would have to take on a million.

This would not only give us cap space but it would provide us with a $26 MM trade exception that we could use to sign free agents with (as part of a sign and trade).
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Lucky17 on May 08, 2013, 01:19:54 PM
Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

Yeah, I've been churning this one over in my head off and on the past week or so too. I was wondering whether Jason Terry could also fit into the Mavs cap space.

I think it makes sense for Dallas, if they can't land a younger, max-level FA to become the next face of the franchise. Dirk has one year left on his contract, so does Pierce.

They'd have a ton of money tied up in Dirk, Pierce, and KG, though. Might be tough to put pieces around them.

http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/mavericks.jsp
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Jeff on May 08, 2013, 01:22:39 PM

I would probably want a first along with the cap space. I believe we would only have to take on about 1MM from them.

The Mavericks will have $20 mm in space and the Celtics would be giving away $26 MM in contracts. Meaning that  $20MM+100k*1.25 needs to be equal 26 or more. It equals 25 MM which means we would have to take on a million.

This would not only give us cap space but it would provide us with a $26 MM trade exception that we could use to sign free agents with (as part of a sign and trade).

perfect, thanks for doing the math
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Lucky17 on May 08, 2013, 01:34:12 PM
A sticking point could be the cap holds of RFAs Darren Collison (hold of $5.8 mil) and Rodrigue Beaubois (hold of $5.6 mil).

I think Dallas would probably have to relinquish the rights of both of them to free up enough cap space.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: indeedproceed on May 08, 2013, 02:21:15 PM
We did this the other day (with Pierce only):

*Everything is 'Player(Salary in millions)'
Dallas Trades: Shawn Marion (9.3), Carter (3.2), Jared Cunningham (1.2),
#13 overall (roughly 1.6 million cap hold)= $15.3 million

Boston Trades: Paul Pierce ($15.3)

***This trade would only work out if Dallas gets Marion to sign away his ETO rights (like Dwight did) prior to the trade.

Dallas would then only have Nowitzki, Jae Crowder, and Bernard James on contract, plus the $5 million they owe after waiving Pierce, right around ~30 million.

So basically a max-level player.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Who on May 08, 2013, 03:06:50 PM
I think Pierce to Dallas is a good idea if rebuilding.

I would be inclined to trade KG elsewhere. LA Clippers for example. And pick up an additional first round from that second team.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: gpap on May 08, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
It's not a bad idea.

I think it's a move that Dallas would certainly be receptive to.

Maybe if you could pry a 2014 first round pick from them along with a couple expiring contracts (Marion, Mayo, etc) then definitely go for it.

The end goal for the Celtics would be to have two first round picks in 2014 and cap space to go after one of the top free agents in next summer's free agent class.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: henr1k on May 08, 2013, 04:54:21 PM
If Pierce gets traded Clippers and Mavs are most obvious destinations. Mavs will try to get Chris Paul and/or Howard but if they don't get them (very likely to happen) they will look to patch their team with veterans on short deals (similar what they did this summer) cause Cuban can't go into rebuild mode when Dirk has only couple of more years left.

Pierce fits the bill perfectly. Mavs have 13th pick this year, I wonder would they be willing to give it up for PP?
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Vermont Green on May 08, 2013, 05:22:56 PM
We did this the other day (with Pierce only):

*Everything is 'Player(Salary in millions)'
Dallas Trades: Shawn Marion (9.3), Carter (3.2), Jared Cunningham (1.2),
#13 overall (roughly 1.6 million cap hold)= $15.3 million

Boston Trades: Paul Pierce ($15.3)

***This trade would only work out if Dallas gets Marion to sign away his ETO rights (like Dwight did) prior to the trade.

Dallas would then only have Nowitzki, Jae Crowder, and Bernard James on contract, plus the $5 million they owe after waiving Pierce, right around ~30 million.

So basically a max-level player.
I saw that you posted this in another thread.  I think this is a very interesting idea.  It assumes that KG retires (which I think is likely) and PP wants out.

We get some older assets that we may be able to "flip" plus we get a decent draft pick instead of just buying out Pierce and getting some but not enough cap space.  We take on some salary but we would probably not be in the market for a premier FA anyway.

Dallas through a slight of hand gets cap space on top of cap space and may end up turning Marion, Carter, et al into Chris Paul and/or Dwight Howard.  Not bad for them either.

The only down side I see with this is that PP could actually sign with Miami after being bought out by Dallas.  Yikes, but that is the risk with letting PP loose.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: LooseCannon on May 08, 2013, 05:31:20 PM
***This trade would only work out if Dallas gets Marion to sign away his ETO rights (like Dwight did) prior to the trade.

Or, the Mavs can wait until after the June 29 deadline for invoking ETOs to trade Marion.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: hpantazo on May 08, 2013, 05:50:13 PM
I don't see the benefit in trading Pierce and KG for cap space. There is no one to target with the cap space this year that is worthwhile. I believe we would be better off keeping them this year and letting them retire. We get the cap space anyway when they retire.

Either hold out for good young talent plus picks, or let them retire as celtics.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Lucky17 on May 08, 2013, 05:58:02 PM
I don't see the benefit in trading Pierce and KG for cap space. There is no one to target with the cap space this year that is worthwhile. I believe we would be better off keeping them this year and letting them retire. We get the cap space anyway when they retire.

Either hold out for good young talent plus picks, or let them retire as celtics.

One advantage: leveraging that cap space to acquire 2014 draft picks from teams desperate to trim payroll.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: indeedproceed on May 08, 2013, 06:16:08 PM
I don't see the benefit in trading Pierce and KG for cap space. There is no one to target with the cap space this year that is worthwhile. I believe we would be better off keeping them this year and letting them retire. We get the cap space anyway when they retire.

Either hold out for good young talent plus picks, or let them retire as celtics.

I think you're misunderstanding the intention. We're not trading pierce so WE have cap room, we're trading him so another team could have cap room, and we get young assets/picks in return for the favor. We're basically selling our cap space for next year.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Evantime34 on May 08, 2013, 06:25:38 PM
I don't see the benefit in trading Pierce and KG for cap space. There is no one to target with the cap space this year that is worthwhile. I believe we would be better off keeping them this year and letting them retire. We get the cap space anyway when they retire.

Either hold out for good young talent plus picks, or let them retire as celtics.

I think you're misunderstanding the intention. We're not trading pierce so WE have cap room, we're trading him so another team could have cap room, and we get young assets/picks in return for the favor. We're basically selling our cap space for next year.
I thought Jeff's idea was to send Kg and Pierce to Dallas if they struck out on free agents and wanted to make one more run with Dirk.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: indeedproceed on May 08, 2013, 06:31:56 PM
I don't see the benefit in trading Pierce and KG for cap space. There is no one to target with the cap space this year that is worthwhile. I believe we would be better off keeping them this year and letting them retire. We get the cap space anyway when they retire.

Either hold out for good young talent plus picks, or let them retire as celtics.

I think you're misunderstanding the intention. We're not trading pierce so WE have cap room, we're trading him so another team could have cap room, and we get young assets/picks in return for the favor. We're basically selling our cap space for next year.
I thought Jeff's idea was to send Kg and Pierce to Dallas if they struck out on free agents and wanted to make one more run with Dirk.

Hm..you're right Evantime. Maybe I misunderstood the intention.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Lucky17 on May 08, 2013, 06:41:59 PM
So, use IP's original idea, but tack back on the extra $10 mil to the Mavs' payroll to keep Pierce.

Puts them at around $40 mil, before they do anything with Beaubois and Collison (combined cap hold of $11.5 mil).

I think the Mavs would prefer to keep Cunningham as a cheap contract. Add $1.2 mil back.

Let's assume they let Roddy B walk, but keep Collison: add $5.8 mil cap hold.

Mavs would stand at $47 mil with a roster of Collison, Cunningham, Pierce, Dirk, B James, and Crowder.

There'd be cap holds for exceptions to figure in as well, I think. I'm not sure there'd be enough space to absorb KG's $12.5 mil outright. Might need to be some additional gymnastics by Dallas to pull it off. Maybe they could use Collison in a S&T for KG, and then hope to somehow land a PG at veteran min level (Billups?)?

PG: Billups
SG: Cunningham
SF: Pierce, Crowder
PF: Dirk
C:  KG, James

Razor-thin roster. Needs a combo guard and at least one other big who can be relied upon for 20 minutes a night.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: arctic 3.0 on May 08, 2013, 06:50:09 PM
Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.

Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Evantime34 on May 08, 2013, 07:19:34 PM
Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.
Our defense would surely be worse than last year, without KG. Josh Smith and Jefferson would improve our rebounding. Having a player who you can dump the ball into in the post for consistent scoring, would be a welcome change.

The hope would be that Doc could get Jefferson to play better defense and get Smith to stay disciplined on his rotations/shot selection.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on May 08, 2013, 07:46:34 PM
Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.

Decent team, but the offensive spacing would be terrible.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Geo123 on May 08, 2013, 08:18:24 PM
No way would the Mavs do that.  They didn't sign Chandler for that reason.  They want cap space to remake their roster for more of a longer term team.  They won't give that up for KF and Pierce plus I don't think there's any way KG would do that.

KG would go maybe the Rockets, but only because his relationship with McHale.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: hpantazo on May 08, 2013, 08:33:47 PM
Thanks for the explanations IP and Lucky, TPs for both of you. Selling cap space off to teams desperate for it makes sense when you put it that way.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Jeff on May 08, 2013, 08:36:10 PM
thanks guys - probably a long long shot, but interesting discussion
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: arctic 3.0 on May 09, 2013, 01:13:32 PM
Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.

Decent team, but the offensive spacing would be terrible.

al in the post, jeff and smith slashing and mid range. need a few shooters to spread the floor. doable...
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: arctic 3.0 on May 09, 2013, 01:14:53 PM
Dallas will have max cap space this summer for a run at Dwight Howard which will likely not happen

they can throw money at Josh Smith or some combo of other players, ...or

they could buy Pierce and KG from the Celtics to pair with Dirk for one more run at a title with Dirk

the salaries don't have to match but someone will have to help me out on the math - I think we would have to take someone back (Marion?) but whatever we save could be an immediate cap savings AND we'd have a huge (max?) trade exception

thoughts?

This is as good a plan as I've seen.
We give the old guys one more chance at ac ring and position ourselves well.
We could either take a swan dive next year, develop sully, rehab rondo, play mello and go for the ping pong balls.
Or we go after two $11-12 millplayers. Say big al and josh smith.
A core of rondo, green, smith and big al and bradley would all be under 30, and talented enough to reach the second round. We'd be a hot shot 2 guard from the top tier.
Or at least as good as Indy, Memphis and the bulls.
Our defense would surely be worse than last year, without KG. Josh Smith and Jefferson would improve our rebounding. Having a player who you can dump the ball into in the post for consistent scoring, would be a welcome change.

The hope would be that Doc could get Jefferson to play better defense and get Smith to stay disciplined on his rotations/shot selection.

you just can't replace KG's D. I don't think there is a player in the league we could acquire by hook or crook who would make up for his absence.
just gotta live with it if he leaves.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: indeedproceed on May 09, 2013, 01:26:53 PM
So, use IP's original idea, but tack back on the extra $10 mil to the Mavs' payroll to keep Pierce.

Puts them at around $40 mil, before they do anything with Beaubois and Collison (combined cap hold of $11.5 mil).

I think the Mavs would prefer to keep Cunningham as a cheap contract. Add $1.2 mil back.

Let's assume they let Roddy B walk, but keep Collison: add $5.8 mil cap hold.

Mavs would stand at $47 mil with a roster of Collison, Cunningham, Pierce, Dirk, B James, and Crowder.

There'd be cap holds for exceptions to figure in as well, I think. I'm not sure there'd be enough space to absorb KG's $12.5 mil outright. Might need to be some additional gymnastics by Dallas to pull it off. Maybe they could use Collison in a S&T for KG, and then hope to somehow land a PG at veteran min level (Billups?)?

PG: Billups
SG: Cunningham
SF: Pierce, Crowder
PF: Dirk
C:  KG, James

Razor-thin roster. Needs a combo guard and at least one other big who can be relied upon for 20 minutes a night.

Yeah see I think this whole plan (from Dallas's side) is just a non-starter. While its true that if the whole thing doesn't work out, they won't be all that worse for wear because everyone will basically come off the books, but they'll basically be squandering Dirk's final year (years?) on a plan they know pretty certainly won't work out. Relying on KG and Pierce as centerpieces of a team with title aspirations just isn't all that feasible or prudent.

And then, you figure that the 2014's FA class, while bursting with players with ETO's (LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Melo) and some pretty decent RFA's who it looks like will be gangbusters (Paul George, Derrick Favors, Larry Sanders), there really doesn't look like there are guys there who will actually be in the position or inclination to switch teams.

Dallas's best play is to go after CP3 or DWight this offseason, IMO
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Moranis on May 09, 2013, 04:27:08 PM
So, use IP's original idea, but tack back on the extra $10 mil to the Mavs' payroll to keep Pierce.

Puts them at around $40 mil, before they do anything with Beaubois and Collison (combined cap hold of $11.5 mil).

I think the Mavs would prefer to keep Cunningham as a cheap contract. Add $1.2 mil back.

Let's assume they let Roddy B walk, but keep Collison: add $5.8 mil cap hold.

Mavs would stand at $47 mil with a roster of Collison, Cunningham, Pierce, Dirk, B James, and Crowder.

There'd be cap holds for exceptions to figure in as well, I think. I'm not sure there'd be enough space to absorb KG's $12.5 mil outright. Might need to be some additional gymnastics by Dallas to pull it off. Maybe they could use Collison in a S&T for KG, and then hope to somehow land a PG at veteran min level (Billups?)?

PG: Billups
SG: Cunningham
SF: Pierce, Crowder
PF: Dirk
C:  KG, James

Razor-thin roster. Needs a combo guard and at least one other big who can be relied upon for 20 minutes a night.

Yeah see I think this whole plan (from Dallas's side) is just a non-starter. While its true that if the whole thing doesn't work out, they won't be all that worse for wear because everyone will basically come off the books, but they'll basically be squandering Dirk's final year (years?) on a plan they know pretty certainly won't work out. Relying on KG and Pierce as centerpieces of a team with title aspirations just isn't all that feasible or prudent.

And then, you figure that the 2014's FA class, while bursting with players with ETO's (LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Melo) and some pretty decent RFA's who it looks like will be gangbusters (Paul George, Derrick Favors, Larry Sanders), there really doesn't look like there are guys there who will actually be in the position or inclination to switch teams.

Dallas's best play is to go after CP3 or DWight this offseason, IMO
It is, but Jeff's proposal was if they struck out on the big name guys like Dwight and CP3.  I can't imagine they do what they did this year again, so I think the PP and KG idea makes a lot of sense if they do strike out as PP then expires and KG will likely retire and Dallas can try again in 2014.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: chambers on May 10, 2013, 04:39:49 AM
I wonder if instead of the cap hold we could take their late lottery pick and Jae Crowder or another young asset.
That way they keep Pierce, KG, Dirk, and still have money to sign the right role players to short term deals too.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: D.o.s. on May 10, 2013, 06:02:19 AM
I imagine the people who get excited about trading Hall of Famers for cap space are the same people who experience immense tightening of the trousers when reading sabermetrics from excel spreadsheets.

As a fan of the game, I can't get stoked on the idea, even though it "makes sense" from a GM-y point of view.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: JSD on May 10, 2013, 07:20:23 AM
It has been my thinking for a while now that Dallas would be the perfect trading partner:

I think Dallas and Dirk is an interesting situation. What if they can't land anyone with that all that cap space?

I'm starting to think that Dallas and Boston are good trading partner allowing one of the teams to contend and one to blow it up.


But why are we giving up the HOFers? WE should be the ones going all out for DIRK!

Rondo
Lee
Pierce
DIRK
KG

Terry
Williams

Trade everyone else including our draft picks for DIRK. Run it back one more time.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: Celtics4ever on May 10, 2013, 07:42:43 AM
One could dread doing this and still love the team.   It's the big picture.   I dread getting older for the team, and I dread keeping them all at the same time.
Title: Re: Idea: Pierce and KG to Mavs for cap room
Post by: chambers on May 10, 2013, 07:52:20 AM
I imagine the people who get excited about trading Hall of Famers for cap space are the same people who experience immense tightening of the trousers when reading sabermetrics from excel spreadsheets.

As a fan of the game, I can't get stoked on the idea, even though it "makes sense" from a GM-y point of view.

I don't know what Sabermetrics are. Don't know how to use excel either. All I know is that it means we go from mediocrity and potentially closer to the next banner.

If we were going to run it back one one more time then we need another star. Dirk could come here I suppose, but we'd have to send out (Bass+ Terry) or (Jeff Green)+ Bradley, Lee and multiple picks. Either Sully or Green is gone in that situation.

Even with Dirk are we a serious 'elite' contender? I'm not sure. It sure as hell gives Pierce a break from carrying the scoring load on his back.
I think Dallas would probably also demand Jeff Green in some kind of scenario like this.

Personally would rather dump Pierce and get some decent stuff from Dallas like a late lottery pick+Marion or Pierce+KG for Marion+Craeder+lottery pick etc...