CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: OsirusCeltics on May 08, 2013, 10:44:27 AM
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A while ago while many were trying to court Dwight Howard into coming to the Celtics, I instead wanted Marc Gasol to come to the Celtics
And I still stick by it. It was evident in this playoffs
Gasol is a better scorer, post player, better at post defense, interior passing, and most importantly performs better in the 4th quarter
Who else thinks Gasol is the best center in the NBA?
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I still think taking Gasol over Howard is nuts.
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I love me some Marc, but I think healthy Dwight Howard is going to remind us all why we thought their was such a sizeable gap between him and the rest of the center crop.
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I absolutely, positively hate Howard but when he's healthy he's clearly better than Gasol. He's a career 20/14 guy in the playoffs and Marc's a 16/9 guy.
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Howard, even this year which was his worst since he was a 19/20 year old, scored more points more efficiently than Gasol.
He's also taken a team farther in the playoffs. Gasol was better this year, due to his ability to space the floor, passing, and superior health.
But Howard was showing his old athleticism again towards the end of the season. I see no reason he won't recover and regain his advantages over Gasol.
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At a time when illogical individual player comparisons are becoming the rule here, this is one of the bigger ones.
Howard, every day of the week.
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I've been pounding the Marc pavement ever since I drafted him, Z-Bo, Rudy Gay, Paul George and Tony Parker on the same team in a Celticsblog draft and lost in the second round.
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I've been pounding the Marc pavement ever since I drafted him, Z-Bo, Rudy Gay, Paul George and Tony Parker on the same team in a Celticsblog draft and lost in the second round.
Listen Listen Listen, Im gonna let you finish, But Nick and I had the greatest team OF ALL TIME.
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Still rather Howard.
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Gasol is by far the smarter big, but this isn't much of a question.... Howard>Gasol.
Howard when healthy can do 18/10 with ease.
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Would love to have Howard except his emotional baggage that comes with him. I'm hoping he's slowly growing out of that. If he ever let someone like KG get a hold of him and whip his head into the game (something he seems to regress from Ala Kobe), he could make an awesome Celtic and put us back on the Map easily! Man all of us are dying for a true center!
But if he's going to remain a headcase that disrupts teams by being a prima donna, I think I'd rather have Gasol. At least you know he's going to bring what he's got and play for his team.
Both are a lot better than what we have and both appear to be pipe dreams. :(
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DH is the better player when both are healthy. having Gasol wouldn't suck though. I could see the debate if we add in contract considerations though. Gasol shouldn't cost as much as DH and he's more than capable of manning the middle at a more cap-friendly cost
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On basketball ability, it's Howard, no contest.
Add personality, team morale, and salary to the equation, and it narrows considerably. Still would have to go with Dwight though. But that would not be a bad choice to be able to make.
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I've been pounding the Marc pavement ever since I drafted him, Z-Bo, Rudy Gay, Paul George and Tony Parker on the same team in a Celticsblog draft and lost in the second round.
Listen Listen Listen, Im gonna let you finish, But Nick and I had the greatest team OF ALL TIME.
*sarcastic clap* great job building a good Lebron James team. How VERY challenging that must've been *sarcastic clap*
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I've been pounding the Marc pavement ever since I drafted him, Z-Bo, Rudy Gay, Paul George and Tony Parker on the same team in a Celticsblog draft and lost in the second round.
Listen Listen Listen, Im gonna let you finish, But Nick and I had the greatest team OF ALL TIME.
*sarcastic clap* great job building a good Lebron James team. How VERY challenging that must've been *sarcastic clap*
Cleveland never figured it out.
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I've been pounding the Marc pavement ever since I drafted him, Z-Bo, Rudy Gay, Paul George and Tony Parker on the same team in a Celticsblog draft and lost in the second round.
Listen Listen Listen, Im gonna let you finish, But Nick and I had the greatest team OF ALL TIME.
*sarcastic clap* great job building a good Lebron James team. How VERY challenging that must've been *sarcastic clap*
Cleveland never figured it out.
This is WAY far off topic - but I think they were closer than a lot of us gave them credit for (myself included). The pieces really fit pretty well for a James team, they just needed a 2 guard with some firepower.
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Yeah, I agree with the OP. Much rather have Gasol.
You can actually count on him, and run your offense through him in the 4th quarter. Gasol actually makes his free throws, has post legit post moves, and is a far superior passer.
Howard relies solely on his athletic ability. That won't last forever. Howard is not going to age well.
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Marc's probably the best bigman passer in the game but Howard's actually a pretty underrated passer himself. Passes out of the double VERY well.
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I would. Gasol is more versatile, different but equal defender and a significantly better locker room presence.
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A while ago while many were trying to court Dwight Howard into coming to the Celtics, I instead wanted Marc Gasol to come to the Celtics
And I still stick by it. It was evident in this playoffs
Gasol is a better scorer, post player, better at post defense, interior passing, and most importantly performs better in the 4th quarter
Who else thinks Gasol is the best center in the NBA?
No, I don't remember :)
In terms of which to "take", assuming both want the same money (max contract), I'd probably take Howard (also assuming his back pans out).
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Yeah, I agree with the OP. Much rather have Gasol.
You can actually count on him, and run your offense through him in the 4th quarter. Gasol actually makes his free throws, has post legit post moves, and is a far superior passer.
Howard relies solely on his athletic ability. That won't last forever. Howard is not going to age well.
In addition to great athletic ability, Howard has size and strength that will last forever.
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Yeah, I agree with the OP. Much rather have Gasol.
You can actually count on him, and run your offense through him in the 4th quarter. Gasol actually makes his free throws, has post legit post moves, and is a far superior passer.
Howard relies solely on his athletic ability. That won't last forever. Howard is not going to age well.
In addition to great athletic ability, Howard has size and strength that will last forever.
Huh? Gasol is 2" taller and listed at the same weight as Howard. Stronger, I'm not sure about, but I doubt there is much of a difference.
Howard is just simply more athletic. That will not last forever.
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Yeah, I agree with the OP. Much rather have Gasol.
You can actually count on him, and run your offense through him in the 4th quarter. Gasol actually makes his free throws, has post legit post moves, and is a far superior passer.
Howard relies solely on his athletic ability. That won't last forever. Howard is not going to age well.
In addition to great athletic ability, Howard has size and strength that will last forever.
Huh? Gasol is 2" taller and listed at the same weight as Howard. Stronger, I'm not sure about, but I doubt there is much of a difference.
Howard is just simply more athletic. That will not last forever.
Yes, Gasol is taller. I mean Howard will generally have a size/strength advantage over much of the league.
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But really, since when is athleticism a barometer for talent?
I'm still wondering in what aspect of the game is Howard better than Gasol at besides running and jumping
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He's also taken a team farther in the playoffs.
To be fair, the season Howard and the Magic went to the Finals was the year the Cs were without KG in the postseason, and it still took the Magic 7 games to beat Boston. No way Orlando gets by the Cs if KG is there. So I don't see Howard's leading the Magic to the Finals as fully legit.
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But really, since when is athleticism a barometer for talent?
I'm still wondering in what aspect of the game is Howard better than Gasol at besides running and jumping
Howard is a significantly better rebounder. Howard has much better offensive post skills (he isn't all dunks) and because of that hits a much higher percentage from the field and has a much higher point per shot (even with his awful foul shooting). Howard is a much better shot blocker. Howard, when healthy, is also a much better defender.
Howard is better than Gasol and frankly I don't think it is really close.
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A healthy Howard displays dominance, but that dominance is bit misleading. His game is based almost entirely on sheer strength and athleticism—he has a poor post game, is not a great passer, and can't hit from outside of 8 feet to save his life. Gasol, while clearly a less-impressive physical specimen, can do all of these things while still getting a decent amount of points, rebounds, and blocks.
Of course, this is largely splitting hairs; I'd take the talents of either player (though not Dwight's mindset) in a heartbeat.
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Howard has much better offensive post skills (he isn't all dunks)
I must be looking away from the TV every time Howard puts his offensive post skills to work. ;D
Seriously, though, I'm not sure what you're seeing when you watch Howard play. The only actual post move I've ever seen him make is the running hook shot—no spin move, no fadeaway, no dream shake, no up-and-under. I'd estimate his offense to be at least 90% alley-oops, putbacks, or simply getting good (deep) position on his man and overpowering him—not that any of those things are bad, but they're a far cry from having actual post skills.
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He's also taken a team farther in the playoffs.
To be fair, the season Howard and the Magic went to the Finals was the year the Cs were without KG in the postseason, and it still took the Magic 7 games to beat Boston. No way Orlando gets by the Cs if KG is there. So I don't see Howard's leading the Magic to the Finals as fully legit.
Every season a team has major injuries that effects their status, Magic had a legit finals run and beat an extremely good Cleveland team after the C's as well.
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He's also taken a team farther in the playoffs.
To be fair, the season Howard and the Magic went to the Finals was the year the Cs were without KG in the postseason, and it still took the Magic 7 games to beat Boston. No way Orlando gets by the Cs if KG is there. So I don't see Howard's leading the Magic to the Finals as fully legit.
Wasn't Jameer Nelson out as well?
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/33274056.jpg)
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id still rather have dwight.
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Dwight Howard's worst season, aside from his rookie year, is still better than Marc Gasol's best season.
I don't personally see this as even a close comparison or see the case for Gasol as a better player.
I'd rather have Dwight. Dwight and Rondo would be dangerous together with a few shooters to space the floor.
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But really, since when is athleticism a barometer for talent?
I'm still wondering in what aspect of the game is Howard better than Gasol at besides running and jumping
Just a quick comparison but Gasol was just named DPOY and probably has a shot at the all-defense team. Howard has 5 all nba 1st team selections, 4 1st team all defense selections,3 DPOY awards, 4 top 5 finishes in MVP voting and is one of the better rebounders in the history of the game. It's not that close between them.
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But really, since when is athleticism a barometer for talent?
I'm still wondering in what aspect of the game is Howard better than Gasol at besides running and jumping
Just a quick comparison but Gasol was just named DPOY and probably has a shot at the all-defense team. Howard has 5 all nba 1st team selections, 4 1st team all defense selections,3 DPOY awards, 4 top 5 finishes in MVP voting and is one of the better rebounders in the history of the game. It's not that close between them.
Also been in the league 5 years longer.
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He's also taken a team farther in the playoffs.
To be fair, the season Howard and the Magic went to the Finals was the year the Cs were without KG in the postseason, and it still took the Magic 7 games to beat Boston. No way Orlando gets by the Cs if KG is there. So I don't see Howard's leading the Magic to the Finals as fully legit.
Wasn't Jameer Nelson out as well?
Don't remember. Not quite the same as missing KG, though.
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Dwight Howard's worst season, aside from his rookie year, is still better than Marc Gasol's best season.
I don't personally see this as even a close comparison or see the case for Gasol as a better player.
I'd rather have Dwight. Dwight and Rondo would be dangerous together with a few shooters to space the floor.
The would indeed be dangerous together. The problem is that Dwight is as much a danger to his team as he is a blessing, thanks to his crappy attitude.
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But really, since when is athleticism a barometer for talent?
I'm still wondering in what aspect of the game is Howard better than Gasol at besides running and jumping
Just a quick comparison but Gasol was just named DPOY and probably has a shot at the all-defense team. Howard has 5 all nba 1st team selections, 4 1st team all defense selections,3 DPOY awards, 4 top 5 finishes in MVP voting and is one of the better rebounders in the history of the game. It's not that close between them.
Also been in the league 5 years longer.
Also younger than Gasol.
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I still think taking Gasol over Howard is nuts.
And you'd be right.
You can build a contender around Dwight... he's taken a team to the Finals with minimal support.
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I'd take Marc Gasol any day.
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I'd take Marc Gasol any day.
TP and congrats for your new star...
Dwight may have better numbers, better resume and 2 hard boiled eggs, but Marc is a better fit here and on (almost)every team in the League.
Marc's a good teammate, hard worker, character guy, can pass and shoot. Of course, Dwight can jump and rebound and block shots... and crumble when his team needs him.
Dwight fits perfectly on the Hollywood Lakers. Give me Marc Gasol over him any day, like CelticConcourse says above.
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/33274056.jpg)
LOL!
the title is so funny.
Member is not a short form of Remember. hahahaha
I'm weak.
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjQCVgzjTf5XgJf323Wy9oj3cKY-MvLAK-jW2ra_cNz82Q-QJ8EA)
If you'd have convinced someone to take a kid who had weight problems who looked like this earlier than the Lakers, especially in the first round, you would have gotten a job and possibly been a very rich woman/man.
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But really, since when is athleticism a barometer for talent?
I'm still wondering in what aspect of the game is Howard better than Gasol at besides running and jumping
......as if running and jumping aren't essential skills to playing basketball....
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I would. Gasol is more versatile, different but equal defender and a significantly better locker room presence.
What difference does it make if he's more versatile if Howard still produces substantially more?
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I would. Gasol is more versatile, different but equal defender and a significantly better locker room presence.
What difference does it make if he's more versatile if Howard still produces substantially more?
That's the trick, he doesn't, really.
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Gasol is more durable now and much more likely in the future now.
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I would. Gasol is more versatile, different but equal defender and a significantly better locker room presence.
What difference does it make if he's more versatile if Howard still produces substantially more?
That's the trick, he doesn't, really.
Yes he does. Even this year coming back from injury, Dwight produced substantially more. 3 more points per game, 4.6 more rebounds per game, and .7 more blocks per game. Not to mention Dwight hits a far greater percentage of his FG attempts. Marc is a better passer and better from the foul line, but that is about it.
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I would. Gasol is more versatile, different but equal defender and a significantly better locker room presence.
What difference does it make if he's more versatile if Howard still produces substantially more?
That's the trick, he doesn't, really.
Yes he does. Even this year coming back from injury, Dwight produced substantially more. 3 more points per game, 4.6 more rebounds per game, and .7 more blocks per game. Not to mention Dwight hits a far greater percentage of his FG attempts. Marc is a better passer and better from the foul line, but that is about it.
Marc also is a solid 15 foot jump shooter, so he can provide spacing that way.
But yeah passing, free throw shooting, and floor spacing are the limits to Gasol's advantages over Howard.
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Let's just say I'd be willing to bet good money Gasol wins a title before Howard ever does. In fact, I doubt Howard ever will.
Howard is such a poor leader and poor 4th quarter player, there is very little likelihood a team with him as it's best player wins a title.
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I would. Gasol is more versatile, different but equal defender and a significantly better locker room presence.
What difference does it make if he's more versatile if Howard still produces substantially more?
That's the trick, he doesn't, really.
Yes he does. Even this year coming back from injury, Dwight produced substantially more. 3 more points per game, 4.6 more rebounds per game, and .7 more blocks per game. Not to mention Dwight hits a far greater percentage of his FG attempts. Marc is a better passer and better from the foul line, but that is about it.
Marc also is a solid 15 foot jump shooter, so he can provide spacing that way.
But yeah passing, free throw shooting, and floor spacing are the limits to Gasol's advantages over Howard.
A lot of the stats you mentioned, rebounds and Shooting Percentage, have more to do with the fact Marc plays with ZBo than it does a differance between Marc and Dwight's talent.
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Marc Gasoline 30X the IQ of Howard.........Howard has the maturity of a spoiled 18 yr old boy
maybe when Howard is 60 yrs old he'll grow up....
he can' t make decision on or off the court .......
overpaid 7 ft bratt
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I'd rather have Marc Gasol (or Joakim Noah, for that matter) than Dwight Howard. Howard's physical talents are undeniable. I don't think I've ever seen a player with his combination of size, strength, quickness, and agility. And, yeah, he did dominate for a while down in Orlando, but in recent years, I've become fed up with his antics. It seems that whatever he's going through mentally is showing on the court.
With guys like Gasol and Noah, I just feel like they know what their roles are, they are always going to play hard, they are a couple of warriors. So, despite the downgrade in talent, there are at least two centers I'd rather have than Dwight Howard. That said, he's still only 27 years old. If he can get healthy physically and mentally, he can still be dominant.
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Let's just say I'd be willing to bet good money Gasol wins a title before Howard ever does. In fact, I doubt Howard ever will.
Howard is such a poor leader and poor 4th quarter player, there is very little likelihood a team with him as it's best player wins a title.
I'd say that the fact that a team with Howard (at age 23) as it's best player getting to the finals puts the likelihood much higher than you'd imagine.
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I'd rather have Marc Gasol (or Joakim Noah, for that matter) than Dwight Howard. Howard's physical talents are undeniable. I don't think I've ever seen a player with his combination of size, strength, quickness, and agility. And, yeah, he did dominate for a while down in Orlando, but in recent years, I've become fed up with his antics. It seems that whatever he's going through mentally is showing on the court.
With guys like Gasol and Noah, I just feel like they know what their roles are, they are always going to play hard, they are a couple of warriors. So, despite the downgrade in talent, there are at least two centers I'd rather have than Dwight Howard. That said, he's still only 27 years old. If he can get healthy physically and mentally, he can still be dominant.
Also, out of nowhere, this year Noah has proven that you can actually run some offense through him. Of course, the plantar fasciitis is a concern, but so is Howard's back.
In any case, I too would have Gasol or Noah. Howard may be the better physical specimen, but those two are the better/more skilled basketball players.
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I would. Gasol is more versatile, different but equal defender and a significantly better locker room presence.
What difference does it make if he's more versatile if Howard still produces substantially more?
That's the trick, he doesn't, really.
Yes he does. Even this year coming back from injury, Dwight produced substantially more. 3 more points per game, 4.6 more rebounds per game, and .7 more blocks per game. Not to mention Dwight hits a far greater percentage of his FG attempts. Marc is a better passer and better from the foul line, but that is about it.
Marc also is a solid 15 foot jump shooter, so he can provide spacing that way.
But yeah passing, free throw shooting, and floor spacing are the limits to Gasol's advantages over Howard.
A lot of the stats you mentioned, rebounds and Shooting Percentage, have more to do with the fact Marc plays with ZBo than it does a differance between Marc and Dwight's talent.
Is Pau Gasol chopped liver all of a sudden? Now granted Pau missed about half the year, but the combination of Pau + Dwight far exceeded the combination of Marc + Zach.
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I would. Gasol is more versatile, different but equal defender and a significantly better locker room presence.
What difference does it make if he's more versatile if Howard still produces substantially more?
That's the trick, he doesn't, really.
Yes he does. Even this year coming back from injury, Dwight produced substantially more. 3 more points per game, 4.6 more rebounds per game, and .7 more blocks per game. Not to mention Dwight hits a far greater percentage of his FG attempts. Marc is a better passer and better from the foul line, but that is about it.
Marc also is a solid 15 foot jump shooter, so he can provide spacing that way.
But yeah passing, free throw shooting, and floor spacing are the limits to Gasol's advantages over Howard.
A lot of the stats you mentioned, rebounds and Shooting Percentage, have more to do with the fact Marc plays with ZBo than it does a differance between Marc and Dwight's talent.
Is Pau Gasol chopped liver all of a sudden? Now granted Pau missed about half the year, but the combination of Pau + Dwight far exceeded the combination of Marc + Zach.
A Half the year. B, Pau doesn't limit Dwight's activity near the basket at all-- This was one of the Laker's Chemistry issues this year-- whereas ZBo significantly impacts the amount of time Marc spends near the basket which impacts his RBG and shooting percentage.
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I'd rather have Marc Gasol (or Joakim Noah, for that matter) than Dwight Howard. Howard's physical talents are undeniable. I don't think I've ever seen a player with his combination of size, strength, quickness, and agility. And, yeah, he did dominate for a while down in Orlando, but in recent years, I've become fed up with his antics. It seems that whatever he's going through mentally is showing on the court.
With guys like Gasol and Noah, I just feel like they know what their roles are, they are always going to play hard, they are a couple of warriors. So, despite the downgrade in talent, there are at least two centers I'd rather have than Dwight Howard. That said, he's still only 27 years old. If he can get healthy physically and mentally, he can still be dominant.
If you say so. Howard still has had more playoff success than either Noah/Gasol with considerably less talent around him.
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I'd rather have Marc Gasol (or Joakim Noah, for that matter) than Dwight Howard. Howard's physical talents are undeniable. I don't think I've ever seen a player with his combination of size, strength, quickness, and agility. And, yeah, he did dominate for a while down in Orlando, but in recent years, I've become fed up with his antics. It seems that whatever he's going through mentally is showing on the court.
With guys like Gasol and Noah, I just feel like they know what their roles are, they are always going to play hard, they are a couple of warriors. So, despite the downgrade in talent, there are at least two centers I'd rather have than Dwight Howard. That said, he's still only 27 years old. If he can get healthy physically and mentally, he can still be dominant.
If you say so. Howard still has had more playoff success than either Noah/Gasol with considerably less talent around him.
True. He had a great, dominant run down in Orlando. Still, though, if you told me that I could add any center in the league to the Celtics right now and give up nothing, I'd choose Joakim Noah.
I just trust that guy to go out there and compete, and give it his all and not make any excuses, every time he steps on the court.
Just like his dad.
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howard is a better player, but id rather have marc gasol
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I'd rather have Marc Gasol (or Joakim Noah, for that matter) than Dwight Howard. Howard's physical talents are undeniable. I don't think I've ever seen a player with his combination of size, strength, quickness, and agility. And, yeah, he did dominate for a while down in Orlando, but in recent years, I've become fed up with his antics. It seems that whatever he's going through mentally is showing on the court.
With guys like Gasol and Noah, I just feel like they know what their roles are, they are always going to play hard, they are a couple of warriors. So, despite the downgrade in talent, there are at least two centers I'd rather have than Dwight Howard. That said, he's still only 27 years old. If he can get healthy physically and mentally, he can still be dominant.
I always forget that Dwight is the same age as Rondo. Leading that Orlando team to the Finals at only 23 years old makes me believe that, despite being incredibly immature at times, he could easily duplicate that in the near future if you pair him with a top guard and a few outside shooters. The Houston Rockets, for example, would be a great fit for DH.
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You get Howard.
You pair him with a player that is a strong leader and a strong coach.
Win games. Have happy player.
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I'd rather have Marc Gasol (or Joakim Noah, for that matter) than Dwight Howard. Howard's physical talents are undeniable. I don't think I've ever seen a player with his combination of size, strength, quickness, and agility. And, yeah, he did dominate for a while down in Orlando, but in recent years, I've become fed up with his antics. It seems that whatever he's going through mentally is showing on the court.
With guys like Gasol and Noah, I just feel like they know what their roles are, they are always going to play hard, they are a couple of warriors. So, despite the downgrade in talent, there are at least two centers I'd rather have than Dwight Howard. That said, he's still only 27 years old. If he can get healthy physically and mentally, he can still be dominant.
I always forget that Dwight is the same age as Rondo. Leading that Orlando team to the Finals at only 23 years old makes me believe that, despite being incredibly immature at times, he could easily duplicate that in the near future if you pair him with a top guard and a few outside shooters. The Houston Rockets, for example, would be a great fit for DH.
Maybe...go back and look at some of the tape from that year--it's incredible how much the back surgery affected his athleticism this season.
Also... huh-huh... "Member." huh-huh
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Howard has much better offensive post skills (he isn't all dunks)
I must be looking away from the TV every time Howard puts his offensive post skills to work. ;D
Seriously, though, I'm not sure what you're seeing when you watch Howard play. The only actual post move I've ever seen him make is the running hook shot—no spin move, no fadeaway, no dream shake, no up-and-under. I'd estimate his offense to be at least 90% alley-oops, putbacks, or simply getting good (deep) position on his man and overpowering him—not that any of those things are bad, but they're a far cry from having actual post skills.
Yupp totally agree
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You were right
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It was so evident in the last 3 games Memphis played against the Thunder in the playoffs
Gasol impacts the game offensively for his team that Howard can only dream of
He's hands dowm the best passing big man in the league right now
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Tim Legler apparently agrees.
Most complete center in basketball today.
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Gasol impacts the game offensively for his team that Howard can only dream of
He's hands dowm the best passing big man in the league right now
Not true at all, they just have very different types of impacts.
Howard is an absolutely devasting pick and roll player who commands a ton of help. He's also a pretty efficient post player despite all the negativity about his post game. He adds dimension of offensive rebounding that Gasol doesn't. Howard effects the offense without touching the ball via his post ups and rolls.
Gasol by contrast is primarily a high post man who can hit the 18 foot jump shot and is a great facilitator with the ball.
Both are fantastic facilitators for their team, the just do so in different ways.