CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Boris Badenov on March 04, 2013, 03:24:23 PM
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Someone please explain to me how Avery Bradley is not even mentioned as best defender.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/weekenddime-130301-02/weekend-dime
Bradley is currently 2nd in the league in points per possession (0.678), according to Synergy.
Before January 2013 we were 22nd in defensive efficiency and allowing 37% shooting on 3 pointers - also 22nd.
Since then we are 2nd in defensive efficiency and allowing 31% on 3s - best in the league.
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UNDERRATED UNDERRATED UNDERRATED UNDERRATED UNDERRATED UNDERRATED UNDERRATED --
There's no way he's not on one of those lists. He should make an All-NBA Defensive team.
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Someone please explain to me how Avery Bradley is not even mentioned as best defender.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/weekenddime-130301-02/weekend-dime
Bradley is currently 2nd in the league in points per possession (0.678), according to Synergy.
Before January 2013 we were 22nd in defensive efficiency and allowing 37% shooting on 3 pointers - also 22nd.
Since then we are 2nd in defensive efficiency and allowing 31% on 3s - best in the league.
How did you get the Synergy information? Do you pay for the site or do you know another site to get the information?
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Someone please explain to me how Avery Bradley is not even mentioned as best defender.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/weekenddime-130301-02/weekend-dime
Bradley is currently 2nd in the league in points per possession (0.678), according to Synergy.
Before January 2013 we were 22nd in defensive efficiency and allowing 37% shooting on 3 pointers - also 22nd.
Since then we are 2nd in defensive efficiency and allowing 31% on 3s - best in the league.
How did you get the Synergy information? Do you pay for the site or do you know another site to get the information?
I don't have it - I just swiped this (and the info about shooting %s) from another story about Bradley.
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Even the officials know Bradley is good.
WALTHAM, Mass. -- During a break in the action of Friday's game against the Golden State Warriors, a referee approached Celtics coach Doc Rivers to ask if Avery Bradley had really endured double shoulder surgery before the season. We'll let Rivers take it from there.
"[The referee] said, ‘I had one shoulder done and I was out six months and I still feel bad.’ I said, ‘That’s why you’re an official,’" Rivers recalled with a laugh. "I did see three bad calls after that, I said, ‘My gosh, I was just joking.'"
Both Rivers and Kevin Garnett admitted that Bradley is likely not 100 perent this season. That hasn't stopped him from playing relentless defense, the sort that even officials take notice when he's hounding the likes of Golden State sharpshooter Steph Curry. Bradley missed the first 30 games of the season while rehabbing from surgery on both shoulders this offseason, which only makes what he's doing defensively all the more impressive.
"Avery is everything to our defense," said Garnett. "I think he’s the anchor, if you will. He’s the true inspiration of what it is. He’s up on the ball, like 90-95 percent of the time. If you look at any other guard in the league, no one is playing defense like he is. He’s just tenacious man. I call him the silent leader and it’s by example."
With the veterans getting a day of rest on Sunday, Bradley's leadership was thrust into the spotlight, even as the youngest player on the floor as part of the team's nine-man practice.
"Although he isn’t really loud, he’s very vibrant," added Garnett. "I don’t think he’s 100 percent [healthy], which is scary. I think he’s still working through some things with his past injuries, but he’s playing hard and he’s giving us everything he has when he’s on the floor."
Rivers admits it's unique to find a player like Bradley, who is willing to invest so much of himself on a side of the ball where statistics still struggle to fully quantify his impact.
"He’s unique. It sets him apart in a lot of ways," said Rivers. "There’s not a lot of guys that want to [pressure the ball]. There are probably a lot of guys that can do it, but there are very few that want to, and that’s the key part. Avery enjoys it, he enjoys the defensive assignments. He looks at the other team’s best player at the 1, 2, or even 3 at times, and he’s looking forward to matchups. That’s a guy who understands who he is, and that’s a good sign."
Bradley is second in the league while allowing a mere 0.678 points per play, according to Synergy Sports data. Opponents are shooting a mere 30.9 percent against him and generate points a mere 31.4 percent of possessions against him. And that only scratches the surface as Rivers often points out how his ball pressure often forces opponents into their sets late and causes rushed shots that improve Boston's overall defensive numbers.
Just imagine what he's capable of when he's 100 percent.
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4702911/bradley-shouldering-defense-for-cs
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maybe he missed too much time for the award?
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maybe he missed too much time for the award?
No, that's just it - these are his "second trimester" awards, which includes almost exactly the time since Bradley has been back.
We played 30 games before his return and have played 27 since.
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Ask him
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/mailbag/_/id/3033
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a) Celtics have a worse record than the Pacers and the Bulls, two teams which over the course of the season have defended better. That gives the edge to Hibbert and Noah. The Knicks also have a better record and Tyson Chandler is still transforming what would otherwise be a terrible defensive team into a quite good one, on a nightly basis.
b) Big men have a more noticeable effect on the box score.
c) Bradley has a truly great defender as a teammate, who happens to be a big man and the anchor of the C's defense -- KG -- who takes the focus of outsiders away from his abilities.
d) Avery missed nearly half the season.
e) In any case, the smart money (i.e. people who do bball stats for a living) is on Larry Sanders as defender making the biggest impact in the league right now.
Even if we're just talking about the time since Bradley returned, I would put Sanders, Noah, and Chandler ahead of Bradley for the award. I'd probably recognize KG ahead of Bradley, too.
Avery is definitely the best defender at guard in the league, though, in my opinion.
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a) Celtics have a worse record than the Pacers and the Bulls, two teams which over the course of the season have defended better. That gives the edge to Hibbert and Noah. The Knicks also have a better record and Tyson Chandler is still transforming what would otherwise be a terrible defensive team into a quite good one, on a nightly basis.
b) Big men have a more noticeable effect on the box score.
c) Bradley has a truly great defender as a teammate, who happens to be a big man and the anchor of the C's defense -- KG -- who takes the focus of outsiders away from his abilities.
d) Avery missed nearly half the season.
e) In any case, the smart money (i.e. people who do bball stats for a living) is on Larry Sanders as defender making the biggest impact in the league right now.
Even if we're just talking about the time since Bradley returned, I would put Sanders, Noah, and Chandler ahead of Bradley for the award. I'd probably recognize KG ahead of Bradley, too.
Avery is definitely the best defender at guard in the league, though, in my opinion.
Always annoys me when people say the person leading the league in blocks or steals is the best defender in the league. This just isn't the case. Just like Ibaka is not as good of a defender as KG is.
You give far too little credit to perimeter defenders. It's somewhat understandable given that it's become both hard to do legally and a lost art, but that's what makes Avery so special.
The reason he has to be All-NBA and considered a top defender is because of how much better he is relatively than other players who play his position. This is how we have to determine value.
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a) Celtics have a worse record than the Pacers and the Bulls, two teams which over the course of the season have defended better. That gives the edge to Hibbert and Noah. The Knicks also have a better record and Tyson Chandler is still transforming what would otherwise be a terrible defensive team into a quite good one, on a nightly basis.
b) Big men have a more noticeable effect on the box score.
c) Bradley has a truly great defender as a teammate, who happens to be a big man and the anchor of the C's defense -- KG -- who takes the focus of outsiders away from his abilities.
d) Avery missed nearly half the season.
e) In any case, the smart money (i.e. people who do bball stats for a living) is on Larry Sanders as defender making the biggest impact in the league right now.
Even if we're just talking about the time since Bradley returned, I would put Sanders, Noah, and Chandler ahead of Bradley for the award. I'd probably recognize KG ahead of Bradley, too.
Avery is definitely the best defender at guard in the league, though, in my opinion.
We should be talking about the time since he returned, since that's the time period Stein is talking about.
Over that time our defense is the best in the league on many dimensions, and top 3 by any definition.
Since 1/1 CHI is 18-13, IND is 22-10, and we are 17-11. Comparable.
And in any event I'm not upset that Stein would think that someone else is better. I'm just shocked that Bradley is not even mentioned. It seems completely nuts to me.
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I find it even funnier he mentions Roy Hibbert as deserving but not Tony Allen or Tyson Chandler.
Also no mention of Harden as most improved?
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I can respect him choosing Noah, but yeah, it doesn't make sense to not even mention Bradley.
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Since January, we played 16 home games and 12 away.
Chicago played only 14 homes games and 17 away.
Indy played a whopping 18 home games and only 11 away.
Just to provide some perspective.
Smitty77
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a) Celtics have a worse record than the Pacers and the Bulls, two teams which over the course of the season have defended better. That gives the edge to Hibbert and Noah. The Knicks also have a better record and Tyson Chandler is still transforming what would otherwise be a terrible defensive team into a quite good one, on a nightly basis.
b) Big men have a more noticeable effect on the box score.
c) Bradley has a truly great defender as a teammate, who happens to be a big man and the anchor of the C's defense -- KG -- who takes the focus of outsiders away from his abilities.
d) Avery missed nearly half the season.
e) In any case, the smart money (i.e. people who do bball stats for a living) is on Larry Sanders as defender making the biggest impact in the league right now.
Even if we're just talking about the time since Bradley returned, I would put Sanders, Noah, and Chandler ahead of Bradley for the award. I'd probably recognize KG ahead of Bradley, too.
Avery is definitely the best defender at guard in the league, though, in my opinion.
Always annoys me when people say the person leading the league in blocks or steals is the best defender in the league. This just isn't the case. Just like Ibaka is not as good of a defender as KG is.
You give far too little credit to perimeter defenders. It's somewhat understandable given that it's become both hard to do legally and a lost art, but that's what makes Avery so special.
The reason he has to be All-NBA and considered a top defender is because of how much better he is relatively than other players who play his position. This is how we have to determine value.
Look, I'm not saying Avery shouldn't get more recognition.
I'm explaining why I think he's not getting it.
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And in any event I'm not upset that Stein would think that someone else is better. I'm just shocked that Bradley is not even mentioned. It seems completely nuts to me.
I completely agree with that. I'm just not surprised by it at all. Tony Allen hardly gets mentioned in these things, either. Big men just get the recognition when it comes to the discussion of DPOY.
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Who ranks ahead of Bradley on points per possession? Does anyone know?
Thanks much,
Smitty77
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I love how sefalosha got a mention and bradley didnt.
Paul Pierce made Thabo jump out of his shoes with a single headfake on several occasions. I wasnt impressed with his defense.
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a) Celtics have a worse record than the Pacers and the Bulls, two teams which over the course of the season have defended better. That gives the edge to Hibbert and Noah. The Knicks also have a better record and Tyson Chandler is still transforming what would otherwise be a terrible defensive team into a quite good one, on a nightly basis.
b) Big men have a more noticeable effect on the box score.
c) Bradley has a truly great defender as a teammate, who happens to be a big man and the anchor of the C's defense -- KG -- who takes the focus of outsiders away from his abilities.
d) Avery missed nearly half the season.
e) In any case, the smart money (i.e. people who do bball stats for a living) is on Larry Sanders as defender making the biggest impact in the league right now.
Even if we're just talking about the time since Bradley returned, I would put Sanders, Noah, and Chandler ahead of Bradley for the award. I'd probably recognize KG ahead of Bradley, too.
Avery is definitely the best defender at guard in the league, though, in my opinion.
Always annoys me when people say the person leading the league in blocks or steals is the best defender in the league. This just isn't the case. Just like Ibaka is not as good of a defender as KG is.
You give far too little credit to perimeter defenders. It's somewhat understandable given that it's become both hard to do legally and a lost art, but that's what makes Avery so special.
The reason he has to be All-NBA and considered a top defender is because of how much better he is relatively than other players who play his position. This is how we have to determine value.
Look, I'm not saying Avery shouldn't get more recognition.
I'm explaining why I think he's not getting it.
Fair enough. You're probably right then. To whoever votes on DPOY, stats are everything when in reality that's a lesser factor in defense.
By I don't understand why he would mention Thabo over Avery.
I love how sefalosha got a mention and bradley didnt.
Paul Pierce made Thabo jump out of his shoes with a single headfake on several occasions. I wasnt impressed with his defense.
I think he's kind of overrated at this point. He's nothing special. I've seen better defense out of Jeff Green this year for sure.