CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: connor on February 27, 2013, 04:43:19 AM
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To be perfectly honest I never thought there was any debate, the answer for me is a resounding YES. However, the longer I spend on these forums the more I get a sense that a very sizable chunk of the Celtics fan base (or at least this forum) don't like Doc as a coach.
So I've been giving it a lot of thought and still came up with the same answer: yes. Now I know Boston fans (and I've been guilty myself on a number of occasions) are notorious for overrating our own players, but I don't think this is the case.
Yes Doc has some of the tightest rotations in the league. No he does not let his young guys see any reasonable amount of court time unless he is forced. Yes everyone knows the last shot of the game is going to be Pierce from the elbow. And people definitely like to take shots at his lineup construction and minutes distribution.
But don't the results speak for themselves?
In the last 5 years we've won a championship, been a Perkins injury away from another, and took Miami to 7 games last season in the conference finals (where I thought we were overmatched but played beyond our means).
Maybe he is only suitable for a team full of vets, but the question is: is he a great coach?
I'd say he is most definitely in the top 5 in the league, at the VERY least top 10. He's being talked about as next in line to take over for Team USA. Yes he can be frustrating, but I don't know how you can challenge his credentials.
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I'd say he is.
Top 5 in the league right now, for sure.
Out of time-out plays. Motivating guys. He sure is up there.
But he's so stubborn in his ways, which frustrate a lot of fans, I am one of them.
My only qualms about his coaching is as I've said before, his rotations and his use of younger guys.
We would've never known about how good Bradley is if Ray didn't get hurt.
The same goes to Big Baby, if KG didn't get hurt in 09.
But I get that he is a great coach, and obviously the record and the accolades that he accumulated over the years are proof of that.
I just get frustrated with his over reliance on the veterans. That's it. But yes, to answer your question, he is a great coach.
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To even suggest he is a great Coach or to apply his name with other Great Coaches would be obscene. Doc is simply a 500 Coach. Exception of course when KG and Allen had fresh legs long ago. I think then KG was actually running the Team.
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No, but he is a good coach. Still better then most of the coaches. Great coaches are rare in my opinion, like popovich or sloan and ofcourse Red but doc is good. He has some great moments (which we exaggerate) and some bad moments (to which we do the same).
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Simple answer. Yep.
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No. He's a decent coach. Meaning he has about 50/50 good and bad moments balanced out by his personality and likeability from players which puts him at a 60/40 coach. Above average. He's stubborn with who he plays-that's bad coaching. His rotations and minutes are inconsistent-that's bad coaching. He doesn't draw up any new plays that would get other guys the ball-bad coaching. He's basically a facilitator of talent with some basic knowledge of x and o's. The c's success has been synonymous with the will and drive of the players not doc Rivers coaching. I do like doc and glad To have him as coach but when kg and pp leave I'd like him to go on ahead with them frankly.
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In the game today? Yes, top 3 probably.
All time? No. Good but not great.
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Great at managing comebacks and players, absollutely, great at x's and 0's not really. ( small ball)
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Great? No.
He's a good coach for a veteran team, though.
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Great coaches at the NBA level are few and far between.
Doc is a very good coach and we are lucky to have him.
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I like doc but absolutely not...Tom thibodeau was more important then him in our finals years...he's simply overrated..a decent veteran player coach...I think 80% of the leagues coaches could have done with this team what he's accomplished and better
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Simple answer. Yep.
NOPE.
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People still love to hate Doc huh?
Is he flawless? No. Few are close to that. To me he is great though.
Great at managing comebacks and players, absollutely, great at x's and 0's not really. ( small ball)
See you say "small ball" here... isn't that his personnel?
My issue is people will blame him for things that are out of his control.
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I say, yes, Doc is a great coach.
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I like doc but absolutely not...Tom thibodeau was more important then him in our finals years...he's simply overrated..a decent veteran player coach...I think 80% of the leagues coaches could have done with this team what he's accomplished and better
totally agree with this. good yes, saying he is great maybe pushing it too far.
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Great? No.
He's a good coach for a veteran team, though.
This. But has some very bad habits, and a lot of head scratching moments to go along with perceived favorites.
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i think doc is great with a veteran team and good with a younger/rebuilding team. so overall, i say "very good"
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NO
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I think very good is fair. His people skills are fantastic and he seems like a genuinely very good guy.
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I like doc but absolutely not...Tom thibodeau was more important then him in our finals years...he's simply overrated..a decent veteran player coach...I think 80% of the leagues coaches could have done with this team what he's accomplished and better
THIS ^
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To use Doc's word, he's a 'terrific' big picture guy... player relations, player management, recruiting, etc. Not to be dismissed out of hand.
I think there's a tendency to call him a bad Xs and Os coach, when in truth i'd say inconsistent would be a better way to describe him.
i don't have the big issue with his rotation or sub patterns like others.
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I think very good is fair. His people skills are fantastic and he seems like a genuinely very good guy.
And this is why he's widely accepted as "the best coach in the game"...he's friendly, and the media loves him....in reality kg could be a player/coach and we'd lose nothing
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I think very good is fair. His people skills are fantastic and he seems like a genuinely very good guy.
And this is why he's widely accepted as "the best coach in the game"...he's friendly, and the media loves him....in reality kg could be a player/coach and we'd lose nothing
He's widely accepted as the "best coach in the NBA" because he's probably the greatest personnel manager among active coaches in the NBA right now. Or in other words, his teams play hard and he seems to always be able to get the best out of his players. This has nothing to do with the media.
And he's, well, stable (remeber Obie resigning over trading, ahem, Tony Battie and Eric Williams?)
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No. Maybe in the top dozen coaches in the league at the moment which makes him above average but not great by any stretch. I expect he goes back to television in a few years.
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I think very good is fair. His people skills are fantastic and he seems like a genuinely very good guy.
And this is why he's widely accepted as "the best coach in the game"...he's friendly, and the media loves him....in reality kg could be a player/coach and we'd lose nothing
He's widely accepted as the "best coach in the NBA" because he's probably the greatest personnel manager among active coaches in the NBA right now. Or in other words, his teams play hard and he seems to always be able to get the best out of his players. This has nothing to do with the media.
And he's, well, stable (remeber Obie resigning over trading, ahem, Tony Battie and Eric Williams?)
I disagree adamantly that he gets the best out of his players...his relationship with kg has meant everything...kg gets the best out of his teammates, they play hard for kg as much as they do doc, and kg has been loyal to him as he is with moSt things. When we made the finals it was Tom thibodeaus defense...really little to do with doc, although the egregious 7 game series against inferior competition should be credited to him.
Who debates and states propaganda about "best coach in the game" People in the media...there's not a better interview or coach in the game when it comes to media.
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Let me see how the team plays when Rondo comes back then I will decide.
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When we made the finals it was Tom thibodeaus defense...really little to do with doc, although the egregious 7 game series against inferior competition should be credited to him.
Of course, as we've established already, when we win everyone but Doc is great, when we lose, it's all Doc's fault.
::)
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I think very good is fair. His people skills are fantastic and he seems like a genuinely very good guy.
And this is why he's widely accepted as "the best coach in the game"...he's friendly, and the media loves him....in reality kg could be a player/coach and we'd lose nothing
He's widely accepted as the "best coach in the NBA" because he's probably the greatest personnel manager among active coaches in the NBA right now. Or in other words, his teams play hard and he seems to always be able to get the best out of his players. This has nothing to do with the media.
Obviously it goes beyond that though. I don't know if I saw all of any single game on the recent road trip but I saw a lot of wild, undisciplined offense, ill-advised shots and poor shot clock usage from the other things. If nothing else makes people appreciate Doc watching other teams play should.
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I think very good is fair. His people skills are fantastic and he seems like a genuinely very good guy.
And this is why he's widely accepted as "the best coach in the game"...he's friendly, and the media loves him....in reality kg could be a player/coach and we'd lose nothing
He's widely accepted as the "best coach in the NBA" because he's probably the greatest personnel manager among active coaches in the NBA right now. Or in other words, his teams play hard and he seems to always be able to get the best out of his players. This has nothing to do with the media.
I think almost nobody would put Doc as a better coach than Popovich at the very least. Pop's #1 and everyone else is fighting for 2nd.
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I'm not sure I'd throw out the adjective "great" but Doc is a very good coach and probably the best player coach out there without letting the inmates run the asylum.
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I think the only coaches today I'd trade him for are Pop and Thibs.
He has his flaws, but he also has a ton of positives - one being that he has helped to create a definable culture about what it is to be a Celtic. This is a very valuable thing.
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Is it fair to say he is a "very good" coach who will end up having a great coaching career?
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Doc is clearly a good coach. We need to see what he does without KG and Pierce before you can call him a great coach. Before KG and Ray came to town, Doc's coaching career was closer to Sam Mitchell's than Popovich's, Jackson's or even Thib's.
Mike
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I think very good is fair. His people skills are fantastic and he seems like a genuinely very good guy.
And this is why he's widely accepted as "the best coach in the game"...he's friendly, and the media loves him....in reality kg could be a player/coach and we'd lose nothing
He's widely accepted as the "best coach in the NBA" because he's probably the greatest personnel manager among active coaches in the NBA right now. Or in other words, his teams play hard and he seems to always be able to get the best out of his players. This has nothing to do with the media.
And he's, well, stable (remeber Obie resigning over trading, ahem, Tony Battie and Eric Williams?)
Oh man, I disagree with this whole heartedly. I felt disgusted just reading that sentence.
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Is it fair to say he is a "very good" coach who will end up having a great coaching career?
No
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Nope. Doesn't know how to control his team to keep a 27-point lead nor leads in general. Calls timeout when he realizes it's too late. Rather keeps an oddly horrible player of the night over a streaky player on the court.
If this was a scale from 1 to 30 (1 being the best, 30 the worst), I'd say he's 15th. Definitely not a top 5 today. Out-coached by Eric Spoelstra in that Miami series last season.
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Doc is clearly a good coach. We need to see what he does without KG and Pierce before you can call him a great coach. Before KG and Ray came to town, Doc's coaching career was closer to Sam Mitchell's than Popovich's, Jackson's or even Thib's.
Mike
If that's the standard you need to see Popovich coach a few years without Duncan to see if he's a great coach or not.
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The only way to truly measure this is set up a control group where a bunch of different coaches coached the same exact team over a year (or a series of years) and see how the team. I wonder how Doc or Pop would do the with 90's Bulls - or Phil Jackson with the Nash-led Phoenix Suns.
It's totally subjective. You need great players to win. Vinny Del Negro went from one of the most reviled head coaches in the league to now a decent one. Did he magically improve his coaching or does he have one of the deepest rosters in the league?
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Doc in his 1st 7 years didn't average 500, in fact got fired once. He had a couple good years riding the backs of KG Pierce and Allen. One could argue he lost us a ring with them also. Personally I like Doc a lot. Very nice man but has no clue how to organize a team handed to him. Putting him in with the Great Ones only minimize's their successes. Everybody's just Great now!
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Doc in his 1st 7 years didn't average 500, in fact got fired once.
Um, you left out the part about him winning Coach of the Year.
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I don't think he's done anything that other coaches couldn't have done, and he's made a lot of mistakes and has leaned heavily on great assistants like Thibs and Ray and to a lesser extent Frank. But I think he's above average and at times has been very good. He totally dismantled Phil Jackson in the finals. However he just allows way too many shenanigans and doesn't lay down the law enough. The entire regular season of Sheed was a mail in -collect my check -type travesty and I think the players saw that
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I don't think Ainge has always given Doc the right personnel. Ainge seems to keep trying to add "instant offense" players to the bench. I think Doc's coaching style would be better served by adding defense-oriented players and letting Doc figure out the offense. You're not going to earn Doc's trust by scoring enough to outweigh your defensive liabilities.
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Doc is clearly a good coach. We need to see what he does without KG and Pierce before you can call him a great coach. Before KG and Ray came to town, Doc's coaching career was closer to Sam Mitchell's than Popovich's, Jackson's or even Thib's.
Mike
This is a ridiculous statement.
You don't even consider personnel in any of your logic. Because of course Pop had no talent and Doc had plenty before the big three arrived right? ::)
I don't think Ainge has always given Doc the right personnel. Ainge seems to keep trying to add "instant offense" players to the bench. I think Doc's coaching style would be better served by adding defense-oriented players and letting Doc figure out the offense. You're not going to earn Doc's trust by scoring enough to outweigh your defensive liabilities.
This is actually a very interesting point. Something worth considering for sure.
Danny doesn't want to pay for height but I wonder what a big, defensive minded team would look like being coached by Doc.
I don't think he's done anything that other coaches couldn't have done, and he's made a lot of mistakes and has leaned heavily on great assistants like Thibs and Ray and to a lesser extent Frank. But I think he's above average and at times has been very good. He totally dismantled Phil Jackson in the finals. However he just allows way too many shenanigans and doesn't lay down the law enough. The entire regular season of Sheed was a mail in -collect my check -type travesty and I think the players saw that
Rasheed Wallace did exactly what he's always done: but very talented but just about the most unprofessional player in the league. How he acts doesn't apply to other players or let them know they can "get something over". And Doc didn't manage to corral him like NO ONE has ever managed to corral him.
Sheed was a grown man. He is who he is, this isn't college and he isn't in his early 20's.
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I can't name many teams I'd switch coaches with. Always been a fan of Doc and I think he gets too much blame for some things.
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yes and no, I think Doc is a great coach when it comes to people management. He knows how to manage his players pretty well.
However, some of his strategies and tactics I kind of question. As Scotthow said, there's not many coach I would switch for Doc. The only name that pops up numerous times is Pop and that's probably it.
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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson. Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.
Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.
In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching. Sometimes, even more important.
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I don't like him.
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Danny doesn't want to pay for height but I wonder what a big, defensive minded team would look like being coached by Doc.
I don't really think it has to be that big (see, for example, Avery Bradley as a SG), but I think Doc would want guys who can defend multiple positions. You'd want to give him a PF/C who can defend comfortably against a stretch 4 and one of those three-and-D wings who can defend three positions.
Doc is very system-oriented on defense, so it's not enough to be a man-to-man defender. You need to be intelligent to play the way he wants. I suspect that it is better to fill out Doc's bench with smart players of average athleticism rather than athletic players who are stupid, hoping they improve mentally.
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Danny doesn't want to pay for height but I wonder what a big, defensive minded team would look like being coached by Doc.
I don't really think it has to be that big (see, for example, Avery Bradley as a SG), but I think Doc would want guys who can defend multiple positions. You'd want to give him a PF/C who can defend comfortably against a stretch 4 and one of those three-and-D wings who can defend three positions.
Doc is very system-oriented on defense, so it's not enough to be a man-to-man defender. You need to be intelligent to play the way he wants. I suspect that it is better to fill out Doc's bench with smart players of average athleticism rather than athletic players who are stupid, hoping they improve mentally.
True enough. Though I usually associate larger teams (in the post) with better defenses.
If you look for example at two players this year that were said to be ones Doc is in love with (where they were called crushes even) it was JJ Redick and Gordon Heyward. Both are solid athletes but more than anything they are just good all around, play hard, and are smart. So I agree with your point.
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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson. Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.
Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.
In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching. Sometimes, even more important.
nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.
Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.
many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title with, Phil essentially created mj the champion he wasn't just along for the ride like Mr rivers.
Great..he's likable...last title we won was because of Garnett spearheading thibodeaus defense not really much to do with doc at all, sorry
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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson. Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.
Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.
In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching. Sometimes, even more important.
nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.
Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.
many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title with, Phil essentially created mj the champion he wasn't just along for the ride like Mr rivers
He got MJ as he was improving, most players become less selfish as they get older. Also: obviously they get much better... not sure why you would ignore that. Jackson was getting just a BETTER Jordan.
And he also got the Bulls when they were just becoming better. Pippen was drafted in 87, so he got him a couple seasons in. And the personnel improved after that.
I think Jackson is great, but he has never had to really deal with lackluster talent. Doc has and he didn't do that well... but hey that's how it goes. At some point the coach is inseparable from their talent, which is why I find these rankings rather pointless.
In styles, Doc and Phil do have similarities in that they both are good at managing personalities, players, and egos. That's the point of comparison he was trying to make.
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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson. Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.
Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.
In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching. Sometimes, even more important.
nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.
Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.
many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title...Phil essentially created mj the champion
Thus why I said "it's not really fair to compare Doc to him (Phil)".
11>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1......Really all that needs to be said about that.
Mostly, what I meant was,they are similar in what they bring as coaches. Phil was never a great coach from and "x' & o's" standpoint. He had MJ, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, Gasol, etc.. He didn't need to be, he just needed to do what he did best, manage personalities.
This is probaly Doc's greatest attribute as well, thus the comparison.
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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson. Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.
Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.
In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching. Sometimes, even more important.
nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.
Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.
many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title with, Phil essentially created mj the champion he wasn't just along for the ride like Mr rivers
He got MJ as he was improving, most players become less selfish as they get older. Also: obviously they get much better... not sure why you would ignore that. Jackson was getting just a BETTER Jordan.
And he also got the Bulls when they were just becoming better. Pippen was drafted in 87, so he got him a couple seasons in. And the personnel improved after that.
I think Jackson is great, but he has never had to really deal with lackluster talent. Doc has and he didn't do that well... but hey that's how it goes. At some point the coach is inseparable from their talent, which is why I find these rankings rather pointless.
In styles, Doc and Phil do have similarities in how they try to manage personalities. That's the comparison.
Agreed on the personalities aspect and I think that was the gist of what KG Knee's post was about.
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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson. Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.
Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.
In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching. Sometimes, even more important.
nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.
Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.
many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title with, Phil essentially created mj the champion he wasn't just along for the ride like Mr rivers.
Great..he's likable...last title we won was because of Garnett spearheading thibodeaus defense not really much to do with doc at all, sorry
I think you better re-check your sources, nobody was saying MJ was a player you could never win a title with, and Phil certainly didn't "create" him. That's just ridiculous.
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naw..... he is not a coaching legion....at least yet.........
Celtics could do worse though..........Doc is a proven good coach.......who can win with top players.....despite his sometimes bizarre rotations.
Doc compares to Jackson in so much as he has the players respect, and NBA players DO like his coaching style and way it seems.
to be considered great , adding another 3 or 4 banners during his tenure. and basically retiring as a Celtic would help.
without CP3 or Lebron greatness ......it's a hard road to the top
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I don't think Ainge has always given Doc the right personnel. Ainge seems to keep trying to add "instant offense" players to the bench. I think Doc's coaching style would be better served by adding defense-oriented players and letting Doc figure out the offense. You're not going to earn Doc's trust by scoring enough to outweigh your defensive liabilities.
I agree with this and this is also my problem with Doc.
Doc has the ability to get a lot out of less talented players. Ryan Hollins. Greg Steimsa, Tony Allen, Perk, etc. are shells of their former selves now. Does that have a lot to do with usage and age? One could argue that, but I think it's because Doc knows how to use these guys who have limited talent in big areas. He has no clue what to do with these guys who have multiple talents and how to use them (see JG, Lee, Barbosa before RR went down).
Danny is obviously all for the youth movement and I think it's necessary. With guys like Lebron, KD, Irving, PG, Steph Curry all taking over, it's tough to beat that with veterans and less talented people. You almost have to fight fire with fire.
Doc is a veterans coach. Is he a good coach? Sure. A great? nawl. My issue with Doc is his stubborness to join the youth movement. I think he still thinks Paul can still be that guy and KG can just because. I think they have flashes, but they are not what they used to be. So in that, he needs to start developing some of the talent on the team for the future, if he cares.
The thing I like about Pop is he has no problem going with the hot hand, no problem letting the young guys play and learn and he has no problem doing what's right for the team or the game. Sometimes it feels like Doc continues to ride KG and Paul because they're vets and no matter how much they clank it, he'd rather pass it to PP whos 2/10 for the night than JG who's 6/8 for the night. That's my issue.
Let's embrace the youth movement. Let's all recognize KG and PP shouldn't be carrying teams every quarter in their older age.
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Doc is a veterans coach. Is he a good coach? Sure. A great? nawl. My issue with Doc is his stubborness to join the youth movement. I think he still thinks Paul can still be that guy and KG can just because. I think they have flashes, but they are not what they used to be. So in that, he needs to start developing some of the talent on the team for the future, if he cares.
The thing I like about Pop is he has no problem going with the hot hand, no problem letting the young guys play and learn and he has no problem doing what's right for the team or the game. Sometimes it feels like Doc continues to ride KG and Paul because they're vets and no matter how much they clank it, he'd rather pass it to PP whos 2/10 for the night than JG who's 6/8 for the night. That's my issue.
It's funny, because Popovich has had a reputation among Spurs fans of preferring veterans and not playing rookies.
I don't think Doc absolutely refuses to play rookies, but he's not going to play them for the sake of playing them. I think Doc is more likely to play young guys who prioritize defense over offense. I suspect that as a guy who clings to control of the team so strongly that Kevin Garnett has compared the Celtics to Cuba, Doc probably makes some effort to make sure younger players play by his rules. I suspect that young players whose lack of playing time dismays some in this forum were in Doc's doghouse because they weren't intelligent enough to understand how to do it Doc's way.
I'd like for Doc to put Pierce on the same minutes limitation that he has KG on and go from there.
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Doc is not a great coach. The term great is used to loosely with players and coaches. Doc is a good coach that has an excellent way of dealing with veterans. In my opinion, he is too predictable in his past calling and his rotations. Additionally, I don't think he affairs his style to the talent he has
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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team. He doesn't get the best out of his players, his rotations blow, he relies too heavily on the vets, he thought playing terry like he was ray allen was a great idea. He relies on pierce ISO to win every game that comes down to the last shot even tho it works like 20-30 percent of the time.
Sully and bass playing together was another doc rivers special, the last 3 years his teams have been extremely inconsistent, it took our best player to go down to start playing better *Something that should NEVER happen*. I could go on and on, doc is so overrated its hysterical. Nothing he has done has made me say to myself wow, doc is a GREAT COACH. Hes *good* at BEST and even that's pushing it in my opinion. Watching this guy coach sometimes i honestly think most of us on here would do better just by using common sense alone.
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I don't think Ainge has always given Doc the right personnel. Ainge seems to keep trying to add "instant offense" players to the bench. I think Doc's coaching style would be better served by adding defense-oriented players and letting Doc figure out the offense. You're not going to earn Doc's trust by scoring enough to outweigh your defensive liabilities.
You're right, he needs an All Star Team.
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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team. He doesn't get the best out of his players, his rotations blow, he relies too heavily on the vets, he thought playing terry like he was ray allen was a great idea. He relies on pierce ISO to win every game that comes down to the last shot even tho it works like 20-30 percent of the time.
Sully and bass playing together was another doc rivers special, the last 3 years his teams have been extremely inconsistent, it took our best player to go down to start playing better *Something that should NEVER happen*. I could go on and on, doc is so overrated its hysterical. Nothing he has done has made me say to myself wow, doc is a GREAT COACH. Hes *good* at BEST and even that's pushing it in my opinion. Watching this guy coach sometimes i honestly think most of us on here would do better just by using common sense alone.
not to mention #2 on the list is something you have no clue about, #3 is JUST a rumor and nothing came to fruition (and probably won't coming up).
I think #4 is the a prime example of how we overrate Doc. No other coach has to coach diff personalities? there are coaches who have two completely different teams between seasons. get out.
and I was going to add to mine, I think Doc is good along with the likes of frickin Doug Collins, Mike Woodson, Frank Vogel.
my fav coach this year aside from Pop is Thibs. He's got a winning team without their star player with a bunch of guys you wouldn't expect things from. You expect big things from a KG and PP and I think with a Thibs we'd be a top 4 seed right now. With a Pop we'd be #1 seed with multiple championships.
-
Doc in his 1st 7 years didn't average 500, in fact got fired once.
Um, you left out the part about him winning Coach of the Year.
Ever see the Oscar winners?
-
I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team. He doesn't get the best out of his players, his rotations blow, he relies too heavily on the vets, he thought playing terry like he was ray allen was a great idea. He relies on pierce ISO to win every game that comes down to the last shot even tho it works like 20-30 percent of the time.
Sully and bass playing together was another doc rivers special, the last 3 years his teams have been extremely inconsistent, it took our best player to go down to start playing better *Something that should NEVER happen*. I could go on and on, doc is so overrated its hysterical. Nothing he has done has made me say to myself wow, doc is a GREAT COACH. Hes *good* at BEST and even that's pushing it in my opinion. Watching this guy coach sometimes i honestly think most of us on here would do better just by using common sense alone.
Well...you are obviously set on Doc being what you stated, so I'll leave it at that.
But as a man who went toe to toe with one of the greatest Basketball minds out there in Phil Jackson in 07-08 (and was commented on during parts of the series as coaching VERY WELL head-to-head vs Phil) - I still believe that Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
I cannot convince you otherwise, and you can't convince me otherwise.
Let's just shake hands and agree to disagree.
-
Is it fair to say he is a "very good" coach who will end up having a great coaching career?
No
and here I thought I was being fair
-
Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson. Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.
Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.
In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching. Sometimes, even more important.
nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.
Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.
many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title with, Phil essentially created mj the champion he wasn't just along for the ride like Mr rivers.
Great..he's likable...last title we won was because of Garnett spearheading thibodeaus defense not really much to do with doc at all, sorry
I think you better re-check your sources, nobody was saying MJ was a player you could never win a title with, and Phil certainly didn't "create" him. That's just ridiculous.
He was every bit the individual player putting up stats and more so without Phil...Phil helped make him a team leader, a team player and a champion.
read the "Jordan rules". There was absolutely speculation and question whether you could win a title with Michael Jordan before Phil
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Coaching is a tricky subject. Doc obviously is great at some things, because if he wasn't, the team would suck.
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I don't think he is. I've seen little evidence of it. Doug Collins looks like one...HE gats a LOT out of a little.....O'Brien too, Popovich.....If we traded KG, you would see we have only a guy in a suit that has been around the league for a while. Pulling the hot hand out of the game, sitting rebounders, overplaying players..
-
I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.
Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.
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No.
IMO, Greg Popovich is the only "great" coach in the league right now. Thibs is also looking like a great coach early in his head coaching career. You can do a lot worse than Doc, but you can also do better. I also consider guys like Adelman, and Carlisle better. IMO, Doc is a great at drawing plays and inspiring faith in his players. He' not too impressive on the other stuff.
He's arguably top 5.
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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.
Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.
But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
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For right now, for today's game, he's great because he can lure people to your team on top of his results.
All time, he's good. Like Rudy T good. Like Bill Fitch good. Like Red Holzman good.
-
I think we should do a series of 29 polls, asking "Is Doc better than..." for every other current NBA coach.
-
But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved. Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?
If anything, I'd say they overachieved. This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.
I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.
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Doc is clearly a good coach. We need to see what he does without KG and Pierce before you can call him a great coach. Before KG and Ray came to town, Doc's coaching career was closer to Sam Mitchell's than Popovich's, Jackson's or even Thib's.
Mike
This is a ridiculous statement.
You don't even consider personnel in any of your logic. Because of course Pop had no talent and Doc had plenty before the big three arrived right? ::)
I don't think Ainge has always given Doc the right personnel. Ainge seems to keep trying to add "instant offense" players to the bench. I think Doc's coaching style would be better served by adding defense-oriented players and letting Doc figure out the offense. You're not going to earn Doc's trust by scoring enough to outweigh your defensive liabilities.
This is actually a very interesting point. Something worth considering for sure.
Danny doesn't want to pay for height but I wonder what a big, defensive minded team would look like being coached by Doc.
I don't think he's done anything that other coaches couldn't have done, and he's made a lot of mistakes and has leaned heavily on great assistants like Thibs and Ray and to a lesser extent Frank. But I think he's above average and at times has been very good. He totally dismantled Phil Jackson in the finals. However he just allows way too many shenanigans and doesn't lay down the law enough. The entire regular season of Sheed was a mail in -collect my check -type travesty and I think the players saw that
Rasheed Wallace did exactly what he's always done: but very talented but just about the most unprofessional player in the league. How he acts doesn't apply to other players or let them know they can "get something over". And Doc didn't manage to corral him like NO ONE has ever managed to corral him.
Sheed was a grown man. He is who he is, this isn't college and he isn't in his early 20's.
So you think that was the type of season the Celts were signing up for and expecting? You don't think it had any effect on Glen Davis? Granted I think Glen would have been selfish anyway in a contract year, but still
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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved. Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?
If anything, I'd say they overachieved. This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.
I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.
Before rondo went down yes this years team was under achieving greatly. Unless you really felt we were a 20-23 team. It took our best player to go down to play better but we aren't better talent wise. It just shows how overrated doc is that he couldn't make it work before rondo went down.........As for the last sentence, lol, stop.
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It seems this topic is kind of polarizing. I do not think Doc is awful by any means but I do not think he is any sort of basketball genius even back to his days as a player. If he was the Hawks may have been dangerous with the other pieces they had.
I think Doc is middle of the road vs the other Celtics coaches we have had since 1979.
His bias towards veterans is just sickening...giving Michael Finley some burn when there was obviously a fork sticking out his back is just one painfull example. It is kind of hard for a bench player to be productive without a consistent chance to play because some washed up veteran has been taking your minutes for several weeks during the stretch run.
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"Is Doc a great coach?"
No
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It seems this topic is kind of polarizing.
The question is very broad, so there's plenty of room to argue. I think Doc is a strong motivator and excellent team builder. Those two things are critically important. I think he is good at coaching offensive and defensive schemes. And I appreciate that he's very accountable personally, and his teams have always been accountable.
I wonder about his game planning sometimes. That's hard to judge. I personally find it frustrating when people pick at little substitution pattern decisions, but I do have a hunch that he can over-think it sometimes. I think that on the whole the Celtics have a fairly mature attitude about officiating, and it seems as if Doc has said "leave that to me." That said, I think he could benefit from a "less is more" approach with the stripes. The incessant riding - right, wrong, and indifferent - just has to backfire at some point, and I think it does now and again.
-
I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.
Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.
But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
Ha did you watch our depleted team last year come within one game of beating Miami? Who went on to smoke OKC? Or do you just pick and choose so you can prove that Doc sucks?
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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
The 08 team was the only team in modern nba history that won a title the same year that they added 2 of their top 3 scorers. Miami couldn't pull it off even though their top 3 were better than ours in 2008. Scoff at the tough playoff series if you want, what the Celts did that year was much more of an achievement than you realize. And, considering injuries, the Celts have represented themselves quite well since 2008, it's silly to claim that they've played below their talent level.
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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved. Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?
If anything, I'd say they overachieved. This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.
I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.
Before rondo went down yes this years team was under achieving greatly. Unless you really felt we were a 20-23 team. It took our best player to go down to play better but we aren't better talent wise. It just shows how overrated doc is that he couldn't make it work before rondo went down.........As for the last sentence, lol, stop.
The team would have been fine. The team was taking a while to come together but they'd have been ready for the playoffs, that's really what Doc's coaching for. We went to the finals in 2010, that's more important than the 27-27 finish to the regular season. We went to the ECF last year, that's more important than their 15-17 start. Don't read too much into our record in January.
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Doc is very comparable to Phil Jackson. Obviously, Phil had a legendary career, so it's not really fair to compare Doc to him, but there are many similarities.
Like Phil, Doc is an decent "x's & o's" coach, but is best known for is unique ability to effectively manage high-maintenance personalities/ego's.
In the NBA, people skills are every bit as important as actual coaching. Sometimes, even more important.
nice effort to compare him to a coaching legend...but just no....not on his level.
Idk it's like saying the bobcats history is comparable to the Celtics.
many think Phil is overrated because he had Jordan...but the last I checked before he had Phil he was known as a selfish player you could never win a title with, Phil essentially created mj the champion he wasn't just along for the ride like Mr rivers.
Great..he's likable...last title we won was because of Garnett spearheading thibodeaus defense not really much to do with doc at all, sorry
I think you better re-check your sources, nobody was saying MJ was a player you could never win a title with, and Phil certainly didn't "create" him. That's just ridiculous.
He was every bit the individual player putting up stats and more so without Phil...Phil helped make him a team leader, a team player and a champion.
read the "Jordan rules". There was absolutely speculation and question whether you could win a title with Michael Jordan before Phil
Phil happened onto the scene where he was coaching the best player in the league and the dominant players in the league over the previous 10 years or so were breaking down. The league was wide open at the time without any great teams/players to challenge the Bulls. Jordan did mature as a player. So did LeBron recently. That wasn't because of Spoelstra, it would have happened regardless.
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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.
Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.
But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
Ha did you watch our depleted team last year come within one game of beating Miami? Who went on to smoke OKC? Or do you just pick and choose so you can prove that Doc sucks?
What you just said I have debunked so many times its getting tiring. You sit there and try to accuse me of picking and choosing yet you CHOOSE to IGNORE the fact that miami also had injuries and they had one injury that was more important than any injury we had *CHRIS BOSH*. You also ignore the fact that the toughest matchup we would have had to face we didn't because rose got hurt.
If nobody gets hurt there's a very good chance we never make it out the second round. If you're going to use the "The celtics were banged up" route then use it for everybody else too. Also them beating OKC has nothing to do with our series. The NBA is all about matchups. Please tell me you know this by now.
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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved. Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?
If anything, I'd say they overachieved. This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.
I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.
Before rondo went down yes this years team was under achieving greatly. Unless you really felt we were a 20-23 team. It took our best player to go down to play better but we aren't better talent wise. It just shows how overrated doc is that he couldn't make it work before rondo went down.........As for the last sentence, lol, stop.
The team would have been fine. The team was taking a while to come together but they'd have been ready for the playoffs, that's really what Doc's coaching for. We went to the finals in 2010, that's more important than the 27-27 finish to the regular season. We went to the ECF last year, that's more important than their 15-17 start. Don't read too much into our record in January.
You don't know that. What happend in the past to other teams has nothing to do with what would have happend with this team. I'm going by what actually happend and what actually happend is we were 20-23 and underachieving greatly.
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But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
Please provide one clear example of a team Doc has coached that underachieved. Surely you aren't saying any of the recent Celtics' seasons fit the bill?
If anything, I'd say they overachieved. This team has been counted out by just about everybody over the last few years, but we're always there at the end with just as good of a chance as anyone.
I'm here to say, point blank, you're wrong.
Before rondo went down yes this years team was under achieving greatly. Unless you really felt we were a 20-23 team. It took our best player to go down to play better but we aren't better talent wise. It just shows how overrated doc is that he couldn't make it work before rondo went down.........As for the last sentence, lol, stop.
The team would have been fine. The team was taking a while to come together but they'd have been ready for the playoffs, that's really what Doc's coaching for. We went to the finals in 2010, that's more important than the 27-27 finish to the regular season. We went to the ECF last year, that's more important than their 15-17 start. Don't read too much into our record in January.
You don't know that. What happend in the past to other teams has nothing to do with what would have happend with this team. I'm going by what actually happend and what actually happend is we were 20-23 and underachieving greatly.
I wasn't talking about what happened in the past to other teams, I was talking about what happened in the past to these Celts.
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OK let's hang a banner for him. Get it over with before rabid Celtic fans crash. They need some fresh meat because this team as presently constructed is over achieving without Rondo and under achieving with him. It has to be Doc and his wizardly way of Coaching. I don't know why this is an issue. Just look at Doc's contribution as a Coach and show me where a Team actually got better because of himself. Facts are facts. Ignore them if you will to.
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OK let's hang a banner for him. Get it over with before rabid Celtic fans crash. They need some fresh meat because this team as presently constructed is over achieving without Rondo and under achieving with him. It has to be Doc and his wizardly way of Coaching. I don't know why this is an issue. Just look at Doc's contribution as a Coach and show me where a Team actually got better because of himself. Facts are facts. Ignore them if you will to.
Facts are facts. All you have is some opinions.
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I'd say yes, absolutely Glenn Doc Rivers is a great coach. Here's why:
1. One Banner and One Finals appearance since 07-08.
2. Other "Probable" Finals appearances and Banner
opportunities were thwarted by none other than injuries
(Perk, KG, Rondo)....
3. If we remember to just last summer - Doc Rivers was
heavily rumored to be a candidate to coach the US Men's
Olympic team in the future - along with Greg Popovich -
another Great coach.
4. Someone name me another coach or team that has had to
deal with the revolving door of personalities...egos...
talents...that have come through BOS over the years:
Marbury (08-09). The Blog, if I remember, almost
imploded at mention of Stephon Marbury in Green. It
happened, and the man performed admirably...even doing
exactly what Doc said he would do "Marbury will help us
win a game in the post-season (and he did just that).
No other team would touch him, but he did well in BOS.
Shaq. Doc got the last bit of good health out of the Big
Shamrock right before the Big Fella just couldn't play
anymore - and BOS looked unbeatable with Shaq....and Doc
made it work.
Not to mention a constantly changing bench (PJ Brown, Posey, TA, Big Baby, JO, Sheed, Nate, etc, etc...
Doc's dealt with it all, and at the same time has kept BOS
as a contender for the last few years. Plus, he's done an OUTSTANDING job monitoring our older player's minutes (KG, especially).
For these and other reasons I'm sure have been mentioned here already, Glenn Doc Rivers is a Great Coach.
Only thing on that list that stands out is one championship and another finals appearance. Something spoelstra has done in his first two years since his big 3 formed. Doc is overrated. Most coaches in the league could have won with the 07-08 team.
Obviously Spoelstra wouldn't have done as much in his first two years of LeBron had the same knee injury KG did. And most coaches could win with the rosters from the Spurs, Lakers, Bulls or Heat teams as well. A list of coaches clearly better than Doc should include coaches whose team's results exceeded their talent level, not teams that won when they had the best players.
But wait........docs teams has never exceeded their talent level.......they have played well below it tho...Doc has only won when he clearly had a superior team and even THEN they almost lost TWICE in the playoffs to teams no where near as good lol. I'm not here to say who is better than doc and who isn't. I'm here to say doc is overrated as hell, point blank period.
Ha did you watch our depleted team last year come within one game of beating Miami? Who went on to smoke OKC? Or do you just pick and choose so you can prove that Doc sucks?
What you just said I have debunked so many times its getting tiring. You sit there and try to accuse me of picking and choosing yet you CHOOSE to IGNORE the fact that miami also had injuries and they had one injury that was more important than any injury we had *CHRIS BOSH*. You also ignore the fact that the toughest matchup we would have had to face we didn't because rose got hurt.
If nobody gets hurt there's a very good chance we never make it out the second round. If you're going to use the "The celtics were banged up" route then use it for everybody else too. Also them beating OKC has nothing to do with our series. The NBA is all about matchups. Please tell me you know this by now.
Wow. I'm not picking and choosing anything, Miami's team with injury was better than our team with injury, Miami's team without injury was better than our team without injury.
And matchups be [dang]ed, seeing a team everyone things is a powerhouse get steamrolled by Miami shows that we put up a great fight.
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i do think is a much better playoff series coach than regular season
and i think that's because he plays strictly from matchups. and then of course, you play them more than once, you start to understand certain things
and whle we overachieved last year, i think, for a team with a broken PP, Ray, Steamer...we were close to ECF. I mean...we won 3.5 quarters of game 6. then something happened...I have no clue what. It just stopped.
but my point was even tho that happened, we went 6 games with a wack ATL and 7 with the sixers. smh.
i'd be a tinch happier if he utilized the talent before we had an opp to go sub500. i don't think team should've ever been sub 500 unless we lost our first game. we were, as constructed, easily 2 or 3...when Rondo goes down, 3-5. no reason we should be fighting for #7 but we are.
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i do think is a much better playoff series coach than regular season
and i think that's because he plays strictly from matchups. and then of course, you play them more than once, you start to understand certain things
and whle we overachieved last year, i think, for a team with a broken PP, Ray, Steamer...we were close to ECF. I mean...we won 3.5 quarters of game 6. then something happened...I have no clue what. It just stopped.
but my point was even tho that happened, we went 6 games with a wack ATL and 7 with the sixers. smh.
i'd be a tinch happier if he utilized the talent before we had an opp to go sub500. i don't think team should've ever been sub 500 unless we lost our first game. we were, as constructed, easily 2 or 3...when Rondo goes down, 3-5. no reason we should be fighting for #7 but we are.
There were various reasons that we were struggling (injuries, people missing rotations on defense, too many players with inconsistent roles/minutes) that would have eventually gone away, in fact most of them have already. Doc was coaching to get the team ready for the playoffs, not necessarily to win as many games as possible during the season.
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i do think is a much better playoff series coach than regular season
and i think that's because he plays strictly from matchups. and then of course, you play them more than once, you start to understand certain things
and whle we overachieved last year, i think, for a team with a broken PP, Ray, Steamer...we were close to ECF. I mean...we won 3.5 quarters of game 6. then something happened...I have no clue what. It just stopped.
but my point was even tho that happened, we went 6 games with a wack ATL and 7 with the sixers. smh.
i'd be a tinch happier if he utilized the talent before we had an opp to go sub500. i don't think team should've ever been sub 500 unless we lost our first game. we were, as constructed, easily 2 or 3...when Rondo goes down, 3-5. no reason we should be fighting for #7 but we are.
There were various reasons that we were struggling (injuries, people missing rotations on defense, too many players with inconsistent roles/minutes) that would have eventually gone away, in fact most of them have already. Doc was coaching to get the team ready for the playoffs, not necessarily to win as many games as possible during the season.
i still don't see us being that seed.
i wonder what we would rank with our record since january
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Yes he is
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i do think is a much better playoff series coach than regular season
and i think that's because he plays strictly from matchups. and then of course, you play them more than once, you start to understand certain things
and whle we overachieved last year, i think, for a team with a broken PP, Ray, Steamer...we were close to ECF. I mean...we won 3.5 quarters of game 6. then something happened...I have no clue what. It just stopped.
but my point was even tho that happened, we went 6 games with a wack ATL and 7 with the sixers. smh.
i'd be a tinch happier if he utilized the talent before we had an opp to go sub500. i don't think team should've ever been sub 500 unless we lost our first game. we were, as constructed, easily 2 or 3...when Rondo goes down, 3-5. no reason we should be fighting for #7 but we are.
There were various reasons that we were struggling (injuries, people missing rotations on defense, too many players with inconsistent roles/minutes) that would have eventually gone away, in fact most of them have already. Doc was coaching to get the team ready for the playoffs, not necessarily to win as many games as possible during the season.
i still don't see us being that seed.
i wonder what we would rank with our record since january
looked it up
not sure how relevant it is, just wanted to share
(as of 2/27)
Heat 20-6 (.769)
Pacers 18-8 (.692)
Nets 18-9 (.667)
Celtics 16-11 (.592)
Bulls 16-12 (.571)
Knicks 13-11 (.541)
Hawks 14-13 (.518)
Wizards 14-14 (.500)
Cavs 13-13 (.500)
Bucks 12-15 (.444)
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So can we give Doc credit for a smart change up last night in the Warriors game with the zone? Or was that Thibs again somehow?