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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: TheFlex on February 24, 2013, 03:26:57 PM

Title: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: TheFlex on February 24, 2013, 03:26:57 PM
What realistic player(s) or package(s) would you deal Rondo for? Quick specification: I think Paul George is a good enough caliber player, with enough upside, to trade Rajon Rondo for. However, then Jeff Green comes into play. Do you trade him or play him at PF? Or do you play George at SG? If you do trade him, do the Pacers have enough to give back for both Green and Rondo in addition to George or would you have to bring in a third team? If you can't find a good deal for the two at all, and you don't want to play Green at PF or George at SG, then Paul George goes out the window as a possible exchange.

Here are my top three returns:

1) Rondo/JG/Bradley for CP3/Grant Hill; Rondo, in his current form, is far from enough to pry CP3 from LAC. However, Paul is a free agent, which poses risks for them. Rondo has a very affordable contract, which comes into play. The Jeff Green/Grant Hill swap is a monstrous win for LAC. Lastly, it looks to me like Eric Bledsoe is on the fringe of blowing up and therefore is a threat to leave because of finances. I would think Danny could coax them to take a poor man's Bledsoe in Bradley, giving them a core of Rondo/Bradley/Jeff Green/Blake/D. Jordan. I think in a few years they could certainly win a title with that, and they get to keep their picks, something that has become of huge value with today's CBA. We then get to start fresh with Chris Paul as our PG, shedding actual cap in Rondo/JG as well as a future cap hit in Bradley.

2) Rondo/JG/C. Lee for D. Howard/Earl Clark/Jodie Meeks.

3) Rondo for Greg Monroe/R. Stuckey/1st round pick; This one is more controversial. Danny said he wanted young players and picks for Rondo. This is an option that would be utilized if Pierce and Garnett quickly retire and Ainge decides to completely blow it up. If he doesn't retire, you'd trade the JET as well. Following this deal you'd have a young, solid backcourt, an excellent prospect in Monroe as well as a pretty good pick in Detroit's first rounder.

Discuss!
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: go11celtics on February 24, 2013, 03:31:45 PM
Trade deadline passed. Can't we put these threads on hold till at least the summer?
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: lightspeed5 on February 24, 2013, 03:35:30 PM
noone. you build around him to maximize his potential.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 24, 2013, 03:37:37 PM
Taking our current roster into consideration, at a quick glance I'd go after someone like Al Jefferson or Al Horford, with the assumption that we're in win now mode, and KG returns next year.

Give me some Al!
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 24, 2013, 03:38:40 PM
What realistic player(s) or package(s) would you deal Rondo for?

Not going to discuss specific players I want, but unless Rondo comes back from his injury and shows that he has lost it, I probably wouldn't consider trading him unless I get back a player I believe will be an All-Star sometime in the next three seasons.

In practice, that probably means the only realistic deal is as part of a sign-and-trade for a free agent who wants to leave his former team.  Chris Paul is pretty much assumed to be staying with the Clippers and all signs point to Dwight Howard being the kind of guy who doesn't want to leave that much money on the table to go somewhere other than the Lakers.

Still, my preference would be to hold off on any talk of trading Rondo until he actually plays some NBA games again.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 24, 2013, 03:39:47 PM
Trade deadline passed. Can't we put these threads on hold till at least the summer?

Yeah. It's too late anyways.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: kgainez on February 24, 2013, 03:44:11 PM
u want to deal Rondo AND Jeff AND Bradley?
um...I'll pass

You want to trade the future for what?

I wouldn't trade RR.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: CoachBo on February 24, 2013, 03:45:26 PM
A quality young big, such as Cousins. There are several who meet that criteria.

I would also work hard once Rondo's health is confirmed to move him. Can't rebuild successfully around his style of play.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: TheFlex on February 24, 2013, 03:49:27 PM
Trade deadline passed. Can't we put these threads on hold till at least the summer?

Yeah. It's too late anyways.

What realistic player(s) or package(s) would you deal Rondo for?
Still, my preference would be to hold off on any talk of trading Rondo until he actually plays some NBA games again.

I think you guys are missing the point of the thread. I'm not suggesting we trade Rondo today, it could be this offseason, during next season, or next offseason. Also, assuming that we're in a win-now state of mind isn't necessarily the point either. There are some trades that I mentioned that allow us to still contend and there are others that blow up the team. The point is that DA seems to desire trading Rondo, and barring speculation of who will become stars and adequate trade partners within the next couple of years (for example saying we should trade him for a guy with tons of upside but no tangible game like Moe Harkless would be out of the question), I figured it would be interesting to see what a decent return would be in the eyes of Cs fans.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 24, 2013, 03:50:37 PM
A quality young big, such as Cousins. There are several who meet that criteria.

I would also work hard once Rondo's health is confirmed to move him. Can't rebuild successfully around his style of play.

It seems to me that we've already started rebuilding around his style of play.  I can't wait to see him get back and get a chance to be the leader of an up-tempo style team. 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Who on February 24, 2013, 03:54:56 PM
A top ten player or someone who has the potential to be a top ten player someday.

Someone who is youngish. Under 30. Preferably 27 or under.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ronaldo943 on February 24, 2013, 03:56:22 PM
Andre Drummond and Knight is what i would want for him
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Fafnir on February 24, 2013, 04:04:08 PM
A top ten player or someone who has the potential to be a top ten player someday.

Someone who is youngish. Under 30. Preferably 27 or under.
Yup, you have to get either an old MVP/all-nba caliber guy. (KG when we got him Or a young guy who can get there.

The Nick Van Excel + High pick (which was to be CP3) for Paul Pierce type trade.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: dasani on February 24, 2013, 04:12:16 PM
Ainge seems to have a ridiculously high price tag for Rondo (even when injured)so this prevents any realistic moves in my opinion. Most teams that would want Rondo, would have stars that he would play along with. Most FOs don't see Rondo as the first option type. So realistically I see Rondo (and something other pieces) for Gasol (and maybe for some other piece) as a realistic option. You have to really figure how Rondo would fit into the other team, that's where the value lies.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LB3533 on February 24, 2013, 04:16:01 PM
Do not trade Rondo.

You are crazy if you trade him. The roster we have right now is designed for Rondo to run.

We are moving away from the halfcourt skill set of the Big 3 era into a more uptempo style of offense.

Rondo can do both, but he can't not the afore mentioned with 3 aging (now 2) skilled players.

Trading Rondo now would be a huge mistake.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 24, 2013, 04:16:33 PM
A top ten player or someone who has the potential to be a top ten player someday.

Someone who is youngish. Under 30. Preferably 27 or under.

So, you mean for a different 27 or under top ten player?  Why not just keep the one we have?
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 24, 2013, 04:23:01 PM
Ainge seems to have a ridiculously high price tag for Rondo (even when injured)so this prevents any realistic moves in my opinion.

Or, Ainge has a realistic price tag and all realistic moves fail to bring back appropriate value.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: dasani on February 24, 2013, 04:28:42 PM
Ainge seems to have a ridiculously high price tag for Rondo (even when injured)so this prevents any realistic moves in my opinion.

Or, Ainge has a realistic price tag and all realistic moves fail to bring back appropriate value.
I dunno, but asking for Dwight Howard when the your PG is injured is kinda ridiculous. Even if Rondo is healthy, most don't trade bigs for small. Doesn't really makes sense for the Lakers(and I despise them) at all in my opinion. Also he wanted a Melo (the Denver-NY trade) type of haul. Again that is quite ridiculous if Rondo is injured and questionable for next season. Most trades teams would do for Rondo, Ainge seems to scoff at.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 24, 2013, 04:30:51 PM
A quality young big, such as Cousins. There are several who meet that criteria.

I would also work hard once Rondo's health is confirmed to move him. Can't rebuild successfully around his style of play.

  Yes, the lack of success the team's had with Rondo's style of play over the last 3 years (game 7 of the finals and game 7 of the ecf when he was healthy) is alarming.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: TheFlex on February 24, 2013, 04:35:59 PM
Do not trade Rondo.

You are crazy if you trade him. The roster we have right now is designed for Rondo to run.

We are moving away from the halfcourt skill set of the Big 3 era into a more uptempo style of offense.

Rondo can do both, but he can't not the afore mentioned with 3 aging (now 2) skilled players.

Trading Rondo now would be a huge mistake.

It depends if Rondo "changes" so to speak. Danny Ainge had a pretty good point at the beginning of the year; he said that a big problem with the team's stagnating offense was that the players completely depended on Rondo. That could be Doc's system, Rondo's presence or a little of both. He said when Jeff Green used to rip down rebounds for example, he'd immediately look for Rondo instead of pushing it up. He offered a suggestion: for Rondo to sprint up the floor when his forwards snatched the rebound, forcing the rebounder to push the ball up the floor and find Rondo in stride rather than have him race down the court and leave his teammates in the dust.

This is an easy suggestion and one that, at first glance, you would think Rondo would accept. As hard as it is to believe that a guy who passes all the time is selfish and cares too much about stats, that may be who Rondo is. That makes this style of play, which you claim was catered for Rondo and should therefore work, inoperable.

You can preach "don't always believe what you hear," but the fact of the matter is that Danny has admitted trying to cash in Rondo for other -- sometimes better pieces -- and I think he tried to this year as well. That says a lot regarding his belief that the system will work in real life.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: lightspeed5 on February 24, 2013, 04:36:24 PM
A top ten player or someone who has the potential to be a top ten player someday.

Someone who is youngish. Under 30. Preferably 27 or under.
so basically you would trade rondo for rondo
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 24, 2013, 04:41:10 PM
Ainge seems to have a ridiculously high price tag for Rondo (even when injured)so this prevents any realistic moves in my opinion.

Or, Ainge has a realistic price tag and all realistic moves fail to bring back appropriate value.
I dunno, but asking for Dwight Howard when the your PG is injured is kinda ridiculous. Even if Rondo is healthy, most don't trade bigs for small. Doesn't really makes sense for the Lakers(and I despise them) at all in my opinion. Also he wanted a Melo (the Denver-NY trade) type of haul. Again that is quite ridiculous if Rondo is injured and questionable for next season. Most trades teams would do for Rondo, Ainge seems to scoff at.

The only way it makes sense for the Lakers to trade Dwight Howard is if he says there is no way he will return to the team.  Arguably, Rondo in that case is more than the Lakers deserve and only makes sense from the Celtics' perspective if that were the only way to make a trade work under the salary cap.

Since teams sometimes overpay, it makes sense for Ainge to shoot for a high goal.  It's a stupid strategy for a GM to try to make fair, even trades.  You might end up there as a compromise, but it's bad negotiating to start out with a moderate demand.

Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: dasani on February 24, 2013, 04:42:21 PM
You can preach "don't always believe what you hear," but the fact of the matter is that Danny has admitted trying to cash in Rondo for other -- sometimes better pieces -- and I think he tried to this year as well. That says a lot regarding his belief that the system will work in real life.

This is DA though, he has "tried" to trade everybody. But a lot of this is to seek what the player's value is on the market.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 24, 2013, 04:46:03 PM
I would not trade him aside from Westbrook and Chris Paul.    I do not see us trading him.   I see us using him while we rebuild and transition into a running team.  If KG retires and if RR can talk Smith into signing for Jeff Green money then you have three or four pieces to make another run with RR, JSmith, JGreen and Bradley.  Yes, odds will be long but better than a total rebuild.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 24, 2013, 04:46:19 PM
Do not trade Rondo.

You are crazy if you trade him. The roster we have right now is designed for Rondo to run.

We are moving away from the halfcourt skill set of the Big 3 era into a more uptempo style of offense.

Rondo can do both, but he can't not the afore mentioned with 3 aging (now 2) skilled players.

Trading Rondo now would be a huge mistake.

It depends if Rondo "changes" so to speak. Danny Ainge had a pretty good point at the beginning of the year; he said that a big problem with the team's stagnating offense was that the players completely depended on Rondo. That could be Doc's system, Rondo's presence or a little of both. He said when Jeff Green used to rip down rebounds for example, he'd immediately look for Rondo instead of pushing it up. He offered a suggestion: for Rondo to sprint up the floor when his forwards snatched the rebound, forcing the rebounder to push the ball up the floor and find Rondo in stride rather than have him race down the court and leave his teammates in the dust.

This is an easy suggestion and one that, at first glance, you would think Rondo would accept. As hard as it is to believe that a guy who passes all the time is selfish and cares too much about stats, that may be who Rondo is. That makes this style of play, which you claim was catered for Rondo and should therefore work, inoperable.

You can preach "don't always believe what you hear," but the fact of the matter is that Danny has admitted trying to cash in Rondo for other -- sometimes better pieces -- and I think he tried to this year as well. That says a lot regarding his belief that the system will work in real life.

I'd like to see those quotes from Danny where he has admitted "trying to cash in Rondo for other--sometimes better pieces."

I may have missed some, but most of the quotes that I've seen from Ainge regarding Rondo trade rumors are ones where he is denying them.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: scaryjerry on February 24, 2013, 04:46:43 PM
Taking our current roster into consideration, at a quick glance I'd go after someone like Al Jefferson or Al Horford, with the assumption that we're in win now mode, and KG returns next year.

Give me some Al!

Lol

Big Al is a loser and doesn't fit our current roster a lick
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on February 24, 2013, 04:46:48 PM
Chris paul...westbrook...not many others...Rondo is a great ball mover and handler...we already saw a few things that never happened to rondo...someone stealing the ball while we brought it up off the dribble....Rondo NEVER got picked from behind, or front...! Invented more passes than others, led in assists..and no, it isn't because we have better shoooters, there are MANY better shooting teams than the Celtics...so save that....
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 24, 2013, 04:47:12 PM
Do not trade Rondo.

You are crazy if you trade him. The roster we have right now is designed for Rondo to run.

We are moving away from the halfcourt skill set of the Big 3 era into a more uptempo style of offense.

Rondo can do both, but he can't not the afore mentioned with 3 aging (now 2) skilled players.

Trading Rondo now would be a huge mistake.

It depends if Rondo "changes" so to speak. Danny Ainge had a pretty good point at the beginning of the year; he said that a big problem with the team's stagnating offense was that the players completely depended on Rondo. That could be Doc's system, Rondo's presence or a little of both. He said when Jeff Green used to rip down rebounds for example, he'd immediately look for Rondo instead of pushing it up. He offered a suggestion: for Rondo to sprint up the floor when his forwards snatched the rebound, forcing the rebounder to push the ball up the floor and find Rondo in stride rather than have him race down the court and leave his teammates in the dust.

This is an easy suggestion and one that, at first glance, you would think Rondo would accept. As hard as it is to believe that a guy who passes all the time is selfish and cares too much about stats, that may be who Rondo is. That makes this style of play, which you claim was catered for Rondo and should therefore work, inoperable.

  Most of the time, when one of our guys get a rebound, you can see Rondo running up the court while signaling for an outlet pass. Most of the time the transition failed to materialize it was due to the lack of an outlet pass, not because Rondo slowed the play down.

You can preach "don't always believe what you hear," but the fact of the matter is that Danny has admitted trying to cash in Rondo for other -- sometimes better pieces -- and I think he tried to this year as well. That says a lot regarding his belief that the system will work in real life.

  The fact of the matter is that Danny discussed trading Rondo for Paul. Everything else is just rumor.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 24, 2013, 04:48:04 PM
Taking our current roster into consideration, at a quick glance I'd go after someone like Al Jefferson or Al Horford, with the assumption that we're in win now mode, and KG returns next year.

Give me some Al!

Lol

Big Al is a loser and doesn't fit our current roster a lick

Rondo would be a loser too in Minnesota and Utah.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: dasani on February 24, 2013, 04:48:22 PM
Ainge seems to have a ridiculously high price tag for Rondo (even when injured)so this prevents any realistic moves in my opinion.

Or, Ainge has a realistic price tag and all realistic moves fail to bring back appropriate value.
I dunno, but asking for Dwight Howard when the your PG is injured is kinda ridiculous. Even if Rondo is healthy, most don't trade bigs for small. Doesn't really makes sense for the Lakers(and I despise them) at all in my opinion. Also he wanted a Melo (the Denver-NY trade) type of haul. Again that is quite ridiculous if Rondo is injured and questionable for next season. Most trades teams would do for Rondo, Ainge seems to scoff at.

The only way it makes sense for the Lakers to trade Dwight Howard is if he says there is no way he will return to the team.  Arguably, Rondo in that case is more than the Lakers deserve and only makes sense from the Celtics' perspective if that were the only way to make a trade work under the salary cap.

Since teams sometimes overpay, it makes sense for Ainge to shoot for a high goal.  It's a stupid strategy for a GM to try to make fair, even trades.  You might end up there as a compromise, but it's bad negotiating to start out with a moderate demand.
Yes, but the Lakers rather take that risk their own selves which is why they are adamant about not trading Dwight at this point. My point is, though, Rondo could have already been traded, but I think Ainge hikes the price up beyond what a team is realistically wanting to give up. And it's not just Rondo (but Pierce, Ray, etc.).
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 24, 2013, 04:50:01 PM
A top ten player or someone who has the potential to be a top ten player someday.

Someone who is youngish. Under 30. Preferably 27 or under.
so basically you would trade rondo for rondo

  A lateral move, but a much better trade than most of the "trade Rondo" proposals. Still, I'd want a draft pick to come back with him.

Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: scaryjerry on February 24, 2013, 04:57:30 PM
Taking our current roster into consideration, at a quick glance I'd go after someone like Al Jefferson or Al Horford, with the assumption that we're in win now mode, and KG returns next year.

Give me some Al!

Lol

Big Al is a loser and doesn't fit our current roster a lick

Rondo would be a loser too in Minnesota and Utah.

proof? I'm sure he'd make a bigger impact then fat albert and make you regret trading him

I'm confident he would still be an all star and and put up better statistics and wouldn't be ok with losing
Jefferson is fine with losing and will never sniff an all star game..he's slow, plays no defense, can't jump....sounds like an awesome fit
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Induna on February 24, 2013, 04:59:28 PM
I'd love to say John Wall and a big (Nene oe Emeka Okafor) for Rondo and a piece or two including a pick. Doubt Washington is having this but Wall is wasted there.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Moranis on February 24, 2013, 05:06:46 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 24, 2013, 05:11:10 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

It would made absolutely no sense for us.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 24, 2013, 05:15:11 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

  Sounds great if we're going for a high draft pick.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: TheFlex on February 24, 2013, 05:25:45 PM
Do not trade Rondo.

You are crazy if you trade him. The roster we have right now is designed for Rondo to run.

We are moving away from the halfcourt skill set of the Big 3 era into a more uptempo style of offense.

Rondo can do both, but he can't not the afore mentioned with 3 aging (now 2) skilled players.

Trading Rondo now would be a huge mistake.

It depends if Rondo "changes" so to speak. Danny Ainge had a pretty good point at the beginning of the year; he said that a big problem with the team's stagnating offense was that the players completely depended on Rondo. That could be Doc's system, Rondo's presence or a little of both. He said when Jeff Green used to rip down rebounds for example, he'd immediately look for Rondo instead of pushing it up. He offered a suggestion: for Rondo to sprint up the floor when his forwards snatched the rebound, forcing the rebounder to push the ball up the floor and find Rondo in stride rather than have him race down the court and leave his teammates in the dust.

This is an easy suggestion and one that, at first glance, you would think Rondo would accept. As hard as it is to believe that a guy who passes all the time is selfish and cares too much about stats, that may be who Rondo is. That makes this style of play, which you claim was catered for Rondo and should therefore work, inoperable.

  Most of the time, when one of our guys get a rebound, you can see Rondo running up the court while signaling for an outlet pass. Most of the time the transition failed to materialize it was due to the lack of an outlet pass, not because Rondo slowed the play down.

You can preach "don't always believe what you hear," but the fact of the matter is that Danny has admitted trying to cash in Rondo for other -- sometimes better pieces -- and I think he tried to this year as well. That says a lot regarding his belief that the system will work in real life.

  The fact of the matter is that Danny discussed trading Rondo for Paul. Everything else is just rumor.

For your first disagreement, understand that you are disagreeing not just with me but with Danny Ainge. That doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong, but you're arguing with a guy (DA) who breathes Celtics 24/7, literally. I personally just plain disagree with your analysis. Your point that Rondo would sometimes be ahead of the outlet isn't exactly wrong, but the point is that because of the players' dependence on him, they would just stand around even if he was already halfway up the court. Either Danny sees something fans don't have the ability to see that makes such a conundrum the fault of Rondo, or it just means that the system and culture he put together this offseason is heavily flawed and therefore he wants to move Rondo for a different centerpiece. Overall though, even if your analysis is correct in that Rondo tried as hard as could to incorporate teammates in the running game, or more accurately that Jeff Green not engaging the fast break before heaving it up to Rondo is not the fault of Rondo, it still means that the system doesn't work. I have to think doing a complete overhaul of such a system without trading Rondo would waste a great many years of Rondo's career and value, and we'd be better suited to trade him for at least equal value of different sorts.

Lastly, your "it's only rumors" claim is just lame. Sure, there have been some bogus reports from guys like Sherrod and Broussard that don't make sense, but only so many can be leaked from credible guys like Ken Berger, Woj, etc. without at least a handful of them being true. Again, that doesn't mean Ainge is right about Rondo, but it does imply that he's trying to deal him and therefore makes the "who do you want?" discussion valid.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on February 24, 2013, 05:32:32 PM
not sure I would even trade Rondo but if I did I would want a package built around a young big with all-star potential and some draft picks.

Something along the lines of Greg Monroe/Jose Calderon/draft picks would catch my ear but not sure Detroit would consider.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Accension13 on February 24, 2013, 05:35:46 PM
It's really hard to get value for Rondo because over half the teams in the league already have good pg's. Their pg's may not be as good as Rondo,  but he may end up costing a team significantly for what maybe a modest upgrade. Most of the teams that don't have pg's may not value Rondo or they don't have anything of value to trade for him
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: gpap on February 24, 2013, 05:37:30 PM
Whatever I can get
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 24, 2013, 05:45:24 PM
Do not trade Rondo.

You are crazy if you trade him. The roster we have right now is designed for Rondo to run.

We are moving away from the halfcourt skill set of the Big 3 era into a more uptempo style of offense.

Rondo can do both, but he can't not the afore mentioned with 3 aging (now 2) skilled players.

Trading Rondo now would be a huge mistake.

It depends if Rondo "changes" so to speak. Danny Ainge had a pretty good point at the beginning of the year; he said that a big problem with the team's stagnating offense was that the players completely depended on Rondo. That could be Doc's system, Rondo's presence or a little of both. He said when Jeff Green used to rip down rebounds for example, he'd immediately look for Rondo instead of pushing it up. He offered a suggestion: for Rondo to sprint up the floor when his forwards snatched the rebound, forcing the rebounder to push the ball up the floor and find Rondo in stride rather than have him race down the court and leave his teammates in the dust.

This is an easy suggestion and one that, at first glance, you would think Rondo would accept. As hard as it is to believe that a guy who passes all the time is selfish and cares too much about stats, that may be who Rondo is. That makes this style of play, which you claim was catered for Rondo and should therefore work, inoperable.

  Most of the time, when one of our guys get a rebound, you can see Rondo running up the court while signaling for an outlet pass. Most of the time the transition failed to materialize it was due to the lack of an outlet pass, not because Rondo slowed the play down.

You can preach "don't always believe what you hear," but the fact of the matter is that Danny has admitted trying to cash in Rondo for other -- sometimes better pieces -- and I think he tried to this year as well. That says a lot regarding his belief that the system will work in real life.

  The fact of the matter is that Danny discussed trading Rondo for Paul. Everything else is just rumor.

For your first disagreement, understand that you are disagreeing not just with me but with Danny Ainge. That doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong, but you're arguing with a guy (DA) who breathes Celtics 24/7, literally. I personally just plain disagree with your analysis. Your point that Rondo would sometimes be ahead of the outlet isn't exactly wrong, but the point is that because of the players' dependence on him, they would just stand around even if he was already halfway up the court. Either Danny sees something fans don't have the ability to see that makes such a conundrum the fault of Rondo, or it just means that the system and culture he put together this offseason is heavily flawed and therefore he wants to move Rondo for a different centerpiece. Overall though, even if your analysis is correct in that Rondo tried as hard as could to incorporate teammates in the running game, or more accurately that Jeff Green not engaging the fast break before heaving it up to Rondo is not the fault of Rondo, it still means that the system doesn't work. I have to think doing a complete overhaul of such a system without trading Rondo would waste a great many years of Rondo's career and value, and we'd be better suited to trade him for at least equal value of different sorts.

  First of all Danny isn't blaming Rondo for the lack of a running game, he's talking about Rondo's teammates waiting to give Rondo the ball instead of pushing the ball up court. This isn't an isolated situation, players that come onto the Celts have been deferring to the stars for quite a while and Doc's discussed it a number of times about a number of players.

  Secondly, when you talk about Rondo having to "change" you need to keep in mind that Rondo's been very successful in transition over the years. Go back and watch the 2010 playoffs, for example. Rondo carved up the opposing teams when he got the ball in the open court. He still does. In the last game or two before Rondo's injury I remember the announcers gushing about Rondo being a "one man fast break" and one of the most dangerous players in the league in transition. It's not like Rondo doesn't have *years* of excelling in the system that you claim he needs to change his game for.

Lastly, your "it's only rumors" claim is just lame. Sure, there have been some bogus reports from guys like Sherrod and Broussard that don't make sense, but only so many can be leaked from credible guys like Ken Berger, Woj, etc. without at least a handful of them being true. Again, that doesn't mean Ainge is right about Rondo, but it does imply that he's trying to deal him and therefore makes the "who do you want?" discussion valid.

  What's just lame is your claiming that Danny's admitted to trying to trade Rondo and blaming me for not believing every anti-Rondo rumor when you realize that your claim was nonsense. Who has Danny admitted trying to trade Rondo for? In most of the cases you're probably thinking of the "admission" probably went like "we haven't had any such discussions and aren't trying to trade Rondo".
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 24, 2013, 05:47:28 PM
It's really hard to get value for Rondo because over half the teams in the league already have good pg's. Their pg's may not be as good as Rondo,  but he may end up costing a team significantly for what maybe a modest upgrade. Most of the teams that don't have pg's may not value Rondo or they don't have anything of value to trade for him

  People who want to trade Rondo should re-watch last year's playoffs, or the 2010 playoffs before the middle of the Orlando series. If you're not getting back someone that will perform at at least that level you lose the trade.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Greenback on February 24, 2013, 06:06:43 PM
Trade Rondo for a big who can rebound, block shots and run the floor.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Geo123 on February 24, 2013, 06:07:24 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery. 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 24, 2013, 06:22:28 PM
Trade Rondo for a big who can rebound, block shots and run the floor.

I'd rather see if we can find a big who can rebound, block shots and run the floor to team up with Rondo. 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Fafnir on February 24, 2013, 06:35:59 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 24, 2013, 08:22:22 PM
For me I would move him for a guy who can both help us win now and be a foundational piece for the future. Some on here might be better for the future then winning now, but they would still be helpful. Some I also think would help us win now more but would not be as great for the future because of age.

Straight up I would realistically consider moving Rondo for each of the following:

LeBron
Durant
Howard
Paul
Rose
Westbrook
Love
Parker
Irving
Griffin
D-Will
Paul George
Carmelo
Wade
Harden
Aldridge
Anthony Davis

There are a number of packages I would consider moving him for, but that's too much to get into.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: lightspeed5 on February 24, 2013, 08:23:49 PM
you would move rondo for max contract fat boy deron williams? hilarious
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 24, 2013, 08:43:36 PM
you would move rondo for max contract fat boy deron williams? hilarious

Yes I would realistically consider it.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: celticslove on February 24, 2013, 08:47:42 PM
Kyrie swap would be a steal
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: vjcsmoke on February 24, 2013, 09:07:57 PM
Kyrie swap would be a steal

Kyrie isn't going anywhere.  You could offer Cleveland the moon and they wouldn't trade him.  He is the new face of their franchise.

And as far as the Jeff Teague and Lou Williams trade for Rondo goes.  That is the worst trade I have ever heard of.  Giving away a top 5 PG for garbage/expiring contracts is just dumb.  We better be getting a CONFIRMED top 3 pick as well if we are moving Rondo for that kind of hot garbage.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 24, 2013, 09:14:11 PM
Ainge seems to have a ridiculously high price tag for Rondo (even when injured)so this prevents any realistic moves in my opinion.

Or, Ainge has a realistic price tag and all realistic moves fail to bring back appropriate value.
I dunno, but asking for Dwight Howard when the your PG is injured is kinda ridiculous. Even if Rondo is healthy, most don't trade bigs for small. Doesn't really makes sense for the Lakers(and I despise them) at all in my opinion. Also he wanted a Melo (the Denver-NY trade) type of haul. Again that is quite ridiculous if Rondo is injured and questionable for next season. Most trades teams would do for Rondo, Ainge seems to scoff at.

The only way it makes sense for the Lakers to trade Dwight Howard is if he says there is no way he will return to the team.  Arguably, Rondo in that case is more than the Lakers deserve and only makes sense from the Celtics' perspective if that were the only way to make a trade work under the salary cap.

Since teams sometimes overpay, it makes sense for Ainge to shoot for a high goal.  It's a stupid strategy for a GM to try to make fair, even trades.  You might end up there as a compromise, but it's bad negotiating to start out with a moderate demand.
Yes, but the Lakers rather take that risk their own selves which is why they are adamant about not trading Dwight at this point. My point is, though, Rondo could have already been traded, but I think Ainge hikes the price up beyond what a team is realistically wanting to give up. And it's not just Rondo (but Pierce, Ray, etc.).

In a negotiation, Ainge should start by asking for more than a team wants to give up.  Sometimes they cave and increase how much they are willing to trade.  Sometimes they are stupid and are willing to give up way more than Ainge thought they would.  If you want a team to give up a first round pick, you start by asking them to give you two, not by asking for a second round pick.

My point, though, is that the problem is not that Ainge is asking for too much, it's that other teams aren't willing to give up enough to justify a Rondo trade from the Celtics perspective.  There are no mutually beneficial trades out there.  Rondo's contract is too nice for there to be any salary cap reason for the Celtics to make a deal for less than an All-Star talent.  So, for a deal to go down, you need another team willing to dump a superior talent for salary cap reasons or because they are making a mistake in talent evaluation.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: celticsleyte on February 24, 2013, 09:37:42 PM
I am a big fan of Rondo but would probably consider twelve guys on that list.

So if I am GM Rondo probably never gets traded.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: erisred on February 24, 2013, 09:47:06 PM
For me I would move him for a guy who can both help us win now and be a foundational piece for the future. Some on here might be better for the future then winning now, but they would still be helpful. Some I also think would help us win now more but would not be as great for the future because of age.
This is a good list to consider.

Straight up I would realistically consider moving Rondo for each of the following:

LeBron    yes
Durant    yes
Howard    yes
Paul      yes 
Rose      yes
Westbrook no
Love      no
Parker    no
Irving    yes
Griffin   yes
D-Will    no
Paul George yes
Carmelo   no
Wade      no
Harden    yes
Aldridge  yes
Anthony Davis yes


...and maybe a top 3 pick most years. 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Roy H. on February 24, 2013, 10:25:57 PM
A good young big man and a serviceable starting point guard.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 24, 2013, 10:36:11 PM
A good young big man and a serviceable starting point guard.

I wonder what it would take to get Greg Monroe from Detroit. They have Drummond now, so might be willing to give him up for the right package.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Cman on February 24, 2013, 10:46:00 PM
Ainge seems to have a ridiculously high price tag for Rondo (even when injured)so this prevents any realistic moves in my opinion.

Or, Ainge has a realistic price tag and all realistic moves fail to bring back appropriate value.
I dunno, but asking for Dwight Howard when the your PG is injured is kinda ridiculous. Even if Rondo is healthy, most don't trade bigs for small. Doesn't really makes sense for the Lakers(and I despise them) at all in my opinion. Also he wanted a Melo (the Denver-NY trade) type of haul. Again that is quite ridiculous if Rondo is injured and questionable for next season. Most trades teams would do for Rondo, Ainge seems to scoff at.

Just to b clear, the Dwight for Rondo was pre injury. It's actually not that bad of a trade for the Lakers if they are convinced Dwight isn't coming back.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 24, 2013, 10:53:47 PM
A good young big man and a serviceable starting point guard.

I wonder what it would take to get Greg Monroe from Detroit. They have Drummond now, so might be willing to give him up for the right package.

They have future plans of moving Monroe to PF, so it would probably take a Monroe-Drummond lineup being a failure.  The main concern is probably that Monroe will become a defensive liability against someone like a smaller, faster perimeter-oriented stretch 4.  So, it would take Monroe looking bad against PFs like Brandon Bass, basically.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 24, 2013, 11:04:35 PM
For me I would move him for a guy who can both help us win now and be a foundational piece for the future. Some on here might be better for the future then winning now, but they would still be helpful. Some I also think would help us win now more but would not be as great for the future because of age.
This is a good list to consider.

Straight up I would realistically consider moving Rondo for each of the following:

LeBron    yes
Durant    yes
Howard    yes
Paul      yes 
Rose      yes
Westbrook no
Love      no
Parker    no
Irving    yes
Griffin   yes
D-Will    no
Paul George yes
Carmelo   no
Wade      no
Harden    yes
Aldridge  yes
Anthony Davis yes


...and maybe a top 3 pick most years.

Why I would consider the NOs and this is based on Rondo pre-injury.

Wade is a much better win now player. He simply looks like a number one again and him along with Pierce, Green, KG, etc. would make us very dangerous. He would fit perfectly because he is dynamite with the ball, but has also improved a great deal off the ball (and its not like he was ever bad it). I for one was wrong about his decline and impending demise.

Carmelo is basically the same reasons as Wade. He is a number one go to guy that can score at will. He can go H2H with anyone. Can also play with and off the ball very well.

Deron Williams has not looked good this season based on his previous level of play. How much is due to his ankle injuries? I would consider Williams b/c he brings more of a balance of scoring and creating for others.

I really like Love's fit with our front line. His rebounding would be amazing but his passing inside would be excellent with KG. I could see us moving the ball like C-Web's Kings. He is also someone that I think is a foundational player.

Westbrook intrigues me because he is so explosive and would be an interesting fit with the style of play we currently have. I also would love to see him in our locker room. OKC doesn't have the same veteran presence we do. I think our organization could be better at helping him harness his ability.

Last Parker was the hardest one. It's more win now. I see how he looks like a MVP with the Spurs and believe it could translate flawlessly to this team.

I am saying I would strongly consider a straight up swap, but that it's no brainer that I would.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 24, 2013, 11:06:12 PM
Ainge seems to have a ridiculously high price tag for Rondo (even when injured)so this prevents any realistic moves in my opinion.

Or, Ainge has a realistic price tag and all realistic moves fail to bring back appropriate value.
I dunno, but asking for Dwight Howard when the your PG is injured is kinda ridiculous. Even if Rondo is healthy, most don't trade bigs for small. Doesn't really makes sense for the Lakers(and I despise them) at all in my opinion. Also he wanted a Melo (the Denver-NY trade) type of haul. Again that is quite ridiculous if Rondo is injured and questionable for next season. Most trades teams would do for Rondo, Ainge seems to scoff at.

Just to b clear, the Dwight for Rondo was pre injury. It's actually not that bad of a trade for the Lakers if they are convinced Dwight isn't coming back.

Depends what Nash would return. Maxing out Kobe's last couple years has to be a high priority. Not the highest, but it's up there.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 24, 2013, 11:09:26 PM
A good young big man and a serviceable starting point guard.

I wonder what it would take to get Greg Monroe from Detroit. They have Drummond now, so might be willing to give him up for the right package.

They have future plans of moving Monroe to PF, so it would probably take a Monroe-Drummond lineup being a failure.  The main concern is probably that Monroe will become a defensive liability against someone like a smaller, faster perimeter-oriented stretch 4.  So, it would take Monroe looking bad against PFs like Brandon Bass, basically.

The other possibility would be Kanter. No way would Utah give up Favors, but I think they would probably give up Kanter with the right package involving Rondo.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 24, 2013, 11:33:13 PM
A good young big man and a serviceable starting point guard.

I wonder what it would take to get Greg Monroe from Detroit. They have Drummond now, so might be willing to give him up for the right package.

They have future plans of moving Monroe to PF, so it would probably take a Monroe-Drummond lineup being a failure.  The main concern is probably that Monroe will become a defensive liability against someone like a smaller, faster perimeter-oriented stretch 4.  So, it would take Monroe looking bad against PFs like Brandon Bass, basically.

The other possibility would be Kanter. No way would Utah give up Favors, but I think they would probably give up Kanter with the right package involving Rondo.

The right package would probably include a lottery pick that the Celtics don't have and that Ainge wouldn't (and should't) give up if he had it.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: PhoSita on February 25, 2013, 01:15:09 AM
I'd be okay with trading Rondo for a package centered around any of the following players:

- LeBron James
- Kevin Durant
- Chris Paul
- Derrick Rose
- Tony Parker
- Brook Lopez
- Dwyane Wade
- James Harden
- Carmelo Anthony
- Blake Griffin
- Russell Westbrook
- Kyrie Irving
- Kobe
- Andre Drummond
- Chris Bosh
- Anthony Davis
- Demarcus Cousins
- Lamarcus Aldridge
- Stephen Curry
- Greg Monroe
- Dwight Howard
- Al Horford
- Marc Gasol
- Serge Ibaka
- Jrue Holiday
- Kevin Love
- Paul George
- Damian Lillard
- John Wall
- Derrick Favors

Possible I missed one or two.  I just went down the list of PER leaders.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Smutzy#9 on February 25, 2013, 04:00:24 AM
Kyrie Irving
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Moranis on February 25, 2013, 06:38:14 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: chambers on February 25, 2013, 07:50:09 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

That's two mediocre players for one superstar. We don't even get a pick or something? Would the Clippers takes those bums for Chris Paul ? Of course not.
Amazing how undervalued the kid is by people who watch him regularly.

For me, something like DeMarcus Cousins + Sacramento's lottery pick would be a good return.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: slamtheking on February 25, 2013, 08:37:09 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

That's two mediocre players for one superstar. We don't even get a pick or something? Would the Clippers takes those bums for Chris Paul ? Of course not.
Amazing how undervalued the kid is by people who watch him regularly.

For me, something like DeMarcus Cousins + Sacramento's lottery pick would be a good return.
I think that's a better starting point.  It would take an established superstar OR an All-star with another high-level talent OR at minimum 2-3 really top level prospects.  Cousins at this point is just a prospect in my opinion because he's yet to show the maturity or drive to win. 

I'd rather keep Rondo than trade him, especially since I don't see a deal out there that will guarantee a title this year which would be the only reason to trade him
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Moranis on February 25, 2013, 08:56:57 AM
You guys are insane.  Sacramento won't even trade Cousins for Rondo let alone adding a lottery pick.  The thread wants realistic trades, not total nonsense that just won't happen.  It's fine if you don't want to trade Rondo, but having a starting point that is so far from reality takes realism totally out of the equation.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: slamtheking on February 25, 2013, 09:25:42 AM
You guys are insane.  Sacramento won't even trade Cousins for Rondo let alone adding a lottery pick.  The thread wants realistic trades, not total nonsense that just won't happen.  It's fine if you don't want to trade Rondo, but having a starting point that is so far from reality takes realism totally out of the equation.
and you're insane if your lowball value on Rondo is anywhere near acceptable.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Fred Roberts on February 25, 2013, 09:34:04 AM
I think something realistic would be a young and pretty unproven big plus filler to match contracts (if needed).

Something like Larry Sanders, Andre Drummond, Meyers Leonard or Enes Kanter. You'd have to go after someone with promise that has yet to be fulfilled, where a rival GM takes the sure thing in Rondo in exchange for potential that may or may not be reached in a big man.

Either that or a recent lottery pick like Harrison Barnes, that similarly shows promise, but has a few years to go to be able to reach it.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 09:37:23 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: CFAN38 on February 25, 2013, 09:41:41 AM
As others have said if rondo is traded it should be for a young athletic big. This is by fare the toughest position to fill in the nba. Before his injury I was hoping for a trade built around rondo for Noel.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LEHGOCELTICS on February 25, 2013, 10:12:57 AM
A big or the number one draft pick in the upcoming draft -- AKA Mr. Nerlens Noel.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Moranis on February 25, 2013, 10:18:06 AM
As others have said if rondo is traded it should be for a young athletic big. This is by fare the toughest position to fill in the nba. Before his injury I was hoping for a trade built around rondo for Noel.
so you don't want to trade Rondo then because the celtics are not getting a young athletic big that has shown any kind of porential for Rondo.  Flawed point guards that can't shoot and haven't shown real improvement in years don't have great value.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 10:33:58 AM
As others have said if rondo is traded it should be for a young athletic big. This is by fare the toughest position to fill in the nba. Before his injury I was hoping for a trade built around rondo for Noel.
so you don't want to trade Rondo then because the celtics are not getting a young athletic big that has shown any kind of porential for Rondo.  Flawed point guards that can't shoot and haven't shown real improvement in years don't have great value.

  Aside from the ridiculous notion that Rondo hasn't shown any improvement, it all boils down to whether you think it's more important that Rondo's a dominant player in the postseason or that he has flaws in his game.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 10:51:49 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.

If they're going to trade Rondo, it will likely be a 2-for-1 including one very good established player, and either a prospect or another starter.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 25, 2013, 11:01:10 AM
an impact Big
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 11:11:51 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 25, 2013, 11:27:54 AM
The fact that Rondo was (arguably) the best player, or (inarguably) at least the second best player on a team that made it to a seventh game of the ECF last year,  the fact that he finished 8th in MVP voting for the 2011-2012 season, was an all star and a 3rd team all NBA selection, the fact that he has been voted to the all NBA defensive team by opposing coaches four straight years, the fact that this year was his fourth straight all star selection, the fact that he was voted 10th in the MVP voting for the 2010-2011 season, the fact that he was one of the best players in the playoffs in both the 2009 season without Kevin Garnett and the 2010 season where we made it to within four minutes of a title, the fact that he was dominant in our first round series in 2011 and gamely fought on against the Heat in the second round with only one arm are all merely examples of homerism and the tendency of a few Celtics fans to completely overrate our point guard.

In reality, despite the above facts, Rajon Rondo is almost completely useless and worthless.   


Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 11:29:32 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

If you're saying you'd rather just keep Rondo than trade him for Mayo and Conley -- fair enough. If you're hoping the Cs could get more -- I doubt it. 

Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 12:04:53 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Moranis on February 25, 2013, 01:50:55 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
well we know that Rondo couldn't be traded for Chris Paul or Stephen Curry before last year.  This was 22 year old Steph Curry that had an ankle injury, not the 24 year old Steph Curry of right now.  I think that should give you a pretty good idea of his trade value.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 01:54:40 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
well we know that Rondo couldn't be traded for Chris Paul or Stephen Curry before last year.  This was 22 year old Steph Curry that had an ankle injury, not the 24 year old Steph Curry of right now.  I think that should give you a pretty good idea of his trade value.

  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 25, 2013, 02:20:30 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
well we know that Rondo couldn't be traded for Chris Paul or Stephen Curry before last year.  This was 22 year old Steph Curry that had an ankle injury, not the 24 year old Steph Curry of right now.  I think that should give you a pretty good idea of his trade value.

  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.
It was probably a darn short discussion and it happened before Rondo went out with a torn ACL.  I'm sure Rondo for Dwight could theoretically be discussed if Dwight was demanding a trade and planning on bailing on LA and leaving them nothing in return. 

Rondo's a great player, but he's a limited player and not someone who can carry a team.  He also has severe flaws in his game and requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful.  It really hurts his potential trade value.  Look at the kind of deals we've been rejected for.

Chris Paul - Clearly superior to Rondo in most ways
Steph Curry - You take elite shooting over elite passing all day.
Pau Gasol - You take an elite big over an elite passer all day.. 

Elite scoring and elite bigs are what wins titles... this isn't football.  You don't need a quarterback.  You need someone who can put the ball the bucket and prevent others from doing the same.

So I think the type of guy you could get for Rondo would be a big who isn't quite elite... or a scorer who isn't quite elite.  I'm talkin bout someone like a Danny Granger if you're looking for scoring.  Or... perhaps someone like Al Jefferson from a team like Utah who needs an upgrade at PG and is loaded with bigs.  That's the wheelhouse for ROndo's trade value. 

Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 25, 2013, 02:45:53 PM
Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

"As good as the C's will ever do" is probably not enough of a return to justify trading Rondo for pure basketball reasons.  You'd probably need something like salary cap or locker room reasons to justify trading Rondo for the best you are likely to get back for him.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 03:18:39 PM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.

I'm not commenting about how effective Rondo is. I'm pointing out that you're overrating his trade value.

  You're guessing that I'm overrating his trade value, neither of us know exactly what it is and your assumption seems to be that his trade value isn't based on how effective a player he is.
well we know that Rondo couldn't be traded for Chris Paul or Stephen Curry before last year.  This was 22 year old Steph Curry that had an ankle injury, not the 24 year old Steph Curry of right now.  I think that should give you a pretty good idea of his trade value.

  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.
It was probably a darn short discussion and it happened before Rondo went out with a torn ACL.  I'm sure Rondo for Dwight could theoretically be discussed if Dwight was demanding a trade and planning on bailing on LA and leaving them nothing in return. 

Rondo's a great player, but he's a limited player and not someone who can carry a team.  He also has severe flaws in his game and requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful.  It really hurts his potential trade value.  Look at the kind of deals we've been rejected for.

Chris Paul - Clearly superior to Rondo in most ways
Steph Curry - You take elite shooting over elite passing all day.
Pau Gasol - You take an elite big over an elite passer all day.. 

Elite scoring and elite bigs are what wins titles... this isn't football.  You don't need a quarterback.  You need someone who can put the ball the bucket and prevent others from doing the same.

  Color me unsurprised that you'd dismiss any rumors that show Rondo to be valuable yet treat other rumors like fact. Also Rondo's shown himself to be a player who's capable of carrying the team  in multiple playoff runs. It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful". I'd love to here about the specific style of team and type of teammates that includes either Bradley or Ray at sg, and any of Shaq or Perk or Bass as a front court partner with KG. And you can come up with as many reasons as you like that you think that "other players win titles", but that doesn't mean Rondo hasn't led the team on deep playoff runs and it also doesn't mean that players like Curry, Paul or Pau have led teams as far as Rondo has.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 25, 2013, 03:38:43 PM


Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

I definitely think the Kidd comparison is a good one for Rondo.  Rondo is truly a unique player, but Jason Kidd is probably the player in recent memory who is most reminiscent of Rajon. 

Interestingly, in each of the trades you mention, the team that acquired Kidd got the better of the trade.  Maybe that should serve as a lesson for Danny if he ever thinks about trading away Rondo for more of a scorer. 

Also, I want to point out that when you say that Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo, you should keep in mind that Rondo hasn't reached his prime yet.

That knee is the big wild card now.  I'm hoping it heals up completely so that we get to see him reach that prime as a Celtic.   
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 25, 2013, 03:51:01 PM


Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

I definitely think the Kidd comparison is a good one for Rondo.  Rondo is truly a unique player, but Jason Kidd is probably the player in recent memory who is most reminiscent of Rajon. 

Interestingly, in each of the trades you mention, the team that acquired Kidd got the better of the trade.  Maybe that should serve as a lesson for Danny if he ever thinks about trading away Rondo for more of a scorer. 

Also, I want to point out that when you say that Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo, you should keep in mind that Rondo hasn't reached his prime yet.

That knee is the big wild card now.  I'm hoping it heals up completely so that we get to see him reach that prime as a Celtic.

The difference is that Kidd was a better shooter than Rondo, and I don't recall him ever having Rondo's maturity issues (constant suspensions, playing when he feels like it, etc).  Same can be said for Stockton too.

Kidd was always a good free throw shooter so he wasn't afraid of being fouled at the end of games, he could hot the three so defenders couldn't D way off him the way they can with Rondo, and he always showed up to play.  I also think he was better at playing to other guy's strengths than Rondo.

How many guys can you think of who got significantly better after playing with Rondo?
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 25, 2013, 03:51:31 PM


Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

I definitely think the Kidd comparison is a good one for Rondo.  Rondo is truly a unique player, but Jason Kidd is probably the player in recent memory who is most reminiscent of Rajon. 

Interestingly, in each of the trades you mention, the team that acquired Kidd got the better of the trade.  Maybe that should serve as a lesson for Danny if he ever thinks about trading away Rondo for more of a scorer. 

Also, I want to point out that when you say that Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo, you should keep in mind that Rondo hasn't reached his prime yet.

That knee is the big wild card now.  I'm hoping it heals up completely so that we get to see him reach that prime as a Celtic.

The difference is that Kidd was a better shooter than Rondo, and I don't recall him ever having Rondo's maturity issues (constant suspensions, playing when he feels like it, etc).  Same can be said for Stockton too.

Kidd was always a good free throw shooter so he wasn't afraid of being fouled at the end of games, he could hot the three so defenders couldn't D way off him the way they can with Rondo, and he always showed up to play.  I also think he was better at playing to other guy's strengths than Rondo.

How many guys can you think of who got significantly better after playing with Rondo?

Kidd used to be a below-average shooter, I thought.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 04:06:34 PM


Really when you look at Rondo's career he's basically a poor man's Jason Kidd.  Kidd has been traded multiple times in his career

#1 - Along with two guys who were recently picked in the 1st round, he was traded for for Michael Finley (who at that point was 23 years old and averaging 13 points... eventually made a couple allstar teams in his career but never was an "elite" scorer) ... and 27 year old Sam Cassell who actually was only like a 14 and 5 guy at the time.   

What would you compare that trade to at that point in their respective careers?... I think it would be like trading Rondo + Sully + Melo for Darren Collinson and OJ Mayo.

#2 - Traded for Stephon Marbury... a bit of a headcase.  He had yet to make an allstar team.  More of a scorer than a traditional point guard.  His team had stunk.  He was still only 23 though.  What would you compare that trade to?... Rondo for Brandon Jennings?

#3 - Traded for Devin Harris ... strange deal, because Kidd was kind of over the hill and Harris was a young decent player who had put together some inflated stats.  He was 24 and averaging 14 and 4.  That's like trading Rondo for something between a Ramon Sessions and a Brandon Knight.

And then of course Kidd's trade value was always higher than Rondo's just because Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo and Kidd (on the court at least) didn't seem to have a lot of the stigmas that Rondo has (moody, poor leadership, mails in games). 

So I'd say Rondo's trade value (when healthy) is somewhere between Al Jefferson and Ramon Sessions.   I'd say Rondo's trade value during the trade deadline (torn ACL) was just about nothing.  And I'd say that I'd rather hang onto Rondo than get the kind of return we'd be able to get for him.

I definitely think the Kidd comparison is a good one for Rondo.  Rondo is truly a unique player, but Jason Kidd is probably the player in recent memory who is most reminiscent of Rajon. 

Interestingly, in each of the trades you mention, the team that acquired Kidd got the better of the trade.  Maybe that should serve as a lesson for Danny if he ever thinks about trading away Rondo for more of a scorer. 

Also, I want to point out that when you say that Kidd in his prime was better than Rondo, you should keep in mind that Rondo hasn't reached his prime yet.

That knee is the big wild card now.  I'm hoping it heals up completely so that we get to see him reach that prime as a Celtic.

The difference is that Kidd was a better shooter than Rondo, and I don't recall him ever having Rondo's maturity issues (constant suspensions, playing when he feels like it, etc).  Same can be said for Stockton too.

Kidd was always a good free throw shooter so he wasn't afraid of being fouled at the end of games, he could hot the three so defenders couldn't D way off him the way they can with Rondo, and he always showed up to play.  I also think he was better at playing to other guy's strengths than Rondo.

How many guys can you think of who got significantly better after playing with Rondo?

  You don't know much about Kidd if you think he never had maturity issues. They had to break up the Mavs in no small part over a feud he had with a teammate over a girl. Rondo's had 4 seasons with a higher efg% than Kidd's best year before he was 35, he wasn't anywhere near the shooter you think he was either. And if you're looking for players that had their best shooting years playing with Rondo, start with PP, RA, probably KG, Shaq, Krstic and Green. I'm sure there are others. The claim that Rondo doesn't make other players better is nonsensical.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 04:11:58 PM
Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

"As good as the C's will ever do" is probably not enough of a return to justify trading Rondo for pure basketball reasons.  You'd probably need something like salary cap or locker room reasons to justify trading Rondo for the best you are likely to get back for him.

I think you're right. I don't think the Cs are likely to ever get 'equal value' from a basketball perspective for him -- especially if they wait until next summer or after to trade him.

Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 04:18:35 PM


  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? In all likelihood, that was a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 04:25:20 PM


  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 04:39:52 PM


  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Got it. I bet we can agree it didn't come from the Lakers, which leaves....
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 04:44:26 PM


  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Got it. I bet we can agree it didn't come from the Lakers, which leaves....

  And I'm assuming you know that it didn't come from the Lakers because there were previous Rondo-Gasol rumors and Kobe's talked about wanting Rondo on his team before, right?
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 05:08:09 PM


  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Got it. I bet we can agree it didn't come from the Lakers, which leaves....

  And I'm assuming you know that it didn't come from the Lakers because there were previous Rondo-Gasol rumors and Kobe's talked about wanting Rondo on his team before, right?

Well let's see if we can agree on the below without facetiousness.

Rule of thumb: NBA trade rumors are leaked by the team (or player, if they want out) with the most to gain. That applies to Rondo for Gasol (Lakers) just like it does to Rondo for Howard (Celtics). It typically has very little to do with the actual rumor itself, but rather with boosting the market for the player of lesser value, or, Gasol and Rondo respectively in these two instances.

In the case of Rondo, Kobe waxing poetic about Rondo, cobined with the perceived discontent between Kobe and Howard, gave the Cs a perfect excuse to float such talk right before the trade deadline. It probably coincides with some light discussion between the Cs and another team about Rondo -- say, the Kings. Worst case, Petrie gets anxious, calls up and increases his offer to Ainge as a reaction. If he doesn't, Ainge can always go back to Rondo's agent a couple of days later and say: "we are not trade Rajon right now"... vote of confidence for his recovering PG.

Seem fair?


 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 25, 2013, 05:13:24 PM
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Moranis on February 25, 2013, 05:15:17 PM
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.
Rondo is horrid in the pick and roll.  An offense built for that, would fail with Rondo running the show. 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 05:19:33 PM


  We also know that he's the kind of player that the Lakers would discuss trading Dwight Howard for, clearly his value has shot up since then.

You say I can't speculate above, but then you speculate here. Which is it?

Far more importantly, do you actually buy for a moment that the Lakers thought about trading Howard for Rondo? That was clearly a Boston-floated rumor.

C'mon now...

  Sorry, I was being facetious. The vast majority of what people "know" on this blog are things that they're guessing about. Like whether that rumor was Boston-floated.

Got it. I bet we can agree it didn't come from the Lakers, which leaves....

  And I'm assuming you know that it didn't come from the Lakers because there were previous Rondo-Gasol rumors and Kobe's talked about wanting Rondo on his team before, right?

Well let's see if we can agree on the below without facetiousness.

Rule of thumb: NBA trade rumors are leaked by the team (or player, if they want out) with the most to gain. That applies to Rondo for Gasol (Lakers) just like it does to Rondo for Howard (Celtics). It typically has very little to do with the actual rumor itself, but rather with boosting the market for the player of lesser value, or, Gasol and Rondo respectively in these two instances.

In the case of Rondo, Kobe waxing poetic about Rondo, cobined with the perceived discontent between Kobe and Howard, gave the Cs a perfect excuse to float such talk right before the trade deadline. It probably coincides with some light discussion between the Cs and another team about Rondo -- say, the Kings. Worst case, Petrie gets anxious, calls up and increases his offer to Ainge as a reaction. If he doesn't, Ainge can always go back to Rondo's agent a couple of days later and say: "we are not trade Rajon right now"... vote of confidence for his recovering PG.

Seem fair?


 

  Rule of thumb, trade rumors aren't always leaked by either team, many are based on speculation of likely  trading partners and some are made up out of whole cloth. Your scenario is a possible one, it's also possible that the Lakers felt that Dwight a) wasn't healthy and b) might leave at the end of the year and were looking for what they could trade him for that would help them win in Kobe's window and give them a good player going forward. Rondo fits both bills.

  If we're being serious, there must have plenty of trades that you've seen where you didn't see the reasoning for one of the teams. I'm sure at least some of them panned out differently than you expected. This could simply be another one of those times.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 05:22:20 PM
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.
Rondo is horrid in the pick and roll.  An offense built for that, would fail with Rondo running the show.

  According to synergy sports Rondo's scoring in pick and rolls as the ballhandler is worse than CP and Parker, better than Westbrook or Curry, the same as Nash. Those were the only players I checked. But overall his numbers looked pretty good.

  Update: Rondo's scoring in pick and roll ballhandler plays from synergy sports is also worse than Lillard, better than Irving, Conley, Jennings, Holiday and Deron.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Rtpas11 on February 25, 2013, 07:28:47 PM
Noh Gets: Rondo, Bass

Bos Gets: Anderson, Lopez, Pick

Or

Rondo for DWIGHT str8 up

or

Rondo for Nik Vuc, Harkless & Pick
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 25, 2013, 07:48:13 PM
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

By detail-oriented, I mean a system with a playbook that requires players to know their roles and execute well, the opposite of a system with a lot of free-lancing and unstructured individual creativity.  I think Rondo has the sort of mind that would find a Mike D'Antoni style transition offense to be abhorrent, even if he had a jump shot that made him seem like a better fit.  A team that runs more than average because its defense forces turnovers would fit Rondo better.  I sometimes think he gambles for steals because he thinks that is the best way to initiate points in transition.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 08:29:53 PM
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

By detail-oriented, I mean a system with a playbook that requires players to know their roles and execute well, the opposite of a system with a lot of free-lancing and unstructured individual creativity.  I think Rondo has the sort of mind that would find a Mike D'Antoni style transition offense to be abhorrent, even if he had a jump shot that made him seem like a better fit.  A team that runs more than average because its defense forces turnovers would fit Rondo better.  I sometimes think he gambles for steals because he thinks that is the best way to initiate points in transition.

  The opposite is true. Rondo likes to run an unstructured, creative offense, Doc sometimes needs him to get back to running set plays. There was a lot of discussion about it in the playoffs last year, Doc calls it Rondo's "random mode".

Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 25, 2013, 08:51:15 PM
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

By detail-oriented, I mean a system with a playbook that requires players to know their roles and execute well, the opposite of a system with a lot of free-lancing and unstructured individual creativity.  I think Rondo has the sort of mind that would find a Mike D'Antoni style transition offense to be abhorrent, even if he had a jump shot that made him seem like a better fit.  A team that runs more than average because its defense forces turnovers would fit Rondo better.  I sometimes think he gambles for steals because he thinks that is the best way to initiate points in transition.

I agree with your last point about Rondo being best suited to lead a team that likes to run off creating turnovers.  That's the kind of team that I'm hoping to see Danny and Doc build for the future.   With Bradley and Green alongside Rondo, I think we've got a decent core to continue to build a defensively aggressive, high turnover producing, up-tempo team. 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: More Banners on February 25, 2013, 08:52:22 PM
I try to get a center since a good center is hard to come by and we need one, now and in the future since...we have 3 guards locked up with AB, Lee, and JET, and 3 forwards locked up in Green, Bass, and Sully, plus Pierce and KG for win-now.

Older Gasol with pick, younger Gasol straight up (binkie alert!).

Gortat plus Dragic or Gortat plus 1st.

I think such a thing leaves us still pretty well set up, no worse off than having Rondo, but just structured differently.  I'm biased toward bigs, so no surprise...

Things like that.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 10:49:14 PM
It's also completely untrue that he requires a really specific style of team and type of teammates in order for him to be successful".

While I don't think Rondo needs a specific style, I do think he does better in detail-oriented systems.  I actually don't think he would be that happy in a running offense unless the offense flows from a complex defense (one more principled than "stay in front of your man") that aggressively seeks to cause turnovers to initiate the transition game.

  Not sure exactly what you mean by a detail-oriented system, or why you'd think his happiness in a running offense is dependent on what type of defense his team plays.

By detail-oriented, I mean a system with a playbook that requires players to know their roles and execute well, the opposite of a system with a lot of free-lancing and unstructured individual creativity.  I think Rondo has the sort of mind that would find a Mike D'Antoni style transition offense to be abhorrent, even if he had a jump shot that made him seem like a better fit.  A team that runs more than average because its defense forces turnovers would fit Rondo better.  I sometimes think he gambles for steals because he thinks that is the best way to initiate points in transition.

  I think this is the first time I've ever heard the claim that a player wants to play in a running offense but only if the transition plays are based on turnovers and not from rebounds or quick inbounding after made baskets. What is it about Rondo's play have you seen that would make you think he wants to run after turnovers but not after defensive rebounds?
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 26, 2013, 12:06:54 AM
So, any takers on Big Al yet to play with KG? Rondo is not my first choice to make it happen, but if needed be, come on, that would be a cool duo.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: chambers on February 26, 2013, 05:56:15 AM
You guys are insane.  Sacramento won't even trade Cousins for Rondo let alone adding a lottery pick.  The thread wants realistic trades, not total nonsense that just won't happen.  It's fine if you don't want to trade Rondo, but having a starting point that is so far from reality takes realism totally out of the equation.

I find your consensus hilarious.
You think the Kings wouldn't trade Cousins for Rondo?
A young psycho/mentally ill big with all star potential and a top 12 pick in the first round for a bonafide All Star point guard that sells the 3rd most jerseys in the NBA and leads the NBA in assists and triple doubles?

You're not being realistic on what he's worth at all.
In fact you're almost trolling.
Go to Real GM in the NBA forum and make a topic. "what is Rondo worth in a trade?" and see what the average non-homer non-celtic fan says. It starts with someone like Cousins and gets better.
Lawl Teague and Williams? L A W L
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 26, 2013, 08:04:37 AM
You guys are insane.  Sacramento won't even trade Cousins for Rondo let alone adding a lottery pick.  The thread wants realistic trades, not total nonsense that just won't happen.  It's fine if you don't want to trade Rondo, but having a starting point that is so far from reality takes realism totally out of the equation.

I find your consensus hilarious.
You think the Kings wouldn't trade Cousins for Rondo?
A young psycho/mentally ill big with all star potential and a top 12 pick in the first round for a bonafide All Star point guard that sells the 3rd most jerseys in the NBA and leads the NBA in assists and triple doubles?

You're not being realistic on what he's worth at all.
In fact you're almost trolling.
Go to Real GM in the NBA forum and make a topic. "what is Rondo worth in a trade?" and see what the average non-homer non-celtic fan says. It starts with someone like Cousins and gets better.
Lawl Teague and Williams? L A W L

I'm pretty sure Sacramento would be interested in Rondo for Cousins personally, but I don't think Rondo's trade value is as high as some of us speculate we want it to be, despite how some of us rank Rondo among the best players in the league.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Moranis on February 26, 2013, 08:59:01 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 26, 2013, 09:24:34 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.

You'd prefer the more consistent Jeff Teague?  Jeff Teague who shot 33% or worse in three of the six playoff games his Hawks played in their series loss to the Celtics last year. 

Sure, like Jeff Teague, and everyone else in the league, Rondo has some bad games (do I need to remind you of how Lebron James played in the last three games of the 2010 series against the Celtics?),  but Jeff Teague doesn't have the ability, like Rondo, to take over games and have transcendent performances.  That's why Rondo is much, much better than a nice player like Jeff Teague. 

You can call Jeff Teague "consistent" because when he's bad, he's not much worse than what anybody expects out of his talent level, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think he has anywhere near the value to his team as somebody with the talent level of Rajon Rondo. 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 26, 2013, 09:49:08 AM
I would not trade Rondo and Bass for Teague and Williams (and change).

I would have traded Rondo and Bass before the deadline for Teague, Horford and one other asset (i.e. Korver, a pick, etc). Would have greatly increased the Cs chances to compete for a title this season, and it'll likely be a while before they're position to compete for one again.

I'd also think the Hawks would have been interested in such a deal if there was a desirable domino effect for them... Rondo convinces Smith to stay, Smith and Rondo convince Howard to sign this summer, and so on... so I'd venture to guess that the Hawks decided they have no interest at all in re-signing Smith, and therefore don't see the point in trading for Rondo.

Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 26, 2013, 09:55:12 AM
So, any takers on Big Al yet to play with KG? Rondo is not my first choice to make it happen, but if needed be, come on, that would be a cool duo.

I want to like this idea.... but Al is still such a poor defender. It's a little offensive. I feel like it would make me crazy to watch.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 10:06:40 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

  It's fairly unsurprising that you have a low opinion of what Rondo's worth when your opinion of when he has a good or bad game is solely related to how well he shoots or scores. He wasn't atrociously bad in all of those games, including the game where we beat the Heat when he was 3-15. He also had 4 steals, 6 boards and 13 assists and played tough defense. He played all but 3.5 minutes of that game, the Celts got outscored by 7 in those 3.5 minutes.

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.

  First of all a lesser talented but more consistent player brings you nothing of value. Teague's a nice player to have that makes a good steady contribution, you just need to surround him with some stars who's play will be good enough to carry the team. Rondo's a "carry the team" type. And "when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on" is complete nonsense. Rondo has more to fall back on when his shot isn't falling than about 99% of the league. His passing, his rebounding, his defense, the way he controls the pace of the game and runs an offense. Rondo (more than almost anyone in the league) can dominate a game without scoring and he's been doing it for years.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 10:08:50 AM
I would not trade Rondo and Bass for Teague and Williams (and change).

I would have traded Rondo and Bass before the deadline for Teague, Horford and one other asset (i.e. Korver, a pick, etc). Would have greatly increased the Cs chances to compete for a title this season, and it'll likely be a while before they're position to compete for one again.

  If Rondo and Sully come back healthy they'll be competing for one next year.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 26, 2013, 10:11:07 AM
So, any takers on Big Al yet to play with KG? Rondo is not my first choice to make it happen, but if needed be, come on, that would be a cool duo.

I want to like this idea.... but Al is still such a poor defender. It's a little offensive. I feel like it would make me crazy to watch.

Yet we make due with Bass and Wilcox, who in general are not good defenders either, and way worse offensively, and way worse rebounders. Big Al is one of the most proficient low post scorers, someone that with our team you can't afford to double team with us. And he's bigger, which means he can play with Sully too.

KG-Jefferson-Sully would make a great 3 big rotation.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 26, 2013, 10:20:17 AM
So, any takers on Big Al yet to play with KG? Rondo is not my first choice to make it happen, but if needed be, come on, that would be a cool duo.

I want to like this idea.... but Al is still such a poor defender. It's a little offensive. I feel like it would make me crazy to watch.

Yet we make due with Bass and Wilcox, who in general are not good defenders either, and way worse offensively, and way worse rebounders. Big Al is one of the most proficient low post scorers, someone that with our team you can't afford to double team with us. And he's bigger, which means he can play with Sully too.

KG-Jefferson-Sully would make a great 3 big rotation.

I hear you -- I get Al's game. Nice fit with KG on the offensive end. Excellent rebounder. Good guy. Worst team defender I can think of, and has really never improved.

By the way, we don't get by with Bass and Wilcox, unless you mean as a middle of the pack team hoping LeBron James tears a hamstring. Al would be a marked improvement on a lot of fronts, but I think his defensive deficiencies would be poisonous to any legitimate championship hopes. 

Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 26, 2013, 10:21:55 AM
I would not trade Rondo and Bass for Teague and Williams (and change).

I would have traded Rondo and Bass before the deadline for Teague, Horford and one other asset (i.e. Korver, a pick, etc). Would have greatly increased the Cs chances to compete for a title this season, and it'll likely be a while before they're position to compete for one again.

  If Rondo and Sully come back healthy they'll be competing for one next year.

I admire your optimism, but don't agree. 
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Moranis on February 26, 2013, 10:59:54 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.

You'd prefer the more consistent Jeff Teague?  Jeff Teague who shot 33% or worse in three of the six playoff games his Hawks played in their series loss to the Celtics last year. 

Sure, like Jeff Teague, and everyone else in the league, Rondo has some bad games (do I need to remind you of how Lebron James played in the last three games of the 2010 series against the Celtics?),  but Jeff Teague doesn't have the ability, like Rondo, to take over games and have transcendent performances.  That's why Rondo is much, much better than a nice player like Jeff Teague. 

You can call Jeff Teague "consistent" because when he's bad, he's not much worse than what anybody expects out of his talent level, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think he has anywhere near the value to his team as somebody with the talent level of Rajon Rondo.
Teague was in his third year.  Need I remind you what Rondo looked like in the playoffs in his third year.  Teague has significantly improved this year.  I would expect a jump from him this year and yet another leap next year (look at his progressions).
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 26, 2013, 11:12:00 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.

You'd prefer the more consistent Jeff Teague?  Jeff Teague who shot 33% or worse in three of the six playoff games his Hawks played in their series loss to the Celtics last year. 

Sure, like Jeff Teague, and everyone else in the league, Rondo has some bad games (do I need to remind you of how Lebron James played in the last three games of the 2010 series against the Celtics?),  but Jeff Teague doesn't have the ability, like Rondo, to take over games and have transcendent performances.  That's why Rondo is much, much better than a nice player like Jeff Teague. 

You can call Jeff Teague "consistent" because when he's bad, he's not much worse than what anybody expects out of his talent level, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think he has anywhere near the value to his team as somebody with the talent level of Rajon Rondo.
Teague was in his third year.  Need I remind you what Rondo looked like in the playoffs in his third year.  Teague has significantly improved this year.  I would expect a jump from him this year and yet another leap next year (look at his progressions).

Oh, there's absolutely no need to remind me about Rondo's playoff performance in his third year.  I remember it well.  That was the year that he put on an otherwordly performance in that exciting first round series against the Bulls.

He only averaged 16.9 points, 9.7 rebounds, 9.8 assists, and 2.5 steals per game in the 2008-2009 playoffs.   
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 11:25:01 AM
I think something like Jeff Teague (sign and trade) and Lou Williams for Rondo and Bass would make sense for both teams (assuming Josh Smith and Atlanta worked something out).

That would make no sense for us.  Why would we do that?  We get worse at PG and pick up a small SG (6"1) that we don't need that is also coming off knee wurgery.
Because his idea of good value for Rajon Rondo is getting bad as fast as possible so we can get back into the lottery.
I actually like Jeff Teague a lot.  14.5/7.1 this year at 24 while shooting 38% from 3, 88% from the line.  His offense would open up the floor for everyone else and he has gotten better every single year and will only get better.  Williams is an excellent scorer with a great contract. 

That is good value for Rondo, no matter what you guys think.

Very similar trade to the one I wanted to do last year i.e. Rondo for Conley and Mayo.  Everyone said the same thing about Conley that they are saying about Teague and Conley then took another jump.  Teague will take that jump.

  Mayo and Conley aren't worth Rondo.

Not that it really matters at this point, but this is a classic homer view of Rondo. Getting two solid young starters for Rondo is as good as the Cs will ever do.

They will never get one 'equal' player in return, because despite his flash and gaudy stats, Rondo can't score consistently or shoot FTs in the 4th Q.


  I'd say it's the classic realistic view of Rondo. It's true Rondo's not much of a free throw shooter, it's equally true that when he's healthy he's one of the best playoff performers in the league. Those "gaudy stats" have a much bigger impact on games than you think.
Rondo has some great playoff games no doubt, but he also some atrociously bad games.  No one ever talks about the bad games, you know when Rondo goes 4 of 12 without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Sixers.  Or how about the 6 of 17, again without taking a single foul shot in a 1 point loss to the Hawks.  Or how about the 4 of 14 in the 7 point loss to the Sixers.  Or the 3 of 15 game against the Heat (which Boston won).  Those are just from last year.  And sure he had the monster 44 point game (in the game 2 loss) and lots of other quality games.  The problem with Rondo though is that consistency.  Even when he turns it up a notch in the playoffs, he still has the down right awful games that cost Boston playoff victories as much as gets them wins in the monster games. 

A lesser talented, but more consistent player as well as some other value is a good trade for Rondo.  A player that even if the shot isn't going can still get to the line and hit the foul shots, would be valuable.  When Rondo is on he is on, but he is also off a lot more than most on this board want to acknowledge and when he is off, he is way off and has nothing to fall back on.

You'd prefer the more consistent Jeff Teague?  Jeff Teague who shot 33% or worse in three of the six playoff games his Hawks played in their series loss to the Celtics last year. 

Sure, like Jeff Teague, and everyone else in the league, Rondo has some bad games (do I need to remind you of how Lebron James played in the last three games of the 2010 series against the Celtics?),  but Jeff Teague doesn't have the ability, like Rondo, to take over games and have transcendent performances.  That's why Rondo is much, much better than a nice player like Jeff Teague. 

You can call Jeff Teague "consistent" because when he's bad, he's not much worse than what anybody expects out of his talent level, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think he has anywhere near the value to his team as somebody with the talent level of Rajon Rondo.
Teague was in his third year.  Need I remind you what Rondo looked like in the playoffs in his third year.  Teague has significantly improved this year.  I would expect a jump from him this year and yet another leap next year (look at his progressions).

  17/10/10? You're expecting Teague to play at that level some time in the near future? Let me know when that happens.
Title: Re: Who Would You Realistically Deal Rajon Rondo For?
Post by: ssspence on February 26, 2013, 11:53:55 AM
Teague is playing nice ball lately....

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA
Jeff Teague has gone for at least 20 points and 8 dimes in seven of Atlanta's last nine games. Upping his offseason price.