CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: anthony83 on February 21, 2013, 01:46:51 PM
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David Aldridge @daldridgetnt
Source: Wizards guard Jordan Crawford will be traded to the Celtics.
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If Fab was all it took I like it.
He will be great with Rondo.
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Stoked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Good deal by Danny if it was only Melo. Jordan Crawford can score.
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Would rather just hold onto Fab and give T-Will more of a shot. Looked good last night.
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If Fab was all it took I like it.
He will be great with Rondo.
I think Fab and a pick -- but not sure what pick.
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His issue is his attitude.
I hope he can be salvaged. I like the trade either way, worth a shot.
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If Danny Ainge gave up Fab Melo for Jordan Crawford, I am going to be absolutely gutted.
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It's mainly about Barbosa. Barbosa was huge in the wake of the Rondo injury. During the start of that win streak he had 9, 7, 12, 14, and 14 ... That's instant offense. Crawford can fill that role... 20 minutes or so off the bench... another combo guard off the bench. But I don't think Crawford is as good as Barbosa. I don't think he's as efficient. Kind of a weak shooter. So we'll see...
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They're saying its not Melo for Crawford.
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So now instead of laughing at Jordan Crawford for saying he would be better than Michael Jordan, do I hope he was right?
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so is danny thinking a buy-out big?
or does this mean Lee is gone?
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@daldridgetnt Wizards/Celts deal sending Jordan Crawford to Boston will not be for C Fab Melo, per source. Teams still working.
wut
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Hooray! I don't know why everyone is so glum. I LOVE Jamal Crawford!!!
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If Danny Ainge gave up Fab Melo for Jordan Crawford, I am going to be absolutely gutted.
Steve Bulpett @SteveBHoop now
Deal for Crawford still being finalized, but it doesn't involve Fab.
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If Melo for Crawford, absolute TRASH.
First rule of trades, never trade big for small unless its Chris Paul. Second, never overpay for scoring guards as they are a dime a dozen..
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Not Sully?
Barbosa and Collins?
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Celtics will send the Leandro Barbosa expiring contract to the Wizards for Jordan Crawford, league source tells Y! Sports.
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@daldridgetnt Wizards/Celts deal sending Jordan Crawford to Boston will not be for C Fab Melo, per source. Teams still working.
wut
Are we sure that doens't just mean that melo is getting routed to a 3rd team?
I'm getting a kick out of people worrying about us giving up that stiff. He was a bottom of the 1st round pick... borderline 2nd round pick. If we can give him up for something that can help us fill Barbosa's role, you probably do.
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If Danny Ainge gave up Fab Melo for Jordan Crawford, I am going to be absolutely gutted.
Steve Bulpett @SteveBHoop now
Deal for Crawford still being finalized, but it doesn't involve Fab.
It's for Barbosa, according to Wojo. Interesting, because the salaries don't seem to work.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Celtics will send the Leandro Barbosa expiring contract to the Wizards for Jordan Crawford, league source tells Y! Sports.
wow..so they basically dumped Crawford? can't complain about that
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Hooray! I don't know why everyone is so glum. I LOVE Jamal Crawford!!!
It's not Jamal. It's jordan.
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I love Gary Washburn:
NBA source says Fab Melo to #wizards for Jordan Crawford now a mere formality #celtics #wizards
Want to bet his source is Sherrod?
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Very interesting that the deal does not involve Melo.
Means that two of the Wilcox/Barbosa/Collins group may be outgoing, or a bigger salary may be involved.
I bet both teams are trying to bring a third team in to help broker the deal.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Celtics will send the Leandro Barbosa expiring contract to the Wizards for Jordan Crawford, league source tells Y! Sports.
That is fine. Make use of that dead roster spot. Crawford will be a useful fifth guard.
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yeah like i said... a replacement for Barbosa.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Celtics will send the Leandro Barbosa expiring contract to the Wizards for Jordan Crawford, league source tells Y! Sports.
wow..so they basically dumped Crawford? can't complain about that
I'm sure they got a pick for their trouble.
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If Danny Ainge gave up Fab Melo for Jordan Crawford, I am going to be absolutely gutted.
Steve Bulpett @SteveBHoop now
Deal for Crawford still being finalized, but it doesn't involve Fab.
It's for Barbosa, according to Wojo. Interesting, because the salaries don't seem to work.
They both seem to make almost the same money according to hoopshype (so does Fab it looks like).
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I heard Danny's throwing in Greg Kite's expiring contract to make it work.
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@daldridgetnt Wizards/Celts deal sending Jordan Crawford to Boston will not be for C Fab Melo, per source. Teams still working.
wut
Are we sure that doens't just mean that melo is getting routed to a 3rd team?
I'm getting a kick out of people worrying about us giving up that stiff. He was a bottom of the 1st round pick... borderline 2nd round pick. If we can give him up for something that can help us fill Barbosa's role, you probably do.
Alright we get it man you don't like Fab. Guess what I think Avery Bradley is a bench player and hugely overrated on this board. Who cares?
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Great deal if all it costs us is Barbosa.
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So do the numbers match or not between Crawford and Barbosa? Can't work the trade machine so not sure.
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Very interesting that the deal does not involve Melo.
Means that two of the Wilcox/Barbosa/Collins group may be outgoing, or a bigger salary may be involved.
I bet both teams are trying to bring a third team in to help broker the deal.
I think the actual salaries match fine. The $854k listed as Barbosa's salary is his salary for cap purposes, but his actual salary is over $1 million. I think that actual salary can be included in the deal for purposes of matching salaries.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Celtics will send the Leandro Barbosa expiring contract to the Wizards for Jordan Crawford, league source tells Y! Sports.
That is fine. Make use of that dead roster spot. Crawford will be a useful fifth guard.
5th guard? I'd say he's fourth in line, unless you think Wlliams is in front of him?
Did we just get him for Barbosa straight up? If so, that's a steal.
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Good. Now we can spin Danny's draft day mistake from last summer - Melo - for something else. Maybe a bag of balls.
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I don't like it. It's the ever-elusive subtraction by addition.
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For the record, the trade does NOT work. Crawford makes 30k too much. So something else is up.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/
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Very interesting that the deal does not involve Melo.
Means that two of the Wilcox/Barbosa/Collins group may be outgoing, or a bigger salary may be involved.
I bet both teams are trying to bring a third team in to help broker the deal.
I think the actual salaries match fine. The $854k listed as Barbosa's salary is his salary for cap purposes, but his actual salary is over $1 million. I think that actual salary can be included in the deal for purposes of matching salaries.
Aha. Did not know that about Barbosa's deal.
If Ainge didn't have to give up a 1st rounder, I'm totally on board with the deal.
Crawford is under contract for next season as well, for relatively cheap. Could be a trade chip for a future deal after this season if he doesn't fit in.
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meh..crawford is free....but he adds a practice body and not much else...he and williams are pretty just worthless to this team
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Very interesting that the deal does not involve Melo.
Means that two of the Wilcox/Barbosa/Collins group may be outgoing, or a bigger salary may be involved.
I bet both teams are trying to bring a third team in to help broker the deal.
I think the actual salaries match fine. The $854k listed as Barbosa's salary is his salary for cap purposes, but his actual salary is over $1 million. I think that actual salary can be included in the deal for purposes of matching salaries.
It counts as 854k, but can bring back 125% + 100k, so it works just fine.
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Crawfords game and style are similar to barbosa. I like the deal seeing as how barbosa can't play. Trade machine said it failed. Not sure this was addressed.
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For the record, Crawford is currently the best PG on the team. I can easily see him starting over Bradley if he's got his head screwed straight.
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Very interesting that the deal does not involve Melo.
Means that two of the Wilcox/Barbosa/Collins group may be outgoing, or a bigger salary may be involved.
I bet both teams are trying to bring a third team in to help broker the deal.
I think the actual salaries match fine. The $854k listed as Barbosa's salary is his salary for cap purposes, but his actual salary is over $1 million. I think that actual salary can be included in the deal for purposes of matching salaries.
It counts as 854k, but can bring back 125% + 100k, so it works just fine.
$854k x 1.25% + $100k falls just short of Crawford's reported salary.
Barbosa's actual salary of around $1.2 million matches fine, though.
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Very interesting that the deal does not involve Melo.
Means that two of the Wilcox/Barbosa/Collins group may be outgoing, or a bigger salary may be involved.
I bet both teams are trying to bring a third team in to help broker the deal.
I think the actual salaries match fine. The $854k listed as Barbosa's salary is his salary for cap purposes, but his actual salary is over $1 million. I think that actual salary can be included in the deal for purposes of matching salaries.
It counts as 854k, but can bring back 125% + 100k, so it works just fine.
$854k x 1.25% + $100k falls just short of Crawford's reported salary.
Barbosa's actual salary of around $1.2 million matches fine, though.
Interesting that his actual salary does not match hi cap salary. And interesting that his cap salary would not be the one of record for trades.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Celtics will send the Leandro Barbosa expiring contract to the Wizards for Jordan Crawford, league source tells Y! Sports.
That is fine. Make use of that dead roster spot. Crawford will be a useful fifth guard.
5th guard? I'd say he's fourth in line, unless you think Wlliams is in front of him?
Did we just get him for Barbosa straight up? If so, that's a steal.
Yeah, I think T-Williams is in front of him. I think his size, defense and rebounding is more important than Crawford's streaky scoring.
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Why is everyone hating on this guy ? 13 ppg is better than all 3 of our guards , jeff green and is 3rd most on our team ...
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Celtics will send the Leandro Barbosa expiring contract to the Wizards for Jordan Crawford, league source tells Y! Sports.
That is fine. Make use of that dead roster spot. Crawford will be a useful fifth guard.
5th guard? I'd say he's fourth in line, unless you think Wlliams is in front of him?
Did we just get him for Barbosa straight up? If so, that's a steal.
Yeah, I think T-Williams is in front of him. I think his size, defense and rebounding is more important than Crawford's streaky scoring.
Williams isn't even an NBA player. The only person he should be in front of is someone like me.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Celtics will send the Leandro Barbosa expiring contract to the Wizards for Jordan Crawford, league source tells Y! Sports.
That is fine. Make use of that dead roster spot. Crawford will be a useful fifth guard.
5th guard? I'd say he's fourth in line, unless you think Wlliams is in front of him?
Did we just get him for Barbosa straight up? If so, that's a steal.
Yeah, I think T-Williams is in front of him. I think his size, defense and rebounding is more important than Crawford's streaky scoring.
Williams isn't even an NBA player. The only person he should be in front of is someone like me.
TP...agree 100 percent
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Interesting that his actual salary does not match hi cap salary. And interesting that his cap salary would not be the one of record for trades.
That's the case for all players with more than 2 years experience who are playing on minimum contracts. The league subsidizes part of the salary, only counting $854k against the cap (this season).
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]Interesting that his actual salary does not match hi cap salary. And interesting that his cap salary would not be the one of record for trades.
The league reimburses teams for salary above the minimum of a two-year player so that teams don't discriminate against older players to save money.
However, the CBA FAQ states (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84): "Teams trading away minimum-salary players do count their salaries (the portion not paid by the league -- see question number 16) as outgoing salary when comparing salaries for trade."
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"Jordan Crawford is 1 of 7 players averaging 18 pts, 5 ast & 4 rebs per 36 min. (Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Harden, Westbrook, Manu)." Anybody wanna research this to see if its true.
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Crawford's own and opponent PER as a PG are actually very good - much better than when he's at SG.
http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS5.HTM
If you can keep him from taking bad shots (which is more likely with the discipline of the Celtics' offense than with the Wiz), he could be pretty productive.
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Michael Lee @MrMichaelLee 1 minute ago
League source said #wizards might get another player currently on BOS roster in addition to Leandro Barbosa, so...
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Crawford's own and opponent PER as a PG are actually very good - much better than when he's at SG.
http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS5.HTM
If you can keep him from taking bad shots (which is more likely with the discipline of the Celtics' offense than with the Wiz), he could be pretty productive.
I can easily see him moving into the starting lineup, where we can use one more scorer who can handle the ball.
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"Jordan Crawford is 1 of 7 players averaging 18 pts, 5 ast & 4 rebs per 36 min. (Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Harden, Westbrook, Manu)." Anybody wanna research this to see if its true.
It's true, but....
Chris Paul misses by 0.3 rebounds. John Wall misses by 0.1 points. Stephen Curry misses by 0.1 rebounds. Kyrie Irving misses by 0.2 rebounds. Ramon Sessions misses by 0.1 points. Paul Pierce misses by 0.3 assists. Heck, Nate Robinson is short by half a rebound.
Still, being one of 23 players averaging at least 17 points, 4 assists, and 3 rebounds per 36 minutes isn't bad.
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why would a bad team like the wiz just give away a guy averaging 13 ppg?
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An interesting deal, to say the least.
I laud Danny.
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why would a bad team like the wiz just give away a guy averaging 13 ppg?
Because he causes more damage to his team than he helps them.
He is like a miniature version of Monta Ellis. Unable to play the PG position because he cannot run a team and unable to play his natural position at SG because he cannot defend opposing SGs.
Too inefficient offensively. Too vulnerable defensively. Streaky player who more often hurts his team than he helps them.
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Woj just reported Jason Collins is in the deal.
Hope Danny has a plan for a replacement big.
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Hurray, one less big!
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If Collins is in the deal who backs up KG?
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As if the C's couldn't get any smaller. Collins is a scrub but the size of this team now is laughable.
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Can't understand why we included Collins, does he really save that much tax money? Won't we just need to replace him with another veteran at a similar salary?
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Can't understand why we included Collins, does he really save that much tax money? Won't we just need to replace him with another veteran at a similar salary?
He creates more room under the hard cap, while also creates a second open roster spot to sign someone better than him.
This allows us to use some or all of the bi-ennial exception.
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Brian Scalabrine @Scalabrine now
"@celticsblog: the two best moments of having Jason Collins on your team are the day you sign him and the day you trade him." That's BS
Wasn't me, Scal.
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Can't understand why we included Collins, does he really save that much tax money? Won't we just need to replace him with another veteran at a similar salary?
He creates more room under the hard cap, while also creates a second open roster spot to sign someone better than him.
This allows us to use some or all of the bi-ennial exception.
Kenyon Martin?
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Brian Scalabrine @Scalabrine now
"@celticsblog: the two best moments of having Jason Collins on your team are the day you sign him and the day you trade him." That's BS
Wasn't me, Scal.
Haha, saw that - Scal calling out Jeff, nice.
I never hated Collins either - the problem was he's an excellent 5th big that we were asking to be a 3rd big. He's solid at what he is, but he's never going to be some low-post playmaker.
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I'm the least bit of a Collins fan, but I hope there's some sort of replacement or upgrade plan here.
He was a big body and while I'm not usually a big fan of just having players because they are large, with our team it was much needed.
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That, or he was needed for salary purposes.
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I'm the least bit of a Collins fan, but I hope there's some sort of replacement or upgrade plan here.
He was a big body and while I'm not usually a big fan of just having players because they are large, with our team it was much needed.
I liked Collins :'(
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I'm the least bit of a Collins fan, but I hope there's some sort of replacement or upgrade plan here.
He was a big body and while I'm not usually a big fan of just having players because they are large, with our team it was much needed.
I liked Collins :'(
To me he was always more or less just a oaf. To be blunt.
But he did seem to be pretty smart out there and he rotated pretty well on defense. And he is big.
But his rebounding is just inexplicably bad to me. If he just did that I would like him much more.
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That, or he was needed for salary purposes.
This is my guess. The deal did not work according to the trade machine as announced.
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If Collins is in the deal who backs up KG?
The Fab Melo era has begun, I guess. Kid will have to swim or sink in a hurry.
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Logical Celtics thinking. Just watch your team get killed on the boards and in the paint last night? No worries. Just ship out all the capable bigs you have!
Don't understand why they think they can compete like this. Ultimate palm to the forehead moment this one.
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Logical Celtics thinking. Just watch your team get killed on the boards and in the paint last night? No worries. Just ship out all the capable bigs you have!
Jason Collins was the worst rebounder on the team. No other big was shipped out.
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This move was a business move not a basketball move. It saves $600,000, might get the C's under the luxury tax, and/or open more space under the hard cap.
It has nothing to do with bigs or guards or anything else. It was business and Danny is going to give Williams and Crawford to Doc and tell him:
"Just make it work until the end of the year. If you can make the playoffs and we can fill the building a couple times, great. If not, no biggie, we weren't going to win it all without Rondo anyway. Let's get through this year and we will start fresh next."
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This move was a business move not a basketball move. It saves $600,000, might get the C's under the luxury tax, and/or open more space under the hard cap.
It has nothing to do with bigs or guards or anything else. It was business and Danny is going to give Williams and Crawford to Doc and tell him:
"Just make it work until the end of the year. If you can make the playoffs and we can fill the building a couple times, great. If not, no biggie, we weren't going to win it all without Rondo anyway. Let's get through this year and we will start fresh next."
Pretty much this.
But now Fab has to play legit minutes unless something changes. Which is scary. But oh well.
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But now Fab has to play legit minutes unless something changes. Which is scary. But oh well.
I used to think Collins was a crafty veteran who plays solid positional defense, but frankly, after his most recent outings, I don't see how Melo can be substantially worse.
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"Jordan Crawford is 1 of 7 players averaging 18 pts, 5 ast & 4 rebs per 36 min. (Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Harden, Westbrook, Manu)." Anybody wanna research this to see if its true.
It's true, but....
Chris Paul misses by 0.3 rebounds. John Wall misses by 0.1 points. Stephen Curry misses by 0.1 rebounds. Kyrie Irving misses by 0.2 rebounds. Ramon Sessions misses by 0.1 points. Paul Pierce misses by 0.3 assists. Heck, Nate Robinson is short by half a rebound.
Still, being one of 23 players averaging at least 17 points, 4 assists, and 3 rebounds per 36 minutes isn't bad.
What it really means is that he's a very good rebounder at the guard spot. He's averaging 5.7 per 48 minutes.
The only PGs with better rebounding numbers are Shumpert, Westbrook, Vasquez, Kidd and Bledsoe.
There are even only 10 or so SGs who rebound at a better rate - Kobe, Harden, Sefolosha, TA, Iggy etc.
So look at it this way - if our most pressing need was a rebounding big, at least we got a rebounding small!
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This move was a business move not a basketball move. It saves $600,000, might get the C's under the luxury tax, and/or open more space under the hard cap.
It has nothing to do with bigs or guards or anything else. It was business and Danny is going to give Williams and Crawford to Doc and tell him:
"Just make it work until the end of the year. If you can make the playoffs and we can fill the building a couple times, great. If not, no biggie, we weren't going to win it all without Rondo anyway. Let's get through this year and we will start fresh next."
But aren't we going to sign two players to fill out the roster that make more than that $600k combined?
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But now Fab has to play legit minutes unless something changes. Which is scary. But oh well.
I used to think Collins was a crafty veteran who plays solid positional defense, but frankly, after his most recent outings, I don't see how Melo can be substantially worse.
ha I still give him credit for solid enough D but his lack of rebounding, as I said, is just confusing.
I hope you're right about Fab though I guess you probably aren't wrong. I just hope Fab doesn't make bonehead plays.
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This move was a business move not a basketball move. It saves $600,000, might get the C's under the luxury tax, and/or open more space under the hard cap.
It has nothing to do with bigs or guards or anything else. It was business and Danny is going to give Williams and Crawford to Doc and tell him:
"Just make it work until the end of the year. If you can make the playoffs and we can fill the building a couple times, great. If not, no biggie, we weren't going to win it all without Rondo anyway. Let's get through this year and we will start fresh next."
But aren't we going to sign two players to fill out the roster that make more than that $600k combined?
Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Bass
KG
Green
Lee
Terry
Wilcox
Sullinger
Melo
Williams
Crawford
If Williams isn't retained, and I don't think he will be, they still have 12 players on the roster. That meets league minimum requirements. They don't need to sign anyone else.
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This move was a business move not a basketball move. It saves $600,000, might get the C's under the luxury tax, and/or open more space under the hard cap.
It has nothing to do with bigs or guards or anything else. It was business and Danny is going to give Williams and Crawford to Doc and tell him:
"Just make it work until the end of the year. If you can make the playoffs and we can fill the building a couple times, great. If not, no biggie, we weren't going to win it all without Rondo anyway. Let's get through this year and we will start fresh next."
But aren't we going to sign two players to fill out the roster that make more than that $600k combined?
Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Bass
KG
Green
Lee
Terry
Wilcox
Sullinger
Melo
Williams
Crawford
If Williams isn't retained, and I don't think he will be, they still have 12 players on the roster. That meets league minimum requirements. They don't need to sign anyone else.
With Sullinger/Rondo injured and KG/Pierce not being able to play too many minutes due to age I would be shocked if they didn't sign anyone else.
If you would care to make a tp wager on it I would be game.
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This move was a business move not a basketball move. It saves $600,000, might get the C's under the luxury tax, and/or open more space under the hard cap.
It has nothing to do with bigs or guards or anything else. It was business and Danny is going to give Williams and Crawford to Doc and tell him:
"Just make it work until the end of the year. If you can make the playoffs and we can fill the building a couple times, great. If not, no biggie, we weren't going to win it all without Rondo anyway. Let's get through this year and we will start fresh next."
But aren't we going to sign two players to fill out the roster that make more than that $600k combined?
Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Bass
KG
Green
Lee
Terry
Wilcox
Sullinger
Melo
Williams
Crawford
If Williams isn't retained, and I don't think he will be, they still have 12 players on the roster. That meets league minimum requirements. They don't need to sign anyone else.
For whatever it's worth, the new league minimum roster size is now 13. I think it may have been 12 under the last CBA, but it's 13 now.
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Pretty sure Crawford played pg for the Wiz when Wall was out, and he put up some nice stats. Hopefully he works out here
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We need a big. Melo isn't ready leaving only kg, bass, Wilcox, and at times green.
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This move was a business move not a basketball move. It saves $600,000, might get the C's under the luxury tax, and/or open more space under the hard cap.
It has nothing to do with bigs or guards or anything else. It was business and Danny is going to give Williams and Crawford to Doc and tell him:
"Just make it work until the end of the year. If you can make the playoffs and we can fill the building a couple times, great. If not, no biggie, we weren't going to win it all without Rondo anyway. Let's get through this year and we will start fresh next."
But aren't we going to sign two players to fill out the roster that make more than that $600k combined?
Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Bass
KG
Green
Lee
Terry
Wilcox
Sullinger
Melo
Williams
Crawford
If Williams isn't retained, and I don't think he will be, they still have 12 players on the roster. That meets league minimum requirements. They don't need to sign anyone else.
For whatever it's worth, the new league minimum roster size is now 13. I think it may have been 12 under the last CBA, but it's 13 now.
Then I guess if Williams doesn't get signed the rest of the season, someone besides him will.
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I'm just glad we didn't get rid of Fab Melo.
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why would a bad team like the wiz just give away a guy averaging 13 ppg?
He was mouthing off in the locker room.
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*puts green goggles on*
Banner 18 here we come baby! Crawford!!
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Crawford and T-Will two very skilled young athletic players. Bradley's and Terry's limitations showed last night. We got abused by Nash. Lee and T-Will were the only guards who looked like they could play with the Lakers (a 500 team).
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Crawford and T-Will two very skilled young athletic players. Bradley's and Terry's limitations showed last night. We got abused by Nash. Lee and T-Will were the only guards who looked like they could play with the Lakers (a 500 team).
I concur. T-Will had a great possession on Kobe too
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why would a bad team like the wiz just give away a guy averaging 13 ppg?
Because he causes more damage to his team than he helps them.
He is like a miniature version of Monta Ellis. Unable to play the PG position because he cannot run a team and unable to play his natural position at SG because he cannot defend opposing SGs.
Too inefficient offensively. Too vulnerable defensively. Streaky player who more often hurts his team than he helps them.
I've never been huge on +/- stats, since they depend on who you see playing time with, game situations, etc..., but I'm a little alarmed that the Wizards are substantially worse with Jordan Crawford on the floor, 3 years in a row. The Wizards have been a pretty bad team the last 3 years.
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I like the pickup. You want a Barbosa replacement? Crawford is as close as you get. The guy is lightning fast towards the basket and can shoot the three. He can pass also but chooses to try to do it on his own too much.
But worse case you get a guy in who can get you 6 to 8 points in a blur.
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why would a bad team like the wiz just give away a guy averaging 13 ppg?
Because he causes more damage to his team than he helps them.
He is like a miniature version of Monta Ellis. Unable to play the PG position because he cannot run a team and unable to play his natural position at SG because he cannot defend opposing SGs.
Too inefficient offensively. Too vulnerable defensively. Streaky player who more often hurts his team than he helps them.
I've never been huge on +/- stats, since they depend on who you see playing time with, game situations, etc..., but I'm a little alarmed that the Wizards are substantially worse with Jordan Crawford on the floor, 3 years in a row. The Wizards have been a pretty bad team the last 3 years.
Your +/- may suffer when you're backing up John Wall on what's otherwise a horrible team.
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why would a bad team like the wiz just give away a guy averaging 13 ppg?
Because he causes more damage to his team than he helps them.
He is like a miniature version of Monta Ellis. Unable to play the PG position because he cannot run a team and unable to play his natural position at SG because he cannot defend opposing SGs.
Too inefficient offensively. Too vulnerable defensively. Streaky player who more often hurts his team than he helps them.
I've never been huge on +/- stats, since they depend on who you see playing time with, game situations, etc..., but I'm a little alarmed that the Wizards are substantially worse with Jordan Crawford on the floor, 3 years in a row. The Wizards have been a pretty bad team the last 3 years.
Your +/- may suffer when you're backing up John Wall on what's otherwise a horrible team.
It may, but that doesn't really seem to be the problem with Crawford.
Wall has missed about a third of the Wizards games so far in 2012-2013, so it isn't only units with John Wall that are outperforming units with Crawford. Units with AJ Price at point guard and units with Bradley Beal at point guard have outperformed units with Jordan Crawford.
And in 2011-2012 and 2010-2011, Jordan Crawford played most of his minutes with John Wall on the floor, via 82games.com.
The team has been worse with him on the floor for 3 years running, even when he is playing with Wall and even when compared to point guards that aren't Wall.
This is particularly alarming, because as you have noted, the Wizards are a horrible team. AJ Price isn't setting the bar very high.
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You simply cannot extrapolate ANYTHING from Wizard stats this year with Wall being out so much and Nene just now getting to be a SHELL of his former self and Beal building houses with his bricks the first 1/3 of the year.
If anyone does not think that we just STOLE him, you are blind.
Smitty77
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You simply cannot extrapolate ANYTHING from Wizard stats this year with Wall being out so much and Nene just now getting to be a SHELL of his former self and Beal building houses with his bricks the first 1/3 of the year.
If anyone does not think that we just STOLE him, you are blind.
Smitty77
I almost gave the guy a thread and highlight vids a couple times 2day...
WE GAVE UP BARBOSA'S NONE PLAYING BODY AND COLLINS!!! We STOLE him!!!
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I'm glad with we got Crawford. If he doesn't pan out, not much lost.
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You simply cannot extrapolate ANYTHING from Wizard stats this year with Wall being out so much and Nene just now getting to be a SHELL of his former self and Beal building houses with his bricks the first 1/3 of the year.
If anyone does not think that we just STOLE him, you are blind.
Smitty77
Given how we gave up pretty much nothing for him, it's hard not to consider him a steal. The question now is how good is he going to be in a more structured environment where people are held accountable. He apparently griped about his role when Wall was back and he got relegated to the bench.
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Judging by my observations, this guy is marginally passing more than Nick Young.
Just saying.
Oh, on another note, we just got back a new E'Twaun Moore for our team. Nice.
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I am happy with the move. I was willing to go either way with a breakup or a another run. I love the C's but decent player with nothing gave up. I do not think Barbosa would have got signed next year.
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Judging by my observations, this guy is marginally passing more than Nick Young.
Just saying.
He would have second most assists on our team. What??
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I am happy with the move. I was willing to go either way with a breakup or a another run. I love the C's but decent player with nothing gave up. I do not think Barbosa would have got signed next year.
For what it's worth, Wizards fans are irate and feel that Grunfeld got fleeced on this one.
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T-Will and Crawford. Finally two people who can create their own shot besides Pierce!!!
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I am happy with the move. I was willing to go either way with a breakup or a another run. I love the C's but decent player with nothing gave up. I do not think Barbosa would have got signed next year.
We can still sign him next season if he wants to be here (Doc wants him back)!
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we gave up nothing to get a better player
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Is Crawford a FA this summer??
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I am happy with the move. I was willing to go either way with a breakup or a another run. I love the C's but decent player with nothing gave up. I do not think Barbosa would have got signed next year.
For what it's worth, Wizards fans are irate and feel that Grunfeld got fleeced on this one.
He did. He got two 30+ bench players, one whose ACL is destroyed and out for the year, for a young guy that for all his problems can at least play basketball.
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He would have second most assists on our team. What??
Probably. Behind the captain that is.
I am happy with the move. I was willing to go either way with a breakup or a another run. I love the C's but decent player with nothing gave up. I do not think Barbosa would have got signed next year.
For what it's worth, Wizards fans are irate and feel that Grunfeld got fleeced on this one.
He did. He got two 30+ bench players, one whose ACL is destroyed and out for the year, for a young guy that for all his problems can at least play basketball.
He was just going to sub Beal for minimal minutes for the rest of the way in any case.
Still saying, this move is practically negligible, basketball-wise. If he was some sort of real gem, no way the Wizards would let him go with that sort of package.
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Doesn't this potentially get us below the luxury tax as well??
Smitty77
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He would have second most assists on our team. What??
Probably. Behind the captain that is.
I am happy with the move. I was willing to go either way with a breakup or a another run. I love the C's but decent player with nothing gave up. I do not think Barbosa would have got signed next year.
For what it's worth, Wizards fans are irate and feel that Grunfeld got fleeced on this one.
He did. He got two 30+ bench players, one whose ACL is destroyed and out for the year, for a young guy that for all his problems can at least play basketball.
He was just going to sub Beal for minimal minutes for the rest of the way in any case.
Still saying, this move is practically negligible, basketball-wise. If he was some sort of real gem, no way the Wizards would let him go with that sort of package.
LOL, you should be laughing like I am as soon as you got ready to type it (bold part)!!!
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Oh, on another note, we just got back a new E'Twaun Moore for our team. Nice.
This is just ignorant. Moore is probably not even an NBA level player, Crawford is a very talented scorer. He has certain obvious flaws that hold him back, but comparing him with E'Twaun is a joke.
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Does anyone recall (and if so, are you willing to admit it) if they wanted the Celtics to draft Crawford back in 2010 or at least had him ahead of Avery Bradley on their list?
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Oh, on another note, we just got back a new E'Twaun Moore for our team. Nice.
This is just ignorant. Moore is probably not even an NBA level player, Crawford is a very talented scorer. He has certain obvious flaws that hold him back, but comparing him with E'Twaun is a joke.
8.4/2.6/2.2 is still a borderline NBA player.
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Doesn't this potentially get us below the luxury tax as well??
Smitty77
I don't believe it shaved off enough salary. I think we're still about $800k over.
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This is a good move. Crawford isn't perfect, but he's an NBA talent, which is something more than can be said for most of our other options out there. And we got him for essentially nothing.
Also, I think the KG factor could make a big difference. The Wizards are hardly a model NBA franchise, and I think playing with vets who work can potentially make a difference with him.
Think about how Antoine Walker's career might've been different had he not been drafted into the cesspool that was the 1996 Celtics. Not that Crawford is Walker, but I do think that the shift in environment could make a difference.
I also think a lot of the frustration about Crawford is because people got caught up with unrealistic trade rumors that were never going to happen. And when they didn't, people are disappointed that the reality didn't match the fantasy.
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He was just going to sub Beal for minimal minutes for the rest of the way in any case.
Still saying, this move is practically negligible, basketball-wise. If he was some sort of real gem, no way the Wizards would let him go with that sort of package.
It's true that Crawford wasn't going to play (so the trade doesn't affect team performance).
But to trade a player with his talent, signed on a team-friendly contract, for pretty much nothing is just bad management.
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As far as value goes, this trade was a steal. We gave up a guy who's out for the year and a guy who shouldn't be in the league anymore in exchange for a young prospect on a rookie deal. Are you kidding me?
As far as talent, I'm not a fan. Crawford can certainly put the ball in the basket, but he's rather inefficient. His defense is pretty poor, too, and he's not a spectacular athlete either. However, this move does shore up our backcourt rotation, so we at least have a passable ten-man rotation of:
Bradley Terry
Lee Crawford
Pierce Williams
Bass Green
Garnett Wilcox
Yes, for the time being, Jeff will be playing PF a lot.
Overall, don't love the trade, but Danny did a great job of unloading dead weight (well, maybe it would have been nice to still have Collins) for cheap talent.
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LOL, you should be laughing like I am as soon as you got ready to type it (bold part)!!!
Ah, that's right, that's right. This was just one bad way to put it. The Wizards franchise is doomed as it is now.
Oh, on another note, we just got back a new E'Twaun Moore for our team. Nice.
This is just ignorant. Moore is probably not even an NBA level player, Crawford is a very talented scorer. He has certain obvious flaws that hold him back, but comparing him with E'Twaun is a joke.
Statistically speaking, Moore isn't that much behind Crawford.
Anyway, I have seen Jordan Crawford play. I really don't think his scoring style fits ball movement a bit, but if he proves me wrong -for which he would first need to shoot at least 45% from the field-, I'll happily admit getting it wrong.
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I also think a lot of the frustration about Crawford is because people got caught up with unrealistic trade rumors that were never going to happen. And when they didn't, people are disappointed that the reality didn't match the fantasy.
While I generally agree with the Yay Points thesis put forward at Wages of Win, just think about where Crawford ranks in ppg among players traded at or near the deadline. So, Ainge probably did more to address his team's needs (and the team has needs for depth at all positions) than most GMs without giving away anything significant.
The best case scenario is that Crawford plays well enough and with a good attitude in a bench role so that he becomes a trade asset as other teams think that his problem was mainly being in a dysfunctional Wizards environment. The worst case scenario is that Crawford plays well enough to get a big contract with the Celtics that he then fails to earn in Blount-like fashion.
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I wonder who will get more minutes between him and Williams.
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Can we get Barbosa back next season?
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Didnt realize Crawford averaged 16 pts a game his 2nd year in the league, and averages 13.4 as a career average. He probably won't get the same shot opportunities here but if he takes smart shots and plays well with the bench unit he could average double digits for us.
He was also the Wiz pg when Wall was out
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I wonder who will get more minutes between him and Williams.
Depends on the team's next injury.
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Can we get Barbosa back next season?
He will be a FA, yes! I bet if we have the money he wants (we will cuz all he'll get is vet min after this injury) and he's healthy, we do it no brainer, assuming he wants to be back! It's like what we did with Quis.
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As far as value goes, this trade was a steal. We gave up a guy who's out for the year and a guy who shouldn't be in the league anymore in exchange for a young prospect on a rookie deal. Are you kidding me?
As far as talent, I'm not a fan. Crawford can certainly put the ball in the basket, but he's rather inefficient. His defense is pretty poor, too, and he's not a spectacular athlete either. However, this move does shore up our backcourt rotation, so we at least have a passable ten-man rotation of:
Bradley Terry
Lee Crawford
Pierce Williams
Bass Green
Garnett Wilcox
Yes, for the time being, Jeff will be playing PF a lot.
Overall, don't love the trade, but Danny did a great job of unloading dead weight (well, maybe it would have been nice to still have Collins) for cheap talent.
Certainly not the lineup that we all envisioned; but not bad given the circumstances. The lineups above are way undersized, but all of these guys can play multiple positions and a big man could solve that pretty quick.
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Haha! I just realized Jordan Crawford is the kid from back when that dunked over LeBron in that Nike camp video that LeBron tried to cover up.
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Haha! I just realized Jordan Crawford is the kid from back when that dunked over LeBron in that Nike camp video that LeBron tried to cover up.
Essentially his only highlight ;D
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Haha! I just realized Jordan Crawford is the kid from back when that dunked over LeBron in that Nike camp video that LeBron tried to cover up.
Essentially his only highlight ;D
I remember picking him up for my fantasy team late in his rookie season. He went on a hot streak where he averaged close to 20 points per night. (He was a pretty spotty shooter, though.)
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I wonder who will get more minutes between him and Williams.
Is Williams on a 10 day? If do I wouldn't be surprised if he is cut.
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He's been an inefficient scorer, but to get a guy who can score 13 ppg in 26 minutes over his career for peanuts is a chance worth taking.
On the bright side, his shooting percentage has been slowly trending upward, on a garbage squad. On a more tightly controlled team, I hope he becomes a more efficient scorer.
Compared to Jason Terry this season, in two less mpg, he's scoring 3 more ppg, and one more rebound and assist, while shooting worse from the field and from three. JC should benefit from playing with better shooters here in Boston, and if he makes it until next year, will benefit from playing with a good set up man in Rondo.
Small move, but could be a great move by Ainge. At a minimum, the Cs will be more entertaining this year, good and bad.
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Yeah but do you see him getting 26 mpg here? I don't he wont be starting over Clee and he only has so much time to learn the system. I hope i am wrong but i see him topping out around 8-9 ppg and around 18 mpg. But we'll see. I hope this kid turns out to just be a pure scorer that we need badly.
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I wonder who will get more minutes between him and Williams.
Is Williams on a 10 day? If do I wouldn't be surprised if he is cut.
Yes I believe he is on a 10-day so expect Doc to play him this coming week.
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Yeah but do you see him getting 26 mpg here? I don't he wont be starting over Clee and he only has so much time to learn the system. I hope i am wrong but i see him topping out around 8-9 ppg and around 18 mpg. But we'll see. I hope this kid turns out to just be a pure scorer that we need badly.
If you can score a point every two minutes, there's a place for you somewhere in the NBA. If the Cs can get 9 points out of JC in 18 minutes, they will be thrilled.
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I don't see how anyone can be disappointed with this deal on its own.
20/5/5 per 40 minutes, 24 years old, improved both years in the league, never played for a decent team. He may even be a good cross-matchup guy with Bradley.
Now, I wouldn't have paid a steep price for him considering the attitude issues and defense, but getting him pretty much for free is hard to argue with IMO.
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Statistically, Jordan Crawford looks like a cheaper Ben Gordon, which I don't think you should want as a starter, but could be acceptable in a bench role.
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Sorry if this has already been mentioned; but isn't Jordan Crawford just about as close to being the same player as Marshon Brooks as you can get and we didn't have to give up anything to get him. True the character issues may not match up in Crawford's favor.
We basically got half of the Pierce trade for next to nothing. You add in T-Will to make up for Crawford's defensive liabilities and it is a decent move given limitations on his ability/desire to move Garnet and Pierce.
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Can't understand why we included Collins, does he really save that much tax money? Won't we just need to replace him with another veteran at a similar salary?
Someone else probably told you but I have no doubt Danny added Collins so Doc couldn't play him anymore
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This is a great deal, which will potentially have some very positive repercussions for our trade options during free-agency or next year's trade deadline. Meaning, willingness to trade Lee or Terry for the big people are coveting. Even more so, if Williams pans out and willing to stay for cheap.
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For some reason this reminds me of when we got Calbert Cheaney :)
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I will tell you one thing..... When ever we played the Wizard lately Tommy & Mike have actually said they liked Crawford and that he has "killed us" scoring..... They both said they liked his scoring the ball ability
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Sorry if this has already been mentioned; but isn't Jordan Crawford just about as close to being the same player as Marshon Brooks as you can get and we didn't have to give up anything to get him. True the character issues may not match up in Crawford's favor.
We basically got half of the Pierce trade for next to nothing. You add in T-Will to make up for Crawford's defensive liabilities and it is a decent move given limitations on his ability/desire to move Garnet and Pierce.
I'd hazard a guess that Crawford has the potential to be better than Brooks solely because of his positional versatility: he can play PG in a pinch.
But yes, I think that overall that's a fair assessment.
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A. Sherrod Blakely @SherrodbCSN
#CelticsTalk: Jordan Crawford is in Phoenix with the #Celtics and will likely be in uniform tonight vs the #Suns.
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A. Sherrod Blakely @SherrodbCSN
#CelticsTalk: Jordan Crawford is in Phoenix with the #Celtics and will likely be in uniform tonight vs the #Suns.
Good news. They could certainly use the body right now.
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A. Sherrod Blakely @SherrodbCSN
#CelticsTalk: Jordan Crawford is in Phoenix with the #Celtics and will likely be in uniform tonight vs the #Suns.
Sweet
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A. Sherrod Blakely @SherrodbCSN
#CelticsTalk: Jordan Crawford is in Phoenix with the #Celtics and will likely be in uniform tonight vs the #Suns.
Good news. They could certainly use the body right now.
Hopefully he can back up KG at center. ;D
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Statistically, Jordan Crawford looks like a cheaper Ben Gordon, which I don't think you should want as a starter, but could be acceptable in a bench role.
Yeah I think he will be fine for us in that role. Similar to Barbosa. Maybe not as efficient, but certainly capable to get a shot off and not defer to a guarded teammate with 3 seconds on the clock.
If he can make an extra bucket or two a game that we probably wouldn't get without him, that could make a big difference.
~15 MPG, that's all we really need from him.
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Jordan Crawford is with #celtics in Phoenix and will wear #27
- @GwashNBAGlobe
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Jordan Crawford picked No. 27 -- not because of his draft position -- but 7-2 = 5, one of his preferred digits.
Crawford: “Nervous, more than anything. This is Boston Celtics. You hear about them growing up, so just to be on this team is an honor.”
Crawford on KG summer incident. “It was never a thing. It was just basketball. Now we’re on the [same] team, hopefully I can help them.”
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6NM6jebwPk&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6NM6jebwPk&feature=youtu.be).
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I know I'm late but can somebody tell me why the Wizards did this trade? What did the Wizards want in Collins (since Barbosa can't play and is i'm sure free to sign with anybody after he recovers)? Couldn't they have got like a draft pick for him?
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I know I'm late but can somebody tell me why the Wizards did this trade? What did the Wizards want in Collins (since Barbosa can't play and is i'm sure free to sign with anybody after he recovers)? Couldn't they have got like a draft pick for him?
No, Crawford had essentially no value. They just wanted him gone.
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Jordan Crawford picked No. 27 -- not because of his draft position -- but 7-2 = 5, one of his preferred digits.
Crawford: “Nervous, more than anything. This is Boston Celtics. You hear about them growing up, so just to be on this team is an honor.”
Crawford on KG summer incident. “It was never a thing. It was just basketball. Now we’re on the [same] team, hopefully I can help them.”
He's saying the right things. I hope he doesn't forget how to play ball like JT did.
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I forgot about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUw8M90ui9A&safe=active