CelticsStrong

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: kozlodoev on February 21, 2013, 11:08:04 AM

Title: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: kozlodoev on February 21, 2013, 11:08:04 AM
Heard some previews + interview with the author on Sports Hub yesterday (Adam Jones).

As an aside, the Hub is awful when it comes to Celtics/NBA talk: hosts don't know roster rules, don't know our players, and don't know NBA players in general.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Snakehead on February 21, 2013, 11:18:09 AM

As an aside, the Hub is awful when it comes to Celtics/NBA talk: hosts don't know roster rules, don't know our players, and don't know NBA players in general.

This applies to all of the popular Boston sports media I hear. It's embarrassing, as this is their job.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: kozlodoev on February 25, 2013, 11:12:04 AM
Article is out:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2013/02/25/irish-coffee-the-41-best-parts-of-the-most-revealing-rajon-rondo-interview-to-date/
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: MVPPierceNoJoke on February 25, 2013, 11:48:11 AM
Article is out:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2013/02/25/irish-coffee-the-41-best-parts-of-the-most-revealing-rajon-rondo-interview-to-date/

My favorite part is when Glen Davis says " He's a stone cold killer, trained by KG"
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: action781 on February 25, 2013, 11:49:31 AM
Love this:

Quote
Rondo watches Celtics replays at 2 a.m., and texts Garnett at 4 a.m. KG often responds.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: kgfor3 on February 25, 2013, 11:56:34 AM
I can't wait for him to be back on the court!
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 12:03:39 PM
Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: kgfor3 on February 25, 2013, 12:08:21 PM
Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

He's not?
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Snakehead on February 25, 2013, 12:10:09 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 12:17:51 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

  No kidding. Anyone who can play through a dislocated elbow is tough. He's had a fair amount of injuries that caused him to miss games in the past, I can't think of one where he didn't either stay in the game when he sustained the injury or go back into the game after receiving treatment.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: blink on February 25, 2013, 12:18:29 PM
Article is out:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2013/02/25/irish-coffee-the-41-best-parts-of-the-most-revealing-rajon-rondo-interview-to-date/

thanks for posting the article.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 12:19:30 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.


Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: kgfor3 on February 25, 2013, 12:20:58 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

 He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

And Rondo does? The media creates the narrative and Rondo hates the media.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: bdm860 on February 25, 2013, 12:23:32 PM
Question about this one:

Quote
Rondo doesn’t glad-hand anybody but claims to be 7 for 8 as a recruiter, selling targets on the benefits of Doc Rivers and a pure point guard.

Who is the one that got away?  David West?

Who are the 7 that came in?  Maybe:

Terry
Lee
Shaq
Sheed
Wilcox
Pietrus
Jermaine

Just thinking out loud about that one, never really pictured Rondo as much of a recruiter (and some of those guys didn't really have many suitors, so maybe there are others I'm not thinking of, or maybe Rondo is just being Rondo lol). But if he's reaching out to free agents trying to convince them to sign, I like it.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Snakehead on February 25, 2013, 12:26:06 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

When have you seen Pierce's arm bent completely the wrong way or has he torn his ACL and then played on it?

Maybe we hear about how tough Rondo is because he is tough?  Pierce is tough too. But why try to cut down Rondo?  It's a tired act.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Mattybriand on February 25, 2013, 12:28:44 PM
The more I learn about Rondo the more I love him, best part was when it said Rondo doesn't play grab ass! KG intensity!! Idk about anyone else but watching Lebron and Durants love affair in the finals disgusted me! I was a fan of Durant before I seen that!
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: blink on February 25, 2013, 12:29:25 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

Exactly how does RR 'hang his hat on that kind of bravado'?  So Rondo has a gun to the head of all these nba writers forcing them to write how he is a tough kid?  He isn't writing that stuff.  If you are so hurt to be 'subjected' to those articles, how about don't read them. 
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 12:38:54 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

When have you seen Pierce's arm bent completely the wrong way or has he torn his ACL and then played on it?

Maybe we hear about how tough Rondo is because he is tough?  Pierce is tough too. But why try to cut down Rondo?  It's a tired act.

Hey -- to each there own. I don't see why I shouldn't point out that I think Rondo's sensitivity to his ego and reputation drive these regurgitations of how tough he is.

Last I checked he still pads stats, only plays D when he feels like it, whines at refs and pouts on the court, and most importantly, takes games off when the TV audience isn't big enough.

Until he doesn't, I prefer the kind of toughness that Pierce personifies... the kind he doesn't have to talk about, he just exemplifies. PP wasn't always that way -- he had to look in the mirror at about the same age as Rondo and grow out of these types of bad habits. I hope Rondo will do the same.

If you disagree, I have no problem with that.


Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 25, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

When have you seen Pierce's arm bent completely the wrong way or has he torn his ACL and then played on it?

Maybe we hear about how tough Rondo is because he is tough?  Pierce is tough too. But why try to cut down Rondo?  It's a tired act.

Until he doesn't, I prefer the kind of toughness that Pierce personifies... the kind he doesn't have to talk about, he just exemplifies.

If you disagree, I have no problem with that.

I have three words for you:

Wheelchair
Head bandage

Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 12:45:47 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

When have you seen Pierce's arm bent completely the wrong way or has he torn his ACL and then played on it?

Maybe we hear about how tough Rondo is because he is tough?  Pierce is tough too. But why try to cut down Rondo?  It's a tired act.

Until he doesn't, I prefer the kind of toughness that Pierce personifies... the kind he doesn't have to talk about, he just exemplifies.

If you disagree, I have no problem with that.

I have three words for you:

Wheelchair
Head bandage

The head bandage was the professional nadir that drove Pierce to grow up and become a leader, if you recall.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Jeff on February 25, 2013, 12:46:59 PM
(slackjawed disbelief that this is a subject deemed worthy of debate)
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: kozlodoev on February 25, 2013, 12:52:57 PM
(slackjawed disbelief that this is a subject deemed worthy of debate)
My first reaction, too. There must be a million of other things I'd pick to discuss from this article before any perceptions of Rondo's toughness or lack thereof.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 12:56:49 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

When have you seen Pierce's arm bent completely the wrong way or has he torn his ACL and then played on it?

Maybe we hear about how tough Rondo is because he is tough?  Pierce is tough too. But why try to cut down Rondo?  It's a tired act.

Until he doesn't, I prefer the kind of toughness that Pierce personifies... the kind he doesn't have to talk about, he just exemplifies.

If you disagree, I have no problem with that.

I have three words for you:

Wheelchair
Head bandage

The head bandage was the professional nadir that drove Pierce to grow up and become a leader, if you recall.

  Do you also recall that he was older than Rondo is now when it happened?
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 25, 2013, 12:58:44 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

When have you seen Pierce's arm bent completely the wrong way or has he torn his ACL and then played on it?

Maybe we hear about how tough Rondo is because he is tough?  Pierce is tough too. But why try to cut down Rondo?  It's a tired act.

Until he doesn't, I prefer the kind of toughness that Pierce personifies... the kind he doesn't have to talk about, he just exemplifies.

If you disagree, I have no problem with that.

I have three words for you:

Wheelchair
Head bandage

The head bandage was the professional nadir that drove Pierce to grow up and become a leader, if you recall.

I do remember that. And Pierce was older then Rondo is now.

Both are tough players. Both have had to deal with some maturity issues. I don't think there's much else to say.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: bdm860 on February 25, 2013, 12:59:24 PM
(slackjawed disbelief that this is a subject deemed worthy of debate)
My first reaction, too. There must be a million of other things I'd pick to discuss from this article before any perceptions of Rondo's toughness or lack thereof.

#1 on my list, is how can we determine who the best Connect 4 player is on Celticsblog, and then how do we get that person in a game against Rondo.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 12:59:35 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

When have you seen Pierce's arm bent completely the wrong way or has he torn his ACL and then played on it?

Maybe we hear about how tough Rondo is because he is tough?  Pierce is tough too. But why try to cut down Rondo?  It's a tired act.

Until he doesn't, I prefer the kind of toughness that Pierce personifies... the kind he doesn't have to talk about, he just exemplifies.

If you disagree, I have no problem with that.

I have three words for you:

Wheelchair
Head bandage

The head bandage was the professional nadir that drove Pierce to grow up and become a leader, if you recall.



  Do you also recall that he was older than Rondo is now when it happened?

Sure. Like I said, I admire that PP did it, and hope Rondo can also mature like he did. It'll make him a better player.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Jeff on February 25, 2013, 01:00:44 PM
(slackjawed disbelief that this is a subject deemed worthy of debate)
My first reaction, too. There must be a million of other things I'd pick to discuss from this article before any perceptions of Rondo's toughness or lack thereof.

#1 on my list, is how can we determine who the best Connect 4 player is on Celticsblog, and then how do we get that person in a game against Rondo.

now we're talkin'

is there an online version of C4?
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ScottHow on February 25, 2013, 01:05:04 PM
Great article tp
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: JOMVP on February 25, 2013, 01:28:11 PM
Reading this list reminds me of those Chuck Norris lists, or the most interesting man in the world commericals.

Rajon Rondo once passed the ball in Utah, and it ended up in Ray Allen's hands in Golden State for the assisst. Rajon Rondo is the most interesting man in the world.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 01:37:51 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

When have you seen Pierce's arm bent completely the wrong way or has he torn his ACL and then played on it?

Maybe we hear about how tough Rondo is because he is tough?  Pierce is tough too. But why try to cut down Rondo?  It's a tired act.

Until he doesn't, I prefer the kind of toughness that Pierce personifies... the kind he doesn't have to talk about, he just exemplifies.

If you disagree, I have no problem with that.

I have three words for you:

Wheelchair
Head bandage

The head bandage was the professional nadir that drove Pierce to grow up and become a leader, if you recall.



  Do you also recall that he was older than Rondo is now when it happened?

Sure. Like I said, I admire that PP did it, and hope Rondo can also mature like he did. It'll make him a better player.

  Mature from PP's problems? I don't see your point. You prefer Paul's toughness to Rondo's because he plays through injuries without talking about it. Well so does Rondo, to the point that he gets attacked for the level of his play when he's out there injured. In fact his teammates have defended his play by mentioning injuries he had when he wasn't talking about them.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Jeff on February 25, 2013, 02:16:37 PM
relevant

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: fairweatherfan on February 25, 2013, 02:21:10 PM
relevant

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)

Forget Connect 4, those fingers are freaking me out.  They're like animatronic ghoul fingers or something.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 25, 2013, 02:34:31 PM
relevant

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)

Forget Connect 4, those fingers are freaking me out.  They're like animatronic ghoul fingers or something.

Absolutely. They look photo-shopped in there.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: LooseCannon on February 25, 2013, 02:54:39 PM
Quote
Rondo on the 2008 title season: “Everybody was asking for the ball. I had to keep track of all their shots. It was like, Paul [Pierce] has 17, and Ray only has seven, so I better get it to Ray. I got cussed out a few times.”

So, who did the cussing?  ::)
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: scaryjerry on February 25, 2013, 03:18:11 PM
Thanks for this.  Wow what a fascinating read.  He is just the most interesting player.


Ugh. More "Rondo is tough" propaganda. This card has been played ad nauseam by now.

What is your deal?

He played on a torn ACL.  He played with a dislocated elbow.  I think we know he is tough.

Sure. So is Pierce. Guy plays through injuries every season and yet we're not subjected to these year-in, year-out "Pierce is a warrior" articles. He doesn't hang his hat on that kind of bravado, and I appreciate that.

You're lost and just like pierce more obviously...I haven't watched a game in years without hearing what a warrior pierce is.....Mr wheelchair hero himself?, Mr gets shot every time he's breathed on?

what are you watching?

Nice anti rondo propaganda though
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 25, 2013, 03:33:47 PM
Quote
Rondo on the 2008 title season: “Everybody was asking for the ball. I had to keep track of all their shots. It was like, Paul [Pierce] has 17, and Ray only has seven, so I better get it to Ray. I got cussed out a few times.”

So, who did the cussing?  ::)

  I'm sure KG did a lot of cussing but it probably wasn't over not getting enough shots. By the way, consider the fact that Rondo was getting chewed out after games by one of the big three for not getting them enough shots. Then consider the multitude  of posts about Rondo being stat driven and the rarity of such posts about the big three.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 25, 2013, 03:34:19 PM
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)

Nice double trap going there. Red is a n00b.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Snakehead on February 25, 2013, 04:27:14 PM
(slackjawed disbelief that this is a subject deemed worthy of debate)

Totally.

This is like saying I'm tired of hearing about how great of an athlete LeBron is.  Even though other people are saying it an not LeBron.  And I can watch him fly down the court and jump so his head is above the rim before dunking three times a game.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: timobusa on February 25, 2013, 05:45:13 PM
relevant

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)

this pictures focal point is his fingers.
haha. i cant seem to look away.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 25, 2013, 06:03:24 PM
relevant

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)

this pictures focal point is his fingers.
haha. i cant seem to look away.

I know he is known for big hands, but I do think the camera lens is playing tricks in this pic.  Look at the size of the kids heads close to the camera compared to those away from the camera -- even Rondo's.  In this shot his fingers appear twice as long as his head -- which I am guessing they aren't.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 25, 2013, 06:09:14 PM
relevant

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)

this pictures focal point is his fingers.
haha. i cant seem to look away.

I know he is known for big hands, but I do think the camera lens is playing tricks in this pic.  Look at the size of the kids heads close to the camera compared to those away from the camera -- even Rondo's.  In this shot his fingers appear twice as long as his head -- which I am guessing they aren't.

But even compared to the Connect Four..... but I think it's common knowledge that he has huge hands/fingers/arms
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: 4THQTR on February 25, 2013, 06:22:04 PM
relevant

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)

this pictures focal point is his fingers.
haha. i cant seem to look away.

I know he is known for big hands, but I do think the camera lens is playing tricks in this pic.  Look at the size of the kids heads close to the camera compared to those away from the camera -- even Rondo's.  In this shot his fingers appear twice as long as his head -- which I am guessing they aren't.

But even compared to the Connect Four..... but I think it's common knowledge that he has huge hands/fingers/arms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJXvxR1TQk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpOlZ9Z6q30
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: dark_lord on February 25, 2013, 06:29:48 PM
definitely an interesting read and person
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 25, 2013, 06:31:41 PM
Great videos 4thQTR!   Loved the Sportcenter one -- histerical.

9.5 inches is a huge hand, but I just measured my hand top to bottom and it's about 7 inches. I am 5'8" (on a well-stretched day) with proportional if not small-ish hands.  9.5 is long, but I still think the Connect4 pic probably distorts his hand size a bit.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: 4THQTR on February 25, 2013, 06:44:55 PM
Great videos 4thQTR!   Loved the Sportcenter one -- histerical.

9.5 inches is a huge hand, but I just measured my hand top to bottom and it's about 7 inches. I am 5'8" (on a well-stretched day) with proportional if not small-ish hands.  9.5 is long, but I still think the Connect4 pic probably distorts his hand size a bit.

No arguing about the effect of perspective on that pic, but he does have giant hands nevertheless.

And before I actually forget it: Thanks to the OP for posting the article. Fun and interesting read. Have a TP
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 11:19:23 AM


  I think that Scal's quote really cuts to the heart of the Rondo conundrum:

Brian Scalabrine: “There’s no one in the history of our game like him. He’s the the most interesting player I’ve ever known. How does someone who is 6-foot-1 get 18 rebounds? How does someone who doesn’t run fast break get 20 assists? How does someone who never shoots get everybody open? We cannot begin to understand how he does it.”

  IMO not only can people not understand how a player that defenses give so much room to can run an offense so successfully, they refuse to believe that what they're seeing is more than an aberration or a perfect storm of unique circumstances. First it was that anyone could get that many assists playing with HOFers (until they stopped playing at that level). Then it was that he could only get his assists if he was surrounded by great shooters (until Bradley replaced Ray). Now it's that he spends games hunting for assists and trying to pad his stats (because, frankly, it's the only explanation left).

  The truth of the matter is that he's just that good. Not only is he able to find people for open shots despite the way the team's guarded, he's able to find them at a terrific rate. This is the 3rd year in a row that he's averaged 11+ assists. The only other player to ever do that by the same age was Magic. The only other players who ever averaged 11 assists 3 times in their first 7 years were Stockton (4 times), Magic and Oscar. The fact that he's able to do that when he's not on a fast break team and opponents are playing him for the pass and not the shot is very impressive.

Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: vinnie on February 26, 2013, 11:26:08 AM


  I think that Scal's quote really cuts to the heart of the Rondo conundrum:

Brian Scalabrine: “There’s no one in the history of our game like him. He’s the the most interesting player I’ve ever known. How does someone who is 6-foot-1 get 18 rebounds? How does someone who doesn’t run fast break get 20 assists? How does someone who never shoots get everybody open? We cannot begin to understand how he does it.”

  IMO not only can people not understand how a player that defenses give so much room to can run an offense so successfully, they refuse to believe that what they're seeing is more than an aberration or a perfect storm of unique circumstances. First it was that anyone could get that many assists playing with HOFers (until they stopped playing at that level). Then it was that he could only get his assists if he was surrounded by great shooters (until Bradley replaced Ray). Now it's that he spends games hunting for assists and trying to pad his stats (because, frankly, it's the only explanation left).

  The truth of the matter is that he's just that good. Not only is he able to find people for open shots despite the way the team's guarded, he's able to find them at a terrific rate. This is the 3rd year in a row that he's averaged 11+ assists. The only other player to ever do that by the same age was Magic. The only other players who ever averaged 11 assists 3 times in their first 7 years were Stockton (4 times), Magic and Oscar. The fact that he's able to do that when he's not on a fast break team and opponents are playing him for the pass and not the shot is very impressive.

TP for you
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Celtics18 on February 26, 2013, 11:28:19 AM
relevant

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535475_10151277352531898_985772272_n.jpg)

this pictures focal point is his fingers.
haha. i cant seem to look away.

I wonder if he is able to use his hand size as an advantage when playing ConnectFour.  Maybe those fingers distract his opponent or something. 

I'm a fairly nasty ConnectFour player, myself.  I've started playing regularly against my nine year old daughter lately.  I beat her almost every time. 
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 26, 2013, 11:49:59 AM


  I think that Scal's quote really cuts to the heart of the Rondo conundrum:

Brian Scalabrine: “There’s no one in the history of our game like him. He’s the the most interesting player I’ve ever known. How does someone who is 6-foot-1 get 18 rebounds? How does someone who doesn’t run fast break get 20 assists? How does someone who never shoots get everybody open? We cannot begin to understand how he does it.”

  IMO not only can people not understand how a player that defenses give so much room to can run an offense so successfully, they refuse to believe that what they're seeing is more than an aberration or a perfect storm of unique circumstances. First it was that anyone could get that many assists playing with HOFers (until they stopped playing at that level). Then it was that he could only get his assists if he was surrounded by great shooters (until Bradley replaced Ray). Now it's that he spends games hunting for assists and trying to pad his stats (because, frankly, it's the only explanation left).

  The truth of the matter is that he's just that good. Not only is he able to find people for open shots despite the way the team's guarded, he's able to find them at a terrific rate. This is the 3rd year in a row that he's averaged 11+ assists. The only other player to ever do that by the same age was Magic. The only other players who ever averaged 11 assists 3 times in their first 7 years were Stockton (4 times), Magic and Oscar. The fact that he's able to do that when he's not on a fast break team and opponents are playing him for the pass and not the shot is very impressive.

No doubt that Rondo is a uniquely talented player. So is Josh Smith. So is Al Jefferson. So is Jamal Crawford, etc. Doubts persist about what those talents do for win loss record of their respective teams. How about Rondo?

The Celtics major offensive stats since Rondo was injured, including APG, FG%, 3P FG% and PPG, are all at or above where they were when he wasn't. As is their record.

So, do Rondo's talents truly elevate the Cs play?

I enjoy watching Rondo as a fan, but have doubts (as you know) about whether his play drives Cs wins, and / or whether some of the other aspects that come with the Rondo package prevent them. 





Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 12:19:58 PM


  I think that Scal's quote really cuts to the heart of the Rondo conundrum:

Brian Scalabrine: “There’s no one in the history of our game like him. He’s the the most interesting player I’ve ever known. How does someone who is 6-foot-1 get 18 rebounds? How does someone who doesn’t run fast break get 20 assists? How does someone who never shoots get everybody open? We cannot begin to understand how he does it.”

  IMO not only can people not understand how a player that defenses give so much room to can run an offense so successfully, they refuse to believe that what they're seeing is more than an aberration or a perfect storm of unique circumstances. First it was that anyone could get that many assists playing with HOFers (until they stopped playing at that level). Then it was that he could only get his assists if he was surrounded by great shooters (until Bradley replaced Ray). Now it's that he spends games hunting for assists and trying to pad his stats (because, frankly, it's the only explanation left).

  The truth of the matter is that he's just that good. Not only is he able to find people for open shots despite the way the team's guarded, he's able to find them at a terrific rate. This is the 3rd year in a row that he's averaged 11+ assists. The only other player to ever do that by the same age was Magic. The only other players who ever averaged 11 assists 3 times in their first 7 years were Stockton (4 times), Magic and Oscar. The fact that he's able to do that when he's not on a fast break team and opponents are playing him for the pass and not the shot is very impressive.

No doubt that Rondo is a uniquely talented player. So is Josh Smith. So is Al Jefferson. So is Jamal Crawford, etc. Doubts persist about what those talents do for win loss record of their respective teams. How about Rondo?

The Celtics major offensive stats since Rondo was injured, including APG, FG%, 3P FG% and PPG, are all at or above where they were when he wasn't. As is their record.

So, do Rondo's talents truly elevate the Cs play?

  Yes, and it's obvious if you've seen enough of the Celts that you don't ignore years of play and base your entire analysis of Rondo on a 5-6 week stretch when Rondo and PP and Terry were playing through injuries. You'd also have to ignore the fact that our offense earlier this season was better than it's been since Rondo's been out to claim Rondo doesn't help the offense, and have seen very few of the Celts playoff games over the last few years.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: kgainez on February 26, 2013, 12:29:13 PM
can't see the article put up by truthtrey any more :(
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: Snakehead on February 26, 2013, 12:32:55 PM


  I think that Scal's quote really cuts to the heart of the Rondo conundrum:

Brian Scalabrine: “There’s no one in the history of our game like him. He’s the the most interesting player I’ve ever known. How does someone who is 6-foot-1 get 18 rebounds? How does someone who doesn’t run fast break get 20 assists? How does someone who never shoots get everybody open? We cannot begin to understand how he does it.”

  IMO not only can people not understand how a player that defenses give so much room to can run an offense so successfully, they refuse to believe that what they're seeing is more than an aberration or a perfect storm of unique circumstances. First it was that anyone could get that many assists playing with HOFers (until they stopped playing at that level). Then it was that he could only get his assists if he was surrounded by great shooters (until Bradley replaced Ray). Now it's that he spends games hunting for assists and trying to pad his stats (because, frankly, it's the only explanation left).

  The truth of the matter is that he's just that good. Not only is he able to find people for open shots despite the way the team's guarded, he's able to find them at a terrific rate. This is the 3rd year in a row that he's averaged 11+ assists. The only other player to ever do that by the same age was Magic. The only other players who ever averaged 11 assists 3 times in their first 7 years were Stockton (4 times), Magic and Oscar. The fact that he's able to do that when he's not on a fast break team and opponents are playing him for the pass and not the shot is very impressive.

Well put Tim.  TP.

I found Scal's quote to be one of the better parts of the article as well.  I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying Scal as a color man and analyst.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 01:30:43 PM


  I think that Scal's quote really cuts to the heart of the Rondo conundrum:

Brian Scalabrine: “There’s no one in the history of our game like him. He’s the the most interesting player I’ve ever known. How does someone who is 6-foot-1 get 18 rebounds? How does someone who doesn’t run fast break get 20 assists? How does someone who never shoots get everybody open? We cannot begin to understand how he does it.”

  IMO not only can people not understand how a player that defenses give so much room to can run an offense so successfully, they refuse to believe that what they're seeing is more than an aberration or a perfect storm of unique circumstances. First it was that anyone could get that many assists playing with HOFers (until they stopped playing at that level). Then it was that he could only get his assists if he was surrounded by great shooters (until Bradley replaced Ray). Now it's that he spends games hunting for assists and trying to pad his stats (because, frankly, it's the only explanation left).

  The truth of the matter is that he's just that good. Not only is he able to find people for open shots despite the way the team's guarded, he's able to find them at a terrific rate. This is the 3rd year in a row that he's averaged 11+ assists. The only other player to ever do that by the same age was Magic. The only other players who ever averaged 11 assists 3 times in their first 7 years were Stockton (4 times), Magic and Oscar. The fact that he's able to do that when he's not on a fast break team and opponents are playing him for the pass and not the shot is very impressive.

No doubt that Rondo is a uniquely talented player. So is Josh Smith. So is Al Jefferson. So is Jamal Crawford, etc. Doubts persist about what those talents do for win loss record of their respective teams. How about Rondo?

  By the way, there are a number of areas (assists, triple doubles and rebounds for a pg in the playoffs, individual games, defense) where there Rondo's done things or put up stats that few in the game have. Are you saying that players like Jamal Crawford regularly do things that very few players in league history have done? What talents do they possess that are historically unique?
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 01:31:30 PM
can't see the article put up by truthtrey any more :(

  I noticed that as well. Bummer.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 26, 2013, 02:11:20 PM


  I think that Scal's quote really cuts to the heart of the Rondo conundrum:

Brian Scalabrine: “There’s no one in the history of our game like him. He’s the the most interesting player I’ve ever known. How does someone who is 6-foot-1 get 18 rebounds? How does someone who doesn’t run fast break get 20 assists? How does someone who never shoots get everybody open? We cannot begin to understand how he does it.”

  IMO not only can people not understand how a player that defenses give so much room to can run an offense so successfully, they refuse to believe that what they're seeing is more than an aberration or a perfect storm of unique circumstances. First it was that anyone could get that many assists playing with HOFers (until they stopped playing at that level). Then it was that he could only get his assists if he was surrounded by great shooters (until Bradley replaced Ray). Now it's that he spends games hunting for assists and trying to pad his stats (because, frankly, it's the only explanation left).

  The truth of the matter is that he's just that good. Not only is he able to find people for open shots despite the way the team's guarded, he's able to find them at a terrific rate. This is the 3rd year in a row that he's averaged 11+ assists. The only other player to ever do that by the same age was Magic. The only other players who ever averaged 11 assists 3 times in their first 7 years were Stockton (4 times), Magic and Oscar. The fact that he's able to do that when he's not on a fast break team and opponents are playing him for the pass and not the shot is very impressive.

No doubt that Rondo is a uniquely talented player. So is Josh Smith. So is Al Jefferson. So is Jamal Crawford, etc. Doubts persist about what those talents do for win loss record of their respective teams. How about Rondo?

  By the way, there are a number of areas (assists, triple doubles and rebounds for a pg in the playoffs, individual games, defense) where there Rondo's done things or put up stats that few in the game have. Are you saying that players like Jamal Crawford regularly do things that very few players in league history have done? What talents do they possess that are historically unique?

You're marveling at Rondo's individual statistics. I don't care about them. I'm interested in the performance of the team, and whether Rondo's participation positively effects the outcome of games. 

The Celtics offensive rank has gone down every year since 2008. I won't blame this exclusively on Rondo, but I also won't stick my head in the sand and pretend it has nothing to do with him.

Meanwhile, I believe there's enough statistical and visual evidence regarding the effect of him not being on the floor to wonder what the player could do to improve his effect on his team.


 



Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 03:03:17 PM


  I think that Scal's quote really cuts to the heart of the Rondo conundrum:

Brian Scalabrine: “There’s no one in the history of our game like him. He’s the the most interesting player I’ve ever known. How does someone who is 6-foot-1 get 18 rebounds? How does someone who doesn’t run fast break get 20 assists? How does someone who never shoots get everybody open? We cannot begin to understand how he does it.”

  IMO not only can people not understand how a player that defenses give so much room to can run an offense so successfully, they refuse to believe that what they're seeing is more than an aberration or a perfect storm of unique circumstances. First it was that anyone could get that many assists playing with HOFers (until they stopped playing at that level). Then it was that he could only get his assists if he was surrounded by great shooters (until Bradley replaced Ray). Now it's that he spends games hunting for assists and trying to pad his stats (because, frankly, it's the only explanation left).

  The truth of the matter is that he's just that good. Not only is he able to find people for open shots despite the way the team's guarded, he's able to find them at a terrific rate. This is the 3rd year in a row that he's averaged 11+ assists. The only other player to ever do that by the same age was Magic. The only other players who ever averaged 11 assists 3 times in their first 7 years were Stockton (4 times), Magic and Oscar. The fact that he's able to do that when he's not on a fast break team and opponents are playing him for the pass and not the shot is very impressive.

No doubt that Rondo is a uniquely talented player. So is Josh Smith. So is Al Jefferson. So is Jamal Crawford, etc. Doubts persist about what those talents do for win loss record of their respective teams. How about Rondo?

  By the way, there are a number of areas (assists, triple doubles and rebounds for a pg in the playoffs, individual games, defense) where there Rondo's done things or put up stats that few in the game have. Are you saying that players like Jamal Crawford regularly do things that very few players in league history have done? What talents do they possess that are historically unique?

You're marveling at Rondo's individual statistics. I don't care about them. I'm interested in the performance of the team, and whether Rondo's participation positively effects the outcome of games. 

  I'm not marveling at Rondo's individual stats, just claiming that they're significant enough that they can't just be dismissed out of hand.

The Celtics offensive rank has gone down every year since 2008. I won't blame this exclusively on Rondo, but I also won't stick my head in the sand and pretend it has nothing to do with him.

  I don't stick my head in the sand and pretend our offense has nothing to do with Rondo either. But I don't ignore obvious things about the rest of the roster. Obvious differences are that we don't have the three point shooters that we did, we don't have players that take the ball to the hoop like we used to, and we don't go after offensive rebounds like we used to. I don't see how you'd blame Rondo for any of these but it's still possible that you do.

  Even more glaring is the change in our scoring leaders. Paul Pierce is nowhere near the offensive player he was in 2008. Kevin Garnett is nowhere near the offensive player he was in 2008. Bradley and Lee aren't any closer to 2008 Ray as scorers than Rondo is to Irving. Again, the drop in scoring ability among our leading scorers would have a dramatic effect on our offense. Again, I wouldn't blame this on Rondo although you might.

  When you consider all of the reasons our offense should be worse than in 2008 I'd say that Rondo's role, especially before mid-December or so, was to keep our offense good enough that we could still compete with other top teams.

Meanwhile, I believe there's enough statistical and visual evidence regarding the effect of him not being on the floor to wonder what the player could do to improve his effect on his team.

  On this we completely agree. You're claiming Rondo doesn't contribute to the offense because we're as good without him as we are with him. Fine. In the 10-11 season our offense was 10 ppp better when he played, in the 2011 playoffs it was 17 ppp better, In the 11-12 season we were 7 points better, in the 2012 playoffs we were 11 points better. The visual evidence obviously confirmed this. Again, I'd claim that 2 full seasons and 2 full playoffs are more meaningful than a stretch of bad play in the middle of a season when 3 of our top offensive players were struggling with injuries.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ssspence on February 26, 2013, 03:25:35 PM
Despite your insistance to the contrary, Pierce and Garnett haven't changed as dramatically year-to-year as you describe, or really that much at all.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/662/paul-pierce

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/261/kevin-garnett

And Allen left because he hated playing with Rondo, despite the fact than on paper a guy who leads the league in assists should be the perfect fit for the league's greatest catch-and-shot player ever. 

Meanwhile, there's plenty of evidence around Rondo's ball domination (and the stagnation it creates) beyond just looking at the Cs offensive efficiency. Here's an excerpt from Zach Lowe:

It’s no secret Boston’s offense had grown very Rondo-dominant, especially this season. The Celtics are one of 15 teams that have invested in fancy data-tracking cameras from STATS LLC, and the information from those cameras backs up that notion. Rondo has dribbled the ball about 486 times per tracked game this season, the fourth-highest figure in the league for players on those 15 camera teams, and about 90 more dribbles per game than he averaged last season, according to the data. A larger percentage of his touches — 41 percent this season, 35.5 percent last season — have involved at least six dribbles.

This has naturally resulted in fewer touches, and shorter touches, for some of Boston’s secondary ball-handlers. Terry dribbles the ball twice on average every time he gets it, down from a three-dribble average last season, and a much higher percentage of his touches have lasted between zero and two seconds in Boston, the data show. Pierce’s stats have shifted in a similar way, and Terry is still on pace for a career-low usage rate — a measure of the percentage of Boston possessions that end with a Terry shot, drawn foul or turnover.


Sorry, this is getting boring. I'm moving on to something else. TP for the effort, and I'll leave you with the below -- here's to hoping somewhere Rondo has read this article in between games of Connect 4.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323384604578326451812887938.html?KEYWORDS=rondo
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: BballTim on February 26, 2013, 04:13:39 PM
Despite your insistance to the contrary, Pierce and Garnett haven't changed as dramatically year-to-year as you describe, or really that much at all.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/662/paul-pierce

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/261/kevin-garnett

  I don't have to look at stats to see the difference in PP's game from 07-08 to now, although I'd wonder if you noticed that his fg%, 3fg% and ft% were all well down and that he has his lowest ts% in almost 10 years. In the 2 years before 07-08 PP (who was only 30 at the time) averaged 27 and 25 ppg. He was still clearly capable of carrying that kind of load on offense in 08, he's clearly far from that level now. Same goes for KG and Ray, who averaged 27 or so the year before he came here. An aside, but in 2008 I felt that the window was clearly longer than the 2-3 years people were claiming because the big three were carrying such a reduced load that they'd be able to maintain that lower level of productivity for q while. They're getting to the point where they have trouble carrying that lower level of productivity now.

And Allen left because he hated playing with Rondo, despite the fact than on paper a guy who leads the league in assists should be the perfect fit for the league's greatest catch-and-shot player ever.
 

  Ray left for a number of reasons. But the "on paper" analysis clearly matched the results, in the last 4 years Ray played with Rondo he had 4 of the 5 most efficient scoring years of his career.

Meanwhile, there's plenty of evidence around Rondo's ball domination (and the stagnation it creates) beyond just looking at the Cs offensive efficiency. Here's an excerpt from Zach Lowe:

It’s no secret Boston’s offense had grown very Rondo-dominant, especially this season. The Celtics are one of 15 teams that have invested in fancy data-tracking cameras from STATS LLC, and the information from those cameras backs up that notion. Rondo has dribbled the ball about 486 times per tracked game this season, the fourth-highest figure in the league for players on those 15 camera teams, and about 90 more dribbles per game than he averaged last season, according to the data. A larger percentage of his touches — 41 percent this season, 35.5 percent last season — have involved at least six dribbles.

This has naturally resulted in fewer touches, and shorter touches, for some of Boston’s secondary ball-handlers. Terry dribbles the ball twice on average every time he gets it, down from a three-dribble average last season, and a much higher percentage of his touches have lasted between zero and two seconds in Boston, the data show. Pierce’s stats have shifted in a similar way, and Terry is still on pace for a career-low usage rate — a measure of the percentage of Boston possessions that end with a Terry shot, drawn foul or turnover.


  Sounds pretty [dang]ing in a vacuum. When you consider that a) Terry's  best offensive month with the Celts isn't February, it was November when he was starting alongside Rondo, b) Danny mentioned that Terry (and PP btw) was playing poorly in Dec/Jan because of an injury and c) that Terry's usage hasn't changed dramatically since Rondo left you'd probably realize that everything the guy was saying about Terry and PP was probably unrelated to Rondo's play.
Title: Re: SI Article on Rondo Coming This Week
Post by: ejk3489 on February 28, 2013, 06:18:51 PM
The full article came out today, for those who were interested in reading it:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1207014/index.htm