CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Clench123 on February 21, 2013, 10:38:37 AM
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And ladies and gentlemen, we are back to earth...
If a new fan walked in here couple weeks ago, they would think Rondo was the cancer on the team and I think it's a [dang] shame how people (his haters) unfairly criticize the guy that has given us years of briliancy just because we were in the lala land of 8 games winning streak or so after he went down. The thought that we are better without Rondo is ludicurous.
I saw a lot of holes in last nights' game and the game before that Rondo would've filled. Just because whole bunch of role players found motivation and started playing the way they're suppose to play after Rondo's injury didn't mean we're better without him. He is still our best play and if you ask me, you don't trade a special player like Rondo
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Rondo can't play center and guard Howard as effectively as Bass can.
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I dont know how people could admit that we were better off without him because its not true. 7 game win streak or not.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
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Just as I'm not going to base my opinion on a 7 game winning streak, I won't do it on a 2 game losing streak.
I thought Rondo helped our team before his injury and still do.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Right, because getting outrebounded by 15 really didn't matter much.
We got schooled on rebounding by Earl Clark -- we need help in the worst way.
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Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
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Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Very true.
Remember when some posters were saying Rondo was "stealing" rebounds from our bigs and padding his rebounding stats?
LOL.
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I think he coulda really helped with our rhythm. We were really outta sink
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Is it really? And I pose that question to both of your statements.
I don't think anyone really thought we were a better team by simply upcoming him out of the lineup. But with the 4 guards we had when Barbosa was healthy, we created a new system (one in which our defenders continually tried to keep their man in front of them and on offense there were threats everywhere on the floor).
I think Rondo is a very good player. I don't think he is a franchise player. I especially don't think he is a good fit for this team. And I think 29 GM's in this league know this.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Rondos absence does not affect this team in how the team plays. Last nigh and other night CS team is suffering rebounding in defence and offence. So, there is no point to cry for Rondo penetrations but to be concerned about missing a big man under the rim. Of course DA is not bringing a big man to solve this issue, opened since Perk left the Cs
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Is it really? And I pose that question to both of your statements.
I don't think anyone really thought we were a better team by simply upcoming him out of the lineup. But with the 4 guards we had when Barbosa was healthy, we created a new system (one in which our defenders continually tried to keep their man in front of them and on offense there were threats everywhere on the floor).
I think Rondo is a very good player. I don't think he is a franchise player. I especially don't think he is a good fit for this team. And I think 29 GM's in this league know this.
So according to you, Barbosa's injury is what made us a non contender. That is laughable
And yes, for those eight games people are saying we are better without Rondo. I didn't just came up with that.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Rondos absence does not affect this team in how the team plays. Last nigh and other night CS team is suffering rebounding in defence and offence. So, there is no point to cry for Rondo penetrations but to be concerned about missing a big man under the rim. Of course DA is not bringing a big man to solve this issue, opened since Perk left the Cs
Yeah...like we didn't become more of a jumpshooting team after Rondo's injury
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more
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That Rondo means a lot to this team...I'm under the impression that everybody knows it.
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Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Very true.
Remember when some posters were saying Rondo was "stealing" rebounds from our bigs and padding his rebounding stats?
LOL.
Yet, Avery Bradley 4 rebounds, Courtney Lee 4 rebounds, Jason Terry 4 rebounds... that's plenty of rebounding production from your main guards, so don't think Rondo would've added that much in that department.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more
Hm?
Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.
Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Very true.
Remember when some posters were saying Rondo was "stealing" rebounds from our bigs and padding his rebounding stats?
LOL.
Yet, Avery Bradley 4 rebounds, Courtney Lee 4 rebounds, Jason Terry 4 rebounds... that's plenty of rebounding production from your main guards, so don't think Rondo would've added that much in that department.
Rondo is a better rebounder than any of them. So yes he would have helped. How could you say otherwise?
Sure it falls more on your bigs but Rondo is a better rebounder and he sure has had huge rebounding games on big stages.
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I felt like last night was one of the games where our guards/point forwards whomever played a lot like Rondo would've. and like I continue to say, itt felt like that game was played in December.
I'm not sure what was wrong with AB, but he couldn't keep his man in front of him. Lakers were screening much better and it seemed as if Wilcox and Bass werent even telling the guards screens were coming.
Also, AB and Lee don't press as much..or at least didn't last night.
I think AB played poorly. Our defense all over was bad.
We were a step behind all night.
Old? Tired? I'm not sure.
I do not think that was a game where Rondo's presence would've mattered.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more
Hm?
Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.
I'm not sure we're talking about the same Rondo.
Rondo STAYS passing up easy layups for an assist...and the same thing happens.
No one expects the pass, they werent ready, so they have to run around some more and then just hoist up a brick.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Is it really? And I pose that question to both of your statements.
I don't think anyone really thought we were a better team by simply upcoming him out of the lineup. But with the 4 guards we had when Barbosa was healthy, we created a new system (one in which our defenders continually tried to keep their man in front of them and on offense there were threats everywhere on the floor).
I think Rondo is a very good player. I don't think he is a franchise player. I especially don't think he is a good fit for this team. And I think 29 GM's in this league know this.
Co-sign the above.
It continues to disturb me how many people are more worried about Rondo than the franchise in general.
Rondo is a good player. He is not a great player, because he's a ball-stopper and an ambivalent defender. He's not remotely the foundation of any rebuild Ainge might decide to launch, today, in the off-season or otherwise.
The beauty of basketball is that it's a team game. As an old-timer, I guess, it makes me sad to see people dwell on one player, especially on a Celtics franchise whose tradition has been built on the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
JMO.
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Main problem with our guards is that Doc for some reason has decided to use Bradley in a PG role. We grab a rebound, and instead of doing what we were doing previously, move the ball up the floor, you see Bradley coming back to look for the ball.
That's not going to lead to a lot of success for us. Our ball movement is vastly superior when we had Lee bringing the ball up, and when no one was assigned to be a PG among this group of players.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more
Hm?
Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.
I'm not sure we're talking about the same Rondo.
Rondo STAYS passing up easy layups for an assist...and the same thing happens.
No one expects the pass, they werent ready, so they have to run around some more and then just hoist up a brick.
No I'm talking about Rondo. No one on our team takes more shots at the rim and makes a higher percentage.
Just another fallacy I see said all the time.
And funny you're blaming Rondo for other plays not being ready for a pass.
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This team needs more then one thing.
When Rondo is back, that reduces the number of things needed.
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Main problem with our guards is that Doc for some reason has decided to use Bradley in a PG role. We grab a rebound, and instead of doing what we were doing previously, move the ball up the floor, you see Bradley coming back to look for the ball.
That's not going to lead to a lot of success for us. Our ball movement is vastly superior when we had Lee bringing the ball up, and when no one was assigned to be a PG among this group of players.
They passed it ahead to Green/Lee/Terry/Etc plenty. But when the other team is:
1. Back
or
2. The player doesn't attack
It doesn't mean much. They're using Bradley to start their set plays more than Lee certainly.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more
Hm?
Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.
I'm not sure we're talking about the same Rondo.
Rondo STAYS passing up easy layups for an assist...and the same thing happens.
No one expects the pass, they werent ready, so they have to run around some more and then just hoist up a brick.
No I'm talking about Rondo. No one on our team takes more shots at the rim and makes a higher percentage.
Just another fallacy I see said all the time.
And funny you're blaming Rondo for other plays not being ready for a pass.
he can turn it on when he wants to
that doesn't mean he hasn't bricked quite a few or passed them out.
I'm not blaming him for them not being ready. But if you're at the rim, in position, you take the shot. is it science? I absolutely hate throwing it out for a jump shot for someone who's covered or partially covered. that's awful.
my main and ending point, is I don't think having Rondo last night would've mattered especially when you had AB being the dribbling PG last night.
Sullinger on the other hand...
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I thought the whole winning without him or being "better without him" was the biggest farce in quite some time anyways...bunch of home games in that stretch, 2 road games against crap and we almost lost them both......
It's basically like falling off a cliff, somehow surviving but once your adrenaline wears off you're screwed and in a lot more pain then you originally thought..they're coming back down to earth without him and any "better without rondo" wasn't sustainable for this team and having him would benefit the season long term and the wear and tear on the old guys.
Hopefully they can be competitive in the playoffs who knows
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Main problem with our guards is that Doc for some reason has decided to use Bradley in a PG role. We grab a rebound, and instead of doing what we were doing previously, move the ball up the floor, you see Bradley coming back to look for the ball.
That's not going to lead to a lot of success for us. Our ball movement is vastly superior when we had Lee bringing the ball up, and when no one was assigned to be a PG among this group of players.
They passed it ahead to Green/Lee/Terry/Etc plenty. But when the other team is:
1. Back
or
2. The player doesn't attack
It doesn't mean much. They're using Bradley to start their set plays more than Lee certainly.
Oh I agree, but the ball is not moving forward as often as we were doing, regardless of the defense.
Keep an eye out in the next game, and look at what Bradley is doing after rebounds.
We're starting to resemble the "Rondo focused" offense more and more with inferior playmakers and passers, and that's not the way to go about it in my opinion. Ball seems to be sticking on Bradley's hands too often, and he seems a bit trigger happy to me.
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The Denver game might have been winnable with Rondo.
Last night we needed Sullenger's input to rebound and limit the second chance stuff.
Dwight Howard, Earl Clark, and Antwan Jamison imposed their will on us inside. Rondo might have clamped in for steals maybe.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more
Hm?
Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.
I'm not sure we're talking about the same Rondo.
Rondo STAYS passing up easy layups for an assist...and the same thing happens.
No one expects the pass, they werent ready, so they have to run around some more and then just hoist up a brick.
No I'm talking about Rondo. No one on our team takes more shots at the rim and makes a higher percentage.
Just another fallacy I see said all the time.
And funny you're blaming Rondo for other plays not being ready for a pass.
he can turn it on when he wants to
that doesn't mean he hasn't bricked quite a few or passed them out.
I'm not blaming him for them not being ready. But if you're at the rim, in position, you take the shot. is it science? I absolutely hate throwing it out for a jump shot for someone who's covered or partially covered. that's awful.
my main and ending point, is I don't think having Rondo last night would've mattered especially when you had AB being the dribbling PG last night.
Sullinger on the other hand...
The stats say he takes shots at the rim and at a high percentage. And practically no one on the team helps him in this regard. So I don't understand what you're saying. He could attack more but his numbers are quite good.
Passing out to shooters is something you hate? If you don't have the best shot? That's good basketball. Sure Rondo can overpass but often that is the right play.
And finally what you're saying is Avery is the same level of PG, or even player, as Rondo?
Okay then...
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
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The Denver game might have been winnable with Rondo.
Last night we needed Sullenger's input to rebound and limit the second chance stuff.
Dwight Howard, Earl Clark, and Antwan Jamison imposed their will on us inside. Rondo might have clamped in for steals maybe.
You start Wilcox alongside KG against the Lakers, and I think the outcome would've been more favorable, particularly since you don't waste KG's energy on Howard unnecessarily.
But Doc opted to go with Bass, hell he even thought that going small with Bass at the 5 guarding Howard was a brilliant idea.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Is it really? And I pose that question to both of your statements.
I don't think anyone really thought we were a better team by simply upcoming him out of the lineup. But with the 4 guards we had when Barbosa was healthy, we created a new system (one in which our defenders continually tried to keep their man in front of them and on offense there were threats everywhere on the floor).
I think Rondo is a very good player. I don't think he is a franchise player. I especially don't think he is a good fit for this team. And I think 29 GM's in this league know this.
Co-sign the above.
It continues to disturb me how many people are more worried about Rondo than the franchise in general.
Rondo is a good player. He is not a great player, because he's a ball-stopper and an ambivalent defender. He's not remotely the foundation of any rebuild Ainge might decide to launch, today, in the off-season or otherwise.
The beauty of basketball is that it's a team game. As an old-timer, I guess, it makes me sad to see people dwell on one player, especially on a Celtics franchise whose tradition has been built on the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
JMO.
I, like you, appreciate team basketball. I also recognize that if you want to be a contender in this league, you need to have elite level talent on your ball club. Rondo is an elite level talent, and I do think that he is a primary part of the foundation for this team's rebuild.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
The talent has been poorly applied this season.
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Of course Rondo would have helped last night. We had no one to punish Nash's defense, no one to get dribble penetration. Howard's presence took away much of KG's post looks, so our offense was basically pull-up jumpers.
Rondo wouldn't have added much defensively (our defensive problems were Lee getting worked by Kobe, Nash breaking free on the pick and roll, and our rebounding achilles heel flairing up something fierce).
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
The talent has been poorly applied this season.
There is no question. Our record shows this. But the team is in no way better without him.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
The talent has been poorly applied this season.
There is no question. Our record shows this. But the team is in no way better without him.
I agree, but I think there's some truth that a team can play better without his star player... which is helped when you have players like KG still on your roster, and plenty of skillful players behind the star player who went down.
The thing is that I believe we should've been playing this brand of basketball since the beginning, and Rondo is fully capable of doing it. In fact, excelling at it, but it wasn't happening for some reason.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
Yeah we won with rondo.
You act like you never watched previous seasons, there's more hope with rondo then without sorry
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
So you're saying these issues outweigh the positive contributions he brings to the team?
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The fact that Steve Nash's defense is very poor would have been a target to exploit if Rondo was playing.
He'll be able to draw Dwight Howard to commit on help defense allowing him to be out of rebounding position most of the time. Those offensive rebounds would have been less.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
So you're saying these issues outweigh the positive contributions he brings to the team?
clarify what you mean when you say positive contributions. like what?
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
So you're saying these issues outweigh the positive contributions he brings to the team?
clarify what you mean when you say positive contributions. like what?
Being one of the best PGs in the league? Playing at an All Star level? Being the only player on our team that consistently has attacked the basket all season?
Is this a serious question?
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I don't think Rondo is the answer for this team now, or in the future. I'm ready to be done with the Rondo era. He is a lazy player, and only plays hard when he wants to. I am not a fan of guys with this mentality. I like guys who play hard every night.
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No... It's merely time to admit that leandro Barbosa eased the blow of losing rondo... And now we don't have Barbosa's instant offense off the bench
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First, I wanna start by saying I love RR the player, fell in love the end of the season b4 last!
I hate these threads, they are dumb to me... why would anyone who is a Celtics fan NOT want us to be better without RR, he is OUT FOR THE SEASON!!! Then when he comes back you want that team to be even better! It's about the Celtics, not RR!!!
So you are telling me we need a point guard? You don't say?! RR is great but I would stake a lot that with the team we have if we were to switch RR for someone like Dragic we would be fine, of course he is no RR but we don't NEED someone to do all that RR is capable of with the talent we have on this team! RR is a need but a bonus all in one with the team we have... we need a PG but we can lose some of what RR brings and still be fine!
Losing Barbosa was HUGE. Kevin, PP, and Doc pretty much said he was the straw the broke the camels back. You need to factor us going through more than losing RR (yes, he was the biggest loss no doubt)... losing 3 players for the entire season (KEY PLAYERS), wears on you mentally, it's like you can't win for losing. Look at any interview they did after Bosa went down and you could see and feel that they all thought that was the last straw.
Give us a real PG who can run an offense (or heck even just Bosa) and who knows how good we would be. Sure we need bigs (w/ or w/o RR), but not having anyone who can produce like Bosa could in RR's absence, made it extremely more difficult to win! Not only in Barbosa's play but his presence in the locker room, it's greatly missed.
I can't believe Celtics fans don't want us to win all b/c RR is out and b/c you want to be right and say "I told you so"... that makes you a RR fan FIRST and a Celtic fan only when RR can play. Nothing wrong with being a RR fan but like I have said before, there is something wrong when you don't want the team to win when your fav player is out. Again, I always wanted any team Shaq was on to win, even when he was injured b/c he would win by default just by being on the team... yes, it means more if he could play but in the end a win is a win! You RR fans (be honest), don't want the team to win or be better without him and I can not understand it. It's crazy to me.
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this is a silly thread.
of course the celtics are not better without rondo. BUT, are they really worse off without him? i dont think so and the last 10 games prove that.
Rondos got MANY flaws to his game and personality. Leaders arent made, they are born and rondo isnt a natural born leader. you cant lead men who dont want to listen to you, and rondo has built that in boston in his tenure here. so the idea that he will lead the future of this team is flawed.
as for his skills, ...hes got a lot of them. but they are so unique, i personally dont think they fit well into this team and the franchises direction. more specifically, he sucks on man2man defense, holds the ball too long which throws off the timing on offense, cant shoot and is a prick to teammates/coaches.
IMO, there are a bunch of PG's that could step into the celtics offense now and we wouldnt lose a step.
and keep in mind...the celtics lifetime record without rondo is well above .500. its not just the last 10 games to take into account. the big picture is the last 5 years, when he doesnt play we still win.
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Yeah because, this team was playing so well when rondo was healthy.... ::) Listen, Rondo is a great player and will be missed come playoff time but lets not act like we weren't under 500 before the rondo injury.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
So you're saying these issues outweigh the positive contributions he brings to the team?
clarify what you mean when you say positive contributions. like what?
Being one of the best PGs in the league? Playing at an All Star level? Being the only player on our team that consistently has attacked the basket all season?
Is this a serious question?
I feel like the first 2 are intangible that do nothing during a game. he's slacked this entire season imo. what good is having an allstar or best pg if our record is still 20-23.
when chris paul goes out, yes the clippers absolutely suck. that's easy. when felton and kidd go out, the knicks struggle.
why does our team play just as well (and to some, better?). we are 8-3 after the injury, i don't care where we won, because the truth is, our 6 game winning streak should have at least been a 10 game one.
why is it that majority of the times Rondo gets a trip dub, we lose the game?
why do we have SUCH a great player on our team, who is the leader and we HAD a losing record? and then, why do we let him take off days and by saying playoff rondo is the best rondo. i don't like that.
I don't get it.
consistently attacking the basket? no. i disagree with that.
---
the dominate Rondo for past teams has been great because our talent level had been minimal. We NEEDED alot from him.
This year, not as much. this team is TALENTED. We don't need a dominate PG (or any position really) and we don't need the complicated offensive system that Doc did run. We have athleticism, creators, guys with multiple talents now that need to be given free reign. This is part of the reason I'm not mad at JET for chucking up shots...isn't that what we called him in for? He's a shooter. he's a creator. he can handle the ball. he's not a spot up shooter a la ray allen. he can play. he can run.
I would loovvveee Rondo to come back and adjust. I think it's a good thing he's out so now he can see the other teammates and come back and trust them, understand their strengths (because Rondo IS a genius and that's one thing I can give to you).
all im saying.
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First, I wanna start by saying I love RR the player, fell in love the end of the season b4 last!
I hate these threads, they are dumb to me... why would anyone who is a Celtics fan NOT want us to be better without RR, he is OUT FOR THE SEASON!!! Then when he comes back you want that team to be even better! It's about the Celtics, not RR!!!
So you are telling me we need a point guard? You don't say?! RR is great but I would stake a lot that with the team we have if we were to switch RR for someone like Dragic we would be fine, of course he is no RR but we don't NEED someone to do all that RR is capable of with the talent we have on this team! RR is a need but a bonus all in one with the team we have... we need a PG but we can lose some of what RR brings and still be fine!
Losing Barbosa was HUGE. Kevin, PP, and Doc pretty much said he was the straw the broke the camels back. You need to factor us going through more than losing RR (yes, he was the biggest loss no doubt)... losing 3 players for the entire season (KEY PLAYERS), wears on you mentally, it's like you can't win for losing. Look at any interview they did after Bosa went down and you could see and feel that they all thought that was the last straw.
Give us a real PG who can run an offense (or heck even just Bosa) and who knows how good we would be. Sure we need bigs (w/ or w/o RR), but not having anyone who can produce like Bosa could in RR's absence, made it extremely more difficult to win! Not only in Barbosa's play but his presence in the locker room, it's greatly missed.
I can't believe Celtics fans don't want us to win all b/c RR is out and b/c you want to be right and say "I told you so"... that makes you a RR fan FIRST and a Celtic fan only when RR can play. Nothing wrong with being a RR fan but like I have said before, there is something wrong when you don't want the team to win when your fav player is out. Again, I always wanted any team Shaq was on to win, even when he was injured b/c he would win by default just by being on the team... yes, it means more if he could play but in the end a win is a win! You RR fans (be honest), don't want the team to win or be better without him and I can not understand it. It's crazy to me.
welp...
u get a TP
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Yeah because, this team was playing so well when rondo was healthy.... ::) Listen, Rondo is a great player and will be missed come playoff time but lets not act like we weren't under 500 before the rondo injury.
and then this
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They're currently the 7th seed in the weaker Eastern Conference. The team was not particularly good with Rondo, and isn't particularly good without him.
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I would loovvveee Rondo to come back and adjust. I think it's a good thing he's out so now he can see the other teammates and come back and trust them, understand their strengths (because Rondo IS a genius and that's one thing I can give to you).
all im saying.
/quote]
exactly. but unfortunately, rondo has already shown that he isnt mature enough to do this. his ego will not allow him to adjust like this. and again, hes got a history of being immature from kentucky to boston. so, imo, hes got to go.
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Rondo can't play center and guard Howard as effectively as Bass can.
Exactly. When Dwight gets 7 offensive rebounds that lead to baskets, oh, there's the 14 points that we lost by. I was really disappointed that Doc didn't play Jason Collins more last night. More confused than disappointed actually. I felt that was a no brainer.
Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Rondo isn't going to keep Dwight from getting rebounds.
--
As for the OP, it is not time yet to admit because I still feel that we've been playing better lately than pre-injury. Sometime between April 20 and mid-May will be the time when it becomes clear how much Rondo meant to this team. I *hope* it doesn't, but I expect that it will.
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First, I wanna start by saying I love RR the player, fell in love the end of the season b4 last!
I hate these threads, they are dumb to me... why would anyone who is a Celtics fan NOT want us to be better without RR, he is OUT FOR THE SEASON!!! Then when he comes back you want that team to be even better! It's about the Celtics, not RR!!!
So you are telling me we need a point guard? You don't say?! RR is great but I would stake a lot that with the team we have if we were to switch RR for someone like Dragic we would be fine, of course he is no RR but we don't NEED someone to do all that RR is capable of with the talent we have on this team! RR is a need but a bonus all in one with the team we have... we need a PG but we can lose some of what RR brings and still be fine!
Losing Barbosa was HUGE. Kevin, PP, and Doc pretty much said he was the straw the broke the camels back. You need to factor us going through more than losing RR (yes, he was the biggest loss no doubt)... losing 3 players for the entire season (KEY PLAYERS), wears on you mentally, it's like you can't win for losing. Look at any interview they did after Bosa went down and you could see and feel that they all thought that was the last straw.
Give us a real PG who can run an offense (or heck even just Bosa) and who knows how good we would be. Sure we need bigs (w/ or w/o RR), but not having anyone who can produce like Bosa could in RR's absence, made it extremely more difficult to win! Not only in Barbosa's play but his presence in the locker room, it's greatly missed.
I can't believe Celtics fans don't want us to win all b/c RR is out and b/c you want to be right and say "I told you so"... that makes you a RR fan FIRST and a Celtic fan only when RR can play. Nothing wrong with being a RR fan but like I have said before, there is something wrong when you don't want the team to win when your fav player is out. Again, I always wanted any team Shaq was on to win, even when he was injured b/c he would win by default just by being on the team... yes, it means more if he could play but in the end a win is a win! You RR fans (be honest), don't want the team to win or be better without him and I can not understand it. It's crazy to me.
I won't speak for all Celtics fans who are big fans of Rajon Rondo, but, personally, I absolutely want this team to continue to win without Rondo. Furthermore, I think that this team can still continue to be very good without Rondo for the remainder of this season.
My issue is that many fans seem to take the six game winning streak that the team went on without our injured point guard as some kind of confirmation that we are better of without him in the long run. I don't think we are better off without him in the long run, and if we were to deal him away for lesser players in an effort to patch up this season, I personally think that would be short-sighted.
I'll continue to root for the 2012-2013 Boston Celtics, but I also want to see a long term future built in part around Rajon Rondo. I don't see how that makes me a bad fan.
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I would loovvveee Rondo to come back and adjust. I think it's a good thing he's out so now he can see the other teammates and come back and trust them, understand their strengths (because Rondo IS a genius and that's one thing I can give to you).
all im saying.
/quote]
exactly. but unfortunately, rondo has already shown that he isnt mature enough to do this. his ego will not allow him to adjust like this. and again, hes got a history of being immature from kentucky to boston. so, imo, hes got to go.
i'm not going that far lol
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And ladies and gentlemen, we are back to earth...
If a new fan walked in here couple weeks ago, they would think Rondo was the cancer on the team and I think it's a [dang] shame how people (his haters) unfairly criticize the guy that has given us years of briliancy just because we were in the lala land of 8 games winning streak or so after he went down. The thought that we are better without Rondo is ludicurous.
I saw a lot of holes in last nights' game and the game before that Rondo would've filled. Just because whole bunch of role players found motivation and started playing the way they're suppose to play after Rondo's injury didn't mean we're better without him. He is still our best play and if you ask me, you don't trade a special player like Rondo
No...I don't think so
I think its a sign that losing three players (or 1/4 of out active roster) for the season is hard to recover from.
We lost Rondo but we were doing fine and winning games pretty comfortably since then bercause we still had a nice guard rotation and solid depth in the backcourt. Barbosa was playing nice defense and his ability to attack really helped us put pressure on opposing defense. Once he went down as well it really hurt...now our only true scorer in the backcourt is Terry, and that's not enough on a team that already struggled scoring to begin with.
As soon as Barbosa went down I saw the change. We still played good D, but our offense just didn't look like it could keep up anymore. If we still had Rondo and lost Barbosa then we'd be fine, but losing both hurts our offense way too much. It puts a lot of pressure on Terry, Green, Pierce and KG to carry us on the offensive end of the floor, and we have clearly struggles (even in the win/s) since that time.
We need another scorer desperately, and one who is still young enough to have the physical condition to being it every day. I think Josh Smith is best out of all the solutions were seen so Dar (T-Wil can help resolve the guard depth issue) and I have to say its start to get dangerously close to the point where I would trade anything I need to I'd it means getting Smith back.
Would I dangle Rondo and see if they'd bite? Maybe but is we hessirant that Smith at not re-sign without Rondo (one of the biggest reasons he wants to come to Boston).
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The winning streak post-Rondo injury means very little to me. NBA teams run hot and cold, and the Cs happened to run hot post-Rondo injury. This is the third time the team had a hot streak this season. Now, it looks like the Celtics are heading into their third cold streak of the season. This is what flawed, middling teams do in the NBA.
The Cs were heading a into seven out of eight home games streak after the ATL game where Rondo was injured, with the only road game a short jump to Toronto. The Heat and Nuggets victories were stellar, but the luster of the post-Rondo team is certainly dulled when the same vanquished Nugs and Lakers handled the Rondo-less Celtics in their arenas.
Besides Pierce and occasionally Jeff Green, no one on the Celtics can initiate offense. Add that to the major flaws of the team (no interior strength, horrible rebounding) and that makes for a lot of losses, especially on the road, where there's going to be a large FT disparity when the Cs are shooting jumpers and getting dominated in the paint.
You can't win many NBA games when the other team scores 20 or more points in the paint and gets way more FTs than your team. If this Celtics team doesn't make a move, I'll be surprised if it wins 44 games.
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Rondo has been one of the most frustrating Celtics PGs to watch -ever. And right now, I would rather have Ray Allen on the roster than Rondo.
The Celtics miss Sullinger and Barbosa as much. As far as the Lakers game, who knows if Rondo would be suspended or started a fight with Dwight Howard or something similiar.
As far as where he ranks on the Celtcs all time PG list he is somewhere here:
Cousy
KC Jones
Archibald
Jo Jo White
DJ
Mr. Big Shot Billups
Kenny Anderson
Sherman Douglas
David Wesley
Dana Barros
Rondo
I have not heard any rumors where GMs are trying to trade for Rondo. Hmmmmmmmmm
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
This is more stuff you read about on the blog than see in the games. People are talking about how great Terry is without Rondo, he was putting up the same or better numbers in November starting alongside Rondo.
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Wow! There's a lot of downright venomous animosity around here towards our injured point guard.
All I can say is that folks have some really short memories.
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Rondo can't play center and guard Howard as effectively as Bass can.
Exactly. When Dwight gets 7 offensive rebounds that lead to baskets, oh, there's the 14 points that we lost by. I was really disappointed that Doc didn't play Jason Collins more last night. More confused than disappointed actually. I felt that was a no brainer.
Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Rondo isn't going to keep Dwight from getting rebounds.
While these may be true, we've won games before when Howard (or someone else) got a ton of rebounds. Sometimes you stop them from doing what they want, sometimes you do other things well to offset what they're doing well.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
This is more stuff you read about on the blog than see in the games. People are talking about how great Terry is without Rondo, he was putting up the same or better numbers in November starting alongside Rondo.
i said nothing of that sort
i am saying that I like Jason getting more involved rather than just being a spot up/ray allen-esque player
if oyu check terry's stats he never flourishes in a new system until his 2nd year. no clue what you call that, but that's how i feel. he's been just as inconsistent as anyone else on the team. i'm not about to single Jason out lol
Bass on the other hand...
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I've already mentioned Barbosa, but not enough is being made of losing Barbosa... so I'm mentioning Barbosa again.
Our guard rotation was so cluttered that a talented guy like Barbosa was getting frequent DNP's for no reason. The Rondo injury hurt, but the side effect was freeing up additional minutes for Lee and Bradley... and more importantly Barbosa. Barbosa went from getting 0 to 20+ minutes. And he proved to be a double digit scorer off the bench. It allowed us to have a constant offensive attack... something that we were lacking with Rondo on the floor since Rondo isn't a great offensive player.
Losing Barbosa after losing Rondo definitely hurts more than most people want to admit. I mean it's "just Barbosa".. but during our win streak he was a key player to what was working in the wake of losing Rondo.
That and we have just lost to two quality teams. Denver is solid and the Lakers could still win a title as far as I'm concerned.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
This is more stuff you read about on the blog than see in the games. People are talking about how great Terry is without Rondo, he was putting up the same or better numbers in November starting alongside Rondo.
i said nothing of that sort
i am saying that I like Jason getting more involved rather than just being a spot up/ray allen-esque player
if oyu check terry's stats he never flourishes in a new system until his 2nd year. no clue what you call that, but that's how i feel. he's been just as inconsistent as anyone else on the team. i'm not about to single Jason out lol
Bass on the other hand...
When's the last time Terry switched teams, and how often has he done it? I don't think you can draw a ton of conclusions from that. I think that you'd have to blame Doc for Terry's role in the offense, and I think that he's taking as many spot up shots now as he did playing with Rondo.
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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol
Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.
I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.
Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.
How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.
But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?
How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team? There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.
How does having more talent not help against any team?
I swear, some people just have the shortest memories. If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.
You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak. The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?
time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.
also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.
Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.
that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.
Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.
but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.
I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms. But anyways, with more talent you can win any game. Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.
Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs. I would love that. But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.
I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...
So you're saying these issues outweigh the positive contributions he brings to the team?
clarify what you mean when you say positive contributions. like what?
Being one of the best PGs in the league? Playing at an All Star level? Being the only player on our team that consistently has attacked the basket all season?
Is this a serious question?
I feel like the first 2 are intangible that do nothing during a game. he's slacked this entire season imo. what good is having an allstar or best pg if our record is still 20-23.
when chris paul goes out, yes the clippers absolutely suck. that's easy. when felton and kidd go out, the knicks struggle.
why does our team play just as well (and to some, better?). we are 8-3 after the injury, i don't care where we won, because the truth is, our 6 game winning streak should have at least been a 10 game one.
why is it that majority of the times Rondo gets a trip dub, we lose the game?
why do we have SUCH a great player on our team, who is the leader and we HAD a losing record? and then, why do we let him take off days and by saying playoff rondo is the best rondo. i don't like that.
I don't get it.
consistently attacking the basket? no. i disagree with that.
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the dominate Rondo for past teams has been great because our talent level had been minimal. We NEEDED alot from him.
This year, not as much. this team is TALENTED. We don't need a dominate PG (or any position really) and we don't need the complicated offensive system that Doc did run. We have athleticism, creators, guys with multiple talents now that need to be given free reign. This is part of the reason I'm not mad at JET for chucking up shots...isn't that what we called him in for? He's a shooter. he's a creator. he can handle the ball. he's not a spot up shooter a la ray allen. he can play. he can run.
I would loovvveee Rondo to come back and adjust. I think it's a good thing he's out so now he can see the other teammates and come back and trust them, understand their strengths (because Rondo IS a genius and that's one thing I can give to you).
all im saying.
I don't know man, I don't understand.
And I can prove Rondo attacks the rim with stats, but you just say "no he doesn't". Check the stats:
http://www.82games.com/1213/1213BOS.HTM
Rondo
37 percent of his shots at the rim
.613 eFG percentage
5.6 Points
and only 18 percent of those attempts are assisted (meaning he is driving)
The only players who compare are Jeff Green, Pierce, and Sullinger.
Pierce doesn't shoot as high of a percentage and shoots 10 percent less of his shots there (still less points at 4.1).
Both Jeff, Pierce, and Sully are about 50 percent assisted (meaning they were set up). And of course Sully's includes scores off offensive rebounds.
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I've already mentioned Barbosa, but not enough is being made of losing Barbosa... so I'm mentioning Barbosa again.
Our guard rotation was so cluttered that a talented guy like Barbosa was getting frequent DNP's for no reason. The Rondo injury hurt, but the side effect was freeing up additional minutes for Lee and Bradley... and more importantly Barbosa. Barbosa went from getting 0 to 20+ minutes. And he proved to be a double digit scorer off the bench. It allowed us to have a constant offensive attack... something that we were lacking with Rondo on the floor since Rondo isn't a great offensive player.
Losing Barbosa after losing Rondo definitely hurts more than most people want to admit. I mean it's "just Barbosa".. but during our win streak he was a key player to what was working in the wake of losing Rondo.
That and we have just lost to two quality teams. Denver is solid and the Lakers could still win a title as far as I'm concerned.
It's true that one of the reasons the guards started playing better was more consistent minutes. We'd have seen that eventually because Doc would have sat one of Terry/Lee/Bradley and told them they wouldn't be regulars in the playoffs. Barbosa's IMO a fairly streaky scorer and was just a band-aid while Rondo was out. As for his offense compared to Rondo's, he gave us about 2 more points per 36 minutes, hardly the difference that you're claiming.
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Yes, after losing a couple of games, I admit it. Rondo means a lot to this team. But when they were winning without him, I don't admit it.
Or
I can stay away from being such a volatile fan and come to this basic conclusion. Rondo is an all-star as well as a top 5 PG. His talent is surely missed, but his style of play is not. We're moving the ball better after his injury and as a result more role players are getting touches, which creates rhythm and consistency.
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This is more stuff you read about on the blog than see in the games. People are talking about how great Terry is without Rondo, he was putting up the same or better numbers in November starting alongside Rondo.
The stuff you read on the blog actually comes from what the bloggers see in the games though. Numbers don't tell the whole story. You want to talk about Terry's numbers starting alongside Rondo in November... but you don't want to talk about Terry's numbers starting alongside Rondo in December when his efficiency was considerably lower. And Terry's second best performance in that month of November was in the Portland game that Rondo was suspended for.
Instead of talking about months, it would be more accurate to look at the actual statistics when Terry is or is not playing alongside Rondo. Over the course of November through December, when Terry averaged 11.5ppg and 2.2 apg, there were 4 games that Rondo did not play in. In those games:
11/15 - 10 pts, 6 ast
11/30 - 17 pts, 1 ast
12/1 - 15 pts, 11 ast
12/29 - 13 pts, 3 ast
Are those numbers the same as worse to the 11.5 and 2.2 with Rondo? And since Rondo's injury, he's averaged 12.2ppg and 3.2 apg while playing fewer minutes (surprisingly) than he did when starting alongside Rondo in Nov-Dec.
As for what this poster was reading from other bloggers... well bloggers get and form these opinions from watching the games. Jason Terry does look better without Rondo than he did with Rondo. It surely is a matter of opinion, but 99% of knowledgeable basketball fans will agree with that statement. Although if you really wanted to dig deep enough for the statistics (not monthly, but rather w/ vs. w/o Rondo), you would find that Terry is still, in fact, not better with Rondo.
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Rondo can't play center and guard Howard as effectively as Bass can.
Exactly. When Dwight gets 7 offensive rebounds that lead to baskets, oh, there's the 14 points that we lost by. I was really disappointed that Doc didn't play Jason Collins more last night. More confused than disappointed actually. I felt that was a no brainer.
Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Rondo isn't going to keep Dwight from getting rebounds.
While these may be true, we've won games before when Howard (or someone else) got a ton of rebounds. Sometimes you stop them from doing what they want, sometimes you do other things well to offset what they're doing well.
Very true. Given that this was a nationally televised game last night, there is a good likelihood that Rondo could have given us that last night too.
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Rondo can't play center and guard Howard as effectively as Bass can.
Exactly. When Dwight gets 7 offensive rebounds that lead to baskets, oh, there's the 14 points that we lost by. I was really disappointed that Doc didn't play Jason Collins more last night. More confused than disappointed actually. I felt that was a no brainer.
Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Rondo isn't going to keep Dwight from getting rebounds.
While these may be true, we've won games before when Howard (or someone else) got a ton of rebounds. Sometimes you stop them from doing what they want, sometimes you do other things well to offset what they're doing well.
Very true. Given that this was a nationally televised game last night, there is a good likelihood that Rondo could have given us that last night too.
Yeah, as far as you know Rondo never plays well in games that aren't on national tv.
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Yeah because, this team was playing so well when rondo was healthy.... ::) Listen, Rondo is a great player and will be missed come playoff time but lets not act like we weren't under 500 before the rondo injury.
Yea, like we didn't get to the conference finals last year with Rondo and a depleted...and years before that. ::)
Short term memory here is killing me.
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Theory vs Practice
Rondo's attributes is good in theory, but not productive in practice
In theory he has freakishly long arms, big hands, athletic, fast, passing skills, can penetrate any defense, fire in the belly, hates losing
But in practice, like what he produces on the court, isn't anywhere near his attributes
Has long arms, but has horrible perimeter defense, lets his man drive the lane constantly
Has great passing skills, but causes too many turnovers and holds the ball stifling the offense
Can penetrate any defense, but where is this skill in the fourth quarter? Scared to attack the rim because he's scared of his bad free throw shooting
Fire in the belly, but has so much temper tantrums, which costs his team to lose games. I know everyone did not forget how he cost the Celtics to lose so many games because his best friend Perk was gone, and was "sad"
I like Rondo. But the thing about him is that he doesn't take advantage of his impressive skills, and way too inconsistent. I rather just have a less talented point guard who knows his role and increases the Celtics' winning totals
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double post
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Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night
Theory vs Practice
Rondo's attributes is good in theory, but not productive in practice
In theory he has freakishly long arms, big hands, athletic, fast, passing skills, can penetrate any defense, fire in the belly, hates losing
But in practice, like what he produces on the court, isn't anywhere near his attributes
Has long arms, but has horrible perimeter defense, lets his man drive the lane constantly
Has great passing skills, but causes too many turnovers and holds the ball stifling the offense
Can penetrate any defense, but where is this skill in the fourth quarter? Scared to attack the rim because he's scared of his bad free throw shooting
Fire in the belly, but has so much temper tantrums, which costs his team to lose games. I know everyone did not forget how he cost the Celtics to lose so many games because his best friend Perk was gone, and was "sad"
I like Rondo. But the thing about him is that he doesn't take advantage of his impressive skills, and way too inconsistent. I rather just have a less talented point guard who knows his role and increases the Celtics' winning totals
Your theories are wrong. In practice he's the league leader in assists (and has been for a while), he's been 1st or 2nd team all-defense 4 years running, averaged something like 17/7/12 in the playoffs last year and led the team to the ecf. He's also typically among the league leaders in best assist/turnover ratios.
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Rondo can't play center and guard Howard as effectively as Bass can.
Exactly. When Dwight gets 7 offensive rebounds that lead to baskets, oh, there's the 14 points that we lost by. I was really disappointed that Doc didn't play Jason Collins more last night. More confused than disappointed actually. I felt that was a no brainer.
Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Rondo isn't going to keep Dwight from getting rebounds.
While these may be true, we've won games before when Howard (or someone else) got a ton of rebounds. Sometimes you stop them from doing what they want, sometimes you do other things well to offset what they're doing well.
Very true. Given that this was a nationally televised game last night, there is a good likelihood that Rondo could have given us that last night too.
Yeah, as far as you know Rondo never plays well in games that aren't on national tv.
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/004/9/9/don__t_put_words_in_mouth_by_paulinnne.jpg)
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What do you mean "is it time"? If you hadn't realized this before he went down, you are oblivious