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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: droopdog7 on February 21, 2013, 12:47:40 AM

Title: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: droopdog7 on February 21, 2013, 12:47:40 AM
I think I've seen enough to know that this team isn't good enough to compete with any of the top teams.  No size, aging stars, no interior game, no PG, no rebounding, poor three point shooting, and on and on.  Just have to ask ourselves whether a first round exit is worth it. 

The team has some decent young players.  We need to add a few more, tank for a season or two, and start rebuilding.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: dinome18 on February 21, 2013, 12:51:13 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: rondohondo on February 21, 2013, 12:52:51 AM
+1
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Banner18now! on February 21, 2013, 12:53:30 AM
As much as I would hate to see Pierce and Garnett go it has to happen.  Unless you want them to get nothing and suck for the next 10 years they have to start rebuilding now. They need to convince KG to expect a trade to the Clippers if that deal is on the table. Even if this team makes the playoffs they are 1 and done and then what? Rebuilding needs to start now!
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: droopdog7 on February 21, 2013, 12:55:03 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!
I agree.  And since there is really no way to upgrade, then there is only one way to go.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: PhoSita on February 21, 2013, 12:56:39 AM
If there are no good deals for Pierce or Garnett or Rondo, Danny must at least heavily shop Terry, Bass, Lee, and Green.  I'd be happy to see any and all of them get traded for expiring contracts, lesser prospects, and late picks.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 21, 2013, 12:56:42 AM
As much as I would hate to see Pierce and Garnett go it has to happen.  Unless you want them to get nothing and suck for the next 10 years they have to start rebuilding now. They need to convince KG to expect a trade to the Clippers if that deal is on the table. Even if this team makes the playoffs they are 1 and done and then what? Rebuilding needs to start now!

Sorry but no it doesn't.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Banner18now! on February 21, 2013, 12:58:18 AM
Really? Ok I guess you like 500 and no future. Not me, why wouldn't you get pieces for your aging stars???
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 21, 2013, 12:59:11 AM
Really? Ok I guess you like 500 and no future. Not me, why wouldn't you get pieces for your aging stars???

Nobody will offer up to their true values, pointless. No need to trade just for the sake of it.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Kane3387 on February 21, 2013, 12:59:39 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!
I agree.  And since there is really no way to upgrade, then there is only one way to go.

You don't just trade to trade.

But Bledsoe and Jordan for KG. Pierce for Smith. You have to do that. I guarantee you Ainge will have this team in contention within two seasons if these moves are made.

Rondo, Green, and Smith are a nice trio in two years in the East. Not to mention young players like Bledsoe, Jordan, Sully. Melo, and Bradley could all be very good players some of which turned into a great player.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Kane3387 on February 21, 2013, 01:00:41 AM
If there are no good deals for Pierce or Garnett or Rondo, Danny must at least heavily shop Terry, Bass, Lee, and Green.  I'd be happy to see any and all of them get traded for expiring contracts, lesser prospects, and late picks.

Not Green. Playing with Pierce hurts him. He is too quick to defer to him and it's understandable, but he's getting better every game.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: dinome18 on February 21, 2013, 01:01:50 AM
True value?? They are 35 and 36 and at this point can't carry the team on the road or to better than a 500 team. What's value for that?
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Kane3387 on February 21, 2013, 01:04:01 AM
Really? Ok I guess you like 500 and no future. Not me, why wouldn't you get pieces for your aging stars???

Nobody will offer up to their true values, pointless. No need to trade just for the sake of it.

Lets wait and see. Maybe the Clippers pick up the phone. Maybe Ferry decides to do Smith for Pierce.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: droopdog7 on February 21, 2013, 01:05:16 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!
I agree.  And since there is really no way to upgrade, then there is only one way to go.

You don't just trade to trade.

But Bledsoe and Jordan for KG. Pierce for Smith. You have to do that. I guarantee you Ainge will have this team in contention within two seasons if these moves are made.

Rondo, Green, and Smith are a nice trio in two years in the East. Not to mention young players like Bledsoe, Jordan, Sully. Melo, and Bradley could all be very good players some of which turned into a great player.
Just depends on what you're trying to do.  I might consider trading for expiring contracts and late picks just to shed salary.  Those proposed trades sound good but the pierce for smith one doesn't sound realistic.  Why would ATL do that?
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Banner18now! on February 21, 2013, 01:06:14 AM
Really? Ok I guess you like 500 and no future. Not me, why wouldn't you get pieces for your aging stars???

Nobody will offer up to their true values, pointless. No need to trade just for the sake of it.




I would take  that Clippers deal in a heart beat even if it's just Bledsoe or Jordan they are young pieces you need to acquire. This is it for Ainge if he is going to get anything  back for these guys the time is now. He holds on to them he will get nothing next year.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 21, 2013, 01:06:33 AM
Really? Ok I guess you like 500 and no future. Not me, why wouldn't you get pieces for your aging stars???

Nobody will offer up to their true values, pointless. No need to trade just for the sake of it.

Lets wait and see. Maybe the Clippers pick up the phone. Maybe Ferry decides to do Smith for Pierce.

Clips are done with us
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: rondohondo on February 21, 2013, 01:06:59 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!
I agree.  And since there is really no way to upgrade, then there is only one way to go.

You don't just trade to trade.

But Bledsoe and Jordan for KG. Pierce for Smith. You have to do that. I guarantee you Ainge will have this team in contention within two seasons if these moves are made.

Rondo, Green, and Smith are a nice trio in two years in the East. Not to mention young players like Bledsoe, Jordan, Sully. Melo, and Bradley could all be very good players some of which turned into a great player.
Just depends on what you're trying to do.  I might consider trading for expiring contracts and late picks just to shed salary.  Those proposed trades sound good but the pierce for smith one doesn't sound realistic.  Why would ATL do that?

3rd team would have to be involved in a smith/pp trade
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 21, 2013, 01:09:47 AM
As much as I would hate to see Pierce and Garnett go it has to happen.  Unless you want them to get nothing and suck for the next 10 years they have to start rebuilding now. They need to convince KG to expect a trade to the Clippers if that deal is on the table. Even if this team makes the playoffs they are 1 and done and then what? Rebuilding needs to start now!
too late to tank for a top 5 pick ... And nothing we get for them is going to help us land a superstar anytime soon.  You might get some average role players who can keep you mildly competitive,  but that's counterproductive to a proper rebuild.  Best to just let them retire in green and bottom out for a half decade.  Every year at the bottom is another shot at a franchise player.  In 20 years we might luck out
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 21, 2013, 01:10:08 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: LEHGOCELTICS on February 21, 2013, 01:11:25 AM
I just want Bledsoe man.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: LooseCannon on February 21, 2013, 01:12:42 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!

Because all other options are worse.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: droopdog7 on February 21, 2013, 01:12:47 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Um, this is not a depleted roster.  This is THE roster.  Ain't no saviors walking through that door.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 21, 2013, 01:14:04 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Um, this is not a depleted roster.  This is THE roster.  Ain't no saviors walking through that door.

When you still have 3 roster spots to fill, that's a depleted roster... in addition to 2 injured players (not counting Barbosa in this calculation). Two if you count Williams.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: GreenEnvy on February 21, 2013, 01:14:29 AM
I just want Bledsoe man.

Some on here act like he is Kyrie Irving.

And for Kevin Garnett?!?!?

Not tonight, not tomorrow, not ever.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: droopdog7 on February 21, 2013, 01:15:41 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Um, this is not a depleted roster.  This is THE roster.  Ain't no saviors walking through that door.

When you still have 3 roster spots to fill, that's a depleted roster... in addition to 2 injured players (not counting Barbosa in this calculation). Two if you count Williams.
Fill them or not, doesn't matter.  You're not going to find guys that can play anyway.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: rondohondo on February 21, 2013, 01:16:22 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Um, this is not a depleted roster.  This is THE roster.  Ain't no saviors walking through that door.

When you still have 3 roster spots to fill, that's a depleted roster... in addition to 2 injured players (not counting Barbosa in this calculation). Two if you count Williams.

So you think the people that fill those empty roster spots are actually going to change anything? ::)
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 21, 2013, 01:17:01 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Um, this is not a depleted roster.  This is THE roster.  Ain't no saviors walking through that door.

When you still have 3 roster spots to fill, that's a depleted roster... in addition to 2 injured players (not counting Barbosa in this calculation). Two if you count Williams.
Fill them or not, doesn't matter.  You're not going to find guys that can play anyway.

I'm sure will find players that will prevent Bass from playing center... that's a good start.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: ScottHow on February 21, 2013, 01:17:02 AM
Fingers have been and will continue to be crossed
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: syn2k12 on February 21, 2013, 01:17:45 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Um, this is not a depleted roster.  This is THE roster.  Ain't no saviors walking through that door.

When you still have 3 roster spots to fill, that's a depleted roster... in addition to 2 injured players (not counting Barbosa in this calculation). Two if you count Williams.

So you think the people that fill those empty roster spots are actually going to change anything? ::)

i believe so, find some good role players that box out and actually go for rebounds... we give up way to many 2nd chance points. its one of our biggest problems, and take that factor out and we win more games.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: GreenEnvy on February 21, 2013, 01:18:38 AM
As much as I would hate to see Pierce and Garnett go it has to happen.  Unless you want them to get nothing and suck for the next 10 years they have to start rebuilding now. They need to convince KG to expect a trade to the Clippers if that deal is on the table. Even if this team makes the playoffs they are 1 and done and then what? Rebuilding needs to start now!

Ironic username.

Was 'Banner18afterrebuild!' Taken?

Show me a trade that gives me any reason to believe they are championship level talent and only then will I consider trading KG/Pierce. I don't even think Rondo is on that level, so to pair him with inferior talent (sorry, not the best player on this team, never was) on large contracts sets this team up worse moving forward
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: ScottHow on February 21, 2013, 01:20:34 AM
It's been time for a while now
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Chief Macho on February 21, 2013, 01:20:50 AM
ainge screwed up putting this team together.  he thought that if nothing else,  he could trade these guys for assets.    apparently, he cannot, and is stuck with overpaid role players and ageing stars.  he was fooled by last years playoff run like most of the fan base.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Big Rondo on February 21, 2013, 01:22:02 AM
As much as I would hate to see Pierce and Garnett go it has to happen.  Unless you want them to get nothing and suck for the next 10 years they have to start rebuilding now. They need to convince KG to expect a trade to the Clippers if that deal is on the table. Even if this team makes the playoffs they are 1 and done and then what? Rebuilding needs to start now!

Ironic username.

Was 'Banner18afterrebuild!' Taken?


Show me a trade that gives me any reason to believe they are championship level talent and only then will I consider trading KG/Pierce. I don't even think Rondo is on that level, so to pair him with inferior talent (sorry, not the best player on this team, never was) on large contracts sets this team up worse moving forward

Shots fired!! Woo boy  :o

The deadline can't get here soon enough!
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: droopdog7 on February 21, 2013, 01:22:11 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Um, this is not a depleted roster.  This is THE roster.  Ain't no saviors walking through that door.

When you still have 3 roster spots to fill, that's a depleted roster... in addition to 2 injured players (not counting Barbosa in this calculation). Two if you count Williams.
Fill them or not, doesn't matter.  You're not going to find guys that can play anyway.

I'm sure will find players that will prevent Bass from playing center... that's a good start.
Youre sure?  Really?  Um, the guys you find likely will be worse than fab Melo.  And he ain't better than Bass.  Basically, anyone at least 6'10" that can walk and chew gum at the same time is ready in the league.  At this point, you'll only find guys that can do each of those one at a time.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: rondohondo on February 21, 2013, 01:24:17 AM
Meh. No need to overreact to a loss away after a back to back, with a very depleted roster, and during a game in which Doc thought it was a great idea to play Bass at the 5 through a big stretch, while Howard was on the floor.
Um, this is not a depleted roster.  This is THE roster.  Ain't no saviors walking through that door.

When you still have 3 roster spots to fill, that's a depleted roster... in addition to 2 injured players (not counting Barbosa in this calculation). Two if you count Williams.
Fill them or not, doesn't matter.  You're not going to find guys that can play anyway.

I'm sure will find players that will prevent Bass from playing center... that's a good start.
Youre sure?  Really?  Um, the guys you find likely will be worse than fab Melo.  And he ain't better than Bass.  Basically, anyone at least 6'10" that can walk and chew gum at the same time is ready in the league.  At this point, you'll only find guys that can do each of those one at a time.
yea exatcly, maybe we can pick up this years Ryan Hollins, that will surely put us in contention ;)
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Chief Macho on February 21, 2013, 01:24:35 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: ejk3489 on February 21, 2013, 01:26:24 AM
You mean this team isn't better without Rondo and Sullinger? I'm shocked.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Tradetime on February 21, 2013, 01:26:54 AM
ainge screwed up putting this team together.  he thought that if nothing else,  he could trade these guys for assets.    apparently, he cannot, and is stuck with overpaid role players and ageing stars.  he was fooled by last years playoff run like most of the fan base.

I am afraid this to be the case as well. It's been nice to see the emergence of Lee and Bradley during this stretch, but when you get waxed by the Lakers, it's time to rethink your strategy.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Big Rondo on February 21, 2013, 01:29:02 AM
ainge screwed up putting this team together.  he thought that if nothing else,  he could trade these guys for assets.    apparently, he cannot, and is stuck with overpaid role players and ageing stars.  he was fooled by last years playoff run like most of the fan base.

Nah. Ainge put together a great team on paper. People were rating his offseason work a B+/A average back in the summer and we played inspired basketball in the preseason running and moving the ball like we did after Rondo went down. It was really injuries and  Doc's blundering mismanagement that did us in. Had this team played under a system for which it was constructed, we would have won a ton more games (not to  mention playing Darko would have  made a big difference). Instead, we  played peek-a-boo, slow, half-court, rondo-dominant, small ball offense until injuries forced us to change and  by then it was too late. Can't blame Ainge for Doc's incompetence.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: PhoSita on February 21, 2013, 01:29:52 AM
ainge screwed up putting this team together.  he thought that if nothing else,  he could trade these guys for assets.    apparently, he cannot, and is stuck with overpaid role players and ageing stars.  he was fooled by last years playoff run like most of the fan base.

I am afraid this to be the case as well. It's been nice to see the emergence of Lee and Bradley during this stretch, but when you get waxed by the Lakers, it's time to rethink your strategy.

this is what worries me, too, that not only are our stars old and or injured, but the youngish role players we're paying handsomely are not easily moved in a trade and are actually viewed as negative assets by potential trade partners because of the length of their contracts.

right now the celtics have very little flexibility, which is why Ainge's first option seems to have been exploring trades for Pierce, Garnett, and even Rondo.  that's a tough place to be.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: AshyLarry on February 21, 2013, 01:31:32 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

It's called pride, respect, and patience. There's no guarantee that acquiring "young assets" will be the more ideal option.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Chief Macho on February 21, 2013, 01:35:36 AM
ainge screwed up putting this team together.  he thought that if nothing else,  he could trade these guys for assets.    apparently, he cannot, and is stuck with overpaid role players and ageing stars.  he was fooled by last years playoff run like most of the fan base.

Nah. Ainge put together a great team on paper. People were rating his offseason work a B+/A average back in the summer and we played inspired basketball in the preseason running and moving the ball like we did after Rondo went down. It was really injuries and  Doc's blundering mismanagement that did us in. Had this team played under a system for which it was constructed, we would have won a ton more games (not to  mention playing Darko would have  made a big difference). Instead, we  played peek-a-boo, slow, half-court, rondo-dominant, small ball offense until injuries forced us to change and  by then it was too late. Can't blame Ainge for Doc's incompetence.

I don't know.  It's a fair point.   I just feel like that idea is based on the belief that Pierce and Garnett are still in their prime.   If they were, then you're theory makes sense.   Those dudes can't play ball like that.   I don't think any coach makes this team a contender.  And that is the choice essentially that took place last summer, could this be a contender.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: ScottHow on February 21, 2013, 01:38:52 AM
You mean this team isn't better without Rondo and Sullinger? I'm shocked.


Lol tp
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Chief Macho on February 21, 2013, 01:40:52 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

It's called pride, respect, and patience. There's no guarantee that acquiring "young assets" will be the more ideal option.

Come on,  none of those are tangible qualities in the NBA buisness. Having any young asset gets you back faster to where I think we want to be.  It should have happened last offseason.  And it will probably end up costing Ainge his job.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: AshyLarry on February 21, 2013, 01:44:53 AM
I'm getting really sick of people confusing speculation and theory with actuality. Aka these forums haha. Chill out, and let the season ride out as the basketball gods feel it should. Enjoy what we have, if anything.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: AshyLarry on February 21, 2013, 01:50:33 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

It's called pride, respect, and patience. There's no guarantee that acquiring "young assets" will be the more ideal option.

Come on,  none of those are tangible qualities in the NBA buisness. Having any young asset gets you back faster to where I think we want to be.  It should have happened last offseason.  And it will probably end up costing Ainge his job.

There are no real tangible qualities in the NBA business. It's mostly luck and timing. For all we know, they retire, we sign a big name free agent with the new money, and bam, no one cares about trades that didn't happen. There's too many variables to be so sure.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Kane3387 on February 21, 2013, 01:50:47 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!
I agree.  And since there is really no way to upgrade, then there is only one way to go.

You don't just trade to trade.

But Bledsoe and Jordan for KG. Pierce for Smith. You have to do that. I guarantee you Ainge will have this team in contention within two seasons if these moves are made.

Rondo, Green, and Smith are a nice trio in two years in the East. Not to mention young players like Bledsoe, Jordan, Sully. Melo, and Bradley could all be very good players some of which turned into a great player.
Just depends on what you're trying to do.  I might consider trading for expiring contracts and late picks just to shed salary.  Those proposed trades sound good but the pierce for smith one doesn't sound realistic.  Why would ATL do that?

A couple reasons.

One you might sweeten it by also taking back Deshawn's Stevenson's 3 year deal at 2.5 mill per. This frees up long term money for Atlanta. Maybe you add a Fab Melo.

Two flexibility. You can have a Paul Pierce that still helps you get into the playoffs this season and thus you sell playoff tickets (straight profit for the organization), and you can decide to keep him a year if Dwight opts in with LA or chooses another destination. Thus you stay close to the Salary cap floor with a 16 million dollar expiring contract. Also you can buy him out and you aren't taking on too much money by doing so if in the trade Stevenson was moved. They cancel one another out.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: syfy9 on February 21, 2013, 01:51:06 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

It's called pride, respect, and patience. There's no guarantee that acquiring "young assets" will be the more ideal option.

Come on,  none of those are tangible qualities in the NBA buisness. Having any young asset gets you back faster to where I think we want to be.  It should have happened last offseason.  And it will probably end up costing Ainge his job.

Are you implying that we should just tank the rest of the season?
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Kane3387 on February 21, 2013, 01:53:45 AM
ainge screwed up putting this team together.  he thought that if nothing else,  he could trade these guys for assets.    apparently, he cannot, and is stuck with overpaid role players and ageing stars.  he was fooled by last years playoff run like most of the fan base.

I am afraid this to be the case as well. It's been nice to see the emergence of Lee and Bradley during this stretch, but when you get waxed by the Lakers, it's time to rethink your strategy.

In fairness Jerry Buss deserves a lot of credit for the win. They came out with emotion that we were unable and unwilling to match.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Chief Macho on February 21, 2013, 01:54:55 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

It's called pride, respect, and patience. There's no guarantee that acquiring "young assets" will be the more ideal option.

Come on,  none of those are tangible qualities in the NBA buisness. Having any young asset gets you back faster to where I think we want to be.  It should have happened last offseason.  And it will probably end up costing Ainge his job.

There are no real tangible qualities in the NBA business. It's mostly luck and timing. For all we know, they retire, we sign a big name free agent with the new money, and bam, no one cares about trades that didn't happen. There's too many variables to be so sure.

the celtics have never signed a big free agent.  right?
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: AshyLarry on February 21, 2013, 01:58:32 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

It's called pride, respect, and patience. There's no guarantee that acquiring "young assets" will be the more ideal option.

Come on,  none of those are tangible qualities in the NBA buisness. Having any young asset gets you back faster to where I think we want to be.  It should have happened last offseason.  And it will probably end up costing Ainge his job.

There are no real tangible qualities in the NBA business. It's mostly luck and timing. For all we know, they retire, we sign a big name free agent with the new money, and bam, no one cares about trades that didn't happen. There's too many variables to be so sure.

the celtics have never signed a big free agent.  right?

My point is, too many things can happen. In the NBA, one injury can mess up, or even save a franchise for years to come. People need to stop trying to predict the future, and just enjoy what we have at the moment, one way or another. Celtic Pride.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Chief Macho on February 21, 2013, 01:58:46 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

It's called pride, respect, and patience. There's no guarantee that acquiring "young assets" will be the more ideal option.

Come on,  none of those are tangible qualities in the NBA buisness. Having any young asset gets you back faster to where I think we want to be.  It should have happened last offseason.  And it will probably end up costing Ainge his job.

Are you implying that we should just tank the rest of the season?

I'm saying the goal of the boston celtics is to win a championship.  What Ainge has done by putting this team together for another "run" set them back at least a year.  Getting the 6th spot in the playoffs right now is more for revenue than winning.
 
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: colincb on February 21, 2013, 02:19:10 AM
Really? Ok I guess you like 500 and no future. Not me, why wouldn't you get pieces for your aging stars???

Nobody will offer up to their true values, pointless. No need to trade just for the sake of it.




I would take  that Clippers deal in a heart beat even if it's just Bledsoe or Jordan they are young pieces you need to acquire. This is it for Ainge if he is going to get anything  back for these guys the time is now. He holds on to them he will get nothing next year.
It's better to not do a deal, than do a bad one. These are not good deals that teams are pitching us.

What we want if we're blowing things up are young players with upside, expiring contracts, and picks.  The Clippers are offering a bad contract in Jordan who with 5 years in the NBA may not have much upside and a young player in Bledsoe with upside who has only one year left on his rookie contract. The Nets are offering us (and everyone else) a worse contract in Humphries, a player who can't get on the court in Brooks, and a late first.

Neither deal fits the classic trade you want to make for guys like KG and PP. So if we get nothing, that's still a better result than getting crap that you're on the hook to pay for anyhow.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: BballTim on February 21, 2013, 04:32:06 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

It's called pride, respect, and patience. There's no guarantee that acquiring "young assets" will be the more ideal option.

Come on,  none of those are tangible qualities in the NBA buisness. Having any young asset gets you back faster to where I think we want to be.  It should have happened last offseason.  And it will probably end up costing Ainge his job.

Are you implying that we should just tank the rest of the season?

I'm saying the goal of the boston celtics is to win a championship.  What Ainge has done by putting this team together for another "run" set them back at least a year.  Getting the 6th spot in the playoffs right now is more for revenue than winning.
 

  If rebuilding took a set amount of time then you could argue that another "run" sets the team back a year. That's not necessarily the case.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 21, 2013, 04:52:41 AM
As much as I would hate to see Pierce and Garnett go it has to happen.  Unless you want them to get nothing and suck for the next 10 years they have to start rebuilding now. They need to convince KG to expect a trade to the Clippers if that deal is on the table. Even if this team makes the playoffs they are 1 and done and then what? Rebuilding needs to start now!

Rebuilding starts when KG and Pierce retires.

With what we are getting for Paul and KG, we'd be better off with them and what they can offer, fully reload for ONE FINAL STAND next year and start rebuilding with a core of Rondo, Bradley, Green and Sully. We will have cap room and those assets to work with.

I'd rather have that than Bledsoe (he's good but he's going to be paid a ton), DeAndre Jordan and whatever we can get for Pierce, in bad contracts.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: j804 on February 21, 2013, 06:24:30 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!
I agree.  And since there is really no way to upgrade, then there is only one way to go.
maybe he wants to try and make the playoffs, be competitive, and do deals in the offseason when he can get better value them just doing things to do them now (showcase guys like Bass and Green)?
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: j804 on February 21, 2013, 06:26:12 AM
ainge screwed up putting this team together.  he thought that if nothing else,  he could trade these guys for assets.    apparently, he cannot, and is stuck with overpaid role players and ageing stars.  he was fooled by last years playoff run like most of the fan base.

I am afraid this to be the case as well. It's been nice to see the emergence of Lee and Bradley during this stretch, but when you get waxed by the Lakers, it's time to rethink your strategy.

In fairness Jerry Buss deserves a lot of credit for the win. They came out with emotion that we were unable and unwilling to match.
coming off the b2b as well and the refs were pretty disgusting they weren't going to let LA lose today for nothing.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: tyrone biggums on February 21, 2013, 06:27:54 AM
I just want Bledsoe man.

Bledsoe isn't Rondo or Irving or Rose...he is currently CP3's backup that has potential to be good. Jordan is an overrated player on a bad contract...why do we want to trade KG for them? The Celtics will do something...they've now lost a few games in a row but I wouldn't read too much into tonight as they were operating on a back to back they have a 10 or 11 man roster right now. The Celtics problems could be fixed as easy as making a deal for Gortat. This team doesn't need to be blown up yet
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: tyrone biggums on February 21, 2013, 06:32:41 AM
As much as I would hate to see Pierce and Garnett go it has to happen.  Unless you want them to get nothing and suck for the next 10 years they have to start rebuilding now. They need to convince KG to expect a trade to the Clippers if that deal is on the table. Even if this team makes the playoffs they are 1 and done and then what? Rebuilding needs to start now!

Remind me again why having KG and Pierce retire as Celtics would start this chain reaction where it would automatically make the Celtics suck the next decade? Maybe it would effect the team for a year or two but 10!!??? Come on man...as long as they draft well they'll be fine
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 21, 2013, 06:33:17 AM
I just want Bledsoe man.

Bledsoe isn't Rondo or Irving or Rose...he is currently CP3's backup that has potential to be good. Jordan is an overrated player on a bad contract...why do we want to trade KG for them? The Celtics will do something...they've now lost a few games in a row but I wouldn't read too much into tonight as they were operating on a back to back they have a 10 or 11 man roster right now. The Celtics problems could be fixed as easy as making a deal for Gortat. This team doesn't need to be blown up yet

So what, bledsoe is a backup to the best point guard in the league, and? If this team stays as is I will be really disappointed. We have no chance at a championship. If we can make some trades for some good talent Id do it. Watching this team be the atlanta hawks of the NBA is not fun.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: mctyson on February 21, 2013, 06:48:50 AM
I don't understand why ainge or anyone else for that matter thinks it's a good idea to stand pat?!

Because all other options are worse.

And because he gave KG a no-trade clause to convince him to come back.  So, standing pat is really not just Danny's decision.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: mctyson on February 21, 2013, 06:50:59 AM
As much as I would hate to see Pierce and Garnett go it has to happen.  Unless you want them to get nothing and suck for the next 10 years they have to start rebuilding now. They need to convince KG to expect a trade to the Clippers if that deal is on the table. Even if this team makes the playoffs they are 1 and done and then what? Rebuilding needs to start now!

Sorry but no it doesn't.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: mctyson on February 21, 2013, 06:54:50 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

Not when you have a business to run, and you have been packing the Garden since 2008 for every home game.  You think Wyc + Co. just want to "blow it up" and acquire "young assets" or think "something is better than nothing" when they know KG and Pierce and the current team (with or without Rondo) will go hard, be competitive and make the playoffs?

Do you think they want to be the Raptors?
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: tyrone biggums on February 21, 2013, 07:56:48 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

Not when you have a business to run, and you have been packing the Garden since 2008 for every home game.  You think Wyc + Co. just want to "blow it up" and acquire "young assets" or think "something is better than nothing" when they know KG and Pierce and the current team (with or without Rondo) will go hard, be competitive and make the playoffs?

Do you think they want to be the Raptors?

Agreed, although posters here would probably prefer the Raptors or LOLCats roster to ours it really isn't that bad. The team needs to add bodies and while KG and Pierce are healthy it's a championship core. You add someone like Smoothe to the mix without dealing KG or Pierce and you're competing for a title. The fact in the NBA is that very few teams ever get that championship window, you need to take advantage. Pierre's contract runs through next year and he'll probably retire...same with KG...Rondo's contract I think is up then too...the summer of 2014 is supposedly a pretty good free agent class...would you trade that flexibility for the right to add Jordan? Is Bledsoe really that good? If they keep KG and Pierce it will not set them back at all. It's still a fairly attractive destination (Rivers, Titles) that players want to play at. I'm tired of posters making it look like Boston is in Siberia and that no one wants to go there....stop crying and enjoy one of those rare title windows.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: tyrone biggums on February 21, 2013, 08:03:12 AM
I just want Bledsoe man.

Bledsoe isn't Rondo or Irving or Rose...he is currently CP3's backup that has potential to be good. Jordan is an overrated player on a bad contract...why do we want to trade KG for them? The Celtics will do something...they've now lost a few games in a row but I wouldn't read too much into tonight as they were operating on a back to back they have a 10 or 11 man roster right now. The Celtics problems could be fixed as easy as making a deal for Gortat. This team doesn't need to be blown up yet

So what, bledsoe is a backup to the best point guard in the league, and? If this team stays as is I will be really disappointed. We have no chance at a championship. If we can make some trades for some good talent Id do it. Watching this team be the atlanta hawks of the NBA is not fun.

You understand the difference between this team and the Hawks, correct? The Hawks were mismanaged for years because of an unstable ownership situation which forced them to give out the worst max contract in recent memory that would still be on the roster if Billy King didn't get rehired. Two completely different situations, but some of these proposals would make us the Atlanta Hawks by taking on bad contracts (Jordan) and late round picks. As you said "Bledsoe is a backup PG" so why the hell are we trading KG for a backup PG and a bad contract? By the way I disagree that this team could be fixed with a Gortat deal...less wear and tear on KG at the 5 but the lineup would be much more efficient by jettisoning Bass for a much more talented player. You get a real center in here and the window is wide open again.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: wdleehi on February 21, 2013, 08:24:18 AM
If many of the trades rumored happens, we will be in misery.



I just keep seeing the Knicks at the end of Ewings run.  They traded their older players towards the end of their contracts for "nice" players making "great" money for longer periods of time.  How long did it take the Knicks to dig out of that mess? 



Sometimes, you just have to let a team die of natural causes.  Sure, you do the smaller stuff (trimming the higher payed role players) but let the big stuff expire on it's own. 
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Evantime34 on February 21, 2013, 08:41:29 AM
To me the best course of action is to blow it up... If we can get decent value for pierce and kg. That is a big if since few teams are willing to give up young assets in this climate. If we can't get good value it makes more sense to keep them and use their cap space after they retire to end the year, that space is more valuable than a bad trade offer
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: cltc5 on February 21, 2013, 09:28:21 AM
We've been in need of a big since dic ran darko outta town.  Either get us a big or get rid of doc.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Fafnir on February 21, 2013, 09:30:40 AM
We've been in need of a big since dic ran darko outta town.  Either get us a big or get rid of doc.
Darko the greatest center that never got off the bench....
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: PhoSita on February 21, 2013, 10:01:33 AM
If many of the trades rumored happens, we will be in misery.



I just keep seeing the Knicks at the end of Ewings run.  They traded their older players towards the end of their contracts for "nice" players making "great" money for longer periods of time.  How long did it take the Knicks to dig out of that mess? 



Sometimes, you just have to let a team die of natural causes.  Sure, you do the smaller stuff (trimming the higher payed role players) but let the big stuff expire on it's own.

Another false analogy.

The Knicks were so bad for so long because Isiah.  No further argument is required.

Isiah.

Are the Celtics going to hire Isiah as GM?   
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: Fafnir on February 21, 2013, 10:03:05 AM
If many of the trades rumored happens, we will be in misery.



I just keep seeing the Knicks at the end of Ewings run.  They traded their older players towards the end of their contracts for "nice" players making "great" money for longer periods of time.  How long did it take the Knicks to dig out of that mess? 



Sometimes, you just have to let a team die of natural causes.  Sure, you do the smaller stuff (trimming the higher payed role players) but let the big stuff expire on it's own.

Another false analogy.

The Knicks were so bad for so long because Isiah.  No further argument is required.

Isiah.

Are the Celtics going to hire Isiah as GM?
He's saying that's an Isiah as GM type move, Isiah didn't make them bad because of his sexual harrassing or his aura. He made them bad with his bad moves.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: PhoSita on February 21, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
I don't get the value argument?  Isn't something better than nothing?  The only reason danny is keeping these guys is to keep pretending they have a chance to sell tickets to suckers and nostalgia.

Not when you have a business to run, and you have been packing the Garden since 2008 for every home game.  You think Wyc + Co. just want to "blow it up" and acquire "young assets" or think "something is better than nothing" when they know KG and Pierce and the current team (with or without Rondo) will go hard, be competitive and make the playoffs?

Do you think they want to be the Raptors?

No, I think they'd rather be the Hawks for a few years than be the Magic or the Hornets for a while after next season.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: PhoSita on February 21, 2013, 10:07:28 AM
If many of the trades rumored happens, we will be in misery.



I just keep seeing the Knicks at the end of Ewings run.  They traded their older players towards the end of their contracts for "nice" players making "great" money for longer periods of time.  How long did it take the Knicks to dig out of that mess? 



Sometimes, you just have to let a team die of natural causes.  Sure, you do the smaller stuff (trimming the higher payed role players) but let the big stuff expire on it's own.

Another false analogy.

The Knicks were so bad for so long because Isiah.  No further argument is required.

Isiah.

Are the Celtics going to hire Isiah as GM?
He's saying that's an Isiah as GM type move, Isiah didn't make them bad because of his sexual harrassing or his aura. He made them bad with his bad moves.

I understand, but I disagree. 

If all the Celtics ever did was trade for or sign players like Jordan and Smith to bigger deals, then they'd probably be mired in mediocrity.  But such a move at this juncture would simply be about positioning the team to have significant trade assets beyond this season or next. 

It doesn't mean their entire organizational philosophy suddenly shifts.  The reasoning just doesn't follow for me that because you look to get what you can out of KG and Pierce before they retire that you're going to commit to mediocrity long term. 

I would agree with that reasoning if I thought the Celtics were trying to make such a trade because they actually believed a core of Rondo / Green / Smith / Jordan is going to win anything of consequence.  That would be madness.  But I don't think that's what's going on.
Title: Re: The "blow up the team" merged thread
Post by: wdleehi on February 21, 2013, 10:16:11 AM
If many of the trades rumored happens, we will be in misery.



I just keep seeing the Knicks at the end of Ewings run.  They traded their older players towards the end of their contracts for "nice" players making "great" money for longer periods of time.  How long did it take the Knicks to dig out of that mess? 



Sometimes, you just have to let a team die of natural causes.  Sure, you do the smaller stuff (trimming the higher payed role players) but let the big stuff expire on it's own.

Another false analogy.

The Knicks were so bad for so long because Isiah.  No further argument is required.

Isiah.

Are the Celtics going to hire Isiah as GM?


Isiah wasn't he GM at the time.  He came in later to the mess that was left over and compounded it by doing more of the same. 



And lets be honest, the players those Knicks teams brought in were probably thought higher of then who the Celtics may bring in.  (Rice, Marbury)