CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: gar on February 20, 2013, 01:58:07 PM
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Now that J. Green is up and running at a decent clip. Why can't we get Wilcox going. He has not been getting much run and can spell Bass and Garnett. Would rather see more Wilcox and less Collins.
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Would rather see more Wilcox and less Collins.
No joke. I can't believe Collins is getting more burn than C-Dub. Wilcox is never gonna find his rhythm if Doc never gives him enough run.
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I was really sad when I opened this post and there wasn't a giant color drawing with lots of people in it.
I don't want others to have the same disappointment-
(http://www.z89online.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Wheres-Waldo.jpg)
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Not sure where he has been this season. Seems a little lost in general
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins. I liked the Collins signing, but if he's going to be used this way, we need to trade him ASAP just to prevent Doc from misusing him.
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins.
You're right. I mean, Doc seems to want to run smaller lineups and shun legit size, so what does he do? He trots out Collins, who runs like a slug, and keeps the fleet-footed, above-the-rim Wilcox on ice.
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins. I liked the Collins signing, but if he's going to be used this way, we need to trade him ASAP just to prevent Doc from misusing him.
It's just Doc's love of veterans. He'd rather have the guy who's consistently below-average than a rookie who shows flashes of greatness but is totally lost 50% of the time. Not saying he's right or wrong but that's how he does it.
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins. I liked the Collins signing, but if he's going to be used this way, we need to trade him ASAP just to prevent Doc from misusing him.
Wanting a C who makes rotations is a disgusting desire.
Wilcox was pretty useful with Rondo around to manufacture him some dunks. But in the halfcourt without Rondo he's just not going to get it done.
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins. I liked the Collins signing, but if he's going to be used this way, we need to trade him ASAP just to prevent Doc from misusing him.
It's just Doc's love of veterans. He'd rather have the guy who's consistently below-average than a rookie who shows flashes of greatness but is totally lost 50% of the time. Not saying he's right or wrong but that's how he does it.
Wilcox has been in the league only one year less than Collins. Doc definitely values being able to correctly rotate on defense. Collins played 11 minutes to Wilcox's 10 for what its worth.
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Where is Wilcox
Exactly where he should be, playing approximately 10 minutes per game.
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins. I liked the Collins signing, but if he's going to be used this way, we need to trade him ASAP just to prevent Doc from misusing him.
Wanting a C who makes rotations is a disgusting desire.
Wilcox was pretty useful with Rondo around to manufacture him some dunks. But in the halfcourt without Rondo he's just not going to get it done.
Collins' defensive rotations over Wilcox is not much of a difference maker, Collins does a lot of mistakes too, and slow to recover. Collins defense is not good, unless he's guarding a banger like Howard. In just about most other cases, he's been out-matched.
I'll take the vastly superior efficiency from Wilcox offensively, and better rebounding, and better floor runner. I don't see what Rondo has to do with it, Wilcox's role and impact hasn't changed with or without Rondo, in part because he benefits from pick-and-roll options with Pierce and Terry, and from the better ball movement we're seeing.
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins. I liked the Collins signing, but if he's going to be used this way, we need to trade him ASAP just to prevent Doc from misusing him.
It's just Doc's love of veterans. He'd rather have the guy who's consistently below-average than a rookie who shows flashes of greatness but is totally lost 50% of the time. Not saying he's right or wrong but that's how he does it.
Wilcox has been in the league only one year less than Collins. Doc definitely values being able to correctly rotate on defense. Collins played 11 minutes to Wilcox's 10 for what its worth.
My comment wasn't so much about "Why is Collins playing over Wilcox?" as much as it was "Why is Collins playing at all?" :)
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins. I liked the Collins signing, but if he's going to be used this way, we need to trade him ASAP just to prevent Doc from misusing him.
Wanting a C who makes rotations is a disgusting desire.
Wilcox was pretty useful with Rondo around to manufacture him some dunks. But in the halfcourt without Rondo he's just not going to get it done.
Collins' defensive rotations over Wilcox is not much of a difference maker, Collins does a lot of mistakes too, and slow to recover. Collins defense is not good, unless he's guarding a banger like Howard. In just about most other cases, he's been out-matched.
I'll take the vastly superior efficiency from Wilcox offensively, and better rebounding, and better floor runner. I don't see what Rondo has to do with it, Wilcox's role and impact hasn't changed with or without Rondo, in part because he benefits from pick-and-roll options with Pierce and Terry, and from the better ball movement we're seeing.
Neither of them is very good. Unfortunately, both have to play, because we're down to 4 healthy big men.
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins. I liked the Collins signing, but if he's going to be used this way, we need to trade him ASAP just to prevent Doc from misusing him.
Wanting a C who makes rotations is a disgusting desire.
Wilcox was pretty useful with Rondo around to manufacture him some dunks. But in the halfcourt without Rondo he's just not going to get it done.
Collins' defensive rotations over Wilcox is not much of a difference maker, Collins does a lot of mistakes too, and slow to recover. Collins defense is not good, unless he's guarding a banger like Howard. In just about most other cases, he's been out-matched.
I'll take the vastly superior efficiency from Wilcox offensively, and better rebounding, and better floor runner. I don't see what Rondo has to do with it, Wilcox's role and impact hasn't changed with or without Rondo, in part because he benefits from pick-and-roll options with Pierce and Terry, and from the better ball movement we're seeing.
Neither of them is very good. Unfortunately, both have to play, because we're down to 4 healthy big men.
Not when the minutes are going to Green at the 4, and Bass at the 5. It's an either or with Collins and Wilcox. So no, both don't have to play.
Now, if Doc stopped using Bass at the 5, then we can talk.
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Where is Wilcox
Exactly where he should be, playing approximately 10 minutes per game.
Yeah as much as I like Wilcox he just isnt that good. He is a hustler and can play above the rim, good on the pick and roll. Other than that he is pretty average.
Lets not forget he did have heart surgery last year and was out for 6 weeks with injury. Im hoping playoff time we will see some good Wilcox hustle and pick and roll play for ten to fifteen minutes a game.
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Doc has an undeniable, disgusting infatuation with Collins.
You're right. I mean, Doc seems to want to run smaller lineups and shun legit size, so what does he do? He trots out Collins, who runs like a slug, and keeps the fleet-footed, above-the-rim Wilcox on ice.
This too is also part of the problem.
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I've been starting to think that Doc is somewhat saving Wilcox for the playoffs. He's easily our 3rd best big, but he's also kinda injury prone. With only 4 bigs we really can't afford to afford to lose him, nor can we afford to give such a big liability on offense and on the boards in Collins this many minutes in the playoffs.
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i was thinking that too.. plus i think his thumb is not 100%
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I think Doc just doesn't have any confidence in him.
I think Wilcox is going to have to stay patient and wait for the opportunities to come up to convince Doc otherwise. He has a long way road to climb.
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I think Doc just doesn't have any confidence in him.
I think Wilcox is going to have to stay patient and wait for the opportunities to come up to convince Doc otherwise. He has a long way road to climb.
If you were in Doc's place would you have more confidence in Collins? I don't understand Doc sometimes.
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Wilcox is top-20 in the league in a lot of stats, I believe
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I think Doc just doesn't have any confidence in him.
I think Wilcox is going to have to stay patient and wait for the opportunities to come up to convince Doc otherwise. He has a long way road to climb.
If you were in Doc's place would you have more confidence in Collins? I don't understand Doc sometimes.
I think Doc likes having his size out there. Legitimate 7 footer at the rim.
Doc seemed really shook by how badly they were defending with their smaller lineups earlier in the season. I think Collins with his size and has just become a false-confidence type situation for Doc.
And I think it;s going to take some really good play from Chris Wilcox to get Doc out of this false idea ... and Wilcox just needs to stay ready until that opportunity comes. Plenty of time between now and playoffs. It'll come at some point.
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Wilcox and collins both suck. At least collins plays defense tho.
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I think Doc just doesn't have any confidence in him.
I think Wilcox is going to have to stay patient and wait for the opportunities to come up to convince Doc otherwise. He has a long way road to climb.
If you were in Doc's place would you have more confidence in Collins? I don't understand Doc sometimes.
I think Doc likes having his size out there. Legitimate 7 footer at the rim.
Doc seemed really shook by how badly they were defending with their smaller lineups earlier in the season. I think Collins with his size and has just become a false-confidence type situation for Doc.
And I think it;s going to take some really good play from Chris Wilcox to get Doc out of this false idea.
Collins is not bad himself, when he plays 10mpg. I think that's fine.
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I've been starting to think that Doc is somewhat saving Wilcox for the playoffs. He's easily our 3rd best big, but he's also kinda injury prone. With only 4 bigs we really can't afford to afford to lose him, nor can we afford to give such a big liability on offense and on the boards in Collins this many minutes in the playoffs.
You're giving doc too much credit.
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I think Doc just doesn't have any confidence in him.
I think Wilcox is going to have to stay patient and wait for the opportunities to come up to convince Doc otherwise. He has a long way road to climb.
If you were in Doc's place would you have more confidence in Collins? I don't understand Doc sometimes.
I think Doc likes having his size out there. Legitimate 7 footer at the rim.
Doc seemed really shook by how badly they were defending with their smaller lineups earlier in the season. I think Collins with his size and has just become a false-confidence type situation for Doc.
That's a very astute observation.
Mike
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Neither of them is very good. Unfortunately, both have to play, because we're down to 4 healthy big men.
Not when the minutes are going to Green at the 4, and Bass at the 5. It's an either or with Collins and Wilcox. So no, both don't have to play.
Now, if Doc stopped using Bass at the 5, then we can talk.
Um, no. Garnett and Bass are good for approximately 60 minutes a game. Maybe 65.
The sad reality is we have to give Wilcox and Bass ~10 mins each, and then still have Green in for mop-up duty at the 4.
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Neither of them is very good. Unfortunately, both have to play, because we're down to 4 healthy big men.
Not when the minutes are going to Green at the 4, and Bass at the 5. It's an either or with Collins and Wilcox. So no, both don't have to play.
Now, if Doc stopped using Bass at the 5, then we can talk.
Um, no. Garnett and Bass are good for approximately 60 minutes a game. Maybe 65.
The sad reality is we have to give Wilcox and Bass ~10 mins each, and then still have Green in for mop-up duty at the 4.
I assume the last "Bass" was meant to be "Collins".
Don't see your reasoning behind the need to split the minutes between Wilcox and Collins. Wilcox can play 20 minutes and give zero minutes to Collins, maybe the occasional 5 minutes if the unit calls for it.
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Neither of them is very good. Unfortunately, both have to play, because we're down to 4 healthy big men.
Not when the minutes are going to Green at the 4, and Bass at the 5. It's an either or with Collins and Wilcox. So no, both don't have to play.
Now, if Doc stopped using Bass at the 5, then we can talk.
Um, no. Garnett and Bass are good for approximately 60 minutes a game. Maybe 65.
The sad reality is we have to give Wilcox and Bass ~10 mins each, and then still have Green in for mop-up duty at the 4.
I assume the last "Bass" was meant to be "Collins".
Don't see your reasoning behind the need to split the minutes between Wilcox and Collins. Wilcox can play 20 minutes and give zero minutes to Collins, maybe the occasional 5 minutes if the unit calls for it.
Yes, Collins.
I assumed the discussion is why you need to play both, and the simple answer is "not enough bodies".
And typically the need to split time comes because players -- and especially big men -- typically only play in 8-minute stretches. This, and pairings.
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I've been starting to think that Doc is somewhat saving Wilcox for the playoffs. He's easily our 3rd best big, but he's also kinda injury prone. With only 4 bigs we really can't afford to afford to lose him, nor can we afford to give such a big liability on offense and on the boards in Collins this many minutes in the playoffs.
You're giving doc too much credit.
We only have 9 players, we really should be using him. It's an EMERGENCY
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Neither of them is very good. Unfortunately, both have to play, because we're down to 4 healthy big men.
Not when the minutes are going to Green at the 4, and Bass at the 5. It's an either or with Collins and Wilcox. So no, both don't have to play.
Now, if Doc stopped using Bass at the 5, then we can talk.
Um, no. Garnett and Bass are good for approximately 60 minutes a game. Maybe 65.
The sad reality is we have to give Wilcox and Bass ~10 mins each, and then still have Green in for mop-up duty at the 4.
I assume the last "Bass" was meant to be "Collins".
Don't see your reasoning behind the need to split the minutes between Wilcox and Collins. Wilcox can play 20 minutes and give zero minutes to Collins, maybe the occasional 5 minutes if the unit calls for it.
Yes, Collins.
I assumed the discussion is why you need to play both, and the simple answer is "not enough bodies".
And typically the need to split time comes because players -- and especially big men -- typically only play in 8-minute stretches. This, and pairings.
My side of the discussion is why play Collins at all, instead of giving Wilcox more of his minutes, and only use Collins in specific situations. As it stands, Doc is using Collins in a rotation role, which makes little sense to me... unless Doc stops using Bass at the 5 (which is an awful decision in my opinion), and even then Wilcox should be the first guy up.
What I've meant to say is that the only way Collins should be getting on the floor is for a specific defensive assignment, and to prevent Bass from playing center.
That said, particularly in 2nd half of games, whatever extra minutes there are to be used will either go to Wilcox or Collins, there usually isn't enough to split between the two, and for some reason Collins is the player whose name is usually called.
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Doc should make sure Colllins gets regular minutes right now to make sure that he is in game shape for the playoffs, unless you expect KG and Bass to never get in foul trouble or that the addition of Terrance Williams means the team should be spending more time on getting PT for various smallball lineups, including PP at the 4 and TWill at the 3 while KG sits.
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Doc should make sure Colllins gets regular minutes right now
Regular minutes hopefully equals about 10-15 at most