CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rutzan on February 19, 2013, 07:45:06 PM
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Let's put the Rebuilding Myth to rest once and for all:
Knicks: relevant for the 1st time since ewing left in 2000
Nets: somewhat relevant for the 1st time since NBA Finals in 2003
Sixers: ask philly fans how it's been going since AI left in 2006
Raptors: tried to build around tmac, carter, bosh and now bargani...that's turned out real well...
Pacers: ask indy fans how its' been since miller left in 2005...oh, that's right...the malice in the palace team...
Bulls: remember when they tried to build around brand, chandler, tyrus thomas...now boozer and noah...oh yeah...this is year 5 of the rose era
Bucks: really not much to say is there?
Detroit: villanueva and gordon turned out real well, didn't they?
Cle: couldn't win with the king...irving is a great player in yr 2 but prob won't make any noise unless the king comes back
Cheat: enough said
Hawks: nice teams but can you really remember anything about them?
Wizards: completely embarrassing
Magic: what do they have to show for shaq and howard...a couple of finals appearances which actually puts them at the top of list...but...what is left in the cupboard now...not much...unless you're a big baby fan...
Charlotte: MJ...wow
Spurs: class
Memphis: surprisingly well especially for expansion team
Hou: maybe they get something started with harden and lin...who knows
Dallas: dirk is 35...ouch
NO: stern at his best
OKC: the gold standard of rebuilding...went to finals in durant's 5th yr
Denver: nice team but will be stuck in the middle of the pack
Utah: what happened after stockton and malone...williams and boozer are now gone...with big al soon to follow,,,
Portland: the most cursed team in nba history with injuries
Minny: minny has never been the same since kg left...yeah, love and rubio...if they can stay healthy
Clippers: relevant for the 1st time...ever...
Warriors: not much since mullins, hardaway and richmond but they have the 49's
Lakers: gotta give them props for the banners but their time is coming to an end very soon
Kings: what has happened since cwebb, vlade, peja, bibby...nothing
Suns: we loved you with nash...where are grant hill, amare, joe johnson, marion...gone
i give credit to the spurs and lakers for staying at the top
i only give props to one team for rebuilding, that is, okc
most teams failed to rebuild...miserably...
with a few lucky teams stuck in middle seed purgatory...
this talk of rebuilding now is delusional thinking...a byproduct of 21st century thinking, that is, i need and want it now and i refuse to be patient...
do you really think bledose and jordan are franchise players?
heck, most people call smith a borderline all-star and he wants max money...
you can re-build in a couple of years when kg and the capt retire...
our best and only shot is with kg and the capt
for now...enjoy the ride...and yes...we have a chance to win it all this year...
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Somebody basically made this THREAD* a couple days ago.
*I had trades on the brain.
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
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sure he could do it again...i would love him to...but...bledsoe, jordan and smith can't hold kg's or ray allen's jockstraps...you don't give up kg and the capt for middle of the road players...ainge didn't just rebuild...he caught lightning in a bottle and got 2 HOF...bledsoe, jordan and smith will prob never sniff the hof...why rebuild with middle of the road players and get stuck in middle seed purgatory when you still have a chance with kg and the capt this year...you can always start your 4-5 yr rebuild in a couple of yrs......and...the new cba has changed things dramatically
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Let's put the Rebuilding Myth to rest once and for all:
Knicks: relevant for the 1st time since ewing left in 2000
Nets: somewhat relevant for the 1st time since NBA Finals in 2003
Sixers: ask philly fans how it's been going since AI left in 2006
Raptors: tried to build around tmac, carter, bosh and now bargani...that's turned out real well...
Pacers: ask indy fans how its' been since miller left in 2005...oh, that's right...the malice in the palace team...
Bulls: remember when they tried to build around brand, chandler, tyrus thomas...now boozer and noah...oh yeah...this is year 5 of the rose era
Bucks: really not much to say is there?
Detroit: villanueva and gordon turned out real well, didn't they?
Cle: couldn't win with the king...irving is a great player in yr 2 but prob won't make any noise unless the king comes back
Cheat: enough said
Hawks: nice teams but can you really remember anything about them?
Wizards: completely embarrassing
Magic: what do they have to show for shaq and howard...a couple of finals appearances which actually puts them at the top of list...but...what is left in the cupboard now...not much...unless you're a big baby fan...
Charlotte: MJ...wow
Spurs: class
Memphis: surprisingly well especially for expansion team
Hou: maybe they get something started with harden and lin...who knows
Dallas: dirk is 35...ouch
NO: stern at his best
OKC: the gold standard of rebuilding...went to finals in durant's 5th yr
Denver: nice team but will be stuck in the middle of the pack
Utah: what happened after stockton and malone...williams and boozer are now gone...with big al soon to follow,,,
Portland: the most cursed team in nba history with injuries
Minny: minny has never been the same since kg left...yeah, love and rubio...if they can stay healthy
Clippers: relevant for the 1st time...ever...
Warriors: not much since mullins, hardaway and richmond but they have the 49's
Lakers: gotta give them props for the banners but their time is coming to an end very soon
Kings: what has happened since cwebb, vlade, peja, bibby...nothing
Suns: we loved you with nash...where are grant hill, amare, joe johnson, marion...gone
i give credit to the spurs and lakers for staying at the top
i only give props to one team for rebuilding, that is, okc
most teams failed to rebuild...miserably...
with a few lucky teams stuck in middle seed purgatory...
this talk of rebuilding now is delusional thinking...a byproduct of 21st century thinking, that is, i need and want it now and i refuse to be patient...
do you really think bledose and jordan are franchise players?
heck, most people call smith a borderline all-star and he wants max money...
you can re-build in a couple of years when kg and the capt retire...
our best and only shot is with kg and the capt
for now...enjoy the ride...and yes...we have a chance to win it all this year...
Wish I can give you 10 TPs
Its the era of microwave thinking. No one ever sees the big picture. Patience isn't valued
Pierce and KG are doing well this season. Whats wrong with just adding a center who can score and rebound?
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It's funny how so many fans want us to forego trading KG and PP for good young players with potential and/or picks and say just wait til they retire and then start rebuilding---but with what?? Then you get no players or picks, and then have to wait an ADDITIONAL YEAR being bad to get a chance at a lottery pick. So then it's three years to BEGIN rebuilding, all the while til then having no chance at a title!
Let all these same fans put some rebuilding plan out there that they would do a couple of years from now when KG and Paul would retire! Nothing to trade, no lottery picks, and cap room to spend---but what star/s want to come to a team in total rebuild mode? Lets hear these plans!
Me, I get valuable trade chips and start collecting assets now. Then Danny can pounce when an opportunity arises like it did with Ray and KG. Be ready.
But I'm definitely willing to listen to a well laid out plan, if somebody has one, with some specific ideas.
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It's funny how so many fans want us to forego trading KG and PP for good young players with potential and/or picks and say just wait til they retire and then start rebuilding---but with what?? Then you get no players or picks, and then have to wait an ADDITIONAL YEAR being bad to get a chance at a lottery pick. So then it's three years to BEGIN rebuilding, all the while til then having no chance at a title!
Let all these same fans put some rebuilding plan out there that they would do a couple of years from now when KG and Paul would retire! Nothing to trade, no lottery picks, and cap room to spend---but what star/s want to come to a team in total rebuild mode? Lets hear these plans!
Me, I get valuable trade chips and start collecting assets now. Then Danny can pounce when an opportunity arises like it did with Ray and KG. Be ready.
But I'm definitely willing to listen to a well laid out plan, if somebody has one, with some specific ideas.
Explain to me how Deandre Jordan is a valuable asset to move in a rebuild to get us back to a championship.
Noone has yet.
Bledsoe was never included in a deal for KG by clippers management.
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It's funny how so many fans want us to forego trading KG and PP for good young players with potential and/or picks and say just wait til they retire and then start rebuilding---but with what?? Then you get no players or picks, and then have to wait an ADDITIONAL YEAR being bad to get a chance at a lottery pick. So then it's three years to BEGIN rebuilding, all the while til then having no chance at a title!
Let all these same fans put some rebuilding plan out there that they would do a couple of years from now when KG and Paul would retire! Nothing to trade, no lottery picks, and cap room to spend---but what star/s want to come to a team in total rebuild mode? Lets hear these plans!
Me, I get valuable trade chips and start collecting assets now. Then Danny can pounce when an opportunity arises like it did with Ray and KG. Be ready.
But I'm definitely willing to listen to a well laid out plan, if somebody has one, with some specific ideas.
Explain to me how Deandre Jordan is a valuable asset to move in a rebuild to get us back to a championship.
Noone has yet.
Bledsoe was never included in a deal for KG by clippers management.
Well,let me see. He's only 24 and already a starting C on one of the best teams in the NBA. If you can't understand how he would be a valuable asset/trade chip to any team I'm not sure how else to say it!
And Bledsoe has been reported by nearly every NBA source/insider as the main player in the KG deal, with them trying NOT to include Jordan. If you have better inside info yourself, please share it with us, as we're definitely interested to know the REAL scoop!!!!
And I'm still waiting for a/the plan.
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It's funny how so many fans want us to forego trading KG and PP for good young players with potential and/or picks and say just wait til they retire and then start rebuilding---but with what?? Then you get no players or picks, and then have to wait an ADDITIONAL YEAR being bad to get a chance at a lottery pick. So then it's three years to BEGIN rebuilding, all the while til then having no chance at a title!
Let all these same fans put some rebuilding plan out there that they would do a couple of years from now when KG and Paul would retire! Nothing to trade, no lottery picks, and cap room to spend---but what star/s want to come to a team in total rebuild mode? Lets hear these plans!
Me, I get valuable trade chips and start collecting assets now. Then Danny can pounce when an opportunity arises like it did with Ray and KG. Be ready.
But I'm definitely willing to listen to a well laid out plan, if somebody has one, with some specific ideas.
Explain to me how Deandre Jordan is a valuable asset to move in a rebuild to get us back to a championship.
Noone has yet.
Bledsoe was never included in a deal for KG by clippers management.
Well,let me see. He's only 24 and already a starting C on one of the best teams in the NBA. If you can't understand how he would be a valuable asset/trade chip to any team I'm not sure how else to say it!
And Bledsoe has been reported by nearly every NBA source/insider as the main player in the KG deal, with them trying NOT to include Jordan. If you have better inside info yourself, please share it with us, as we're definitely interested to know the REAL scoop!!!!
And I'm still waiting for a/the plan.
Yeah, this really is a frustrating position to be in. In fact, its the worst position to be in.
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Let's put the Rebuilding Myth to rest once and for all:
Knicks: relevant for the 1st time since ewing left in 2000
Nets: somewhat relevant for the 1st time since NBA Finals in 2003
Sixers: ask philly fans how it's been going since AI left in 2006
Raptors: tried to build around tmac, carter, bosh and now bargani...that's turned out real well...
Pacers: ask indy fans how its' been since miller left in 2005...oh, that's right...the malice in the palace team...
Bulls: remember when they tried to build around brand, chandler, tyrus thomas...now boozer and noah...oh yeah...this is year 5 of the rose era
Bucks: really not much to say is there?
Detroit: villanueva and gordon turned out real well, didn't they?
Cle: couldn't win with the king...irving is a great player in yr 2 but prob won't make any noise unless the king comes back
Cheat: enough said
Hawks: nice teams but can you really remember anything about them?
Wizards: completely embarrassing
Magic: what do they have to show for shaq and howard...a couple of finals appearances which actually puts them at the top of list...but...what is left in the cupboard now...not much...unless you're a big baby fan...
Charlotte: MJ...wow
Spurs: class
Memphis: surprisingly well especially for expansion team
Hou: maybe they get something started with harden and lin...who knows
Dallas: dirk is 35...ouch
NO: stern at his best
OKC: the gold standard of rebuilding...went to finals in durant's 5th yr
Denver: nice team but will be stuck in the middle of the pack
Utah: what happened after stockton and malone...williams and boozer are now gone...with big al soon to follow,,,
Portland: the most cursed team in nba history with injuries
Minny: minny has never been the same since kg left...yeah, love and rubio...if they can stay healthy
Clippers: relevant for the 1st time...ever...
Warriors: not much since mullins, hardaway and richmond but they have the 49's
Lakers: gotta give them props for the banners but their time is coming to an end very soon
Kings: what has happened since cwebb, vlade, peja, bibby...nothing
Suns: we loved you with nash...where are grant hill, amare, joe johnson, marion...gone
i give credit to the spurs and lakers for staying at the top
i only give props to one team for rebuilding, that is, okc
most teams failed to rebuild...miserably...
with a few lucky teams stuck in middle seed purgatory...
this talk of rebuilding now is delusional thinking...a byproduct of 21st century thinking, that is, i need and want it now and i refuse to be patient...
do you really think bledose and jordan are franchise players?
heck, most people call smith a borderline all-star and he wants max money...
you can re-build in a couple of years when kg and the capt retire...
our best and only shot is with kg and the capt
for now...enjoy the ride...and yes...we have a chance to win it all this year...
You're saying:
The bulls aren't in a good position right now?
Which era of dominance are the bucks rebuilding from?
Again, what are the hawks "rebuilding" from ?
Acknowledging that the Clippers have done well rebuilding
This post is largely difficult to read
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
To add on to the fact, DA was handed Garnett... which is essentially the "rebuild" we're discussing.
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deandre jordan has virtually no upside left.... an asset needs room to grow...
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
To add on to the fact, DA was handed Garnett... which is essentially the "rebuild" we're discussing.
if by "handed" you mean "traded in exchange for a number of carefully accumulated assets," then yes.
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Some teams reload every year in sports. The Pats and Steelers rarely have had bad years lately. The same can be said for the Lakers, they are usually relevent in the NBA but these teams draft well and make a move when necessary. You can't be good every year but these teams are good 70-80% of the time, year after year.
So we were handed KG, the Lakers were handed Gasol, we were handed Chief and McHale back in the day. It happens all the time and is part of the rebuild. In sports, a team and it's assets are soon parted by a shrewd GM. There are always some teams that deal bad like the Clippers although they have done well in recent years.
But as you can see team's rebuild all the time. College coaches do it year in and year out. Calipari brings in guys every year. The yankess reload and rebuild all the time.
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
To add on to the fact, DA was handed Garnett... which is essentially the "rebuild" we're discussing.
if by "handed" you mean "traded in exchange for a number of carefully accumulated assets," then yes.
All of which proved absolutely worthless, save Jefferson - who still can't guard a chair - and the 5th pick.
"Carefully accumulated."
SMH. The fallacy that Ainge traded value for Garnett and Allen is one of the greatest myths in the history of this board.
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
To add on to the fact, DA was handed Garnett... which is essentially the "rebuild" we're discussing.
if by "handed" you mean "traded in exchange for a number of carefully accumulated assets," then yes.
All of which proved absolutely worthless, save Jefferson - who still can't guard a chair - and the 5th pick.
"Carefully accumulated."
SMH. The fallacy that Ainge traded value for Garnett and Allen is one of the greatest myths in the history of this board.
I doesn't really matter what you think of the assets that Ainge traded away in 2007. What matters is that what he got back certainly proved not to be worthless.
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
To add on to the fact, DA was handed Garnett... which is essentially the "rebuild" we're discussing.
if by "handed" you mean "traded in exchange for a number of carefully accumulated assets," then yes.
All of which proved absolutely worthless, save Jefferson - who still can't guard a chair - and the 5th pick.
"Carefully accumulated."
SMH. The fallacy that Ainge traded value for Garnett and Allen is one of the greatest myths in the history of this board.
I doesn't really matter what you think of the assets that Ainge traded away in 2007. What matters is that what he got back certainly proved not to be worthless.
At the time it had great value. If he hadnt piled those assets together then we wouldnt have gotten KG. Just because they didnt turn out to be great NBA players didnt me at the time they didnt have potential to in fact become great players.
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deandre jordan has virtually no upside left.... an asset needs room to grow...
I agree.
What is he going to add? A jump shot? Legit post moves? Give me a break.
Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
To add on to the fact, DA was handed Garnett... which is essentially the "rebuild" we're discussing.
if by "handed" you mean "traded in exchange for a number of carefully accumulated assets," then yes.
All of which proved absolutely worthless, save Jefferson - who still can't guard a chair - and the 5th pick.
"Carefully accumulated."
SMH. The fallacy that Ainge traded value for Garnett and Allen is one of the greatest myths in the history of this board.
Value is not assigned in retrospect.
The value was there when the trade was made. Hence the trade was made.
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
And remember, Danny had Pierce already on the roster when he was doing this. If the C's dump KG/Pierce now for assets, who is the next Pierce that Danny builds around...as I've stated before, it's not Rondo.
The task this time is to do it the SA (old Celtics) way...add youth to your aging stars and hope to grow one or more of them into stars to replace those that retire.
Yes, you might "flip" an aging star, but only for a rising star, not for role players. Role players you always "flip" for upgrades hoping that eventually you can combine several "assets" for a good young star.
That's how teams successfully rebuild...or reload. That's how the old Celtics did it, it's how LA has been doing it. Of course, there will be mistakes...Howard looks like a mistake now for LA...but if you're doing it right even your mistakes can still be used as assets to keep "flipping" until you get a hit.
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Da has a record of getting assets and improving the team prior to 2008 season. That kinds of makes your myth a fact. He has done it before once, can he do it again?
That's a good point; rebuilding only took Danny 4-5 years the last time around.
And remember, Danny had Pierce already on the roster when he was doing this. If the C's dump KG/Pierce now for assets, who is the next Pierce that Danny builds around...as I've stated before, it's not Rondo.
The task this time is to do it the SA (old Celtics) way...add youth to your aging stars and hope to grow one or more of them into stars to replace those that retire.
Yes, you might "flip" an aging star, but only for a rising star, not for role players. Role players you always "flip" for upgrades hoping that eventually you can combine several "assets" for a good young star.
That's how teams successfully rebuild...or reload. That's how the old Celtics did it, it's how LA has been doing it. Of course, there will be mistakes...Howard looks like a mistake now for LA...but if you're doing it right even your mistakes can still be used as assets to keep "flipping" until you get a hit.
Why cant it be Rondo? If we keep Rondo and turn our assets into KG and Ray Allen like competitors you dont think we would be just as much of a contender with the games top 2 point point guard a star wing and a star big man?
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All of which proved absolutely worthless, save Jefferson - who still can't guard a chair - and the 5th pick.
"Carefully accumulated."
SMH. The fallacy that Ainge traded value for Garnett and Allen is one of the greatest myths in the history of this board.
Jefferson had unbelievable value back then. His first season with Minnesota, he was 23 and averaged 21 points and 11 rebounds. At that point, the only players to have those averages at 23 or younger in the post merger NBA were Moses Malone, Olajuwon, Barkley, Shaq, Duncan and KG.
Of course, because of injuries and because of playing for bad teams with bad coaches, he never reached his potential. But the potential was there, at the time, to make him an extremely valuable asset.
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That's how teams successfully rebuild...or reload. That's how the old Celtics did it, it's how LA has been doing it. Of course, there will be mistakes...Howard looks like a mistake now for LA...but if you're doing it right even your mistakes can still be used as assets to keep "flipping" until you get a hit.
Why cant it be Rondo? If we keep Rondo and turn our assets into KG and Ray Allen like competitors you dont think we would be just as much of a contender with the games top 2 point point guard a star wing and a star big man?
That's right, I don't think that.
First, although Rondo is a very good player, I still think he is a "complementary" player, more Pippen than Jordan to use an unfair comparison. To me, Rondo would be the next iteration's Perkins, not the next iteration's Pierce. Oh, a much better player than Perk, but still that level...needed but not necessary.
Secondly, Rondo's position and his skill set works against him. Name the PG that was the best player on his team and lead his team to a series of championships? I think you could make an argument for Magic Johnson although I still think Jabbar was those team's best player, but even so, he's the only PG I can bring to mind. Championship teams need a top 5 *wing* or *big*... preferably both. Rondo is neither.
Rondo is a "very important asset" and I wouldn't be surprised if DA holds on to him tightly. Still, though, I think Danny would trade Rondo in a heartbeat for a star wing or big. You choose: Rondo for Durant? Rondo for LBJ? Rondo for Griffin? Rondo for Howard? Rondo for Harden?
Edit: Having trouble with the attributions...sorry.