CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Eddie20 on February 18, 2013, 09:33:15 PM
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Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Latest deadline rumble: Boston exploring its Josh Smith options. The prob: Can't do it w/out Pierce. Just can't see Ainge sending PP to ATL
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
KG ain't waiving no-trade clause to go to ATL. So Celts would have to part with iconic PP to get J-Smoove. So can't happen w/out more teams
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Hawks have convinced numerous teams that Josh Smith will be moved between now and Thursday 3 PM deadline. Question remains where exactly
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I would hate trading Pierce for Josh Smith.
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I would do it, jeff green and smith running with rondo would be great.
Then if kg wants to get traded
Pg: Rondo / bradley
Sg : bledsoe / lee
Sf: green
Pf: smith / sully
C: jordan / melo
Not a contender, but would but fun to watch and really young
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Not a fan of trading Pierce for someone who will be greatly overpaid soon. But this would keep us in the playoffs as a first round bounce for years to come just like the Hawks.
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be very surprised if it happens. IF, and it's a big IF, Ainge decides to blow it up and send PP and parts for Smith and also package KG for Bledsoe/Jordan, that's an interesting team going forward potentially (depending on who else is shipped out). would have to think JET would also be heading out of town (hopefully for a pick in 2014)
Rondo, Bradley, Green, Bledsoe, Smith, Jordan, Sully, Lee.
Not a contender but a team that should really be able to get up and down the court.
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I would hate trading Pierce for Josh Smith.
Don't worry, that ain't happening.
I am fully convinced Pierce and KG are going nowhere, have been all along.
I'd bet a nickle all these rumors about Pierce/KG are from other teams praying Danny slips up.
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Is Stein just speculating it has to be Pierce or does he have "insider" knowledge that ATL actually wants Pierce? I feel like they would want a younger centerpiece in a Josh Smith trade.
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Trading Pierce or KG defeats the whole purpose of acquiring Josh Smith.
Looks like Ainge is just going to roll with what he's got.
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be very surprised if it happens. IF, and it's a big IF, Ainge decides to blow it up and send PP and parts for Smith and also package KG for Bledsoe/Jordan, that's an interesting team going forward potentially (depending on who else is shipped out). would have to think JET would also be heading out of town (hopefully for a pick in 2014)
Rondo, Bradley, Green, Bledsoe, Smith, Jordan, Sully, Lee.
Not a contender but a team that should really be able to get up and down the court.
Yeah, but what if the allure of playing alongside Rondo and Smith and under Doc lands us Dwight Howard? We could do a S&T involving Jordan and other parts and potentially have a rotation of:
Smith
Green
Howard
Rondo
Bradley
Bass
Sullinger
Bledsoe
Lee
With Bass and/or Terry probably shipped out for Howard.
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Trading Pierce or KG defeats the whole purpose of acquiring Josh Smith.
Looks like Ainge is just going to roll with what he's got.
I agree, but if the opportunity was to get Smith for PP I don't see how you don't do it
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be very surprised if it happens. IF, and it's a big IF, Ainge decides to blow it up and send PP and parts for Smith and also package KG for Bledsoe/Jordan, that's an interesting team going forward potentially (depending on who else is shipped out). would have to think JET would also be heading out of town (hopefully for a pick in 2014)
Rondo, Bradley, Green, Bledsoe, Smith, Jordan, Sully, Lee.
Not a contender but a team that should really be able to get up and down the court.
Yeah, but what if the allure of playing alongside Rondo and Smith and under Doc lands us Dwight Howard? We could do a S&T involving Jordan and other parts and potentially have a rotation of:
Smith
Green
Howard
Rondo
Bradley
Bass
Sullinger
Bledsoe
Lee
With Bass and/or Terry probably shipped out for Howard.
I do not want Howard in Boston. People talk about Rondo and Smith being headcases... Seeing how hes been in Orlando and then LA the past few years - he's an incredibly talented player, but his brand of entitlement can cripple a franchise.
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I would hate to see PP leave, especially to amother team in the east, but
Bradley - Lee - green - smith - KG
isn't a bad lineup for the rest of the year. KG might help season Smith up a bit.
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Trade Pierce for Smith with the wink wink, behind closed doors idea that Atlanta won't be picking up his last year, he will be paid his $5 million and then can return for the MLE here next year.
So this season is shot, I think everyone knew that once Rondo and Sully went down but it adds Josh Smith to next year's team along with Pierce.
Next Year
Rondo/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Lee
Pierce/Green
Smith/Sully/Bass
KG/Melo
Then add some size. Wilcox and Collins need to be replaced.
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Trade Pierce for Smith with the wink wink, behind closed doors idea that Atlanta won't be picking up his last year, he will be paid his $5 million and then can return for the MLE here next year.
So this season is shot, I think everyone knew that once Rondo and Sully went down but it adds Josh Smith to next year's team along with Pierce.
Next Year
Rondo/Terry/Barbosa
Bradley/Lee
Pierce/Green
Smith/Sully/Bass
KG/Melo
Then add some size. Wilcox and Collins need to be replaced.
pierce would be going to a 3rd team, but would be great if that happened
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Hawks don't want long term mediocre salary for smith.
Thus Pierce is the only salary match that fits, unless Green has a convert in Ferry.
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I really hope PP and KG don't get traded. I'm going to be pretty displeased if we are not trying to load up for a run THIS YEAR.
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And then we gonna overpay for Josh Smith after this season. No thanks.
Let's get away from this overrated player. If he ain't commanding maximum dollars, that's fine.
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Hawks don't want long term mediocre salary for smith.
Thus Pierce is the only salary match that fits, unless Green has a convert in Ferry.
Bingo. They want youth and picks attached to a short term deal that allows them to maintain financial flexibility.
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Let the Hawks trade Smith or keep him, whichever. Then have Smith signed-and-traded here during the offseason for KG + filler/younger assets. KG promptly retires (as an unofficial part of the deal that both teams are aware of in advance). Ta-da!*
*may not work under new CBA, I pay minimal attention to that stuff.
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Let the Hawks trade Smith or keep him, whichever. Then have Smith signed-and-traded here during the offseason for KG + filler/younger assets. KG promptly retires (as an unofficial part of the deal that both teams are aware of in advance). Ta-da!*
*may not work under new CBA, I pay minimal attention to that stuff.
From my understanding the sign and trade is a thing of the past.
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Trade Pierce for Smith with the wink wink, behind closed doors idea that Atlanta won't be picking up his last year, he will be paid his $5 million and then can return for the MLE here next year.
It's a partially guaranteed final year, not a team option. If Pierce is traded then waived, he can't return to the Celtics for a year after the trade.
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Let the Hawks trade Smith or keep him, whichever. Then have Smith signed-and-traded here during the offseason for KG + filler/younger assets. KG promptly retires (as an unofficial part of the deal that both teams are aware of in advance). Ta-da!*
*may not work under new CBA, I pay minimal attention to that stuff.
From my understanding the sign and trade is a thing of the past.
It's still allowed, but much more costly for teams
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I would do it, jeff green and smith running with rondo would be great.
Then if kg wants to get traded
Pg: Rondo / bradley
Sg : bledsoe / lee
Sf: green
Pf: smith / sully
C: jordan / melo
Not a contender, but would but fun to watch and really young
would be a nice young exciting team indeed. It would be a blast watching celtics games again. Fairly decent young squad with many assets to work with.
however if we are getting Smith i want him playing alongside Pierce Rondo and KG. thats going to be very difficult to make happen however.
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Let the Hawks trade Smith or keep him, whichever. Then have Smith signed-and-traded here during the offseason for KG + filler/younger assets. KG promptly retires (as an unofficial part of the deal that both teams are aware of in advance). Ta-da!*
*may not work under new CBA, I pay minimal attention to that stuff.
From my understanding the sign and trade is a thing of the past.
Nope. You can still do it. Remember that's how we acquired Lee.
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I will say if this is the blow up plan and we end up looking like this.
Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green
Smith
Jordan
That is a crazy defensive/athletic team.
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From my understanding the sign and trade is a thing of the past.
Not a thing of the past, but something that a team way over the cap can't do.
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If an out for the year Rondo is good enough to land us Howard in Rumorville,then how about Barbosa and Sullinger for Smith.
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This is what I am hoping:
Josh Smith wants to come to Boston and not go to the other teams (Bucks, Nets,'6ers, etc) that are pitching Ferry. He tells Ferry and the other teams that he won't sign with them so he will only be a rental for them.
Danny holds tight offering Green, Bass, Melo, Sully and this year's first. Ferry caves at the deadline to get something rather than nothing for Smith.
Ferry gets an athletic wing that he needs in Green, two youngsters with big upside, esp. Sully and a first. He swallows Bass to make the deal happen.
The key is JSmoove wanting to play in Boston.
If we are getting him to competete this year, we can't give up the Captain.
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I will say if this is the blow up plan and we end up looking like this.
Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green
Smith
Jordan
That is a crazy defensive/athletic team.
This is a borderline playoff time at best. If the team gets broken up, I'd rather it be to get into the lottery. This team is probably a little better than lottery material, and very far from being a contender.
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From my understanding the sign and trade is a thing of the past.
Not a thing of the past, but something that a team way over the cap can't do.
On both ends? So Boston being over the cap in this scenario couldn't receive Smith from an under the cap ATL?
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I will say if this is the blow up plan and we end up looking like this.
Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green
Smith
Jordan
That is a crazy defensive/athletic team.
This is a borderline playoff time at best. If the team gets broken up, I'd rather it be to get into the lottery. This team is probably a little better than lottery material, and very far from being a contender.
Not saying they would be contenders at all. Would be very fun to watch and again a very good defensive team. Also you have plenty of pieces to move during the summer. You would have Rondo,Bradley,Jordan,Green, and Bradley who could all get you good talent in return.
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I will say if this is the blow up plan and we end up looking like this.
Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green
Smith
Jordan
That is a crazy defensive/athletic team.
This is a borderline playoff time at best. If the team gets broken up, I'd rather it be to get into the lottery. This team is probably a little better than lottery material, and very far from being a contender.
Add Rondo to that team. I feel that we can get that team without giving up Rondo if we choose to:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=cu533x6
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From my understanding the sign and trade is a thing of the past.
Not a thing of the past, but something that a team way over the cap can't do.
On both ends? So Boston being over the cap in this scenario couldn't receive Smith from an under the cap ATL?
you can't be a tax team and you can't over the apron as a result of sign and trade.
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From my understanding the sign and trade is a thing of the past.
Not a thing of the past, but something that a team way over the cap can't do.
On both ends? So Boston being over the cap in this scenario couldn't receive Smith from an under the cap ATL?
you can't be a tax team and you can't over the apron as a result of sign and trade.
So if you're already over prior to the S&T your ok then.
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From my understanding the sign and trade is a thing of the past.
Not a thing of the past, but something that a team way over the cap can't do.
On both ends? So Boston being over the cap in this scenario couldn't receive Smith from an under the cap ATL?
you can't be a tax team and you can't over the apron as a result of sign and trade.
So if you're already over prior to the S&T your ok then.
No, if you're over the apron prior to the S&T, you can't receive the player being signed and traded unless the deal brings you under the apron.
Which basically means that the Lakers couldn't do a double sign-and-trade of Howard for Smith or any other free agent who will command a big contract.
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Trade Pierce for Smith with the wink wink, behind closed doors idea that Atlanta won't be picking up his last year, he will be paid his $5 million and then can return for the MLE here next year.
It's a partially guaranteed final year, not a team option. If Pierce is traded then waived, he can't return to the Celtics for a year after the trade.
I have seen it listed as a player option. If it is and decides not to take the option, then he is free to sign where ever he wants.
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I will say if this is the blow up plan and we end up looking like this.
Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green
Smith
Jordan
That is a crazy defensive/athletic team.
This is a borderline playoff time at best. If the team gets broken up, I'd rather it be to get into the lottery. This team is probably a little better than lottery material, and very far from being a contender.
I think DA isn't that hip on lottery luck. He has a blue print now for how to win a title. Develop young talent and turn into three of the games best players and good complimentary role players.
For the next 2-3 years it's going to be all about LeBron in the East. He' reached the peak of his powers and he will remain there until at least 32. Now that he has a taste for winning and an understanding of what it takes it's going to be almost impossible to beat him when he and his team are healthy.
If Ainge get's young guys along with Smith and Rondo then in 2 years Smith and Rondo will still be on the right side of 30. Hope to flip these young guys into a disgruntled Super Star and make a run.
Smith would be of the Ray Allen caliber, Rondo of the Pierce caliber, and you hope to acquire a guy of the Kg caliber. Then maybe you can go head to head with this guy for 4 out of 7.
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Trade Pierce for Smith with the wink wink, behind closed doors idea that Atlanta won't be picking up his last year, he will be paid his $5 million and then can return for the MLE here next year.
It's a partially guaranteed final year, not a team option. If Pierce is traded then waived, he can't return to the Celtics for a year after the trade.
I have seen it listed as a player option. If it is and decides not to take the option, then he is free to sign where ever he wants.
No, it's a partially guaranteed year.
Forgot about that new rule.
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This sucks because it means Ferry isn't willing to take back Bass and Lee with Sully, Melo + picks for Smith.
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Trade Pierce for Smith with the wink wink, behind closed doors idea that Atlanta won't be picking up his last year, he will be paid his $5 million and then can return for the MLE here next year.
It's a partially guaranteed final year, not a team option. If Pierce is traded then waived, he can't return to the Celtics for a year after the trade.
I have seen it listed as a player option. If it is and decides not to take the option, then he is free to sign where ever he wants.
No, it's a partially guaranteed year.
Forgot about that new rule.
Oh okay. I was under the impression it was a player option. Oh well.
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This sucks because it means Ferry isn't willing to take back Bass and Lee with Sully, Melo + picks for Smith.
They probably wouldn't take that package, but I don't think Stein knows what he is talking about. Why would they want Pierce? Pierce, Sully, pick? I don't see what package with Pierce makes sense for a team like Atlanta.
Warriors and Clippers I could see, Denver mayyyybe. No other teams will give up good assets for Pierce.
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This sucks because it means Ferry isn't willing to take back Bass and Lee with Sully, Melo + picks for Smith.
They probably wouldn't take that package, but I don't think Stein knows what he is talking about. Why would they want Pierce? Pierce, Sully, pick? I don't see what package with Pierce makes sense for a team like Atlanta.
Warriors and Clippers I could see, Denver mayyyybe. No other teams will give up good assets for Pierce.
It would be to add a young cheap contract in Sully with pierce as possible cap relief I believe
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This sucks because it means Ferry isn't willing to take back Bass and Lee with Sully, Melo + picks for Smith.
They probably wouldn't take that package, but I don't think Stein knows what he is talking about. Why would they want Pierce? Pierce, Sully, pick? I don't see what package with Pierce makes sense for a team like Atlanta.
Warriors and Clippers I could see, Denver mayyyybe. No other teams will give up good assets for Pierce.
It would be to add a young cheap contract in Sully with pierce as possible cap relief I believe
Pretty much. Atlanta wants to keep their salary cap as flexible as possible in trading Smith. Since Pierce is only partially guaranteed for next year, that has value, as opposed to taking on several multi-year contracts.
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The only reason ATl wants to trade with Boston is Pierce...
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This sucks because it means Ferry isn't willing to take back Bass and Lee with Sully, Melo + picks for Smith.
They probably wouldn't take that package, but I don't think Stein knows what he is talking about. Why would they want Pierce? Pierce, Sully, pick? I don't see what package with Pierce makes sense for a team like Atlanta.
Warriors and Clippers I could see, Denver mayyyybe. No other teams will give up good assets for Pierce.
As scotthow has said above, they take Pierce and an assett because it gives them immediate cap relief. So Pierce, Sully, Melo and a first.
I do feel that this deal hinges on two things that are being overlooked...
1) how greedy Ferry wants to get
2)how insistent Smith is that he goes to Boston
I also would love doing this deal as someone suggested with the wink wink notion that the Hawks dump Pierces option and he can re sign with us for cheaper next year.
Not sure how legal/possible this is and would love for someone to confirm...
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This sucks because it means Ferry isn't willing to take back Bass and Lee with Sully, Melo + picks for Smith.
They probably wouldn't take that package, but I don't think Stein knows what he is talking about. Why would they want Pierce? Pierce, Sully, pick? I don't see what package with Pierce makes sense for a team like Atlanta.
Warriors and Clippers I could see, Denver mayyyybe. No other teams will give up good assets for Pierce.
It would be to add a young cheap contract in Sully with pierce as possible cap relief I believe
Surely they could find a fully expiring contract and decent prospect for him from somewhere else.
Sully has potential, but about 18 different teams passed on him because he had a bad back. They were right.
And we do realize that Smith is an expiring contract himself. They could just let him walk and save more money. They could buy picks with that $5 million they would have to give Pierce.
There is no reason to believe ATL wants Pierce, unless it includes something like Bradley+Sully or us taking back a bad contract. Neither of which DA would do.
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With how much the front office and the fans like Paul Pierce....I don't see us trading him to the Hawks. Spurs, Clippers and Warriors are the options that I could see if we trade him. Out of our conference and to a Contender/home. I also see it in that order as well.
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Everyone is saying this theoretical team we'd end up with wouldn't be a contender, but think about the Clippers right now.
They were a fringe playoff team, they acquired Paul and suddenly two seasons later they are one of the top 5 teams in the league.
Rondo is not far off Paul's level
Bradley is as dominant on defense as Crawford is on offense
Green at his best is as good as Butler
Smith is not far off Griffin (in terms of actual skill set)
Jordan is is good as...himself
Jet + Bledsoe + Sully is an excellent bench rotation
All that team needs is a pure scorer in free agency and who knows?
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Everyone is saying this theoretical team we'd end up with wouldn't be a contender, but think about the Clippers right now.
They were a fringe playoff team, they acquired Paul and suddenly two seasons later they are one of the top 5 teams in the league.
Rondo is not far off Paul's level
Bradley is as dominant on defense as Crawford is on offense
Green at his best is as good as Butler
Smith is not far off Griffin (in terms of actual skill set)
Jordan is is good as...himself
Jet + Bledsoe + Sully is an excellent bench rotation
All that team needs is a pure scorer in free agency and who knows?
Rondo > Paul
Great comparison TP
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Everyone is saying this theoretical team we'd end up with wouldn't be a contender, but think about the Clippers right now.
They were a fringe playoff team, they acquired Paul and suddenly two seasons later they are one of the top 5 teams in the league.
Rondo is not far off Paul's level
Bradley is as dominant on defense as Crawford is on offense
Green at his best is as good as Butler
Smith is not far off Griffin (in terms of actual skill set)
Jordan is is good as...himself
Jet + Bledsoe + Sully is an excellent bench rotation
All that team needs is a pure scorer in free agency and who knows?
They aren't a contender in reality, hence why they are after a guy who happens to be on our team.
Rondo really isn't as close to Paul as many want to believe, and Smith isn't really close to Blake.
There is no way Rondo/Bradley/Green/Smith/Jordan can make a decent playoff push.
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With how much the front office and the fans like Paul Pierce....I don't see us trading him to the Hawks. Spurs, Clippers and Warriors are the options that I could see if we trade him. Out of our conference and to a Contender/home. I also see it in that order as well.
Yeah, only a team that is just a Pierce move away from winning a championship would trade for him (what with his very limited shelf life as a greatly productive player). I would not count GS in that very limited group. It's just hard to come up with viable PP trades. The KG to the Clips thing could have had legs (I thought the 3 way with ATL idea sounded very plausible for all teams), but only if PP were first dealt, and he's the tougher of the two to actually deal, so when all is said and done, I just don't see either of them being dealt.
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And we do realize that Smith is an expiring contract himself. They could just let him walk and save more money. They could buy picks with that $5 million they would have to give Pierce.
There is no reason to believe ATL wants Pierce, unless it includes something like Bradley+Sully or us taking back a bad contract. Neither of which DA would do.
An expiring contract is a trade asset. Sometimes teams acquire a player with the intention of trading him in the future. So, in theory, Atlanta might think they are trading Josh Smith for cheap assets plus whatever they think they can get for Paul Pierce. Depending on how they evaluate the future trade market for Pierce and how likely they think they can sign a big free agent in 2013 vs 2014, it may be better in the long run to acquire Pierce's contract and wait a year before they make a push to acquire a possible franchise player rather than to let Smith walk with possibly no compensation.
The main problem for Atlanta is that Pierce is both too good and too old.
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Feel free to comment how you feel about him or anything about him.
But personally I hate Josh Smith, I hate his attitude, I hate how he plays, I don't like how much attitude he gives the refs, I dislike how he flops/overreacts, and last I hate how he is all about himself and is selfish. But think about what he brings to the table. How about I list the positive things. Well what I think is good:
-He can rebound, Will help KG out
-Can attack the basket strong
-Defense! Defense! Defense! This guy is an amazing shot blocker and has won
-Shooter, in fact a good shooter and could be better than Green and Bass combined. Key word: could be
-Could help us "Beat The Heat"
Listening to NBA All-star weekend, during the All-star game, I forget who it was but one of the commentators were talking about teams that could beat the heat. He said that two teams could beat that team, the pacers and chicago because they have two dominant big guys that can rebound.
Just look at what he is averaging this year:
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/nam ... anta-hawks
Pretty impressive for a guy who people say "suck" and "he's horrible"
Make a deal that includes Jeff Green cause that's probably the only guy that the Hawks would take
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And we do realize that Smith is an expiring contract himself. They could just let him walk and save more money. They could buy picks with that $5 million they would have to give Pierce.
There is no reason to believe ATL wants Pierce, unless it includes something like Bradley+Sully or us taking back a bad contract. Neither of which DA would do.
An expiring contract is a trade asset. Sometimes teams acquire a player with the intention of trading him in the future. So, in theory, Atlanta might think they are trading Josh Smith for cheap assets plus whatever they think they can get for Paul Pierce. Depending on how they evaluate the future trade market for Pierce and how likely they think they can sign a big free agent in 2013 vs 2014, it may be better in the long run to acquire Pierce's contract and wait a year before they make a push to acquire a possible franchise player rather than to let Smith walk with possibly no compensation.
The main problem for Atlanta is that Pierce is both too good and too old.
Expiring deals are overrated. They were a hot commodity before the Lebron, Wade, Bosh free agency year because a bunch of teams wanted to create cap room but when has an expiring deal netted a lot in return before or since? It can be valuable as part of a package like when the Celtics used Theo's deal to facilitate the trade for Ray but the Celtics also had to give up the 5th pick in the draft. If Atlanta wants to get a franchise player, one, they're probably not going to be able to get one via a trade and two, Pierce's expiring deal isn't going to be much of a factor. You just simply don't trade Josh Smith before he hits free agency and largely come away with an expiring deal which you might, possibly, be able to spin up for something a year later.
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Everyone is saying this theoretical team we'd end up with wouldn't be a contender, but think about the Clippers right now.
They were a fringe playoff team, they acquired Paul and suddenly two seasons later they are one of the top 5 teams in the league.
Rondo is not far off Paul's level
Bradley is as dominant on defense as Crawford is on offense
Green at his best is as good as Butler
Smith is not far off Griffin (in terms of actual skill set)
Jordan is is good as...himself
Jet + Bledsoe + Sully is an excellent bench rotation
All that team needs is a pure scorer in free agency and who knows?
They aren't a contender in reality, hence why they are after a guy who happens to be on our team.
Rondo really isn't as close to Paul as many want to believe, and Smith isn't really close to Blake.
There is no way Rondo/Bradley/Green/Smith/Jordan can make a decent playoff push.
TP
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Yeah, getting Jordan and Smith would not the Clippers make. A starting lineup that featuring Rondo, Jordan and Smith might be the worst shooting starting lineup in the game. I can't imagine how they would be an efficient scoring unit. Rondo is miles away from Paul in terms of scoring efficiently as is Smith from Blake.
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And we do realize that Smith is an expiring contract himself. They could just let him walk and save more money. They could buy picks with that $5 million they would have to give Pierce.
There is no reason to believe ATL wants Pierce, unless it includes something like Bradley+Sully or us taking back a bad contract. Neither of which DA would do.
An expiring contract is a trade asset. Sometimes teams acquire a player with the intention of trading him in the future. So, in theory, Atlanta might think they are trading Josh Smith for cheap assets plus whatever they think they can get for Paul Pierce. Depending on how they evaluate the future trade market for Pierce and how likely they think they can sign a big free agent in 2013 vs 2014, it may be better in the long run to acquire Pierce's contract and wait a year before they make a push to acquire a possible franchise player rather than to let Smith walk with possibly no compensation.
The main problem for Atlanta is that Pierce is both too good and too old.
I'm not sure I follow. You think they would actually pick up Pierce's option to use as an expiring contract? I don't think their is ANY chance that franchise adds $10M to their payroll in 2013-14 in anticipation they can possibly trade Pierce midseason.
The Celtics cheapest assets are Melo (far away would be a stretch), Sully and Bradley. They aren't getting Bradley. Sully is a rotational player with a concerning injury history. Guys like Melo rarely pan out, chances are Hawks would lose more sleep watching him make boneheaded plays than they would passing on him.
Someone like Lee or Green make sense. Talented players that while maybe not cheap, are proven performers and easily flippable. If not one or both of them, ATL isn't dealing with us.
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Don't like his game.
Don't think his overall defense is game changing like KG or Bradley.
Don't think he can shoot better than Green or Bass.
Don't think he can contain LeBron significantly better than Green could.
He's made exactly the same number of All-Star games as Green and Bass.
Will almost assuredly get overpaid in July, just hope it isn't us.
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Don't like his game.
Don't think his overall defense is game changing like KG or Bradley.
Don't think he can shoot better than Green or Bass.
Don't think he can contain LeBron significantly better than Green could.
He's made exactly the same number of All-Star games as Green and Bass.
Will almost assuredly get overpaid in July, just hope it isn't us.
many people here wants him bad but i do hope we don't get him. i agree with all you're statements overrated no max contract player.
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If he was a free agent sign-up, I'd take him. Trade (possibly painful one at that), no.
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Don't like his game.
Don't think his overall defense is game changing like KG or Bradley.
Don't think he can shoot better than Green or Bass.
Don't think he can contain LeBron significantly better than Green could.
He's made exactly the same number of All-Star games as Green and Bass.
Will almost assuredly get overpaid in July, just hope it isn't us.
In today's day and age of overvalued big men, Josh Smith is a genuine max contract guy.
Stop and have a think about what Perkins is making, what Omer Asik is making, and what Roy Hibbert is making in relation to their production.
Josh Smith is a guy that averages over 17 points, 8.5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal and 2 blocks per game. He's the only guy in the NBA right now putting up those numbers across those 5 statistical areas, and he's been putting up those type of numbers for pretty much his entire career (his career stats are not far below).
His current field goal percentage (46%) and three point percentage (35%) are both actually slightly higher than what Jeff Green is putting up for us this season, and he's actually shooting 53% from the field and 47% from three over his last 10 games.
Yes Green is better from midrange, where he shoots 36% (versus 30% for Smith). Josh Smith however is better inside, where he shoots 71% inside the restricted area (62% for Green) and 33% outside the restricted area (26% for Green).
Smith is also a stronger finisher, as he has only 29 Blocks-Against versus 37 for Green (despite Smith playing more minutes).
Basically what it comes down to offensively is that Green is a better outside scorer, while Smith is a more effective scorer inside the paint. Personally I think we could use more interior scoring, so I'd welcome Smith's skill with the higher percentage shots.
Both guys get to the free throw line well.
Outside of Outside shooting and turnovers, Smith > Green in every statistical area including rebounding and shotblocking - two areas where we could really use a boost.
I love Green right now with the way he's been playing, but it's hard to see Smith as anything but an upgrade. Not a massive upgrade, but a significant one.
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This guy is better than Green, I think he has posted all star numbers but he has that Antione Walker inefficiency granted. He is a better rebounder and scorer. Neither are knockout shooters and both are good shot blockers but one has to give the nod to Smith on BPG. Smith is a better passer than peeps realize, think of Antione Walker with jumping ability. He is a mediocre albeit streaky shooter and TO prone.
Ranks #26 in the NBA in Points Per Game (17.4)
Ranks #22 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game (8.6)
Ranks #39 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (4.1)
Ranks #40 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (1.23)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Blocks Per Game (2.15)
Ranks #27 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (35.7)
Ranks #40 in the NBA in Minutes Played (1714)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Field Goals Made (348)
Ranks #24 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts (756)
Ranks #38 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts (194)
Ranks #24 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds (321)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game (6.7)
Ranks #23 in the NBA in Total Rebounds (414)
Ranks #49 in the NBA in Assists (195)
Ranks #48 in the NBA in Steals (59)
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Plus, I'd kinda like a guy who can do stuff like this on a consistent basis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zqhvBc_NO4
We really haven't had that type of shotblocking presence since we had KG and Perk together, and we could use a guy who can energise the crowd the way J-Smooth can with some of those kinda of plays and putbacks.
If we had any chance at all of getting him without giving up Rondo, Bradley, Pierce or KG then I think adding him to that group gives us one of the most dominant starting lineups in the league until after KG and Pierce retire, at which point their payroll comes off the books and we can use that $20M or so to sign a max contract guy to pair with Rondo, Bradley and Smith.
I really feel like we need a young energy guy to allow us to run other teams into the ground, and even this year a lineup of AB, Lee, T-Wil, Smith and Wilcox could be one of the most athletic lineups in the league.
Plus unlike any of our current small bigs, Josh Smith could probably actually play center pretty decently if we ever go small. His good touch around the basket, nice hands, good passing ability, solid rebounding and excellent shotblocking means he could probably go small with Smith at the 5 (as Doc loves to do).
In a small ball lineup I don't think Smith would have any trouble at all defending smaller fives like Bosh. He has the length and muscle to bother Bosh in the post, yet he has the speed and quickness to get out and challenge his jumpers.
A frontline of KG and Josh Smith could be one of the best defensive and passing frontlines in the NBA, and it'd be a pretty good rebounding one too (~ 15 RPG between them). Not likely to be many easy baskets with those guys protecting the rim.
The sad part for us is that a lineup of Green/Smith/Garnett is actually probably stronger for us than Pierce/Smith/Garnett.
A lineup of Bradley, Lee, Green, Smith and Garnett would make out defense absolutely suffocating, and it would be probably one of the best lineups in the league when it comes to the ability to defend the pick and roll (all those guys can defend multiple positions) and the ability to get out to shooters (all of those guys are quick and athletic for their position).
We would lack a little in the way of scoring without Pierce (plus it would kill me to see him go) but on a per36 minute basis that starting lineup is still good for about 75 points per game going off their current averages.
It makes out bench a little thin though, and we'd need Terry and T-Will to play 6MOTY type basketball.
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like him, long as KG and pierce stay .
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This guy is better than Green, I think he has posted all star numbers but he has that Antione Walker inefficiency granted. He is a better rebounder and scorer. Neither are knockout shooters and both are good shot blockers but one has to give the nod to Smith on BPG. Smith is a better passer than peeps realize, think of Antione Walker with jumping ability. He is a mediocre albeit streaky shooter and TO prone.
Ranks #26 in the NBA in Points Per Game (17.4)
Ranks #22 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game (8.6)
Ranks #39 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (4.1)
Ranks #40 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (1.23)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Blocks Per Game (2.15)
Ranks #27 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (35.7)
Ranks #40 in the NBA in Minutes Played (1714)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Field Goals Made (348)
Ranks #24 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts (756)
Ranks #38 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts (194)
Ranks #24 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds (321)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game (6.7)
Ranks #23 in the NBA in Total Rebounds (414)
Ranks #49 in the NBA in Assists (195)
Ranks #48 in the NBA in Steals (59)
He also projects to be twice as expensive as Green.
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wrong attitude, not a great shooter, over-sized for SF, good enough do defend PF?
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wrong attitude, not a great shooter, over-sized for SF, good enough do defend PF?
1. Rondo has the same problem, but how much do we love him here?
2. Neither is Green, or Bass, or Lee. We are not a team filled with good shooters...we are a team sprinkled with passable shooters (which Smith is).
3. So is Lebron (oversized for a SF), but I don't hear Miami fans complaining. Josh Smith is an athletic freak and is not far off Lebron in terms of his physical talents.
4. He can defend PF's at least as well as Lebron can, probably better due to his superior extra height and superior shotblocking. We had Big Baby spending how much time at the center spot, and he didn't do too badly. Smith is (IMO) a far superior defensive player then Big Baby against bigger opponents due to his height, length, athleticism and shotblocking ability.
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Bass, Lee, Melo, and a first is as far as I will go in going after him. Start both Pierce and Green at the wing spots for the rest of year, and we'll have to sign 2 additional players off the scrap heap.
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This guy is better than Green, I think he has posted all star numbers but he has that Antione Walker inefficiency granted. He is a better rebounder and scorer. Neither are knockout shooters and both are good shot blockers but one has to give the nod to Smith on BPG. Smith is a better passer than peeps realize, think of Antione Walker with jumping ability. He is a mediocre albeit streaky shooter and TO prone.
Ranks #26 in the NBA in Points Per Game (17.4)
Ranks #22 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game (8.6)
Ranks #39 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (4.1)
Ranks #40 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (1.23)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Blocks Per Game (2.15)
Ranks #27 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (35.7)
Ranks #40 in the NBA in Minutes Played (1714)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Field Goals Made (348)
Ranks #24 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts (756)
Ranks #38 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts (194)
Ranks #24 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds (321)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game (6.7)
Ranks #23 in the NBA in Total Rebounds (414)
Ranks #49 in the NBA in Assists (195)
Ranks #48 in the NBA in Steals (59)
He also projects to be twice as expensive as Green.
good point, and will he be twice as productive ?
Smith is alot of bling
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wrong attitude, not a great shooter, over-sized for SF, good enough do defend PF?
1. Rondo has the same problem, but how much do we love him here?
2. Neither is Green, or Bass, or Lee. We are not a team filled with good shooters...we are a team sprinkled with passable shooters (which Smith is).
3. So is Lebron (oversized for a SF), but I don't hear Miami fans complaining. Josh Smith is an athletic freak and is not far off Lebron in terms of his physical talents.
4. He can defend PF's at least as well as Lebron can, probably better due to his superior extra height and superior shotblocking. We had Big Baby spending how much time at the center spot, and he didn't do too badly. Smith is (IMO) a far superior defensive player then Big Baby against bigger opponents due to his height, length, athleticism and shotblocking ability.
some most love Rondo, I can't stand him.
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Don't like his game.
Don't think his overall defense is game changing like KG or Bradley.
Don't think he can shoot better than Green or Bass.
Don't think he can contain LeBron significantly better than Green could.
He's made exactly the same number of All-Star games as Green and Bass.
Will almost assuredly get overpaid in July, just hope it isn't us.
In today's day and age of overvalued big men, Josh Smith is a genuine max contract guy.
Stop and have a think about what Perkins is making, what Omer Asik is making, and what Roy Hibbert is making in relation to their production.
Josh Smith is a guy that averages over 17 points, 8.5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal and 2 blocks per game. He's the only guy in the NBA right now putting up those numbers across those 5 statistical areas, and he's been putting up those type of numbers for pretty much his entire career (his career stats are not far below).
His current field goal percentage (46%) and three point percentage (35%) are both actually slightly higher than what Jeff Green is putting up for us this season, and he's actually shooting 53% from the field and 47% from three over his last 10 games.
Yes Green is better from midrange, where he shoots 36% (versus 30% for Smith). Josh Smith however is better inside, where he shoots 71% inside the restricted area (62% for Green) and 33% outside the restricted area (26% for Green).
Smith is also a stronger finisher, as he has only 29 Blocks-Against versus 37 for Green (despite Smith playing more minutes).
Basically what it comes down to offensively is that Green is a better outside scorer, while Smith is a more effective scorer inside the paint. Personally I think we could use more interior scoring, so I'd welcome Smith's skill with the higher percentage shots.
Both guys get to the free throw line well.
Outside of Outside shooting and turnovers, Smith > Green in every statistical area including rebounding and shotblocking - two areas where we could really use a boost.
I love Green right now with the way he's been playing, but it's hard to see Smith as anything but an upgrade. Not a massive upgrade, but a significant one.
The guy is a career 29% shooter from 3 and 66% from the line. He is not a good shooter. He routinely takes questionable shots.
He is a good player at $11 million. He is virtually untradable (hey if Joe Johnson at $20+M can get moved anyone can) at $17 million.
I don't want to get tied down to his contract for the next 4-5 seasons. I could live with it if we kept Pierce AND Green (because we would still be able to compete for as long as KG continues to lace em up), but that won't happen.
He is the PF version of Rondo. I am not crazy about the PG version of Rondo, but at least he is on a value contract. Can't wait til Rondo gets his next contract and he gets wildly overpaid by us. Just hope Smith isn't here for that duo to take up half our cap.
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Don't know if it posted, from Jared Sullinger facebook page, So here is the planned out trade:
Boston Gets: Josh Smith, Anthony Morrow, 2nd round pick from Atlanta
Atlanta Gets: JJ Hickson, Fab Melo, Wes Mathews, 1st round pick from Boston, 1st round pick from Portland
Portland Gets: Courtney Lee, Brandon Bass, Devin Harris, 2nd round pick from Boston, 2nd round pick from Atlanta!~ZM13*
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I'll keep this short. I don't like him at all.
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#1 Smith will get a max deal next year
#2 The Celtics won't give him a max deal
#3 The Celtics are somehow still in the running
----> NO ONE is willing to give up both assets and max money for Smith
----> Atlanta ain't getting much for Smith
I think Smith is headed to a contender, and the Hawks are going to get weak sauce in return. It might well be us, and it might be our sauce.
but oh noes I do not want us to even think about re-signing him for max money
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I don't mind the idea of Smith for the rest of this season (as long as it doesn't cost Pierce or KG)
I am completely against the long term max or near max contract.
In half a season, he is a bonus to this team and can push them to the next level.
After that, the more money he makes, the harder it becomes to get this team it's next star, the more his warts (and almost all players have them) become uglier and uglier.
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Say we trade Bass, Green, pick for him.
Then we win a championship with him.
Do Pierce and KG retire?
Do we resign Smith for the max?
Do they play together for the year in hopes of a repeat?
What would happen IF we won a championship with Josh, would we be obligated to give him the max since he obviously was good? Eh? Eh?
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If we win a title with smith I assume KG and Pierce walk as champions and I'd be so pumped about our title I'd have no problem giving smith the max
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Another Josh Smith thread? Why please, can I have some more?
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If we win a title with smith I assume KG and Pierce walk as champions and I'd be so pumped about our title I'd have no problem giving smith the max
That's what I think too
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YES or NO
(just a poll)
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Josh WHO?
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There are so many threads about josh smith, do we really need another one?
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There already is a running thread about Josh Smith. At least one new thread about Josh Smith was merged into it today morning.
I understand you like the sound of your own voice, but can you please (and this is not limited to the JS discussion) stop spamming the forum with new threads about topics that are already being discussed.
Thank you!
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Trade Pierce for Smith with the wink wink, behind closed doors idea that Atlanta won't be picking up his last year, he will be paid his $5 million and then can return for the MLE here next year.
It's a partially guaranteed final year, not a team option. If Pierce is traded then waived, he can't return to the Celtics for a year after the trade.
I have seen it listed as a player option. If it is and decides not to take the option, then he is free to sign where ever he wants.
Hey, it worked with Atlanta with Payton in the Antoine re-acquisition trade, why not now? ;)
(Btw, it was all the hubbub over that trade that first brought me to CelticsBlog)
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There are so many threads about josh smith, do we really need another one?
If one more Josh Smith thread means one less anti-Rondo thread, at least in the short term, then I will take that temporary reprieve between now and Thursday.
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If we could sign Smith to a Rondo like deal then of course I would want him on the team, but the truth is someone will offer him a max contract this summer.
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There are so many threads about josh smith, do we really need another one?
If one more Josh Smith thread means one less anti-Rondo thread, at least in the short term, then I will take that temporary reprieve between now and Thursday.
Yes! Tp
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us being interested in smith makes plenty of sense. us being able to get smith makes almost no sense. we'd have to either trade pierce (why would atlanta do that?) or some combo of green (who might finally be coming around and is cheaper), bass, lee, fab. i'm not against a package with green for smith, but i think its not a great idea b/c we shouldn't offer smith a max contract, but you can bet some stupid team will, so there's a decent chance he's a rental. i think we have a better chance of getting him here as a FA, but we don't really have much cap space, so again, i just don't see a realistic way for smith to be in green, even though it is a good match (he likes our guys, our fans, and is really close with our best player).
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People are carried away with this max contract talk! It's a rumor on a web page people. He is not going to get a max contract from anyone, players that make multiple all-star appearances get max deals. His agent whom ever that is knows this, lets get real please. He will most likely get get 80-90% of what ever the max is, stop thinking that it is written in stone he is getting the max. ::)
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People are carried away with this max contract talk! It's a rumor on a web page people. He is not going to get a max contract from anyone, players that make multiple all-star appearances get max deals. His agent whom ever that is knows this, lets get real please. He will most likely get get 80-90% of what ever the max is, stop thinking that it is written in stone he is getting the max. ::)
al jefferson and rudy gay say hi ;)
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read a LOT of C's trades by Marc Stein floated over the last decade and not one that I can recall came to fruition. Am I forgetting anything?