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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 01:22:45 PM

Title: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 01:22:45 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: rondohondo on February 17, 2013, 01:25:52 PM
I agree,if you cant land josh smith for bass and green, then I would be all about gathering young prospects and picks for kg and pp.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 17, 2013, 01:26:04 PM
Quote
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.

Not true.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis dying set us back a generation.  Terrible drafting and bad management coupled with terrible ownership set us back a generation.

It had nothing to do with not trading Larry and McHale for a bunch of decent / mediocre non-stars.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: droopdog7 on February 17, 2013, 01:28:50 PM
Quote
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.

Not true.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis dying set us back a generation.  Terrible drafting and bad management coupled with terrible ownership set us back a generation.

It had nothing to do with not trading Larry and McHale for a bunch of decent / mediocre non-stars.
Completely agree.  Not trading bird and the rest set us back for maybe two years.  He rest was a series of bad luck and bad decision making.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 17, 2013, 01:29:48 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

What set us back a generation was bad management (like Pitino), health problems (Lewis), and drug problems (Bias), to go along a slew of other problems like Vin Baker's alcoholism.

Holding to Parish, Bird, and McHale for too long are not the reason for our level of irrelevance through an era.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: badshar on February 17, 2013, 01:35:49 PM
Your post clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about what really caused us to be awful for years after Bird, McHale, and Parish retired.

Its not because we held them back, its because our management became worse than the current Bobcats management.

Picking antoine walker over Kobe and many other awful moves. If Pierce hadn't been drafted by us, we would have set the record for worst win/loss record long ago.

Plus, times were much different in the 80's than they are now. There is way too much talent in the league, compared to what it was at that time.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 01:39:11 PM
Quote
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.

Not true.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis dying set us back a generation.  Terrible drafting and bad management coupled with terrible ownership set us back a generation.

It had nothing to do with not trading Larry and McHale for a bunch of decent / mediocre non-stars.


Bias was an attempt to bridge the gap.  What team in the NBA ever has done this and won a championship.  San Antonio I would say would be the closest and they loose in the play offs.  NBA championships are won by superstars int heir prime.

After the death of Bias we had a chance but help onto mediocrity.  Reggie Lewis was one of my all time favorites but at the time the team was average.

No team ever holds onto aging stars and wins.

Bill Belichick never holds onto aging stars once they decline they are gone.

Please Danny don't listen to the insanity.

Kevin and Paul are great leaders who can help teams on the cusp.  This won't be the case soon.

Let the past GO!!!!

This team as constructed will never beat the Heat.

Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: albas89 on February 17, 2013, 01:41:47 PM
Quote
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.

Not true.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis dying set us back a generation.  Terrible drafting and bad management coupled with terrible ownership set us back a generation.

It had nothing to do with not trading Larry and McHale for a bunch of decent / mediocre non-stars.
Amen to that, TP!

What we can get right now for KG and Pierce is just a bunch of underachieving young men, who will never establish us as a serious contender in the future, and that will basically turn us into the Hawks of the last 5 years: mediocre talent-wise players waiting to flourish but they never will and we'll eventually get stuck with them until they ask for a maximum-contract and then we'll have to trade them away for equally mediocre players, and so on.

I think trading KG and Pierce right now is more dangerous than keeping them. This summer is gonna be huge and that's the right time for some major changes IMO, not now. Just let KG and Pierce make their final run. We have some good young assets at the moment and huge cap flexibility as soon as KG retires, no need to blow it up now.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: cman88 on February 17, 2013, 01:44:39 PM
Quote
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.

Not true.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis dying set us back a generation.  Terrible drafting and bad management coupled with terrible ownership set us back a generation.

It had nothing to do with not trading Larry and McHale for a bunch of decent / mediocre non-stars.


Bias was an attempt to bridge the gap.  What team in the NBA ever has done this and won a championship.  San Antonio I would say would be the closest and they loose in the play offs.  NBA championships are won by superstars int heir prime.

After the death of Bias we had a chance but help onto mediocrity.  Reggie Lewis was one of my all time favorites but at the time the team was average.

No team ever holds onto aging stars and wins.

Bill Belichick never holds onto aging stars once they decline they are gone.

Please Danny don't listen to the insanity.

Kevin and Paul are great leaders who can help teams on the cusp.  This won't be the case soon.

Let the past GO!!!!

This team as constructed will never beat the Heat.

who is to say Len Bias wouldnt have been a superstar??

championships are also built by competent management..theresw a reason a team like the Bobcats has never improved
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: dinome18 on February 17, 2013, 01:45:34 PM
That's the issue I think, we don't get huge cap flexibility when PP and KG leave
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 01:51:16 PM
Your post clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about what really caused us to be awful for years after Bird, McHale, and Parish retired.

Its not because we held them back, its because our management became worse than the current Bobcats management.

Picking antoine walker over Kobe and many other awful moves. If Pierce hadn't been drafted by us, we would have set the record for worst win/loss record long ago.

Plus, times were much different in the 80's than they are now. There is way too much talent in the league, compared to what it was at that time.

Moves like trading Joe Johnson for rent a players. Who we had for less then half a year that got us maybe one series closer.

Players have a trajectory.  i would rather have young ones on an upward slope now then aging ones on a downward.

Are people on this board insane?  Peirce does it 1 game in 5 at the most.  Garnett gets limited minutes and averages o.k numbers.


If the team was on the top then o.k. go with them, but there NOT!!!!!!!

People please stop holding onto sentiment.  Garnett can posture all he wants in a game, but in reality he is a mere contributor on a team with higher aspirations.






Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on February 17, 2013, 01:52:22 PM
Man, the thought of trading them is nauseating to me. Don't understand the lack of appreciation for loyalty. It's so rare today and, imho, that's what makes sports awesome (and the NBA much better last generation).
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Celtics18 on February 17, 2013, 01:53:49 PM
I'm completely torn on this issue.  At moments, I think of the valuable hauls we could amass for Pierce and/or Garnett, and I think, let's do it.  At other times, watching these guys play, I think, let's hang on to KG and the Truth for as long as they can still play.  Watching those two old masters is truly a treat.

I've resigned myself to not having any expectations for what this team will look like on February 21st.  This is an intense time to be a fan.  I can't wait for February 22nd. 
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
Man, the thought of trading them is nauseating to me. Don't understand the lack of appreciation for loyalty. It's so rare today and, imho, that's what makes sports awesome (and the NBA much better last generation).

Get real?  It wasn't long ago we got both Garnett and Allen for teams who said the same thing.

In the NBA this loyalty thing only applies when we are looking at our own teams.

The Patriots constantly flip players to stay on top and people wage against coach B., and he always proves them wrong.


Why do you want to keep a team together that has no chance of winning a championship??????????

Sentiment only gets you years further into the future.

Why go for a slow burn?  Why not a bonfire when you know burning up is inevitable.



Better now then later.


Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: badshar on February 17, 2013, 01:59:53 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

This is the biggest BS I have seen on CelticsBlog yet.

The only youth that was there was Rondo. Aside from him, the 7 game series against the Heat was carried on the shoulders of KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo.

Your "youth" was the players on the bench, which scored a combined total of 2 points.

Let's examine the three series in last year's playoffs:

Hawks: All KG and some Pierce - NOT YOUTH
Sixers: KG/Pierce/Rondo - NOT MUCH OF A YOUTH
Heat: KG/Pierce/Rondo/Allen - NOT MUCH OF A YOUTH

You're posting clear BS. At least get valid reasoning for your argument.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: TheBigTicket23 on February 17, 2013, 02:00:47 PM
L O Y A L T Y

Never trade KG and PP, I love our team, it's a team which shows heart and shows celtic pride.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: BballTim on February 17, 2013, 02:01:56 PM
Your post clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about what really caused us to be awful for years after Bird, McHale, and Parish retired.

Its not because we held them back, its because our management became worse than the current Bobcats management.

Picking antoine walker over Kobe and many other awful moves. If Pierce hadn't been drafted by us, we would have set the record for worst win/loss record long ago.

Plus, times were much different in the 80's than they are now. There is way too much talent in the league, compared to what it was at that time.

Moves like trading Joe Johnson for rent a players. Who we had for less then half a year that got us maybe one series closer.

Players have a trajectory.  i would rather have young ones on an upward slope now then aging ones on a downward.

Are people on this board insane?  Peirce does it 1 game in 5 at the most.  Garnett gets limited minutes and averages o.k numbers.


If the team was on the top then o.k. go with them, but there NOT!!!!!!!

People please stop holding onto sentiment.  Garnett can posture all he wants in a game, but in reality he is a mere contributor on a team with higher aspirations.

  Coming up with better arguments or possibly countering other people's points is a better strategy than calling everyone insane.

 
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: LooseCannon on February 17, 2013, 02:05:35 PM
That's the issue I think, we don't get huge cap flexibility when PP and KG leave

If KG retires after 2013-2014, the team should theoretically have the cap space (or be reasonably close enough to get there...I haven't rigorously done the math) to add a max-contract guy. 
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 02:06:11 PM
I'm completely torn on this issue.  At moments, I think of the valuable hauls we could amass for Pierce and/or Garnett, and I think, let's do it.  At other times, watching these guys play, I think, let's hang on to KG and the Truth for as long as they can still play.  Watching those two old masters is truly a treat.

I've resigned myself to not having any expectations for what this team will look like on February 21st.  This is an intense time to be a fan.  I can't wait for February 22nd.


I must be seeing something different.  I can't stand to watch this team.  You never know when they are going to blow a 20 plus point lead.  Their lack of consistency is so infuriating, and any way you want to shake it, it's due to age, and asking to much of these individuals at this stage of their career.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 17, 2013, 02:09:57 PM
I'm completely torn on this issue.  At moments, I think of the valuable hauls we could amass for Pierce and/or Garnett, and I think, let's do it.  At other times, watching these guys play, I think, let's hang on to KG and the Truth for as long as they can still play.  Watching those two old masters is truly a treat.

I've resigned myself to not having any expectations for what this team will look like on February 21st.  This is an intense time to be a fan.  I can't wait for February 22nd.


I must be seeing something different.  I can't stand to watch this team.  You never know when they are going to blow a 20 plus point lead.  Their lack of consistency is so infuriating, and any way you want to shake it, it's due to age, and asking to much of these individuals at this stage of their career.

And your plan is to trade KG, for example, for Bledsoe and Jordan... who you know, actually struggled this year to win with a better supporting cast just because they didn't have Chris Paul. Yeah, I don't see how you'll be alleviating your frustrations by doing this.

I don't know about you, but I'm kinda enjoying our 8-1 record over our last 9 games.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 17, 2013, 02:10:57 PM
If KG and pierce were hurting the team Id trade em. They are still doing alot of positive things. I agree tho, I can't see us beating the heat with this team. If we could get josh smith I might be singing a different tune. I'm not totally against blowing it up tho.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: badshar on February 17, 2013, 02:11:53 PM
Your post clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about what really caused us to be awful for years after Bird, McHale, and Parish retired.

Its not because we held them back, its because our management became worse than the current Bobcats management.

Picking antoine walker over Kobe and many other awful moves. If Pierce hadn't been drafted by us, we would have set the record for worst win/loss record long ago.

Plus, times were much different in the 80's than they are now. There is way too much talent in the league, compared to what it was at that time.

Moves like trading Joe Johnson for rent a players. Who we had for less then half a year that got us maybe one series closer.

Players have a trajectory.  i would rather have young ones on an upward slope now then aging ones on a downward.

Are people on this board insane?  Peirce does it 1 game in 5 at the most.  Garnett gets limited minutes and averages o.k numbers.


If the team was on the top then o.k. go with them, but there NOT!!!!!!!

People please stop holding onto sentiment.  Garnett can posture all he wants in a game, but in reality he is a mere contributor on a team with higher aspirations.
That is a ridiculous logic.

According to that logic, Wizards, Kings, Bobcats, Cavaliers, Pistons, Raptors, Bucks, 76ers, Hornets, Timberwolves, TrailBlazers, Rockets should all be doing very good since they all have young players with huge upside.

By the way, as for calling KG average, uhm, if Heat had KG right now, he would be starting over Bosh.
Last offseason, before it was revealed KG will resign with Celtics, there were reports of teams like Nets willing to give KG near-max contracts.

So saying he is average is complete BS, as more than 80% of this league would jump out to get him right away if given the opportunity to.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 02:13:08 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

This is the biggest BS I have seen on CelticsBlog yet.

The only youth that was there was Rondo. Aside from him, the 7 game series against the Heat was carried on the shoulders of KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo.

Your "youth" was the players on the bench, which scored a combined total of 2 points.

Let's examine the three series in last year's playoffs:

Hawks: All KG and some Pierce - NOT YOUTH
Sixers: KG/Pierce/Rondo - NOT MUCH OF A YOUTH
Heat: KG/Pierce/Rondo/Allen - NOT MUCH OF A YOUTH

You're posting clear BS. At least get valid reasoning for your argument.

I'm talking about where they were in the regular season before Avery Bradley sparked them.

Don't get me wrong.  I love the C's, and the heart of this team.  I loved last years play off run and it broke my heart.

Truth is though that run had a lot to do with providence.  The Hawks would have beat us with a healthy Josh Smith.  Philadelphia was lucky to be there as injuries to other teams let them get there.  They nearly beat the C's.  The C's were incapable of beating Miami with a healthy Bosh.  If he could have just stayed injured a few more games.


They can't count on that type of luck again.  Plus this team is not as good as last years.


So I appreciate the C's love.

Face it though, the run is over!

Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: LooseCannon on February 17, 2013, 02:17:48 PM
Face it though, the run is over!

A solid free agent big man, Rondo and Sullinger recovering, and the team defense being there at the start of the season and this team, if held together and not devastated by injuries, is a legitimate contender (but not among the favorites) next season.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: cman88 on February 17, 2013, 02:18:45 PM
with a healthy Rondo/Sully and the team playing like they are now, it would be better than last years team IMO.

we signed KG for 3 years(with the expectation he at least play 2 of them)

I dont understand why..ok, Rondo is injured and will be back next year...but lets blow it up and trade them for mediocrity on large contracts.

paying Deandre Jordan 11million$ isnt getting us closer to a championship than having Garnett next year.

and if Garnett retires I would rather have the cap-space to sign someone rather than pay an average center large $$
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 02:21:10 PM
Your post clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about what really caused us to be awful for years after Bird, McHale, and Parish retired.

Its not because we held them back, its because our management became worse than the current Bobcats management.

Picking antoine walker over Kobe and many other awful moves. If Pierce hadn't been drafted by us, we would have set the record for worst win/loss record long ago.

Plus, times were much different in the 80's than they are now. There is way too much talent in the league, compared to what it was at that time.

Moves like trading Joe Johnson for rent a players. Who we had for less then half a year that got us maybe one series closer.

Players have a trajectory.  i would rather have young ones on an upward slope now then aging ones on a downward.

Are people on this board insane?  Peirce does it 1 game in 5 at the most.  Garnett gets limited minutes and averages o.k numbers.


If the team was on the top then o.k. go with them, but there NOT!!!!!!!

People please stop holding onto sentiment.  Garnett can posture all he wants in a game, but in reality he is a mere contributor on a team with higher aspirations.
That is a ridiculous logic.

According to that logic, Wizards, Kings, Bobcats, Cavaliers, Pistons, Raptors, Bucks, 76ers, Hornets, Timberwolves, TrailBlazers, Rockets should all be doing very good since they all have young players with huge upside.

By the way, as for calling KG average, uhm, if Heat had KG right now, he would be starting over Bosh.
Last offseason, before it was revealed KG will resign with Celtics, there were reports of teams like Nets willing to give KG near-max contracts.

So saying he is average is complete BS, as more than 80% of this league would jump out to get him right away if given the opportunity to.


We were exactly in that cluster when Danny Ainge sprung his trade magic.  So were the heat before Bosh and Lebron came their way.

I see us now where the Pistons were after their run.  Now look where they are.

I would rather have potential young talent.  It gives you more leverage for future.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: wdleehi on February 17, 2013, 02:21:23 PM
If the Celtics are given a great rebooting offer (the clippers rumor is not), then yes, the Celtics should trade them.



But since it is not likely to happen, keep them.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 17, 2013, 02:21:50 PM
And what exactly are we going to get for them?

Pierce is only attractive to a contender and that means we wont get high draft picks and/or expirings for him. So is KG.

Why trade youre old yet still productive players for basically something that wouldnt even help us in the future?

If were getting a superstar in return then you have a point, but no, we wont get that with KG and PP, instead we are getting guys who are young yet has the potential to be underachievers and will cost money to keep.

Id rather have my productive, LOYAL, and proud vets who sre still productive.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 02:23:20 PM
with a healthy Rondo/Sully and the team playing like they are now, it would be better than last years team IMO.

we signed KG for 3 years(with the expectation he at least play 2 of them)

I dont understand why..ok, Rondo is injured and will be back next year...but lets blow it up and trade them for mediocrity on large contracts.

paying Deandre Jordan 11million$ isnt getting us closer to a championship than having Garnett next year.

and if Garnett retires I would rather have the cap-space to sign someone rather than pay an average center large $$

I had an acl.  It takes one year to return and two to be at full form.  Look at Rose. and Brady. 

Only freek I've seen do it is Wes Welker.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: wahz on February 17, 2013, 02:24:26 PM
Your post clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about what really caused us to be awful for years after Bird, McHale, and Parish retired.

Its not because we held them back, its because our management became worse than the current Bobcats management.

Picking antoine walker over Kobe and many other awful moves. If Pierce hadn't been drafted by us, we would have set the record for worst win/loss record long ago.

Plus, times were much different in the 80's than they are now. There is way too much talent in the league, compared to what it was at that time.

Moves like trading Joe Johnson for rent a players. Who we had for less then half a year that got us maybe one series closer.

Players have a trajectory.  i would rather have young ones on an upward slope now then aging ones on a downward.

Are people on this board insane?  Peirce does it 1 game in 5 at the most.  Garnett gets limited minutes and averages o.k numbers.


If the team was on the top then o.k. go with them, but there NOT!!!!!!!

People please stop holding onto sentiment.  Garnett can posture all he wants in a game, but in reality he is a mere contributor on a team with higher aspirations.

  Coming up with better arguments or possibly countering other people's points is a better strategy than calling everyone insane.

 


We had poor management from the mid 90's on and that was lets say 60% of the issue. BUT we had catastrophic luck

1. Bias dies
2. Reggie Lewis dies
3. We don't get Duncan because of the ping pong balls

The league does nothing to give us a break after the deaths of our players
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 17, 2013, 02:25:59 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

This is the biggest BS I have seen on CelticsBlog yet.

The only youth that was there was Rondo. Aside from him, the 7 game series against the Heat was carried on the shoulders of KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo.

Your "youth" was the players on the bench, which scored a combined total of 2 points.

Let's examine the three series in last year's playoffs:

Hawks: All KG and some Pierce - NOT YOUTH
Sixers: KG/Pierce/Rondo - NOT MUCH OF A YOUTH
Heat: KG/Pierce/Rondo/Allen - NOT MUCH OF A YOUTH

You're posting clear BS. At least get valid reasoning for your argument.

For a guy who completely ave up on this Celtics team after 20 or so games, you seem very passionate all of a sudden. (Thats right I remember, and I told you so.)

What happened? Is it because they are winning now? Riiiiiiight.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: badshar on February 17, 2013, 02:26:27 PM
Man, the thought of trading them is nauseating to me. Don't understand the lack of appreciation for loyalty. It's so rare today and, imho, that's what makes sports awesome (and the NBA much better last generation).

Get real?  It wasn't long ago we got both Garnett and Allen for teams who said the same thing.

In the NBA this loyalty thing only applies when we are looking at our own teams.


The Patriots constantly flip players to stay on top and people wage against coach B., and he always proves them wrong.


Why do you want to keep a team together that has no chance of winning a championship??????????

Sentiment only gets you years further into the future.

Why go for a slow burn?  Why not a bonfire when you know burning up is inevitable.



Better now then later.
The first bolded comment: KG wasn't happy that Timberwolves traded him. He was still loyal as crazy to them even though it was clear that they were garbage and couldn't do anything. Yet KG remained loyal and even though he was happy that Allen is also joining him along with Pierce, he was still ticked off that Timberwolves traded him, hence he dislikes that place till today.

As for Timberwolves trading them, McHale was the GM, in case you didn't know. He could have traded him to Lakers or Celtics. As a former Celtic, he decided to help his team out.

The second bolded comment: With that logic, Bobcats, Cavaliers, Kings, Hornets, Timberwolves, Suns, Bucks, Magic should all rebuild every year, since they don't have chance to win a championship this year.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: cman88 on February 17, 2013, 02:27:20 PM
with a healthy Rondo/Sully and the team playing like they are now, it would be better than last years team IMO.

we signed KG for 3 years(with the expectation he at least play 2 of them)

I dont understand why..ok, Rondo is injured and will be back next year...but lets blow it up and trade them for mediocrity on large contracts.

paying Deandre Jordan 11million$ isnt getting us closer to a championship than having Garnett next year.

and if Garnett retires I would rather have the cap-space to sign someone rather than pay an average center large $$

I had an acl.  It takes one year to return and two to be at full form.  Look at Rose. and Brady. 

Only freek I've seen do it is Wes Welker.

and Adrian Peterson...

also, Rondo has a Partial tear which is not as severe as a full tear..his recovery wont be as long as say Rose
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Geo123 on February 17, 2013, 02:27:38 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

Well since KG has a complete no trade contract it's not really Ainge's choice is it?
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: badshar on February 17, 2013, 02:30:13 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

This is the biggest BS I have seen on CelticsBlog yet.

The only youth that was there was Rondo. Aside from him, the 7 game series against the Heat was carried on the shoulders of KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo.

Your "youth" was the players on the bench, which scored a combined total of 2 points.

Let's examine the three series in last year's playoffs:

Hawks: All KG and some Pierce - NOT YOUTH
Sixers: KG/Pierce/Rondo - NOT MUCH OF A YOUTH
Heat: KG/Pierce/Rondo/Allen - NOT MUCH OF A YOUTH

You're posting clear BS. At least get valid reasoning for your argument.

For a guy who completely ave up on this Celtics team after 20 or so games, you seem very passionate all of a sudden. (Thats right I remember, and I told you so.)

What happened? Is it because they are winning now? Riiiiiiight.
1. I don't see how the quoted comment has anything to do with me supporting them this year.

2. I have never said that I am not a fan, but instead, out of frustration, I have said that I am losing hope on this team.

3. Its sports, any fan will become frustrated when their team loses and be happy when they are winning.

4. I don't care whether you call me a fan or a bandwagon, only I know that I am a true fan and maybe a few others.

5. Lastly, many people on this forum have said at one point or another about how much we suck and have been frustrated, but that doesn't mean they are no longer fans.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 02:31:15 PM
The winning streak now is fools gold.

Look at the schedule, and you will see why.

Large number of home games in a row.  That will change.  This team is a 500, low play off seed.  I would predict one and done.  Though they might surprise as they have before.


Even so,  Can anyone really see a championship here?

What are so many waiting for?  Another loosing streak and everyone will change their tune.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 02:34:49 PM
with a healthy Rondo/Sully and the team playing like they are now, it would be better than last years team IMO.

we signed KG for 3 years(with the expectation he at least play 2 of them)

I dont understand why..ok, Rondo is injured and will be back next year...but lets blow it up and trade them for mediocrity on large contracts.

paying Deandre Jordan 11million$ isnt getting us closer to a championship than having Garnett next year.

and if Garnett retires I would rather have the cap-space to sign someone rather than pay an average center large $$

I had an acl.  It takes one year to return and two to be at full form.  Look at Rose. and Brady. 

Only freek I've seen do it is Wes Welker.

and Adrian Peterson...

also, Rondo has a Partial tear which is not as severe as a full tear..his recovery wont be as long as say Rose

I hope your right.  I love watching Rondo play.  Let us not forget though, for every Petersen their are many more on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: KG_ended_Bias on February 17, 2013, 02:35:14 PM
If we get Josh Smith & get to keep Green,KG,Pierce,Rondo you don't blow it up. Jeff Green at the SG is intriguing because he's totally capable of playing there. Pierce can also play there & a lineup of our starters from 2-5 would be the biggest most athletic lineupin the league including the Heat. We would have to maybe talk a Marbury,T-Mac,Yi or K-Mart into signing short term for cheap but I thinks its worth the gamble because our top 5 would trump to Miami's. And going forward next year with a healthy Rondo & Sullinger we would have to be a top 4 team preaseason u can slot even as favorites. So I say stay together & improve but break it up if we are forced to stay the same as we are now, Brandon Bass as our starting PF won't get it done.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: Onslaught on February 17, 2013, 02:36:31 PM
Quote
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.

Not true.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis dying set us back a generation.  Terrible drafting and bad management coupled with terrible ownership set us back a generation.

It had nothing to do with not trading Larry and McHale for a bunch of decent / mediocre non-stars.
I agree with this 100%. We had one of the top teams even at the end of the Bird run and they had a shot of going to the Finals. We had bad luck with are two best players dying and then a horrible run of management after that.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: badshar on February 17, 2013, 02:37:02 PM
The winning streak now is fools gold.

Look at the schedule, and you will see why.

Large number of home games in a row.  That will change.  This team is a 500, low play off seed.  I would predict one and done.  Though they might surprise as they have before.


Even so,  Can anyone really see a championship here?

What are so many waiting for?  Another loosing streak and everyone will change their tune.
Fans get frustrated when their teams lose and become happy when they win. Its nothing new.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: gpap on February 17, 2013, 02:44:40 PM
I think at this point an argument can be made both ways.

The argument to blowing the team up is since 2008, we just haven't won a title. Now granted, fans are quick to mention injuries, crooked officiating (myself included, see 2010 finals), yada, yada.

But facts are facts. We are on a 5 year championship drought and though the Celts have been consistently competitive since 2008, they've just always come up short.

Last year was a prime example. The Celts had Miami right where they wanted them, heading into game 6. The Celts play that night was inexcusable as dominate as Lebron was. The Celtics from 2008 would've crush Miami last year in game 6. However, Pierce and KG are now 5 years older.

So hence, it's very hard to convince me we can win a title this year when we couldn't do it last year (or the year before, or the year before that.)

The argument for competing this year as (and I believe) if we can land one more big time player like Josh Smith next to KG and Pierce, that could be the difference maker to at least making ito the finals.

But the barometer should always be whether we can win a title, not just making it to the 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Tr1boy on February 17, 2013, 02:47:15 PM
The op is dead wrong. This is not a team of Bird, Parish, Mchale and a bunch of nobodies.

Even without KG and PP , this team could still contend for the 6th to 8th place and make the playoffs. That is like being one big or two more key pieces away from having a chance to make some noise.

Without KG and PP

Starting: Sully - Bass - Green - Bradley - Rondo
Bench: Lee- Melo - Jet - Barbosa - 2 Forward pickups

Again this would be still a very good team. If you take away bass , place him on the bench and get an elite PF/Sf, you got a very good team that is not rebuild quality.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: colincb on February 17, 2013, 02:51:09 PM
The op is dead wrong. This is not a team of Bird, Parish, Mchale and a bunch of nobodies.

Even without KG and PP , this team could still contend for the 6th to 8th place and make the playoffs. That is like being one big or two more key pieces away from having a chance to make some noise.

Without KG and PP

Starting: Sully - Bass - Green - Bradley - Rondo
Bench: Lee- Melo - Jet - Barbosa - 2 Forward pickups

Again this would be still a very good team. If you take away bass , place him on the bench and get an elite PF/Sf, you got a very good team that is not rebuild quality.
Lotteryland.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Celtics18 on February 17, 2013, 02:54:44 PM
I'm completely torn on this issue.  At moments, I think of the valuable hauls we could amass for Pierce and/or Garnett, and I think, let's do it.  At other times, watching these guys play, I think, let's hang on to KG and the Truth for as long as they can still play.  Watching those two old masters is truly a treat.

I've resigned myself to not having any expectations for what this team will look like on February 21st.  This is an intense time to be a fan.  I can't wait for February 22nd.


I must be seeing something different.  I can't stand to watch this team.  You never know when they are going to blow a 20 plus point lead.  Their lack of consistency is so infuriating, and any way you want to shake it, it's due to age, and asking to much of these individuals at this stage of their career.

Yup.  I guess we must be seeing different things. 
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: rondohondo on February 17, 2013, 02:54:49 PM
The op is dead wrong. This is not a team of Bird, Parish, Mchale and a bunch of nobodies.

Even without KG and PP , this team could still contend for the 6th to 8th place and make the playoffs. That is like being one big or two more key pieces away from having a chance to make some noise.

Without KG and PP

Starting: Sully - Bass - Green - Bradley - Rondo
Bench: Lee- Melo - Jet - Barbosa - 2 Forward pickups

Again this would be still a very good team. If you take away bass , place him on the bench and get an elite PF/Sf, you got a very good team that is not rebuild quality.
Lotteryland.

Yea seriously, thats a starting lineup of rondo snd role players....
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: LooseCannon on February 17, 2013, 02:55:04 PM
And what exactly are we going to get for them?

Pierce is only attractive to a contender and that means we wont get high draft picks and/or expirings for him. So is KG.

Pierce's contract is theoretically attractive to a team in salary cap hell due to its partially-guaranteed final year.  Find a team willing to part with a nice draft pick to be packaged with a long-term contract they are desperate to get rid of.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: gpap on February 17, 2013, 02:55:29 PM
The op is dead wrong. This is not a team of Bird, Parish, Mchale and a bunch of nobodies.

Even without KG and PP , this team could still contend for the 6th to 8th place and make the playoffs. That is like being one big or two more key pieces away from having a chance to make some noise.

Without KG and PP

Starting: Sully - Bass - Green - Bradley - Rondo
Bench: Lee- Melo - Jet - Barbosa - 2 Forward pickups

Again this would be still a very good team. If you take away bass , place him on the bench and get an elite PF/Sf, you got a very good team that is not rebuild quality.

With all due respect, I've got to disagree. I just don't think a team of Sully, Rondo, Green, Bass and AB is that good.

If you insert a player like Dwight or Smoove into that mix, then maybe. But if you just simply subtract KG and Pierce from our roster, then all you have is one talented but overrated point guard a bunch of decent role players. That team wins maybe 40 games and that's it
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 17, 2013, 02:57:34 PM
don't believe the rumors... at their age, we can't get anything of substantial value for KG or Pierce... and neither would sign off on a trade anyways.

Just enjoy the last months of these old dogs and hope for the best.

I know you're all salivating over the prospect of losing one of our best players for the great eric bledsoe, but if tanking is your grand plan, you're better off just letting them retire and coming up empty handed. 
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 17, 2013, 03:01:01 PM
The winning streak now is fools gold.

Look at the schedule, and you will see why.

Large number of home games in a row.  That will change.  This team is a 500, low play off seed.  I would predict one and done.  Though they might surprise as they have before.


Even so,  Can anyone really see a championship here?

What are so many waiting for?  Another loosing streak and everyone will change their tune.

Can you see a championship team from what we are getting for KG and Paul? Can you see a future championship team with DeAndre Jordan (who's owed a ton by the way), Eric Bledsoe (who needs to get paid too) and whatever we can get from Pierce (which is realistically speaking, not a lot)?

If anything we have a much better puncher's chance of winning the title with them than with whoever they will get traded for.

KG will not get traded unless it's for a contender, and most contenders don't have a ton of assets that would be able to help us in the future. Pierce has little value to rebuilding teams, so we're back to the no assets return.

So tell me, would you rather have a team who makes the playoffs for 5 straight years, overpay it's players and lose in the 1st round all the time? Or just keep KG and Pierce, let them finish their contracts, have a puncher's chance of winning when Rondo is back and have a ton of cap flexibility in the next two years?

Also, like I said, if we're going to land a Superstar from them, then you have a point. My last question is, do you possibly think we can land that Superstar with KG and Paul? If you say yes, please explain it to us. And I will concede and rest my case.

Until then, IMO you are wrong on this.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: JBcat on February 17, 2013, 03:03:21 PM
If we hold on to Pierce and KG we will be just fine in 2 or 3 years time.   With the assets we have to go in a couple different directions.   

Rondo, Green, Bass, and Lee will all be around 28 in their prime.   We could possibly add to that to be contenders with our cap space, and get a legit go to scorer star to go along with the younger players Bradley, Sully, maybe Melo, and the draft picks we get in the next couple years.

Or if continuing to be a playoff or deep playoff team is a stretch we could go into selloff mode.   Trade Rondo, Green, Bass, Lee, and whatever veterans we have for draft picks, young players, taking on dead weight contracts if need be such a Lenfrenz's and Ratliff's in years past.  Sully and Bradley will still be very young then, so you could keep them around to grow with other young players.

I'd much rather see KG and Pierce retire in green, then go into 1 of the 2 avenues mentioned above.   
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 17, 2013, 03:05:22 PM
And what exactly are we going to get for them?

Pierce is only attractive to a contender and that means we wont get high draft picks and/or expirings for him. So is KG.

Pierce's contract is theoretically attractive to a team in salary cap hell due to its partially-guaranteed final year.  Find a team willing to part with a nice draft pick to be packaged with a long-term contract they are desperate to get rid of.

So are we keeping that long term contract instead of keeping Pierce who will have one more year left? Because I'd rather keep Pierce and his production if that's the case.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on February 17, 2013, 03:05:28 PM
We absolutely should NOT trade Kevin Garnett OR Paul Pierce....or Rajon Rondo, for that matter.

The Boston Celtics are NOT like most sports franchises...there is a TON of tradition, here...legends....traditions and legends that are household names to THIS DAY:

Cousy...Russell...Havlicek...Cowens...McHale...Chief...Larry...DJ...Ainge.....

Fast-Forward to now? The ONLY 2 or perhaps 3 players that carry on Boston's storied history are: KG, Paul Pierce, and Rajon Rondo. These three, to me, embody what the Boston Celtics are.

These three now carry on that tradition.

To trade ANY ONE of these three, IMHO, will start to shatter those traditions...that aura of The Celtics.

You don't take the heart out of a team and give it to another team....that is NOT what the Boston Celtics are about....at least the way I've known them.

We trade these two or three, for whatever reason, and we become just like every other franchise out there.

We don't see the San Antonio Spurs talking about trading Tim Duncan, do we? Do a search on Tim Duncan Trade Rumors - you won't find NOT A ONE.

So why trade away the three players that have, IMO, exemplified what it means to be a Boston Celtic?

Danny - don't trade these three...I believe there is still some considerable talent left, and a decent shot at going deep into the playoffs this year...please let KG and Paul retire as Celtics, and just rebuild this team through free agency or the draft.

Don't let The Boston Celtics become like other franchises out there...grasping for straws. There is TOO MUCH tradition, here.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: LooseCannon on February 17, 2013, 03:11:27 PM
And what exactly are we going to get for them?

Pierce is only attractive to a contender and that means we wont get high draft picks and/or expirings for him. So is KG.

Pierce's contract is theoretically attractive to a team in salary cap hell due to its partially-guaranteed final year.  Find a team willing to part with a nice draft pick to be packaged with a long-term contract they are desperate to get rid of.

So are we keeping that long term contract instead of keeping Pierce who will have one more year left? Because I'd rather keep Pierce and his production if that's the case.

I'm opposed to trading Pierce.  I'd only consider it if I thought the team was bad enough that I wouldn't mind having that toxic contract because the team can't possibly be a contender anyways before that contract is over.  I'm just pointing out that you're wrong if you think Pierce is only attractive to a contender.  Some people here would probably want to pounce immediately, though, if you could trade Pierce for whatever they consider the worst contract in the NBA plus a likely top 3 first-round pick.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Bahku on February 17, 2013, 03:17:29 PM
Funny, hanging onto Bird and McHale was one of the last true examples of loyalty and old-school team pride that I remember in this league, and it was absolutely the right thing to do, as keeping Paul and KG would be, and letting them retire in green. Robert Parish did not end his career as a Celtic, so I'm not sure why he's being included here.

There is still much to be said for team loyalty, IMHO, and for letting guys who have brought us so much pleasure and excitement and playoff successes, end their careers in the cities that they have done so much for, and where the fans adore them and care a bit more for tradition than they do for the bottom line.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: BballTim on February 17, 2013, 03:19:02 PM
don't believe the rumors... at their age, we can't get anything of substantial value for KG or Pierce... and neither would sign off on a trade anyways.

Just enjoy the last months of these old dogs and hope for the best.


  If they don't get traded I wouldn't say that their leaving at the end of the season is a done deal.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Celtics18 on February 17, 2013, 03:21:20 PM
We absolutely should NOT trade Kevin Garnett OR Paul Pierce....or Rajon Rondo, for that matter.

The Boston Celtics are NOT like most sports franchises...there is a TON of tradition, here...legends....traditions and legends that are household names to THIS DAY:

Cousy...Russell...Havlicek...Cowens...McHale...Chief...Larry...DJ...Ainge.....

Fast-Forward to now? The ONLY 2 or perhaps 3 players that carry on Boston's storied history are: KG, Paul Pierce, and Rajon Rondo. These three, to me, embody what the Boston Celtics are.

These three now carry on that tradition.

To trade ANY ONE of these three, IMHO, will start to shatter those traditions...that aura of The Celtics.

You don't take the heart out of a team and give it to another team....that is NOT what the Boston Celtics are about....at least the way I've known them.

We trade these two or three, for whatever reason, and we become just like every other franchise out there.

We don't see the San Antonio Spurs talking about trading Tim Duncan, do we? Do a search on Tim Duncan Trade Rumors - you won't find NOT A ONE.

So why trade away the three players that have, IMO, exemplified what it means to be a Boston Celtic?

Danny - don't trade these three...I believe there is still some considerable talent left, and a decent shot at going deep into the playoffs this year...please let KG and Paul retire as Celtics, and just rebuild this team through free agency or the draft.

Don't let The Boston Celtics become like other franchises out there...grasping for straws. There is TOO MUCH tradition, here.

TP!!
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: goz421 on February 17, 2013, 03:29:43 PM
If nothing goes down I will return soon to say i told you so.


Now is a crucial time for this franchise.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: Eja117 on February 17, 2013, 03:49:01 PM
Quote
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.

Not true.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis dying set us back a generation.  Terrible drafting and bad management coupled with terrible ownership set us back a generation.

It had nothing to do with not trading Larry and McHale for a bunch of decent / mediocre non-stars.
I agree with this generally.  Red couldn't have had a crystal ball to know what would happen with Bird's back. And I'm not sure how much he could have gotten for an older banged up guy.  The era of the super athletic dunker (Jordan) was rising and the era of fundamental guys like Bird was fading.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 17, 2013, 03:49:48 PM
don't believe the rumors... at their age, we can't get anything of substantial value for KG or Pierce... and neither would sign off on a trade anyways.

Just enjoy the last months of these old dogs and hope for the best.

I know you're all salivating over the prospect of losing one of our best players for the great eric bledsoe, but if tanking is your grand plan, you're better off just letting them retire and coming up empty handed.

The response to this is easy.  If you are correct, then obviously you are best off keepign PP and KG and awaiting cap space.   If you aren't correct, you entertain the value offered and consider the jump-started rebuild.

I see both KG and PP as extremely attractive pieces to at least a 1/2 dozen contenders (or almost contenders).  They not only bring their talent, they bring a winning spirit and leadership.  Trade future value for present value (if present value takes you to contention) is smart business in the NBA.  But, of course, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: slamdunk on February 17, 2013, 04:03:44 PM
If the Celtics are given a great rebooting offer (the clippers rumor is not), then yes, the Celtics should trade them.



But since it is not likely to happen, keep them.

Agreed. You're better off holding onto them then trading them for mediocre young players/picks.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: scaryjerry on February 17, 2013, 04:10:30 PM
The op is dead wrong. This is not a team of Bird, Parish, Mchale and a bunch of nobodies.

Even without KG and PP , this team could still contend for the 6th to 8th place and make the playoffs. That is like being one big or two more key pieces away from having a chance to make some noise.

Without KG and PP

Starting: Sully - Bass - Green - Bradley - Rondo
Bench: Lee- Melo - Jet - Barbosa - 2 Forward pickups

Again this would be still a very good team. If you take away bass , place him on the bench and get an elite PF/Sf, you got a very good team that is not rebuild quality.

With all due respect, I've got to disagree. I just don't think a team of Sully, Rondo, Green, Bass and AB is that good.

If you insert a player like Dwight or Smoove into that mix, then maybe. But if you just simply subtract KG and Pierce from our roster, then all you have is one talented but overrated point guard a bunch of decent role players. That team wins maybe 40 games and that's it

So you disagree but go on to say they could win 40 games?...so you pretty much agreed
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Onslaught on February 17, 2013, 04:23:02 PM
If nothing goes down I will return soon to say i told you so.


Now is a crucial time for this franchise.
And if something goes down and we get young scrubs for #5 & 34 and in 2-3 years we're the Bobcats part II will you come back and let others say "I told you so?"
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: BballTim on February 17, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

What set us back a generation was bad management (like Pitino), health problems (Lewis), and drug problems (Bias), to go along a slew of other problems like Vin Baker's alcoholism.

Holding to Parish, Bird, and McHale for too long are not the reason for our level of irrelevance through an era.

  We didn't hold on to Bird for too long. We were contenders when he was healthy and wouldn't have been if we'd replaced him with any assets we could have traded him for. You don't close the window on a contending team in order to start your rebuild a year or two early.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 17, 2013, 04:28:17 PM
don't believe the rumors... at their age, we can't get anything of substantial value for KG or Pierce... and neither would sign off on a trade anyways.

Just enjoy the last months of these old dogs and hope for the best.

I know you're all salivating over the prospect of losing one of our best players for the great eric bledsoe, but if tanking is your grand plan, you're better off just letting them retire and coming up empty handed.

The response to this is easy.  If you are correct, then obviously you are best off keepign PP and KG and awaiting cap space.   If you aren't correct, you entertain the value offered and consider the jump-started rebuild.

I see both KG and PP as extremely attractive pieces to at least a 1/2 dozen contenders (or almost contenders).  They not only bring their talent, they bring a winning spirit and leadership.  Trade future value for present value (if present value takes you to contention) is smart business in the NBA.  But, of course, I could be wrong.
They are attractive pieces if we are giving them away for cheap... and I don't see the point in that.  Nobody is giving up a valuable asset for possibly a half season of KG or Pierce.  The time to trade Pierce would have been 1 or two years ago... and according to rumors we absolutely tried to do that, but Pierce killed the deal.  We supposedly tried to trade him to the Nets last season for their lotto pick, but Pierce put a stop to it... probably by threatening retirement or something.   

He's a year older, less valuable... and I don't see why this would be any different.  Neither are going anywhere and we aren't getting anything much from them anyways.  So just enjoy the months we have left of them.  Probably like 15 months at most.  Just enjoy it.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 17, 2013, 04:40:37 PM
no way you take squat for two Hall of Fame players that still bring it. and help fill the seats.

Pierce and KG is a once a life time deal.

I hope they  play for the Celtics as long as they feel like suiting up.   long as they want a spot on the team, I'll support them.

Love watching them , they are the heart and soul of this club........they still make everybody else better.

Wyc and DA won' t be dumb enough to do this .
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 17, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
lets face it... Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler aren't walking through that door, folks.  You'll have to make due with Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: CoachBo on February 17, 2013, 04:43:18 PM
Indeed they won't.

They don't have the bizarre fascination some board posters have with putting together a team of scrubs, and then posting incessantly trying to convince each other that said scrubs can actually play.

See 2006 and 2007 on this very blog.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: jdz101 on February 17, 2013, 04:51:01 PM
lets face it... Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler aren't walking through that door, folks.  You'll have to make due with Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce

Dagnabbit I'm so shattered about that.

**Sarcasm meter explodes, sending shards of sarcasm into the atmosphere.**
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Tr1boy on February 17, 2013, 04:52:11 PM
The op is dead wrong. This is not a team of Bird, Parish, Mchale and a bunch of nobodies.

Even without KG and PP , this team could still contend for the 6th to 8th place and make the playoffs. That is like being one big or two more key pieces away from having a chance to make some noise.

Without KG and PP

Starting: Sully - Bass - Green - Bradley - Rondo
Bench: Lee- Melo - Jet - Barbosa - 2 Forward pickups

Again this would be still a very good team. If you take away bass , place him on the bench and get an elite PF/Sf, you got a very good team that is not rebuild quality.

With all due respect, I've got to disagree. I just don't think a team of Sully, Rondo, Green, Bass and AB is that good.

If you insert a player like Dwight or Smoove into that mix, then maybe. But if you just simply subtract KG and Pierce from our roster, then all you have is one talented but overrated point guard a bunch of decent role players. That team wins maybe 40 games and that's it

So you disagree but go on to say they could win 40 games?...so you pretty much agreed

i agree. With 40 wins, you are around the 6th to 8th place area. So how could a team that makes the playoffs be considered dead in the water?? It would just take one key FA signing to get us to be pretty darn good again

Last time i checked  Green, Bradley and now Sully are not only so called role players. These guys are starters. Sully is on his way to be a 10/10 guy, Jeff Green 15 pts/6-8 boards/5 assists for a sf and bradley doesn't have to do jack , except defend like a hound to help your team.

Instead of Bass we sign Josh Smith or trade Rondo , get a legit PF , we can remain a dangerous team. Better than atl or 76rs at least
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 17, 2013, 05:18:51 PM
The op is dead wrong. This is not a team of Bird, Parish, Mchale and a bunch of nobodies.

Even without KG and PP , this team could still contend for the 6th to 8th place and make the playoffs. That is like being one big or two more key pieces away from having a chance to make some noise.

Without KG and PP

Starting: Sully - Bass - Green - Bradley - Rondo
Bench: Lee- Melo - Jet - Barbosa - 2 Forward pickups

Again this would be still a very good team. If you take away bass , place him on the bench and get an elite PF/Sf, you got a very good team that is not rebuild quality.

With all due respect, I've got to disagree. I just don't think a team of Sully, Rondo, Green, Bass and AB is that good.

If you insert a player like Dwight or Smoove into that mix, then maybe. But if you just simply subtract KG and Pierce from our roster, then all you have is one talented but overrated point guard a bunch of decent role players. That team wins maybe 40 games and that's it

So you disagree but go on to say they could win 40 games?...so you pretty much agreed

I would be stunned if that roster won 40 games.  Losing PP and KG not only takes away 2 of their 3 most talented players, but team changes dramatically in leadership and culture. It is unknown how others fill the leadership gap and how the culture changes. 
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Tr1boy on February 17, 2013, 05:21:25 PM
The op is dead wrong. This is not a team of Bird, Parish, Mchale and a bunch of nobodies.

Even without KG and PP , this team could still contend for the 6th to 8th place and make the playoffs. That is like being one big or two more key pieces away from having a chance to make some noise.

Without KG and PP

Starting: Sully - Bass - Green - Bradley - Rondo
Bench: Lee- Melo - Jet - Barbosa - 2 Forward pickups

Again this would be still a very good team. If you take away bass , place him on the bench and get an elite PF/Sf, you got a very good team that is not rebuild quality.

With all due respect, I've got to disagree. I just don't think a team of Sully, Rondo, Green, Bass and AB is that good.

If you insert a player like Dwight or Smoove into that mix, then maybe. But if you just simply subtract KG and Pierce from our roster, then all you have is one talented but overrated point guard a bunch of decent role players. That team wins maybe 40 games and that's it

So you disagree but go on to say they could win 40 games?...so you pretty much agreed

I would be stunned if that roster won 40 games.  Losing PP and KG not only takes away 2 of their 3 most talented players, but team changes dramatically in leadership and culture. It is unknown how others fill the leadership gap and how the culture changes.

It is unknown i agree. But i bet if Jeff Green had to be the go to guy, he would do a more than decent job. He can post or take his man off the dribble. Also a decent shooter that can get even better in clutch situations. You try to double team him and thats ok, bc he is a fantastic passer. Terry is still a very capable clutch guy. We don't know about Sully but he hasn't be given the chance. In Ohio state, he was their go to guy and did a pretty darn good job.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 17, 2013, 05:22:55 PM
don't believe the rumors... at their age, we can't get anything of substantial value for KG or Pierce... and neither would sign off on a trade anyways.

Just enjoy the last months of these old dogs and hope for the best.

I know you're all salivating over the prospect of losing one of our best players for the great eric bledsoe, but if tanking is your grand plan, you're better off just letting them retire and coming up empty handed.

The response to this is easy.  If you are correct, then obviously you are best off keepign PP and KG and awaiting cap space.   If you aren't correct, you entertain the value offered and consider the jump-started rebuild.

I see both KG and PP as extremely attractive pieces to at least a 1/2 dozen contenders (or almost contenders).  They not only bring their talent, they bring a winning spirit and leadership.  Trade future value for present value (if present value takes you to contention) is smart business in the NBA.  But, of course, I could be wrong.
They are attractive pieces if we are giving them away for cheap... and I don't see the point in that.  Nobody is giving up a valuable asset for possibly a half season of KG or Pierce.  The time to trade Pierce would have been 1 or two years ago... and according to rumors we absolutely tried to do that, but Pierce killed the deal.  We supposedly tried to trade him to the Nets last season for their lotto pick, but Pierce put a stop to it... probably by threatening retirement or something.   

He's a year older, less valuable... and I don't see why this would be any different.  Neither are going anywhere and we aren't getting anything much from them anyways.  So just enjoy the months we have left of them.  Probably like 15 months at most.  Just enjoy it.

There's no argument.  If they don't offer valuable pieces, there is no discussion.   You and I only disagree about the likelihood that something valuable will be offered.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Eja117 on February 17, 2013, 05:27:34 PM
lets face it... Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler aren't walking through that door, folks.  You'll have to make due with Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce

Dagnabbit I'm so shattered about that.

**Sarcasm meter explodes, sending shards of sarcasm into the atmosphere.**
as long as you didn't use hyperbole, orange/apple comparisons, or get accused of straw man arguments.  We wouldn't want you to get too interesting or anything
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: libermaniac on February 17, 2013, 05:43:42 PM
Indeed they won't.

They don't have the bizarre fascination some board posters have with putting together a team of scrubs, and then posting incessantly trying to convince each other that said scrubs can actually play.

See 2006 and 2007 on this very blog.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the scrubs from 2007 enable the trades that led to 2008 - present?
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: jdz101 on February 17, 2013, 05:44:43 PM
lets face it... Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler aren't walking through that door, folks.  You'll have to make due with Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce

Dagnabbit I'm so shattered about that.

**Sarcasm meter explodes, sending shards of sarcasm into the atmosphere.**
as long as you didn't use hyperbole, orange/apple comparisons, or get accused of straw man arguments.  We wouldn't want you to get too interesting or anything

I will argue my point WITH NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE!!!!

*takes marv albert hat off*

PS. Interesting is overrated.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: CoachBo on February 17, 2013, 06:04:29 PM
Indeed they won't.

They don't have the bizarre fascination some board posters have with putting together a team of scrubs, and then posting incessantly trying to convince each other that said scrubs can actually play.

See 2006 and 2007 on this very blog.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the scrubs from 2007 enable the trades that led to 2008 - present?
People who believe we traded value for Garnett and Allen are living in a deep world of denial.

Danny was there when two HOFers were being shopped for pennies on the dollar.

Our pennies landed the day.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 17, 2013, 06:20:09 PM
Indeed they won't.

They don't have the bizarre fascination some board posters have with putting together a team of scrubs, and then posting incessantly trying to convince each other that said scrubs can actually play.

See 2006 and 2007 on this very blog.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the scrubs from 2007 enable the trades that led to 2008 - present?
People who believe we traded value for Garnett and Allen are living in a deep world of denial.

Danny was there when two HOFers were being shopped for pennies on the dollar.

Our pennies landed the day.

This is now... what if it hadn't all worked out? Mmmm?
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!th
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 17, 2013, 06:22:25 PM
never take my Captain away......

Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Bombastic Jones on February 17, 2013, 07:13:21 PM
Other people have already mentioned that losing Bias, then losing Reggie, plus poor management was part of the Celtics down years.  I agree with that.  Let's also not forget that we traded AInge in 89 - after he was an all star the year before - and got back Ed Pickney and Joe Klein.  93 to 02 was really tough, but I don't think Chuck Person, Herb Williams, Steve Stipanovich, Detlef Schrempf and Sam Perkins was the magic wand to banner 17 in the early '90s.  In other words, trading talent does not guarantee fast rebuilding.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: TripleOT on February 17, 2013, 07:54:52 PM
People who believe we traded value for Garnett and Allen are living in a deep world of denial.

Danny was there when two HOFers were being shopped for pennies on the dollar.

Our pennies landed the day.

In NBA history older HOF type players have been traded for similar packages.  I'd  say it's more the rule than the exception.  Allen, who plays a position not kind to older players, was seen as in decline, coming off an ankle operation.  Seattle got what were considered two solid rotation guys and a top 5 pick.

In the KG deal, Minny got one of the best young post players in the league.  The rest of the package, in hindsight, was garbage, but at the time, Green, Telfair and Gomes were considered NBA rotation players.  They got a 6th pick, and foolishly chose Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry.  Ellington at 28 was a decent pick. If Minny took Curry, as they should have, and stuck with Big Al and Ellington, their haul for KG would look better.  They got Kosta Koufos and two first for Al. 

Looking at past trades of declining HOFers, teams either get back the classic "two dimes for a quarter" (Barkley for Hornacek and Perry), or a combination of lesser players and first round draft picks. It's what you do with those players and draft picks that will determine if the trade was worth it. 

If Minny took Curry instead of Flynn, kept Koufos instead of trading him for Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry, and did more with the draft picks they got for Big Al  (they could have had Chandler Parsons, Jared Sullinger and Nicola Mirotic, who could be a Dirk like player, amd will be in the NBA in the summer of 2014), they'd look differently at the KG trade.  Curry, Parsons, Sullinger and Mirotic for KG would look pretty good in a few years, added to the players they got with the high picks they "earned" when  losing post-KG. 

With the KG trade to the Clips, (a two dimes for a quarter trade) Boston already know what they're getting - two young guys with great potential.  DJ is already a solid player at a position difficult to fill, and Bledsoe looks to be a breakout performer. That's a good haul for an aging HOFer with only a few seasons left in the tank.           
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 17, 2013, 07:59:51 PM
They got a 6th pick, and foolishly chose Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry.  Ellington at 28 was a decent pick. If Minny took Curry, as they should have, and stuck with Big Al and Ellington, their haul for KG would look better.     

The Twolves actually didn't get that pick from us.  The pick we traded back to them was lottery protected, and couldn't come to us until two years after the Twolves conveyed their 1st rounder to the Clips.

Long story short, that first rounder eventually became a second rounder.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: TripleOT on February 17, 2013, 08:03:43 PM
They got a 6th pick, and foolishly chose Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry.  Ellington at 28 was a decent pick. If Minny took Curry, as they should have, and stuck with Big Al and Ellington, their haul for KG would look better.     

The Twolves actually didn't get that pick from us.  The pick we traded back to them was lottery protected, and couldn't come to us until two years after the Twolves conveyed their 1st rounder to the Clips.

Long story short, that first rounder eventually became a second rounder.

If that's the case, http://www.prosportstransactions.com is wrong.  From that site, here's what they have Minny getting for KG:

Quote
Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, 2009 protected first round pick (top 3 in 2009, top 2 in 2010, top 2 in 2011, unprotected in 2012) (#6-Jonny Flynn / Johnny Flynn), conditional first round pick (2009 #28-Wayne Ellington), cash
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 17, 2013, 08:05:41 PM
They got a 6th pick, and foolishly chose Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry.  Ellington at 28 was a decent pick. If Minny took Curry, as they should have, and stuck with Big Al and Ellington, their haul for KG would look better.     

The Twolves actually didn't get that pick from us.  The pick we traded back to them was lottery protected, and couldn't come to us until two years after the Twolves conveyed their 1st rounder to the Clips.

Long story short, that first rounder eventually became a second rounder.

If that's the case, http://www.prosportstransactions.com is wrong.  From that site, here's what they have Minny getting for KG:

Quote
Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, 2009 protected first round pick (top 3 in 2009, top 2 in 2010, top 2 in 2011, unprotected in 2012) (#6-Jonny Flynn / Johnny Flynn), conditional first round pick (2009 #28-Wayne Ellington), cash

Yes, they're wrong.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 17, 2013, 08:10:43 PM
Quote
Aside from our own picks, the Celtics are likely entitled to receive a future first-round pick from the Minnesota Timberwolves. Due to a league rule prohibiting teams from ever placing themselves in a situation where two consecutive future first-round picks have been traded away, the Celtics cannot receive the first round pick the Timberwolves owe from the Ricky Davis/Wally Szczerbiak trade until two years after the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers (from the Sam Cassell/Marko Jaric trade). However, because the Clippers trade involved top 10 "protection," Minnesota only has to send the pick to the Clippers if the pick falls outside the top 10 picks in the draft. Therefore, in future years, Celtics fans should be rooting for Minnesota to win (when, of course, they're not playing against the Celtics) until the Timberwolves finish a season out of the bottom ten, and send their pick to the Clippers. Two years after this occurs, the Timberwolves will send their first-round pick to the Celtics, subject to some "protection" which decreases annually after the first year in which we could receive the pick.*

        The situation is further complicated by a league rule that prevents any deals being made involving drafts more than 7 drafts into the future; as a result the Celtics cannot receive Minnesota's pick after the 2012 draft, since the Ricky/Wally trade was made before the 2006 draft. Therefore, if the Timberwolves do not send a pick to the Clippers by the end of the 2010 draft, the Celtics will be unable to receive the Timberwolves' first-round pick in 2012, and will instead receive a second-round pick in 2012.

    * For those die-hard draft fans who want all the details, here's how the protection on this pick works: If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2007, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2009 if it falls outside of the top 14, in 2010 if it falls outside of the top 5, in 2011 if it falls outside of the top 3, or in 2012 unconditionally. If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2008, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2010 if it falls outside of the top 14, in 2011 if it falls outside of the top 5, or in 2012 unconditionally. If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2009, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2011 if it falls outside the top 14, or in 2012 unconditionally. Finally, if the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2010, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2012 unconditionally.


http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/inside-the-numbers/numbers042006.html

The Clippers didn't get the Twolves' pick until 2012 (which was traded to New Orleans in the CP3 deal, and became Austin Rivers).

Read the bolded part above:  we would have ended up with a second rounder in 2012.  That's the pick we traded back to Minnesota.  The Celtics never, ever had the right to a lottery pick.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: BballTim on February 17, 2013, 08:17:40 PM
Indeed they won't.

They don't have the bizarre fascination some board posters have with putting together a team of scrubs, and then posting incessantly trying to convince each other that said scrubs can actually play.

See 2006 and 2007 on this very blog.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the scrubs from 2007 enable the trades that led to 2008 - present?
People who believe we traded value for Garnett and Allen are living in a deep world of denial.

Danny was there when two HOFers were being shopped for pennies on the dollar.

Our pennies landed the day.

  More likely people who understand the money aspects of the trades and what it's worth to teams to get out from under contracts than people in denial. Consider that we paid a #6 pick to flip Raef's contract for Theo's shorter contract, figure out how much more money Seattle saved on the Ray deal than we did on the Raef deal and see that they got a top 5 draft pick on top of that. It's not the bad deal you think it is because you're missing much of what Seattle gained in the deal.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: EvilEmpire on February 17, 2013, 11:58:06 PM
They got a 6th pick, and foolishly chose Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry.  Ellington at 28 was a decent pick. If Minny took Curry, as they should have, and stuck with Big Al and Ellington, their haul for KG would look better.     

The Twolves actually didn't get that pick from us.  The pick we traded back to them was lottery protected, and couldn't come to us until two years after the Twolves conveyed their 1st rounder to the Clips.

Long story short, that first rounder eventually became a second rounder.

If that's the case, http://www.prosportstransactions.com is wrong.  From that site, here's what they have Minny getting for KG:

Quote
Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, 2009 protected first round pick (top 3 in 2009, top 2 in 2010, top 2 in 2011, unprotected in 2012) (#6-Jonny Flynn / Johnny Flynn), conditional first round pick (2009 #28-Wayne Ellington), cash

Yes, they're wrong.

Seems a lot of sources have it wrong. The pick the Celtics sent to the T-Wolves was actually the 28th pick in the 2009 draft, which was used on Wayne Ellington. The 5th pick in the draft Minnesota got from Washington and the 6th pick was their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_nba_draft#endnote_Note2b

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_nba_draft
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!th
Post by: OsirusCeltics on February 18, 2013, 12:32:45 AM
never take my Captain away......

Cosign!
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: TripleOT on February 18, 2013, 01:15:19 AM
They got a 6th pick, and foolishly chose Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry.  Ellington at 28 was a decent pick. If Minny took Curry, as they should have, and stuck with Big Al and Ellington, their haul for KG would look better.     

The Twolves actually didn't get that pick from us.  The pick we traded back to them was lottery protected, and couldn't come to us until two years after the Twolves conveyed their 1st rounder to the Clips.

Long story short, that first rounder eventually became a second rounder.

If that's the case, http://www.prosportstransactions.com is wrong.  From that site, here's what they have Minny getting for KG:

Quote
Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, 2009 protected first round pick (top 3 in 2009, top 2 in 2010, top 2 in 2011, unprotected in 2012) (#6-Jonny Flynn / Johnny Flynn), conditional first round pick (2009 #28-Wayne Ellington), cash

Yes, they're wrong.

Seems a lot of sources have it wrong. The pick the Celtics sent to the T-Wolves was actually the 28th pick in the 2009 draft, which was used on Wayne Ellington. The 5th pick in the draft Minnesota got from Washington and the 6th pick was their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_nba_draft#endnote_Note2b

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_nba_draft

IIRC, part of the KG deal was that the Cs wouldn't take the pick at the Wolves owed them in the Wally trade.  That pick was the #6 pick that was used for Flynn. 
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: PaulPierce34G on February 18, 2013, 03:11:06 AM
All I will say is...

Pierce stuck with us throughout whole 9 yards....

KG put us back on the map...

Danny, don't trade them.

I know it is a business...but sometimes sentimentality has to outweigh the business....this is the case.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: indeedproceed on February 18, 2013, 03:20:43 AM
They got a 6th pick, and foolishly chose Jonny Flynn instead of Steph Curry.  Ellington at 28 was a decent pick. If Minny took Curry, as they should have, and stuck with Big Al and Ellington, their haul for KG would look better.     

The Twolves actually didn't get that pick from us.  The pick we traded back to them was lottery protected, and couldn't come to us until two years after the Twolves conveyed their 1st rounder to the Clips.

Long story short, that first rounder eventually became a second rounder.

If that's the case, http://www.prosportstransactions.com is wrong.  From that site, here's what they have Minny getting for KG:

Quote
Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, 2009 protected first round pick (top 3 in 2009, top 2 in 2010, top 2 in 2011, unprotected in 2012) (#6-Jonny Flynn / Johnny Flynn), conditional first round pick (2009 #28-Wayne Ellington), cash

Yes, they're wrong.

Seems a lot of sources have it wrong. The pick the Celtics sent to the T-Wolves was actually the 28th pick in the 2009 draft, which was used on Wayne Ellington. The 5th pick in the draft Minnesota got from Washington and the 6th pick was their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_nba_draft#endnote_Note2b

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_nba_draft

IIRC, part of the KG deal was that the Cs wouldn't take the pick at the Wolves owed them in the Wally trade.  That pick was the #6 pick that was used for Flynn.

It's all wrong, from a semantics point. The Celtics traded the rights to a protected 1st, Minny's own. That protection would've prohibited us from receiving it for the Flynn pick, but because it was traded, the first available pick made protections or no was assigned to it, because there was no further obligation (due to us trading it back to Minny).
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: Smutzy#9 on February 18, 2013, 04:34:30 AM
Your post clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge about what really caused us to be awful for years after Bird, McHale, and Parish retired.

Its not because we held them back, its because our management became worse than the current Bobcats management.

Picking antoine walker over Kobe and many other awful moves. If Pierce hadn't been drafted by us, we would have set the record for worst win/loss record long ago.

Plus, times were much different in the 80's than they are now. There is way too much talent in the league, compared to what it was at that time.

Moves like trading Joe Johnson for rent a players. Who we had for less then half a year that got us maybe one series closer.

Players have a trajectory.  i would rather have young ones on an upward slope now then aging ones on a downward.

Are people on this board insane?  Peirce does it 1 game in 5 at the most.  Garnett gets limited minutes and averages o.k numbers.


If the team was on the top then o.k. go with them, but there NOT!!!!!!!

People please stop holding onto sentiment.  Garnett can posture all he wants in a game, but in reality he is a mere contributor on a team with higher aspirations.

KG's per 36 is 18.2 9.2

He is almost a 20-10 player at 36...... gimme a break pal
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: dreamgreen on February 18, 2013, 09:13:48 AM
I like the rest of you really have no idea what offers are really on the table. For the right offer you trade all most anyone. In saying that I'm not sure what I would like Danny to do, but I do trust he will make the right decision.

My biggest problem with most posts I have seen over the past 2 weeks is this idea, that if we keep the team and let KG/PP retire, than we can build through cap space. I do not agree with this at all!

The NBA has the weirdest salary cap. We are over it because you can do that to sign your own players. So once those guys retire we are going to go back under the cap, hence we will only be able to spend up to the cap! To win you need great players, you have to pay those players, so good teams are over the cap.

The short of this is, it would take a long time to acquire players worth paying to get back up to the payroll we have now that keeps us competitive.

The Miami Heat plan is not going to happen here, for that matter I doubt ever again.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: tyrone biggums on February 18, 2013, 10:36:53 AM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

Okay now being serious...this was not the reason as to why the Celtics weren't good for a while. This whole blow it up mentality needs to stop, just because someone trades a 36 year old hall of famer for a young 22 year old guard doesn't mean that the guard will be very good. It seems like the only numbers we look at now is age. If having a young team is the best thing in sports then the Baby Bulls would have picked up right where MJ left off. Remember when Chandler and Curry were supposed to become the preeminent front court in the NBA? Never happened. You can't base trades off of age, or taking on bad contracts for the right to get draft picks. Just trade for Josh Smith and add to the core.

Edit: Sarcasm doesn't give you liscense to ignore the rules regarding how you treat other posters.
-Fafnir
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Peirce!!!!!
Post by: Q_FBE on February 18, 2013, 12:09:46 PM
Quote
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.

Not true.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis dying set us back a generation.  Terrible drafting and bad management coupled with terrible ownership set us back a generation.

It had nothing to do with not trading Larry and McHale for a bunch of decent / mediocre non-stars.

Roy is absolutely spot on with this analysis. Paul Ga$ton listened to ML Carr over Larry Bird for drafting and free agent decisions and we ended up with Antione Walker and Rick Pitino whose only good move was drafting Paul Pierce.

Here, I think we can hang onto Pierce and KG until their retirement (into coaching then front office) and build a new core around Rondo, Lee, Bradley, Jeff Green, and Jared Sullenger and perhaps Fab Melo.

I oppose trading KG and PP.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: tyrone biggums on February 18, 2013, 12:52:36 PM
I think far to many are to young on this board to remember how holding onto Bird, Parish, and Mchale set us back a generation.  I for one do not want to watch another 10 years of that again. Please, Danny do not make the same mistake.  He of anyone should know.  I have watched the preseason this year and a few early games.  Enough to see this is a 500 team, not going anywhere.  It's like watching the Pistons die again.

KG was a champ and so was Pierce.  Players who get older never get better.  Lottery teams take many moons to rebuild.


This moment is a golden opportunity for Boston.

I was of the idea Pierce should have gone two years ago.  I was very surprised last year by the run.  That was all because of youth stepping up.  Remember where we were headed before Bradley started to assert himself.




When I see that front page letter as an open Letter I scream NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny, please don't let it happen again.

Okay now being serious...this was not the reason as to why the Celtics weren't good for a while. This whole blow it up mentality needs to stop, just because someone trades a 36 year old hall of famer for a young 22 year old guard doesn't mean that the guard will be very good. It seems like the only numbers we look at now is age. If having a young team is the best thing in sports then the Baby Bulls would have picked up right where MJ left off. Remember when Chandler and Curry were supposed to become the preeminent front court in the NBA? Never happened. You can't base trades off of age, or taking on bad contracts for the right to get draft picks. Just trade for Josh Smith and add to the core.

Edit: Sarcasm doesn't give you liscense to ignore the rules regarding how you treat other posters.
-Fafnir

My bad, I felt the Billy Madison quote was appropriate...

Never the less I don't see how blowing it up would be a sure thing to return the C's to contention in 5 years.
Title: Re: We absolutely should trade KG and Pierce!!!!!
Post by: libermaniac on February 18, 2013, 01:18:06 PM
Quote
Picking antoine walker over Kobe and many other awful moves.

The same awful move that 12 other NBA teams made.  The Antoine Walker move was actually a VERY good move.  The Celtics actually traded the #9 pick, which ended up being Samaki Walker, and Eric Montross to the Mavs for the #6 pick, which ended up being Antoine, and the Mavs unprotected pick in the 1997 draft (the Tim Duncan draft).  They ended up not getting Duncan, but that pick netted then Ron Mercer.  This was actually one of the better deals the C's have made in the past 30 years, considering who they gave up.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/22/sports/sports-people-basketball-celtics-trade-montross-to-mavericks.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/22/sports/sports-people-basketball-celtics-trade-montross-to-mavericks.html)

Sure, in hindsight, if they had used that #6 pick to take Kobe, and the Dallas pick in 1997 ended up being Duncan that would've been the best trade in the history of the game, but hindsight is 20-20 foresight. Very good trade at the time.