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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Lightskinsmurf on February 16, 2013, 12:10:21 PM

Title: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 16, 2013, 12:10:21 PM
Rumor has it that the celtics are willing to trade green and bass for josh smith. Do you do it? I hesitated to say yes at first because I love green but you have to do this deal, right? Forget about if the hawks do it because we have no idea but would YOU do it?
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: ScottHow on February 16, 2013, 12:13:02 PM
Link?

And yeaaaaaaaaaa I'd do it
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 16, 2013, 12:14:04 PM
Link?

And yeaaaaaaaaaa I'd do it

http://www.celticslife.com/2013/02/celtics-salivating-over-josh-smith.html
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: rondohondo on February 16, 2013, 12:17:34 PM
Josh smith and d12 are best friends, what an intimidating front line that would be

Is this really gonna happen? :o
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: ScottHow on February 16, 2013, 12:20:03 PM
Why would atl want to take on that long term commitment for Bass and Green?
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 16, 2013, 12:22:06 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: rondohondo on February 16, 2013, 12:22:08 PM
Why would atl want to take on that long term commitment for Bass and Green?
its a starting point in negotiations .

Send lee to memphis for their trade exception and flip it with green to atlanta
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: ScottHow on February 16, 2013, 12:22:38 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.

Why?
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: esel1000 on February 16, 2013, 12:23:09 PM
Why would atl want to take on that long term commitment for Bass and Green?

I only see them doing that if Smith forces his way here (i.e kills trade value by threatening to walk during the summer from any team not named the celts)
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 16, 2013, 12:28:40 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.

Why?

Smith will prove to be too pricey for what he brings, and would kill our rebuilding efforts when the time comes. And this year, he won't add much to our roster considering the subtraction Green.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: TAllen on February 16, 2013, 12:30:12 PM
Josh smith and d12 are best friends, what an intimidating front line that would be

Is this really gonna happen? :o

It certainly would be awesome but its WAYYY to good to be true.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 16, 2013, 12:32:03 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.

Why?

Smith will prove to be too pricey for what he brings, and would kill our rebuilding efforts when the time comes. And this year, he won't add much to our roster considering the subtraction Green.

Oh man, besides the price point you are so off base here lol.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: ScottHow on February 16, 2013, 12:32:26 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.

Why?

Smith will prove to be too pricey for what he brings, and would kill our rebuilding efforts when the time comes. And this year, he won't add much to our roster considering the subtraction Green.

Green has played well lately but IMO Smith would upgrade our team
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Evantime34 on February 16, 2013, 12:40:34 PM
I'm sure that we would deal Green and Bass for Smith but I don't see any way Atlanta would do this. Kills their cap space and saddles them with the types of long term contracts Ferry moved to start his tenure.

Maybe if another team had an interest in Green or Bass to bring in young players and help facilitate a deal.

Does a KG, Smith, Pierce, Lee and Bradley team compete for a title this year?
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 16, 2013, 12:41:23 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.

Why?

Smith will prove to be too pricey for what he brings, and would kill our rebuilding efforts when the time comes. And this year, he won't add much to our roster considering the subtraction Green.

Green has played well lately but IMO Smith would upgrade our team

Yeah I'm in no way crapping on green. I love green but um green and bass for smith? That's a borderline no brainer.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 16, 2013, 12:42:34 PM
I'm sure that we would deal Green and Bass for Smith but I don't see any way Atlanta would do this. Kills their cap space and saddles them with the types of long term contracts Ferry moved to start his tenure.

Maybe if another team had an interest in Green or Bass to bring in young players and help facilitate a deal.

Does a KG, Smith, Pierce, Lee and Bradley team compete for a title this year?

Absolutely
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 16, 2013, 12:43:14 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.

Why?

Smith will prove to be too pricey for what he brings, and would kill our rebuilding efforts when the time comes. And this year, he won't add much to our roster considering the subtraction Green.

Green has played well lately but IMO Smith would upgrade our team

Leaves too big of a whole in our SF rotation, and though Smith can play the position, he'd rarely be in a position to play it... and I'd rather keep him as a 4 personally.

I just see a very unbalanced roster if this were to happen, particularly with the way Green has played defense this year, particularly on guys like Carmelo and LeBron.

You're losing a lot of floor spacing too.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Evantime34 on February 16, 2013, 12:50:24 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.

Why?

Smith will prove to be too pricey for what he brings, and would kill our rebuilding efforts when the time comes. And this year, he won't add much to our roster considering the subtraction Green.

Green has played well lately but IMO Smith would upgrade our team

Leaves too big of a whole in our SF rotation, and though Smith can play the position, he'd rarely be in a position to play it... and I'd rather keep him as a 4 personally.

I just see a very unbalanced roster if this were to happen, particularly with the way Green has played defense this year, particularly on guys like Carmelo and LeBron.

You're losing a lot of floor spacing too.
Maybe in the short term but long term I'd much rather have Smith than Green and Bass.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 16, 2013, 12:54:45 PM
I'd rather keep Bass and Green.

Why?

Smith will prove to be too pricey for what he brings, and would kill our rebuilding efforts when the time comes. And this year, he won't add much to our roster considering the subtraction Green.

Green has played well lately but IMO Smith would upgrade our team

Leaves too big of a whole in our SF rotation, and though Smith can play the position, he'd rarely be in a position to play it... and I'd rather keep him as a 4 personally.

I just see a very unbalanced roster if this were to happen, particularly with the way Green has played defense this year, particularly on guys like Carmelo and LeBron.

You're losing a lot of floor spacing too.
Maybe in the short term but long term I'd much rather have Smith than Green and Bass.

Bass shouldn't be here long term. Green vs. Smith, when you're playing the cap room, I'm leaning towards Green.

Unless Smith takes a huge pay cut from what has been speculated to be his asking price of MAX contract.

But, if Ainge manages to keep adding talent, without having to resort into playing the cap room game, then Smith is the choice I'd say.

At the moment, not envisioning how it could go about.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: cman88 on February 16, 2013, 01:18:02 PM
to me, its simple...if Smith wants to take a discount to play for the Celtics on his next contract I will take him.

but in NO WAY do I want to pay him Max money....his talent just doesnt dictate it.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: SparzWizard on February 16, 2013, 01:23:10 PM
Bass and Green for Josh Smith? I'll do it in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: BringToughnessBack on February 16, 2013, 01:30:28 PM
I cant seem giving Smith a max contract. Now, if he would accept something more like 10M per at the most, I think you have to pull the trigger but I would hate to see J. Green go. I think he is only going to get better and we have not yet seen his ceiling. Bass is another story, I think he is lost this year on our team.

On a different note, I am not a big fan of building a team of poor free throw shooters either. In the playoffs, it can lead to your doom. Doc would be subsituting at the end of each game on every possession.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Cman on February 16, 2013, 01:37:43 PM
Bass and Green for Josh Smith? I'll do it in a heartbeat.
Yeah. It is a no brainer for the Cs. Atlanta would not do it though. Contracts are too long.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: kozlodoev on February 16, 2013, 01:50:24 PM
Bass and Green for Josh Smith? I'll do it in a heartbeat.
Yeah. It is a no brainer for the Cs. Atlanta would not do it though. Contracts are too long.
Interestingly enough,  people gripe about Jeff Green's contract being too rich, but would gladly have Smith who is only marginally better, makes 6 million more right now, and demands a max contract.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Geo123 on February 16, 2013, 01:51:35 PM
I still believe that the Rockets are Smith's most likely destination.  They have the assets to make a deal pretty easily... 
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: More Banners on February 16, 2013, 01:52:22 PM
Bass and Green for Josh Smith? I'll do it in a heartbeat.
Yeah. It is a no brainer for the Cs. Atlanta would not do it though. Contracts are too long.

Not sure I like it.

Not as huge fan of JSmith, I guess.  No shooting, no post, not worth it.

Green as a power-3 > near-max contract Smith

There's a reason the Hawks have talent and don't win.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 16, 2013, 01:52:48 PM
Definitely no way
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: More Banners on February 16, 2013, 01:57:10 PM
I'm sure that we would deal Green and Bass for Smith but I don't see any way Atlanta would do this. Kills their cap space and saddles them with the types of long term contracts Ferry moved to start his tenure.

Maybe if another team had an interest in Green or Bass to bring in young players and help facilitate a deal.

Does a KG, Smith, Pierce, Lee and Bradley team compete for a title this year?

Absolutely

Yeah, they'd win every game by 20 points.

Final score:  64-44
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: whiteandgreen25 on February 16, 2013, 02:36:52 PM
Not from a win this season standpoint
But from a rebuilding/rebooting standpoint:

Keep Green
See what assets we can have sent to ATL in a 3-team trade with Pierce, and include any of Bass/Lee/Terry/Pick from us

Already gives us a core of Bradley/Green/Smith
Trade KG for Bledsoe/Jordan
Trade Rondo or Bledsoe in the summer

Leaves us 1-2 pieces from being a young competitive team, and well coached a Green/Smith combo should be deadly on both ends of the floor.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 16, 2013, 02:43:01 PM
Well I was all set to say the following...   Jeff Green is our 4th best player, but he's a SF.  He's not a PF.  And unfortunately our 2nd best player, Paul Pierce, plays SF too.   Meanwhile we have a 3rd stringer starting at PF.  So in theory, yes it makes sense to move Jeff Green for Josh Smith... it would give you a lineup of PG - Bradley, SG - Lee, SF - Pierce, PF - Josh SMith, C - KG

Not to mention, Josh Smith is just a far better player than Jeff Green. 

But I just realized that Josh Smith is actually smaller than Jeff Green.  That was surprising to me.  Smith is 6'9 225 and Jeff Green is 6'9 235.  You'd still have to trade Green for Smith, because Smith is a superior player... but it doesn't really help the theory that Jeff Green can't play PF.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on February 16, 2013, 02:45:40 PM
Bass and Green for Josh Smith? I'll do it in a heartbeat.

TP for speaking the truth. Seems like a no brainer plus a cheap FA pf to replace bass.

The discussion for a max deal is interesting. I'd have to a gree a max contract isn't worth it but the days of dominance are dwindling and we may see this team with rondo and company struggling to hit .500 with no stars.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 16, 2013, 02:48:38 PM
Bass and Green for Josh Smith? I'll do it in a heartbeat.

TP for speaking the truth. Seems like a no brainer plus a cheap FA pf to replace bass.

The discussion for a max deal is interesting. I'd have to a gree a max contract isn't worth it but the days of dominance are dwindling and we may see this team with rondo and company struggling to hit .500 with no stars.

Rondo is a star -.-
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: dreamgreen on February 16, 2013, 05:53:23 PM
Call me crazy but I'd rather move PP (one of my favorite players) instead of Green.

A young core of Rondo/Green/Smith is a good starting point, find some shooters and fill ins, we can build with this and compete this year and next with KG.

Green for $9 mill with what I think he can do, is a good contract, Smith can not get max but I doubt he will ask that.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: More Banners on February 16, 2013, 06:07:40 PM
Call me crazy but I'd rather move PP (one of my favorite players) instead of Green.

A young core of Rondo/Green/Smith is a good starting point, find some shooters and fill ins, we can build with this and compete this year and next with KG.

Green for $9 mill with what I think he can do, is a good contract, Smith can not get max but I doubt he will ask that.

In that lineup (Rondo, Green, Smith), who spreads the floor?

Smith can't shoot beyond 10ft, Rondo 15.  Green is average/keep you honest.

Who takes the final shot, Jeff Green?

Jeff Green, go-to scorer?

Not Josh Smith, though, right?

See, that's the thing.  They're all #2-3 options, all of them:  Rondo, Green, Smith-all of them, and their skills don't really mesh that well.

Think back:  Ray, Paul, and KG could all shoot very, very well.  So could Posey and House.  THAT was one of their biggest advantages-the floor was pretty open.

We still have the Rondo problem:  the other guys need to be shooters.  Smith isn't one.

No to Rondo + Smith

Yes to Jeff Green
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: dark_lord on February 16, 2013, 06:16:28 PM
money/contracts aside, and solely based on game/ability, i do this deal in a heartbeat. 
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: OnPoint on February 16, 2013, 06:26:03 PM
This deal makes no sense for ATL unless we include prospects and picks because of the amount of salary they are gaining and loss of fringe all-star talent.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: GreenEnvy on February 16, 2013, 06:50:55 PM
Some on here want to make a deal just for the sake of it. People are acting like Josh Smith is a perennial all-star and future hall-of-famer. He's not. He's an athlete with a pretty low offensive IQ.

I would not trade Green for him. I've seen Green have highlight worthy dunks and blocks just like Smith, plus he can actually shoot and doesn't force FGA from all over the court.

I'm not gonna say Green is a "better" player, but he will definitely be a much better value at $9M than whatever Smith signs for. He is probably more talented already, younger, more potential, better pedigree, etc.

Thanks but no thanks.

I would probably do Bass+Melo+pick though.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on February 16, 2013, 07:00:49 PM
Finally a trade i agree with Josh smith for bass and green...now that is a good idea...keep rondo....you got the present, and the future....get sully back..a solid inside rebounder, bradley.....you got a team with a present and a future...! MeadowLark_Scal approves this message...!
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Vermont Green on February 16, 2013, 07:04:00 PM
Some on here want to make a deal just for the sake of it. People are acting like Josh Smith is a perennial all-star and future hall-of-famer. He's not. He's an athlete with a pretty low offensive IQ.

I would not trade Green for him. I've seen Green have highlight worthy dunks and blocks just like Smith, plus he can actually shoot and doesn't force FGA from all over the court.

I'm not gonna say Green is a "better" player, but he will definitely be a much better value at $9M than whatever Smith signs for. He is probably more talented already, younger, more potential, better pedigree, etc.

Thanks but no thanks.

I would probably do Bass+Melo+pick though.
I agree with the assessment of Green and Smith.  We do not want to blow our Max contract on Josh Smith or in my opinion, Dwight Howard.  Plus, right now, we can't afford to send out 2 or 3 players and get 1 back.  We just don't have enough bodies, that is why the KG for Jordan and Bledsoe deal seems like it would be more likely.  I am not crazy about paying Jordan around $12 though.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on February 16, 2013, 07:42:35 PM
Bass and Green for Josh Smith? I'll do it in a heartbeat.

TP for speaking the truth. Seems like a no brainer plus a cheap FA pf to replace bass.

The discussion for a max deal is interesting. I'd have to a gree a max contract isn't worth it but the days of dominance are dwindling and we may see this team with rondo and company struggling to hit .500 with no stars.

Rondo is a star -.-

I agree ( as i wear his jersey) but if a line up with rondo, bradley, green, Sully, Random C (not howard) where is the Paul Pierce or KG or even a (sigh) ray allen to step up in the 4th and hit from every spot on the floor? Don't get me wrong I LOVE rondo but he can't be surrounded by the above cast and expect to win most games
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 16, 2013, 07:45:41 PM
Finally a trade i agree with Josh smith for bass and green...now that is a good idea...keep rondo....you got the present, and the future....get sully back..a solid inside rebounder, bradley.....you got a team with a present and a future...! MeadowLark_Scal approves this message...!

I second it!
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 16, 2013, 07:46:19 PM
You're giving away the future with Green if this goes through.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: yagru on February 17, 2013, 03:01:28 AM
one thing i have noticed about this forum is that people vastly over rate josh smith. I watch a ton of games on league pass and i dont understand what people are fawning over. Sometimes I think people just look at the stat sheets. I just dont get it.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Eddie20 on February 17, 2013, 05:17:42 AM
Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
Still many involved for Atlanta's Josh Smith, including Bucks, Nets, Celtics, 76ers, Wizards, others, sources say. Strong belief he's moved.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 17, 2013, 05:35:33 AM
one thing i have noticed about this forum is that people vastly over rate josh smith. I watch a ton of games on league pass and i dont understand what people are fawning over. Sometimes I think people just look at the stat sheets. I just dont get it.

Much like many Celtics fans do with Rondo - just look at the stat sheets?

Here are Smith's regular season averages (per 36 Min) for his career:

16.0 Pts
8.4 Reb
3.4 Ass
1.4 Stl
2.2 Blk
46% FG
29% 3PT
66% FT
2.6 TO

Now none of those individual stats might really jump out at you, but look at his current season stats collectively and you will see that he is currently the only player in the league who is averaging at least: 

* 17 PPG
* 8 RPG
* 4 APG
* 1 SPG
* 2 BPK
* 45% FG

You might say I've swayed the stats in his favour to produce these results, so I'll entertain that idea.  If you reduce the weighting of the defensive stats so that it includes everyone who averages at least 0.5 blocks and 0.5 steals (17/8/4/0.5/0.5/45%) the list now expands to include:

* Lebron James

Yes, the best player in the world.  But lets make it easier for the smaller guys and bring down the rebound average down by one point (17/7/4/0.5/0.5/45%).  Now the list grows to include one more player: 

* Kevin Durant

Yep, probably the second best player in the world.  Bring the assist average down by one (17/7/3/0.5/0.5/45%) and the list increases to also include:

* Blake Griffin

Now i'll bring the scoring down by two (15/7/3/0.5/0.5/45%) and the list increased to include:

* Greg Monroe
* Al Hortford

So even if you cut this down to all the players who average at least 15 points, 7 rebounds and 3 assists, 0.5 blocks, 0.5 steals and 45% FG you have a total list as follows:

* Josh Smith
* Lebron James
* Kevin Durant
* Blake Griffin
* Greg Monroe
* Al Hortford

I don't care what anyone says, that's pretty impressive company right there, and how far did I need to move on the stats just to open that list up to 6 people??

It's very easy to see why Josh Smith is one of the better 'swiss army knife' type players in the league.  In the right system he has the potential to one day be a 20/10/5 player...to achieve this he would only need an extra 3 points, 1.5 rebounds and 1 assist per game.

He might not be a superstar scorer, but there are no other frontcourt players in the league bar maybe Lebron and Durant who can impact a game in so many ways on a nightly basis.

The problem with this is that we already have a 'swiss army knife' type player in Rondo.  Having two stars on the team makes little sense to me if neither of those guys has 'scoring' as their primary talent.  It makes sense right now when we have Pierce and KG on the team, but it lead to us being a horrific offensive team once those guys retire (even worse than we are now!). 

I think either of those guys (Rondo / Smith) is a very valuable player, but they need to be in the right situation to give a team the most benefit.

Rondo IMHO needs to be on a team full of shooters, like New York or Orlando.  He needs the ball in his hands a LOT so he needs guys around him who can catch and shoot quickly.  When he has guys around him who need to put the ball on the floor to be effective (Terry, Green, Lee) he's not very effective, because he takes so much time off the clock that once those guys get the ball they only have time to take a jump shot...and aside from Terry neither of those guys are great catch and shoot players.

Smith can pretty much fit on any team so long as he doesn't need to be a number one scoring option.  If Josh Smith is your number one scoring option it puts pressure on him to put up a lot of shots (rather than just getting his points in the flow of the offense), and when he's in that role he's going to start jacking up bad shots (as he often does now).  If he doesn't need to take on that responsibilty then he's great for any team, because any team in the league wants a long, athletic guy that rebounds, scores, passes well and can defend any position on the court.   

If you look at the current makeup of our team, Smith fits us better than Rondo does because:

1. We do not have a lot of good spot up shooters
2. Smith could be a #3 scorer behind Pierce and KG

If you look at our team once Pierce and KG retire, neither player fits us because:

1. We do not have a lot of good spot up shooters
2. Either Smith or Green will become our #1 scoring option

The thing is, in order to make Smith fit our team we would only really need to make one move - bring in a top calibre scorer (a Monta Ellis / James Harden type) and Smith could then settle in to a "Pippen" like role as the secondary star.

In order to make Rondo work though, we would need to change our entire roster - either trade away all of our current players (bar Terry) for more pure shooters, or try to force our current players to become pure shooters.  Neither option is convenient for us, and neither of those is something I would want to go through just for the sake of suiting one player.

Anywhoo moving away from that point (the name "Rondo" seems to bring instant flames here) I think we can afford to have either one of Rondo / Smith on our team, but I don't think the two of them fit all that well together from a team perspective. 
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: steve on February 17, 2013, 05:54:59 AM
one thing i have noticed about this forum is that people vastly over rate josh smith. I watch a ton of games on league pass and i dont understand what people are fawning over. Sometimes I think people just look at the stat sheets. I just dont get it.

Much like many Celtics fans do with Rondo - just look at the stat sheets?

Here are Smith's regular season averages (per 36 Min) for his career:

16.0 Pts
8.4 Reb
3.4 Ass
1.4 Stl
2.2 Blk
46% FG
29% 3PT
66% FT
2.6 TO

Looking at his stats this season, he is actually the only player in the NBA who is averaging at least:

* 17 PPG
* 8 RPG
* 4 APG
* 1 SPG
* 2 BPK

If you remove the blocks and steals, there are only two players in the league averaging at least 17 PPG, 8 RPG and 4 APG, and they are:

* Josh Smith
* Lebron James

Even if I bring the rebound average down by one point (17/7/4) and the list expands to also include:

* Kevin Durant
* Paul George

Bring the assist average dow by one (17/7/3) and the list increases to also include:

* David Lee
* Blake Griffin

You are still looking at some pretty impressive company there.

The only bad stat for Smith is turnovers (at 3 per game) but if you look at the turnover numbers for the othe guys on that list, they aren't much better:

* Lebron - 3.0
* Durant - 3.2
* George - 2.8
* Griffin - 2.7
* Lee - 2.4

It's very easy to see why Josh Smith is one of the better 'swiss army knife' type players in the league, and in the right system he certainly has the potential to be a 20/10/5 player...to achieve this he would need an extra 3 points, 1.5 rebounds and 1 assist per game so very achievable...and I believe only something like 9 players have done tht in NBA history (KG being one of them).

He might not be a superstar scorer, but there are is nobody in the league bar maybe Lebron, Durant and Rondo who can impact a game in so many ways on a nightly basis.

I would love to hear a rebuttle to this post? 

Hard to argue with numbers
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: chambers on February 17, 2013, 06:11:28 AM
I would rather give up Sully, Bass and Lee for Smith.
Money works, and the Hawks get two nice chips in Bass and Lee, and a great young stud in Sully. Throw in a pick or Melo if we must.

We need Green AND Smith to compete with Miami and OKC in my opinion.

Imagine the Heat trying to guard Pierce, Green and Smith...it would be a match up nightmare for every team-particularly with KG stretching the floor
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Birdman on February 17, 2013, 06:29:51 AM
Yeah i think Atlanta would do a Sully, Bass, and Lee trade than a Green and Bass. I would to if I was the C's.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 17, 2013, 06:33:17 AM
I would rather give up Sully, Bass and Lee for Smith.
Money works, and the Hawks get two nice chips in Bass and Lee, and a great young stud in Sully. Throw in a pick or Melo if we must.

We need Green AND Smith to compete with Miami and OKC in my opinion.

Imagine the Heat trying to guard Pierce, Green and Smith...it would be a match up nightmare for every team-particularly with KG stretching the floor

Looking at that deal from Atlanta's perspective:

* Lee is nice defensively, but has been very inconsistent offensively.  He is currently on a long term contract and doesn't seem to have much potential beyond what you see now. 

* Bass is a pure jumpshooter who OCCASIONALLY rebounds decently and plays some decent defense - but rarely.  He has very bad hands and low basketball IQ, but he plays hard.  He is currently on a long term contract and doesn't seem to have much potential beyond what you see now.

* Sullinger is a talented young rookie who looks to have a lot of upside, but he was passed on in the draft (despite his obvious talents) due to concerns over his back. He's currently out for the season getting back surgery - his back issue is no longer a rumour and is now a proven concern, and there is no way for other teams to know whether he will recover from it well or not.

So you are asking Atlanta to give up a highly talented young stud (who is also highly valued by about 6-8 teams right now) in return for two borderline starters with little potential (and little trade value, and long term contracts), and a young guy with a bad back.

You really think they will take that?

There is no point at all in trading Sully.  He's never averaged more than 6/6 in the NBA (so his potential is possible, but not certain), he has a history of back issues, and he is out for the season.  Nobody is going to give up anything of value for a guy when they have no certainty if he will ever get healthy, and no certaintly on whether he will ever become a starting calibre player post-injury.  He is far more valuable to us because we already have him, so we aren't taking any risk by keeping him and evaluating him next season.

Bass has very little trade value (outside of simply to match salaries) unless it's for a team that desperately needs a PF with a good midrange game, or a solid backup PF with a good work ethic.  Teams that need such niche (and relatively minor) things are unlikely to give up anything of huge value in return.

DA reportedly tried trading Lee earlier in the season in return for Demarcus Cousins, and apparently was turned down because they wanted AB instead.  Lee is a support player who is athletic, plays good defense and can occasioanally score (probably not more than 10-13 points per 36 minutes).  He's the type of guy a lot of teams would like to add to their rosters, but he's still a role player...and nobody would give up more than a role player in return.

The only guys on our team who have any real trade value are:

1. Rondo - even injured, he could still net a good return
2. Pierce - a contender would offer a decent (not great)  return
3. KG - as with Pierce
4. Terry - as with Pierce and KG
5. AB - would net nice talent in return
6. Green - his play lately may raise an eyebrow or two

If we want to do any deal that will bring back an asset of any value, one of those guys would need to go out.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: chambers on February 17, 2013, 06:45:51 AM
I would rather give up Sully, Bass and Lee for Smith.
Money works, and the Hawks get two nice chips in Bass and Lee, and a great young stud in Sully. Throw in a pick or Melo if we must.

We need Green AND Smith to compete with Miami and OKC in my opinion.

Imagine the Heat trying to guard Pierce, Green and Smith...it would be a match up nightmare for every team-particularly with KG stretching the floor

Looking at that deal from Atlanta's perspective:

* Lee is nice defensively, but has been very inconsistent offensively.  He is currently on a long term contract and doesn't seem to have much potential beyond what you see now. 

* Bass is a pure jumpshooter who OCCASIONALLY rebounds decently and plays some decent defense - but rarely.  He has very bad hands and low basketball IQ, but he plays hard.  He is currently on a long term contract and doesn't seem to have much potential beyond what you see now.

* Sullinger is a talented young rookie who looks to have a lot of upside, but he was passed on in the draft (despite his obvious talents) due to concerns over his back. He's currently out for the season getting back surgery - his back issue is no longer a rumour and is now a proven concern, and there is no way for other teams to know whether he will recover from it well or not.

So you are asking Atlanta to give up a highly talented young stud (who is also highly valued by about 6-8 teams right now) in return for two borderline starters with little potential (and little trade value, and long term contracts), and a young guy with a bad back.

You really think they will take that?

It's not what they want, it's what teams will give them and that the Celtics are one of the only teams that Smith would agree to a sign and trade with.
He ain't interested in the Bucks or Bobcats. He wants to play with Rondo and KG.
Sully is still potentially a great player. Lee and Bass are good trade chips down the line for Ferry to use to acquire some first round picks. He can play them as starters and boost their stats for a season if need be, or keep them as cheap, reliable veterans on a young squad. I mean he's got two Celtics starters for 10 million which is pretty good and he's got Melo and or a pick.
Pretty good haul to me for a guy that's walking in a few months.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Birdman on February 17, 2013, 06:46:12 AM
Smith isnt going to resign with Atlanta so they better trade him and get something rather than nothing
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: henr1k on February 17, 2013, 06:50:03 AM
It has been reported that Hawks would like a center back if they traded Smith, to pair him with Horford.
Combining rumors, something like this could make sense if Danny actually decided to trade KG.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=d6pxwvg (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=d6pxwvg)

Boston In:

Josh Smith
Eric Bledsoe
Anthony Tolliver

Boston Out:

Kevin Garnett
Fab Melo
Leandro Barbosa

Atlanta In:

DeAndre Jordan
Fab Melo
Leandro Barbosa

Atlanta Out:

Josh Smith
Anthony Tolliver

Clippers In:

Kevin Garnett

Clippers Out:

Eric Bledsoe
DeAndre Jordan
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 17, 2013, 06:55:56 AM
I would rather give up Sully, Bass and Lee for Smith.
Money works, and the Hawks get two nice chips in Bass and Lee, and a great young stud in Sully. Throw in a pick or Melo if we must.

We need Green AND Smith to compete with Miami and OKC in my opinion.

Imagine the Heat trying to guard Pierce, Green and Smith...it would be a match up nightmare for every team-particularly with KG stretching the floor

Looking at that deal from Atlanta's perspective:

* Lee is nice defensively, but has been very inconsistent offensively.  He is currently on a long term contract and doesn't seem to have much potential beyond what you see now. 

* Bass is a pure jumpshooter who OCCASIONALLY rebounds decently and plays some decent defense - but rarely.  He has very bad hands and low basketball IQ, but he plays hard.  He is currently on a long term contract and doesn't seem to have much potential beyond what you see now.

* Sullinger is a talented young rookie who looks to have a lot of upside, but he was passed on in the draft (despite his obvious talents) due to concerns over his back. He's currently out for the season getting back surgery - his back issue is no longer a rumour and is now a proven concern, and there is no way for other teams to know whether he will recover from it well or not.

So you are asking Atlanta to give up a highly talented young stud (who is also highly valued by about 6-8 teams right now) in return for two borderline starters with little potential (and little trade value, and long term contracts), and a young guy with a bad back.

You really think they will take that?

It's not what they want, it's what teams will give them and that the Celtics are one of the only teams that Smith would agree to a sign and trade with.
He ain't interested in the Bucks or Bobcats. He wants to play with Rondo and KG.
Sully is still potentially a great player. Lee and Bass are good trade chips down the line for Ferry to use to acquire some first round picks. He can play them as starters and boost their stats for a season if need be, or keep them as cheap, reliable veterans on a young squad. I mean he's got two Celtics starters for 10 million which is pretty good and he's got Melo and or a pick.
Pretty good haul to me for a guy that's walking in a few months.

Howard wanted to go to NJ and said it was the only team he'd re-sign with, but the Magic sent him to the Lakers, against his will.

This is a business, teams will do what ever gets them the best return - if they feel they cannot get anything decent in return, they may well keep him and try to get him to re-sign (we won't have the cap space to sign him postseason). 

Agreed he doesn't want to go to the bobcats, but the Nets? Maybe he would accept that.  Chris Humphries is a more attractive piece than anyone in that Lee/Bass/Sully deal, and NJ are stacked with depth so they have plenty of guys they could throw in (such as Blatche, who is on a min contract and would be a nice sweetener). 

A combination of Bass + Hortford makes Atlanta a very small team up front, and Atlanta stands to give up about 7 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block and 1 steal per game if they replace Josh with Bass.

Humphries on the other hand gives them a potential 12/10 guy who can (along with Hortford) can give them a dominant rebounding front line, and who can score probably at least as well as Bass.

Lee gives them a guy who is somewhere between a mediocre starter and a solid bench player.  Not sure he's THAT valueable to Atlanta.

Sully once again has very little value right now until teams know more about his back.  He'd be much more valuable as a trade asset once he comes back from surgery - if he still plays effectively and shows no back issues, he will be strongly desired...but until then he's a big risk for a playoff team like Atlanta that would probably rather have an asset that helps them right now, rather than one that MIGHT (or might not) help them next year. 

From our perspective, giving up Sully and Bass (even if Atl does agree to the deal) leaves us with only Wilcox as a true backup PF - a guy who has historically been injury prone.  Green can backup both SF and PF, but how effectively (in the long term) we still don't know. 
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 17, 2013, 07:02:06 AM
It has been reported that Hawks would like a center back if they traded Smith, to pair him with Horford.
Combining rumors, something like this could make sense if Danny actually decided to trade KG.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=d6pxwvg (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=d6pxwvg)

Boston In:

Josh Smith
Eric Bledsoe
Anthony Tolliver

Boston Out:

Kevin Garnett
Fab Melo
Leandro Barbosa

Atlanta In:

DeAndre Jordan
Fab Melo
Leandro Barbosa

Atlanta Out:

Josh Smith
Anthony Tolliver

Clippers In:

Kevin Garnett

Clippers Out:

Eric Bledsoe
DeAndre Jordan

If we have to trade KG out it makes a lot of sense to get Josh Smith in return  - he's a good rebounder and a versatile defender who is athletic enough to defend the pick and roll, but also a capable shot blocker who can defend the basket. He's also averating 17 PPG which (per minute) is pretty much dead on what KG is averaging right now, so we don't really lose anything in terms of scoring production.  Like KG he's also a very good passer for a big.

The problem is that KG is a 7 footer and can play center effectively, while Josh Smith (at 6'9") really only has the size to be a PF.  If we make this deal who starts at center - Wilcox, Collins? 

Wilcox doesn't seem to have the fitness right now to play starters minutes, and his injury history makes him a big risk.  Collins clearly is not a starting calibre center.  Neither Green nor Smith can really play center. We're pretty much screwed at center with this deal, but it helps us for the future. 
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: henr1k on February 17, 2013, 07:19:46 AM
@crimson_stallion: Yes, you are right. There would obviously have to be another trade following this one to bring back a starting caliber center. It's easier to say that do though.

Pipe dream would obviously be Rondo for Howard but that seems highly unlikely.

Edit: But my point was that this makes sense for Hawks. They aren't trading Smith for Bass or Green's contract.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: The Rondo Show on February 17, 2013, 04:23:43 PM
Trading Green in a deal for J Smoove totally defeats the purpose of the trade IMO
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: kozlodoev on February 17, 2013, 04:27:36 PM
1. Rondo - even injured, he could still net a good return
2. Pierce - a contender would offer a decent (not great)  return
3. KG - as with Pierce
4. Terry - as with Pierce and KG
5. AB - would net nice talent in return
6. Green - his play lately may raise an eyebrow or two
I think Celtics fans are seriously overvaluing Avery Bradley.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 17, 2013, 04:46:35 PM
1. Rondo - even injured, he could still net a good return
2. Pierce - a contender would offer a decent (not great)  return
3. KG - as with Pierce
4. Terry - as with Pierce and KG
5. AB - would net nice talent in return
6. Green - his play lately may raise an eyebrow or two
I think Celtics fans are seriously overvaluing Avery Bradley.

Lets not start this again..
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: Smokeeye123 on February 17, 2013, 05:04:26 PM
If we did this we'd have to be making another trade for some extra bodies...
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: jdz101 on February 17, 2013, 05:27:25 PM
I would continue to lowball them until the serious trade contenders show themselves.

Noone seems to want to give up a heap for this guy. Especially with the impression that he's leaving the hawks for free at the end of the year.

The hawks will get nervous on deadline day and if danny puts a lowball offer out there, they may just bite. If someone overpays for smith then let them do that.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: FallGuy on February 17, 2013, 06:01:31 PM
Ainge would make this deal without a second thought. Bass + Green aren't enough for Smith but divesting ourselves of two egregious contracts is a great move. It also ups the talent level at the top of the rotation, which is the only thing Boston can do to make a run this year. And it means we get rid of two bad rebounders who completely compromise Pierce and KG's efforts on the boards.

If this rumor was floating around a month ago, I can't imagine what C's observer would turn it down. It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 17, 2013, 06:03:02 PM
Ainge would make this deal without a second thought. Bass + Green aren't enough for Smith but divesting ourselves of two egregious contracts is a great move. It also ups the talent level at the top of the rotation, which is the only thing Boston can do to make a run this year. And it means we get rid of two bad rebounders who completely compromise Pierce and KG's efforts on the boards.

If this rumor was floating around a month ago, I can't imagine what C's observer would turn it down. It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.

ONE egregious contract and one OK one
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: kozlodoev on February 17, 2013, 06:05:12 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on February 17, 2013, 06:06:26 PM
one thing i have noticed about this forum is that people vastly over rate josh smith. I watch a ton of games on league pass and i dont understand what people are fawning over. Sometimes I think people just look at the stat sheets. I just dont get it.

Much like many Celtics fans do with Rondo - just look at the stat sheets?

Here are Smith's regular season averages (per 36 Min) for his career:

16.0 Pts
8.4 Reb
3.4 Ass
1.4 Stl
2.2 Blk
46% FG
29% 3PT
66% FT
2.6 TO

Looking at his stats this season, he is actually the only player in the NBA who is averaging at least:

* 17 PPG
* 8 RPG
* 4 APG
* 1 SPG
* 2 BPK

If you remove the blocks and steals, there are only two players in the league averaging at least 17 PPG, 8 RPG and 4 APG, and they are:

* Josh Smith
* Lebron James

Even if I bring the rebound average down by one point (17/7/4) and the list expands to also include:

* Kevin Durant
* Paul George

Bring the assist average dow by one (17/7/3) and the list increases to also include:

* David Lee
* Blake Griffin

You are still looking at some pretty impressive company there.

The only bad stat for Smith is turnovers (at 3 per game) but if you look at the turnover numbers for the othe guys on that list, they aren't much better:

* Lebron - 3.0
* Durant - 3.2
* George - 2.8
* Griffin - 2.7
* Lee - 2.4

It's very easy to see why Josh Smith is one of the better 'swiss army knife' type players in the league, and in the right system he certainly has the potential to be a 20/10/5 player...to achieve this he would need an extra 3 points, 1.5 rebounds and 1 assist per game so very achievable...and I believe only something like 9 players have done tht in NBA history (KG being one of them).

He might not be a superstar scorer, but there are is nobody in the league bar maybe Lebron, Durant and Rondo who can impact a game in so many ways on a nightly basis.

I would love to hear a rebuttle to this post? 

Hard to argue with numbers

I'll give it a try.  ;D

You mentioned numbers, so let's look at a few that the OP gave but didn't focus on:

29% 3FG: Anyone who shoots only 29% from three-point range shouldn't be shooting threes. Period. Yet Smith does, and it's a part of his larger problem of bad shot selection. The guy basically has idea, after all these years in the league, what's a good shot and what isn't.

66% FT: Terrible. No reason for any player to shoot this low a percentage on free throws. Some CBers are pining for a new big three of Rondo-Smith-Howard ... do they not realize how awful a situation that would create? Opposing defenses could just pack the paint and/or keep sending these three to the foul line.

Listen, I agree that Smith has a lot of talent, but he also has some glaring flaws, and no player exists in a vacuum—you have to consider how that player would fit with the rest of the team, and a Rondo-Smith-Howard triumvirate would make the Cs a horrible crunch-time team.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 17, 2013, 06:08:49 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

Dude. I did not say that at all! Don't misquote me!!
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: FallGuy on February 17, 2013, 06:14:56 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

I agree with your first paragraph. He's a league-average tweener forward who can't rebound who is being paid like a second-tier star. He was a level or two worse than that over the first few months of the season. So, he's ascended to mediocrity.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 17, 2013, 06:19:41 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

I agree with your first paragraph. He's a league-average tweener forward who can't rebound who is being paid like a second-tier star. He was a level or two worse than that over the first few months of the season. So, he's ascended to mediocrity.

SMH. Do you know what league average is? League average would be someone who is ACTUALLY average like Travis Outlaw or something... Pietrus maybe. NOT Green
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: FallGuy on February 17, 2013, 06:23:04 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

I agree with your first paragraph. He's a league-average tweener forward who can't rebound who is being paid like a second-tier star. He was a level or two worse than that over the first few months of the season. So, he's ascended to mediocrity.

SMH. Do you know what league average is? League average would be someone who is ACTUALLY average like Travis Outlaw or something... Pietrus maybe. NOT Green

Outlaw's playing so few minutes it's not a great comparison (at all) but per minute, his production is only marginally less than Green's this season.

Green has yet to record a 15.00 PER in his entire career.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 17, 2013, 06:23:43 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

I agree with your first paragraph. He's a league-average tweener forward who can't rebound who is being paid like a second-tier star. He was a level or two worse than that over the first few months of the season. So, he's ascended to mediocrity.

SMH. Do you know what league average is? League average would be someone who is ACTUALLY average like Travis Outlaw or something... Pietrus maybe. NOT Green

Outlaw's playing so few minutes it's not a great comparison (at all) but per minute, his production is only marginally less than Green's this season.

Green has yet to record a 15.00 PER in his entire career.

Look. Average players score maybe 5, 6 ppg and play maybe 15 minutes. Jeff Green is way above average.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: FallGuy on February 17, 2013, 06:26:35 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on Green. I expect the C's will look to move him in the next year, hopefully off the back of a hot streak that bumps up his value around the league.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 17, 2013, 06:28:14 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on Green. I expect the C's will look to move him in the next year, hopefully off the back of a hot streak that bumps up his value around the league.

You guys are way overrating Green, 9 million doesn't get you a superstar and he won't ever be Pierce but he's not Pietrus or Pavlovic either. He is a solid starter at worst. He'd be a starter on every team except NY, Boston, Indiana, OKC, Miami, Portland.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: FallGuy on February 17, 2013, 06:30:52 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree on Green. I expect the C's will look to move him in the next year, hopefully off the back of a hot streak that bumps up his value around the league.

You guys are way overrating Green, 9 million doesn't get you a superstar and he won't ever be Pierce but he's not Pietrus or Pavlovic either. He is a solid starter at worst. He'd be a starter on every team except NY, Boston, Indiana, OKC, Miami, Portland.

Maybe. Maybe not. He still has the same marginal on-court impacts.

Also, the one thing I'm not doing is overrating Green.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: kozlodoev on February 17, 2013, 06:34:04 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

Dude. I did not say that at all! Don't misquote me!!
So please explain what you said, because I am confused.

I take you to mean that his recent play suggests that he's not a dud, which misleads people -- my answer to this is that his recent play is pretty much indicative of what he's been over the course of his career when given minutes.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: ssspence on February 17, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
I don't even like Smith's game -- at all -- but this deal would be such a steal (mostly because the Cs would be getting out from under Bass and Green) that Smith would arrive in Waltham in gift wrapping with a ribbon and bow.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: kozlodoev on February 17, 2013, 06:42:56 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

I agree with your first paragraph. He's a league-average tweener forward who can't rebound who is being paid like a second-tier star. He was a level or two worse than that over the first few months of the season. So, he's ascended to mediocrity.
Your grasp of how much stars are paid is quite far from reality.

Top players in the NBA right now command a $16-20-million. Guys you're calling "second-tier stars" are typically paid in the $12 million range (see Batum in Portland and Lopez in Brooklyn).

Green is paid as much as Gerald Wallace and Jameer Nelson, who have third banana written all over them.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: FallGuy on February 17, 2013, 06:49:18 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

I agree with your first paragraph. He's a league-average tweener forward who can't rebound who is being paid like a second-tier star. He was a level or two worse than that over the first few months of the season. So, he's ascended to mediocrity.
Your grasp of how much stars are paid is quite far from reality.

Top players in the NBA right now command a $16-20-million. Guys you're calling "second-tier stars" are typically paid in the $12 million range (see Batum in Portland and Lopez in Brooklyn).

Green is paid as much as Gerald Wallace and Jameer Nelson, who have third banana written all over them.

Even if we go with your definition, cost-wise, he's not a third-tier guy. He's probably best suited to be the 5th or 6th best guy on a title team. How much do you wanna pay for that?
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: ssspence on February 17, 2013, 06:52:38 PM

Green is paid as much as Gerald Wallace and Jameer Nelson, who have third banana written all over them.

Both of whom are overpaid.  If you put either of these two on waivers, no team would pick them up.

There are star players paid less than your second tier, and there are excellent players paid less than Green, Wallace or Nelson. 

Heck, there are even highly productive players working on bi-annual exception and vet min deals. Much depends on circumstance, and the leverage and intelligence of the respective organization.

Bottom line: Negotiation happens.

Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: nickagneta on February 17, 2013, 06:58:01 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

Dude. I did not say that at all! Don't misquote me!!
So please explain what you said, because I am confused.

I take you to mean that his recent play suggests that he's not a dud, which misleads people -- my answer to this is that his recent play is pretty much indicative of what he's been over the course of his career when given minutes.
This just isn't true kozlodev.

Green's aggregate numbers this year are about what he has had his entire career. His per minute stats are almost exactly the same.

But his recent play, say taking his going back a month(11 games), is not what he has always done. He's much more efficient offensively and he actually is playing very good defense. Over 50% shooting. Over 40% from three. Over 90% from the line while getting to the line by more 1.2 FT per minute. That shows aggression which, once again, he has never been known for.

I am not a fan of Jeff Green's. Heck I have been killing him most of this year. But over his recent stretch, he's been a different player than what he has always been. He's becoming the player some thought he could become.

Then again, its only 11 games and time will tell. He could go into another lackadaisical stretch and even his per minute numbers out like he always has because he is prone to stretches of games of being amazing and then disappearing.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: kozlodoev on February 17, 2013, 06:59:55 PM
Even if we go with your definition, cost-wise, he's not a third-tier guy. He's probably best suited to be the 5th or 6th best guy on a title team. How much do you wanna pay for that?
Um, no. That's just not true.

The fifth guys on the most recent championship teams were Joel Anthony, DeShawn Stevenson, Ron Artest, and Trevor Ariza.

Forgive me if I'm convinced that Jeff Green is better than every single one of them.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: FallGuy on February 17, 2013, 07:03:38 PM
Even if we go with your definition, cost-wise, he's not a third-tier guy. He's probably best suited to be the 5th or 6th best guy on a title team. How much do you wanna pay for that?
Um, no. That's just not true.

The fifth guys on the most recent championship teams were Joel Anthony, DeShawn Stevenson, Ron Artest, and Trevor Ariza.

Forgive me if I'm convinced that Jeff Green is better than every single one of them.

I think we're at an impasse. Anyway, we'll see how things unfold.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: kozlodoev on February 17, 2013, 07:05:27 PM
It's surprising how many people are fooled by Green's recent play. The guy's a dud. Has been his whole career.
That's funny, because Green's recent play is indicative of what he's been over most of his career.

His performance with us is to to a large extent an artifact of the role we have for him on the roster.

Dude. I did not say that at all! Don't misquote me!!
So please explain what you said, because I am confused.

I take you to mean that his recent play suggests that he's not a dud, which misleads people -- my answer to this is that his recent play is pretty much indicative of what he's been over the course of his career when given minutes.
This just isn't true kozlodev.

Green's aggregate numbers this year are about what he has had his entire career. His per minute stats are almost exactly the same.

But his recent play, say taking his going back a month(11 games), is not what he has always done. He's much more efficient offensively and he actually is playing very good defense. Over 50% shooting. Over 40% from three. Over 90% from the line while getting to the line by more 1.2 FT per minute. That shows aggression which, once again, he has never been known for.

I am not a fan of Jeff Green's. Heck I have been killing him most of this year. But over his recent stretch, he's been a different player than what he has always been. He's becoming the player some thought he could become.

Then again, its only 11 games and time will tell. He could go into another lackadaisical stretch and even his per minute numbers out like he always has because he is prone to stretches of games of being amazing and then disappearing.
For starters, this wasn't the point of my post.

But even so, he's had months in which he shot 50/40 with 4-5 FTs for ~15-17 pts before. He won't sustain this efficiency level in the long run, but that's fine. Again, that's not the point here.
Title: Re: Bass and green for josh smith? RUMORS.
Post by: nickagneta on February 17, 2013, 07:20:31 PM

For starters, this wasn't the point of my post.

But even so, he's had months in which he shot 50/40 with 4-5 FTs for ~15-17 pts before. He won't sustain this efficiency level in the long run, but that's fine. Again, that's not the point here.
I think CC's point was that his recent play, which has been consistent and excellent, fool's people into thinking he is consistent and excellent, which he is not.

You then countered that his recent play is indicative of what Green has been his entire career.

It isn't though. His play this year as a whole is indicative of what Green has been his entire career, but his recent play has been much better than that.

And I agree and I think CC agrees with you that Green won't keep this stretch up. He never does.