CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: JSD on February 16, 2013, 03:39:51 AM
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I think it's a no brainer that dramatically improves our chances this season of winning it all.
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No brainer? Has he helped the Lakers? That is right, he has not!
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
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He's not healthy this year, but when healthy it would help us.
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I don't trust Howard. And I think he's on of the most disappointing and underachieving players in a long time. I also severely question his mental state.
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HECK NO!
Not if he's not committed in staying in Boston, and is committed to stop being a crybaby.
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While I would do it, I would rather do Rondo for Al Horford.
Either way, the only way I don't do it is if the wrong pieces are included to make salaries match. I always trade an All Star small for an All Star big. It's not like it's MJ or Kobe Or Lebron here.
No way I include Bradley, Sullinger or Jeff Green. Not to thrilled about including Courtney Lee either. Include Bass, Terry, Wilcox, Melo or Barbosa. Probably take a pick or two as well.
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
These are all very weak arguments.
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No but I would trade KG for him.
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You know, this isn't even a realistic trade. That's how lopsided it would be in our favor if it happened. Yet, lots of posters still saying no. Incredible.
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This would be a totally stupid trade from Boston.
We have a proven leader, top tier playoff performer and we trade him for diva who hasn't achieved anything in his career? Ridiculous.
Give Howard to a losing team where he can keep smiling on the floor, i'll stick with Rondo's grit, competitiveness and toughness. Qualities Howard has never shown
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You know, this isn't even a realistic trade. That's how lopsided it would be in our favor if it happened. Yet, lots of posters still saying no. Incredible.
Even with his very long list of flaws I'd probably still do it. Who knows how Rondo will be after he gets back.
But I do not like Howard. And I do not think you can build a championship team around him as your star. That said the same could be said about Rondo too.
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Howard is one of my least favorite players in the league but the trade is a no brainer because he is one of the best when healthy.
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
why is Danny contemplating blowing it up because rondo is injured?
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
These are all very weak arguments.
I disagree. If they shot the ball decent enough while Rondo is finding them wide open we couldve not had a 6 game skid prior to his injury.
And I cant deny the fact that the Lakers are much more talented than us, yet they sre below 500.
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No brainer? Has he helped the Lakers? That is right, he has not!
If he did then he wouldn't be available in the first place. Howard has the ability to be an impact player so it would be worth the gamble for Boston.
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No... I would have a tough time cheering for this guy. Hated him ever since he hit that hook shot over Perk twice and ran down the court stearing at his hand like it was something special. He is a tool.
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
These are all very weak arguments.
It's also weak to claim Rondo doesn't help our chances when he's proven the opposite to be true time and again, or to ignore that Danny mentioned that the team's offensive struggles had a lot to do with two of our best offensive players struggling with injuries.
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
1. Mike Brown and the Princeton offense
2. Bernie Bickerstaff
3. D'Antoni and his offense
Brown and D'Antoni were trying to put square pegs into round holes. Many players (esp. Gasol) were alienated and sniping among themselves.
If the trade presents itself, you gotta do it.
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I do this trade. While I always thought Howard was overrated his game fits nearly perfect with our needs.
He is obviously not the same player he was before the back and he may never be. He allows PP and KG to play for a few more years of legitimate contending.
As long as he isnt concerned with his shot attempts.
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No brainer? Has he helped the Lakers? That is right, he has not!
Stop man...What kind of logic is that??? Did KG heped T'wolves to win the championship?? After that KG helped us to get the ring
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No brainer? Has he helped the Lakers? That is right, he has not!
Stop man...What kind of logic is that???
The kind that's identical to your "trade Rondo" logic?
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
These are all very weak arguments.
It's also weak to claim Rondo doesn't help our chances when he's proven the opposite to be true time and again, or to ignore that Danny mentioned that the team's offensive struggles had a lot to do with two of our best offensive players struggling with injuries.
I'm not making the arguments, in fact, my "argument" was weak on purpose just to show it.
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No brainer? Has he helped the Lakers? That is right, he has not!
Stop man...What kind of logic is that???
The kind that's identical to your "trade Rondo" logic?
I following your wrong logic. You do not like DH12 beacuase he did not helped LAL...
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
These are all very weak arguments.
It's also weak to claim Rondo doesn't help our chances when he's proven the opposite to be true time and again, or to ignore that Danny mentioned that the team's offensive struggles had a lot to do with two of our best offensive players struggling with injuries.
I'm not making the arguments, in fact, my "argument" was weak on purpose just to show it.
In that case, my apologies. Well done.
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
These are all very weak arguments.
I disagree. If they shot the ball decent enough while Rondo is finding them wide open we couldve not had a 6 game skid prior to his injury.
And I cant deny the fact that the Lakers are much more talented than us, yet they sre below 500.
The Lakers are not much more talented than us, they have a very weak bench, zero defensive philosophy, being coached by someone who doesn't have the personnel to do what he wants them to do... yet he's stubbornly keeps trying.
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
These are all very weak arguments.
I disagree. If they shot the ball decent enough while Rondo is finding them wide open we couldve not had a 6 game skid prior to his injury.
And I cant deny the fact that the Lakers are much more talented than us, yet they sre below 500.
The Lakers are not much more talented than us, they have a very weak bench, zero defensive philosophy, being coached by someone who doesn't have the personnel to do what he wants them to do... yet he's stubbornly keeps trying.
You missed one. Three letter word, starts with "o", ends with "ld".
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Why didn't he dramatically help the Lakers chances?
Why didn't Rondo dramatically help the Celtics chances?
His teammates weren't hitting shots, including Paul. Lack of effort in the first few games.
Dwight had Pau and Kobe and Nash and still couldn't help the Lakers. For a guy who's supposed to be dominant, he didn't do a thing to help the Lakers chances.
These are all very weak arguments.
I disagree. If they shot the ball decent enough while Rondo is finding them wide open we couldve not had a 6 game skid prior to his injury.
And I cant deny the fact that the Lakers are much more talented than us, yet they sre below 500.
The Lakers are not much more talented than us, they have a very weak bench, zero defensive philosophy, being coached by someone who doesn't have the personnel to do what he wants them to do... yet he's stubbornly keeps trying.
You missed one. Three letter word, starts with "o", ends with "ld".
You know, I had actually typed it down, but deleted it lol.
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No brainer? Has he helped the Lakers? That is right, he has not!
Stop man...What kind of logic is that???
The kind that's identical to your "trade Rondo" logic?
I following your wrong logic. You do not like DH12 beacuase he did not helped LAL...
I didn't say anything about not liking Dwight. I'm just saying that you're complaining about someone making the same argument about Howard that you keep making about Rondo.
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My initial reaction last night was maybe. Probably leaning slightly towards yes. After thinking about it some more, while I still wouldn't dismiss it out of hand (depending on what other parts are included), I'm pretty solidly in the "NO" camp.
Rondo just has so much more of that "winners mentality" than Howard does. I'd beg you all to go ask KG or Kobe (two players who are widely accepted as the fiercest competitors in the game). I'd bet everything I own those two would rather have Rondo on their side. That is all you need to know, IMHO.
Plus, I am more concerned about Howard's back than I an Rondo's knee.
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I'd beg you all to go ask KG or Kobe (two players who are widely accepted as the fiercest competitors in the game). I'd bet everything I own those two would rather have Rondo on their side.
I beg you to think: Who is gona improve more Cs team, Rondo or Howard
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im down to trade rondo for the right player, but no way i want that idiot howard in green!!
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What has Dwight Howard accomplished in his career, along with his back and shoulder injuries, that would make him a desirable addition to this team?
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What has Dwight Howard accomplished in his career, along with his back and shoulder injuries, that would make him a desirable addition to this team?
He went into NBa final 2009 having a modest team(Turkogly, Nelson). 4 times defensive player of the NBA. 7 times All star member, being 5 times starter, being only 27 years old now. What he did before, does mean anything. Remeber KG @ T'Wolves
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I'm not a huge Howard fan. He's not good enough offensively to carry a team to a title and he's come up small in a lot of big games. Still, he's an elite defender and rebounder, and likely the best center in the NBA.
That said, for all the recent success since Rondo's injury, it won't keep up to the tune of title #18 with the way things are going now.
If Ainge is convinced Rondo is too much of a diva to build a team around, a trade for Howard is very intriguing. It'd give the Celtics a chance to win #18 right now. Could you imagine a defense anchored by Howard, KG, and Bradley?
As for next year, one of two things happen.
The money talks and Howard stays. Or if he walks, we go into full rebuilding mode from scratch.
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Plus, I am more concerned about Howard's back than I an Rondo's knee.
I am more concerned about Rondo's ball-stopping offensive style and his growing reluctance to muster anything close to an acceptable defensive effort.
I don't think for a minute LA would take Rondo today for Howard.
But I'd move him for Howard in a second if they would. Always move a 1 for a 5. Always.
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I'd only do the Rondo/Howard deal, if it's Rondo plus picks, for Howard.
Otherwise, it would be like what happened in the 90s, when Houston traded all their glue players for Charles Barkley and then, had a team with one aging shooting guard (with worn out legs) Drexler, an aging frontline of Olajuwon & Barkley, and zero bench. It was pretty clear that the Rockets would never see a title afterwards.
For the Cs, losing Rondo alone, would be worth it, as all the glue players would stick around, and form a system to support Pierce/KG, with Howard in the middle for defense and rebounding. And that's fine, a 8-10 ppg, 8-10 rpg, 0 assists, perhaps a shot block or two big man in the middle. I can live with that.
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Plus, I am more concerned about Howard's back than I an Rondo's knee.
I am more concerned about Rondo's ball-stopping offensive style and his growing reluctance to muster anything close to an acceptable defensive effort.
I don't think for a minute LA would take Rondo today for Howard.
But I'd move him for Howard in a second if they would. Always move a 1 for a 5. Always.
But you're not concerned about Howard's immature attitude, and seeming lack of "killer instinct"?
Howard has even more flaws than Rondo does.
I suspect you listen to far too much Michael Felger.
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I would trade Rondo for just about any all-star or fringe all-star in the NBA. Get KG and Pierce some reinforcements for their last run by dealing Rondo, and let those guys ride off into the sunset.
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I'm not a huge Howard fan. He's not good enough offensively to carry a team to a title and he's come up small in a lot of big games. Still, he's an elite defender and rebounder, and likely the best center in the NBA.
That said, for all the recent success since Rondo's injury, it won't keep up to the tune of title #18 with the way things are going now.
If Ainge is convinced Rondo is too much of a diva to build a team around, a trade for Howard is very intriguing. It'd give the Celtics a chance to win #18 right now. Could you imagine a defense anchored by Howard, KG, and Bradley?
As for next year, one of two things happen.
The money talks and Howard stays. Or if he walks, we go into full rebuilding mode from scratch.
I think this is right for this year.
But what are our pieces going forward?
Sully, Bradley, Lee, Green, Bass...Melo I guess...middling pick in weak draft this year.
Bradley/Barbosa
Lee/
Green/
Bass/Sully
.../Wilcox/Melo
Need that go-to scorer. That lineup would struggle to score 70.
We need a star to complement KG/Pierce, and we need one to succeed them. Rondo isn't the guy who carries the team to wins (or will carry them to more losses than wins).
Who supports wins now and makes sense to build with going forward? DH is a possibility, of course. Big Al? Maybe.
With Lee and Bradley in the corners, and Green and Bass just outside/inside the 3pt line above the FT line, the floor would be pretty open for Big Al or whatever scoring big we can get.
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At this point after 92 votes, 2 out of every 3 Celtic fans pull the trigger. Quite interesting.
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Trading Rondo for Dwight would have about the same impact as trading Cliff Hagan and Ed Macauley for Bill Russell, or trading Rickey Brown and Joe Barry Carroll for Robert Parish and Kevin McHale.
Danny Ainge would be in the conversation of Greatest GMs of All Time Not Named Auerbach.
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Trading Rondo for Dwight would have about the same impact as trading Cliff Hagan and Ed Macauley for Bill Russell, or trading Rickey Brown and Joe Barry Carroll for Robert Parish and Kevin McHale.
Danny Ainge would be in the conversation of Greatest GMs of All Time Not Named Auerbach.
He'd have to find a way to throw in the Ice Capades. No way to ever beat Auerbach these days.
If KG, Pierce, JET, Bradley, and Green are the main cogs of the current roster, that leaves a pretty decent package available for that star big to anchor the present and future teams.
Rondo, Sully, and Melo are the main bait we have, plus picks and cash, without upsetting the current apple cart. I'd add Bass to the list, assuming a starting-level big returns to play next to KG.
I'd say Bradley, Lee, Green, and a star big are a nice start to the next phase of greatness for the franchise.
I'm happy to trade Rondo as the main piece of a package, but I'd surely be tempted to go higher for the right piece and include Sully and a pick, but I'd have to be sure it could put us over the top this year.
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The Celtics would have to.
When healthy, Howard in a top 4 player. The best big man of his generation.
The best big man of a generation have always won a title.
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Kareem
Wilt
Russel
And Dwight has proven he can be the center piece of a team that went to the finals.
And I have nothing bad to say about Rondo. This isn't about his skills or his game.
It is about getting the best big man in the game when he gets healthy.
With that said, it is a complete pipe dream. If the Lakers do choose to move him, there will be better offers then an injured PG.
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The Celtics would have to.
When healthy, Howard in a top 4 player. The best big man of his generation.
The best big man of a generation have always won a title.
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Kareem
Wilt
Russel
And Dwight has proven he can be the center piece of a team that went to the finals.
And I have nothing bad to say about Rondo. This isn't about his skills or his game.
It is about getting the best big man in the game when he gets healthy.
With that said, it is a complete pipe dream. If the Lakers do choose to move him, there will be better offers then an injured PG.
Wdleehi TP!
I love Rondo and even thought this game is run by PG's now you need a big man(unless your MJ or Lebron). The magic got there with him and a (honestly) weak supporting cast. With a Boston history we can do a lot better than 09 Magic. No brainer
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At this point after 92 votes, 2 out of every 3 Celtic fans pull the trigger. Quite interesting.
And I bet you that 32 out of 32 GM's would trade rondo for Howard. And 0 out of 32 would trade Howard for rondo.
Basically, the fact that one third or Celt fans wouldn't make this trade is outrageous. But like I said before, this proposed trade is so unrealistic, I'd be shocked if the lakers considered at all.
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Um . . . duh.
Injured back or not, he's the best center in the league. I think Rondo is great, but even if you think they're equal in value, you trade small for size any day of the week.
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No but I would trade KG for him.
I concur especially with Rondo injured. Danny would just have to make minor changes for us to compete hard over the next six seasons.
(not that this is available)
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From out of left field but really not that crazy how about this?
Dwight Howard and MWP for KG and the Captain.
Why for Boston? Sends Pierce and KG to a city they like for their own reasons and brings back a guy who is possibly a franchise center. KG and Paul continue to battle together along with some old rivals and take on the young champs and RAY one or two last times.
Why for LA? With a decent coach you would think that could be the best half-court lineup going. LA does not worry about rebuilding when its over because with cap room they seem to get their guys every time.
Boston is instantly rebuilt waiting for a few young guys to develop to seriously be in the mix assuming good health for a bunch of guys who have had serious injuries. Howard, Rondo, Sullinger, Bradley, Green, Wilcox, Barbosa and a few guys who have been actually healthy Lee, Terry,Bass, MWP
Dwight can get all the shots he could want with no other volume shooters on the squad and this team could play very good defense.
Why not for the Celtics? Sending the faces of the franchise to the Lakers! I would seriously have to not hate the Lakers for a few years.
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Trading Rondo for Dwight would have about the same impact as trading Cliff Hagan and Ed Macauley for Bill Russell, or trading Rickey Brown and Joe Barry Carroll for Robert Parish and Kevin McHale.
Danny Ainge would be in the conversation of Greatest GMs of All Time Not Named Auerbach.
If Dwight would have an impact remotely comparable to Russell or Parish and McHale then he'd have a title or two by now.
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Howard is the more dominant of the two. I love Rondo, but it's a trade you'd have to seriously consider, especially if Howard signs an long term extension. It would be interesting to see the team Ainge would build around him.
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Yes!
79 (69.9%)
NO!
34 (30.1%)
The results are shown clear that 70% of people agree the deal Rondo-Howard!! Go Danny do it...
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Hate to interrupt the poll, but no one has offered up a legitimate reason why Kupchak would move Howard for an injured player whose absence has rejuvenated his team.
There aren't enough basketballs for Rondo and Kobe.
It isn't happening.
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Hate to interrupt the poll, but no one has offered up a legitimate reason why Kupchak would move Howard for an injured player whose absence has rejuvenated his team.
There aren't enough basketballs for Rondo and Kobe.
It isn't happening.
Here are some possible factors weighing in:
1. Playoff possibilities are very low.
2. Howard's trade value are not that high at the moment, considering he won't commit to anyone.
3. Lakers traded a lot of their draft picks.
4. Howard will probably walk after this season, leaving the Lakers with little assets to improve, while still being way above the cap.
5. You gain Rondo at a discount for a few years, which will let you improve your team during a time when your options are severely limited, plus a young piece that will help you rebuild in 2 years.
At a glance, this is as much a win-win trade as it comes.
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I get how people love to assemble eight-team trades where every member of every roster gets moved and all that.
Just saying that if Mitch wants to move Howard, he can do better than Rondo. There's a reason why Danny hasn't been able to move Rondo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.
Although I'd love watching Kobe trying to cope while Rondo pounds the ball for 16 seconds at the top of the key searching for an assist. That would be enough entertainment to turn me into an 82-game Laker watcher on League Pass.
People refuse to see that which they don't want to believe.
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I get how people love to assemble eight-team trades where every member of every roster gets moved and all that.
Just saying that if Mitch wants to move Howard, he can do better than Rondo. There's a reason why Danny hasn't been able to move Rondo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.
People refuse to see that which they don't want to believe.
To what team exactly? Howard at the moment is a player with health issues on a one year rental. How many teams are lining up to get on that deal by giving the Lakers real assets?
The uncertainty of Howard's future severely dampens his value. It wasn't like Orlando hit the lottery of player talent when they moved him.
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I get how people love to assemble eight-team trades where every member of every roster gets moved and all that.
Just saying that if Mitch wants to move Howard, he can do better than Rondo. There's a reason why Danny hasn't been able to move Rondo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.
According to Danny it's because he's not trying to move Rondo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.
People refuse to see that which they don't want to believe.
Too funny.
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I get how people love to assemble eight-team trades where every member of every roster gets moved and all that.
Just saying that if Mitch wants to move Howard, he can do better than Rondo. There's a reason why Danny hasn't been able to move Rondo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.
According to Danny it's because he's not trying to move Rondo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.
People refuse to see that which they don't want to believe.
Too funny.
danny offered rondo for cp3 (who didn't have a long term contract and was coming off injury)What makes you think he wouldn't for dwight?
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I get how people love to assemble eight-team trades where every member of every roster gets moved and all that.
Just saying that if Mitch wants to move Howard, he can do better than Rondo. There's a reason why Danny hasn't been able to move Rondo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.
According to Danny it's because he's not trying to move Rondo, as much as people here don't want to admit it.
People refuse to see that which they don't want to believe.
Too funny.
danny offered rondo for cp3 (who didn't have a long term contract and was coming off injury)What makes you think he wouldn't for dwight?
I wouldn't be surprised if he did, just like it wouldn't surprise me if he tried to offer them pretty much anyone on the roster for Dwight. Trying to acquire a better asset isn't really the same as trying to unload a player.