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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Eddie20 on February 15, 2013, 09:48:32 PM

Title: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Eddie20 on February 15, 2013, 09:48:32 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21710534/whats-right-for-dwight-will-lakers-deal-howard


Ken Berger:

Quote
However, CBSSports.com has learned that the Lakers have engaged in preliminary trade discussions with an unlikely trade partner regarding Howard: their fierce rival, the Boston Celtics. The centerpieces of the possible deal, which hasn't gained any traction, would be Howard and Rajon Rondo.

The imagination runs rampant with the tantalizing possibilities.

Other significant pieces would have to be involved, since Rondo's $11 million salary is substantially less than Howard's $19.5 million. If the Lakers dealt Howard for an All-Star point guard who is out for the rest of the season following ACL surgery, they'd effectively be throwing in the towel on this miserable, underachieving season and looking to next year.

The Celtics would be going all-in for a quick rebuild centered around Howard, with the hopes they could find a point guard in the draft or in free agency to capably run their offense – which they've managed to do in Rondo's absence anyway. Celtics president Danny Ainge has flirted with several trade possibilities for Rondo over the years, and the point guard's hyper-competitive drive and strong personality have proved difficult for coach Doc Rivers to manage.

There are at least two significant impediments to a Howard-Rondo deal. First, as Howard said Friday, the Lakers continue to insist they won't trade him, which sources say is the impression the Celtics have gotten, too. Second, Celtics president Danny Ainge would not trade Rondo without an assurance that Howard would re-sign with Boston as a free agent this summer, a league source said. Howard has shown no inclination to commit to anyone, including the Lakers, until the season is over.

Since the league source familiar with the discussions characterized them as preliminary, it's possible that the talks could be tabled until after the season. In that case, Howard would have to agree to a sign-and-trade to the Celtics that would only yield him a four-year deal as opposed to the five years the Lakers could offer him (or the Celtics, if he were traded there by Feb. 21 and subsequently re-signed). The Celtics could only acquire Howard in a sign-and-trade if they eschewed their full mid-level and remained below the so-called luxury-tax apron, a threshold $4 million above the tax line that was added in the 2011 collective bargaining agreement.

While the discussions have yet to progress, if nothing else, they open a potential avenue open for the Lakers to minimize the chances of losing Howard as a free agent and getting nothing in return. In other words, a fallback plan.

Would a trade to the Celtics make Howard happy, something he admitted Friday he has only experienced "at certain points" with the Lakers this season? At this point, it's difficult to fathom what, exactly, would make Howard happy. All we know is that Howard is determined not to commit to anyone before the season is over, including the Lakers, because he wants to avoid the distractions and circus atmosphere that consumed his final months in Orlando.
Title: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JOMVP on February 15, 2013, 09:49:50 PM
However, CBSSports.com has learned that the Lakers have engaged in preliminary trade discussions with an unlikely trade partner regarding Howard: their fierce rival, the Boston Celtics. The centerpieces of the possible deal, which hasn't gained any traction, would be Howard and Rajon Rondo.


This rumor is hilarious to me. It brought a bit of chuckle to me when I read it. In my take this rumor seriously mind... I'm all for trading Rondo, but please keep this guy away from my team.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: vinnie on February 15, 2013, 09:50:59 PM
Please. This is beyond stupid. Dwight Howard is a knucklehead who really doesn't care about winning. Not interested.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2013, 09:51:14 PM
As the article says, there's "no traction", so I can't imagine there's any seriousness to this.

That said, I'd do this deal in a second.  I don't know why LA would, though.  They've already got Nash, and it seems like trading for an injured Rondo would basically be throwing a year of Kobe's career away.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2013, 09:51:51 PM
Please. This is beyond stupid. Dwight Howard is a knucklehead who really doesn't care about winning. Not interested.

At the same time, trading for him this season would make us instant co-favorites in the East.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jambr380 on February 15, 2013, 09:52:21 PM
If this was for real, I think people should be pretty psyched. We all know that the Lakers [and Kobe] covet Rondo. Being able to reel in a player like Dwight would be humongous. I am all for keeping Rondo and there are only like 6-7 players I would trade him for...Dwight is one of them, even with all his recent shortcomings.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 15, 2013, 09:52:43 PM
As much as I'd dislike Howard to wear Celtics' Green, if this trade is on the table, you have to do it, no ifs or buts about it.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 09:54:14 PM
Link?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on February 15, 2013, 09:54:24 PM
bizness

YES

my heart

No!!
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 09:54:50 PM
Nash for Granger would then make sense for both teams assuming Granger is healthy for next season.

Pacers could use a pg like nash.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: Eddie20 on February 15, 2013, 09:55:03 PM
As the article says, there's "no traction", so I can't imagine there's any seriousness to this.

That said, I'd do this deal in a second.  I don't know why LA would, though.  They've already got Nash, and it seems like trading for an injured Rondo would basically be throwing a year of Kobe's career away.

Would you do Rondo and Pierce for Howard and Nash?

I would say Green and Bass instead of Pierce, but the Lakers reportedly don't want to take on long term money for the impending LeBron sweepstakes.

Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 15, 2013, 09:55:24 PM
False rumor, Dwight and Mitch said: "NO TRADES"
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 15, 2013, 09:57:01 PM
False rumor, Dwight and Mitch said: "NO TRADES"

That's completely meaningless.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: JOMVP on February 15, 2013, 09:57:12 PM
There's no way Dwight signs an extension here. He's a guy who doesnt seem to care about basketball as much as he cares about his name becoming popular culture. Players don't become pop culture superstars in Boston - they win titles and become hall of fame basketball players. I dont know how much Dwight Howard cares about that.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 09:57:45 PM
False rumor, Dwight and Mitch said: "NO TRADES"

Always believe the opposite of what a gm says around trade deadline time.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: __34__ on February 15, 2013, 09:57:56 PM
If this was for real, I think people should be pretty psyched. We all know that the Lakers [and Kobe] covet Rondo. Being able to reel in a player like Dwight would be humongous. I am all for keeping Rondo and there are only like 6-7 players I would trade him for...Dwight is one of them, even with all his recent shortcomings.

Yup, most Laker fans I know have major respect for Rondo. As for Dwight, we all saw last week that he isn't healthy yet, KG has been better this season than Dwight, so I am not sure how much this would help us this season.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: jambr380 on February 15, 2013, 09:58:54 PM
As the article says, there's "no traction", so I can't imagine there's any seriousness to this.

That said, I'd do this deal in a second.  I don't know why LA would, though.  They've already got Nash, and it seems like trading for an injured Rondo would basically be throwing a year of Kobe's career away.

Would you do Rondo and Pierce for Howard and Nash?

I would say Green and Bass instead of Pierce, but the Lakers reportedly don't want to take on long term money for the impending LeBron sweepstakes.

At first thought, Dwight and Nash added to KG, Green, Avery, and co. sounds like an instant title contender...but then I realized that Dwight and Nash with Kobe and Pau has yielded absolutely miserable results...I think I stick with Pierce over Nash.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: Eddie20 on February 15, 2013, 09:59:21 PM
There's no way Dwight signs an extension here. He's a guy who doesnt seem to care about basketball as much as he cares about his name becoming popular culture. Players don't become pop culture superstars in Boston - they win titles and become hall of fame basketball players. I dont know how much Dwight Howard cares about that.

But he's not happy in LA and if he cared solely about "pop culture" he would undoubtedly want to stay there. Perhaps a trade to our team and culture would change his tune.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on February 15, 2013, 10:00:05 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 15, 2013, 10:01:18 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: Eddie20 on February 15, 2013, 10:02:23 PM
As the article says, there's "no traction", so I can't imagine there's any seriousness to this.

That said, I'd do this deal in a second.  I don't know why LA would, though.  They've already got Nash, and it seems like trading for an injured Rondo would basically be throwing a year of Kobe's career away.

Would you do Rondo and Pierce for Howard and Nash?

I would say Green and Bass instead of Pierce, but the Lakers reportedly don't want to take on long term money for the impending LeBron sweepstakes.

At first thought, Dwight and Nash added to KG, Green, Avery, and co. sounds like an instant title contender...but then I realized that Dwight and Nash with Kobe and Pau has yielded absolutely miserable results...I think I stick with Pierce over Nash.

Gasol and Howard are an awful fit together when paired in D'Antoni's offense. Kobe and Nash are also poor fits because they both need the ball. On the other hand, I think KG and Howard would be an amazing fit. Plus, I think Nash in pick and pops with KG and Bass, or on pick and rolls would with Howard would be a nice combination as long as they have shooters, which LA doesn't, that can keep the help D from cheating.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: ssspence on February 15, 2013, 10:02:27 PM
Cs do it in a heartbeat. Good luck, Danny!

Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: jambr380 on February 15, 2013, 10:03:07 PM
There's no way Dwight signs an extension here. He's a guy who doesnt seem to care about basketball as much as he cares about his name becoming popular culture. Players don't become pop culture superstars in Boston - they win titles and become hall of fame basketball players. I dont know how much Dwight Howard cares about that.

I get that Dwight has been a Diva for the last year or so, but I never quite got this thinking.

If Dwight wanted his name known, wouldn't LA be the absolute perfect place to make that happen? He simply wanted to play for NY or Brooklyn before this season. Is it possible he's just an east coast guy? Boston is a mere 200 miles from NY. Again, I love love love Rondo, but when you have a chance to acquire a top tier center, you do it.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 15, 2013, 10:03:28 PM
You know, for all my Dwight hate angle... from a different perspective, he's kinda a hero for Celtics fan.

He single-handedly destroyed the enemy this season.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Fafnir on February 15, 2013, 10:04:07 PM
Ainge kicking the tires that's all.

I doubt Dwight would want to come here without Rondo to play with. His enthusiasm would be necessary for the Cs to make such a move.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Eddie20 on February 15, 2013, 10:04:23 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

I definitely believe them. I mean if Mitch were dangling Howard in trades what better way to increase trade leverage and boost team morale then by publicly stating you're doing so.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: celticpride07 on February 15, 2013, 10:04:36 PM
The question is would you trade rondo for dwight if it meant winning the title this year? The answer for me is yes. Dwight tastes winning he resigns I bet.

Would have to be rondo and bass for dwight to make the money work


Bradley
Lee/terry
Pierce/green
Garnett/
Howard
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: jambr380 on February 15, 2013, 10:06:12 PM
As the article says, there's "no traction", so I can't imagine there's any seriousness to this.

That said, I'd do this deal in a second.  I don't know why LA would, though.  They've already got Nash, and it seems like trading for an injured Rondo would basically be throwing a year of Kobe's career away.

Would you do Rondo and Pierce for Howard and Nash?

I would say Green and Bass instead of Pierce, but the Lakers reportedly don't want to take on long term money for the impending LeBron sweepstakes.

At first thought, Dwight and Nash added to KG, Green, Avery, and co. sounds like an instant title contender...but then I realized that Dwight and Nash with Kobe and Pau has yielded absolutely miserable results...I think I stick with Pierce over Nash.

Gasol and Howard are an awful fit together when paired in D'Antoni's offense. Kobe and Nash are also poor fits because they both need the ball. On the other hand, I think KG and Howard would be an amazing fit. Plus, I think Nash in pick and pops with KG and Bass, or on pick and rolls would with Howard would be a nice combination as long as they have shooters, which LA doesn't, that can keep the help D from cheating.

I get 'fit' in terms of pure basketball talent, but when you have [essentially] four future hall of famers in their mid-late primes, you find a way. This whole season has been about attitude. I get that there have been injuries, but there has been way too much chirping coming out of LA.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on February 15, 2013, 10:07:48 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

True, that.

But Ken Berger is not one to just kick stuff around...the man is serious about his work.

He was one of the first to break the lockout ending.

Everything I've seen from him since has considerable substance to it.

As I stated early - I'd hate to see Rondo go - especially for Dwight Howard.

I just don't trust DH anymore.

But Ken Berger? Not one to toss stuff out there for just entertainment....
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 15, 2013, 10:09:09 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

True, that.

But Ken Berger is not one to just kick stuff around...the man is serious about his work.

He was one of the first to break the lockout ending.

Everything I've seen from him since has considerable substance to it.

As I stated early - I'd hate to see Rondo go - especially for Dwight Howard.

I just don't trust DH anymore.

But Ken Berger? Not one to toss stuff out there for just entertainment....

If you can't trust the Lakers GM and the player being traded (who was personally told), there there's no one to trust.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 15, 2013, 10:09:48 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

You really believe that crap?  Mitch would trade Howard if it made the team better.  Just like Danny would trade Rondo if it made us better.

Just about every GM tells the media they aren't going to trade a player, then go into the back and work the phones like hell.  It's how it works near the deadline.  I mean, really, did anyone think we were going to trade Perk that season?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 15, 2013, 10:09:56 PM
Some people here are more Rondo fans than Cs fans. Belive it or not...
If you trade Rondo for Howard you will have plenty of benefits

1- Cs will be biggest contender in the EAST, and will destroy the HEAT Circus of MIAMI
2- Cs will get a big peace in defense
3- Cs will have for 7-8 years the best defensive center in NBA
4- With DW12 Cs will have for sure championship ring
5-With Howard Cs will have the greatest big 3 of the NBA league PP+KG+DH12
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: ItStaysYang on February 15, 2013, 10:10:25 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

... Are you aware that NBA franchise GM's often say things with business implications in mind?

Good god people are so naive
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JSD on February 15, 2013, 10:10:43 PM
This would be an absolute no brainer.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 15, 2013, 10:12:22 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

... Are you aware that NBA franchise GM's often say things with business implications in mind?

Good god people are so naive

Typically when a GM AND a player say something TOGETHER, it's valid. If Mitch still trades Dwight, Lakers will lose 80% of respect from players, fans, and everyone.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on February 15, 2013, 10:13:22 PM
Team would be ridiculous on defense. Would be pretty interesting though. Can't say I would hate it. I am not a huge Dwight guy but he is 6"11 and rebounds the ball. He would help us this year a lot.

Bradley
Lee
Pierce
KG
Howard

Whew thats a lot of D. Only would do it if he agrees to a bigger contract with us right away though.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 15, 2013, 10:14:37 PM
Good god people are so naive

Some fans are so naive...
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on February 15, 2013, 10:14:48 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

True, that.

But Ken Berger is not one to just kick stuff around...the man is serious about his work.

He was one of the first to break the lockout ending.

Everything I've seen from him since has considerable substance to it.

As I stated early - I'd hate to see Rondo go - especially for Dwight Howard.

I just don't trust DH anymore.

But Ken Berger? Not one to toss stuff out there for just entertainment....

If you can't trust the Lakers GM and the player being traded (who was personally told), there there's no one to trust.

I see your point, but I'd keep my head on a swivel the next week or so.

After all, none of saw Kendrick Perkins being traded, either. As shocked as I was about that trade, I think it turned out well for both teams.

But again - Ken Berger has something, here...even if he momentarily hacked into Kupchak's e-mail or something lol, the man is solid.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: ScottHow on February 15, 2013, 10:15:40 PM
Holy crap if Ainge could pull this off he'd be possible gm of the year.

If we are going to keep KG and Paul we might as well swing for the fence and give them the best chance. I'd do this even without a commitment from Howard. Even if he wants to walk we could possibly sign and trade him.

Put Howard next to KG, Pierce and we have a legit shot to take down Miami this year.

Do it Ainge!
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 15, 2013, 10:16:08 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

... Are you aware that NBA franchise GM's often say things with business implications in mind?

Good god people are so naive

Typically when a GM AND a player say something TOGETHER, it's valid. If Mitch still trades Dwight, Lakers will lose 80% of respect from players, fans, and everyone.

That's completely false.  When Dwight signed his ETO last season, he and Otis Smith were all buddy-buddy for about a week, and then we found out Dwight told management to fire SVG and then demanded a trade.

If Mitch traded Dwight, players would still go to LA.  Other than NY, it's the biggest market, has great weather, and a rich history.  That's why LA will always be relevant, and it sucks.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 15, 2013, 10:17:35 PM
Cant see it happening...

It has been so quiet out of the celtics camp rumor wise for this time of year....Too quiet
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JSD on February 15, 2013, 10:18:00 PM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 15, 2013, 10:18:24 PM
Holy crap if Ainge could pull this off he'd be possible gm of the year.

If we are going to keep KG and Paul we might as well swing for the fence and give them the best chance. I'd do this even without a commitment from Howard. Even if he wants to walk we could possibly sign and trade him.


With Howard on the floor even playing bad, MIAMi Circus will feel the presure and will fall apart
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 15, 2013, 10:19:07 PM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.
Don't see why it's shocking. The Dwight Howard experiment has been an abject failure.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Cman on February 15, 2013, 10:19:20 PM
If this was for real, I think people should be pretty psyched. We all know that the Lakers [and Kobe] covet Rondo. Being able to reel in a player like Dwight would be humongous. I am all for keeping Rondo and there are only like 6-7 players I would trade him for...Dwight is one of them, even with all his recent shortcomings.
Ditto. It's a no brainer for the Cs in a straight up swap (which is impossible bc of salaries).
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Smokeeye123 on February 15, 2013, 10:19:41 PM
Honestly? I'd do this deal even if Howard doesn't resign. It makes us legit contenders NOW. I don't care about next year or the year after.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 15, 2013, 10:19:44 PM
Team would be ridiculous on defense. Would be pretty interesting though. Can't say I would hate it. I am not a huge Dwight guy but he is 6"11 and rebounds the ball. He would help us this year a lot.

Bradley
Lee
Pierce
KG
Howard

Whew thats a lot of D. Only would do it if he agrees to a bigger contract with us right away though.

I bet that with Howard this team win this year che championship
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 15, 2013, 10:20:05 PM
Holy crap if Ainge could pull this off he'd be possible gm of the year.

If we are going to keep KG and Paul we might as well swing for the fence and give them the best chance. I'd do this even without a commitment from Howard. Even if he wants to walk we could possibly sign and trade him.


With Howard on the floor even playing bad, MIAMi Circus will feel the presure and will fall apart

Or just foul him and make him shoot free throws.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 15, 2013, 10:21:49 PM
Team would be ridiculous on defense. Would be pretty interesting though. Can't say I would hate it. I am not a huge Dwight guy but he is 6"11 and rebounds the ball. He would help us this year a lot.

Bradley
Lee
Pierce
KG
Howard

Whew thats a lot of D. Only would do it if he agrees to a bigger contract with us right away though.

I bet that with Howard this team win this year che championship

Howard and Garnett together is too slow on the court for today's lineups.

Howard and Gasol showed that pretty emphatically this year.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JSD on February 15, 2013, 10:24:03 PM
Honestly? I'd do this deal even if Howard doesn't resign. It makes us legit contenders NOW. I don't care about next year or the year after.

I'll co-sign here. We need to win right now.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Cman on February 15, 2013, 10:24:58 PM
The question is would you trade rondo for dwight if it meant winning the title this year? The answer for me is yes. Dwight tastes winning he resigns I bet.

Would have to be rondo and bass for dwight to make the money work


Bradley
Lee/terry
Pierce/green
Garnett/
Howard

No, Lakers are going to want more than that.
Likely Rondo+Green+protected first for Howard.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JSD on February 15, 2013, 10:25:31 PM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.
Don't see why it's shocking. The Dwight Howard experiment has been an abject failure.

So you believe Dwight has been or is believed to be the problem? See I think the blame should lay squarely on management for bringing in D'Antoni and Nash.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2013, 10:26:41 PM
Honestly? I'd do this deal even if Howard doesn't resign. It makes us legit contenders NOW. I don't care about next year or the year after.

I'll co-sign here. We need to win right now.

Same here.  When a team has a shot at a championship, it needs to maximize its chances.

The Lakers aren't dumb enough to do this trade, though.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 15, 2013, 10:28:08 PM
Lol i'd do that trade with or without an assurance that Dwight would re-sign.  Dwight is a franchise player... top 5... the best big man in the game.  Absolutely a player you can build a contender around.  Rondo is an allstar point guard (top 5 point guard), who is injured for at least a year... and isn't someone you can really build a team around.

I'd roll the dice.  Best case scenario, Dwight gets healthy enough to win us a title this year.  Worst case scenario, he bails on us, KG and Pierce retire and we start the rebuild off in grand style... cap space and lotto dreams.

I see very little reason for the Lakers to do this, though.  They would be insane to trade a top 5 player for a guy who is injured.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on February 15, 2013, 10:29:05 PM
Wouldn't include Green in this deal though. Need him to be a part of re-bulding with Dwight. I would be willing to do.

Rondo
Bass
Top 15 protected pick

For

Dwight
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: lrybrd on February 15, 2013, 10:29:14 PM
Rondo and Bass gets it done. 

Anyone think that KG knew about this and his comment "y'all don't know what I know" referred to the fact that his buddy (rondo) was going to get traded?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 15, 2013, 10:29:22 PM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.
Don't see why it's shocking. The Dwight Howard experiment has been an abject failure.

So you believe Dwight has been or is believed to be the problem? See I think the blame should lay squarely on management for bringing in D'Antoni and Nash.
There was no D'Antoni or Nash in Orlando.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 15, 2013, 10:30:09 PM
Anyone think that KG knew about this and his comment "y'all don't know what I know" referred to the fact that his buddy (rondo) was going to get traded?
::)
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Sketch5 on February 15, 2013, 10:30:16 PM
Just to add to the rumor,but...

Remember KG saying its his last All Star game, and that he new some thing we didn't for that to be true...

Well DH would get more votes than KG, and depending on the coach KG may not make it on the bench...

I know its reaching, but...

But I don't know how I would feel about it. Rondo is a knuckle head that gets tossed because he's into the game to much, and Howard is a Knuckle head that just likes to play. I would hope a half year with KG would make him hungry.

Worst case maybe use him in a sign and trade with a team of choice at draft time? Can't remember how this all works with the new rules, but I think we could get more for Howard than Rondo at this point...
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 15, 2013, 10:30:26 PM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.
Don't see why it's shocking. The Dwight Howard experiment has been an abject failure.

So you believe Dwight has been or is believed to be the problem? See I think the blame should lay squarely on management for bringing in D'Antoni and Nash.
There was no D'Antoni or Nash in Orlando.

This.

As talented as Dwight is, his immaturity has held him and his teams back tremendously.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 15, 2013, 10:30:59 PM
Rondo and Bass gets it done. 

Anyone think that KG knew about this and his comment "y'all don't know what I know" referred to the fact that his buddy (rondo) was going to get traded?
no
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 10:31:16 PM
I could see it happening if the dislike between Kobe and Dwight is much greater then is being reported.

Dwight's body language and his demeanor are awful. I think he hates playing with Kobe and hates playing for D'Antoni. He's hurt and all they've been doing is calling him out in the media.

Looks like he is turning into the scapegoat for this team's failures.

"Dwight isn't serious enough"
"Dwight isn't implementing his will"
"Dwight can't make free throws"
"Dwight won't play hurt and how much does he want to win"

Just don't see him returning to the Laker organization.

For the Lakers they see the writing on the wall without Pau. It's not happening. And losing Dwight for nothing CANT happen. Kobe loves Rondo. Pau wants to stay and is a good second fiddle and stats show has performed better in Dantoni's offense then Dwight when only one is on the floor. They're awful when both are on the floor.

Get Rondo for Dwight. Move Nash, while you still can b/c his game has slipped, for maybe a Danny Granger. Go for it next year with Rondo, Granger(or someone else), Pau, and Kobe with everyone healthy and more familiar with Dantoni's system.

For Boston moving Bass and Rondo for Howard is like moving Bass for Howard. IF I am Boston I am scared of Rondo's return from an ACL without a consistent offensive game. He relies on his speed so much. His effectiveness could be highly compromised.

Give Paul and KG a better shot at winning and when they come off the books with Terry look to add a major piece that fits with Bradley, Howard, and Green.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BigAlTheFuture on February 15, 2013, 10:31:18 PM
KG and Howard down low? No one is scoring over 60 on us. I'd do this in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JSD on February 15, 2013, 10:32:37 PM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.
Don't see why it's shocking. The Dwight Howard experiment has been an abject failure.

So you believe Dwight has been or is believed to be the problem? See I think the blame should lay squarely on management for bringing in D'Antoni and Nash.
There was no D'Antoni or Nash in Orlando.

Right. And Howard and fourteen guys from this forum went to the NBA Finals three and half years ago. Howard is only 27 years old.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 15, 2013, 10:34:10 PM
Lol even if Kobe and Dwight absolutely despised each other... you can't tell me a super-competitive player like Kobe Bryant would rather go to war with an injured point guard who can't even play until next year... over the best big man in the game.  The Lakers would effectively be punting this season and deciding to build around Rajon Rondo's mediocre future?  Come on...  that's absurd.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 15, 2013, 10:34:31 PM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.
Don't see why it's shocking. The Dwight Howard experiment has been an abject failure.

So you believe Dwight has been or is believed to be the problem? See I think the blame should lay squarely on management for bringing in D'Antoni and Nash.
There was no D'Antoni or Nash in Orlando.

Right. And Howard and fourteen guys from this forum went to the NBA Finals three and half years ago. Howard is only 27 years old.

Yet he acts like he's 7 years old.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 15, 2013, 10:35:42 PM
Looks like he is turning into the scapegoat for this team's failures.
Can you blame them? The guy is a clown. He's allegedly the best center in the NBA, in his prime, and yet has made no difference on a team already loaded with talent.

Sure, he's been injured and all, but he also appears to be more interested in where and with whom he's going to play, than actually figuring out how to win.

I shudder at the idea of having for root for this guy, and that's before we even mention the dirty elbows.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on February 15, 2013, 10:36:54 PM
I've gotta say it again if Danny get him to commit long term than do it. Dwight KG Lee And bradley are some of leagues best defenders. Plus Lee was with Dwight in Orlando when they went to the finals. The defense would be epic.

Will say that Dwight's back and shoulder do scare me a bit though.

Also future would be very bright with a lineup a few years down the road of.

Bradley
Lee
Green
Sully
Dwight
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 15, 2013, 10:37:04 PM
Looks like he is turning into the scapegoat for this team's failures.
Can you blame them? The guy is a clown. He's allegedly the best center in the NBA, in his prime, and yet has made no difference on a team already loaded with talent.

Sure, he's been injured and all, but he also appears to be more interested in where and with whom he's going to play, than actually figuring out how to win.

I shudder at the idea of having for root for this guy, and that's before we even mention the dirty elbows.

Preach, preacher, preach!
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 15, 2013, 10:38:00 PM
Right. And Howard and fourteen guys from this forum went to the NBA Finals three and half years ago. Howard is only 27 years old.
Uh-huh.

So if he's so great, how come he's not going anywhere with teammates who have won multiple championships in the last 5 years?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 10:38:33 PM
I don't like the trade, but Ken Berger has turned out, IMO, to be one of if not THE best sources out there.

The vast majority of his stuff seems to have some traction to it.

There is something to this "rumor"....

But Mitch and Howard already confirmed he's not getting traded... soo....

True, that.

But Ken Berger is not one to just kick stuff around...the man is serious about his work.

He was one of the first to break the lockout ending.

Everything I've seen from him since has considerable substance to it.

As I stated early - I'd hate to see Rondo go - especially for Dwight Howard.

I just don't trust DH anymore.

But Ken Berger? Not one to toss stuff out there for just entertainment....

If you can't trust the Lakers GM and the player being traded (who was personally told), there there's no one to trust.

Like when the Clippers told Eric Gordon you're not being traded and then 18 hours later he was a Hornet/Pelican?

It's business. If the deal falls through they want to make sure damage control is as minimized as possible.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 15, 2013, 10:40:05 PM
Right. And Howard and fourteen guys from this forum went to the NBA Finals three and half years ago. Howard is only 27 years old.
Uh-huh.

So if he's so great, how come he's not going anywhere with teammates who have won multiple championships in the last 5 years?

You could say the same thing for the other guys too. But, recovering from back surgery certainly has no bearing on his play this year. That said, even with all his problems, he's been a top big so far this year.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on February 15, 2013, 10:41:08 PM
Holy crap if Ainge could pull this off he'd be possible gm of the year.

If we are going to keep KG and Paul we might as well swing for the fence and give them the best chance. I'd do this even without a commitment from Howard. Even if he wants to walk we could possibly sign and trade him.


With Howard on the floor even playing bad, MIAMi Circus will feel the presure and will fall apart

Or just foul him and make him shoot free throws.

Yea, it worked so well on Shaq...
 
S/N: Dwight is no Shaq but in today's league he is de facto Shaq considering all the other "centers" in the league.

To the comment about Dwight not working well with Gasol as comparison to what it would look like with KG... KG and Gasol aren't the same players on either end. KG LOVES to shoot from outside the paint, Gasol prefers to be inside... he can shoot from outside but he's no KG! Then on defense, LOL no way that's serious, Gasol is a good defender but KG is one of the greatest of all time and is still one of the top defenders in the league today. So what you see with Gasol/Howard doesn't tell what you would see with KG/Howard! Everything slows down in the playoffs so KG and Howard both being slow wont matter (KG nor DH are even as slow as you claim they are).

With all that said, I have grown to love RR (thinks he needs to loosen reigns a little but I LOVE what he does). I do NOT like Howard at all. I would do this trade only b/c this season and probably next, depending on how/when RR returns, it will make us better. If you think it wouldn't I don't know why... RR is OUT, DH isn't, DH is better than Bass EASILY and he is our starter! So replace Howard for an injured RR (and probably Bass for money) and you can't tell me that isn't a better team, even if DH plays the same as he is in LA! Like I said, I have grown to love RR and what he does but I'm not a player's fan any longer, it's all about the Cs and this makes us better, no doubt, as sad as it is to lose RR, if it's true and Danny could get it done, I think he'd have to.

I know KG and PP would probably be hurt but they would still do their job on the court, there is no doubt, as they did so when Perk was traded!

Lord help me if I end up having to cheer for DH! I'd feel so icky! Much like I would feel cheering KoMe, I'd still hate him but want him to do well for us.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JSD on February 15, 2013, 10:41:21 PM
I do believe there where there is smoke there is fire in this: Mitch covets Rondo. There has been enough rumors surrounding Rondo to the Lakers that leads me to this conclusion.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 10:41:59 PM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.

Can you add some of their comments? Would love to see their reaction and lust for rondo.

I called it! I knew they would turn on Dwight!
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: csfansince60s on February 15, 2013, 10:43:00 PM
My heart says "NO! NO! NO!" but my mind says "YES! YES!YES!"........................how can you not do this?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jamala22 on February 15, 2013, 10:44:00 PM
Lol even if Kobe and Dwight absolutely despised each other... you can't tell me a super-competitive player like Kobe Bryant would rather go to war with an injured point guard who can't even play until next year... over the best big man in the game.  The Lakers would effectively be punting this season and deciding to build around Rajon Rondo's mediocre future?  Come on...  that's absurd.

At this point Laker's management probably realizes the chances for much this season are done.  They need to get younger and this starts that move for them.  This rumor is kind of like how everyone on this forum was discussing the Celtics blowing things up about 3 weeks ago.  Lakers looks to trade off their assets now to position themselves for a quick turnaround. Nash and Gasol still have value as well that can make them younger.  Plus Rondo loves the glitz and glam of National TV games, maybe playing in LA and seeing all the movie stars court side would make him bring his A game every night. 

Overall for the Celtics this year, it would make us a huge threat come playoff time.  KG and Howard down low would close down the lane.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 10:44:56 PM
The question is would you trade rondo for dwight if it meant winning the title this year? The answer for me is yes. Dwight tastes winning he resigns I bet.

Would have to be rondo and bass for dwight to make the money work


Bradley
Lee/terry
Pierce/green
Garnett/
Howard

No, Lakers are going to want more than that.
Likely Rondo+Green+protected first for Howard.

What leverage do they have?!!!!!

The only reason they trade for a pg who cant shoot free throws, struggles shooting period, and IS COMING OFF AN ACL INJURY is because they're not confident at all they will keep him.

Sorry for the all caps. It's for emphasis. Not trying to get on you brother!  ;)
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 10:46:09 PM
Honestly? I'd do this deal even if Howard doesn't resign. It makes us legit contenders NOW. I don't care about next year or the year after.

I'll co-sign here. We need to win right now.

Same here.  When a team has a shot at a championship, it needs to maximize its chances.

The Lakers aren't dumb enough to do this trade, though.

Unless they know something we don't... Like Howard is bouncing at year's end if Kobe is still a Laker.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 15, 2013, 10:46:28 PM
Rondo and Nash on same team. Wat. No. Crazy. No Trade.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 15, 2013, 10:46:31 PM
Right. And Howard and fourteen guys from this forum went to the NBA Finals three and half years ago. Howard is only 27 years old.
Uh-huh.

So if he's so great, how come he's not going anywhere with teammates who have won multiple championships in the last 5 years?

 Tiil last year how many championships got Leabron...Please...
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 15, 2013, 10:47:26 PM
Rondo and Nash on same team. Wat. No. Crazy. No Trade.

Are you super upset about LAL team??? ??? ;D ::)
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 15, 2013, 10:48:12 PM
Watch this end up being the Lakers trading Earl Clark and a protected second-round pick for the Celtics' (lottery-protected) 2013 first round pick.   Clark is a lengthy (6'10"), athletic big who can stretch the floor (40.5% of threes this season) and rebound (his 15.0% total rebounding rate and 9.8 rebounds per 36 minutes this season are approximately what Kevin Garnett is pulling down).
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: celticpride07 on February 15, 2013, 10:49:40 PM
Omg I am just thinking about the celtics defense with KG dwight and bradley shutting up the wade bosh Lebron and ray ray!! What a mistake ray!
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 10:50:17 PM
Lol i'd do that trade with or without an assurance that Dwight would re-sign.  Dwight is a franchise player... top 5... the best big man in the game.  Absolutely a player you can build a contender around.  Rondo is an allstar point guard (top 5 point guard), who is injured for at least a year... and isn't someone you can really build a team around.

I'd roll the dice.  Best case scenario, Dwight gets healthy enough to win us a title this year.  Worst case scenario, he bails on us, KG and Pierce retire and we start the rebuild off in grand style... cap space and lotto dreams.

I see very little reason for the Lakers to do this, though.  They would be insane to trade a top 5 player for a guy who is injured.

Top 5? Not even close.

Have you seen this dude this year?

Are you aware how bad his injury was for a man of his profession at his size with his limited skill set? For a guy so dependent on athleticism it's bad.

But this is a rare case with Rondo's skill set and his injury also. It's a perfect storm for Boston to take this risk.

Seriously though. You will never see the Dwight of Orlando again. Maybe he can be that effective but his below the rim game will be a huge part of it and thus it will be in a different way.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 15, 2013, 10:51:05 PM
If it's Bass and Rondo + pick/Melo, my goodness -- how in the world do you pass on that?

Well worth the risk even with no promise of re-signing IMO.

I'd hate to despise Rondo...  but I would.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 10:54:50 PM
Lol even if Kobe and Dwight absolutely despised each other... you can't tell me a super-competitive player like Kobe Bryant would rather go to war with an injured point guard who can't even play until next year... over the best big man in the game.  The Lakers would effectively be punting this season and deciding to build around Rajon Rondo's mediocre future?  Come on...  that's absurd.

Man this team ain't doing anything. Not beating OKC and SA on the road in a 7 game series. Not beating the Clippers either. Especially when they just got Billups back and likely flip Bledsoe and Odom for a NICE player.

This team is done for this year.

Smart to look towards next year especially when the chances Dwight leave for nothing in return are greater then ever.

You really think a a first or second round exit is any different then lottery if Dwight walks?

I don't.

The Lakers are D.E.A.D for the 2012-13 season as far as a title is concerned and for an organization like the Lakers - when that is the case - the only next step is think abut next year and contention.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2013, 10:55:18 PM
Best I could come up with that I think would work for both teams

Howard, Peace, Blake

for

Rondo, Green, Bass, Sullinger, Barbosa, Collins


Boston post trade
Guards - Bradley, Lee, Terry, Blake
Wings - Pierce, Peace
Bigs - Garnett, Howard, Wilcox, Melo

C's clearly would need to add a big man free agent.  A guy like Kenyon Martin would make a lot more sense.  Add him to those guys and I think that is a team that could legitimately compete with the Heat if Howard was healthy.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 15, 2013, 10:55:56 PM
Lol i'd do that trade with or without an assurance that Dwight would re-sign.  Dwight is a franchise player... top 5... the best big man in the game.  Absolutely a player you can build a contender around.  Rondo is an allstar point guard (top 5 point guard), who is injured for at least a year... and isn't someone you can really build a team around.

I'd roll the dice.  Best case scenario, Dwight gets healthy enough to win us a title this year.  Worst case scenario, he bails on us, KG and Pierce retire and we start the rebuild off in grand style... cap space and lotto dreams.

I see very little reason for the Lakers to do this, though.  They would be insane to trade a top 5 player for a guy who is injured.

Top 5? Not even close.

Have you seen this dude this year?

Are you aware how bad his injury was for a man of his profession at his size with his limited skill set? For a guy so dependent on athleticism it's bad.

But this is a rare case with Rondo's skill set and his injury also. It's a perfect storm for Boston to take this risk.

Seriously though. You will never see the Dwight of Orlando again. Maybe he can be that effective but his below the rim game will be a huge part of it and thus it will be in a different way.

And yet he's scoring 16.3 points a game (5th among centers) at a 57.8 FG% rate (career average levels, and 4th in the league) and grabbing 11.8 rebounds a game (league leader), while blocking 2.3 times a game (5th in the league). Give me a list of centers that have a similar stat line.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 15, 2013, 10:58:03 PM
Someone needs to kill this rumor real quick.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JOMVP on February 15, 2013, 10:58:37 PM
To me there is no reason not to believe the Lakers are shopping Dwight. That whole team clearly just does not fit together, but couldn't they get a more sure-fire haul than a PG who is going to be coming off ACL surgery with no 100% guarentee of being the same player when he comes back, and there's also no guarentee he'll be back right at the beginning of next season.

The Lakers are gonna want young talent going forward, but they also are in a position to maximize Kobe's last years. They are taking a huge risk trading for a guy coming off an ACL tear. It just seems crazy for the Lakers to do.

The more I think about it for the Celtics, the more I'd come to accept it despite my pure hatred for Dwight Howard because it makes sense. The pairing of KG and Dwight down low would be scary for other teams.

I think I'd even do the deal without Dwight accepting an extension. If he didn't. You hope KG and Pierce retire as Celtics in the offseason or trade them and let the draft lottery rebuilding begin.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 15, 2013, 11:00:06 PM
Folks think this way...
Cs without Rondo are playnig better, and getting better score. Can you imagine, if Cs will add Howard, HOW STRONG THIS TEAM WILL BE?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: mctyson on February 15, 2013, 11:00:48 PM
Dwight Howard sucks.  End of rumor.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on February 15, 2013, 11:01:36 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOO way.....Howard is a bust....he had all that great training from olajuwan...or Ewing....and look at him....can only dunk...big deal, he is 7 feet....he adds very little....look at that team WITH him now...and you want to give one of THE BEST PG's in the league to the LAKERS.....you've GOT to be KIDDING...just sign kenyon martin and west...that will be good enough.....Howard is no improvement at all....and most of you that are FOR it...said all along you wanted KG at center.....waffling again are ya.....some of us remember....
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 15, 2013, 11:03:13 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOO way.....Howard is a bust....he had all that great training from olajuwan...or Ewing....and look at him....can only dunk...big deal, he is 7 feet....he adds very little....look at that team WITH him now...and you want to give one of THE BEST PG's in the league to the LAKERS.....you've GOT to be KIDDING...just sign kenyon martin and west...that will be good enough.....Howard is no improvement at all....and most of you that are FOR it...said all along you wanted KG at center.....waffling again are ya.....some of us remember....

You can make the same argument about the Celtics WITH Rondo, and how they're performing WITHOUT Rondo...
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 11:03:25 PM
Lol i'd do that trade with or without an assurance that Dwight would re-sign.  Dwight is a franchise player... top 5... the best big man in the game.  Absolutely a player you can build a contender around.  Rondo is an allstar point guard (top 5 point guard), who is injured for at least a year... and isn't someone you can really build a team around.

I'd roll the dice.  Best case scenario, Dwight gets healthy enough to win us a title this year.  Worst case scenario, he bails on us, KG and Pierce retire and we start the rebuild off in grand style... cap space and lotto dreams.

I see very little reason for the Lakers to do this, though.  They would be insane to trade a top 5 player for a guy who is injured.

Top 5? Not even close.

Have you seen this dude this year?

Are you aware how bad his injury was for a man of his profession at his size with his limited skill set? For a guy so dependent on athleticism it's bad.

But this is a rare case with Rondo's skill set and his injury also. It's a perfect storm for Boston to take this risk.

Seriously though. You will never see the Dwight of Orlando again. Maybe he can be that effective but his below the rim game will be a huge part of it and thus it will be in a different way.

And yet he's scoring 16.3 points a game (5th among centers) at a 57.8 FG% rate (career average levels, and 4th in the league) and grabbing 11.8 rebounds a game (league leader), while blocking 2.3 times a game (5th in the league). Give me a list of centers that have a similar stat line.

It is amazing, but is it top five in the NBA and can you build around it?

Don't think so.

However with the acquisition, you might be able to steal a title this year. Plus it might only cost you by moving a guy, who might be seriously compromised with his own serious injury, and a bad contract in Bass.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: daveh51292 on February 15, 2013, 11:03:35 PM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 15, 2013, 11:05:48 PM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.

Nicely done! But many here always thought Dwight was hot...er...you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 11:06:14 PM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.

TP
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 15, 2013, 11:07:52 PM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.
I can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on February 15, 2013, 11:15:22 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOO way.....Howard is a bust....he had all that great training from olajuwan...or Ewing....and look at him....can only dunk...big deal, he is 7 feet....he adds very little....look at that team WITH him now...and you want to give one of THE BEST PG's in the league to the LAKERS.....you've GOT to be KIDDING...just sign kenyon martin and west...that will be good enough.....Howard is no improvement at all....and most of you that are FOR it...said all along you wanted KG at center.....waffling again are ya.....some of us remember....

You can make the same argument about the Celtics WITH Rondo, and how they're performing WITHOUT Rondo...
you probably need to add more to make sense...to me anyway.....i do not care for dwight....he has added little to the lakers...rondo adds much more...in the recent past...and the things some do not like about him now, again come back to this person who is supposed to be a COACH...the coach runs the team...i coach/player and i run how it gets done....my pg doesn't walk the ball up, or hold onto it too long....rondo leads the league in assists...or did.....his shot improved, he cuts slashes, scores..REBOUNDS...he was our #1 rebounder for the longest time.....remember any of this...??? WHO runs with rondo....no one....the last person that did was TA....and bradley....it was just going to get good....rondo and brad together was the thing we needed....but did doc use them together much...nooooo..howard is a ball hog, and does little if he doesn't get it.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 11:16:54 PM
Lol if Howard and Bass don't play on Wednesday...  :D
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 15, 2013, 11:17:24 PM
Quote
"Mitch Kupchak strongly denied the trade report in comments to ESPN's Chris Broussard.

'I haven't talked to Danny Ainge in weeks' Kupchak said. 'I made the statement a week or 2 ago that we're not going to trade Dwight Howard and that hasn't changed.'

Kupchak also said that he hasn't spoken with anyone else within the Celtics' organization."

Forget it guys. Move on.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 15, 2013, 11:18:11 PM
Quote
can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

Ouch.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 15, 2013, 11:31:30 PM
Quote
can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

Ouch.
If you believe the several rumors, that's how they reported it.  Warriors turned us down and the Lakers turned us down... obviously the Hornets didn't want Rondo for Chris Paul either... and FYI, it's now coming out that the Lakers and Celtics may have indeed talked... a few weeks ago when Rondo was still healthy.  I bet the Celtics initiated it and it got shot down.

There's absolutely no way the Lakers would give up the best big in the league for a point guard who is injured for a year. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 15, 2013, 11:43:01 PM
Like I said.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=8953762
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: triboy16f on February 15, 2013, 11:44:21 PM
I think this trade has legs. Nobody is admitting to anything. Or maybe Mitch will call Danny and ask him "hey did you hear about this rumor" and in the end both would say, hey it would actually be a good deal wouldn't it? i would laugh it that happened

I would jump on this trade. KG even if he retires at the end of this year, would train DH to play like a man for once.

DH playing like a real man, would be scary.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 15, 2013, 11:46:29 PM
Quote
can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

Ouch.
If you believe the several rumors, that's how they reported it.  Warriors turned us down and the Lakers turned us down... obviously the Hornets didn't want Rondo for Chris Paul either... and FYI, it's now coming out that the Lakers and Celtics may have indeed talked... a few weeks ago when Rondo was still healthy.  I bet the Celtics initiated it and it got shot down.

There's absolutely no way the Lakers would give up the best big in the league for a point guard who is injured for a year.

Just to correct you slightly, Rondo will be out approximately 6-7 months. It was a partial tear. He should be ready for camp and the start of the season.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 15, 2013, 11:47:09 PM
I think this trade has legs. Nobody is admitting to anything. Or maybe Mitch will call Danny and ask him "hey did you hear about this rumor" and in the end both would say, hey it would actually be a good deal wouldn't it? i would laugh it that happened

I would jump on this trade. KG even if he retires at the end of this year, would train DH to play like a man for once.

DH playing like a real man, would be scary.
they talked before rondo got injured and destroyed what little trade value he had. 

The lakers could get a lot more for HOward than an injured point guard.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: OsirusCeltics on February 15, 2013, 11:48:14 PM
Judging by the way Danny operates, I have no doubt that this rumor is true
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: celticslove on February 15, 2013, 11:49:31 PM
Folks think this way...
Cs without Rondo are playnig better, and getting better score. Can you imagine, if Cs will add Howard, HOW STRONG THIS TEAM WILL BE?

I can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

yeah totally agree with these statements. let's do this if it's true.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: byennie on February 15, 2013, 11:52:30 PM
The only thing that makes this modestly plausible to me, is that Howard is going to be a FA. If the Lakers really believe he's gone, Rondo as the basis for a deal may very well be the best thing out there. We could potentially add Bradley, Sullinger or picks.

Rondo, Bass + 1st rounder?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: LilRip on February 15, 2013, 11:58:37 PM
lol, i remember posting this trade idea (not as a thread, but as a reply to the multiple trade threads here) some while back.

It just makes sense to me. A star for a star. C's need a big man who can rebound and block shots. Lakers need a PG who can defend other PGs. It would've made sense, especially a month ago. Kobe loves Rondo. Dwight is non-committal about resigning in the off-season. For them, i'd think getting Rondo is a pretty sweet deal. I don't remember what Orlando got for Dwight, but i don't think it was close to getting someone of Rondo's caliber.

Of course there are still hurdles to getting things done: 1) Rondo out for the year (so how will he come back next year?); and 2) Gasol out for the year (so who will play as their center this year?). This is in addition to the initial hurdles that were already there: 1) That they're the Lakers and we're the Celtics; 2) What do the Lakers do with Nash?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: biggs on February 16, 2013, 12:02:06 AM
 This rumor is brilliant!  And I'll tell you why-  even if this has zero legs at all it gives Rondo trade value again
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jamala22 on February 16, 2013, 12:02:44 AM
Quote
can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

Ouch.
If you believe the several rumors, that's how they reported it.  Warriors turned us down and the Lakers turned us down... obviously the Hornets didn't want Rondo for Chris Paul either... and FYI, it's now coming out that the Lakers and Celtics may have indeed talked... a few weeks ago when Rondo was still healthy.  I bet the Celtics initiated it and it got shot down.

There's absolutely no way the Lakers would give up the best big in the league for a point guard who is injured for a year.

Just to correct you slightly, Rondo will be out approximately 6-7 months. It was a partial tear. He should be ready for camp and the start of the season.


They did surgery on it, it's going to be the typical ACL time frame.  8 months at the absolute earliest (Think Adrian Peterson).  I rehab these every day and have had 2 done on myself.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: triboy16f on February 16, 2013, 12:05:46 AM
I think this trade has legs. Nobody is admitting to anything. Or maybe Mitch will call Danny and ask him "hey did you hear about this rumor" and in the end both would say, hey it would actually be a good deal wouldn't it? i would laugh it that happened

I would jump on this trade. KG even if he retires at the end of this year, would train DH to play like a man for once.

DH playing like a real man, would be scary.
they talked before rondo got injured and destroyed what little trade value he had. 

The lakers could get a lot more for HOward than an injured point guard.

This trade has legs part 2 if Mitch approaches Danny again.

Before the injury, the lakers had a big adv, getting rondo who is signed for a few more years for basically a star player (DH) that will be a FA after this season.

NOW bc of the injury (just a partial tear) and the celts so close being one piece away from becoming favorites, they may just take the risk and bring in howard just to play for rest of the year. Danny knows the celts are playing better without Rondo, so losing him and getting cap space relieve worse case scenario for next year would be ok anyways.

The lakers will get Gasol back and Howard has proven to be a nothing for them. Actually make things worse in the locker room. Kobe has repeatedly stated how much he likes rondo as a player.

So if this trade does happen

To Lakers: Rondo + Bass + Melo
To Bos: Dwight Howard + Jordan Hill

2013 best case for Bos: Win it all , DH learns to play like a man from kg's influence and signs 4 year deal. Jordan Hill comeback from injury 100 percent and becomes an important piece off the bench

Worse case: Celts don't win. DH leaves for FA but Jordan Hill comesback healthy. Plus with capspace avail go after some key FA's

2013 best case for Lakers: Howard's lose means nothing. Rondo is 100 percent for 2014 and you get a dynamic backcourt duo in kobe and rondo.

Worse case: Rondo comesback not 100 percent in 2014 or clashes with Kobe. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: droopdog7 on February 16, 2013, 12:06:55 AM
Anyone who wouldn't trade rondo for Howard is nuts.  You do it every day of the week and twice in Sunday. 

Of course, no way in hell rondo (even if healthy) could bring back Howard in a trade.  So no reason to entertain this idea very long.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on February 16, 2013, 12:09:10 AM
Please. This is beyond stupid. Dwight Howard is a knucklehead who really doesn't care about winning. Not interested.

Ditto. And on top of that, because of the fact that Rondo makes significantly less than Howard, we'd have to give up a bunch in addition to Rondo to acquire said knucklehead. No thanks.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: triboy16f on February 16, 2013, 12:11:02 AM
Anyone who wouldn't trade rondo for Howard is nuts.  You do it every day of the week and twice in Sunday. 

Of course, no way in hell rondo (even if healthy) could bring back Howard in a trade.  So no reason to entertain this idea very long.

pre Orl howard no, but Laker Howard yes , esp if Rondo was still healthy.

The guys value has gone quite a bit. From franchise to a wimp. Nobody is going to give up a ton to get him now. If he doesn't reform with the lakers soon , you may see another Gilbert Arenas part 2 soon
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 16, 2013, 12:17:08 AM
Quote
can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

Ouch.
If you believe the several rumors, that's how they reported it.  Warriors turned us down and the Lakers turned us down... obviously the Hornets didn't want Rondo for Chris Paul either... and FYI, it's now coming out that the Lakers and Celtics may have indeed talked... a few weeks ago when Rondo was still healthy.  I bet the Celtics initiated it and it got shot down.

There's absolutely no way the Lakers would give up the best big in the league for a point guard who is injured for a year.

Just to correct you slightly, Rondo will be out approximately 6-7 months. It was a partial tear. He should be ready for camp and the start of the season.


They did surgery on it, it's going to be the typical ACL time frame.  8 months at the absolute earliest (Think Adrian Peterson).  I rehab these every day and have had 2 done on myself.

Everybody including ainge is saying rondo should be ready for camp. I understand the normal timeframe and that peterson was back in september after a late january op, but everyone is saying he will be at least moving about the court at camp. I will believe them.
Title: Re: Rondo for Dwight?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 16, 2013, 12:23:36 AM
Please. This is beyond stupid. Dwight Howard is a knucklehead who really doesn't care about winning. Not interested.

Ditto. And on top of that, because of the fact that Rondo makes significantly less than Howard, we'd have to give up a bunch in addition to Rondo to acquire said knucklehead. No thanks.

Rondo + Bass gets it done salary wise. You can add Barbosa too if needed to free up some money.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: The Rondo Show on February 16, 2013, 12:43:25 AM
As much as I'd like this to happen. I just can't see it realistically.

I'm an absolutely huge Rondo fan (as you can tell by my name). That said, Dwight is one of the 3 or 4 players in the NBA right now. If this is an actual possibility, make it happen Danny
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: The Rondo Show on February 16, 2013, 12:46:23 AM
The only thing that makes this modestly plausible to me, is that Howard is going to be a FA. If the Lakers really believe he's gone, Rondo as the basis for a deal may very well be the best thing out there. We could potentially add Bradley, Sullinger or picks.

Rondo, Bass + 1st rounder?

Good point 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticSooner on February 16, 2013, 12:48:31 AM
Not sure that I buy this other than a possible smokescreen. C's would be sitting pretty if this trade was made though. These kind of trades you don't turn down but losing Rondo would hurt.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: KGs Knee on February 16, 2013, 01:00:19 AM
I really hope Dwight's back isn't going to be a long term issue.  Back injuries scare me more than knee injuries do.

I seem to recall hearing about an interview in which Dwight said he still gets numbness in his legs.  That's concerning.

Plus, I'm not sure Dwight has the "proper" mentality to be a Celtic.

Maybe....
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 16, 2013, 01:00:58 AM
Rondo for howard? Really? Where do i sign?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: btabakin on February 16, 2013, 01:04:27 AM
This trade actually makes sense for both teams. The only way to beat the Heat is with dominant bigs. Howard and KG down low could get that done.

For the Lakers,they get an all-star PG who Kobe loves. As Kobe ages, Rondo can get him easy shots and scoring chances and Rondo can be their franchise cornerstone going forward. If the second player was Jeff Green this would be even better for the Lakers as it gives them another shooter to spread the floor to run D'Antoni's system.

The fact that everyone is denying this so strongly makes it seem even more legitimate.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Atzar on February 16, 2013, 01:06:46 AM
For me, it depends.  If we could get some kind of assurance that Howard's athleticism will return and that he would like to play in Boston beyond this year, then I'd definitely do this.  But I'm not willing to give up Rondo for a rental. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: btabakin on February 16, 2013, 01:08:39 AM
For me, it depends.  If we could get some kind of assurance that Howard's athleticism will return and that he would like to play in Boston beyond this year, then I'd definitely do this.  But I'm not willing to give up Rondo for a rental.

That's the key here. But if we trade for Howard we would be able to give him an extra year and more money. Dwight wants to be the focus of attention and he could get that in Boston going forward. If he gave Danny a verbal guarantee I do this automatically.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Galeto on February 16, 2013, 01:20:16 AM
It would be priceless to see Kobe and Rondo try to play with each other.  I don't buy for a minute that Kobe would love to play with Rondo.  I believe it when he says he respects Rondo immensely and all that but these two are both extremely ball dominant ball handlers.  Their games also do not complement each other.  Kobe creates a lot of open spot up jumpers for his teammates and likes to pound the ball a lot.  He's going to dislike not having a spot up shooting option in Rondo and the lack of space Rondo's presence creates.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 16, 2013, 01:35:05 AM
For me, it depends.  If we could get some kind of assurance that Howard's athleticism will return and that he would like to play in Boston beyond this year, then I'd definitely do this.  But I'm not willing to give up Rondo for a rental.

That's the key here. But if we trade for Howard we would be able to give him an extra year and more money. Dwight wants to be the focus of attention and he could get that in Boston going forward. If he gave Danny a verbal guarantee I do this automatically.

Verbal guarantees from dwight howard are worth nothing.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: btabakin on February 16, 2013, 01:45:46 AM
For me, it depends.  If we could get some kind of assurance that Howard's athleticism will return and that he would like to play in Boston beyond this year, then I'd definitely do this.  But I'm not willing to give up Rondo for a rental.

That's the key here. But if we trade for Howard we would be able to give him an extra year and more money. Dwight wants to be the focus of attention and he could get that in Boston going forward. If he gave Danny a verbal guarantee I do this automatically.

Verbal guarantees from dwight howard are worth nothing.

I agree. But sometimes you have to roll the dice. If the trade even occurs (I doubt it will), it makes us better in the short term and long term.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 16, 2013, 01:53:26 AM
The lakers would be smart to give up for this year. They are struggling to even make the playoffs. There's a 1 percent chance they win a championship this year. To let howard walk for nothing when you could get a player of rondos caliber right now?

That would be stupid in my opinion. Howard is too much of a diva to commit to a team that is losing. He has made it clear he wants to win and he wants to win NOW. I think there's a very slim chance he resigns with the lakers.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Galeto on February 16, 2013, 02:36:24 AM
Even though Howard's been a shell of himself this year (a shell who's still been pretty good mind you) and even if he ends up bolting, it might be worth it just to see Howard and KG team up on defense together before KG retires.  I can't even wrap my mind around how awesome it would be to have KG and Dwight on the back end surrounded by a slew of great perimeter defenders.  I think the Celtics without Rondo are the best defensive team in the NBA.  In many respects they're just as good as the 2008 defense, which was one of the best defenses of all time but the rebounding woes keeps them from reaching that level.  Howard would fix that and more. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: chambers on February 16, 2013, 02:52:51 AM
I thought Nash had a no trade clause?
Why would they do this and what would they do with Nash?
Move Nash and Gasol for someone?
Or are we looking at Rondo+Pierce+Bass for Howard+Nash?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 16, 2013, 03:11:23 AM
This trade actually makes sense for both teams. The only way to beat the Heat is with dominant bigs. Howard and KG down low could get that done.

For the Lakers,they get an all-star PG who Kobe loves. As Kobe ages, Rondo can get him easy shots and scoring chances and Rondo can be their franchise cornerstone going forward. If the second player was Jeff Green this would be even better for the Lakers as it gives them another shooter to spread the floor to run D'Antoni's system.

The fact that everyone is denying this so strongly makes it seem even more legitimate.

If this trade happens there is a 90% change KG will retire after the season ends, and if he does then there's a good chance Pierce will go with him.

Dwight has shown he is incapable of showing loyalty for any team, period, so the chance of keeping him after this season is slim. 

You would pretty much be renting Howard for one season, and throwing away your two hall of famers in the process.

I'm very 50/50 on this deal right now, even if Rondo is injured and does have his personality issues, those issues are minuscule compared to the ones Howard brings. 

If it involved sending out any of out consistent poerces or young talent (Terry, Green, Lee, Sullinger, Bradley) as well there is no way in hell I'd do it.

Rondo for Bass I'd think about it, but if that happens I think we move into a new era instantly, because I don't see KG sticking around if any of the big three core is traded.

The only hope at all in this deal is that MAYBE Howard would respect Doc as a coach, and maybe he would help get through to him mentally.  I think of Doc, Popovich and Phil Jackson as probably the only three coaches in the league right now who might have a chance of that.  Howard probably gets what he wants because this would become his team, and he'd be a #1 star on a team that has a history of winning and filled with young talent.

If there is ANY big in the league that can take over KG's legacy on both ends of the floor (especially defensively) it's Howard IF you can get through to his head and if he can stay injury free...given Boston's histroy if injuries that last part worries me. 

Very torn on this...Rondo+Bass for Howard you need to think about it, and Howard even if he doesn't work out would be a top tier trade chip.

I do think that AB, Lee, Pierce, KG, Howard would make a pretty elite lineup this year if Dwight can stay healthy both in body and mind, but i dunno...this guy really rubs me the wrong way. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JSD on February 16, 2013, 03:20:31 AM
Quote
“You don’t want Rondo? Send him my way,” Kobe continued. “I love everything about him. Everything. I love his attitude, I love his chippiness, his edge, his intellect, his know-it-allness. All of it. That’s what makes championship players.

“What guard have you seen at his size that will get you 18 assists, 17 boards and 20 points all in one game? That’s unheard of. I love that kid. I always make a point of talking to him during All-Star [Weekend]. He’s one of my favorites.”

Kobe on Rondo 02/07/13

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/8924289/kobe-bryant-feels-pain-rajon-rondo-boston-celtics

(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0206/bos_g_bryant-rondo_mb_600.jpg)
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: JSD on February 16, 2013, 03:35:47 AM
I'm shocked at how many Laker fans' love the idea of this trade.

Can you add some of their comments? Would love to see their reaction and lust for rondo.

I called it! I knew they would turn on Dwight!

Here ya go:

Quote
by stunnar0b on Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:41 pm

I would love me some rondo on the Lakers, his ruthlessness and competitiveness is on another level but the dude cant shoot (consistently) to save his life, and if you pair him with Howard your only asking for trouble.

Quote
by myersia on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:02 pm

YES! They are considering trading Dwight! FINALLY!

Quote
by Kilroy on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:04 pm

Rondo isn't healthy right now, and he won't play before the playoffs. And I'm still cool with that.

I don't think we're a playoff team with Dwight anyway. This season is done.

And Rondo seemed to hardly know he was injured, so hopefully, he'll recover quickly.

Quote
by myersia on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:12 pm

RONDOOOOOOOO! Nash off the bench as our 6th man. 4th quarter lineup: Rondo/Nash/Kobe/Clark/Pau


http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=19&sid=52445c54e1165063d9876cd1698a350f


Quote
I know it's giving up Dwight but if you really wanna get best value back it's Rajon Rondo no question Lakers get burned every [dang] year by an opposing PG and with Rondo he will finally fill that void offensively and defensively.  And with all that cap space in 2014 Rondo would be the only person on the Lakers roster and it could be easier to attract free agents knowing they will have an elite point guard that can score, drop dimes, and rebound.


Quote
Consider this:  celts would have Dwight for playoffs this year.  If they get 6 seed could avoid MIA until ECF.

They would sweeten pot to pull this off and make one last run with KG and Pierce.


Quote
Rondo for Dwight? Why would Boston wanna help us out like that?


Quote
Rondo is a walking triple double. Do it mitch. #nuff said.

http://lakernation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/61582-dwight-for-rondo-has-been-discussed-by-lakersceltics/page__st__20



Obviously there are some posters who do not like the idea, but I would say 60-70% of Laker nation is in strong favor of this.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 16, 2013, 04:10:33 AM
HELL TO THE N-O!

Are we even certain that Dwight is going to resign with Boston if this rumored idea goes thru?

What about his lack of competitiveness? Him throwing teammates under the bus when the situation doesnt bode well for his liking?

Rondo maybe an enigma, but mentally and SALARY wise, Howard cant touch him. Not Dwight please. I get that he's the best Center in the NBA, but God I don't want that drama in Boston.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 16, 2013, 08:27:39 AM
Howard has shown his true colors in the Laker debacle, I would not touch him with a ten foot pole.

Laker fans know Dwight = lockeroom cancer.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jamala22 on February 16, 2013, 09:35:53 AM
Quote
can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

Ouch.
If you believe the several rumors, that's how they reported it.  Warriors turned us down and the Lakers turned us down... obviously the Hornets didn't want Rondo for Chris Paul either... and FYI, it's now coming out that the Lakers and Celtics may have indeed talked... a few weeks ago when Rondo was still healthy.  I bet the Celtics initiated it and it got shot down.

There's absolutely no way the Lakers would give up the best big in the league for a point guard who is injured for a year.

Just to correct you slightly, Rondo will be out approximately 6-7 months. It was a partial tear. He should be ready for camp and the start of the season.


They did surgery on it, it's going to be the typical ACL time frame.  8 months at the absolute earliest (Think Adrian Peterson).  I rehab these every day and have had 2 done on myself.

Everybody including ainge is saying rondo should be ready for camp. I understand the normal timeframe and that peterson was back in september after a late january op, but everyone is saying he will be at least moving about the court at camp. I will believe them.

Being ready to participate in parts of camp is completely different then being ready to play in a game (uncontrolled environment).  After 4 months he's going to feel like he can do just about anything, it's all about giving that graft time to heal.  He'll take part in sections of camp, but won't be full go for at least 8 months.  Hopefully he'll surprise the heck out of me though.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 10:15:28 AM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.
I can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

  If anything this shows how foolish people were to take reported rumors as fact. Somehow the Lakers would discuss Dwight Howard for Rondo but the wouldn't consider trading an older, lesser player for him? Too funny.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Geo123 on February 16, 2013, 10:38:33 AM
Rondo for howard? Really? Where do i sign?

In fantsay land or on NBA 2K13.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 16, 2013, 10:39:43 AM
Folks think this way...
Cs without Rondo are playnig better, and getting better score. Can you imagine, if Cs will add Howard, HOW STRONG THIS TEAM WILL BE?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Redz on February 16, 2013, 10:44:15 AM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.
I can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

  If anything this shows how foolish people were to take reported rumors as fact. Somehow the Lakers would discuss Dwight Howard for Rondo but the wouldn't consider trading an older, lesser player for him? Too funny.
I think the rationalization fueling this is:

1) Lakers suck with him
2) he's damaged (we'll ignore the fact that the same can definitely be said for Rondo)
3) Kobe doesn't like him
4) He's a free agent after this season, and this season is lost, so let's deal him while we can still get something for him.

Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: karimb on February 16, 2013, 10:50:00 AM
Judging by these last 10 games, this trade could be great for us.  I just have a hard time seeing Howard as a Celtic and the thought of Rondo in a Lakers jersey makes me want to puke
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Sketch5 on February 16, 2013, 10:50:53 AM
A damaged Howard is still better than Collins right?

And if we can sign and trade Howard this summer if he doesn't want to stay we could get a couple nice pieces for him, especially if he has a ring...
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: hpantazo on February 16, 2013, 10:51:37 AM
Kobe and Rondo would be a scary duo.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 16, 2013, 10:59:35 AM
Howard is reported to arrived in Boston on a flying saucer.   
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: snively on February 16, 2013, 11:13:22 AM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.
I can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

  If anything this shows how foolish people were to take reported rumors as fact. Somehow the Lakers would discuss Dwight Howard for Rondo but the wouldn't consider trading an older, lesser player for him? Too funny.
I think the rationalization fueling this is:

1) Lakers suck with him
2) he's damaged (we'll ignore the fact that the same can definitely be said for Rondo)
3) Kobe doesn't like him
4) He's a free agent after this season, and this season is lost, so let's deal him while we can still get something for him.

I don't think the Lakers are willing to mail in the season just yet. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 11:14:57 AM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.
I can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

  If anything this shows how foolish people were to take reported rumors as fact. Somehow the Lakers would discuss Dwight Howard for Rondo but the wouldn't consider trading an older, lesser player for him? Too funny.
I think the rationalization fueling this is:

1) Lakers suck with him
2) he's damaged (we'll ignore the fact that the same can definitely be said for Rondo)
3) Kobe doesn't like him
4) He's a free agent after this season, and this season is lost, so let's deal him while we can still get something for him.

  I can definitely see why the Lakers might be exploring their options with Dwight. I'm just pointing out that they were rumored to be discussing trading him for a player I've been repeatedly been assured has little trade value around the league.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Chief Macho on February 16, 2013, 11:16:14 AM
it's interesting but it won't really have a chance since howard won't ever sign with boston. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: slamdunk on February 16, 2013, 11:41:33 AM
it's interesting but it won't really have a chance since howard won't ever sign with boston.

So Dwight will pass on an extra $30m to go elsewhere?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on February 16, 2013, 11:48:19 AM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that shoots half-court hook shots with a torn labrum? Yup. That shoud go over real smoothly here in Boston. This guy is a cancer please keep him away from the Celtics.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Chief Macho on February 16, 2013, 12:00:33 PM
it's interesting but it won't really have a chance since howard won't ever sign with boston.

So Dwight will pass on an extra $30m to go elsewhere?

valid point,  but it wouldn't surprise me.  he's been wanting to go to brooklyn or dallas for years now.  after what's happening to him now in laker land,  i think he could choose to make a little less in dallas.  taxes are better there?  we are talking about a guy that opted in last year and didn't tell his agent.   he's irrational.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Larry for 3 on February 16, 2013, 01:00:35 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that shoots half-court hook shots with a torn labrum? Yup. That shoud go over real smoothly here in Boston. This guy is a cancer please keep him away from the Celtics.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Dwight Howard should never and will never put on a Boston Celtics uniform, period. He's a perfect fit for the disaster that is the LA  Lakers. Keep him there.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 16, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 01:03:46 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 16, 2013, 01:06:00 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing
This player has also seen most teams he's been on crash and burn.

Also, Rondo has been an NBA all-defensive selection 4 times, if that's how you want to slice it.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 16, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

He also threw his team under the bus, quit on his team and whines a lot when the situation doesnt bode well with him.

He also hasnt shown the mental toughness and the grit and heart that A SUPERSTAR should have.

Not to mention he might not sign with Boston after the season.

BTW, you probably have not seen Rondo play in the Playoffs. He takes over games, not a really big of a deal.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: cman88 on February 16, 2013, 01:16:21 PM
Why anyone who loves the way guys like KG/Rondo play and their competitiveness. would want D.howard is beyond me. sure he has alot of talent he could utilize, but the guy is a JOKE.

what has any team he has been on accomplished? howard doesnt care about winning. he cares about attention...and thats why Kobe Hates him and no Nash...those guys aer competitors, play through injuries.

and howard is cleared by doctors to play and wants to sit out...meanwhile a guy like Rondo will play with a dislocated arm.

Howard is also as soft as a tissue...ive seen KG, Glen Davis, Perk just shut him down...and those are guys he has an advantage over..but you get a little physical with him and he wilts.

not to mention if you guys love a "team game" youll sure love hearing howard complain he doesnt get the ball enough

yes, the talent is there...but it wont be utilized..most likely Howard will dog it and be a cancer in the lockerroom like he has been in Orlando and now LA..and then jet for a team where he can be in the spotlight.

Howard has become a bigger joke than lebron IMO
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: RJ87 on February 16, 2013, 01:24:32 PM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.
I can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

  If anything this shows how foolish people were to take reported rumors as fact. Somehow the Lakers would discuss Dwight Howard for Rondo but the wouldn't consider trading an older, lesser player for him? Too funny.
I think the rationalization fueling this is:

1) Lakers suck with him
2) he's damaged (we'll ignore the fact that the same can definitely be said for Rondo)
3) Kobe doesn't like him
4) He's a free agent after this season, and this season is lost, so let's deal him while we can still get something for him.

  I can definitely see why the Lakers might be exploring their options with Dwight. I'm just pointing out that they were rumored to be discussing trading him for a player I've been repeatedly been assured has little trade value around the league.

I do love revisionist history. I mean, if your going to take rumors as fact, at least consider the whole rumor:

The only reason why we offered Rondo for Curry is because we were going to flip him to NOH for CP3. At the time, NOH and GS were talking CP3 but GS didn't want to move Curry for him.

With the Pau Gasol, those talks died down because LA asked for Rondo AND Brandon Bass and that was too much to give up.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 16, 2013, 01:53:09 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 16, 2013, 01:55:36 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

Maybe you should use your brain before saying, "What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing"! That's the craziest statement I've heard all season. Done nothing? You must be joking.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 16, 2013, 01:59:40 PM
Quote from: CelticConcourse

Maybe you should use your brain before saying, "What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing"!


I think you have to use more the brain kid...Do you see what I mention?? I told you Howard has been official 4 times the best defender of NBA. I am talking about achievements. What Rondo achieved? Tell me...
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: ejk3489 on February 16, 2013, 02:08:16 PM
Quote from: CelticConcourse

Maybe you should use your brain before saying, "What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing"!


I think you have to use more the brain kid...Do you see what I mention?? I told you Howard has been official 4 times the best defender of NBA. I am talking about achievements. What Rondo achieved? Tell me...

...

Quote
1× NBA Champion: 2008
4× NBA All-Star: 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
1× All-NBA Team:
   Third Team: 2012
4× NBA All-Defensive:
   First Team: 2010, 2011
   Second Team: 2009, 2012
NBA All-Rookie selection:
   Second team: 2007
NBA regular season leader:
   2010: most steals (189), most steals per game (2.3)
   2012: most assists per game (11.7), most triple-doubles (6)
NBA postseason leader:
   2008: most assists (172), most steals (45)
   2009: most assists (127), most triple-doubles (3)
   2010: most triple-doubles (2), most steals (46)
   2011: most triple-doubles (1)
   2012: most assists (227), most assists per game (11.9),   most triple-doubles (4)
Boston Celtics franchise records:
   Most assists in a single season: 794 (2009–10)
   Most steals in a single season: 189 (2009–10)
   Most assists in a playoff game: 20 (2010–11)
   Most assists per game (season): 11.7 (2011-12)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajon_Rondo#Awards_and_honors
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: More Banners on February 16, 2013, 02:08:54 PM
The deal makes sense for both sides.

Rondo hamstrings the teambuild by needing shooters and a primary scorer, with the later being hardest and most expensive.

A Dwight-team surrounded by journeyman shooters went to the Finals.

Our current lineup would be dominant with DH close to up to speed.  Imagine simply KG and DH splitting time during the regular season.  Holy crap.  Then side-by-side in the playoffs?  With PIERCE at SF? 

The best front court in history...better than Bird, McHale, and Chief.

With Bass, Sully, and Green to rely on off the bench.

And the 3-guard rotation we have now.

It puts us right up there in the running this year for sure, if DH can do anything remotely well.

And going forward post-KG, Pierce, JET,

We still look pretty good with DH instead of Rondo.

Swap of the divas.

Gives LA something to look forward to, solves Gasol/Dwight problem, and puts a buffer/ball handler between Kobe and Gasol as well.  Rondo/Kobe/Gasol would be nice for a few years.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 02:11:47 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

  Too funny. Again, your claim that Rondo's never done "anything" explains most of your posts. He's been on multiple all-defense teams. He' led the league in assists. He's among the career leaders in playoff triple doubles and he's been a dominant player in the postseason. You must have missed all that.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 16, 2013, 02:28:55 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

  Too funny. Again, your claim that Rondo's never done "anything" explains most of your posts. He's been on multiple all-defense teams. He' led the league in assists. He's among the career leaders in playoff triple doubles and he's been a dominant player in the postseason. You must have missed all that.

I do not who is funny. I am asking you about achivments. You continuing not to give any arguments. Only bla bla bla. The only partial achievement or Rondo is the NBA title of 2008, where Rondo is the less indicated (remember the big merits of KG/PP/Cassell and Ray)
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: tonyto3690 on February 16, 2013, 02:31:37 PM
I was the biggest Howard/Rondo homers ever the past couple years.

This year I'm very lukewarm on both of them.  That being said, it makes a lot of sense for both teams.  Kobe loves Rondo and having a PG who wants nothing but to get him easy shots would be perfect for him.  Celtics obviously desperately need a big and Howard is as good as they get and would allow KG to slide back to the 4 where he is more comfortable spreading the floor.  I assume Bass would have to be included to help with the money, not sure who else.  Bass would fit well in that system as well and give them depth witch they desperately need.


Lee-Bradley-Pierce-KG-Howard
Terry-Green-Collins

Obviously would want a real PG picked up in FA along with another big, but that starting five's defense would be insane.  Switch Pierce with Green and it's scary how good that defense would be.  Teams would struggle to break 80.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: hpantazo on February 16, 2013, 02:32:23 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

  Too funny. Again, your claim that Rondo's never done "anything" explains most of your posts. He's been on multiple all-defense teams. He' led the league in assists. He's among the career leaders in playoff triple doubles and he's been a dominant player in the postseason. You must have missed all that.

I do not who is funny. I am asking you about achivments. You continuing not to give any arguments. Only bla bla bla. The only partial achievement or Rondo is the NBA title of 2008, where Rondo is the less indicated (remember the big merits of KG/PP/Cassell and Ray)



Cassell didn't do much. Posey, House,  and Powe certainly did though
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 16, 2013, 02:41:32 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

  Too funny. Again, your claim that Rondo's never done "anything" explains most of your posts. He's been on multiple all-defense teams. He' led the league in assists. He's among the career leaders in playoff triple doubles and he's been a dominant player in the postseason. You must have missed all that.

I do not who is funny. I am asking you about achivments. You continuing not to give any arguments. Only bla bla bla. The only partial achievement or Rondo is the NBA title of 2008, where Rondo is the less indicated (remember the big merits of KG/PP/Cassell and Ray)



Cassell didn't do much. Posey, House,  and Powe certainly did though

You right. All guy mentioning did his great job, but Cassel used more form the experience like a great PG. My idea is that the title of 2008 was not a drastic Rondos achievement. Rondo gave  a modest achievement on 2008
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 03:02:52 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

  Too funny. Again, your claim that Rondo's never done "anything" explains most of your posts. He's been on multiple all-defense teams. He' led the league in assists. He's among the career leaders in playoff triple doubles and he's been a dominant player in the postseason. You must have missed all that.

I do not who is funny. I am asking you about achivments. You continuing not to give any arguments. Only bla bla bla. The only partial achievement or Rondo is the NBA title of 2008, where Rondo is the less indicated (remember the big merits of KG/PP/Cassell and Ray)

  Your whole "bla bla bla" thing is as childish as anything in the thread. The achievements I listed were similar to the achievements that you listed for Dwight, which had nothing to do with titles. And your claim that Cassell had more to do with the 2008 title than Rondo is absurd.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: eugen on February 16, 2013, 03:45:33 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

  Too funny. Again, your claim that Rondo's never done "anything" explains most of your posts. He's been on multiple all-defense teams. He' led the league in assists. He's among the career leaders in playoff triple doubles and he's been a dominant player in the postseason. You must have missed all that.

I do not who is funny. I am asking you about achivments. You continuing not to give any arguments. Only bla bla bla. The only partial achievement or Rondo is the NBA title of 2008, where Rondo is the less indicated (remember the big merits of KG/PP/Cassell and Ray)

  Your whole "bla bla bla" thing is as childish as anything in the thread. The achievements I listed were similar to the achievements that you listed for Dwight, which had nothing to do with titles. And your claim that Cassell had more to do with the 2008 title than Rondo is absurd.

I am not used to spend my time fighting for nothing with kids. But...You do not understand what does mean personal achievement (MVP, best scoring player, MVP of Finals, Best offensive player, best defensive player, all star appearances)
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 04:33:51 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

  Too funny. Again, your claim that Rondo's never done "anything" explains most of your posts. He's been on multiple all-defense teams. He' led the league in assists. He's among the career leaders in playoff triple doubles and he's been a dominant player in the postseason. You must have missed all that.

I do not who is funny. I am asking you about achivments. You continuing not to give any arguments. Only bla bla bla. The only partial achievement or Rondo is the NBA title of 2008, where Rondo is the less indicated (remember the big merits of KG/PP/Cassell and Ray)

  Your whole "bla bla bla" thing is as childish as anything in the thread. The achievements I listed were similar to the achievements that you listed for Dwight, which had nothing to do with titles. And your claim that Cassell had more to do with the 2008 title than Rondo is absurd.

I am not used to spend my time fighting for nothing with kids. But...You do not understand what does mean personal achievement (MVP, best scoring player, MVP of Finals, Best offensive player, best defensive player, all star appearances)

  You listed personal achievements of Howard, I listed personal achievements of Rondo (although you never said anything about what kind of achievements you are listing). I don't think calling me names somehow makes your arguments more coherent or persuasive.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: blink on February 16, 2013, 04:56:09 PM
Im not the biggest Rondo guy but to move him for a player that...

...this player has beenn 4 times best defensive player of NBA...What Rondo has done so far?? Nothing

  One would assume this is your first year following the Celts.

 Grow up man! I was giving you arguments and you making bla bla bla. If you does not make objections based ON ARGUMENTS, PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO MY OPINION, BEACUSE I AM NOT INTERESTED TO WASTE MY TIME WITH PEOPLE WITH CHILDISH BEHIVOR. The forums in general are not for kids, but for people who use the brain before writing...

We all could make a big list of Rondo's accomplishments, but since we are all so "childish" and just "kids" I guess you probably wouldn't even read the list.

Cmon man, everything you just wrote you should be writing it to yourself.  "what has Rondo done?" you mean that isn't childish or trollish?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Yogi on February 16, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
I have a serious question for you guys.  In this day and age where players are getting coaches and GM's fired...  What other GM and coach in the league defend their player from made up media attacks and trade rumors like Ainge and Doc have done with Rondo?  What other star player says he wants to play in this organization for the rest of his career and genuinely means it?  The list consists of Kobe, Garnett, Pierce, Duncan and Nowitzki.  That's the type of player Rondo is. 

Players like Howard, Williams, Melo, Cousins, Lebron, Jennings etc. are getting their coaches and GM's fired.  Here we have a player who is absolutely beloved by his GM and Coach who show unwavering support no matter what ridiculous things the media makes up to attack Rondo. 

1) Rondo needs to be restrained from coaches and GMs from playing on dislocated elbows and partially torn ACLs.  Howard chooses not to play after being medically cleared from a torn shoulder when his team desperately needs to win. 

2) Rondo has NEVER expressed the desire to play ANYWHERE but BOSTON.  Howard picks a new team every week. 

3) Rondo is a winner.  Howard is a clown. 

4) Rondo has the HIGHEST IQ in the NBA.  Howard relies way too much on his athleticism as this season has clearly demonstrated. 

5) Rondo is generally beloved in the locker room.  Bradley has said Rondo went to the trouble of showing up to his D league games during the season to support him.  Dooling has nothing but the highest praises for him.  Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett have trusted the future of this team in his hands.  Jeff Green pointed to him as the reason for taking less money to come back to Boston.  Courtney Lee has said Rondo was the reason he signed in Boston.  Jason Terry has called him the best point guard in the league and the teams leader on multiple occasions.  Perk's relationship with Rondo needs no elaboration.  His greatest rivals like Lebron and Kobe have openly expressed their admiration for him in glowing terms.  Players like OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay and Josh Smith have publicly stated that they would love to play with Rondo. 

The ONLY people who seem to have a problem with Rondo are the media and gullible fans.  Even Ray Allen has only pointed to the system and being snubbed by Ainge as the reason he left.  He explicitly stated Rondo had nothing to do with his decision.  Why would he throw the coach and the organization under the bus but not Rondo whom he supposedly dislikes?

There are three people who are better than Rondo in the world when it comes to winning a game of basketball (at this point in time). 
1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Chris Paul

Every year the gap between those three and Rondo shrinks.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 16, 2013, 05:23:08 PM
I have a serious question for you guys.  In this day and age where players are getting coaches and GM's fired...  What other GM and coach in the league defend their player from made up media attacks and trade rumors like Ainge and Doc have done with Rondo?  What other star player says he wants to play in this organization for the rest of his career and genuinely means it?  The list consists of Kobe, Garnett, Pierce, Duncan and Nowitzki.  That's the type of player Rondo is. 

Players like Howard, Williams, Melo, Cousins, Lebron, Jennings etc. are getting their coaches and GM's fired.  Here we have a player who is absolutely beloved by his GM and Coach who show unwavering support no matter what ridiculous things the media makes up to attack Rondo. 

1) Rondo needs to be restrained from coaches and GMs from playing on dislocated elbows and partially torn ACLs.  Howard chooses not to play after being medically cleared from a torn shoulder when his team desperately needs to win. 

2) Rondo has NEVER expressed the desire to play ANYWHERE but BOSTON.  Howard picks a new team every week. 

3) Rondo is a winner.  Howard is a clown. 

4) Rondo has the HIGHEST IQ in the NBA.  Howard relies way too much on his athleticism as this season has clearly demonstrated. 

5) Rondo is generally beloved in the locker room.  Bradley has said Rondo went to the trouble of showing up to his D league games during the season to support him.  Dooling has nothing but the highest praises for him.  Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett have trusted the future of this team in his hands.  Jeff Green pointed to him as the reason for taking less money to come back to Boston.  Courtney Lee has said Rondo was the reason he signed in Boston.  Jason Terry has called him the best point guard in the league and the teams leader on multiple occasions.  Perk's relationship with Rondo needs no elaboration.  His greatest rivals like Lebron and Kobe have openly expressed their admiration for him in glowing terms.  Players like OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay and Josh Smith have publicly stated that they would love to play with Rondo. 

The ONLY people who seem to have a problem with Rondo are the media and gullible fans.  Even Ray Allen has only pointed to the system and being snubbed by Ainge as the reason he left.  He explicitly stated Rondo had nothing to do with his decision.  Why would he throw the coach and the organization under the bus but not Rondo whom he supposedly dislikes?

There are three people who are better than Rondo in the world when it comes to winning a game of basketball (at this point in time). 
1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Chris Paul

Every year the gap between those three and Rondo shrinks.

TP.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CoachBo on February 16, 2013, 05:26:23 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

And the pomposity of same.

This site on Rondo is actually worth a pay subscription for the entertainment.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 05:30:43 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

  I'd miss all of the posters that are overly impressed with themselves for being able to identify flaws in Rondo's game and assume that people are less critical are unable to see them.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CoachBo on February 16, 2013, 05:35:33 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

  I'd miss all of the posters that are overly impressed with themselves for being able to identify flaws in Rondo's game and assume that people are less critical are unable to see them.

I rest my case.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: TripleOT on February 16, 2013, 05:36:36 PM
Posting something like "what has Rondo done" is not a credible post.  Spending a lot of time refuting a post like this doesn't make sense.  I will,  however, spend a little time on it. 

Backsliding from that idiotic statement by talking about vague "achievements" doesn't help in the credibility department. 

If one looked at Rondo v. D-Ho objectively, he would see a first team NBA/multiple DPOY guy and a top of the league PG with an impressive post-season resume.  Howard's post season resume is similar to his regular season one.  Rondo has thrived in some huge playoff moments, including a close out win in his first Finals appearance, when he put up a 21/7/8/6 game.  That game alone should preclude anyone from saying "what has Rondo done" never mind the 7 game playoff where he almost averaged a triple double. 

Despite Rondo's achievements, the Lakers would be selling low if they moved Howard for Rondo.  If they could get Green and a pick or two, and had a strong feeling that Howard was going to bounce on them this summer, then they might make that trade. LA still has one of the best centers on the planet on their roster, in Gasol.  Having Nash and Rondo makes little sense, but this roster as presently constituted doesn't either.  They could ship Nash out of town this summer for Marion, and have a nice expiring deal to add to Kobe's and Gasol's final year.  The Lakers would be on the hook for only the $22m  for Rondo and Green in the "LeBron Summer" of 2014. 

Regarding the argument that the Lakers would be wasting one of Kobe's seasons, their chances of even slipping to the 8th seed aren't good,and even if they manage to slip into the playoffs as presently constituted, they're first round chum for the Spurs or Thunder.       
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Yogi on February 16, 2013, 05:37:58 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

Obviously flawed?  Every player in the world is obviously flawed.  Every human being in this world is obviously flawed.

What is Rondo's flaw exactly?  He can't shoot 3's at a high percentage and sucks at free throws?  That's ironic in a post about trading Rondo for Howard.  Rondo shoots 48% from the field for his career which is one of the best in the league for guards by the way.  Rondo costs us 1 point a game from his poor free throw shooting.  Howard costs his teams 4 points per game at the line.

Or is it his completely unsupported reputation (that is contrary to every Celtics player, coach, GM or legend that has been interviewed) of being a head case?  again extremely ironic in a thread about trading Rondo for Howard.  Just ask Van Gundy, Otis Smith, Kobe, Nash or Kupchack. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: TripleOT on February 16, 2013, 05:40:20 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

And the pomposity of same.

This site on Rondo is actually worth a pay subscription for the entertainment.

Condescend much?  All but a few NBA players are flawed.    Pomposity isn't the exclusive realm of the Rondo lovers either.

Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: KGs Knee on February 16, 2013, 05:42:29 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

Obviously flawed?  Every player in the world is obviously flawed.  Every human being in this world is obviously flawed.

What is Rondo's flaw exactly?  He can't shoot 3's at a high percentage and sucks at free throws?  That's ironic in a post about trading Rondo for Howard.  Rondo shoots 48% from the field for his career which is one of the best in the league for guards by the way.  Rondo costs us 1 point a game from his poor free throw shooting.  Howard costs his teams 4 points per game at the line.

Or is it his completely unsupported reputation (that is contrary to every Celtics player, coach, GM or legend that has been interviewed) of being a head case?  again extremely ironic in a thread about trading Rondo for Howard.  Just ask Van Gundy, Otis Smith, Kobe, Nash or Kupchack.

Howard makes Rondo look like Patron Saint when it comes to "mentality".
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 06:01:33 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

  I'd miss all of the posters that are overly impressed with themselves for being able to identify flaws in Rondo's game and assume that people are less critical are unable to see them.

I rest my case.

  Too funny. You don't even realize you're making my point.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 06:03:20 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

Obviously flawed?  Every player in the world is obviously flawed.

   Yes, but Rondo has flaws almost anyone can see, especially if they read about them online before they watch the games.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 16, 2013, 06:14:40 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

  I'd miss all of the posters that are overly impressed with themselves for being able to identify flaws in Rondo's game and assume that people are less critical are unable to see them.

I'd miss all the posters who get called 'Rondo haters' for not praising Rondo like a deity, and who use reason and facts when making a well-constructed and polite criticism of Rondo.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Redz on February 16, 2013, 06:18:27 PM
In the most construed analogy I can come up with, when it comes to D12, I find that we often act akin to an insecure boy who states that the hottest girl in the class is "really only a 2, she's not that pretty!" but upon learning we have a chance with her, infatuated puppies we become.

Ok I'm done.
I can't stand Dwight's personality.  I'm not a fan of him at all.  He always seemed destined to be a Laker to me... and that's where he will remain.

That said, in some magical land where we could land him for our broken point guard who even when he was healthy couldn't fetch chronically injured Steph Curry or 32 year old Pau Gasol... sign me up twice.

  If anything this shows how foolish people were to take reported rumors as fact. Somehow the Lakers would discuss Dwight Howard for Rondo but the wouldn't consider trading an older, lesser player for him? Too funny.
I think the rationalization fueling this is:

1) Lakers suck with him
2) he's damaged (we'll ignore the fact that the same can definitely be said for Rondo)
3) Kobe doesn't like him
4) He's a free agent after this season, and this season is lost, so let's deal him while we can still get something for him.

  I can definitely see why the Lakers might be exploring their options with Dwight. I'm just pointing out that they were rumored to be discussing trading him for a player I've been repeatedly been assured has little trade value around the league.

Hmmm, yeh I guess I didn't even think about it from the perspective of Rondo' s value. But I guess if you're buying the validity of this rumor then you must also be buying Rondo having some value.  Kobe was buttering up Rondo like a steamin' cob of corn last week for whatever it's worth.

Still, I have a hard believing there's any juice to this one.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 16, 2013, 06:33:48 PM
It's rare but guys get traded hurt. Normally when it's to a team that is lottery bound.

As recently as last year Bogut was traded to GS for Ellis. He missed the remainder of last season after the trade went through and the first half of this year.

Devin Harris was traded for Jason Kidd while hurt too I believe.

It is rare though
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: More Banners on February 16, 2013, 06:48:43 PM
It's rare but guys get traded hurt. Normally when it's to a team that is lottery bound.

As recently as last year Bogut was traded to GS for Ellis. He missed the remainder of last season after the trade went through and the first half of this year.

Devin Harris was traded for Jason Kidd while hurt too I believe.

It is rare though

Antoine/LaFrenz.

Probably more than I can think of quickly.

Value is obviously down, but there is always a buyer when the price is right.  It depends on what each team is trying to do. 

It's not often stars get traded at all, maybe a couple per year at most, 1-2 transactions?  That's what was really weird about getting Ray Allen (who was coming off surgery) AND KG at the same time while keeping Pierce.  THAT was rare.

But we're talking about that happening in reverse:  getting young, star talents in exchange for an established allstar.  Getting back a Big Al and Gerald Green, plus filler.

So yeah, it's pretty rare.  But the league is in a pretty weird place right now in terms of teams with batches of players, position logjams, etc.  There seem to be quite a few teams that need to balance rotations.

Also, contracts are suddenly shorter, and adding payroll is generally harder.  Shorter contracts make turnover opportunities increase through FA.

I think shorter contracts enable teams that are losing to make moves sooner than they used to, and salary crunches are happening or being foreseen, creating more activity all around. 

An increase in trade activity might be another concession the union gave up in the CBA (less stability for players/families).

But yes, trading Rondo is certainly a possibility.  They probably have quite a few offers, and perhaps a couple that aren't bad.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 16, 2013, 08:06:47 PM
The one thing I'd miss if Rondo were traded is the non-stop romanticizing about an obviously flawed played on this board.

  I'd miss all of the posters that are overly impressed with themselves for being able to identify flaws in Rondo's game and assume that people are less critical are unable to see them.

I'd miss all the posters who get called 'Rondo haters' for not praising Rondo like a deity, and who use reason and facts when making a well-constructed and polite criticism of Rondo.

  Life on bigsoccer I guess. Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: dmopower on February 19, 2013, 08:51:43 AM
I'll say this, if Rondo spent as much time working on his weak areas as Bball Tim spends defending him, Rondo would be a much better player and teammate for sure!

No need to defend him. We all see the great things he has done and does. That does not mean we can't expose his negative traits!

 Most great players became great after identifing their weak areas and working on them. Those that believe they need no improvment are destined to under achieve!

Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 09:18:38 AM
I'll say this, if Rondo spent as much time working on his weak areas as Bball Tim spends defending him, Rondo would be a much better player and teammate for sure!

No need to defend him. We all see the great things he has done and does. That does not mean we can't expose his negative traits!

 Most great players became great after identifing their weak areas and working on them. Those that believe they need no improvment are destined to under achieve!

  Rondo's improved his game pretty much every year he's been on the team. This year, for instance, he was much better at taking and making his longish twos. Most great players are better than Rondo when they're younger, they generally don't improve as much as he does.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 19, 2013, 09:21:33 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CoachBo on February 19, 2013, 09:48:44 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

I'm hard at work on a sabremetric to measure Rondo's "fiddlin' and diddlin'" as Johnny Most would put it.

I think I'll call it the BS Quotent.

For ball-stopping, of course.

Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: winsomme on February 19, 2013, 10:09:56 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

We are also long past the idea that Rondo is not an elite PG, yet some people cling to it desperately...

If I had the energy I would be right there posting with Bball. Rondo is a tremendous player. It's not really even debatable anymore.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 19, 2013, 10:15:55 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

We are also long past the idea that Rondo is not an elite PG, yet some people cling to it desperately...

If I had the energy I would be right there posting with Bball. Rondo is a tremendous player. It's not really even debatable anymore.

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't consider Rondo an elite PG.

The part where fans get split is HOW elite.  Like for instance, I gawk at people who say Rondo's better than Chris Paul and Derrick Rose (when healthy).  Personally, I feel those two are far and away better than Rondo.  Kyrie Irving is hot on his tail.  I think Rondo is the third best PG in the league, and others don't.

Unfortunately, some don't take criticism of Rondo lightly, and that leads to heated debates.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 10:25:16 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

  Rondo dribbling the ball at the top of the key isn't a new thing, in fact we've had our best runs on offense when it's happened. Maybe part of the problem lately is that some of the other players weren't moving as much off the ball. Do you have stats about that? Or maybe you have stats that say we're playing at a faster pace now, or that we're taking fewer shots late in the shot clock without Rondo?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: winsomme on February 19, 2013, 10:27:33 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

We are also long past the idea that Rondo is not an elite PG, yet some people cling to it desperately...

If I had the energy I would be right there posting with Bball. Rondo is a tremendous player. It's not really even debatable anymore.

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't consider Rondo an elite PG.

The part where fans get split is HOW elite.  Like for instance, I gawk at people who say Rondo's better than Chris Paul and Derrick Rose (when healthy).  Personally, I feel those two are far and away better than Rondo.  Kyrie Irving is hot on his tail.  I think Rondo is the third best PG in the league, and others don't.

Unfortunately, some don't take criticism of Rondo lightly, and that leads to heated debates.

Well the problem, CF, is when you throw in terms like "far and away." If you truly felt that Rondo was "elite" then other top PGs would not be "far and away" better...better yes, but not far and away better.

It's that kind of inconsistency that reveals underlying distaste for Rondo that some here seem not able to get past. For some fans, it's like taking cough syrup to call Rondo elite. you can tell it's just tough for them to swallow because they have spent years saying he wasn't elite and still aren't really able acknowledge it..
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: winsomme on February 19, 2013, 10:31:28 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

  Rondo dribbling the ball at the top of the key isn't a new thing, in fact we've had our best runs on offense when it's happened. Maybe part of the problem lately is that some of the other players weren't moving as much off the ball. Do you have stats about that? Or maybe you have stats that say we're playing at a faster pace now, or that we're taking fewer shots late in the shot clock without Rondo?

Yeah Lee was completely unable to play off of Rondo.

And that style of play, by the way, is crunch-time playoff basketball. You need to be able to execute in slowed down half court sets to win in the playoffs, and that is why Rondo has been so valuable in our playoff runs.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: snowball on February 19, 2013, 10:38:08 AM
I would trade Rondo for Howard in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 19, 2013, 10:44:56 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

I'm hard at work on a sabremetric to measure Rondo's "fiddlin' and diddlin'" as Johnny Most would put it.

I think I'll call it the BS Quotent.

For ball-stopping, of course.
You call and I oblige:

Quote
It’s no secret Boston’s offense had grown very Rondo-dominant, especially this season. The Celtics are one of 15 teams that have invested in fancy data-tracking cameras from STATS LLC, and the information from those cameras, provided exclusively to Grantland, backs up that notion. Rondo has dribbled the ball about 486 times per tracked game this season, the fourth-highest figure in the league for players on those 15 camera teams, and about 90 more dribbles per game than he averaged last season, according to the data. A larger percentage of his touches — 41 percent this season, 35.5 percent last season — have involved at least six dribbles.

This has naturally resulted in fewer touches, and shorter touches, for some of Boston’s secondary ball-handlers. Terry dribbles the ball twice on average every time he gets it, down from a three-dribble average last season, and a much higher percentage of his touches have lasted between zero and two seconds in Boston, the data show. Pierce’s stats have shifted in a similar way, and Terry is still on pace for a career-low usage rate — a measure of the percentage of Boston possessions that end with a Terry shot, drawn foul or turnover.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/50099/are-the-celtics-really-this-good-without-rajon-rondo
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 19, 2013, 11:30:47 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

We are also long past the idea that Rondo is not an elite PG, yet some people cling to it desperately...

If I had the energy I would be right there posting with Bball. Rondo is a tremendous player. It's not really even debatable anymore.

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't consider Rondo an elite PG.

The part where fans get split is HOW elite.  Like for instance, I gawk at people who say Rondo's better than Chris Paul and Derrick Rose (when healthy).  Personally, I feel those two are far and away better than Rondo.  Kyrie Irving is hot on his tail.  I think Rondo is the third best PG in the league, and others don't.

Unfortunately, some don't take criticism of Rondo lightly, and that leads to heated debates.

Well the problem, CF, is when you throw in terms like "far and away." If you truly felt that Rondo was "elite" then other top PGs would not be "far and away" better...better yes, but not far and away better.

It's that kind of inconsistency that reveals underlying distaste for Rondo that some here seem not able to get past. For some fans, it's like taking cough syrup to call Rondo elite. you can tell it's just tough for them to swallow because they have spent years saying he wasn't elite and still aren't really able acknowledge it..

True.  I probably shouldn't have used "far and away."  More like, "Rondo's really, really good, it's just that Rose and Paul are better."

I don't dislike Rondo at all.  I love Rondo.  He's my second favorite guy on the team behind KG.  I just feel Rondo needs to work on a couple facets of his game (consistency, primarily) and he can take. His game to whole new, SCARY level.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 11:38:17 AM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

I'm hard at work on a sabremetric to measure Rondo's "fiddlin' and diddlin'" as Johnny Most would put it.

I think I'll call it the BS Quotent.

For ball-stopping, of course.
You call and I oblige:

Quote
It’s no secret Boston’s offense had grown very Rondo-dominant, especially this season. The Celtics are one of 15 teams that have invested in fancy data-tracking cameras from STATS LLC, and the information from those cameras, provided exclusively to Grantland, backs up that notion. Rondo has dribbled the ball about 486 times per tracked game this season, the fourth-highest figure in the league for players on those 15 camera teams, and about 90 more dribbles per game than he averaged last season, according to the data. A larger percentage of his touches — 41 percent this season, 35.5 percent last season — have involved at least six dribbles.

This has naturally resulted in fewer touches, and shorter touches, for some of Boston’s secondary ball-handlers. Terry dribbles the ball twice on average every time he gets it, down from a three-dribble average last season, and a much higher percentage of his touches have lasted between zero and two seconds in Boston, the data show. Pierce’s stats have shifted in a similar way, and Terry is still on pace for a career-low usage rate — a measure of the percentage of Boston possessions that end with a Terry shot, drawn foul or turnover.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/50099/are-the-celtics-really-this-good-without-rajon-rondo

  I don't know that those numbers are as bad as people wish they were. If Rondo's 4th out of 15 teams in dribbles/game, he's probably 7th-8th in the nba. You'd think from this thread that he was the league leader by a significant margin. I don't see why a point guard who's a) on a team that plays at a slowish pace and b) leads the league in assists by a pretty good margin wouldn't be expected to be among the top 10 players in the league in dribbles per game.

  You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game. I wonder if you two could easily name the rest of the top 10 in the league, off the top of your heads and without consulting any stats. It must be awfully simple, seeing as it's apparently one of the most noticeable things that happen in a game. I'd also wonder whether you would have the same criticism of their games as you do for Rondo. Or whether this is just another overly large molehill.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 19, 2013, 11:55:10 AM
I don't know that those numbers are as bad as people wish they were. If Rondo's 4th out of 15 teams in dribbles/game, he's probably 7th-8th in the nba. You'd think from this thread that he was the league leader by a significant margin. I don't see why a point guard who's a) on a team that plays at a slowish pace and b) leads the league in assists by a pretty good margin wouldn't be expected to be among the top 10 players in the league in dribbles per game.
He managed to be all that last year with much less dribbling. Coincidentally, some of his teammates played much better, and so did the team as a whole.

I'm sure he wants to lead the team, I'm just not sure he knows how (hint: dribbling the ball until you can get someone a shot is not the best way to do this).

You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game. I wonder if you two could easily name the rest of the top 10 in the league, off the top of your heads and without consulting any stats. It must be awfully simple, seeing as it's apparently one of the most noticeable things that happen in a game. I'd also wonder whether you would have the same criticism of their games as you do for Rondo. Or whether this is just another overly large molehill.
I'm sure I could if I were watching every team in the league as much as I watch the Celtics. Except I don't.

But this is about Rondo, and the trends in Rondo's game. And is funny how the tune changes from "there's no evidence that this is true" to "this is not really an issue" when the evidence turns up. Boo-ya.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: bdm860 on February 19, 2013, 12:19:17 PM
How about this, instead of Rondo for Howard, the C’s trade the Rondo for Kobe Bryant.

1.    Scared they’ll lose Dwight to free agency, Lakers choose to build around 27 year old Howard, instead of trying to rebuild around 34 year old Bryant.  Pretty much coming full circle from when they traded 32 year old Shaq, choosing to go with 26 year old Bryant.  Get rid of the players Dwight doesn’t like (Kobe), bring in players he does (Dwight and Rondo are buddies, right?), maybe Dwight signs an extension now if the Lakers make it clear it's Dwight’s team.

2.   Lakers have said they’re not trading Howard, said nothing about Kobe, wink, wink.  ;D

3.   While the salaries would have to be pretty close to make a trade work, shedding a $30m contract is a big step towards cutting costs.  Not that the Lakers are that concerned about cutting costs, but they don’t want to pay a $70m luxury tax next year for a dysfunctional team that can’t make the playoffs.  Getting several smaller contracts for a big one, they’ll be easier to move later for cost cutting purposes.  Or maybe a multi-team trade with Rondo and expirings going to Lakers.

4.   The Celtics choose to make one last veteran push, with Garnett, Pierce, and Kobe all off the books/unguaranteed after 2014.

Rondo/Green/Bass works, or perhaps a multi-team deal moving Green or Bass for expirings.  Maybe throw in Avery Bradley (since he won’t get as much time with Kobe).

Celtics:
Lee/Terry
Kobe/Terry
Pierce
?/Sullinger (next year).
Garnett
(? = Maybe the C’s swing another small deal for Dajuan Blair or some other serviceable big).

Lakers:
Get a core of Rondo/Howard (something a lot of us hoped for in the past), and maybe even Bradley/Green for very solid starting support.  (Or maybe it's Green/Bass/Bradley to ATL for Josh Smith, now the Lakers just put together the coveted Celticsblog dream team of Rondo/Smith/Howard!  :D)

Obviously we lose a lot of the depth we had left, but other minor deals  could probably be made to help patch some holes.

Think about it, if Danny was the GM of the Lakers, he probably would have already pulled the trigger on this thing, lol.

(Not really serious about this, so no need to waste your time poking holes or ridiculing it, just having some fun spit balling  :) ).

Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 19, 2013, 12:20:37 PM
Quote
You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game.

Not me, I would expect a PG who advances the ball but then I played basketball and know the positions.   I also, know a pass is faster than a dribble but I would expect PG's to dribble the most.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Celtics18 on February 19, 2013, 12:28:55 PM
I don't know that those numbers are as bad as people wish they were. If Rondo's 4th out of 15 teams in dribbles/game, he's probably 7th-8th in the nba. You'd think from this thread that he was the league leader by a significant margin. I don't see why a point guard who's a) on a team that plays at a slowish pace and b) leads the league in assists by a pretty good margin wouldn't be expected to be among the top 10 players in the league in dribbles per game.
He managed to be all that last year with much less dribbling. Coincidentally, some of his teammates played much better, and so did the team as a whole.

I'm sure he wants to lead the team, I'm just not sure he knows how (hint: dribbling the ball until you can get someone a shot is not the best way to do this).

You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game. I wonder if you two could easily name the rest of the top 10 in the league, off the top of your heads and without consulting any stats. It must be awfully simple, seeing as it's apparently one of the most noticeable things that happen in a game. I'd also wonder whether you would have the same criticism of their games as you do for Rondo. Or whether this is just another overly large molehill.
I'm sure I could if I were watching every team in the league as much as I watch the Celtics. Except I don't.

But this is about Rondo, and the trends in Rondo's game. And is funny how the tune changes from "there's no evidence that this is true" to "this is not really an issue" when the evidence turns up. Boo-ya.

Sorry, but your evidence is almost completely meaningless.  There's no context whatsoever.  I'd love to see a complete list of the 15 teams that track dribbles per possession, and a list of how many dribbles per possession each player on those teams takes.  My guess is that some of the best players on the best teams, like Chris Paul,  Lebron James, Kevin Durant, and Tony Parker, are among the league leaders in dribbles per possession. 

You'd have to show me way more than what's in that short, vague paragraph that you posted to be able to make any correlations about anything. 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 12:35:36 PM
I don't know that those numbers are as bad as people wish they were. If Rondo's 4th out of 15 teams in dribbles/game, he's probably 7th-8th in the nba. You'd think from this thread that he was the league leader by a significant margin. I don't see why a point guard who's a) on a team that plays at a slowish pace and b) leads the league in assists by a pretty good margin wouldn't be expected to be among the top 10 players in the league in dribbles per game.
He managed to be all that last year with much less dribbling. Coincidentally, some of his teammates played much better, and so did the team as a whole.

  And how much of the issue do you blame on Rondo and how much on the team as a whole? Hint: all on Rondo.

I'm sure he wants to lead the team, I'm just not sure he knows how (hint: dribbling the ball until you can get someone a shot is not the best way to do this).

  Hint: He's been one of the leaders of the team for at least a few years, assuming the coaches and players are in more of a position to judge such things than you are.

You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game. I wonder if you two could easily name the rest of the top 10 in the league, off the top of your heads and without consulting any stats. It must be awfully simple, seeing as it's apparently one of the most noticeable things that happen in a game. I'd also wonder whether you would have the same criticism of their games as you do for Rondo. Or whether this is just another overly large molehill.
I'm sure I could if I were watching every team in the league as much as I watch the Celtics. Except I don't.

  I thought as much.

But this is about Rondo, and the trends in Rondo's game. And is funny how the tune changes from "there's no evidence that this is true" to "this is not really an issue" when the evidence turns up. Boo-ya.

  My point of view has always been about whether this is the issue for the team that people claim that it is. I've been talking about the team's pace with and without Rondo, how many late in the shot clock shots we take compared to other teams and how we're still getting a lot of jumpers late in the shot clock despite our ball movement, and that we're normally a good offense when Rondo controls the ball. And I was discussing all of those topics well before someone stumbled upon that "proof". So, double boo-ya right back atcha.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: action781 on February 19, 2013, 12:42:23 PM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

I'm hard at work on a sabremetric to measure Rondo's "fiddlin' and diddlin'" as Johnny Most would put it.

I think I'll call it the BS Quotent.

For ball-stopping, of course.
You call and I oblige:

Quote
It’s no secret Boston’s offense had grown very Rondo-dominant, especially this season. The Celtics are one of 15 teams that have invested in fancy data-tracking cameras from STATS LLC, and the information from those cameras, provided exclusively to Grantland, backs up that notion. Rondo has dribbled the ball about 486 times per tracked game this season, the fourth-highest figure in the league for players on those 15 camera teams, and about 90 more dribbles per game than he averaged last season, according to the data. A larger percentage of his touches — 41 percent this season, 35.5 percent last season — have involved at least six dribbles.

This has naturally resulted in fewer touches, and shorter touches, for some of Boston’s secondary ball-handlers. Terry dribbles the ball twice on average every time he gets it, down from a three-dribble average last season, and a much higher percentage of his touches have lasted between zero and two seconds in Boston, the data show. Pierce’s stats have shifted in a similar way, and Terry is still on pace for a career-low usage rate — a measure of the percentage of Boston possessions that end with a Terry shot, drawn foul or turnover.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/50099/are-the-celtics-really-this-good-without-rajon-rondo

  I don't know that those numbers are as bad as people wish they were. If Rondo's 4th out of 15 teams in dribbles/game, he's probably 7th-8th in the nba. You'd think from this thread that he was the league leader by a significant margin. I don't see why a point guard who's a) on a team that plays at a slowish pace and b) leads the league in assists by a pretty good margin wouldn't be expected to be among the top 10 players in the league in dribbles per game.

  You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game. I wonder if you two could easily name the rest of the top 10 in the league, off the top of your heads and without consulting any stats. It must be awfully simple, seeing as it's apparently one of the most noticeable things that happen in a game. I'd also wonder whether you would have the same criticism of their games as you do for Rondo. Or whether this is just another overly large molehill.

The problem is that this had become the celtics style and identity of offense.  And this offense was 26th in efficiency and we were a sub-.500 team while rostering a lot of very talented offensive players.  Had this kind of offense been in the top 10 efficiency-wise in the NBA, then I'd say KEEP DOING IT.  But it wasn't.

No, I'm not critical of Lebron or Melo for doing it because whatever they are doing is working for them.  If Durant and CP3 are in that group, then no, I won't criticize them for doing it because it is working.

If I were a Lakers fan, then yes I absolutely would be critical of Kobe for it if he is in that same group.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 19, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
But this is about Rondo, and the trends in Rondo's game. And is funny how the tune changes from "there's no evidence that this is true" to "this is not really an issue" when the evidence turns up. Boo-ya.
My point of view has always been about whether this is the issue for the team that people claim that it is. I've been talking about the team's pace with and without Rondo, how many late in the shot clock shots we take compared to other teams and how we're still getting a lot of jumpers late in the shot clock despite our ball movement, and that we're normally a good offense when Rondo controls the ball. And I was discussing all of those topics well before someone stumbled upon that "proof". So, double boo-ya right back atcha.
So it seems we agree that the issue is real, at least. That's a good starting point.

But the fact remains that Rondo has controlled the ball more this season, and the offence has been worse, so I'm not sure how you reconcile this with the statement that we're "typically a good offense when Rondo controls the ball".

Also, I've never said that getting jumpers late in the clock is the issue -- the issue here is that having no-one touch the ball but the PG for most of the possession is not a good way to run offense. Pin it on whoever you want.

 
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 01:42:00 PM
Saying that Rondo's outside shooting doesn't stop him from being a good player = praising him like a deity, criticisms that don't mesh with any available stats are well constructed and based on reason and facts.
This conversation has long moved past Rondo's shooting (which has improved) and is now about his newly found love for dribbling the ball at the top of the key. And yes, there are stats for this, it seems.

I'm hard at work on a sabremetric to measure Rondo's "fiddlin' and diddlin'" as Johnny Most would put it.

I think I'll call it the BS Quotent.

For ball-stopping, of course.
You call and I oblige:

Quote
It’s no secret Boston’s offense had grown very Rondo-dominant, especially this season. The Celtics are one of 15 teams that have invested in fancy data-tracking cameras from STATS LLC, and the information from those cameras, provided exclusively to Grantland, backs up that notion. Rondo has dribbled the ball about 486 times per tracked game this season, the fourth-highest figure in the league for players on those 15 camera teams, and about 90 more dribbles per game than he averaged last season, according to the data. A larger percentage of his touches — 41 percent this season, 35.5 percent last season — have involved at least six dribbles.

This has naturally resulted in fewer touches, and shorter touches, for some of Boston’s secondary ball-handlers. Terry dribbles the ball twice on average every time he gets it, down from a three-dribble average last season, and a much higher percentage of his touches have lasted between zero and two seconds in Boston, the data show. Pierce’s stats have shifted in a similar way, and Terry is still on pace for a career-low usage rate — a measure of the percentage of Boston possessions that end with a Terry shot, drawn foul or turnover.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/50099/are-the-celtics-really-this-good-without-rajon-rondo

  I don't know that those numbers are as bad as people wish they were. If Rondo's 4th out of 15 teams in dribbles/game, he's probably 7th-8th in the nba. You'd think from this thread that he was the league leader by a significant margin. I don't see why a point guard who's a) on a team that plays at a slowish pace and b) leads the league in assists by a pretty good margin wouldn't be expected to be among the top 10 players in the league in dribbles per game.

  You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game. I wonder if you two could easily name the rest of the top 10 in the league, off the top of your heads and without consulting any stats. It must be awfully simple, seeing as it's apparently one of the most noticeable things that happen in a game. I'd also wonder whether you would have the same criticism of their games as you do for Rondo. Or whether this is just another overly large molehill.

The problem is that this had become the celtics style and identity of offense.  And this offense was 26th in efficiency and we were a sub-.500 team while rostering a lot of very talented offensive players.  Had this kind of offense been in the top 10 efficiency-wise in the NBA, then I'd say KEEP DOING IT.  But it wasn't.

No, I'm not critical of Lebron or Melo for doing it because whatever they are doing is working for them.  If Durant and CP3 are in that group, then no, I won't criticize them for doing it because it is working.

If I were a Lakers fan, then yes I absolutely would be critical of Kobe for it if he is in that same group.

  The main reason we're 26th in efficiency is offensive rebounding, the next reason's not having the three point shooters we used to, I don't see why you'd try and blame Rondo for that.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 01:54:54 PM
But this is about Rondo, and the trends in Rondo's game. And is funny how the tune changes from "there's no evidence that this is true" to "this is not really an issue" when the evidence turns up. Boo-ya.
My point of view has always been about whether this is the issue for the team that people claim that it is. I've been talking about the team's pace with and without Rondo, how many late in the shot clock shots we take compared to other teams and how we're still getting a lot of jumpers late in the shot clock despite our ball movement, and that we're normally a good offense when Rondo controls the ball. And I was discussing all of those topics well before someone stumbled upon that "proof". So, double boo-ya right back atcha.
So it seems we agree that the issue is real, at least. That's a good starting point.

  I don't think anyone's ever disputed that Rondo controls the ball a lot. Whether that's a problem for the team is another thing.

But the fact remains that Rondo has controlled the ball more this season, and the offence has been worse, so I'm not sure how you reconcile this with the statement that we're "typically a good offense when Rondo controls the ball".

  The way I reconcile the statement is that I recall games that Rondo played in before early-mid December of this year. Rondo didn't just start playing for the Celts this year and he didn't just start controlling the ball on offense. I also realize that the fact that 2 of our top 3 scorers have been playing through injuries, and the offense went downhill over the time since Rondo got the bone bruise on his hip, and that he was frequently wearing an ice pack on his back when he wasn't in the game. The offense was better than average earlier this year, and there are clearly reasons that it was poor over a stretch of games other than just Rondo dribbling the ball.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 19, 2013, 02:04:50 PM
But the fact remains that Rondo has controlled the ball more this season, and the offence has been worse, so I'm not sure how you reconcile this with the statement that we're "typically a good offense when Rondo controls the ball".

  The way I reconcile the statement is that I recall games that Rondo played in before early-mid December of this year. Rondo didn't just start playing for the Celts this year and he didn't just start controlling the ball on offense. I also realize that the fact that 2 of our top 3 scorers have been playing through injuries, and the offense went downhill over the time since Rondo got the bone bruise on his hip, and that he was frequently wearing an ice pack on his back when he wasn't in the game. The offense was better than average earlier this year, and there are clearly reasons that it was poor over a stretch of games other than just Rondo dribbling the ball.
And no-one has been nicked and bruised on the Celtics prior to this season? And everyone magically got healthy when Rondo got injured?

There are sure multiple factors at work here, but Rondo dribbling the ball too much is quite clearly one of them.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jay on February 19, 2013, 02:20:26 PM
What if they did all 3 trades and ended up with a core 7 of:

Bledsoe
Bradley
Lee
Green
Smith
Howard
Jordan


What better group to have to match up with Miami?  Huge inside, 6'9" forwards that can jump out of the gym and arent as skinny as rail, and guards that can defend on the perimeter.  Would be lacking that one sg/sf that could get you 17+ pts and hit the big shot in crunch time.  Assuming Bass would go out with Rondo and that Sullinger would be in the Smith deal. 

Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: action781 on February 19, 2013, 02:26:05 PM
  I don't know that those numbers are as bad as people wish they were. If Rondo's 4th out of 15 teams in dribbles/game, he's probably 7th-8th in the nba. You'd think from this thread that he was the league leader by a significant margin. I don't see why a point guard who's a) on a team that plays at a slowish pace and b) leads the league in assists by a pretty good margin wouldn't be expected to be among the top 10 players in the league in dribbles per game.

  You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game. I wonder if you two could easily name the rest of the top 10 in the league, off the top of your heads and without consulting any stats. It must be awfully simple, seeing as it's apparently one of the most noticeable things that happen in a game. I'd also wonder whether you would have the same criticism of their games as you do for Rondo. Or whether this is just another overly large molehill.

The problem is that this had become the celtics style and identity of offense.  And this offense was 26th in efficiency and we were a sub-.500 team while rostering a lot of very talented offensive players.  Had this kind of offense been in the top 10 efficiency-wise in the NBA, then I'd say KEEP DOING IT.  But it wasn't.

No, I'm not critical of Lebron or Melo for doing it because whatever they are doing is working for them.  If Durant and CP3 are in that group, then no, I won't criticize them for doing it because it is working.

If I were a Lakers fan, then yes I absolutely would be critical of Kobe for it if he is in that same group.

  The main reason we're 26th in efficiency is offensive rebounding, the next reason's not having the three point shooters we used to, I don't see why you'd try and blame Rondo for that.
Lack of offensive rebounding...  On that topic.  Only one team in the league is worse at offensive rebounding than the Celtics.  The Spurs who have the 5th best offensive efficiency in the NBA.  The Miami Heat are the 4th worst offensive rebounding team in the NBA and 2nd best in offensive efficiency.  I don't think that's where all the blame lies.

You're right that Rondo is not to blame for the lack of 3 point shooting.  Lee and Terry are likely to blame for becoming worse 3 point shooters than their career average once they become a celtic. 

(EDIT: OK, sorry for being facetious there.  I think you are right in that 3 point shooting may be the cause of poor efficiency.  But I also don't think Rondo (and Doc too) is without any blame in this regard as you seem to be trying to say.  When I'm free, I actually am going to look more into this correlation between 3 pt shooting and offensive efficiency.  I think there might be something very indicative in these two statistics.)
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 19, 2013, 02:26:32 PM
What if they did all 3 trades and ended up with a core 7 of:

Bledsoe
Bradley
Lee
Green
Smith
Howard
Jordan


What better group to have to match up with Miami?  Huge inside, 6'9" forwards that can jump out of the gym and arent as skinny as rail, and guards that can defend on the perimeter.  Would be lacking that one sg/sf that could get you 17+ pts and hit the big shot in crunch time.  Assuming Bass would go out with Rondo and that Sullinger would be in the Smith deal.
I'm not quite sure whether this post is sarcastic or not ... but a "better group" would include at least one guy who can both "make things happen" (for lack of a better term) and make a free throw.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jay on February 19, 2013, 02:29:33 PM
I'm not quite sure whether this post is sarcastic or not ... but a "better group" would include at least one guy who can both "make things happen" (for lack of a better term) and make a free throw.


True free throws would be terrible. 

Im talking about walking out on the floor and matching up with them athletically.  Knowing they arent going to run, jump, and push their way past you because you are too short, or too slow, or too old.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Rtpas11 on February 19, 2013, 02:34:26 PM
hope this trade happens... Lakers are going nowhere this year, Howard is definitely leaving/ they'll be fools not to make this trade happen.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 02:36:03 PM
But the fact remains that Rondo has controlled the ball more this season, and the offence has been worse, so I'm not sure how you reconcile this with the statement that we're "typically a good offense when Rondo controls the ball".

  The way I reconcile the statement is that I recall games that Rondo played in before early-mid December of this year. Rondo didn't just start playing for the Celts this year and he didn't just start controlling the ball on offense. I also realize that the fact that 2 of our top 3 scorers have been playing through injuries, and the offense went downhill over the time since Rondo got the bone bruise on his hip, and that he was frequently wearing an ice pack on his back when he wasn't in the game. The offense was better than average earlier this year, and there are clearly reasons that it was poor over a stretch of games other than just Rondo dribbling the ball.
And no-one has been nicked and bruised on the Celtics prior to this season? And everyone magically got healthy when Rondo got injured?

There are sure multiple factors at work here, but Rondo dribbling the ball too much is quite clearly one of them.

  Lack of movement off the ball probably accounts for much of Rondo dribbling so much, and you haven't shown that Rondo dribbling so much has a negative effect on the offense.

  Also, you're right, this isn't the first time someone on the Celts has been nicked and bruised. In the middle of the 09-10 season KG and PP (and, I think, Rondo) were all missing games and in and out of the lineup and not up to snuff when they played and the offense (and the team play) suffered. In the 10-11 season Rondo spent much of the season struggling with injuries and the offense (and the team play) suffered. In the 11-12 season KG and PP were injured/playing poorly early in the season and Rondo was nicked up as well and, shockingly the offense (and the team play) suffered.

  Heck, you could go back to our title year when Rondo had an injury (hamstring I think) around Xmas and the offense dropped off quite a bit until he was healthy again. The team goes through poor stretches of play when key players are struggling or out of the lineup every single year, people are just acting like this is the first time they've ever seen it and don't understand that you don't need to over-react to it when it happens.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 02:45:26 PM
  I don't know that those numbers are as bad as people wish they were. If Rondo's 4th out of 15 teams in dribbles/game, he's probably 7th-8th in the nba. You'd think from this thread that he was the league leader by a significant margin. I don't see why a point guard who's a) on a team that plays at a slowish pace and b) leads the league in assists by a pretty good margin wouldn't be expected to be among the top 10 players in the league in dribbles per game.

  You'd expect players like Kobe, LeBron and Melo to be in the top 5 for dribbles per game. I wonder if you two could easily name the rest of the top 10 in the league, off the top of your heads and without consulting any stats. It must be awfully simple, seeing as it's apparently one of the most noticeable things that happen in a game. I'd also wonder whether you would have the same criticism of their games as you do for Rondo. Or whether this is just another overly large molehill.

The problem is that this had become the celtics style and identity of offense.  And this offense was 26th in efficiency and we were a sub-.500 team while rostering a lot of very talented offensive players.  Had this kind of offense been in the top 10 efficiency-wise in the NBA, then I'd say KEEP DOING IT.  But it wasn't.

No, I'm not critical of Lebron or Melo for doing it because whatever they are doing is working for them.  If Durant and CP3 are in that group, then no, I won't criticize them for doing it because it is working.

If I were a Lakers fan, then yes I absolutely would be critical of Kobe for it if he is in that same group.

  The main reason we're 26th in efficiency is offensive rebounding, the next reason's not having the three point shooters we used to, I don't see why you'd try and blame Rondo for that.
Lack of offensive rebounding...  On that topic.  Only one team in the league is worse at offensive rebounding than the Celtics.  The Spurs who have the 5th best offensive efficiency in the NBA.  The Miami Heat are the 4th worst offensive rebounding team in the NBA and 2nd best in offensive efficiency.  I don't think that's where all the blame lies.

  This is fairly silly. SA and Miami are good offenses *in spite* of not being good offensive rebounding teams. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Think about any factor you can come up with that would lead to a good offense (turnovers, efg%, 3 point shooting, Oreb) and you'll find a team or two in the top 10 offenses that' below average in that category. If you look at what happened to our offense between 2008 and 2012 (going from top 10 to bottom 5 or so) you'll probably see a bigger drop offensive rebounding than anything else, and the next biggest factor is probably taking both fewer 3 pointers and fewer shots at the rim.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: kozlodoev on February 19, 2013, 02:52:00 PM
Lack of movement off the ball probably accounts for much of Rondo dribbling so much, and you haven't shown that Rondo dribbling so much has a negative effect on the offense.
I'm confused, did players just mysteriously started moving around more when Rondo went down? It's sure possible, but I find such a development baffling.

The offense has played better without Rondo -- you may refuse to take this as evidence that Rondo dribbling the ball has had a negative effect on the team, but that's not my problem.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 19, 2013, 02:53:01 PM
Lack of movement off the ball probably accounts for much of Rondo dribbling so much, and you haven't shown that Rondo dribbling so much has a negative effect on the offense.
I'm confused, did players just mysteriously started moving around more when Rondo went down? It's sure possible, but I find such a development baffling.

The offense has played better without Rondo -- you may refuse to take this as evidence that Rondo dribbling the ball has had a negative effect on the team, but that's not my problem.

They didn't "mysteriously start moving around," I think they were forced to, simply because there was no other way to get the ball.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 03:10:59 PM
Lack of movement off the ball probably accounts for much of Rondo dribbling so much, and you haven't shown that Rondo dribbling so much has a negative effect on the offense.
I'm confused, did players just mysteriously started moving around more when Rondo went down? It's sure possible, but I find such a development baffling.

The offense has played better without Rondo -- you may refuse to take this as evidence that Rondo dribbling the ball has had a negative effect on the team, but that's not my problem.

  The offense also played better *with* Rondo, earlier in the year when he was on his assist streak. You're acting like we've always been bad this year when Rondo played and always been better when he hasn't. This simply isn't the case. If you think you can explain why we were playing better on offense when Rondo was "controlling the ball and fishing for assists" and somehow reconcile that with "Rondo dribbling the ball has had a negative effect on the team", be my guest. If not, you have no evidence to back your claim.

Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BballTim on February 19, 2013, 03:25:41 PM
Lack of movement off the ball probably accounts for much of Rondo dribbling so much, and you haven't shown that Rondo dribbling so much has a negative effect on the offense.
I'm confused, did players just mysteriously started moving around more when Rondo went down? It's sure possible, but I find such a development baffling.

The offense has played better without Rondo -- you may refuse to take this as evidence that Rondo dribbling the ball has had a negative effect on the team, but that's not my problem.

They didn't "mysteriously start moving around," I think they were forced to, simply because there was no other way to get the ball.

  Doc switching up the offense to the motion offense probably had a lot to do with the changes.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Brendan on February 19, 2013, 03:29:03 PM
I was thinking about this, isn't possible Rondo's lack of shooting creates a bias for him to hold the rock and create a basket directly, rather than facilitating general ball movement and good offense? Not necessarily a one person thing either - could be a subtle bias in everyone's mind (Doc, Rondo, the other players who don't move as much, etc.)

Just a theory... but fixable: Rondo can be a potent threat on back cuts and setting screens when he doesn't have the ball.
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: Kane3387 on February 20, 2013, 12:00:21 AM
Wonder if this gets revisited tomorrow?
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on February 20, 2013, 12:06:24 AM
I'd do it in a minute
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: jdz101 on February 20, 2013, 02:08:53 AM
Gah...who dug this one up again??

(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/415/204/234.jpg)
Title: Re: Rumor: Rondo for Howard...?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 20, 2013, 09:43:51 PM
Wonder if this gets revisited tomorrow?

I have a feeling it will, not sure what's Ainge mindset on this issue... nor I don't know why the Lakers would want to retain Howard beyond the trade deadline, unless they have a good idea of where Howard might head next year, and work a sign and trade with that team.

I don't see it though.