CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: krook on February 14, 2013, 12:13:44 PM
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Will Rondo And Smith Duo Bring This Team To A Championship Ring And Playoffs? Next Year?
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Not when there are duos out there like bron and wade, Paul and griffin, durant and Westbrook,, etc. if we managed to add smith while keepin our two best players, kg and pierce, then we would at least make some noise
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Thank god, another poll....
and no, a team built around rondo and smith could not win a chmapionship.
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They should be a playoff team. They would need a lot of help to be a contender. Rondo and Smith, along with Bradley, would be a nice defensive core. But, they would need scorers.
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They should be a playoff team. They would need a lot of help to be a contender. Rondo and Smith, along with Bradley, would be a nice defensive core. But, they would need scorers.
I agree with both your points but at the end but im not sure this team could realistically be a contender. I don't necessarily believe you can win without a top tier guy. And I think Smith is a third tier star and rondo a second tier.
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They should be a playoff team. They would need a lot of help to be a contender. Rondo and Smith, along with Bradley, would be a nice defensive core. But, they would need scorers.
I agree with both your points but at the end but im not sure this team could realistically be a contender. I don't necessarily believe you can win without a top tier guy. And I think Smith is a third tier star and rondo a second tier.
I agree with you. And I am not thrilled at the idea of going forward with those two as your core.
With that said, top tier guys are insanely hard to come by. And if this is a way we can keep the team winning ball games, I would at least consider it.
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obvious playoff team...doubtful you get a title out of it
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I concur with most of the other comments. The poll should probably be reworded. It is two questions:
Would they be a playoff team? Yes.
Would they win a title? Probably not - depends a lot on what the rest of the team is composed of.
A core of Rondo, Bradley, Green & JSmith is a pretty solid, athletic foursome, that would probably be very good defensively, so that's always a great place to start.
But as others have mentioned you need reliable and consistent scoring as well.
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
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Two very talented but erratic players. D would be horrendous.
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Probably not, especially since there wouldn't be a lot of help coming in free agency.
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They should be a playoff team. They would need a lot of help to be a contender. Rondo and Smith, along with Bradley, would be a nice defensive core. But, they would need scorers.
I agree with both your points but at the end but im not sure this team could realistically be a contender. I don't necessarily believe you can win without a top tier guy. And I think Smith is a third tier star and rondo a second tier.
Rondo's certainly shown that he can play like a top tier star in the playoffs. They certainly wouldn't be title favorites but with a decent center and subs their title chances would probably be somewhere around that of the Clips right now, second tier contenders.
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Playoffs but no ring
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
Interesting. Not that it needs saying but if Sully becomes Perkins (esp. given the surgery) and Green becomes Schrempf (Schrepf was dang good), I'll be pretty happy.
I think that, as others have said, it's all about who else they have. Neither Smith nor Rondo are MJ, Shaq, Larry or Magic. With Sully, Green, Bradley playing key roles, I think they still need another stud to be top tier. One who can shoot a free throw.
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Rondo/Smith would have some similarities to Kidd/K-Mart. A good core for staunch defensive team with a streaky transition-dependent offense.
I'd want a gifted volume scorer to go along with them. Rudy Gay, Danny Granger, Brook Lopez...
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No but a Rondo Smith core with a GOOD center would. Maybe a Dalembert type of guy.
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
Interesting. Not that it needs saying but if Sully becomes Perkins (esp. given the surgery) and Green becomes Schrempf (Schrepf was dang good), I'll be pretty happy.
I think that, as others have said, it's all about who else they have. Neither Smith nor Rondo are MJ, Shaq, Larry or Magic. With Sully, Green, Bradley playing key roles, I think they still need another stud to be top tier. One who can shoot a free throw.
I think Payton was far better than Rondo and Kemp in his prime was far more dominant than Smith. Schrempf was one of the best shooters of all time.
If those two were our best players and KG and Pierce retired, we'd struggle to even make the playoffs. I say 35-45 wins.
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Playoff team? Yes.
Contender? Probably not. You better make sure you get some offensive minded individuals in there.
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If you say no, I don't think we can EVER win one. ;)
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No. They would need a legit number 1 scoring option.
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As much as I love those two players individually, no I don't think so.
IMHO both Rondo and Smith are secondary superstars in the mould of Scottie Pippen. I don't feel either of those guys can cconsistently take over games offensively. Occasionally yes, consistently no.
I believe every contender needs a go-to guy offensively who you can turn to to carry the offense and hit huge shots in the clutch. As long as Pierce is on a basketball court we have that, which is why I still have some faith in us right now. Once Pierce goes we will need a dominant offensive player to take his place, and until we find one we will likely struggle to get past the first round.
On the surface the Rondo / Smith duo looks great - two talented, "do a bit of everything" guys with extreme physical gifts. On paper it would be hard to keep those guys together salary wise and still have the cash to get ourselves the offensive star AND role players we'd need to be a contender
Much as Id love Smith, he makes more sense on a team tho already has a go-to guy and needs a secondary star who can be q second or third scoring option whole doing a bit of everything. The Lakers (Kobe), Clippers (Paul), Knicks (Melo), Bucks (Ellis),Rockets (Harden), Bulls (Rose), Thunder (Durant) and current Celtics (Pierce), are all teams that Smith would be an outstanding fit on. For those teams he can improve them dramatically as a second or third tier scorer, a key rebounder, a defensive presence and a good playmaker in the frontcourt.
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Worst free throw shooting team in history if they were paired.
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Worst free throw shooting team in history if they were paired.
We're actually shooting at a rather decent clip this year (overall) but I wish we were OKC
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
Interesting. Not that it needs saying but if Sully becomes Perkins (esp. given the surgery) and Green becomes Schrempf (Schrepf was dang good), I'll be pretty happy.
I think that, as others have said, it's all about who else they have. Neither Smith nor Rondo are MJ, Shaq, Larry or Magic. With Sully, Green, Bradley playing key roles, I think they still need another stud to be top tier. One who can shoot a free throw.
I think Payton was far better than Rondo and Kemp in his prime was far more dominant than Smith. Schrempf was one of the best shooters of all time.
If those two were our best players and KG and Pierce retired, we'd struggle to even make the playoffs. I say 35-45 wins.
Payton wasn't at the top of his game (career-wise) when the Sonics went to the finals. Compare his career up to the age Rondo is now http://bkref.com/tiny/wuSUX and, while they're pretty similar during the regular season, Rondo clearly has the advantage in the postseason. The year the Sonics went to the finals Payton put up 21/5/7, Rondo put up 17/7/12 last year and was putting up 17/6/11 in 2010 before he picked up an injury in the Orlando series. He's obviously capable of playing on the level Payton was at when the Sonics went to the finals (even if he's not at the level Payton was when he was 30 or so).
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Payton was 6'4" and nasty on the Defense. The glove was bigger, tougher, stronger and probably just as fast. Rondo is smaller, and to me, a much different type of player. Rondo gets nasty once in a while but Payton was nasty 24/7/365. Great bad attitude.
Smith isn't as tall as Kemp was. He's more a fringe 3/4 to me than a true 4 like Kemp.
I'd like the Sonics duo much more, but Rondo JSmoove still sounds pretty exciting to me as well. It would certainly be fun to watch, and hopefully would translate to lots of wins with the right supporting cast.
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
Interesting. Not that it needs saying but if Sully becomes Perkins (esp. given the surgery) and Green becomes Schrempf (Schrepf was dang good), I'll be pretty happy.
I think that, as others have said, it's all about who else they have. Neither Smith nor Rondo are MJ, Shaq, Larry or Magic. With Sully, Green, Bradley playing key roles, I think they still need another stud to be top tier. One who can shoot a free throw.
I think Payton was far better than Rondo and Kemp in his prime was far more dominant than Smith. Schrempf was one of the best shooters of all time.
If those two were our best players and KG and Pierce retired, we'd struggle to even make the playoffs. I say 35-45 wins.
Payton wasn't at the top of his game (career-wise) when the Sonics went to the finals. Compare his career up to the age Rondo is now http://bkref.com/tiny/wuSUX and, while they're pretty similar during the regular season, Rondo clearly has the advantage in the postseason. The year the Sonics went to the finals Payton put up 21/5/7, Rondo put up 17/7/12 last year and was putting up 17/6/11 in 2010 before he picked up an injury in the Orlando series. He's obviously capable of playing on the level Payton was at when the Sonics went to the finals (even if he's not at the level Payton was when he was 30 or so).
On the other hand, Josh Smith isn't even close to the production that Shawn Kemp had up to a similar point in their careers, in the regular season or the postseason. Shawn Kemp's basic stats and advanced stats destroy Smith in pretty much every category.
I can buy a Payton-Rondo comparison. I might even buy the rest of the comparisons, though some of them seem like stretches to me. Kemp-Smith is stretching the bounds of player comparison by an extreme margin.
Josh Smith would have to play to the level of a 95-96 Shawn Kemp for the Celtics to reach a Final with that lineup. (20-11, All-NBA 2nd team, 8th in MVP voting) In which case, he'd be well worth a max contract.
I have a hard time seeing Josh Smith as the 3rd best forward in basketball, which Kemp was during the Sonics trip to the Finals (after Pippen and Malone).
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Short answer: yes.
Josh Smith is one of those that thrives in the right environment (cough... celtic green). Worth a max deal, and he's a freak. And he's huge. Why not?
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LOL at the max deal. He is just as worthy as Rondo's contract (or maybe even cheaper).
If Ainge can build a solid team like the 2004 Pistons, Rondo and Smith can win a championship.
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
Interesting. Not that it needs saying but if Sully becomes Perkins (esp. given the surgery) and Green becomes Schrempf (Schrepf was dang good), I'll be pretty happy.
I think that, as others have said, it's all about who else they have. Neither Smith nor Rondo are MJ, Shaq, Larry or Magic. With Sully, Green, Bradley playing key roles, I think they still need another stud to be top tier. One who can shoot a free throw.
I think Payton was far better than Rondo and Kemp in his prime was far more dominant than Smith. Schrempf was one of the best shooters of all time.
If those two were our best players and KG and Pierce retired, we'd struggle to even make the playoffs. I say 35-45 wins.
Payton wasn't at the top of his game (career-wise) when the Sonics went to the finals. Compare his career up to the age Rondo is now http://bkref.com/tiny/wuSUX and, while they're pretty similar during the regular season, Rondo clearly has the advantage in the postseason. The year the Sonics went to the finals Payton put up 21/5/7, Rondo put up 17/7/12 last year and was putting up 17/6/11 in 2010 before he picked up an injury in the Orlando series. He's obviously capable of playing on the level Payton was at when the Sonics went to the finals (even if he's not at the level Payton was when he was 30 or so).
On the other hand, Josh Smith isn't even close to the production that Shawn Kemp had up to a similar point in their careers, in the regular season or the postseason. Shawn Kemp's basic stats and advanced stats destroy Smith in pretty much every category.
I can buy a Payton-Rondo comparison. I might even buy the rest of the comparisons, though some of them seem like stretches to me. Kemp-Smith is stretching the bounds of player comparison by an extreme margin.
Josh Smith would have to play to the level of a 95-96 Shawn Kemp for the Celtics to reach a Final with that lineup. (20-11, All-NBA 2nd team, 8th in MVP voting) In which case, he'd be well worth a max contract.
I have a hard time seeing Josh Smith as the 3rd best forward in basketball, which Kemp was during the Sonics trip to the Finals (after Pippen and Malone).
I think what you'd need from Smith is the rebounding he put up against the Celts in the playoffs with much better shot selection.
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The can not give you a title.
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Short answer: yes.
Josh Smith is one of those that thrives in the right environment (cough... celtic green). Worth a max deal, and he's a freak. And he's huge. Why not?
I know that everyone is essentially a lose until they win, but I really believe Josh Smith is never going to be a key ingredient to a top tier team.
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I think RR and Smith could be great parts of a championship team, but I agree with other posters in that we need a go-to stud scorer and another playoff caliber quality big to go with them.
I think with one other star level player (preferably a big) they could def be a solid playoff team. A team good enough to contend for a ring? depends on who the other players are.
Rondo and Smith and garbage in the rest of the team is not a playoff team in my opinion. Rondo is my fav player, but you need more than him and Smith.
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Two stubborn guys who can't shoot and think they are superstars? Yep, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Their teammates would hate them and no decent player would ever want to come here and play with them.
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Smith & horford AND Joe Johnson couldn't do much. We'd be awesome if we could replace bass with Smith in our current situation. Rondo & Smith just aren't good enough.
I mean a starting 5 of
Smith
rondo,
Green
Bradley
Gortat
is good but do they challenge Miami and OKC? Perhaps, but they're a 60/40 underdog.
We'd need green to become a 20/7/5 player full time and still we'd need more shooting at the perimeter to be a real threat.
Perhaps Eric Gordon instead of Bradley...just need way more scoring punch with only rondo at point...guys who can ACtually convert rondos passes to points....
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Smith & horford AND Joe Johnson couldn't do much. We'd be awesome if we could replace bass with Smith in our current situation. Rondo & Smith just aren't good enough.
I mean a starting 5 of
Smith
rondo,
Green
Bradley
Gortat
is good but do they challenge Miami and OKC? Perhaps, but they're a 60/40 underdog.
We'd need green to become a 20/7/5 player full time and still we'd need more shooting at the perimeter to be a real threat.
Perhaps Eric Gordon instead of Bradley...just need way more scoring punch with only rondo at point...guys who can ACtually convert rondos passes to points....
I don't care who you have. When your offense is predicated on iso joe then your chances for success are limited.
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Smith & horford AND Joe Johnson couldn't do much. We'd be awesome if we could replace bass with Smith in our current situation. Rondo & Smith just aren't good enough.
I mean a starting 5 of
Smith
rondo,
Green
Bradley
Gortat
is good but do they challenge Miami and OKC? Perhaps, but they're a 60/40 underdog.
We'd need green to become a 20/7/5 player full time and still we'd need more shooting at the perimeter to be a real threat.
Perhaps Eric Gordon instead of Bradley...just need way more scoring punch with only rondo at point...guys who can ACtually convert rondos passes to points....
20 from Green would be nice, I don't see why we'd need a ton of assists and rebounds from him with Rondo, Smith and a center on the team. In any case, if you get 20 from Green, close to that from Smith, 25 or so (combined) from Rondo and another guard and anything at all from your center that's plenty of scoring from your starters. Look at the Celts recently, it's been 19 or so from PP, 16 from Ray, 15 from KG and 11 or so from Rondo. It's not like you need 2-3 elite scorers to replace that.
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Short answer: yes.
Josh Smith is one of those that thrives in the right environment (cough... celtic green). Worth a max deal, and he's a freak. And he's huge. Why not?
I know that everyone is essentially a lose until they win, but I really believe Josh Smith is never going to be a key ingredient to a top tier team.
Not as the leader or second option.
But he could be the third best player on a championship team.
Not worth a max contract though. And I don't think Rondo is either. If he hits free agency after this contract is up, I'd be shocked if some team other than us offered him a max deal.
So investing ~$25-30M a year on these two would indeed be a bad idea.
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Short answer: yes.
Josh Smith is one of those that thrives in the right environment (cough... celtic green). Worth a max deal, and he's a freak. And he's huge. Why not?
I know that everyone is essentially a lose until they win, but I really believe Josh Smith is never going to be a key ingredient to a top tier team.
Not as the leader or second option.
But he could be the third best player on a championship team.
Not worth a max contract though. And I don't think Rondo is either. If he hits free agency after this contract is up, I'd be shocked if some team other than us offered him a max deal.
So investing ~$25-30M a year on these two would indeed be a bad idea.
agree
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All i want is when kg and pp retires, that that team carry on with the same mindset and the same pride that these guys were playing.
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Is there any truth to this new rumor coming about that josh smiths primary destination he wants is the celtics?
So why not play out season and if kg does retire or pay cut or anything can they make it happen? Especially if pierce is only guarenteed 5 mil?
I really feel like ainge has something up his sleeve, I don't think kg mentioning last all star game is just coincidence? Part of trade n then retires cause he bleeds green? I'm sure many of you have this theory as well.
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this duo will win and consistently make the playoffs, around 4th seed maybe with the right mix of players. But it's just not a championship caliber core. Both are impact players and will do extremely well in the secondary star role, but both their games have enough flaws in them that they can't be "franchise players".
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By popular consensus, this would be a playoff team that I'd go for. Having rondo green smith and bradley on the roster could potentially create an attractive destination for players looking for a ring. A discounted contract for smith would help the situation. I say we go for it.
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with rondo hogging the ball
i don't think we can make to playoffs either
we got a good bench players since the start
lee is disappointed
barbosa wants release
milicic has never been used
terry is struggling
what makes you think him and rondo will do well
hahahaha
if pierce was injured
who would you put in? smith at SF
who is your pf?
sully is traded green is traded
bradley is traded also
i repeat
danny ferry is not a ST*PID GM he knows what he is doing
why take an aging pierce and kg, while we are in rebuild mode (RIGHT?)
and why would danny ferry just let smith walked out of the team and not gain something, while brooklyn and suns can give a good players in return? (RIGHT?)
just like letting go of amaire and tyson, without getting something in return, or bosh or lebron, without getting something (RIGHT?)
i will also repeat this, unless kg and pierce are retired traded or waived, that is the time you cam sign smith
but kg and pierce will not retire 100% sure of that
so the only way to get smith
is by blowing up the team
and trading our 1st round picks
and young assets
and josh smith is a weak side shot blocker...
if you fans are thinking lebron vs smith 1 on 1? are you serious?
lebron and smith 1on1?
i'd rather stick to jeff green
or bring back tony allen
100% sure lebron will have a hard time attacking the basket
AGREE WITH ME NOW
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
I'm as big of a Celtics homer as the next guy, but seriously, this comparison makes absolutely no sense. Payton at that point was at the top of his game and so was Kemp(they were complete players at that point). Those 2 were next to unstoppable together that year. Hawkins was coming off a year where he shot 44% from 3, Bradly is nowhere near the shooter he was, Perkins and Detlef were also very good 3 point shooters. All 5 listed players from that Sonics team could score. Big Jeff Green fan but he's nowhere near what Detlef was at that point.
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
I'm as big of a Celtics homer as the next guy, but seriously, this comparison makes absolutely no sense. Payton at that point was at the top of his game and so was Kemp(they were complete players at that point). Those 2 were next to unstoppable together that year. Hawkins was coming off a year where he shot 44% from 3, Bradly is nowhere near the shooter he was, Perkins and Detlef were also very good 3 point shooters. All 5 listed players from that Sonics team could score. Big Jeff Green fan but he's nowhere near what Detlef was at that point.
The Celtics team you list will be a solid team, but will be in that 4-7 range in the Eastern Conference....
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Playoff team? Yes.
Championship Team? Who else is on the squad?
Green = Schrempf
Bradley = Hawkins
Sullinger = Sam Perkins
Rondo = Payton
Smith = Kemp
The 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics were two wins away from World Title against the greatest player ever in Michael Jordan.
I'm as big of a Celtics homer as the next guy, but seriously, this comparison makes absolutely no sense. Payton at that point was at the top of his game and so was Kemp(they were complete players at that point). Those 2 were next to unstoppable together that year. Hawkins was coming off a year where he shot 44% from 3, Bradly is nowhere near the shooter he was, Perkins and Detlef were also very good 3 point shooters. All 5 listed players from that Sonics team could score. Big Jeff Green fan but he's nowhere near what Detlef was at that point.
The Celtics team you list will be a solid team, but will be in that 4-7 range in the Eastern Conference....
Haha it's a down the line thing. Not a right now thing.
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i'd rather have kevin love on my team,
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That group has a serious perimeter shooting deficit, and thus wouldn't sniff the finals, let alone a championship.