CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Chelm on February 13, 2013, 10:49:00 AM
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I know that ± stats are flawed in some way (in that they depend on units, not individuals) but from last night's game (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278490):
Mario Chalmers +41 in 34 minutes.
Norris Cole -28 in 16 minutes.
It seems, from this statistically insignificant data set, that Chalmers makes some sort of difference out there. However, I didn't see the game. Can anyone confirm/deny any visual impact that would shed some light on this? Thoughts?
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Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.
Cole plays with their horrid bench.
There's your answer.
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Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.
Cole plays with their horrid bench.
There's your answer.
If that was true, then why does Lebron only post a +21?
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I could play PG if i had LeBron, Bosh, and Wade
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Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.
Cole plays with their horrid bench.
There's your answer.
If that was true, then why does Lebron only post a +21?
Only?
The above is your answer.
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I know that ± stats are flawed in some way (in that they depend on units, not individuals) but from last night's game (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278490):
Mario Chalmers +41 in 34 minutes.
Norris Cole -28 in 16 minutes.
It seems, from this statistically insignificant data set, that Chalmers makes some sort of difference out there. However, I didn't see the game. Can anyone confirm/deny any visual impact that would shed some light on this? Thoughts?
Those +/- numbers are incredibly noisy. I think that's the real takeaway from those numbers.
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I could play PG if i had LeBron, Bosh, and Wade
Hahaha! Me too! For real.
I won't even have to shoot.
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Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.
Cole plays with their horrid bench.
There's your answer.
If that was true, then why does Lebron only post a +21?
Only?
The above is your answer.
My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.
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My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.
One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.
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Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.
Cole plays with their horrid bench.
There's your answer.
If that was true, then why does Lebron only post a +21?
Because Lebron plays more minutes than the rest of the starters ... and even HE is dragged down by their horrid bench ...
Food for thought:
Lebron has played 38.4 mpg this year in all 49 of Miami's games - in other words, he's played almost 80% of Miami's minutes. (a little less because I'm ignoring OT games).
Lebron's individual ORtg is a ridiculous 124 points per 100 possessions and his DRtg is 103 (using basketball-reference.com numbers). Which means that for every 100 possessions he's been on the floor, the Heat are outscoring their opponents by a freakish +21!
For almost 80% of all their minutes.
But the Miami Heat's team ORtg is 112.3 and it's DRtg is just 105.4. For a NetRtg of just +6.9!
Now, +6.9 is still a very good NetRtg for a team. That definitely makes them a contender.
But boy, does that team suck in the ~20% of their minutes when Lebron is not on the floor.
If Lebron got injured - forget it. That team would be toast. Even with him, they aren't a lock, unless Lebron plays 48 mpg.
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Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.
Cole plays with their horrid bench.
There's your answer.
no one else on the bench was worse than -9. Bosh was at +34, but no other starter was greater than +21. The Chalmers to Norris thing is quite astonishing when you take the entire context. It is just 1 game though.
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My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.
One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.
I stated this in my OP; one game is not significant. But it's still interesting to examine individual games for what they bring. Wilt didn't average 100 points a game, but we still talk about the one that he did. If we didn't discuss intricacies of individual games, why have a forum at all?
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Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.
Cole plays with their horrid bench.
There's your answer.
no one else on the bench was worse than -9. Bosh was at +34, but no other starter was greater than +21. The Chalmers to Norris thing is quite astonishing when you take the entire context. It is just 1 game though.
There is a pretty sizable difference in value between Chalmers and Norris. Norris is a fringe NBA player. Not in the rotation on most teams. Chalmers is a solid if unremarkable point guard who's at his best when expectations of him are lowest.
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My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.
One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.
I stated this in my OP; one game is not significant. But it's still interesting to examine individual games for what they bring. Wilt didn't average 100 points a game, but we still talk about the one that he did. If we didn't discuss intricacies of individual games, why have a forum at all?
Chalmers didn't score 100 in this game either. He played 34 minutes and had 5 points, 2 boards, 4 assists and a steal. He isn't even the primary ball handler on offense. What would you think he could have possibly done to influence the outcome of the game to the extent his +/- numbers are showing?
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My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.
One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.
I stated this in my OP; one game is not significant. But it's still interesting to examine individual games for what they bring. Wilt didn't average 100 points a game, but we still talk about the one that he did. If we didn't discuss intricacies of individual games, why have a forum at all?
Chalmers didn't score 100 in this game either. He played 34 minutes and had 5 points, 2 boards, 4 assists and a steal. He isn't even the primary ball handler on offense. What would you think he could have possibly done to influence the outcome of the game to the extent his +/- numbers are showing?
I don't know, hence the thread.
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My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.
One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.
I stated this in my OP; one game is not significant. But it's still interesting to examine individual games for what they bring. Wilt didn't average 100 points a game, but we still talk about the one that he did. If we didn't discuss intricacies of individual games, why have a forum at all?
Chalmers didn't score 100 in this game either. He played 34 minutes and had 5 points, 2 boards, 4 assists and a steal. He isn't even the primary ball handler on offense. What would you think he could have possibly done to influence the outcome of the game to the extent his +/- numbers are showing?
I don't know, hence the thread.
So you think it's likely that he dominated the game to that level?
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My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.
One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.
I stated this in my OP; one game is not significant. But it's still interesting to examine individual games for what they bring. Wilt didn't average 100 points a game, but we still talk about the one that he did. If we didn't discuss intricacies of individual games, why have a forum at all?
Chalmers didn't score 100 in this game either. He played 34 minutes and had 5 points, 2 boards, 4 assists and a steal. He isn't even the primary ball handler on offense. What would you think he could have possibly done to influence the outcome of the game to the extent his +/- numbers are showing?
I don't know, hence the thread.
So you think it's likely that he dominated the game to that level?
Obviously not, however he could be influencing the game by floor spacing (threatening with the 3 point shot), or through other intangibles. I really have no clue. It is obvious, however, that the Miami Heat were -28 in the 14 minutes he wasn’t on the court, at least 5 of which Lebron was. I didn’t see the game, therefore I have no insight to explain it.