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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: traderondo on February 12, 2013, 06:07:49 PM

Title: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: traderondo on February 12, 2013, 06:07:49 PM
Straight up, does a Rondo for Al Jefferson trade make us better long term?

I personally would love a starting lineup of Bradley, Lee, Green, Sullinger, and Jefferson.  The next step in my rebuilding would be to land a better starting shooting guard than Lee in a trade or signing in the offseason.  Sullinger can hit the outside shot and having a good scoring center alongside him will help him with match ups.  Since Avery can play point or shooting guard you have some flexibility in your signings.

A few free agents they could land might be:

JJ Redick (Very doable and I think a good fit)
Josh Smith (could Happen)
Chris Paul (not happening)
Jrue Holiday

So, do you you trade Rondo for Jefferson and sign or trade for a new guard?
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: esel1000 on February 12, 2013, 06:08:54 PM
Something about Rondo for Big Al just screams bad trade to me...
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: traderondo on February 12, 2013, 06:13:31 PM
Something about Rondo for Big Al just screams bad trade to me...

Minor tweaks of draft picks, or getting back something for Bass might be in the deal, but just that being the focus of the trade I would like the direction. 
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: KG_ended_Bias on February 12, 2013, 06:16:41 PM
I would do Rondo for AL but I don't think it works financially.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: traderondo on February 12, 2013, 06:19:10 PM
I would do Rondo for AL but I don't think it works financially.

Works on the trade checker.  You mean long term planning?

I think the main thing after doing something like this would be trading Bass because we'd have NO use for him next year, and very minimal beyond that.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: dasani on February 12, 2013, 06:22:06 PM
mediocre team for years. jrue holiday is not a free agent. do you mean jennings? and only reason josh smith would sign as a free agent would be if rondo was here. not to pay high taxes and play with such team you mentioned.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BballTim on February 12, 2013, 06:26:08 PM
Straight up, does a Rondo for Al Jefferson trade make us better long term?

I personally would love a starting lineup of Bradley, Lee, Green, Sullinger, and Jefferson.  The next step in my rebuilding would be to land a better starting shooting guard than Lee in a trade or signing in the offseason.  Sullinger can hit the outside shot and having a good scoring center alongside him will help him with match ups.  Since Avery can play point or shooting guard you have some flexibility in your signings.

A few free agents they could land might be:

JJ Redick (Very doable and I think a good fit)
Josh Smith (could Happen)
Chris Paul (not happening)
Jrue Holiday

So, do you you trade Rondo for Jefferson and sign or trade for a new guard?

  That team's got all the upside of the Bucks or possibly the Pacers if you took George off the team.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Who on February 12, 2013, 06:26:59 PM
No
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Celtics18 on February 12, 2013, 06:32:18 PM
Rondo's future was brighter than big Al's back in the summer  of '07.  It still is.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: traderondo on February 12, 2013, 06:37:03 PM
Rondo's future was brighter than big Al's back in the summer  of '07.  It still is.

Rondo has a bright future but he needs great shooters around him.  He has had arguably the best 3-point shooter ever in Ray Allen, and the best shooting center ever in KG.  Jeff Green isn't a great shooter (although good) but he is a great player in open space and can guard 3 positions.  Bradley is not a great shooter either. 

I think it is a lot easier to get a very good center and another good guard than it is to rebuild around Rondo.

Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: KG_ended_Bias on February 12, 2013, 06:43:23 PM
If Utah would do it its a no brainer to me. 20pts 10rebs while sharing minutes can only increase with BIG minutes here. On top of that its exactly what we need is an inside offensive threat in a very weak East with a lack of BIGS. Bye Rondo would be my reply!
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 12, 2013, 06:50:00 PM
No way. Terrible idea for me. Big Al don't play no d.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: CelticHooligan3 on February 12, 2013, 06:51:31 PM
Just had to read the thread to see who proposed this ridiculous trade. Unbeleivable.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 12, 2013, 06:53:35 PM
A few free agents they could land might be:

Chris Paul (not happening)

And this thing is crazy, Rondo is worth WAY more than Mr. J
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: KG_ended_Bias on February 12, 2013, 06:58:39 PM
No way. Terrible idea for me. Big Al don't play no d.
Rondo doesn't either unless he's guarding Lebron or Carmelo & his Napolean complex comes out!
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 12, 2013, 07:01:53 PM
No way. Terrible idea for me. Big Al don't play no d.
Rondo doesn't either unless he's guarding Lebron or Carmelo & his Napolean complex comes out!

He guards the lanes, bro
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: KG_ended_Bias on February 12, 2013, 07:04:56 PM
No way. Terrible idea for me. Big Al don't play no d.
Rondo doesn't either unless he's guarding Lebron or Carmelo & his Napolean complex comes out!

He guards the lanes, bro
No he looks for steals & poke outs from behind, thats not exactly good defense! Any PG gets right around him on the regular which is concerning for a player with Rondo's quickness,speed,arm-length.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 12, 2013, 07:07:51 PM
Build around Bradley and Sullinger is a great plan if you want us to get the number one pick and being in the lottery.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 12, 2013, 07:19:26 PM
Pretty sure I'd be tempted by a trade like this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=at4k9qp

Rondo, Barbosa, Collins, Bass, Fab Melo

for

Jefferson, Kanter, Hayward


You improve your chances greatly to win this year, while acquiring young assets at the same time that should help build your future one way or another.

I see it as the best of both worlds.

You fill wasted roster spaces of injured players with actual healthy players, and still have a lot of room on your roster to sign other players.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: KG_ended_Bias on February 12, 2013, 07:24:26 PM
Pretty sure I'd be tempted by a trade like this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=at4k9qp

Rondo, Barbosa, Collins, Bass, Fab Melo

for

Jefferson, Kanter, Hayward


You improve your chances greatly to win this year, while acquiring young assets at the same time that should help build your future one way or another.

I see it as the best of both worlds.

You fill wasted roster spaces of injured players with actual healthy players, and still have a lot of room on your roster to sign other players.
We couldn't get both bigs & Hayward for that assortment of trash! Wish we could but Utah would tell us never ever ring their lines again.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 12, 2013, 07:39:36 PM
Pretty sure I'd be tempted by a trade like this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=at4k9qp

Rondo, Barbosa, Collins, Bass, Fab Melo

for

Jefferson, Kanter, Hayward


You improve your chances greatly to win this year, while acquiring young assets at the same time that should help build your future one way or another.

I see it as the best of both worlds.

You fill wasted roster spaces of injured players with actual healthy players, and still have a lot of room on your roster to sign other players.
We couldn't get both bigs & Hayward for that assortment of trash! Wish we could but Utah would tell us never ever ring their lines again.

LOL, I agree. But by the same token, it depends on what kind of offers they're getting for Jefferson, someone they seem reluctant to go forward with. And through it all you're getting a premiere PG of the league, despite his partial tear in the ACL, at a discount price which will help keep your salaries low.

Personally, I don't think they're too enamored at paying 4 million+ a year for someone like Kanter, Hayward is good talent for the money, but that's the price one pays to try and acquire players who may change the face of your franchise. Melo sucks, but still a worthwhile project at a low cost to replace Kanter for them.

And there are always picks involved in these sorts of things, and it depends on how teams value them.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: ben on February 12, 2013, 07:46:11 PM
I have NEVER suggested a rondo trade before, loved him since his rookie year and still do...  but here goes

Rondo for Al Jefferson

Courtney lee for Perkins. 

AB 48 minutes
Pierce/terry
Green 48 minutes
KG/jefferson/Bass
Perk/jefferson/wilcox
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: KG_ended_Bias on February 12, 2013, 07:54:06 PM
I have NEVER suggested a rondo trade before, loved him since his rookie year and still do...  but here goes

Rondo for Al Jefferson

Courtney lee for Perkins. 

AB 48 minutes
Pierce/terry
Green 48 minutes
KG/jefferson/Bass
Perk/jefferson/wilcox
we couldn't get Perk for Lee! They have Martin & Lamb as backups & they wouldnt need another SG.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: go11celtics on February 12, 2013, 08:08:07 PM
This is just sad. Some people on here didn't want to move him for cp3, and now people are happy to move him for an above average big. Just plain pathetic.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BballTim on February 12, 2013, 08:40:27 PM
Rondo's future was brighter than big Al's back in the summer  of '07.  It still is.

Rondo has a bright future but he needs great shooters around him.

  No he doesn't, just some good players.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 12, 2013, 08:41:50 PM
No way. Terrible idea for me. Big Al don't play no d.
Rondo doesn't either unless he's guarding Lebron or Carmelo & his Napolean complex comes out!

He guards the lanes, bro
No he looks for steals & poke outs from behind, thats not exactly good defense! Any PG gets right around him on the regular which is concerning for a player with Rondo's quickness,speed,arm-length.

Let Bradley do that. Rondos arms and hands were made for the lanes... Lee and Bradley can be on-ball defenders
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BballTim on February 12, 2013, 08:42:55 PM
No way. Terrible idea for me. Big Al don't play no d.
Rondo doesn't either unless he's guarding Lebron or Carmelo & his Napolean complex comes out!

He guards the lanes, bro
No he looks for steals & poke outs from behind, thats not exactly good defense! Any PG gets right around him on the regular which is concerning for a player with Rondo's quickness,speed,arm-length.

  That probably explains his being on the all-defense team 4 years in a row. The coaches vote on those teams, don't they?
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: lightspeed5 on February 12, 2013, 09:01:05 PM
big al cant play D, and is black hole on offense. did i mention he's slow? no thanks.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 12, 2013, 09:15:56 PM
Not worried about Jefferson's defense, he'll be more than fine next to KG, and he'll be awesome on offense for us.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Celtics18 on February 12, 2013, 09:20:56 PM
Since Al Jefferson left Boston, Rajon Rondo has won 53 playoff games as a member of the Celtics.  Al Jefferson has won zero playoff games in that time as a Timberwolf and a Jazz.

I understand that this is a bit of a cheeky stat to throw out when comparing individual players, but still . . . wow!!
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: European NBA fan on February 12, 2013, 09:44:17 PM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: traderondo on February 12, 2013, 09:53:32 PM
Just had to read the thread to see who proposed this ridiculous trade. Unbeleivable.

Only have to deal with Rondo trades for another few weeks...then its back to lurking for me.  I like Rondo's intensity, I just don't think he fits with Bradley and Green who as a pair are more important to the team than just Rondo. 

Whether you think we could get more, the question is would we be better.  It always seems like nothing is ever enough for Rondo. 

If you say build around Rondo, I'd like to hear how because he clearly doesn't add value to this group of players.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 12, 2013, 09:53:39 PM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

AKA

You don't trade Rondo
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: kg is king on February 12, 2013, 10:01:18 PM
You build around stars in this league, not complementary players. Rondo is the closest thing to a star that we have, so we must build around him unless we find a way to find another young star.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: European NBA fan on February 12, 2013, 10:07:00 PM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

AKA

You don't trade Rondo

Well that might be my answer, if the suggested trade was for LeBron James or Kevin Durant, but I would have to think about it ;)
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: More Banners on February 12, 2013, 10:10:48 PM
Rondo for an established big makes a good amount of sense.

Preferably an impact player, at least on one end, and competent on the other.

Gortat defends, Big Al scores and blocks.

I'd take Big Al because I like him and we need someone to carry some of the scoring load.  Pierce/Terry/KG can only carry so much.  Whatever Green gets seems to come at the expense of one of the other 3; Al Jeff would score in a different way. 

He has great hands, and would be a beast with our team passing moving the ball.  He, like Shaq, needs to be guarded or it's a bucket, and our team would get him the ball.

And he might come back around for less than he's making now.  I wouldn't mind seeing what

Bradley
Lee
Green
Sullinger
Jefferson

with Pierce/KG/JET off the bench can do after this year and next.  I think that could be our team for the next 4 years, contending, with one more utility/4th guard.

The starters would have plenty of perimeter defense and a frontline that can score and rebound (with Sully and AJ).  I think they could grind it out. 

And with the Old 3 hanging around as the star bench?  We'd have a chance in the playoffs for sure.

Trade Rondo.

Gortat and Dragic would be my first choice.

Big Al is 2nd.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: traderondo on February 12, 2013, 10:22:33 PM
Rondo for an established big makes a good amount of sense.

Preferably an impact player, at least on one end, and competent on the other.

Gortat defends, Big Al scores and blocks.

I'd take Big Al because I like him and we need someone to carry some of the scoring load.  Pierce/Terry/KG can only carry so much.  Whatever Green gets seems to come at the expense of one of the other 3; Al Jeff would score in a different way. 

He has great hands, and would be a beast with our team passing moving the ball.  He, like Shaq, needs to be guarded or it's a bucket, and our team would get him the ball.

And he might come back around for less than he's making now.  I wouldn't mind seeing what

Bradley
Lee
Green
Sullinger
Jefferson

with Pierce/KG/JET off the bench can do after this year and next.  I think that could be our team for the next 4 years, contending, with one more utility/4th guard.

The starters would have plenty of perimeter defense and a frontline that can score and rebound (with Sully and AJ).  I think they could grind it out. 

And with the Old 3 hanging around as the star bench?  We'd have a chance in the playoffs for sure.

Trade Rondo.

Gortat and Dragic would be my first choice.

Big Al is 2nd.

Could not have said it better myself.  What I imagine happens when Pierce and KG retiring is that the Celtics have a ton of money left to spend on a star PG, SF, or F to fill out the roster.  There are only a handful of players that can play Center at a high level but a huge number of players that could play either PG or SG.  Having Bradley, Green, Sullinger, and Jefferson to go along with a large contract would be pretty enticing to a lot of players. 

From http://www.sportscity.com/nba/free-agents/2013-top-nba-free-agents/ :

Chris Paul   PG
Manu Ginobili   SG
Andre Iguodala   SG
Brandon Jennings   PG
Tyreke Evans   PG
Andrei Kirilenko   SF
O.J. Mayo   SG
Jose Calderon   PG
Monta Ellis   PG
Kevin Martin   SG
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 12, 2013, 10:33:06 PM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

AKA

You don't trade Rondo
You don't trade a top 10 player for Rajon Rondo. 
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: LarBrd33 on February 12, 2013, 10:44:12 PM
Would I trade Rondo straight-up for Big Al right now?

Yeah, probably.  Quality size ALWAYS is more important in this league than great passing.   

Thing is, if KG and Pierce retire, this team is in the dumps regardless.  Seriously.  Those two are our best players.  If they bail and we're left with Rondo as our cornerstone player, there is pretty much zero chance of us winning a title.  If anything, Rondo would just prolong our suffering by keeping us from a top 5 draft pick.

#1 -  Rondo is injured.  Nobody even wanted to trade for him while he was healthy... who in their right mind would trade from him now?  I'd go for it if offered Big Al. 

#2 - Big Al will make for a fun finish to the season.  I'd love to see how he and KG co-exist.  He'd be the best big KG has ever played next to.

#3 - Big Al is a free agent.  If the whole thing fails, KG and Pierce could retire and we'll start our super-tank rebuild off right with nothing but cap space and lottery dreams. 

#4 - Expanding on the above... if you're looking to go for broke and roll the dice... if we moved Rondo for Big Al and the whole thing failed miserably leading to Pierce and KG retiring... we'd have like only 30 million on the books this offseason (Green, Bass, Lee, Terry, Bradley, Sully, Melo).  Chris Paul and Dwight Howard are unrestricted free agents.  Go after them in a package deal.

Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Celtics18 on February 12, 2013, 11:00:45 PM
Just had to read the thread to see who proposed this ridiculous trade. Unbeleivable.

Only have to deal with Rondo trades for another few weeks...then its back to lurking for me.  I like Rondo's intensity, I just don't think he fits with Bradley and Green who as a pair are more important to the team than just Rondo. 

Whether you think we could get more, the question is would we be better.  It always seems like nothing is ever enough for Rondo. 

If you say build around Rondo, I'd like to hear how because he clearly doesn't add value to this group of players.

I completely disagree.  I think Bradley and Green will fit very well with Rondo on the post Pierce and Garnett Celtics.  I envision a defensive minded, high turnover producing, up-tempo team.  Those three form a good base for such a team.  We'll just need to find some bigs who fit.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: erisred on February 12, 2013, 11:07:32 PM
Pretty sure I'd be tempted by a trade like this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=at4k9qp

Rondo, Barbosa, Collins, Bass, Fab Melo

for

Jefferson, Kanter, Hayward


You improve your chances greatly to win this year, while acquiring young assets at the same time that should help build your future one way or another.

I see it as the best of both worlds.

You fill wasted roster spaces of injured players with actual healthy players, and still have a lot of room on your roster to sign other players.
Well sure! But the Jazz wouldn't do that.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 12, 2013, 11:09:53 PM
Just had to read the thread to see who proposed this ridiculous trade. Unbeleivable.

Only have to deal with Rondo trades for another few weeks...then its back to lurking for me.  I like Rondo's intensity, I just don't think he fits with Bradley and Green who as a pair are more important to the team than just Rondo. 

Whether you think we could get more, the question is would we be better.  It always seems like nothing is ever enough for Rondo. 

If you say build around Rondo, I'd like to hear how because he clearly doesn't add value to this group of players.

I completely disagree.  I think Bradley and Green will fit very well with Rondo on the post Pierce and Garnett Celtics.  I envision a defensive minded, high turnover producing, up-tempo team.  Those three form a good base for such a team.  We'll just need to find some bigs who fit.

I also like a Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sully core, but I'm really worried about floor spacing.  We'd either need this guys to increase their range, or have a really good shooting bench.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: kozlodoev on February 12, 2013, 11:10:58 PM
I completely disagree.  I think Bradley and Green will fit very well with Rondo on the post Pierce and Garnett Celtics.  I envision a defensive minded, high turnover producing, up-tempo team.  Those three form a good base for such a team.  We'll just need to find some bigs who fit.
So you envision trading Rondo? Seems a bit contradictory.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Celtics18 on February 12, 2013, 11:28:36 PM
I completely disagree.  I think Bradley and Green will fit very well with Rondo on the post Pierce and Garnett Celtics.  I envision a defensive minded, high turnover producing, up-tempo team.  Those three form a good base for such a team.  We'll just need to find some bigs who fit.
So you envision trading Rondo? Seems a bit contradictory.

Nope.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 12, 2013, 11:29:07 PM
So we trade Rondo who is very productive and has shown that he can take over games, on a bargain contract  for Al who may be a double double guy but plays no defense and will command massive amounts of salary going forward?

No thanks.

Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Atzar on February 12, 2013, 11:30:33 PM
I completely disagree.  I think Bradley and Green will fit very well with Rondo on the post Pierce and Garnett Celtics.  I envision a defensive minded, high turnover producing, up-tempo team.  Those three form a good base for such a team.  We'll just need to find some bigs who fit.
So you envision trading Rondo? Seems a bit contradictory.

The thing is, Rondo can do all of those things.  Rondo can be great at all of those things.

He just didn't do it this year. 
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: chambers on February 12, 2013, 11:32:42 PM
Screams troll post lol
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Levis107 on February 13, 2013, 09:04:32 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Celtics18 on February 13, 2013, 09:12:32 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.

The defense was playing well before Rondo went down.  We were 7th in the league in defensive rating when Rondo got injured.  That's where we are now. 
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Fafnir on February 13, 2013, 09:15:31 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.

The defense was playing well before Rondo went down.  We were 7th in the league in defensive rating when Rondo got injured.  That's where we are now.
Yeah while the Bradley/Lee pairing plays more consistent defense than Rondo has this season remember that him being out meant more minutes for Barbosa ( :'()/Terry.

Since January our defense has been very good.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Fafnir on February 13, 2013, 09:19:31 AM
I'm not interested in acquiring Jefferson. While perhaps this year it'd be a good fit going forward I don't like the idea of building around Jefferson. He's not a good fit with Sullinger as neither is very mobile big man.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BballTim on February 13, 2013, 09:23:15 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.

The defense was playing well before Rondo went down.  We were 7th in the league in defensive rating when Rondo got injured.  That's where we are now.
Yeah while the Bradley/Lee pairing plays more consistent defense than Rondo has this season remember that him being out meant more minutes for Barbosa ( :'()/Terry.

Since January our defense has been very good.

  They've recently updated the 82games numbers, but around the time Rondo went down (1/28 or so) the Celts less than 1 ppp better with him on the bench than with him on the court. Considering that Rondo had played just over 40% of his minutes with KG on the bench those numbers were pretty good. Rondo just wasn't the problem on defense that everyone claimed that he was.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: scaryjerry on February 13, 2013, 09:25:10 AM
Big Al is a big ole loser

Dying to go back to 2006 form I see
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BballTim on February 13, 2013, 09:27:25 AM
Just had to read the thread to see who proposed this ridiculous trade. Unbeleivable.

Only have to deal with Rondo trades for another few weeks...then its back to lurking for me.  I like Rondo's intensity, I just don't think he fits with Bradley and Green who as a pair are more important to the team than just Rondo. 


  If Bradley and Green are going to pair up to dominate playoff games (and series) like Rondo does we'll be in great shape when May/June roll around. The odds of it happening are pretty remote though.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: go11celtics on February 13, 2013, 09:31:57 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember Jefferson ever winning a game 7 on his own, or dropping 44 against the heat. I'll keep rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Levis107 on February 13, 2013, 09:44:19 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.

The defense was playing well before Rondo went down.  We were 7th in the league in defensive rating when Rondo got injured.  That's where we are now.

Since Rondo went down, in regulation (not including the Denver OTs) the Celtics opponent average is 91 PPG. For the season, they are at 96. The numbers don't lie, the D has been better.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: mmmmm on February 13, 2013, 09:55:53 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.

The defense was playing well before Rondo went down.  We were 7th in the league in defensive rating when Rondo got injured.  That's where we are now.

Since Rondo went down, in regulation (not including the Denver OTs) the Celtics opponent average is 91 PPG. For the season, they are at 96. The numbers don't lie, the D has been better.

Nope.  The defense has surrendered ~91 ppg consistently since the beginning of January.  Well before Rondo left.

Another key measure is that our opponent FG% has been a super-stingy <42% pretty continuously during that same stretch (which would lead the league if it were our overall season rating).

The improvement in the defense has far more to do with:

a) Bradley's return
b) The new guys finally learning how to play Doc's system and
c) Doc no longer experimenting with some really bad defensive lineups like he did early in the season.

Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Levis107 on February 13, 2013, 10:00:35 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.

The defense was playing well before Rondo went down.  We were 7th in the league in defensive rating when Rondo got injured.  That's where we are now.

Since Rondo went down, in regulation (not including the Denver OTs) the Celtics opponent average is 91 PPG. For the season, they are at 96. The numbers don't lie, the D has been better.

Nope.  The defense has surrendered ~91 ppg consistently since the beginning of January.  Well before Rondo left.

Another key measure is that our opponent FG% has been a super-stingy <42% pretty continuously during that same stretch (which would lead the league if it were our overall season rating).

The improvement in the defense has far more to do with:

a) Bradley's return
b) The new guys finally learning how to play Doc's system and
c) Doc no longer experimenting with some really bad defensive lineups like he did early in the season.

You're right, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that Courtney Lee is a better ball defender than Rondo.

I forgot I'm on a message board that was outraged that there were talks of a Rondo/CP3 trade. Are you also in the group of people who thinks the Celtics have simply just "figured it out" and would have anyway with Rondo?
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Fafnir on February 13, 2013, 10:01:31 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.

The defense was playing well before Rondo went down.  We were 7th in the league in defensive rating when Rondo got injured.  That's where we are now.

Since Rondo went down, in regulation (not including the Denver OTs) the Celtics opponent average is 91 PPG. For the season, they are at 96. The numbers don't lie, the D has been better.
Pace matters a lot, the C's are averageing about 2 points better in defensive rating since he's go down compared to our performance in January/February before the injury.

But given the strength of schedule and 5-2 Home-away split I don't think we should read too much into a 2 point DRTG bump just yet. Probably just a blip over a small sample, maybe we'll maintain that level of improvement maybe not.

Since January we've been defending at a rate comparable to the Pacers for best defense in the league at a 99.5 ish DRTG
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: BballTim on February 13, 2013, 10:06:04 AM
You don't trade Rondo unless you get a top ten player back.

Why? Rondo isn't a Top 10 player.

Also the people above defending Rondo's defense, do you watch the game? Rondo is a horrible ball defender and the reason the defense has been playing so well in his absence has been the pairing of Lee and Bradley.

The defense was playing well before Rondo went down.  We were 7th in the league in defensive rating when Rondo got injured.  That's where we are now.

Since Rondo went down, in regulation (not including the Denver OTs) the Celtics opponent average is 91 PPG. For the season, they are at 96. The numbers don't lie, the D has been better.

Nope.  The defense has surrendered ~91 ppg consistently since the beginning of January.  Well before Rondo left.

Another key measure is that our opponent FG% has been a super-stingy <42% pretty continuously during that same stretch (which would lead the league if it were our overall season rating).

The improvement in the defense has far more to do with:

a) Bradley's return
b) The new guys finally learning how to play Doc's system and
c) Doc no longer experimenting with some really bad defensive lineups like he did early in the season.

  If you want to look at when the defense started improving it was early/mid-December. Like everything else it started out inconsistently and with fits and starts. We'd go through 3-4 game stretches of great defense followed by a couple of bad games. Near the end of November the defense was probably 20th or so, we got close to 10th or so by mid-late December.
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: kozlodoev on February 13, 2013, 10:15:13 AM
I completely disagree.  I think Bradley and Green will fit very well with Rondo on the post Pierce and Garnett Celtics.  I envision a defensive minded, high turnover producing, up-tempo team.  Those three form a good base for such a team.  We'll just need to find some bigs who fit.
So you envision trading Rondo? Seems a bit contradictory.

The thing is, Rondo can do all of those things.  Rondo can be great at all of those things.

He just didn't do it this year.
I know he can. But that's beside the point if he doesn't, and he hasn't pretty much since 2010 or so.

As a matter of fact, most of the time he looks like he's purposefully coasting on defense so that he can spend more effort on his ball-dominating offense (talk about not getting the best of both worlds).
Title: Re: Rondo for Al Jefferson, build around Bradley, Sullinger and Green
Post by: Moranis on February 13, 2013, 10:58:30 AM
I'd probably do something like this

UTA - Rondo, Terry, Green, Barbosa (for salary)
BOS - Jefferson, Mar. Williams, Burks, Watson/Foye

Marvin Williams and Jeff Green are fairly identical players, but Williams has 2 less years on his contract.  Jefferson is a monster down low, pushes KG back to PF, which helps the team immensely. Burks has shown promise as a young PG prospect and then you add Watson (or Foye) for depth.  Trade also adds 2 active players to the roster to greatly help with the depth

Boston seems like it is closer to a title this year and has a lot more long term flexibility by shortening or removing long contracts for shorter/smaller ones.

PG - Bradley, Burks, Watson
SG - Lee, Bradley
SF - Pierce, Williams
PF - Garnett, Bass, Williams
C - Jefferson, Garnett, Wilcox, Melo