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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: The One on February 11, 2013, 08:24:43 AM

Title: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: The One on February 11, 2013, 08:24:43 AM
I say that due to yesterday's 3OT game, they shouldn't play KG or Pierce.

Give them the night off.  Let the rest of the guys carry the load against the vaunted Bobcats!

That is exactly what Pop would do.  And it has paid dividends physically and emotionally for the Spurs.

Now the question is, what about you, Doc?

What are you going to do?


Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: wdleehi on February 11, 2013, 08:32:16 AM
Only two games until the break. 



Have them play, but try to limit their minutes.



7 game win streak.  Let them try to get it to 9 by the break.  They could be the 6th seed by then.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 11, 2013, 08:41:32 AM
My initial thought in the 3rd overtime last night was rest KG and Pierce.

But that quickly changed before the game ended into what wdleehi said.

Limit their minutes get the streak going into the all star break. Rest over the weekend. Come back strong and keep the streak going.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: CFAN38 on February 11, 2013, 08:45:59 AM
I think they should start out the game with the normal rotation. When terry and green come in get a read on the game. If green is playin well then keep Paul minutes under 25 and see if green can be the go to guy. Kg should also be kept under 25 min regardless of how the other bigs are playing.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 11, 2013, 08:47:17 AM
If we make it 9......

Just make it 9. Play them for 20 minutes.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Fafnir on February 11, 2013, 08:48:27 AM
Play em, just have a quick hook and try and limit their minutes.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: scaryjerry on February 11, 2013, 09:02:41 AM
Sadly he will run them into the ground

I'd be impressed if he didn't
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: CoachCowens on February 11, 2013, 09:03:34 AM
From someone going to the game tonight. This is the worst idea ever.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: The One on February 11, 2013, 09:04:20 AM
I just don't think Doc is capable of limiting their minutes.  He talks a good game about that, but when push comes to shove, he will play to win.  Which I don't think is necessarily wrong, they should try to win every game.  But in the big picture, they should get a rest tonight.

I think it works best when you go into the game knowing that they're not playing at all.  Wilcox and Collins will have to hold down the fort...as ugly as that sounds.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: kgainez on February 11, 2013, 09:09:28 AM
I, too, think they should play and rest for the sake of rhythm...but I am also concerned they will play for forever. if this was the last game before the break, i'd say don't play them. but i think positioning them for closer to 6th if not 6th right now is very important.

we don't have a large margin of error now. plus PP is kind of like our new facilitator
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 11, 2013, 09:13:40 AM
Id sit KG for a few more minutes than normal since he has to participate in the All Star game.

Im all for sitting Paul but wdleehi was right. Play Jeff Green a ton. The next game.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: sofutomygaha on February 11, 2013, 09:20:35 AM
I'm in for this. I'd consider giving Green and Wilcox the start, and giving Barbosa good minutes.

Is Melo still with the team right now or did he go back up to Maine?
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Humble G on February 11, 2013, 11:29:22 AM
I'm in for this. I'd consider giving Green and Wilcox the start, and giving Barbosa good minutes.

Is Melo still with the team right now or did he go back up to Maine?

Good question about melo. IDK the answer but it might be nice for him to get some mins tonight. I know he is very raw but so is most of the bobcats team
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 11, 2013, 11:35:12 AM
lets win this game .........C's are now right in the thick of the race, a few more wins and we'll be ready to make the final charge to position.

Never give away the games that you should win.......

still need every win......C's not the heat....C's can't afford to coast

make hay ,get wins
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: kozlodoev on February 11, 2013, 11:37:31 AM
Even with the double overtime, Pierce is averaging 37 mpg and Garnett is averaging 30.5 mpg over the last 5 contests.

It's tough having to fly and play a relatively early game today, but I wouldn't be too concerned.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Kane3387 on February 11, 2013, 11:39:31 AM
I would rest KG, but the issue is it leaves us with bigs of Collins, Wilcox, and Bass.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: rickyfan3.0... on February 11, 2013, 11:48:59 AM
I sort of agree here, but right now I think this streak is pretty important to the team. Look how hard they fought last night...

Part of me feels like this is partly smoke and mirrors, but the belief in 'team' is keeping this going. I fear that one bad L could change that...
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: droopdog7 on February 11, 2013, 12:06:16 PM
I think they should start out the game with the normal rotation. When terry and green come in get a read on the game. If green is playin well then keep Paul minutes under 25 and see if green can be the go to guy. Kg should also be kept under 25 min regardless of how the other bigs are playing.
I remember they tried this last year.  It failed miserably on two counts.  Doc saw that the second team could not compete then he tried to bring back the first team troups to take the game.  We ended up losing and the first team didn't get their rest.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: azzenfrost on February 11, 2013, 12:24:53 PM
Let them play and see. Doc knows his players enough to get them some rest when they need it. KG didn't ask for a breather during last night's OT fest but Doc had him sit for a few anyway. It worked too.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 11, 2013, 12:32:07 PM
 Without these guys I do not see us winning.   Maybe play a half?
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: wdleehi on February 11, 2013, 12:39:40 PM
Play to win. 


Hopefully put this team down in the 1st quarter.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: kgainez on February 11, 2013, 12:58:44 PM
the more I think about it, yea...I think we should play to win
knock this game out...then we have 2 days rest to play the Bulls at home..

and then you have the week off for All Star...which everyone except KG gets off. and I'd be dumb to think he's going to play lots of minutes in the ASG

I'd rather try a 9 game win streak than win 7 or 8 out of 9 before we have all this time to rest up.

PTW!!
PTW!!
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: cletus1985 on February 11, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
I'd put it on the young guys, start the game as usual and tell them if they keep the lead above 6 points they get the rest of the minutes and our vets get a much needed rest. Let them know you don't want to see KG, PP, or Jet in the game after the 1st quarter.

Hopefully that motivation would result in hustle and effort and a double digit lead the whole game.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 11, 2013, 01:11:09 PM
Pop gets fined 250k for sitting four guys.

Suppose Doc plays KG and Pierce for the first five minutes and then sits them. Does that merit a fine?

Suppose he plays them for the first five minutes of each half. Then what?

I'm trying to illustrate how nonsensical this whole policy is.

Back on topic, I actually think that if we're going to sit our guys we should sit Pierce in the Chicago game. That would give him 7 straight days off.

KG is a tougher call, because he will be in the AS game so he's playing no matter what.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 11, 2013, 01:54:11 PM
Pop really didn't get fined for sitting guys. He was fined, first because it was a nationally televised game, in addition to not informing the league prior to deciding to do so.

Personally I don't think they should've been fined for coaching their team, but if all it would've taken was prior notification to the league, then I think that's a small inconvenience to undertake.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Donoghus on February 11, 2013, 02:08:14 PM
Play them limited minutes.  But play them.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: kozlodoev on February 11, 2013, 02:10:47 PM
Pop really didn't get fined for sitting guys. He was fined, first because it was a nationally televised game, in addition to not informing the league prior to deciding to do so.

Personally I don't think they should've been fined for coaching their team, but if all it would've taken was prior notification to the league, then I think that's a small inconvenience to undertake.
There's no telling what he was fined for.

He has no obligation to report roster decisions to the league. Or to get approval for them, for that matter.

He has no obligation to sacrifice long-term performance based on what the league wants to showcase in a nationally televized game.

All in all, he was fined for, to quote David Stern, "doing a disservice to the league and the fans" which is completely and utterly ridiculous. But then again, he had to be made an example of.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: OsirusCeltics on February 11, 2013, 02:28:45 PM
I rather them try to push the streak to 9, then get all the rest when the all star break comes

That way, they'll have ALL of the momentum when the break is over
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: kozlodoev on February 11, 2013, 02:42:45 PM
I would rest KG, but the issue is it leaves us with bigs of Collins, Wilcox, and Bass.
And Melo. He got recalled yesterday.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: wdleehi on February 11, 2013, 02:44:27 PM
Other thing to remember, the Spurs are usually at the top of the standings where they can afford to rest guys.



The Celtic's are 7th.  They need to improve their standing right now.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: The One on February 11, 2013, 02:54:45 PM
Other thing to remember, the Spurs are usually at the top of the standings where they can afford to rest guys.



The Celtic's are 7th.  They need to improve their standing right now.

True, but if they are not going to be given the day off ( a la Popovich) on the 2nd night of a back to back after a 3OT game.  Then they will never be given the day off.

Now is the perfect time.


Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 11, 2013, 03:15:58 PM
I would rest KG, but the issue is it leaves us with bigs of Collins, Wilcox, and Bass.
And Melo. He got recalled yesterday.

I think that's solid enough to compete with the Charlotte Bobcats.

This may be a trap game, but the Bobcats are last in the standings, worst team in the league two years in a row and last in every Power Rankings for a reason
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 11, 2013, 03:17:49 PM
Oh yeah... we did this last year against the Bobcats too. Bradley dominated with 22 points, I think... Bass had a big game too.

Maybe this will bring them into dominance again!
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: KGs Knee on February 11, 2013, 04:01:08 PM
My hope is both get the night off.  Realistically, at the very least, KG should.  My guess is neither get the night off, it's not Doc's style.

The only rest to be had is by blowing the doors off the Bob's, and having plenty of garbage time.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Onslaught on February 11, 2013, 04:27:21 PM
I'm going to the game so I'd like to see them play some. Hopefully the Bobcats won't put up much of a fight so they can have limited minutes.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: LooseCannon on February 11, 2013, 04:34:11 PM
How many minutes should Jason Collins play tonight?
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 11, 2013, 04:34:59 PM
How many minutes should Jason Collins play tonight?

20!
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: slamtheking on February 11, 2013, 04:56:59 PM
Start them as usual, hope they can apply themselves to building a lead over an inferior team, and if they can accomplish that in short minutes, run the bench for the majority of the game. 

Green, Lee, Bradley, Barbosa, Bass and Wilcox/Collins for the bulk of the game would be fine by me.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: GreenEnvy on February 11, 2013, 05:29:06 PM
Other thing to remember, the Spurs are usually at the top of the standings where they can afford to rest guys.



The Celtic's are 7th.  They need to improve their standing right now.

True, but if they are not going to be given the day off ( a la Popovich) on the 2nd night of a back to back after a 3OT game.  Then they will never be given the day off.

Now is the perfect time.

He's rested KG, Pierce, Rondo, and Allen at the end of the year a few seasons when we had nothing to play for. If/when we get locked into a seed, both guys will rest.

I expect to get about 12 minutes in the first half out of KG, and no more than 15 from Pierce. Assuming they are quality minutes, we build a nice lead, let them start the second half, and sit the 4th. I would like pierce around 24 and KG 20, but if this turns into a tight game who knows. Either way, I doubt Doc plays them for more than 30-32 minutes.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Who on February 11, 2013, 05:32:58 PM
Play them. Don't risk a very winnable game.

Not secure enough in the team's ability to beat Charlotte without Garnett. Rest Pierce / Garnett against a top side that you are likely to lose.

Just make sure you have enough to get a win against this horrid team. Maybe lower their minutes. Especially Pierce since he has an excellent replacement in Jeff Green. Unfortunately, there isn't much big man quality outside of KG so it may prove difficult to lower his minutes much.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: LooseCannon on February 11, 2013, 06:08:23 PM
Play them. Don't risk a very winnable game.

Yeah, pulling a Popovich would be more like resting them in the second game of a back-to-back against the Lakers on the road.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 11, 2013, 06:09:59 PM
Don't play Rondo or Sully.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 11, 2013, 07:11:21 PM
Pop really didn't get fined for sitting guys. He was fined, first because it was a nationally televised game, in addition to not informing the league prior to deciding to do so.

Personally I don't think they should've been fined for coaching their team, but if all it would've taken was prior notification to the league, then I think that's a small inconvenience to undertake.
There's no telling what he was fined for.

He has no obligation to report roster decisions to the league. Or to get approval for them, for that matter.

He has no obligation to sacrifice long-term performance based on what the league wants to showcase in a nationally televized game.

All in all, he was fined for, to quote David Stern, "doing a disservice to the league and the fans" which is completely and utterly ridiculous. But then again, he had to be made an example of.

Well, you also left off what was mentioned prior to that quote:

""The result here is dictated by the totality of the facts in this case. The Spurs decided to make four of their top players unavailable for an early-season game that was the team's only regular-season visit to Miami. The team also did this without informing the Heat, the media, or the league office in a timely way. Under these circumstances, I have concluded that the Spurs did a disservice to the league and our fans.""
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: KGs Knee on February 11, 2013, 07:19:04 PM
Pop really didn't get fined for sitting guys. He was fined, first because it was a nationally televised game, in addition to not informing the league prior to deciding to do so.

Personally I don't think they should've been fined for coaching their team, but if all it would've taken was prior notification to the league, then I think that's a small inconvenience to undertake.
There's no telling what he was fined for.

He has no obligation to report roster decisions to the league. Or to get approval for them, for that matter.

He has no obligation to sacrifice long-term performance based on what the league wants to showcase in a nationally televized game.

All in all, he was fined for, to quote David Stern, "doing a disservice to the league and the fans" which is completely and utterly ridiculous. But then again, he had to be made an example of.

Well, you also left off what was mentioned prior to that quote:

""The result here is dictated by the totality of the facts in this case. The Spurs decided to make four of their top players unavailable for an early-season game that was the team's only regular-season visit to Miami. The team also did this without informing the Heat, the media, or the league office in a timely way. Under these circumstances, I have concluded that the Spurs did a disservice to the league and our fans.""

So essentially, according to Czar Stern, the entertainment interests of the league are more important than the actual basketball interests of one of it's teams.

The NBA might as well just flat out admit they want to be the WWE. 
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: KGs Knee on February 11, 2013, 07:25:20 PM
Play them. Don't risk a very winnable game.

Yeah, pulling a Popovich would be more like resting them in the second game of a back-to-back against the Lakers on the road.

Well, it's pretty brilliant if you aske me.  First, your vets get the rest they need/deserve.  Secondly, as far as odds go, it's better to "give up" the game you had a greater chance of losing in the first place.  Thirdly, if you do somehow manage to win the game, despite resting your best players, the confidence gained is immeasureable.

Not really rocket surgery, but apparently Pops is the only one bold enough to try it.  Just one of many reasons he is head and shoulders above all other coaches currently in the league.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: LooseCannon on February 11, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Well, it's the coaching equivalent of a player taking it easy one some plays during a game to try and ensure he has more energy later in the game, tactically deciding when and when not to give 100% effort.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 11, 2013, 08:57:44 PM

Well, it's pretty brilliant if you ask me...  Secondly, as far as odds go, it's better to "give up" the game you had a greater chance of losing in the first place.

From a statistical perspective this is not quite right.

It's better to sit them in the game where their absence increases the chances of losing by the least.

This may or may not be the game against the better opponent.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: KGs Knee on February 11, 2013, 09:03:00 PM

Well, it's pretty brilliant if you ask me...  Secondly, as far as odds go, it's better to "give up" the game you had a greater chance of losing in the first place.

From a statistical perspective this is not quite right.

It's better to sit them in the game where their absence increases the chances of losing by the least.

This may or may not be the game against the better opponent.

Sounds like the exact same thing to me, just worded differently.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 11, 2013, 09:10:45 PM

Well, it's pretty brilliant if you ask me...  Secondly, as far as odds go, it's better to "give up" the game you had a greater chance of losing in the first place.

From a statistical perspective this is not quite right.

It's better to sit them in the game where their absence increases the chances of losing by the least.

This may or may not be the game against the better opponent.

Sounds like the exact same thing to me, just worded differently.

It's not.

Let me give an example.

Suppose if you don't sit anyone, you have a 70% chance of losing to the good team, and a 30% chance of losing to the bad team.

And, suppose if you sit players against the good team your chance of losing only goes to 80%, while if you sit players against the bad team your chance of losing goes up to 60%.

Better to sit players against the good team. You only increase your chance of losing by 10% instead of 30%.

What the numbers look like will depend on the actual games, and how much the percentages change will depend on a lot of things (like match ups at each position).

But the principle should be based on the change in the chances of losing.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: KGs Knee on February 11, 2013, 09:22:45 PM

Well, it's pretty brilliant if you ask me...  Secondly, as far as odds go, it's better to "give up" the game you had a greater chance of losing in the first place.

From a statistical perspective this is not quite right.

It's better to sit them in the game where their absence increases the chances of losing by the least.

This may or may not be the game against the better opponent.

Sounds like the exact same thing to me, just worded differently.

It's not.

Let me give an example.

Suppose if you don't sit anyone, you have a 70% chance of losing to the good team, and a 30% chance of losing to the bad team.

And, suppose if you sit players against the good team your chance of losing only goes to 80%, while if you sit players against the bad team your chance of losing goes up to 60%.

Better to sit players against the good team. You only increase your chance of losing by 10% instead of 30%.

What the numbers look like will depend on the actual games, and how much the percentages change will depend on a lot of things (like match ups at each position).

But the principle should be based on the change in the chances of losing.

The end result is still the same as I suggested.  The chances of the way you are explaining it having a different outcome are probably non-existant.

Not worth my time to continue to debate something that Doc doesn't do anyway.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 11, 2013, 09:29:29 PM

Well, it's pretty brilliant if you ask me...  Secondly, as far as odds go, it's better to "give up" the game you had a greater chance of losing in the first place.

From a statistical perspective this is not quite right.

It's better to sit them in the game where their absence increases the chances of losing by the least.

This may or may not be the game against the better opponent.

Sounds like the exact same thing to me, just worded differently.

It's not.

Let me give an example.

Suppose if you don't sit anyone, you have a 70% chance of losing to the good team, and a 30% chance of losing to the bad team.

And, suppose if you sit players against the good team your chance of losing only goes to 80%, while if you sit players against the bad team your chance of losing goes up to 60%.

Better to sit players against the good team. You only increase your chance of losing by 10% instead of 30%.

What the numbers look like will depend on the actual games, and how much the percentages change will depend on a lot of things (like match ups at each position).

But the principle should be based on the change in the chances of losing.

The end result is still the same as I suggested.  The chances of the way you are explaining it having a different outcome are probably non-existant.

Not worth my time to continue to debate something that Doc doesn't do anyway.

Well, if the numbers were different the right answer would be different.

If sitting players against the good team increased your chances of losing to 100%, and sitting them against the bad team increased your chances of losing to 40% (which seems entirely possible to me), then you'd be better off sitting them against the bad team.
Title: Re: Pull a Pop(ovich). Don't play KG or Pierce tonight!
Post by: The One on February 11, 2013, 09:39:13 PM
They should have gotten their rest.  Ultimately, they played and lost.  What a waste!!