Celtics Blog Forums

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 12:20:12 PM

Title: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 12:20:12 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 09, 2013, 12:26:50 PM
Oh boy, so many things in this post i wanna pick apart but i don't feel like typing that much. Everything the agent said is 100 percent on the mark. I can't be mad at him for not wearing his green colored goggles while talking about this celtics team.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 12:30:51 PM
Oh boy, so many things in this post i wanna pick apart but i don't feel like typing that much. Everything the agent said is 100 percent on the mark. I can't be mad at him for not wearing his green colored goggles while talking about this celtics team.

i mean i expect him to take up for his guy. that's not the issue. my issue is I'm wondering if Rondo is pulling a David Ruffin.

And if so, at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic about Rondo's talents and the season with which we got a ring?????

If regular season wins weren't useful, how about when play offs come we just raffle to see who gets to play who? how about everyone get a shot at the playoffs, no seeding? that's just an awful argument to me.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: dark_lord on February 09, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
so rondo isn't listening to the talks, yet the agent decided to make a statement  :-\


i think we are better without him, for the regular season, but we will miss him for the playoffs
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 09, 2013, 12:31:57 PM
Maybe you might think his agent is out of line saying this in the media but at least he is being truthful and saying what everyone already knows.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 12:35:02 PM
Maybe you might think his agent is out of line saying this in the media but at least he is being truthful and saying what everyone already knows.

that's an awful argument lol

i think our play off run may be a tinch easier with Rondo but everyone is making it seem like we are getting swept first round. like there's no one (or two people) in the world that can avg 10 points and 6 assists on our current roster.

how is going 6-0 with several convincing wins to be taken with a grain of salt? who REALLY isn't being realistic here?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 12:35:52 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

  I'm not necessarily expecting it to happen but I *definitely* hope we win it all this year, just like I do every year.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 12:37:19 PM
Maybe you might think his agent is out of line saying this in the media but at least he is being truthful and saying what everyone already knows.

that's an awful argument lol

i think our play off run may be a tinch easier with Rondo but everyone is making it seem like we are getting swept first round. like there's no one (or two people) in the world that can avg 10 points and 6 assists on our current roster.

  We only need 10/6 from Rondo in the playoffs to win it all, as long as other people can play like the 2008 versions of KG/PP/RA. Who do you have in mind for those roles? More bench players?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 12:42:57 PM
Maybe you might think his agent is out of line saying this in the media but at least he is being truthful and saying what everyone already knows.

that's an awful argument lol

i think our play off run may be a tinch easier with Rondo but everyone is making it seem like we are getting swept first round. like there's no one (or two people) in the world that can avg 10 points and 6 assists on our current roster.

  We only need 10/6 from Rondo in the playoffs to win it all, as long as other people can play like the 2008 versions of KG/PP/RA. Who do you have in mind for those roles? More bench players?

For one, I fully expect JET to turn all the way up for the play offs. We've seen him with the Mavs.

Secondly, this system is not like that system from the Big 3 era. It's finally changed and I think it suits the folks in this system. You still have KG and PP who clearly still have something left in the tank. If they're healthy come play off time, I obviously expect them to give their all. You have other vets like LB (olympic competitor) and JET who have been here before. Jeff and BB have some play off experience. We know how tough AB is. We just have to hope someone gets Courtney's mind right for this experience.

I don't think it's farfetched. We have nights where we win with balanced scoring. We have nights where we see vintage PP and KG. We have nights where the bench outscores the starters. All are great signs.

How is this not real?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 09, 2013, 12:46:31 PM
Maybe you might think his agent is out of line saying this in the media but at least he is being truthful and saying what everyone already knows.

that's an awful argument lol

i think our play off run may be a tinch easier with Rondo but everyone is making it seem like we are getting swept first round. like there's no one (or two people) in the world that can avg 10 points and 6 assists on our current roster.

  We only need 10/6 from Rondo in the playoffs to win it all, as long as other people can play like the 2008 versions of KG/PP/RA. Who do you have in mind for those roles? More bench players?

For one, I fully expect JET to turn all the way up for the play offs. We've seen him with the Mavs.

Secondly, this system is not like that system from the Big 3 era. It's finally changed and I think it suits the folks in this system. You still have KG and PP who clearly still have something left in the tank. If they're healthy come play off time, I obviously expect them to give their all. You have other vets like LB (olympic competitor) and JET who have been here before. Jeff and BB have some play off experience. We know how tough AB is. We just have to hope someone gets Courtney's mind right for this experience.

I don't think it's farfetched. We have nights where we win with balanced scoring. We have nights where we see vintage PP and KG. We have nights where the bench outscores the starters. All are great signs.

How is this not real?

You do know that Courtney Lee played a contributing role to a Magic's team that went to the finals right?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: manl_lui on February 09, 2013, 12:48:03 PM
while what he says is true...but its one thing to think about it, and another to actually open your big mouth about it

yes Rondo is a playoff superstar, but man saying that openly will just rub people in the locker room and the organization the wrong way!
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 12:48:47 PM
Maybe you might think his agent is out of line saying this in the media but at least he is being truthful and saying what everyone already knows.

that's an awful argument lol

i think our play off run may be a tinch easier with Rondo but everyone is making it seem like we are getting swept first round. like there's no one (or two people) in the world that can avg 10 points and 6 assists on our current roster.

  We only need 10/6 from Rondo in the playoffs to win it all, as long as other people can play like the 2008 versions of KG/PP/RA. Who do you have in mind for those roles? More bench players?

For one, I fully expect JET to turn all the way up for the play offs. We've seen him with the Mavs.

Secondly, this system is not like that system from the Big 3 era. It's finally changed and I think it suits the folks in this system. You still have KG and PP who clearly still have something left in the tank. If they're healthy come play off time, I obviously expect them to give their all. You have other vets like LB (olympic competitor) and JET who have been here before. Jeff and BB have some play off experience. We know how tough AB is. We just have to hope someone gets Courtney's mind right for this experience.

I don't think it's farfetched. We have nights where we win with balanced scoring. We have nights where we see vintage PP and KG. We have nights where the bench outscores the starters. All are great signs.

How is this not real?

You do know that Courtney Lee played a contributing role to a Magic's team that went to the finals right?

I just realized that. But thank you for pointing that out
TP for you.

But that was once wasn't it? In 2009?
Still...then...we have guys with the experience.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 12:50:44 PM
while what he says is true...but its one thing to think about it, and another to actually open your big mouth about it

yes Rondo is a playoff superstar, but man saying that openly will just rub people in the locker room and the organization the wrong way!

i agree. and it's obvious we already have an emotional bunch.
just like trade rumors and people calling KG old get him playing out of this world, this may get someone else playing out of this world.

On the flipside, it could damage some people. just a reckless thing to say.

these guys are building up their confidence. you, a rep for RR, pretty much just said it doesn't mean anything. that's not good.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: ScoobyDoo on February 09, 2013, 12:51:53 PM
It's a different team without Rondo. Maybe better, maybe not, time will tell.

Bradley brings very different things to the table than Rondo.
 
With Rondo, we seem to more of a point guard dominant team. With Bradley we seem to more of a defensive, motion offense type of team.

To be honest, as much as I love Rondo, I kind of enjoy watching this team more - I just like the shared effort, everyone seems much more animated and involved, invested.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: ssspence on February 09, 2013, 12:55:21 PM
I suspect Duffy's phone will be ringing from a 617 area code very shortly for a quick chat about his comments. Just a dumb thing to say, and what's worse, a further implication of his clients growing reputation as a less than stellar team player.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Donoghus on February 09, 2013, 12:55:50 PM
He's saying what he's paid to do as an agent.

Of course, he's going to talk up his client and I think there are a lot of fans out there thinking the same thing;  what's going on now is all fun & good but the playoffs are a different animal and that's when the absense of Rondo will be felt most.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: ScottHow on February 09, 2013, 12:58:27 PM
I didn't see anything wrong with the statement. Rondo does step up in the playoffs and that will be when we miss him most.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 12:59:10 PM
He's saying what he's paid to do as an agent.

Of course, he's going to talk up his client and I think there are a lot of fans out there thinking the same thing;  what's going on now is all fun & good but the playoffs are a different animal and that's when the absense of Rondo will be felt most.

says who? says what?
everyone's gut?

like i said...road to 18 is a tinch easier with Rondo than without. But it isn't impossible esp with this group and the way we've been playing - moreso DEFENSIVELY than OFFENSIVELY.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: action781 on February 09, 2013, 12:59:15 PM
Quote
“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

This really rubbed me the wrong way too.  I understand its his job to pump up his client and not support the celtics, but the completely unsupportive nature of it annoys me. 
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Roy H. on February 09, 2013, 12:59:43 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 01:00:48 PM
while what he says is true...but its one thing to think about it, and another to actually open your big mouth about it

yes Rondo is a playoff superstar, but man saying that openly will just rub people in the locker room and the organization the wrong way!

  I'd guess there are quite a few people in the locker room and the organization who aren't all that thrilled with the way people are bashing Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:02:20 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

i guess i agree with that
are we better without rondo? prolly not
are we PLAYING better without rondo? absolutely

Also, we've gone 17-10 without Rondo since he's been here, I believe. That's a winning 60+% record.

I think we're disregarding how much this team NEEDED to pull together. Chemistry is one thing that can't really be put in numbers, but it's VERY important.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:03:10 PM
Quote
“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

This really rubbed me the wrong way too.  I understand its his job to pump up his client and not support the celtics, but the completely unsupportive nature of it annoys me.

I agree. it's unsupportive.
I understand he's an agent, but are you really going to diss the organization that's paying your client $11mil?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 09, 2013, 01:04:21 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 09, 2013, 01:07:07 PM
When we lose in the second round because we didn't have Rondo's playmaking ability, I'm going to bump this thread, just for giggles.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:10:50 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Donoghus on February 09, 2013, 01:12:00 PM
He's saying what he's paid to do as an agent.

Of course, he's going to talk up his client and I think there are a lot of fans out there thinking the same thing;  what's going on now is all fun & good but the playoffs are a different animal and that's when the absense of Rondo will be felt most.

says who? says what?
everyone's gut?

like i said...road to 18 is a tinch easier with Rondo than without. But it isn't impossible esp with this group and the way we've been playing - moreso DEFENSIVELY than OFFENSIVELY.

Yes, there are actually people out there who doubt this team's ability to win Banner 18 this year with the absence of Rondo.  You need only to look at these boards to realize that.

Gut, intuition, call it whatever you want. 
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:13:08 PM
When we lose in the second round because we didn't have Rondo's playmaking ability, I'm going to bump this thread, just for giggles.

if Rondo comes back and we win nothing, I'm going to bump this thread.

If we get to the ECF or Finals at all, I'm going to bump this thread.

Rondo is great. He's not a god, though. I fully expect people to continue to step up.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 09, 2013, 01:13:15 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

All the wins were great.  Unfortunately, this team cares more about playoff wins, and we won't be getting many of those without Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 09, 2013, 01:13:51 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: staticcc on February 09, 2013, 01:15:37 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

Just look at the last four years for evidence. We always have winning and losing streaks. And they all mean a little. It's all about the playoffs: match-ups and experience.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:16:08 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

All the wins were great.  Unfortunately, this team cares more about playoff wins, and we won't be getting many of those without Rondo.

that's nothing you can be solid on. inconclusive!
we shall see
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:19:22 PM
hold on. I'm not saying the 6 game winning streak means we are going to win it all.

Let's be REALISTIC, if we thought a team that sat at 20-23 WITH RONDO was going to win Banner 18 as they played, then we were all in for a special treat.

What I'm saying is, the 6 game winning streak is evidence that this team is actually making a REAL turn around. Our previous 6 game winning streak, we had 3 convincing wins and 3 that really sucked. Then we turned around and started a losing streak my losing to the Hornets.

We are winning games we should. Giving our all consistently in games with higher competition. Everyone is locked in and focused now. Everyone is being utilized now. That's just what it is.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: staticcc on February 09, 2013, 01:21:13 PM
hold on. I'm not saying the 6 game winning streak means we are going to win it all.

Let's be REALISTIC, if we thought a team that sat at 20-23 WITH RONDO was going to win Banner 18 as they played, then we were all in for a special treat.

What I'm saying is, the 6 game winning streak is evidence that this team is actually making a REAL turn around. Our previous 6 game winning streak, we had 3 convincing wins and 3 that really sucked. Then we turned around and started a losing streak my losing to the Hornets.

We are winning games we should. Giving our all consistently in games with higher competition. Everyone is locked in and focused now. Everyone is being utilized now. That's just what it is.

There's no turn around or whatever. It's "make it to the playoffs, do not get matched up against the Heat" and get to the ECF and see what happens.

With or without Rondo, I think we have a chance as long as we get there and get the right match-ups. Losing KG or PP on the other hand would mean a whole different thing.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 09, 2013, 01:23:40 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

Duffy is right. It will be drastically harder to win a championship without Rondo, than with Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:24:23 PM
hold on. I'm not saying the 6 game winning streak means we are going to win it all.

Let's be REALISTIC, if we thought a team that sat at 20-23 WITH RONDO was going to win Banner 18 as they played, then we were all in for a special treat.

What I'm saying is, the 6 game winning streak is evidence that this team is actually making a REAL turn around. Our previous 6 game winning streak, we had 3 convincing wins and 3 that really sucked. Then we turned around and started a losing streak my losing to the Hornets.

We are winning games we should. Giving our all consistently in games with higher competition. Everyone is locked in and focused now. Everyone is being utilized now. That's just what it is.

There's no turn around or whatever. It's "make it to the playoffs, do not get matched up against the Heat" and get to the ECF and see what happens.

With or without Rondo, I think we have a chance as long as we get there and get the right match-ups. Losing KG or PP on the other hand would mean a whole different thing.

I can agree with this.
Though I think there's a turn around :) lol
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: vinnie on February 09, 2013, 01:25:46 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 09, 2013, 01:26:45 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

Duffy is right. It will be drastically harder to win a championship without Rondo, than with Rondo.

"Harder" is one thing, saying we can't win without Rondo is another.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 09, 2013, 01:27:23 PM
He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?

Well, that was years ago. Lots of players are having AMAZING statlines like Durant, Duncan, Kobe, Melo, Paul, [every player who wasn't on the 2012 Heat, 2011 Mavs, 2010 Lakers].... Rondo was obviously not the most important in 2008 but...

He is definitely very, very important now. Take away Mike Miller from the Heat and they aren't top contenders.

Take away Nick Collison from the Thunder and they're not as good as a top contender.

Take away Matt Barnes from the Clippers and they're not as good as contenders.

Take away Darrell Arthur from the Grizzlies and they're not as good as contenders.

These are all 7th-8th men yet they are crucial to a team's championship success. Rondo was a top-3 player on our team when we weren't even contenders, and yet we don't need him to win a championship?

Our chances go down with him out, and that's obvious imo. BUT DONT GET ME WRONG: I still think we can win with our current team
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:29:30 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

you only think things that you agree with are sane lol.
this team doesn't need Rondo to be ball dominant in regular season or play offs. We don't need him to do crazy things for us to win. He's had trib dubs and 30+ games that we've all lost. why?

I think this team still has as decent a shot with or without Rondo. I agree the record isn't conclusive...but it isn't conclusive for either argument for or against Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:32:22 PM
He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?

Take away Mike Miller from the Heat and they aren't top contenders.

Take away Nick Collison from the Thunder and they're not as good as a top contender.

Take away Matt Barnes from the Clippers and they're not as good as contenders.

Take away Darrell Arthur from the Grizzlies and they're not as good as contenders.

These are all 7th-8th men yet they are crucial to a team's championship success. Rondo was a top-3 player on our team when we weren't even contenders, and yet we don't need him to win a championship?

Our chances go down with him out, and that's obvious imo. BUT DONT GET ME WRONG: I still think we can win with our current team

no...all those teams are fine. you could argue matt barnes but i think those teams are fine
and Rondo wasn't a top 3 player...he was 4th to the big 3...i don't even think he was 4th lol.

i agree with your last sentiment though.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 09, 2013, 01:33:02 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

you only think things that you agree with are sane lol.
this team doesn't need Rondo to be ball dominant in regular season or play offs. We don't need him to do crazy things for us to win. He's had trib dubs and 30+ games that we've all lost. why?

I think this team still has as decent a shot with or without Rondo. I agree the record isn't conclusive...but it isn't conclusive for either argument for or against Rondo.

I think all we can do is keep Rondo until next year and see how it goes.

As of now, he's not playing, and we should be worrying about what we have.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 09, 2013, 01:33:36 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

We lost in 7 games against the Magic, in the 2nd round, and they went to the finals.

We also lost Powe in the first round.

We were also relying on Scalabrine who returned during the playoffs after suffering some concussions, and if reports are to be believed, was playing with the symptoms still.

We were playing without a back-up SF, Tony was hurt and Doc didn't trust him, none of our rookies were prepared to at least give us a few minutes, and we only had Scal.

Pierce was out of gas, Rondo got hurt if I'm not mistaken during the playoffs.

The point is, a lot more happened to us that year other than losing Garnett, and yet, we performed at a high level when it counted, we just fell short in  a series that I still think we should've won.

That said, no way in hell we were better without KG and agree with the premise, but just like back then, it would be a mistake to underestimate this team just because a star player goes down. So while 10-1 wasn't representative of us playing better, it did show us how this team could still be dangerous come playoff time, and the same applies to us right now.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 09, 2013, 01:34:11 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

We lost in 7 games against the Magic, in the 2nd round, and they went to the finals.

We also lost Powe in the first round.

We were also relying on Scalabrine who returned during the playoffs after suffering some concussions, and if reports are to be believed, was playing with the symptoms still.

We were playing without a back-up SF, Tony was hurt and Doc didn't trust him, none of our rookies were prepared to at least give us a few minutes, and we only had Scal.

Pierce was out of gas, Rondo got hurt if I'm not mistaken during the playoffs.

The point is, a lot more happened to us that year other than losing Garnett, and yet, we performed at a high level when it counted, we just fell short in  a series that I still think we should've won.

That said, no way in hell we were better without KG and agree with the premise, but just like back then, it would be a mistake to underestimate this team just because a star player goes down. So while 10-1 wasn't representative of us playing better, it did show us how this team could still be dangerous come playoff time, and the same applies to us right now.

It really is all about the resilience of this team. 6-0!
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:35:17 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

We lost in 7 games against the Magic, in the 2nd round, and they went to the finals.

We also lost Powe in the first round.

We were also relying on Scalabrine who returned during the playoffs after suffering some concussions, and if reports are to be believed, was playing with the symptoms still.

We were playing without a back-up SF, Tony was hurt and Doc didn't trust him, none of our rookies were prepared to at least give us a few minutes, and we only had Scal.

Pierce was out of gas, Rondo got hurt if I'm not mistaken during the playoffs.

The point is, a lot more happened to us that year other than losing Garnett, and yet, we performed at a high level when it counted, we just fell short in  a series that I still think we should've won.

That said, no way in hell we were better without KG and agree with the premise, but just like back then, it would be a mistake to underestimate this team just because a star player goes down. So while 10-1 wasn't representative of us playing better, it did show us how this team could still be dangerous come playoff time, and the same applies to us right now.

welp, you get a TP
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 09, 2013, 01:41:53 PM
hold on. I'm not saying the 6 game winning streak means we are going to win it all.

Let's be REALISTIC, if we thought a team that sat at 20-23 WITH RONDO was going to win Banner 18 as they played, then we were all in for a special treat.

What I'm saying is, the 6 game winning streak is evidence that this team is actually making a REAL turn around. Our previous 6 game winning streak, we had 3 convincing wins and 3 that really sucked. Then we turned around and started a losing streak my losing to the Hornets.

We are winning games we should. Giving our all consistently in games with higher competition. Everyone is locked in and focused now. Everyone is being utilized now. That's just what it is.

Oh ok then well in that case maybe. I'm not convinced we've turned it around yet either tho. If we have a good roadtrip *Its coming up* ill be convinced.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: manl_lui on February 09, 2013, 01:45:33 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?

I'd also like to add, the Heat game was the first game Rondo has went down, and we needed something completely new to face the Heat. We would've beat the Heat in regulation if it wasn't for a few defense mistakes, but after that game, we have been rolling

does it mean we are better with Rondo, NO, of course not...Rondo always shows up during playoffs, so therefore we need Rondo

but it does mean Rondo needs to adapt to this current system, and we should not have him pound the ball so much
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 01:53:28 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?

I'd also like to add, the Heat game was the first game Rondo has went down, and we needed something completely new to face the Heat. We would've beat the Heat in regulation if it wasn't for a few defense mistakes, but after that game, we have been rolling

does it mean we are better with Rondo, NO, of course not...Rondo always shows up during playoffs, so therefore we need Rondo

but it does mean Rondo needs to adapt to this current system, and we should not have him pound the ball so much

that's a new perspective. i think the heat is one of the teams we need to absolutely beat the Heat...but I can see your point. We definitely found a way to win.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: jbaerg on February 09, 2013, 01:54:16 PM
I'm a big fan of the argument that even though this team is playing extremely well, the team has unlimited potential with Rondo (when he buys into the system)
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 09, 2013, 01:56:48 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?

I'd also like to add, the Heat game was the first game Rondo has went down, and we needed something completely new to face the Heat. We would've beat the Heat in regulation if it wasn't for a few defense mistakes, but after that game, we have been rolling

does it mean we are better with Rondo, NO, of course not...Rondo always shows up during playoffs, so therefore we need Rondo

but it does mean Rondo needs to adapt to this current system, and we should not have him pound the ball so much

With the way we're playing, one would think we're playing a different sport than basketball!
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Fafnir on February 09, 2013, 02:20:03 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

We lost in 7 games against the Magic, in the 2nd round, and they went to the finals.

We also lost Powe in the first round.

We were also relying on Scalabrine who returned during the playoffs after suffering some concussions, and if reports are to be believed, was playing with the symptoms still.

We were playing without a back-up SF, Tony was hurt and Doc didn't trust him, none of our rookies were prepared to at least give us a few minutes, and we only had Scal.

Pierce was out of gas, Rondo got hurt if I'm not mistaken during the playoffs.

The point is, a lot more happened to us that year other than losing Garnett, and yet, we performed at a high level when it counted, we just fell short in  a series that I still think we should've won.

That said, no way in hell we were better without KG and agree with the premise, but just like back then, it would be a mistake to underestimate this team just because a star player goes down. So while 10-1 wasn't representative of us playing better, it did show us how this team could still be dangerous come playoff time, and the same applies to us right now.
We almost lost to the Bulls in the first round, we also went from a +8 scoring differential (elite like 07-08) to a mere +2 differential.

We still matched up well with Howard's magic that year due to our ability to guard Howard. Only Rashard caused us issues and that's what generally beat us that series.

LBJ's Cavs would have chewed us up and spit us out without KG to play help defense against him.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 09, 2013, 02:24:14 PM
Quote
LBJ's Cavs would have chewed us up and spit us out without KG to play help defense against him.

They would have ate us alive without Rondo too.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on February 09, 2013, 02:38:17 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

The bolded part is a good point, BUT - if one looked closely in that clinching game 6 vs LA in 07-08, Rajon Rondo flirted with a QUADRUPLE double in that game - 21 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists, SIX STEALS, only 1 TO. Perhaps the one bad was 8-20 shooting, but everything else points to, to me at least, a VERY under-rated performance.

We had KG, Ray and Paul and those three were still very close to their primes, so I can understand a bit why Rondo's performance could be overlooked.

As for his agent? Well, I'd say he's doing what any good agent would do - protecting his client.

My observation in regards to the win streak w/without Rondo? It should be looked at both ways, here - Rajon Rondo DOES dominate a the ball A BIT...as a maturing player, I'd hope he realizes this and perhaps consult with Doc, KG and Paul and continue to become a better player.

But we must NOT blind ourselves, here...my opinion is that - based off of how we've played since Rondo got hurt - there IS an extremely small shot at getting to June 2013 without him...part of that is my Green Koolaid I drink often, and another part is the fact that the team IS playing VERY WELL right now...beating MIA, Lakers (still a dangerous team), a revamped and better TOR in TOR, plus I think we've gotten sharper defensively.

Having Rajon Rondo opens that window up a bit for us.

He WILL be missed dearly...."How" much is dependent upon how this team continues to play without him and how much they "want" it.

We DO, IMO - Need Rajon Rondo going forward. The only player I'd perhaps trade him for is Chris Paul.

He is  - IMO - "That" good.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 09, 2013, 02:46:08 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

We lost in 7 games against the Magic, in the 2nd round, and they went to the finals.

We also lost Powe in the first round.

We were also relying on Scalabrine who returned during the playoffs after suffering some concussions, and if reports are to be believed, was playing with the symptoms still.

We were playing without a back-up SF, Tony was hurt and Doc didn't trust him, none of our rookies were prepared to at least give us a few minutes, and we only had Scal.

Pierce was out of gas, Rondo got hurt if I'm not mistaken during the playoffs.

The point is, a lot more happened to us that year other than losing Garnett, and yet, we performed at a high level when it counted, we just fell short in  a series that I still think we should've won.

That said, no way in hell we were better without KG and agree with the premise, but just like back then, it would be a mistake to underestimate this team just because a star player goes down. So while 10-1 wasn't representative of us playing better, it did show us how this team could still be dangerous come playoff time, and the same applies to us right now.
We almost lost to the Bulls in the first round, we also went from a +8 scoring differential (elite like 07-08) to a mere +2 differential.

We still matched up well with Howard's magic that year due to our ability to guard Howard. Only Rashard caused us issues and that's what generally beat us that series.

LBJ's Cavs would have chewed us up and spit us out without KG to play help defense against him.

All true, yet I would've relished the chance to try. We did beat the Cavs that season though without KG once. Not that it means much, but considering how the Cavs played through that season, it was an accomplishment. We did have Powe though back then, and the Cavs really had no answer for him.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 09, 2013, 03:02:23 PM
Maybe you might think his agent is out of line saying this in the media but at least he is being truthful and saying what everyone already knows.

that's an awful argument lol

i think our play off run may be a tinch easier with Rondo but everyone is making it seem like we are getting swept first round. like there's no one (or two people) in the world that can avg 10 points and 6 assists on our current roster.

how is going 6-0 with several convincing wins to be taken with a grain of salt? who REALLY isn't being realistic here?

You're argument is based on 5 years ago when rondo was surrounded by 3 first ballot hall of famers in the last year of their prime in his second Nba season... Well duh... Of course his stats are going to be "regular" it doesn't take away how important he was to the team at that time.

Currently Rondo is our most talented player. To say that the Celtics are "nothing without him" is a) putting words in his mouth that he has never said and B) somewhat silly. But regardless he is still a major focal point of the team and the team will suffer from his absence in the long run without him, just like we would if any other key member went down.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 09, 2013, 03:08:04 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

This is the exact stat I was going to look for. We played amazing without KG for a big stretch. But we ended up coming short in the playoffs missing a huge focal point of our unit.

Do I think this squad could probably make a run to the finals and surprise some people and win?...Yes.
If we do in fact win, would it have been easier to do so with Rondo? ...Yes.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 09, 2013, 03:13:25 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

This is the exact stat I was going to look for. We played amazing without KG for a big stretch. But we ended up coming short in the playoffs missing a huge focal point of our unit.

Do I think this squad could probably make a run to the finals and surprise some people and win?...Yes.
If we do in fact win, would it have been easier to do so with Rondo? ...Yes.

See, the second part is debatable. The first part isn't.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: albas89 on February 09, 2013, 03:35:24 PM
This is the exact stat I was going to look for. We played amazing without KG for a big stretch. But we ended up coming short in the playoffs missing a huge focal point of our unit.
Actually I think that Leon Powe's injury cost the Celtics a lot, despite Garnett's absence. With a healthy Leon they would definitely beat the Bulls a lot easier, and maybe beat the Magic and the Cavs as well. You can't expect to make a serious championship run playing Scal+Mikki Moore for 45 mins per game and with a sophomore Big Baby as your starter...
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: blink on February 09, 2013, 03:35:34 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?

I'd also like to add, the Heat game was the first game Rondo has went down, and we needed something completely new to face the Heat. We would've beat the Heat in regulation if it wasn't for a few defense mistakes, but after that game, we have been rolling

does it mean we are better with Rondo, NO, of course not...Rondo always shows up during playoffs, so therefore we need Rondo

but it does mean Rondo needs to adapt to this current system, and we should not have him pound the ball so much

I tend to take the middle ground like this post.  From the eye test, obviously we seem to be coming together as a team.  But I don't really see this as a Rondo issue, it is the whole team's issue.

I believe we are NOT better without RR, especially in the playoffs.  I just really hope Rajon is watching these games and learning about how he can help the team even more during his absence. 

Maybe Rondo can use this to be more aware about helping lead his team, and helping people stay involved and understand their role.  But there is also a responsibility for our role players to know that shouldn't take losing Rondo for them to step up and give 100% and find your role / niche.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CoachBo on February 09, 2013, 03:44:03 PM
I suspect Duffy's phone will be ringing from a 617 area code very shortly for a quick chat about his comments. Just a dumb thing to say, and what's worse, a further implication of his clients growing reputation as a less than stellar team player.
Pretty much, although Duffy's not saying anything that any Celtics fan not awash in manlove doesn't know already.

"My guy is a dominant player WHEN HE WANTS TO PLAY."

Duffy's just saying what some of us have known for years. No biggie.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 09, 2013, 05:02:56 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

My concern is moreso that he said "you can rake the regular season with a grain of salt".  If this is feedback from Rondo being forwarded through his agent, then that pretty much confirms the thought that he doesn't care about the regular season, and only bothers to play in playoff games, or games against playoff teams.  I don't like that "choose which games you play in" attitude at all because you need to beat teams in the regular season in order to make the playoffs.

If this (as many of us feared) really is his attitude I would trade him now.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: vinnie on February 09, 2013, 05:07:04 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

you only think things that you agree with are sane lol.
this team doesn't need Rondo to be ball dominant in regular season or play offs. We don't need him to do crazy things for us to win. He's had trib dubs and 30+ games that we've all lost. why?

I think this team still has as decent a shot with or without Rondo. I agree the record isn't conclusive...but it isn't conclusive for either argument for or against Rondo.

Roy makes two points I agree with. At one time, when the Celts lost KG, they had a 10-1 record without him. Second, I think you might want to wait until the playoffs without Rondo before proclaiming anything about this team.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: badshar on February 09, 2013, 05:28:31 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

you only think things that you agree with are sane lol.
this team doesn't need Rondo to be ball dominant in regular season or play offs. We don't need him to do crazy things for us to win. He's had trib dubs and 30+ games that we've all lost. why?

I think this team still has as decent a shot with or without Rondo. I agree the record isn't conclusive...but it isn't conclusive for either argument for or against Rondo.

Roy makes two points I agree with. At one time, when the Celts lost KG, they had a 10-1 record without him. Second, I think you might want to wait until the playoffs without Rondo before proclaiming anything about this team.

you've proclaimed lots about the team. I'm doing nothing that you haven't done.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 05:35:35 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

My concern is moreso that he said "you can rake the regular season with a grain of salt".  If this is feedback from Rondo being forwarded through his agent, then that pretty much confirms the thought that he doesn't care about the regular season, and only bothers to play in playoff games, or games against playoff teams.  I don't like that "choose which games you play in" attitude at all because you need to beat teams in the regular season in order to make the playoffs.

If this (as many of us feared) really is his attitude I would trade him now.

idk about trading him but that is concerning. i mean...what is with that attitude?
i don't get that.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 05:40:48 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

My concern is moreso that he said "you can rake the regular season with a grain of salt".  If this is feedback from Rondo being forwarded through his agent, then that pretty much confirms the thought that he doesn't care about the regular season, and only bothers to play in playoff games, or games against playoff teams.  I don't like that "choose which games you play in" attitude at all because you need to beat teams in the regular season in order to make the playoffs.

If this (as many of us feared) really is his attitude I would trade him now.

  Aside from the fact that you have no idea whether Rondo had anything to do with that comment, are you advocating trading all of the players who seem to have stepped up while Rondo's out? Do we need players on offense who play harder only when they have a bigger role on offense?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 05:46:23 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

My concern is moreso that he said "you can rake the regular season with a grain of salt".  If this is feedback from Rondo being forwarded through his agent, then that pretty much confirms the thought that he doesn't care about the regular season, and only bothers to play in playoff games, or games against playoff teams.  I don't like that "choose which games you play in" attitude at all because you need to beat teams in the regular season in order to make the playoffs.

If this (as many of us feared) really is his attitude I would trade him now.

  Aside from the fact that you have no idea whether Rondo had anything to do with that comment, are you advocating trading all of the players who seem to have stepped up while Rondo's out? Do we need players on offense who play harder only when they have a bigger role on offense?

I think this is debateable for a couple reasons. Doc's system to use role players for one or two things. It feels like many of them are not allowed to or don't feel comfortable playing outside of what the system says. For example, JET running all those double screens like Ray did -- that's not his game but that's what he has to do. As much as I hate the PP iso, he has to do it even if he may not want to.

I think these players aren't playing harder but they're playing FREER. They're playing to their strengths and don't have as many things holding them back. And as I've said before the only thing they have to step up to do is rebound.

Jeff Green was a puppet in the corner. If he did cut, Rondo almost always looked him off. Jet was being utilized as a spot up shooter, not much of a creator. So forth and so on.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 05:52:26 PM
I suspect Duffy's phone will be ringing from a 617 area code very shortly for a quick chat about his comments. Just a dumb thing to say, and what's worse, a further implication of his clients growing reputation as a less than stellar team player.
Pretty much, although Duffy's not saying anything that any Celtics fan not awash in manlove doesn't know already.

"My guy is a dominant player WHEN HE WANTS TO PLAY."

Duffy's just saying what some of us have known for years. No biggie.

  Rondo's not the first player in nba history that plays big in important games but he's probably the first such player that's regularly attacked for it by a large segment of his own team's fans.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 05:57:25 PM
I suspect Duffy's phone will be ringing from a 617 area code very shortly for a quick chat about his comments. Just a dumb thing to say, and what's worse, a further implication of his clients growing reputation as a less than stellar team player.
Pretty much, although Duffy's not saying anything that any Celtics fan not awash in manlove doesn't know already.

"My guy is a dominant player WHEN HE WANTS TO PLAY."

Duffy's just saying what some of us have known for years. No biggie.

  Rondo's not the first player in nba history that plays big in important games but he's probably the first such player that's regularly attacked for it by a large segment of his own team's fans.

lol
i love how people rationalize the idea that fans shouldn't get on Rondo for being the diva he is.

We are fans. We want wins in the regular season as well as post season. Why is this a bad thing? We want bragging rights. We want to say our player is definitely better than your player.

OKC gets to play hard. Spurs play hard. Heat are coasting a bit but they do know how to play hard when need be. Nuggets are playing hard. Clippers are playing hard.

Cuz Boston has 17 banners, we just supposed to coast and what not? I hate that line of thinking. I really do. Guys don't respect us. We are only as good as our record.

I want rondo to play great all the time. be consistent. and then turn up in the play offs. why is this wrong of me?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 06:01:56 PM
I suspect Duffy's phone will be ringing from a 617 area code very shortly for a quick chat about his comments. Just a dumb thing to say, and what's worse, a further implication of his clients growing reputation as a less than stellar team player.
Pretty much, although Duffy's not saying anything that any Celtics fan not awash in manlove doesn't know already.

"My guy is a dominant player WHEN HE WANTS TO PLAY."

Duffy's just saying what some of us have known for years. No biggie.

  Rondo's not the first player in nba history that plays big in important games but he's probably the first such player that's regularly attacked for it by a large segment of his own team's fans.

lol
i love how people rationalize the idea that fans shouldn't get on Rondo for being the diva he is.

We are fans. We want wins in the regular season as well as post season. Why is this a bad thing? We want bragging rights. We want to say our player is definitely better than your player.

OKC gets to play hard. Spurs play hard. Heat are coasting a bit but they do know how to play hard when need be. Nuggets are playing hard. Clippers are playing hard.

Cuz Boston has 17 banners, we just supposed to coast and what not? I hate that line of thinking. I really do. Guys don't respect us. We are only as good as our record.

I want rondo to play great all the time. be consistent. and then turn up in the play offs. why is this wrong of me?
[/quote

  What was that about the Heat?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 06:06:29 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

My concern is moreso that he said "you can rake the regular season with a grain of salt".  If this is feedback from Rondo being forwarded through his agent, then that pretty much confirms the thought that he doesn't care about the regular season, and only bothers to play in playoff games, or games against playoff teams.  I don't like that "choose which games you play in" attitude at all because you need to beat teams in the regular season in order to make the playoffs.

If this (as many of us feared) really is his attitude I would trade him now.

  Aside from the fact that you have no idea whether Rondo had anything to do with that comment, are you advocating trading all of the players who seem to have stepped up while Rondo's out? Do we need players on offense who play harder only when they have a bigger role on offense?

I think this is debateable for a couple reasons. Doc's system to use role players for one or two things. It feels like many of them are not allowed to or don't feel comfortable playing outside of what the system says. For example, JET running all those double screens like Ray did -- that's not his game but that's what he has to do. As much as I hate the PP iso, he has to do it even if he may not want to.

I think these players aren't playing harder but they're playing FREER. They're playing to their strengths and don't have as many things holding them back. And as I've said before the only thing they have to step up to do is rebound.

Jeff Green was a puppet in the corner. If he did cut, Rondo almost always looked him off. Jet was being utilized as a spot up shooter, not much of a creator. So forth and so on.

  In one post you attack Rondo's effort at times and call him a diva, in another post you explain why it's ok for people to lollygag around on the court because "they aren't comfortable with their roles". Go figure.

  Also, look at the quotes you're seeing from the team about how players are stepping up because they normally expect Rondo to do so much for the team, now they have to do things on their own. You're attacking the player who's team claims he does much of the heavy lifting and defending the players who were to a point watching him do all the work.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 06:07:29 PM
I suspect Duffy's phone will be ringing from a 617 area code very shortly for a quick chat about his comments. Just a dumb thing to say, and what's worse, a further implication of his clients growing reputation as a less than stellar team player.
Pretty much, although Duffy's not saying anything that any Celtics fan not awash in manlove doesn't know already.

"My guy is a dominant player WHEN HE WANTS TO PLAY."

Duffy's just saying what some of us have known for years. No biggie.

  Rondo's not the first player in nba history that plays big in important games but he's probably the first such player that's regularly attacked for it by a large segment of his own team's fans.

lol
i love how people rationalize the idea that fans shouldn't get on Rondo for being the diva he is.

We are fans. We want wins in the regular season as well as post season. Why is this a bad thing? We want bragging rights. We want to say our player is definitely better than your player.

OKC gets to play hard. Spurs play hard. Heat are coasting a bit but they do know how to play hard when need be. Nuggets are playing hard. Clippers are playing hard.

Cuz Boston has 17 banners, we just supposed to coast and what not? I hate that line of thinking. I really do. Guys don't respect us. We are only as good as our record.

I want rondo to play great all the time. be consistent. and then turn up in the play offs. why is this wrong of me?

  What was that about the Heat?

the most recent of reigning champs. the team with Lebron on it who easily is one of the best players in the league, if not on the planet. We're well aware of what they can do. Also, in their last couple games, I think they've pretty much been on. They coasted earlier in the year but I think they've gotten their act together.

Celtics haven't won diddly squat since 2008. And ECF a couple years later (which we don't hang banners for). Please tell me why Rondo gets to coast but wants to be in the MVP convo, wants to be a leader, and wants to be recognized for greatness? Cuz he makes cute passes?

It bothers me that rondo can score 30 points in one game and 6 in another and think thats hunky dory. It bothers me that Rondo can be pass first one game, and take the shots the next. That's inconsistency. And in no way are we to be consistent until our leader is. He doesn't get to coast.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 06:11:14 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

My concern is moreso that he said "you can rake the regular season with a grain of salt".  If this is feedback from Rondo being forwarded through his agent, then that pretty much confirms the thought that he doesn't care about the regular season, and only bothers to play in playoff games, or games against playoff teams.  I don't like that "choose which games you play in" attitude at all because you need to beat teams in the regular season in order to make the playoffs.

If this (as many of us feared) really is his attitude I would trade him now.

  Aside from the fact that you have no idea whether Rondo had anything to do with that comment, are you advocating trading all of the players who seem to have stepped up while Rondo's out? Do we need players on offense who play harder only when they have a bigger role on offense?

I think this is debateable for a couple reasons. Doc's system to use role players for one or two things. It feels like many of them are not allowed to or don't feel comfortable playing outside of what the system says. For example, JET running all those double screens like Ray did -- that's not his game but that's what he has to do. As much as I hate the PP iso, he has to do it even if he may not want to.

I think these players aren't playing harder but they're playing FREER. They're playing to their strengths and don't have as many things holding them back. And as I've said before the only thing they have to step up to do is rebound.

Jeff Green was a puppet in the corner. If he did cut, Rondo almost always looked him off. Jet was being utilized as a spot up shooter, not much of a creator. So forth and so on.

  In one post you attack Rondo's effort at times and call him a diva, in another post you explain why it's ok for people to lollygag around on the court because "they aren't comfortable with their roles". Go figure.

  Also, look at the quotes you're seeing from the team about how players are stepping up because they normally expect Rondo to do so much for the team, now they have to do things on their own. You're attacking the player who's team claims he does much of the heavy lifting and defending the players who were to a point watching him do all the work.

oh, I never said they were lollygagging around, so that's where you're wrong. I essentially said they were too much in a box.

of course they're going to say they're stepping up. fortunately they know a bit of PR and aren't going to be classless like the agent here or like our western rivals the lakers. Jet is probably the only one who has said we get to play freer. DA has said they get to play more free. Doc has essentially said that.

Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 06:15:06 PM
It bothers me that rondo can score 30 points in one game and 6 in another and think thats hunky dory. It bothers me that Rondo can be pass first one game, and take the shots the next. That's inconsistency. And in no way are we to be consistent until our leader is. He doesn't get to coast.

  Rondo's role on the team isn't to score 30 points. He does at times but he's more valuable as a passer. The guy came close to the all time double digit assist streak and he probably has more double doubles in the last year than any other point guard. That's not inconsistent unless you don't understand anything that a point guard like Rondo contributes to a team other than scoring. And being pass first in one game and shooting more the next game isn't inconsistent, it's being able to contribute to the team in multiple ways depending on the situation.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 06:16:10 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 06:17:49 PM
snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

My concern is moreso that he said "you can rake the regular season with a grain of salt".  If this is feedback from Rondo being forwarded through his agent, then that pretty much confirms the thought that he doesn't care about the regular season, and only bothers to play in playoff games, or games against playoff teams.  I don't like that "choose which games you play in" attitude at all because you need to beat teams in the regular season in order to make the playoffs.

If this (as many of us feared) really is his attitude I would trade him now.

  Aside from the fact that you have no idea whether Rondo had anything to do with that comment, are you advocating trading all of the players who seem to have stepped up while Rondo's out? Do we need players on offense who play harder only when they have a bigger role on offense?

I think this is debateable for a couple reasons. Doc's system to use role players for one or two things. It feels like many of them are not allowed to or don't feel comfortable playing outside of what the system says. For example, JET running all those double screens like Ray did -- that's not his game but that's what he has to do. As much as I hate the PP iso, he has to do it even if he may not want to.

I think these players aren't playing harder but they're playing FREER. They're playing to their strengths and don't have as many things holding them back. And as I've said before the only thing they have to step up to do is rebound.

Jeff Green was a puppet in the corner. If he did cut, Rondo almost always looked him off. Jet was being utilized as a spot up shooter, not much of a creator. So forth and so on.

  In one post you attack Rondo's effort at times and call him a diva, in another post you explain why it's ok for people to lollygag around on the court because "they aren't comfortable with their roles". Go figure.

  Also, look at the quotes you're seeing from the team about how players are stepping up because they normally expect Rondo to do so much for the team, now they have to do things on their own. You're attacking the player who's team claims he does much of the heavy lifting and defending the players who were to a point watching him do all the work.

oh, I never said they were lollygagging around, so that's where you're wrong. I essentially said they were too much in a box.

of course they're going to say they're stepping up. fortunately they know a bit of PR and aren't going to be classless like the agent here or like our western rivals the lakers. Jet is probably the only one who has said we get to play freer. DA has said they get to play more free. Doc has essentially said that.

  Pretty sure Jet also said the wings were going to run harder up the court when we got a rebound to try and get more transition points.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 09, 2013, 06:25:44 PM
It bothers me that rondo can score 30 points in one game and 6 in another and think thats hunky dory. It bothers me that Rondo can be pass first one game, and take the shots the next. That's inconsistency. And in no way are we to be consistent until our leader is. He doesn't get to coast.

  Rondo's role on the team isn't to score 30 points. He does at times but he's more valuable as a passer. The guy came close to the all time double digit assist streak and he probably has more double doubles in the last year than any other point guard. That's not inconsistent unless you don't understand anything that a point guard like Rondo contributes to a team other than scoring. And being pass first in one game and shooting more the next game isn't inconsistent, it's being able to contribute to the team in multiple ways depending on the situation.

i disagree
almost always when he's scoring we don't win. i just believe in ball movement and getting everyone involved. not just paul and kg.
one game he comes out super aggressive, the next game he's passive. that's inconsistent. you might as well say the team isn't inconsistent because we're just waiting to see what the other team gives us. no...we have to always be aggressive and play hard.

you know what to expect when these contenders play. never know what to expect when boston plays. and i (personally) blame that on Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 06:40:57 PM
It bothers me that rondo can score 30 points in one game and 6 in another and think thats hunky dory. It bothers me that Rondo can be pass first one game, and take the shots the next. That's inconsistency. And in no way are we to be consistent until our leader is. He doesn't get to coast.

  Rondo's role on the team isn't to score 30 points. He does at times but he's more valuable as a passer. The guy came close to the all time double digit assist streak and he probably has more double doubles in the last year than any other point guard. That's not inconsistent unless you don't understand anything that a point guard like Rondo contributes to a team other than scoring. And being pass first in one game and shooting more the next game isn't inconsistent, it's being able to contribute to the team in multiple ways depending on the situation.

i disagree
almost always when he's scoring we don't win. i just believe in ball movement and getting everyone involved. not just paul and kg.
one game he comes out super aggressive, the next game he's passive. that's inconsistent. you might as well say the team isn't inconsistent because we're just waiting to see what the other team gives us. no...we have to always be aggressive and play hard.

you know what to expect when these contenders play. never know what to expect when boston plays. and i (personally) blame that on Rondo.

  We win some of the games when he scores well but many of the games where he's scoring it's because nobody else is stepping up on offense. I'd also say that you'd probably never notice when anyone on the team other than Rondo was playing passively and never consider how hard it makes it for Rondo to run the offense when that happens. Not surprising that you blame the team's overall play on Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: RockinRyA on February 09, 2013, 07:13:19 PM
First of all, I find nothing wrong with his agent's comments. I'd fire my agent if his loyalty lies with the team not with his client.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of all this Rondo bashing. Winning 6 games without him does not make us better without him. Sure the team is playing better NOW, but in the playoffs, we will surely need him. What bothers me this season though, is that both Rondo and Pierce seem to have that mindset Sheed's Pistons had during their contender years, not putting much effort into the regular season. Both have been driving me crazy with their play this season, and maybe its on Doc to actually limit their minutes so they wouldn't have to coast so much.

People are forgetting that the playoffs is a very different animal indeed. When the game slows down, and the other team has ample of time to figure you out, know your weaknesses, your plays etc, its rondo's creativity that can solve the riddle that is the opposing team's defense.

I really wish we could have Rondo back by playoffs but I know its impossible.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: cltc5 on February 09, 2013, 08:22:30 PM
First of all, I find nothing wrong with his agent's comments. I'd fire my agent if his loyalty lies with the team not with his client.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of all this Rondo bashing. Winning 6 games without him does not make us better without him. Sure the team is playing better NOW, but in the playoffs, we will surely need him. What bothers me this season though, is that both Rondo and Pierce seem to have that mindset Sheed's Pistons had during their contender years, not putting much effort into the regular season. Both have been driving me crazy with their play this season, and maybe its on Doc to actually limit their minutes so they wouldn't have to coast so much.

People are forgetting that the playoffs is a very different animal indeed. When the game slows down, and the other team has ample of time to figure you out, know your weaknesses, your plays etc, its rondo's creativity that can solve the riddle that is the opposing team's defense.

I really wish we could have Rondo back by playoffs but I know its impossible.

Im sick of this "in the Playoffs" argument.  Playoff Rondo has yet to be the difference for us winning a championship.  And with the players we have now and him hogging the ball, he would be the difference with us having an early exit.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 08:38:04 PM
First of all, I find nothing wrong with his agent's comments. I'd fire my agent if his loyalty lies with the team not with his client.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of all this Rondo bashing. Winning 6 games without him does not make us better without him. Sure the team is playing better NOW, but in the playoffs, we will surely need him. What bothers me this season though, is that both Rondo and Pierce seem to have that mindset Sheed's Pistons had during their contender years, not putting much effort into the regular season. Both have been driving me crazy with their play this season, and maybe its on Doc to actually limit their minutes so they wouldn't have to coast so much.

People are forgetting that the playoffs is a very different animal indeed. When the game slows down, and the other team has ample of time to figure you out, know your weaknesses, your plays etc, its rondo's creativity that can solve the riddle that is the opposing team's defense.

I really wish we could have Rondo back by playoffs but I know its impossible.

Im sick of this "in the Playoffs" argument.  Playoff Rondo has yet to be the difference for us winning a championship.  And with the players we have now and him hogging the ball, he would be the difference with us having an early exit.

  We've gotten to the finals and the ecf recently. That's not a title but it's nothing to sneeze at. Rondo was 26 in the playoffs last year. Go back over the last 30 years and start finding teams who won the title whose best player was Rondo's age or younger. The list will be extremely short.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: badshar on February 09, 2013, 09:02:51 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 09:18:01 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: LooseCannon on February 09, 2013, 09:27:14 PM
Im sick of this "in the Playoffs" argument.  Playoff Rondo has yet to be the difference for us winning a championship.  And with the players we have now and him hogging the ball, he would be the difference with us having an early exit.

If the Celtics end up with a significantly regular season record without Rondo than with him, but the team fails to do as well in the post-season as their record might suggest they should do, would you consider that evidence that losing Rondo may have hurt the team's chances in the playoffs?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 09, 2013, 09:28:08 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

But again, we had other injuries, like Powe and Scalabrine playing with a concussion.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 09:33:45 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

But again, we had other injuries, like Powe and Scalabrine playing with a concussion.

  I agree. If we hadn't lost Leon we would have had an easier time with Chicago, fewer games and fewer overtimes. If we weren't so spent after Chicago we'd have had an easier time with Orlando.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 09, 2013, 09:53:27 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

But again, we had other injuries, like Powe and Scalabrine playing with a concussion.

  I agree. If we hadn't lost Leon we would have had an easier time with Chicago, fewer games and fewer overtimes. If we weren't so spent after Chicago we'd have had an easier time with Orlando.

It would have also given us some other options to deal with Lewis, particularly punishing him inside with Powe, and potentially get him in foul trouble. If there's something Powe was good for, it was drawing fouls.

Powe was a big loss in it's own right in an already thin big man depth situation.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 10:01:20 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

But again, we had other injuries, like Powe and Scalabrine playing with a concussion.

  I agree. If we hadn't lost Leon we would have had an easier time with Chicago, fewer games and fewer overtimes. If we weren't so spent after Chicago we'd have had an easier time with Orlando.

It would have also given us some other options to deal with Lewis, particularly punishing him inside with Powe, and potentially get him in foul trouble. If there's something Powe was good for, it was drawing fouls.

Powe was a big loss in it's own right in an already thin big man depth situation.

  I still have nightmares of Doc playing Mikki Moore in those playoffs. I don't even like typing his name.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: Roy H. on February 09, 2013, 10:09:05 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

?

I'll reiterate: 

* The Celtics had a 10-1 stretch without KG in 2009;

* That happened because the team pulled together;

* However, nobody would take that record as a sign that KG wasn't important;

* Therefore, in determining a player's importance, you need to look at more than the team's record when they were out.

Where did I lose you?  Nowhere did I say that Rondo is or isn't as important as 2009 KG was.  What I said was, the record without other context just doesn't mean a lot right now.  Do you disagree with that, or are you just pushing an agenda?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 10:29:32 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Aside from RR/PP/KG I'd say that the player that's come closest to putting this team on his back at any point in time is Sully. How many games has anyone else carried the team?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 09, 2013, 11:56:17 PM
Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Aside from RR/PP/KG I'd say that the player that's come closest to putting this team on his back at any point in time is Sully. How many games has anyone else carried the team?

If we're talking about since 2007, there are many more..

If just this year, Bradley has since his injury return.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 10, 2013, 12:19:57 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 10, 2013, 12:22:29 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.

That's incorrect. The fact is we haven't won a playoff series without this super hero Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 10, 2013, 12:24:40 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.

That's incorrect. The fact is we haven't won a playoff series without this super hero Rondo.

Durant hasn't won a ring, or CP. who cares?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 10, 2013, 12:29:08 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.

That's incorrect. The fact is we haven't won a playoff series without this super hero Rondo.

Durant hasn't won a ring, or CP. who cares?

That's called 'moving the goal posts' as an argumentative tactic.

The fact is, we've never won a playoff series without Rondo. That's a pretty daunting realization to the 'we're better off/as good as without Rondo, and this six game streak is proof' argument.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: kgainez on February 10, 2013, 12:37:07 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.

That's incorrect. The fact is we haven't won a playoff series without this super hero Rondo.

Durant hasn't won a ring, or CP. who cares?

That's called 'moving the goal posts' as an argumentative tactic.

The fact is, we've never won a playoff series without Rondo. That's a pretty daunting realization to the 'we're better off/as good as without Rondo, and this six game streak is proof' argument.

i'm not arguing about CP3 or KD, so I'm not sure what that point was.
I'm also not sure that this is the exact argument. I've said playoff Rondo makes things easier perhaps. But I feel people are absolutely writing us off for the playoffs because we have no Rondo. Super hero Rondo has not won us any rings. He's kept us close...maybe...but a loss is a loss and there are 0 banners for his efforts.

I'm saying with the way we are playing now, with ball movement and lots of threats, I think we have a chance. And I've been saying from the jump with this team, it never has to be one guy for one game. Everyone can have the game or the series where they really step up.

I'm asking for realistic statements. It's realistic that this super hero Rondo has never won us a championship. Ball movement and some sprinkled about stellar performances from Rondo has won us ONE ring.

To discount what this team has done during this win streak I think is dangerous. And if it continues, I'd love to know when people will give props.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 10, 2013, 12:46:19 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.

That's incorrect. The fact is we haven't won a playoff series without this super hero Rondo.

Durant hasn't won a ring, or CP. who cares?

That's called 'moving the goal posts' as an argumentative tactic.

The fact is, we've never won a playoff series without Rondo. That's a pretty daunting realization to the 'we're better off/as good as without Rondo, and this six game streak is proof' argument.

Oops, I misread.

But all that tells us is that Rondo has remained healthy for a long time
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 10, 2013, 12:49:49 AM
Well I still think your argument has some serious flaws.

Quote
I'm asking for realistic statements. It's realistic that this super hero Rondo has never won us a championship. Ball movement and some sprinkled about stellar performances from Rondo has won us ONE ring.

Solid play from Rondo helped win that Ring (and one to rule them all). But the biggest elements were a still in their prime Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen. Also, a complete bench was a serious factor.

We are now weaker at the 1, 2, 3, 4, and possibly 5, excepting if you're contrasting KG to Perkins, in which case we're stronger there.

Realistically, we're playing well. We've played well this season before, and followed it up with atrocious play.

Realistically, we're still an inconsistent team that is now missing arguably it's best and most talented player.

That changes with gained consistency. Six games is not gained consistency, 20 games (not all wins of course, but .600 or better play would be acceptable) is a good case for gained consistency.

If your point is just to loudly state 'calling it now', well more power to you. I hope you're right. But for those of us who are t sold on this team because of the win streak, I hope you understand our caution. We've been burned before, and all we care about are playoff wins, or future prospects. Neither one is anything close to assured odds right now, so when people are ready to dispute your 'live in the now' proclamations, I hope you see it for the rational thought it is. Maybe not optimistic, but rational.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: BballTim on February 10, 2013, 12:51:05 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.

That's incorrect. The fact is we haven't won a playoff series without this super hero Rondo.

Durant hasn't won a ring, or CP. who cares?

That's called 'moving the goal posts' as an argumentative tactic.

The fact is, we've never won a playoff series without Rondo. That's a pretty daunting realization to the 'we're better off/as good as without Rondo, and this six game streak is proof' argument.

i'm not arguing about CP3 or KD, so I'm not sure what that point was.
I'm also not sure that this is the exact argument. I've said playoff Rondo makes things easier perhaps. But I feel people are absolutely writing us off for the playoffs because we have no Rondo. Super hero Rondo has not won us any rings. He's kept us close...maybe...but a loss is a loss and there are 0 banners for his efforts.

I'm saying with the way we are playing now, with ball movement and lots of threats, I think we have a chance. And I've been saying from the jump with this team, it never has to be one guy for one game. Everyone can have the game or the series where they really step up.

I'm asking for realistic statements. It's realistic that this super hero Rondo has never won us a championship. Ball movement and some sprinkled about stellar performances from Rondo has won us ONE ring.

To discount what this team has done during this win streak I think is dangerous. And if it continues, I'd love to know when people will give props.

  The fact that you're dismissing all of the postseason accomplishments that we've had over the last 5 years because we didn't win a ring while complaining that people aren't excited enough about a 6 game winning streak in the middle of the season against mainly poor teams is mind boggling. Why would getting to game 7 of the finals be important compared to beating the Kings at home in February?
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: indeedproceed on February 10, 2013, 12:52:36 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.

That's incorrect. The fact is we haven't won a playoff series without this super hero Rondo.

Durant hasn't won a ring, or CP. who cares?

That's called 'moving the goal posts' as an argumentative tactic.

The fact is, we've never won a playoff series without Rondo. That's a pretty daunting realization to the 'we're better off/as good as without Rondo, and this six game streak is proof' argument.

Oops, I misread.

But all that tells us is that Rondo has remained healthy for a long time

Well that's not all it tells us. Rondo was the main factor in some of those playoff series wins.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 10, 2013, 01:01:14 AM
no one can deal with the now
everyone likes to talk about what-ifs in the past and make predictions for the future. smh

the fact is we haven't won a ring with this super hero Rondo.

That's incorrect. The fact is we haven't won a playoff series without this super hero Rondo.

Durant hasn't won a ring, or CP. who cares?

That's called 'moving the goal posts' as an argumentative tactic.

The fact is, we've never won a playoff series without Rondo. That's a pretty daunting realization to the 'we're better off/as good as without Rondo, and this six game streak is proof' argument.

Oops, I misread.

But all that tells us is that Rondo has remained healthy for a long time

Well that's not all it tells us. Rondo was the main factor in some of those playoff series wins.

In recent years, he really has.
This year, we can "wing it" to the finals.
Title: Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 10, 2013, 01:16:06 AM
Well I still think your argument has some serious flaws.

Quote
I'm asking for realistic statements. It's realistic that this super hero Rondo has never won us a championship. Ball movement and some sprinkled about stellar performances from Rondo has won us ONE ring.

Solid play from Rondo helped win that Ring (and one to rule them all). But the biggest elements were a still in their prime Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen. Also, a complete bench was a serious factor.

We are now weaker at the 1, 2, 3, 4, and possibly 5, excepting if you're contrasting KG to Perkins, in which case we're stronger there.

Realistically, we're playing well. We've played well this season before, and followed it up with atrocious play.

Realistically, we're still an inconsistent team that is now missing arguably it's best and most talented player.

That changes with gained consistency. Six games is not gained consistency, 20 games (not all wins of course, but .600 or better play would be acceptable) is a good case for gained consistency.

If your point is just to loudly state 'calling it now', well more power to you. I hope you're right. But for those of us who are t sold on this team because of the win streak, I hope you understand our caution. We've been burned before, and all we care about are playoff wins, or future prospects. Neither one is anything close to assured odds right now, so when people are ready to dispute your 'live in the now' proclamations, I hope you see it for the rational thought it is. Maybe not optimistic, but rational.

Well done here. Much needed. Tp.