CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: tonyto3690 on February 08, 2013, 03:51:22 PM
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Has been massive for us.
Before Bradley came back I posted a thread talking about how Bradleys return would create a massive seasonal shift because with our perimeter defense solidified, our bigs wouldn't have to rotate as much and our defense would come back to form. Alas, we saw that for stretches but Rondo wasn't able to keep up and along with our offensive inconsistencies; after a brief surge we came back to earth.
Now with Lee paired with Bradley we're seeing a full court press from those two the entire game they are in. Our defense needs only defend for 10 seconds instead of 20 and we aren't seeing nearly as many easy layups due to Rondo letting his guy blow by him in an effort to get a steal. This is giving KG fresher legs to post up on offense and our defense has been the best in the NBA with some completely absurd efficiency numbers when Lee/Bradley are on the court.
I say this to lead into how recently I've been hearing rumors and suggestion we trade Lee or Bradley for a big.
NO
While I agree we need a big, we would be making a lateral move and sacrificing terrific perimeter defense for an assumedly mediocre big with little upside. Stay the course with these two. Their defense is way too valuable to trade away.
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I agree with you that Lee and Bradley are both integral to the success of this team in the short term.
That's not the only reason not to trade Lee, though. Lee is a very good value on his current contract, early-season struggles aside. We have him locked up for the next few seasons. Why give him up just to get another role player at PF?
At best, that's a "win now" move -- which is not the kind of move this team should make, winning streak or not.
Unless we're getting a long term fixture in the frontcourt in return -- e.g. a Marcin Gortat type -- I don't see the point of trading Lee this season.
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
I don't think there's a way we get a valuable big man this season without giving up one of our key younger players.
That's why, like you say, it doesn't make sense to rush to do that this season UNLESS Danny gets a couple of great offers for Pierce and Garnett. Then we can go into all-out fire sale mode.
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Gamble on a player who is not a sure thing.
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
That's exactly why I don't expect Ainge to make any trades before the deadline. The only way we trade our young talent is if Doc gets blown away by offers for both KG and Pierce and we have the opportunity to land a superstar. That is NOT going to happen.
Stand put and take your chances with the current group. Maintain flexibility going forward along with developing our young talent and take a (pretty realistic) shot at beating Miami in a 7 game series.
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Gamble on a player who is not a sure thing.
Who though? The only person that comes to mind is Howard and he'd take way more than Lee to grab him. That value would be horrendous for us. No way should we do that trade.
Any trade we make that is something short of a superstar in return will be a lateral move that will make us old and handicap our future flexibility and slow down the inevitable rebuilding process with young talent.
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I say this to lead into how recently I've been hearing rumors and suggestion we trade Lee or Bradley for a big.
NO
While I agree we need a big, we would be making a lateral move and sacrificing terrific perimeter defense for an assumedly mediocre big with little upside. Stay the course with these two. Their defense is way too valuable to trade away.
The only trade to make is one that either brings in a player that dramatically increases the chance of winning this year OR players and picks that jumpstart the inevitable rebuilding process. I can't imagine any deal involving Lee or Bradley that fits those requirements.
Mike
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Gamble on a player who is not a sure thing.
Who though? The only person that comes to mind is Howard and he'd take way more than Lee to grab him. That value would be horrendous for us. No way should we do that trade.
I like the idea of snapping up either Brian Butch or Henry Sims from the D-League. Butch would probably be the better option if you want to improve the team for this season. Sims is the kind of guy who might have long-term potential like Greg Smith did when the Rockets plucked him from the D-League last season.
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We're not going to get a serviceable big with only trading our trash. Either way we more than likely won't have enough to get over the top. This season is really annoying me. I feel like we're stuck in the middle right now.
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
That's exactly why I don't expect Ainge to make any trades before the deadline. The only way we trade our young talent is if Doc gets blown away by offers for both KG and Pierce and we have the opportunity to land a superstar. That is NOT going to happen.
Stand put and take your chances with the current group. Maintain flexibility going forward along with developing our young talent and take a (pretty realistic) shot at beating Miami in a 7 game series.
For real? You are very optimistic person. I'm willing to put very large amounts of $ on that beat. But I'd love to see it. ;)
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no reason to trade guys who share to ball and enjoy a team effort
Like AB and Lee ..they are not problem.........
Energy is good...standing around stalling she offense sucks and killing the team flow describes Mr Rondo.........there is your trade......make it happenmDA
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
We could trade Rondo or Sullinger, or them both. I suspect that the two of them would fetch a pretty good big man in return, for the "last run."
I could see Utah being interested, for example, in Rondo/Sully for Al Jefferson. Utah gets a top PG at a very reasonable salary and a decent prospect, in return for someone they probably won't be able/willing to re-sign this summer anyway.
Utah can afford to be patient this year, since they are waiting for Favors and Kanter to develop anyhow.
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Maybe something like this is on Dannys mind.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
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http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cfy25gg
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I think getting rid of Lee is a bad idea. Only one of the starting guards that's consistent. So who do you make a starter? Jet who loves the bench? Or Barbosa who's just as streaky as AB?
I like the idea of the big. Just not at the expense of Lee.
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with Rondo injured, trading one of our guards isnt much of an option IMO.
I would rather trade brandon bass....start Wilcox with KG with someone like Dalembert to come off the bench
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
We could trade Rondo or Sullinger, or them both. I suspect that the two of them would fetch a pretty good big man in return, for the "last run."
I could see Utah being interested, for example, in Rondo/Sully for Al Jefferson. Utah gets a top PG at a very reasonable salary and a decent prospect, in return for someone they probably won't be able/willing to re-sign this summer anyway.
Utah can afford to be patient this year, since they are waiting for Favors and Kanter to develop anyhow.
Why do we get someone Utah is looking forward to dump for two players? Besides, the addition of Jefferson doesn't make our team any better than it currently is.
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
We could trade Rondo or Sullinger, or them both. I suspect that the two of them would fetch a pretty good big man in return, for the "last run."
I could see Utah being interested, for example, in Rondo/Sully for Al Jefferson. Utah gets a top PG at a very reasonable salary and a decent prospect, in return for someone they probably won't be able/willing to re-sign this summer anyway.
Utah can afford to be patient this year, since they are waiting for Favors and Kanter to develop anyhow.
Why do we get someone Utah is looking forward to dump for two players? Besides, the addition of Jefferson doesn't make our team any better than it currently is.
You don't think that acquiring a legitimate 20/10 guy and one of the best low-post scorers in the league makes us better? Explain.
Just to be clear, I am talking about this year. Rondo and Sullinger aren't going to play a single minute for us.
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Lets see the info for future replacements:
Rondo replaces himself(not going so good, his team looks better without him...)
Lee+Bradley replaces Ray Allen(going good, but ppl want to trade them...)
Green replaces Pierce(going inconsistently good)
Sully replaces KG (not going so good, injury bug for the rest of Sully's career as he is flagged)
Melo??? replaces Perkins (we should have kept Big Baby, he could've been so useful right now...)
Keep these players and just add on (like trade pieces surrounding Bass and Terry)
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
We could trade Rondo or Sullinger, or them both. I suspect that the two of them would fetch a pretty good big man in return, for the "last run."
I could see Utah being interested, for example, in Rondo/Sully for Al Jefferson. Utah gets a top PG at a very reasonable salary and a decent prospect, in return for someone they probably won't be able/willing to re-sign this summer anyway.
Utah can afford to be patient this year, since they are waiting for Favors and Kanter to develop anyhow.
Why do we get someone Utah is looking forward to dump for two players? Besides, the addition of Jefferson doesn't make our team any better than it currently is.
You don't think that acquiring a legitimate 20/10 guy and one of the best low-post scorers in the league makes us better? Explain.
Just to be clear, I am talking about this year. Rondo and Sullinger aren't going to play a single minute for us.
Why on god's green earth to we trade our stud PG and a great rookie prospect when the jazz have been thinking hard about a package around thiago splitter from the spurs?
Jefferson would not be a 20/10 guy for us and you're grossly overrating his value considering he can't defend the shoes he's standing in.
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Jefferson is a solid big, not worth a star and a future star
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I appreciate their effort, but how exactly can we land a rotation caliber big man without giving away anything but trash?
Since we aren't winning it this season, there is no need to rush for a big man trade, though. The only thing I can see is KG being moved (for that Clippers trade or something like that) and us getting some pieces for the future.
We could trade Rondo or Sullinger, or them both. I suspect that the two of them would fetch a pretty good big man in return, for the "last run."
I could see Utah being interested, for example, in Rondo/Sully for Al Jefferson. Utah gets a top PG at a very reasonable salary and a decent prospect, in return for someone they probably won't be able/willing to re-sign this summer anyway.
Utah can afford to be patient this year, since they are waiting for Favors and Kanter to develop anyhow.
Why do we get someone Utah is looking forward to dump for two players? Besides, the addition of Jefferson doesn't make our team any better than it currently is.
You don't think that acquiring a legitimate 20/10 guy and one of the best low-post scorers in the league makes us better? Explain.
Just to be clear, I am talking about this year. Rondo and Sullinger aren't going to play a single minute for us.
Why on god's green earth to we trade our stud PG and a great rookie prospect when the jazz have been thinking hard about a package around thiago splitter from the spurs?
Jefferson would not be a 20/10 guy for us and you're grossly overrating his value considering he can't defend the shoes he's standing in.
I'm not sure you understand my point.
I'm trying to think of the best way for us to acquire a high-quality big man to help with the playoff run THIS YEAR.
Giving up two guys who will not play a minute for us is one way to do that. In this suggestion I'm not considering the future at all - it is the ultimate "one last run" strategy.
And I totally agree about Al's defense, but if you can name a better big man we could acquire for Rondo and Sullinger, I'm all ears. I think Josh Smith might be another possibility, but he isn't markedly better than Jefferson in my mind, particularly given our need for post offense.
Also, let's not over-rate Sully right now. He just had season-ending surgery for the very problem that caused him to slip so dramatically in the draft. As we've seen with Dwight Howard, it is a very real possibility that Sully does not come back at the same level, next year or maybe ever.
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Jefferson is a solid big, not worth a star and a future star
Who is a star and a future star?
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Jefferson is a solid big, not worth a star and a future star
Who is a star and a future star?
Everyone on the Celtics roster is either a star or a future star.
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Jefferson is a solid big, not worth a star and a future star
Who is a star and a future star?
Everyone on the Celtics roster is either a star or a future star.
Oh boy, there's two of them..........
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Jefferson is a solid big, not worth a star and a future star
Who is a star and a future star?
Everyone on the Celtics roster is either a star or a future star.
Oh boy, there's two of them..........
Yes, but only one of us was being serious.
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Jefferson is a solid big, not worth a star and a future star
Who is a star and a future star?
Everyone on the Celtics roster is either a star or a future star.
Oh boy, there's two of them..........
Yes, but only one of us was being serious.
Oh thank god man. I'm sorry, you had me scared for a moment.
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You don't think that acquiring a legitimate 20/10 guy and one of the best low-post scorers in the league makes us better? Explain.
I suspect that acquiring Al Jefferson might set the defense back to the level it was at the start of the season when he is in the game. And it would probably take him longer to figure things out, if he ever would, than it has the new players on the roster this season.
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You don't think that acquiring a legitimate 20/10 guy and one of the best low-post scorers in the league makes us better? Explain.
I suspect that acquiring Al Jefferson might set the defense back to the level it was at the start of the season when he is in the game. And it would probably take him longer to figure things out, if he ever would, than it has the new players on the roster this season.
I don't disagree that he'd hurt our defense, but I still think we'd be a better team with him playing all the minutes that Wilcox and Collins play now, and maybe 5 of Bass' minutes.
We could always sub offense/defense in late game situations. We do that now with Bradley and Terry.