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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: crownontherocks on February 07, 2013, 05:59:53 PM

Title: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: crownontherocks on February 07, 2013, 05:59:53 PM
The Chicago Bulls and Toronto Raptors have engaged in exploratory trade discussions on a deal that would swap the Bulls' Carlos Boozer for the Raptors' Andrea Bargnani, according to sources familiar with the discussions.

Other players with smaller contracts would have to be added to the deal to make the salary-cap math work, should talks indeed progress to a more serious level, but sources told ESPN.com on Thursday that both teams have given consideration to the move.

From Chicago's perspective, sources said, Bargnani's arrival could help address their glaring lack of 3-point shooting and brighten the overall look of its payroll, given that the Italian forward makes $5 million less than Boozer this season. Despite his well-chronicled defensive deficiencies, Bargnani would figure to be an effective pick-and-roll partner for Derrick Rose, once Rose makes his expected return from knee surgery after the All-Star break.

The biggest impediment to such a trade, sources said, is believed to be whether Toronto can realistically afford having both Rudy Gay and Boozer on its payroll beyond this season.

The Raptors, fresh off acquiring Gay from Memphis last week, have been openly shopping Bargnani, who resumed the most disappointing season of his career Wednesday night after missing 26 games with an elbow injury.

Although Toronto's desire to upgrade its front line is an open secret -- as confirmed by their long-running interest in trading for the Los Angeles Lakers' Pau Gasol before Gasol's foot injury this week -- it's believed that the luxury-tax implications of trading for Boozer could ultimately dissuade the Raptors from such a deal, even if Chicago proved willing.

Raptors president Bryan Colangelo told local reporters after the Gay trade that the team was prepared to stray into luxury-tax territory for the "right transaction." It remains to be seen whether a deal for Boozer qualifies.

It's been long assumed around the league that the Bulls might consider releasing Boozer through the NBA's one-time amnesty provision at season's end, but Boozer has tuned out such talk to be one of Chicago's most productive players in 2013, rallying from a so-so start to average 19.5 points and 10.1 rebounds in January.

The NBA's annual trade deadline is Feb. 21 and the Raptors are known to be actively searching for a new home for Bargnani, who was selected with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2006 draft but has gradually fallen out of favor with Raptors fans after Toronto's four straight seasons out of the playoffs. Their list of potential trade partners is likely to be limited, however, because Bargnani -- on top of his on-court struggles this season -- has two years left on his contract after this one, valued at slightly more than $22 million total.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: Who on February 07, 2013, 06:09:27 PM
Why? Seems like a pointless trade for both teams.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: Who on February 07, 2013, 06:12:12 PM
Although Toronto's desire to upgrade its front line is an open secret -- as confirmed by their long-running interest in trading for the Los Angeles Lakers' Pau Gasol before Gasol's foot injury this week -- it's believed that the luxury-tax implications of trading for Boozer could ultimately dissuade the Raptors from such a deal, even if Chicago proved willing.

There is no way Toronto pays the luxury tax for a non-contender. Heck, borderline playoff team.

The Raptors are one of the most luxury tax phobic organizations in the league.

This trade won't happen. Not unless Toronto can cut salary elsewhere and stay below the luxury tax threshold. They won't pay the tax for Boozer and that overall roster.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: Kane3387 on February 07, 2013, 06:15:17 PM
I think it weakens the Bulls.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: Who on February 07, 2013, 06:15:38 PM
I would love to see Bargnani play for Tom Thibodeau though.

I think it might be too late for Bargnani. Too many bad habits. Too difficult to change. It's such a shame Toronto did such a bad job developing Bargnani. But if anyone can turn things around for Bargnani, Tom Thibodeau has to be one of the best, if no the very best, options to do so.

I wouldn't take the risk if I were Chicago but I would love see Bargnani get one last chance in a top quality defensive orientated team under a coach like Thibodeau.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: SparzWizard on February 07, 2013, 06:15:49 PM
I hope they do it. The Bulls will weaken a bit without Boozer. And might damage them with Bargnani!
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 07, 2013, 06:22:18 PM
Why? Seems like a pointless trade for both teams.

Yeah this doesnt make much sense to me either.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: Birdman on February 07, 2013, 06:26:46 PM
I think it weakens the Bulls.
Big time!!
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: RJ87 on February 07, 2013, 06:31:25 PM
I would love to see Bargnani play for Tom Thibodeau though.

I think it might be too late for Bargnani. Too many bad habits. Too difficult to change. It's such a shame Toronto did such a bad job developing Bargnani. But if anyone can turn things around for Bargnani, Tom Thibodeau has to be one of the best, if no the very best, options to do so.

I wouldn't take the risk if I were Chicago but I would love see Bargnani get one last chance in a top quality defensive orientated team under a coach like Thibodeau.

Well, Carlos Boozer is not exactly a defensive stallwart. Tom's system covers up a lot of Boozer's weaknesses. I don't see Chicago going from Boozer to Bargs being that much of an issue on the defensive end. Offensively, I think it'll make them better offensively. Bargs can spread the floor and could become a legitimate 2nd option on the offense for them. Where it might hurt the Bulls is on the glass - Bargs is bad rebounder. I don't really see that changing much, but as long as they have guys like Deng, Noah, and Gibson off the bench, the decrease in rebounding shouldn't be too drastic or something they can't recover from.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: snively on February 07, 2013, 06:35:39 PM
Why? Seems like a pointless trade for both teams.

Not sure if a 1-to-1 swap would work, but if it did, it would put Chicago under the tax.  That owner has done quite a bit to avoid the tax in the past.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: snively on February 07, 2013, 06:38:38 PM
They might need a 3rd team to dump Kleiza on. 
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: LooseCannon on February 07, 2013, 06:40:14 PM
Why? Seems like a pointless trade for both teams.

It's an upgrade for the Raptors and it probably makes sense from the Bulls' POV if they value certain financial considerations over winning.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: Lucky17 on February 07, 2013, 06:54:13 PM
Noah and Bargnani would make for the best "buddy-cop" movie co-stars since Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan. Hilarity ensues!
Title: Toronto/Chicago discusses Boozer for Bargnani trade
Post by: esel1000 on February 07, 2013, 08:36:05 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226005/Sources-Bulls-Raptors-Considering-Boozer-Bargnani-Trade

I like the trade for the raptors. Gives them a solid big man thats a really good rebounder. You have to admit the raps would have a pretty solid lineup. Lowry, Gay, Boozer, Johnson, etc. That's a future playoff team.
Title: Re: Toronto/Chicago discusses Boozer for Bargnani trade
Post by: syfy9 on February 07, 2013, 08:48:31 PM
Uhh good trade for both teams.

Bulls benefit a lot too. Boozer isn't exactly known as a defensive stopper, and Bargs would spread the floor so well for a limited offensive team, as well as create for himself.
Title: Re: Toronto/Chicago discusses Boozer for Bargnani trade
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 07, 2013, 08:49:41 PM
Chicago is dumb if they traded the Booz.
Title: Re: Toronto/Chicago discusses Boozer for Bargnani trade
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 07, 2013, 08:52:51 PM
I would rather have Boozer .....don' see it as much of trade for either
Title: Re: Toronto/Chicago discusses Boozer for Bargnani trade
Post by: crownontherocks on February 07, 2013, 08:55:24 PM
I already made a thread on this
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 07, 2013, 09:00:01 PM
They might need a 3rd team to dump Kleiza on.

Who would be the last asset involved?
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: manl_lui on February 07, 2013, 09:11:41 PM
if that happens, the Bulls lose

Boozer may have lost a step or two, but he's still a better rebounder and more aggressive player than Bargnani is right now
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 07, 2013, 09:14:03 PM
if that happens, the Bulls lose

Boozer may have lost a step or two, but he's still a better rebounder and more aggressive player than Bargnani is right now

Totally one of their best players..3rd or 4th maybe! Bargnani would be their 13th man!
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: ScottHow on February 07, 2013, 09:14:20 PM
I think the Bulls would be a the clear loser in that trade. Bargs sucks.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: syfy9 on February 07, 2013, 11:57:46 PM
Bargs is one of the better offensive big men in the league. He can shoot the 3 and is probably top 2 in creating his own shot off the dribble (for bigs).


Having him coming off the bench would really help their scoring. Boozer isn't the greatest defender, and who knows? Bargs is a decent shot blocker; he does suck at everything else defensively/rebounding though.

It is a good fit for the Bulls.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: RyNye on February 08, 2013, 09:49:30 AM
Bargs is one of the better offensive big men in the league. He can shoot the 3 and is probably top 2 in creating his own shot off the dribble (for bigs).

If he is so good offensively, why are his shooting percentages so terrible? He isn't even that good from 3, he hovers at just slightly over the league average. From everywhere else on the floor, he is well below the league average.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: Fafnir on February 08, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
Bargs is one of the better offensive big men in the league. He can shoot the 3 and is probably top 2 in creating his own shot off the dribble (for bigs).

If he is so good offensively, why are his shooting percentages so terrible? He isn't even that good from 3, he hovers at just slightly over the league average. From everywhere else on the floor, he is well below the league average.
Bargs overall stats this year are pretty terrible.

But offensively even with his meh TS% he has a bigger offensive impact than his efficiency would indicate. Just stretching the floor from the C position and pulling a big man out of help defense opens things up tremendously for others. KG does the same with his jump shot and passing.

Of course Bargs rebounds like a SF and defends like Leon Powe on sleeping pills. That's the real problem with him.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: CFAN38 on February 10, 2013, 11:29:24 AM
I actually am one of the few who thinks this could be a great trade for the bulls. Their offense will become much more dynamic, their defense gains more potential ( barge is a mobile 7fter just needs to be coached up). Rebounding is the only spot that I think this really hurts them.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: hpantazo on February 10, 2013, 12:19:33 PM
I also think this would be a good trade for Chicago now. Boozer is a poor defender, may as well consider that position a defensive loss and get a PF who's offense compliments Noah's much better. Bargniani is still young too and with the right coach, can develop.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: Birdman on February 10, 2013, 12:58:24 PM
Boozer, Gay, DeRozan, Lowery not bad
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: crownontherocks on February 15, 2013, 01:00:28 PM
The Toronto Raptors were told last week that they can accept the Andrea Bargnani and John Lucas III trade for Carlos Boozer and Nate Robinson from the Chicago Bulls whenever they wanted it, according to league sources.
That deal could take the Bulls below the luxury-tax threshold.
The Bulls would like to avoid paying tax, especially if Derrick Rose is not able to play this season.

Via K.C. Johnson/Chicago Tribune
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 15, 2013, 01:09:28 PM
Intersting. I know the Raptors want to get rid of Bargnani but why would they want to take on Boozer at his money?

I guess Bargnani might work in Chicago? Open up play time for Gibson and Bargs defense alongside Noah would work out well but they wouldnt have any low post presence. Not sure how I feel about this is I was a bulls fan.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 15, 2013, 01:12:27 PM
Am I the only one here that thinks this is a solid deal for Chicago.

They both suck on defense, Bargs can also drop points like Boozer. He's not a better rebounder but he can stretch the floor. He's also cheaper. And I think Thibs defensive schemes can hide Bargs deficiencies, and he's not a bad post defender.

I like this for the Bulls.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on February 15, 2013, 01:17:26 PM
Am I the only one here that thinks this is a solid deal for Chicago.

They both suck on defense, Bargs can also drop points like Boozer. He's not a better rebounder but he can stretch the floor. He's also cheaper. And I think Thibs defensive schemes can hide Bargs deficiencies, and he's not a bad post defender.

I like this for the Bulls.

Nope I'm there with you. I believe I am the only one who does not think Bargs is hot garbage. He certainly is not a star (or worthy of the #1 pick) but I think he can be a very solid 2nd or 3rd option.

Also, Toronto was forcing him to play center for a lot of his time there. He is not a center, but rather a PF. Put him next to a defensive minded center who rebounds like Noah and I think it's a great fit.

When Rose comes back, imagine pick-n-pop with him and Bargs
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2013, 05:09:38 PM
Not sure if I would do this, but it would probably make Boston more of a contender in the short term (though I'm not sure enough of one that I would do the trade)

TOR - Green, Bass
CHI - Bargs, Barbosa, Collins
BOS - Boozer, Belinelli, Lucas, CHI 1st (top 20 protected)
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap
Post by: ssspence on February 15, 2013, 05:12:04 PM
Why? Seems like a pointless trade for both teams.

I agree. I don't really get it for either team. Treading water.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: Who on February 15, 2013, 05:13:44 PM
Not sure if I would do this, but it would probably make Boston more of a contender in the short term (though I'm not sure enough of one that I would do the trade)

TOR - Green, Bass
CHI - Bargs, Barbosa, Collins
BOS - Boozer, Belinelli, Lucas, CHI 1st (top 20 protected)

I think Jeff Green is more important to beating Miami and New York than Boozer is.

I don't think Boozer gives the team an added advantage against Brooklyn either. Maybe Indiana with David West, Booz would be useful there.

But overall, I don't think this trade would improve Boston's chances of making it out of the East.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: kozlodoev on February 15, 2013, 06:00:45 PM
Am I the only one here that thinks this is a solid deal for Chicago.

They both suck on defense, Bargs can also drop points like Boozer. He's not a better rebounder but he can stretch the floor. He's also cheaper. And I think Thibs defensive schemes can hide Bargs deficiencies, and he's not a bad post defender.

I like this for the Bulls.
To say that Bargnani is "not a better rebounder" is the understatement of the year.

Bargnani has consistently posted single-digit(!) TRRs over his career, while playing PF and even C for the Raptors. In his worst year, Boozer had a TRR of 16.

Chicago would be crazy to give up any sort of assets for Bargnani. I know Boozer is not a world-beater, but starting Bargnani instead is just madness.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 15, 2013, 06:02:36 PM
Bargnani is the worst rebounder in the league. I'm not even trying to joke with you. He's worse than E'Twaun Moore or Isaiah Thomas. He's ridiculously bad.

This would likely put the Bulls out of contention until the 2016-17 season.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: LooseCannon on February 15, 2013, 06:52:32 PM
Not sure if I would do this, but it would probably make Boston more of a contender in the short term (though I'm not sure enough of one that I would do the trade)

TOR - Green, Bass
CHI - Bargs, Barbosa, Collins
BOS - Boozer, Belinelli, Lucas, CHI 1st (top 20 protected)

In December, you probably could have gotten several people here to agree to trading Green and Bass for Boozer without getting anything else in return.
Title: Re: Rumor Bargnani for Boozer swap, raptors can accept anytime they want
Post by: crownontherocks on February 16, 2013, 10:53:53 AM
Beat writer Doug Smith says the Raptors have "no interest" in Carlos Boozer. The Raptors' front office appears to have their heads on straight here. Boozer is a 31-year-old defensive liability that is owed $15.3 million next season and $16.8 million in 2014/15. Meanwhile, Andrea Bargnani is due $10.7 million next season and $11.5 million in 2014/15. Inexpensive workhorse Amir Johnson is a better fit than either. The Raptors are on the hunt for a better, more cost-effective Bargnani deal.