Celtics Blog Forums

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on February 07, 2013, 12:03:02 AM

Title: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: KG Living Legend on February 07, 2013, 12:03:02 AM

 I love Rondo. I really do. He was everything I asked for when I prayed to the basketball gods back when we were starting Miracle Milt Palacio. I should have prayed for a jump shot but I didn't.

 Nobody pounds it into the ground like Rajon. He must lead the league in dribbles every year. To see Barbosa and Lee play so well simply because they get to touch the ball now, has to make you wonder.

 He is a dominant player in  any really big game, and he's even better come playoff time. He simply doesn't give 100% all of the time, yet he still dominates the ball like few players I have ever seen. And this is what hurts. On games that he can't get psyched up for he should give up the rock more. But he doesn't because he's stubborn. His greatest strength and weakness is the same thing with Rondo . Stubbornness. And thinking he's always right.   
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: saltlover on February 07, 2013, 12:09:26 AM
Honestly, if this were a real problem, I would expect Doc to handle it.  If not Doc, KG, whom Rondo seems to respect a lot.  If not KG, then Dooling.  But as Doc seemed to not mention this much, much less design the offense around giving the ball to Rondo, I don't think calling him a "Ball Hog" is very fair treatment.

Maybe Doc should have designed the offense differently, or maybe players should have done a better job of getting open, or creating more when they had the ball, but Rondo wasn't Ball Hogging it in the way that you imply.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: KG Living Legend on February 07, 2013, 12:28:53 AM

 Yes he was. It's not his fault so much. It's just who he is. My real point here is this. This is what you get with Rondo. The good the bad and the ugly. A top five player in the game when he's going all out. A player that goes toe to toe with Lebron James and even gets in his face and guards him.

 And also Rondo the Ball Hog that simply does not want to give it up until he thinks so. There was a scout before the Draft that said he's gonna pound it, pound it, pound it. And he still does.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Mazingerz on February 07, 2013, 12:32:07 AM
Oh boy.

we tend to underappreciate Rondo. Please refer to the link below and see who wants him.

http://www.celticslife.com/2013/02/kobe-you-dont-want-rondo-send-him-my.html
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: PhoSita on February 07, 2013, 12:37:46 AM

 Nobody pounds it into the ground like Rajon. He must lead the league in dribbles every year. To see Barbosa and Lee play so well simply because they get to touch the ball now, has to make you wonder.



Actually:

Quote from: Zach Lowe
Itís no secret Bostonís offense had grown very Rondo-dominant, especially this season. The Celtics are one of 15 teams that have invested in fancy data-tracking cameras from STATS LLC, and the information from those cameras, provided exclusively to Grantland, backs up that notion. Rondo has dribbled the ball about 486 times per tracked game this season, the fourth-highest figure in the league for players on those 15 camera teams, and about 90 more dribbles per game than he averaged last season, according to the data. A larger percentage of his touches ó 41 percent this season, 35.5 percent last season ó have involved at least six dribbles.

via Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/50099/are-the-celtics-really-this-good-without-rajon-rondo)
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: ScottHow on February 07, 2013, 12:39:18 AM
It's pretty crazy to me that half a season of .500 ball and a 5 game winning streak has turned so many fans against Rondo.

I will say I'm for trading him now, only because of his injury. But give me a healthy Rondo any day of the week and twice on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: timobusa on February 07, 2013, 12:54:07 AM
This is downright stupid, for lack of a better word.
A ball hog that gets 11 assists per game.
And don't come back with the " he gets the assists cause he holds the ball too much" or " he stat pads "

30 out of 30 teams in this league would easily take Rondo with open arms, regardless of his "attitude problem" as some would call it, I prefer to call it his Edge.

This team has used Rondo as a crutch when he's on the floor, and that's on Doc, and on the team. That's what he preaches, get the ball to Rondo, he'll make the plays.
But that doesn't always work, as we all know.
I think this team has turned a new page, realizing that they can move the ball and easily get buckets.
A healthy Rondo can and will adapt to the new system, he is the best passer in the league for crying out loud.

If I could close this thread I would..
SMH some people..
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 07, 2013, 12:58:31 AM
This is downright stupid, for lack of a better word.
A ball hog that gets 11 assists per game.
And don't come back with the " he gets the assists cause he holds the ball too much" or " he stat pads "

30 out of 30 teams in this league would easily take Rondo with open arms, regardless of his "attitude problem" as some would call it, I prefer to call it his Edge.

This team has used Rondo as a crutch when he's on the floor, and that's on Doc, and on the team. That's what he preaches, get the ball to Rondo, he'll make the plays.
But that doesn't always work, as we all know.
I think this team has turned a new page, realizing that they can move the ball and easily get buckets.
A healthy Rondo can and will adapt to the new system, he is the best passer in the league for crying out loud.

If I could close this thread I would..
SMH some people..

No he wouldn't, if rondo came back tomorrow we would go right back to the old system of rondo pounding the ball. Come on now, doc is the coach.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: timobusa on February 07, 2013, 12:58:50 AM
PS. Rondo has given his heart and soul to this team, and some fans doesn't give him the respect that is due.

I'll wait till I see you "fans" post your "I wish Rondo was healthy" posts come playoff time.

Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: timobusa on February 07, 2013, 01:03:27 AM
This is downright stupid, for lack of a better word.
A ball hog that gets 11 assists per game.
And don't come back with the " he gets the assists cause he holds the ball too much" or " he stat pads "

30 out of 30 teams in this league would easily take Rondo with open arms, regardless of his "attitude problem" as some would call it, I prefer to call it his Edge.

This team has used Rondo as a crutch when he's on the floor, and that's on Doc, and on the team. That's what he preaches, get the ball to Rondo, he'll make the plays.
But that doesn't always work, as we all know.
I think this team has turned a new page, realizing that they can move the ball and easily get buckets.
A healthy Rondo can and will adapt to the new system, he is the best passer in the league for crying out loud.

If I could close this thread I would..
SMH some people..

No he wouldn't, if rondo came back tomorrow we would go right back to the old system of rondo pounding the ball. Come on now, doc is the coach.

Yeah he will, He's not stupid, He's seen this team play without him. He can easily fit that role.

Watch, all the rondo haters will cry if he gets shipped outta here.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Bahku on February 07, 2013, 01:05:32 AM
PS. Rondo has given his heart and soul to this team, and some fans doesn't give him the respect that is due.

I'll wait till I see you "fans" post your "I wish Rondo was healthy" posts come playoff time.
TP.

It's a shame how so many fans have taken to kicking this guy when he's down, after all he's done for this organization.

Kid's a baller, and we're lucky to have him.

I'm real tired of these threads, but I fear they will continue, as long as he seems to be the best scapegoat available.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: vinnie on February 07, 2013, 01:07:30 AM
I think it is clear. The Celtics have won 5 games in a row against incredible competition without Rajon Rondo. They clearly are a much better team without him and he clearly has no value. No sense wasting time trying to trade him. Just cut him once he returns from his injury..............................Oh, they also should get rid of Sullinger because clearly he was also bringing no value to the team. They have won 4 straight without him (he actually played a few minutes in the first of these 4 straight wins)
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: timobusa on February 07, 2013, 01:12:01 AM
I think it is clear. The Celtics have won 5 games in a row against incredible competition without Rajon Rondo. They clearly are a much better team without him and he clearly has no value. No sense wasting time trying to trade him. Just cut him once he returns from his injury..............................Oh, they also should get rid of Sullinger because clearly he was also bringing no value to the team. They have won 4 straight without him (he actually played a few minutes in the first of these 4 straight wins)

I smell the sarcasm, and I like it.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: D Dub on February 07, 2013, 01:14:19 AM
Drunk posting is a bad idea, OP.   Bad night maybe?   I'm going with .. shot down by chick, craving attention from computer.  How'd I do?
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: timobusa on February 07, 2013, 01:29:20 AM
Hey man KG looked really good tonight, but he's getting old, maybe we should trade him for Javale Mcgee, he's so athletic and he can jump over a bus, we need him, maybe we can trade PP and KG and 2389 draft picks for Javale Mcgee... We Must Do This! Cause I know all about basketball, all you need is to Jump High and Block shots and make dunks.....
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Celtics18 on February 07, 2013, 01:48:40 AM
C'mon, guys.  The OP compared Rondo to Jordan.  It can't be all bad. 
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: KG Living Legend on February 07, 2013, 04:00:17 AM

 Can someone post "Ball Hog" stats. I'd Imagine Lebron has been up there, as far as just having the ball in your possession.

 And all time. Maybe Magic, Steven Nash, Stockton, Payton, Jordan, I would love to see Time of possession stats with the greatest players ever just to see what it is.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 07, 2013, 04:48:14 AM
It's pretty crazy to me that half a season of .500 ball and a 5 game winning streak has turned so many fans against Rondo.

I will say I'm for trading him now, only because of his injury. But give me a healthy Rondo any day of the week and twice on Tuesday.

It's not the record that leads people to making these comments - it's the physical act of watching the games and seeing the team's interactions on the court.

Our defense has been outstanding (top 3 on the league if I recall) and there are statistics to prove that we are a better defensive team when Rondo is not on the court.

There are also statistics that show we aren't really any better offensively when Rondo is on the court, ultimately we are about the same.

So, when you put two and two together you get similar points scores, but less points allows - that means we are outscoring our opponents by more.

Next there is the fact that the overall spread of the scoring is more even.  Courtney Lee, Jason Terry, Leandro Barbosa and Jeff Green are all scoring more now that Rondo isn't there, and that gives us a ballanced attack.  It's harder to defend a team with multiple scoring threats then it is to defend a team with one or two scoring threats.  If Rondo was an elite (i.e. 25 PPG) scorer on a consistent basis, then it would take scoring load off Pierce and KG and it probably wouldn't matter about the other guys...but Rondo scores about 15 PPG at his best, which means Pierce and KG still need to be the ones pulling all the load.  If you have 4 or 5 guys scoring points each time (and 35-50 points from your bench) then those vets don't need to score quite so much.

Pierce had what, 12 points today?  KG had abou 27, but then he had a quiet game a few back.

Everybody here knows Rondo is an elite talent, nobody is disputing that at all.  What we are arguing is plain and simple - does this team actually play better with Rondo than without him over a full 82 game season?

Yes he is dominant in the playoffs and in the occasional big regular season game, we all know that.  But in all those other games when we get regular Rondo instead of super-human Rondo, is his presence benefitial to us? 

Honestly I think he is an elite player, but I think his play has genuinely hurt us a little this season, made it difficult for the team to be consistent and dominant.  I don't think that's all his fault. 

I think we rely on him too much for example, and I think that hurts the other players on the team. 

I also think he uses too much energy on offense, which I think hurts his ability to play solid defense. 

I also think we play him too many minutes and should keep him down around the 32 to 35 minute mark - this would ensure that he has the energy to be 'playoff Rondo' all the time.  I think it's hard to do that if you're playing close to 40 minutes per game.

I love Rondo, but I think the way he has played this year he has held back the team, and again I don't entirely blame that on him...but I do think some of it is on him. 
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: kgainez on February 07, 2013, 06:30:33 AM
It's pretty crazy to me that half a season of .500 ball and a 5 game winning streak has turned so many fans against Rondo.

I will say I'm for trading him now, only because of his injury. But give me a healthy Rondo any day of the week and twice on Tuesday.

It's not the record that leads people to making these comments - it's the physical act of watching the games and seeing the team's interactions on the court.

Our defense has been outstanding (top 3 on the league if I recall) and there are statistics to prove that we are a better defensive team when Rondo is not on the court.

There are also statistics that show we aren't really any better offensively when Rondo is on the court, ultimately we are about the same.

So, when you put two and two together you get similar points scores, but less points allows - that means we are outscoring our opponents by more.

Next there is the fact that the overall spread of the scoring is more even.  Courtney Lee, Jason Terry, Leandro Barbosa and Jeff Green are all scoring more now that Rondo isn't there, and that gives us a ballanced attack.  It's harder to defend a team with multiple scoring threats then it is to defend a team with one or two scoring threats.  If Rondo was an elite (i.e. 25 PPG) scorer on a consistent basis, then it would take scoring load off Pierce and KG and it probably wouldn't matter about the other guys...but Rondo scores about 15 PPG at his best, which means Pierce and KG still need to be the ones pulling all the load.  If you have 4 or 5 guys scoring points each time (and 35-50 points from your bench) then those vets don't need to score quite so much.

Pierce had what, 12 points today?  KG had abou 27, but then he had a quiet game a few back.

Everybody here knows Rondo is an elite talent, nobody is disputing that at all.  What we are arguing is plain and simple - does this team actually play better with Rondo than without him over a full 82 game season?

Yes he is dominant in the playoffs and in the occasional big regular season game, we all know that.  But in all those other games when we get regular Rondo instead of super-human Rondo, is his presence benefitial to us? 

Honestly I think he is an elite player, but I think his play has genuinely hurt us a little this season, made it difficult for the team to be consistent and dominant.  I don't think that's all his fault. 

I think we rely on him too much for example, and I think that hurts the other players on the team. 

I also think he uses too much energy on offense, which I think hurts his ability to play solid defense. 

I also think we play him too many minutes and should keep him down around the 32 to 35 minute mark - this would ensure that he has the energy to be 'playoff Rondo' all the time.  I think it's hard to do that if you're playing close to 40 minutes per game.

I love Rondo, but I think the way he has played this year he has held back the team, and again I don't entirely blame that on him...but I do think some of it is on him.

TP!!!!
I agree with most of the points -- I'm not sure he's held us back. But I always remember saying that we will be inconsistent as long as Rondo is inconsistent. One game he has 20+ points, the next game he has 2. I don't think that's very good...and when you're guessing as a fan of the team, which Rondo will show, I'm almost sure everyone is guessing too.

There's no consistency and it starts with our 'leader'. Everyone has given in to Rondo being the leader. He's got to step up. I don't mind him scoring 2 points a game, as long as he's dishing the ball TO EVERYONE and keeping the tempo up. But Rondo mainly passes to KG and PP. Everyone else is just standing around. And I think that's on Doc and Rondo...they think getting everyone else involved is simply giving Jeff a dunk and then not going back to him for forever.

It's a mental thing. That's obvious and unfortunately, we have no stats for that. I tend to think THIS GROUP OF TALENT is better without the ball pounding Rondo. If Rondo can come back and adapt to this with this group, we'll be excellent.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: scaryjerry on February 07, 2013, 07:14:34 AM
Now that's funny




Hey Jordan's bulls were fine the regular season after his first retirement...

Then this thing called the playoffs happened
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 07, 2013, 07:16:44 AM
Trouble is with this theory is Jordan averaged 5 APG and Rondo 10 APG.   Does he dominate the ball, sometimes, is he a ball hog, nope.

Do you ever watch James play I think prior to MIA he was the worst ball hog in terms of pointless dribbling.   He was and is a good passer and racked up assists but he dribbled the ball ad nauseum.   The less dribbling the better unless your going to the hole, a pass moves the ball quicker.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 07, 2013, 07:36:13 AM
PS. Rondo has given his heart and soul to this team, and some fans doesn't give him the respect that is due.

I'll wait till I see you "fans" post your "I wish Rondo was healthy" posts come playoff time.
TP.

It's a shame how so many fans have taken to kicking this guy when he's down, after all he's done for this organization.

Kid's a baller, and we're lucky to have him.

I'm real tired of these threads, but I fear they will continue, as long as he seems to be the best scapegoat available.
And we will keep kicking him back down, we don't want that fool running our plays anymore.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Sketch5 on February 07, 2013, 07:46:22 AM
The Problem is Rondo is only dangerous with the ball in his hand. Half the time when there is a rebound he runs to the ball, instead of  the rebounder advancing the with a pass to the closes person up the court. He then dribbles it up and makes an assist closer to the hoop.

But some times the easier play would have been the rebounder just kicking it up the side line.

Some times he waits for a play to develop instead of creating out. This causes a stagnate offense. Which makes it easy to deafened. Its also predictable.

Some one has already said this, but we are not better with out Rondo, but we are playing a better way of Basketball. We saw last night the two versions. We got up with the new style of moving the ball, but then PP kinda became Rondo ish and had the plays run threw him which slowed things down.

Im hoping Rondo sees how well the play is when with in 3 seconds of getting over half court its on the the next man instead of dribbling for 10 seconds waiting for some one to get open.

Only problem is Rondo needs to learn to cut like AB in a offense like that, because he has little out side shot and doesn't get respect, so the d can sag. I think thats why we see the style of play from Rondo. Hopefully in the offseason he gets some jump shots in.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 07, 2013, 08:01:30 AM
As Rondo goes the team goes.......too much Rondo with the ball is worst than not having him at all.

Tonight's game, we will miss Rondo.....Rondo would usually show up for games that interest him.

Raptors game was topical of the games the Celtics dropped with Rondo's lazy , low effort games, where the Celtics would fold and move on to the next game........or one Rondo feels like he should contribute and play hard.

seems the whole team does better without him screwing up the offense
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Snakehead on February 07, 2013, 08:03:35 AM
C'mon, guys.  The OP compared Rondo to Jordan.  It can't be all bad.

LOL TP.

Well there was something of worth in this thread.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Fafnir on February 07, 2013, 08:15:47 AM

There are also statistics that show we aren't really any better offensively when Rondo is on the court, ultimately we are about the same.

Those don't really exist. The on/off court numbers show that we turn the ball over less, get to the free throw line only 2 times less per 48 and shoot better efg% when he's on the court.

The one and only reason our ORTG was lower with him "on" the court was our offensive rebounding was far worse with him on the court. Essentially he played a lot of minutes without Sullinger as he was our best, only really, offensive rebounding threat. Even the FTA differential was likely due to the offensive board difference as putbacks draw so many foul shots.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Fafnir on February 07, 2013, 08:17:14 AM
Given that Rondo isn't even the biggest ball hog in the league currently by a long shot, he has some serious work to do to compare to Jordan.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 07, 2013, 08:21:05 AM
This is downright stupid, for lack of a better word.
A ball hog that gets 11 assists per game.

And don't come back with the " he gets the assists cause he holds the ball too much" or " he stat pads "

30 out of 30 teams in this league would easily take Rondo with open arms, regardless of his "attitude problem" as some would call it, I prefer to call it his Edge.

This team has used Rondo as a crutch when he's on the floor, and that's on Doc, and on the team. That's what he preaches, get the ball to Rondo, he'll make the plays.
But that doesn't always work, as we all know.
I think this team has turned a new page, realizing that they can move the ball and easily get buckets.
A healthy Rondo can and will adapt to the new system, he is the best passer in the league for crying out loud.

If I could close this thread I would..
SMH some people..

This about sums it up.


Now that's funny




Hey Jordan's bulls were fine the regular season after his first retirement...

Then this thing called the playoffs happened

And this is also a good point. Rondo has always "pounded the ball" into the ground. And the team has had incredible success doing so. Why should Rondo and the Celtics successful system change just because 9 new players are here adapting to it.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: JumpingJudkins on February 07, 2013, 08:56:27 AM
Rondo is a great player, and we're unfortunately not winning anything without him. Maybe his absence, though, will be a wakeup call to Doc.

 It's been enormously frustrating the last two or three years watching the stagnant offense. Rondo dribbling the ball for 19 seconds, waiting for someone to come off a screen, or waiting for PP or KG to get post up position on their defenders, while they're being overplayed or double-teamed. My son thinks I'm crazy when I keep screaming "Move the ball!!" at the TV screen.

Without Rondo, the offense is moving (though making some atrocious passes, at least last night). Without Rondo, the offense is pushing the ball up the court with the pass -- looking for the player furthest ahead with the outlet, rather than tossing the ball backwards or to wherever Rondo happens to be at that time.

It's pretty to see, and I hope Doc somehow notices this. They can easily run the same offense with Rondo, and it would be even better.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 07, 2013, 08:57:49 AM
Is ball hogging bad?
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: celticsleyte on February 07, 2013, 09:13:25 AM
Now that's funny




Hey Jordan's bulls were fine the regular season after his first retirement...

Then this thing called the playoffs happened
you got that right, I am not looking forward to the playoffs without Rondo.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: BballTim on February 07, 2013, 12:34:18 PM
It's pretty crazy to me that half a season of .500 ball and a 5 game winning streak has turned so many fans against Rondo.

I will say I'm for trading him now, only because of his injury. But give me a healthy Rondo any day of the week and twice on Tuesday.

It's not the record that leads people to making these comments - it's the physical act of watching the games and seeing the team's interactions on the court.

Our defense has been outstanding (top 3 on the league if I recall) and there are statistics to prove that we are a better defensive team when Rondo is not on the court.

There are also statistics that show we aren't really any better offensively when Rondo is on the court, ultimately we are about the same.

So, when you put two and two together you get similar points scores, but less points allows - that means we are outscoring our opponents by more.

  Stats say whatever you want them to. The main reason we're better on defense with Rondo out is because Rondo plays a lot of minutes with KG on the bench, and our defense is bad without KG no matter which guards are in.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: BballTim on February 07, 2013, 12:53:18 PM
The Problem is Rondo is only dangerous with the ball in his hand. Half the time when there is a rebound he runs to the ball, instead of  the rebounder advancing the with a pass to the closes person up the court. He then dribbles it up and makes an assist closer to the hoop.

But some times the easier play would have been the rebounder just kicking it up the side line.

Some times he waits for a play to develop instead of creating out. This causes a stagnate offense. Which makes it easy to deafened. Its also predictable.

Some one has already said this, but we are not better with out Rondo, but we are playing a better way of Basketball. We saw last night the two versions. We got up with the new style of moving the ball, but then PP kinda became Rondo ish and had the plays run threw him which slowed things down.

Im hoping Rondo sees how well the play is when with in 3 seconds of getting over half court its on the the next man instead of dribbling for 10 seconds waiting for some one to get open.

  The problem with posts like this is that we're probably getting fewer fast break points now than we did when Rondo was playing. People are comparing what's happening now to a version of Rondo that never existed, either because they just hate watching Rondo play, they only notice a few events in a game and assume that the same thing happens over the other 45 or so minutes or they're heavily influenced by what they read on the internet.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 07, 2013, 01:27:09 PM
The Problem is Rondo is only dangerous with the ball in his hand. Half the time when there is a rebound he runs to the ball, instead of  the rebounder advancing the with a pass to the closes person up the court. He then dribbles it up and makes an assist closer to the hoop.

But some times the easier play would have been the rebounder just kicking it up the side line.

Some times he waits for a play to develop instead of creating out. This causes a stagnate offense. Which makes it easy to deafened. Its also predictable.

Some one has already said this, but we are not better with out Rondo, but we are playing a better way of Basketball. We saw last night the two versions. We got up with the new style of moving the ball, but then PP kinda became Rondo ish and had the plays run threw him which slowed things down.

Im hoping Rondo sees how well the play is when with in 3 seconds of getting over half court its on the the next man instead of dribbling for 10 seconds waiting for some one to get open.

  The problem with posts like this is that we're probably getting fewer fast break points now than we did when Rondo was playing.

This column, though not exactly measuring fast-break points, seems to suggest the opposite:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4702007/taking-advantage-of-turnovers
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: Fafnir on February 07, 2013, 01:35:25 PM
The Problem is Rondo is only dangerous with the ball in his hand. Half the time when there is a rebound he runs to the ball, instead of  the rebounder advancing the with a pass to the closes person up the court. He then dribbles it up and makes an assist closer to the hoop.

But some times the easier play would have been the rebounder just kicking it up the side line.

Some times he waits for a play to develop instead of creating out. This causes a stagnate offense. Which makes it easy to deafened. Its also predictable.

Some one has already said this, but we are not better with out Rondo, but we are playing a better way of Basketball. We saw last night the two versions. We got up with the new style of moving the ball, but then PP kinda became Rondo ish and had the plays run threw him which slowed things down.

Im hoping Rondo sees how well the play is when with in 3 seconds of getting over half court its on the the next man instead of dribbling for 10 seconds waiting for some one to get open.

  The problem with posts like this is that we're probably getting fewer fast break points now than we did when Rondo was playing.

This column, though not exactly measuring fast-break points, seems to suggest the opposite:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4702007/taking-advantage-of-turnovers
As you say that's flawed as a half court basket after a dead ball turnover is 2 points off of a turnover.

We're definitely forcing more turnovers. Against the Kings/Clippers we scored a ton of our points that way.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 07, 2013, 01:39:01 PM
The Problem is Rondo is only dangerous with the ball in his hand. Half the time when there is a rebound he runs to the ball, instead of  the rebounder advancing the with a pass to the closes person up the court. He then dribbles it up and makes an assist closer to the hoop.

But some times the easier play would have been the rebounder just kicking it up the side line.

Some times he waits for a play to develop instead of creating out. This causes a stagnate offense. Which makes it easy to deafened. Its also predictable.

Some one has already said this, but we are not better with out Rondo, but we are playing a better way of Basketball. We saw last night the two versions. We got up with the new style of moving the ball, but then PP kinda became Rondo ish and had the plays run threw him which slowed things down.

Im hoping Rondo sees how well the play is when with in 3 seconds of getting over half court its on the the next man instead of dribbling for 10 seconds waiting for some one to get open.

  The problem with posts like this is that we're probably getting fewer fast break points now than we did when Rondo was playing.

This column, though not exactly measuring fast-break points, seems to suggest the opposite:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4702007/taking-advantage-of-turnovers
As you say that's flawed as a half court basket after a dead ball turnover is 2 points off of a turnover.

We're definitely forcing more turnovers. Against the Kings/Clippers we scored a ton of our points that way.

Yep. And it be hard to imagine that we're getting these results without better conversion on fast break opportunities. What I'm observing seems to be in line with that insinuation, particularly with Jeff Green and how he's been getting up the floor.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: BballTim on February 07, 2013, 01:40:56 PM
The Problem is Rondo is only dangerous with the ball in his hand. Half the time when there is a rebound he runs to the ball, instead of  the rebounder advancing the with a pass to the closes person up the court. He then dribbles it up and makes an assist closer to the hoop.

But some times the easier play would have been the rebounder just kicking it up the side line.

Some times he waits for a play to develop instead of creating out. This causes a stagnate offense. Which makes it easy to deafened. Its also predictable.

Some one has already said this, but we are not better with out Rondo, but we are playing a better way of Basketball. We saw last night the two versions. We got up with the new style of moving the ball, but then PP kinda became Rondo ish and had the plays run threw him which slowed things down.

Im hoping Rondo sees how well the play is when with in 3 seconds of getting over half court its on the the next man instead of dribbling for 10 seconds waiting for some one to get open.

  The problem with posts like this is that we're probably getting fewer fast break points now than we did when Rondo was playing.

This column, though not exactly measuring fast-break points, seems to suggest the opposite:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4702007/taking-advantage-of-turnovers

  I'd say the stats that do measure fast break points would agree with me, even those from espn.
Title: Re: Rondo is the Biggest Ball Hog since Jordan.
Post by: ScottHow on February 07, 2013, 02:04:03 PM
Now that's funny




Hey Jordan's bulls were fine the regular season after his first retirement...

Then this thing called the playoffs happened

There you go. Tp