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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Rondo2287 on February 06, 2013, 07:32:11 AM

Title: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Rondo2287 on February 06, 2013, 07:32:11 AM
Last night I was listening to 98.5 and Felger had what I thought might be his first good celtics analysis/point. (The good point is in bold below)

It all started with the KG "I bleed green, I die green" quote.  Here is how the conversation went down.

Quote
Felger: "He means it, thats not BS, KG is Loyal to a fault he didnt want to leave minnesota of all places, and they had nothing going for them."

Tony: "He also said he wont leave unless Pierce is traded too, you know what this tells me?  Beyond all other things, Pierce and KG connect on a way that Ray never did with either of them and a way that Rondo probably never will."

Felger: "Look at what the celtics did, they offered 3 years and no trade protection to both Ray and KG, in a league that doesnt offer trade protection.  The Owners hate the look of that building when the team is headed for the lottery and nobody cares, they like being on TNT in May and have no idea of going back into the lottery.

Danny may even get a team to buy into a trade for both Pierce and Garnet but if he does he needs to get ownership to sign off on it.  I don't think they will, this team is going to expect danny to weave his magic and rebuild from the middle again rather than go back to the bottom and wait for the ping pong balls."
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 06, 2013, 07:34:19 AM
Falso!
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Jeff on February 06, 2013, 07:39:08 AM
that is a good point - I don't think the owners want to do the lottery route again - they've tasted success and gotten accustomed to it
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Roy H. on February 06, 2013, 08:15:40 AM
I think it's going to be hard to:

1. Avoid the lottery;

2. Not trade off any of our stars; and

3. Build a contender.

I do agree, though, that Wyc seems to be attached to his stars. 
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: OhioGreen on February 06, 2013, 08:33:55 AM
I think right now, Danny has only two alternatives, and believe he's leaning toward #2.

1) by the 21st, blow the team sky high, and I've no clue as to what explosive used and where it would be placed(it's also my preference!)

2) he is going to yield to the clamoring of the fans(and probably ownership, too)to ride out this year, and very likely next year too(out of necessity), and then most probably watch KG and PP both retire.  It will leave the Celtics with no PP, no KG, no young potential building blocks acquired thru trading them, and no additional draft picks acquired thru trading them, and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's, and certainly won't when seeing a team with the potential to be one of the worst in the league!
Danny, at some point next season, will announce he's stepping down as GM and moving on! At season's end Doc will follow, and the next wasteland in Celtic history will begin!

Now, I love PP and KG, and I look forward to seeing their numbers hanging from the rafters one day, but #2 above is not a price I would be willing to pay for it!  Apparently, most fans here are!!
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: StartOrien on February 06, 2013, 08:39:47 AM
I think it's going to be hard to:

1. Avoid the lottery;

2. Not trade off any of our stars; and

3. Build a contender.

I do agree, though, that Wyc seems to be attached to his stars.

I get the feeling, or I'm fooling myself into thinking this way - that Wyc thinks like a lot of us: Would rather enjoy watching Garnett and Pierce play out their careers in Boston then trade them away for B-C list prospects. Even if it means understanding that they won't realistically contend.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: jgod213 on February 06, 2013, 08:56:17 AM
"The Owners hate the look of that building when the team is headed for the lottery and nobody cares"

I can't agree with that assessment. Casueway street fans are pretty consistent in their passion.  The Celts and Bruins have experienced very recent years of turmoil and a strong fan base has always been there. 

I think that's one of the reassuring points for management regarding the Celtics' current situation.  Wyc knows that, if he chooses to, he can ride out the Peirce/KG years & fall back into rebuild mode while still maintaining a high level of support from the fans.

But as Jeff said, i think that taste of success is going to make swallowing that pill pretty difficult.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Celtics18 on February 06, 2013, 09:02:00 AM
I think right now, Danny has only two alternatives, and believe he's leaning toward #2.

1) by the 21st, blow the team sky high, and I've no clue as to what explosive used and where it would be placed(it's also my preference!)

2) he is going to yield to the clamoring of the fans(and probably ownership, too)to ride out this year, and very likely next year too(out of necessity), and then most probably watch KG and PP both retire.  It will leave the Celtics with no PP, no KG, no young potential building blocks acquired thru trading them, and no additional draft picks acquired thru trading them, and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's, and certainly won't when seeing a team with the potential to be one of the worst in the league!
Danny, at some point next season, will announce he's stepping down as GM and moving on! At season's end Doc will follow, and the next wasteland in Celtic history will begin!

Now, I love PP and KG, and I look forward to seeing their numbers hanging from the rafters one day, but #2 above is not a price I would be willing to pay for it!  Apparently, most fans here are!!

I'm willing to take my chances with #2, but I don't necessarily see the same outcome as you do.  We already have some potential building blocks.  The primary one, of course, is Rajon Rondo.  Bradley, Sully, and even Melo all have the potential to be good players.  Even Green, Lee, and Bass have the potential to either be pieces to the next generation or pieces to be used to build it.

It'll take a combination of smart signings, smart trades, and smart draft choices to stay in the hunt.  And, it will surely take a little luck, but I'm not buying the theory that inevitable doom and gloom will befall the Celtics if we don't trade Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett today. 
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: LooseCannon on February 06, 2013, 09:02:35 AM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Rondo2287 on February 06, 2013, 09:05:10 AM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.

Very good point
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Roy H. on February 06, 2013, 09:08:12 AM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.

Very good point

Yeah, that's how Cleveland landed Kyrie Irving.  (How monumentally stupid of the Clippers not to insist on #1 protection on that pick.)  OKC also obtained the draft pick they used on Serge Ibaka by taking on excess salary.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Chris on February 06, 2013, 09:09:47 AM
As with any sports radio guy, he goes a bit overboard, but I think the overall point is sound.  I think ownership does not want to bottom out.  Honestly, I think Danny would prefer not to bottom out either. 

I also think both Danny and the owners are open to options though.  I just don't think tanking for the lottery is very high on that list. 

They are willing to trade KG and Pierce, but only if they are going to be getting great value for them, and they can see a short-term plan to turn that value into on court production.  If not, then they will play the waiting game, and continue trying to build value around those guys.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: scaryjerry on February 06, 2013, 09:37:00 AM
Not buying what Tony said about Ray not having a connection those 2 did...I find that actually absurd...revisionist history is cool though...best friends some times go their separate ways and in this case Ray was every bit the friend in the group as the rest, and at first was even closer to rondo then the rest....he wasn't loyal to a fault because neither were the Celtics with him..kg and pierce aren't in love here on another plateau and need to be together.

As far as felger....mmmmmeh his Celtics opinions still stuck....solid in the other major sports though
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: TripleOT on February 06, 2013, 09:42:12 AM

Yeah, that's how Cleveland landed Kyrie Irving.  (How monumentally stupid of the Clippers not to insist on #1 protection on that pick.)  OKC also obtained the draft pick they used on Serge Ibaka by taking on excess salary.

Looked at singularly, not attaching protection to that pick was a mistake.  Looking at the whole picture, things worked out very well for the Clippers.  Jettisoning BD helped them re-structure their roster and be in a position to acquire the best PG in the game.

Maybe the Cavs don't do that deal if the pick had top 3 protection on it.     
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: OhioGreen on February 06, 2013, 09:42:37 AM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.

Very good point

Yeah, that's how Cleveland landed Kyrie Irving.  (How monumentally stupid of the Clippers not to insist on #1 protection on that pick.)  OKC also obtained the draft pick they used on Serge Ibaka by taking on excess salary.

True to say, but why would you wait to get picks, and take on bad contracts, when apparently we're already being offered players like Bledsoe,DJordan,Barnes,Ezelie,KLeonard,TSplitter(though none of these absolutely confirmed), and or picks, with expiring contracts RIGHT NOW, when you have a team that most would concede has virtually no chance at winning a title---just so you can see KG and PP retire in green??
We could start rebuilding NOW, with young players with execellent potential to ADD to RR,AB,Sully, and maybe Melo and be off to a good start TODAY, not two or three years from now!
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Rondo2287 on February 06, 2013, 09:45:10 AM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.

Very good point

Yeah, that's how Cleveland landed Kyrie Irving.  (How monumentally stupid of the Clippers not to insist on #1 protection on that pick.)  OKC also obtained the draft pick they used on Serge Ibaka by taking on excess salary.

True to say, but why would you wait to get picks, and take on bad contracts, when apparently we're already being offered players like Bledsoe,DJordan,Barnes,Ezelie,KLeonard,TSplitter(though none of these absolutely confirmed), and or picks, with expiring contracts RIGHT NOW, when you have a team that most would concede has virtually no chance at winning a title---just so you can see KG and PP retire in green??
We could start rebuilding NOW, with young players with execellent potential to ADD to RR,AB,Sully, and maybe Melo and be off to a good start TODAY, not two or three years from now!

Because all those players you mentioned are good players but not difference makers
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: libermaniac on February 06, 2013, 09:50:39 AM

Yeah, that's how Cleveland landed Kyrie Irving.  (How monumentally stupid of the Clippers not to insist on #1 protection on that pick.)  OKC also obtained the draft pick they used on Serge Ibaka by taking on excess salary.

Looked at singularly, not attaching protection to that pick was a mistake.  Looking at the whole picture, things worked out very well for the Clippers.  Jettisoning BD helped them re-structure their roster and be in a position to acquire the best PG in the game.

Maybe the Cavs don't do that deal if the pick had top 3 protection on it.   

Ironically, however, the Clips could've amnestied Baron at the start of the following season if they'd not done the deal. (Obviously, they didn't know this at the time). Then, they could've traded the #1 pick for other serious assets to pair with CP3 and Griffin.  Or, you might argue that NO would've demanded that pick for CP3, but then they would've retained Eric Gordon and could've traded him.  Point is, it didn't work out quite as well for the Clips as they'd like to insist.  Stupid trade.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: LB3533 on February 06, 2013, 10:09:05 AM
Not buying what Tony said about Ray not having a connection those 2 did...I find that actually absurd...revisionist history is cool though...best friends some times go their separate ways and in this case Ray was every bit the friend in the group as the rest, and at first was even closer to rondo then the rest....he wasn't loyal to a fault because neither were the Celtics with him..kg and pierce aren't in love here on another plateau and need to be together.

As far as felger....mmmmmeh his Celtics opinions still stuck....solid in the other major sports though

Agree 100%.

The NBA is also a business!!!
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: KCattheStripe on February 06, 2013, 10:10:11 AM
I don't think Wyc is dumb enough to not realize that once KG and Pierce retire they have a lottery team anyway.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: OhioGreen on February 06, 2013, 10:11:55 AM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.

Very good point

Yeah, that's how Cleveland landed Kyrie Irving.  (How monumentally stupid of the Clippers not to insist on #1 protection on that pick.)  OKC also obtained the draft pick they used on Serge Ibaka by taking on excess salary.

True to say, but why would you wait to get picks, and take on bad contracts, when apparently we're already being offered players like Bledsoe,DJordan,Barnes,Ezelie,KLeonard,TSplitter(though none of these absolutely confirmed), and or picks, with expiring contracts RIGHT NOW, when you have a team that most would concede has virtually no chance at winning a title---just so you can see KG and PP retire in green??
We could start rebuilding NOW, with young players with execellent potential to ADD to RR,AB,Sully, and maybe Melo and be off to a good start TODAY, not two or three years from now!

Because all those players you mentioned are good players but not difference makers

If we could be guaranteed players like those with mid to midlate first round picks, you'd pass?????????
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: action781 on February 06, 2013, 10:12:13 AM
"The Owners hate the look of that building when the team is headed for the lottery and nobody cares"

I can't agree with that assessment. Casueway street fans are pretty consistent in their passion.  The Celts and Bruins have experienced very recent years of turmoil and a strong fan base has always been there. 

I think that's one of the reassuring points for management regarding the Celtics' current situation.  Wyc knows that, if he chooses to, he can ride out the Peirce/KG years & fall back into rebuild mode while still maintaining a high level of support from the fans.

But as Jeff said, i think that taste of success is going to make swallowing that pill pretty difficult.

2000-02 I only attended a few games and they were playoff games and the garden was hopping.  I was also like 18 years old so maybe I was just that amped up.

2005-07 the Garden was very weak.  I attended a couple games a year and there were always empty seats.  It was one of those places where you went to the game to see the opponent's star players [Lebron] almost as much as you went to see the celtics.  I would sit in complete frustration as CP3 completely locked down whoever we threw in there at pg and it seemed that nobody around me cared at all.

2008+ the Garden has been hopping again to unbelievable levels.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: StartOrien on February 06, 2013, 10:15:31 AM
"The Owners hate the look of that building when the team is headed for the lottery and nobody cares"

I can't agree with that assessment. Casueway street fans are pretty consistent in their passion.  The Celts and Bruins have experienced very recent years of turmoil and a strong fan base has always been there. 

I think that's one of the reassuring points for management regarding the Celtics' current situation.  Wyc knows that, if he chooses to, he can ride out the Peirce/KG years & fall back into rebuild mode while still maintaining a high level of support from the fans.

But as Jeff said, i think that taste of success is going to make swallowing that pill pretty difficult.

2000-02 I only attended a few games and they were playoff games and the garden was hopping.  I was also like 18 years old so maybe I was just that amped up.

2005-07 the Garden was very weak.  I attended a couple games a year and there were always empty seats.  It was one of those places where you went to the game to see the opponent's star players [Lebron] almost as much as you went to see the celtics.  I would sit in complete frustration as CP3 completely locked down whoever we threw in there at pg and it seemed that nobody around me cared at all.

2008+ the Garden has been hopping again to unbelievable levels.

I disagree here. Of course there were empty seats, but I think people 'brought it' about as much as they could. You'll get people rooting for stars, but I thought people rooted about as hard as they could for a truly bad team.

A game against the Nets when Perkins and Jefferson really rebounded well stands out as a great night at the Garden for me.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Roy H. on February 06, 2013, 10:18:30 AM
"The Owners hate the look of that building when the team is headed for the lottery and nobody cares"

I can't agree with that assessment. Casueway street fans are pretty consistent in their passion.  The Celts and Bruins have experienced very recent years of turmoil and a strong fan base has always been there. 

I think that's one of the reassuring points for management regarding the Celtics' current situation.  Wyc knows that, if he chooses to, he can ride out the Peirce/KG years & fall back into rebuild mode while still maintaining a high level of support from the fans.

But as Jeff said, i think that taste of success is going to make swallowing that pill pretty difficult.

2000-02 I only attended a few games and they were playoff games and the garden was hopping.  I was also like 18 years old so maybe I was just that amped up.

2005-07 the Garden was very weak.  I attended a couple games a year and there were always empty seats.  It was one of those places where you went to the game to see the opponent's star players [Lebron] almost as much as you went to see the celtics.  I would sit in complete frustration as CP3 completely locked down whoever we threw in there at pg and it seemed that nobody around me cared at all.

2008+ the Garden has been hopping again to unbelievable levels.

In terms of attendance:

2003:  17,293 per game
2004:  16,201 per game
2005:  16,001 per game
2006:  16,899 per game
2007:  16,843 per game
2008:  18,624 per game 

The Celtics have been at full capacity every year since except for 2010, when they still averaged over 18,000 fans per game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Eddie20 on February 06, 2013, 10:35:01 AM
I also liked what Maz said yesterday. He said that he first noticed Rondo "stealing" rebounds away from the bigs in order to jack up his numbers during the 2009 playoffs. I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season. He went on to add that the importance of that is it slows down your potential fastbreak as instead of running out to receive the outlet pass, he's instead down low padding his numbers.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: StartOrien on February 06, 2013, 10:37:32 AM
I love Tony Maz about as much as any other radio personality, but I wish he'd shut the heck up when it came to the Celtics.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Fafnir on February 06, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
I also liked what Maz said yesterday. He said that he first noticed Rondo "stealing" rebounds away from the bigs in order to jack up his numbers during the 2009 playoffs. I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season. He went on to add that the importance of that is it slows down your potential fastbreak as instead of running out to receive the outlet pass, he's instead down low padding his numbers.
1. We're an okay defensive rebounding team, but we absolutely need Rondo to crash the glass. We need his rebounding. So if he's going to be crashing instead of outletting then its absolutely better for him to get the ball instead of a big. You can think we should have him release more, but overall I prefer him utilizing his nose for the ball with this team's personale.

2. It can slow down the fast break, or it can speed it up. Many times the bigs man will successfully prevent an quick outlet pass and this eliminates the break. With Rondo getting the ball he can just dribble down the court, if someone tries to pick him up before halfcourt it usually results in Rondo going by him.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on February 06, 2013, 10:39:33 AM
I also liked what Maz said yesterday. He said that he first noticed Rondo "stealing" rebounds away from the bigs in order to jack up his numbers during the 2009 playoffs. I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season. He went on to add that the importance of that is it slows down your potential fastbreak as instead of running out to receive the outlet pass, he's instead down low padding his numbers.
1. We're an okay defensive rebounding team, but we absolutely need Rondo to crash the glass. We need his rebounding. If he's going to be crashing instead of outletting then its absolutely better for him to get the ball instead of a big.

2. It can slow down the fast break, or it can speed it up. Many times the bigs man will successfully prevent an quick outlet pass and this eliminates the break. With Rondo getting the ball he can just dribble down the court, if someone tries to pick him up before halfcourt it usually results in Rondo going by him.

That's how I see it.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Fafnir on February 06, 2013, 10:41:45 AM
I also liked what Maz said yesterday. He said that he first noticed Rondo "stealing" rebounds away from the bigs in order to jack up his numbers during the 2009 playoffs. I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season. He went on to add that the importance of that is it slows down your potential fastbreak as instead of running out to receive the outlet pass, he's instead down low padding his numbers.
I will say that during several of Rondo's triple double games where he needs just a rebound or two more late in the game, I've seen him zone up and stay near the paint hunting for a rebound if he thinks a shot is going up instead of staying with his man.

This can result in wide open jumpers for his man, poor rotations, or his man sneaking in for a put back.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 10:46:41 AM
I will say that during several of Rondo's triple double games where he needs just a rebound or two more late in the game, I've seen him zone up and stay near the paint hunting for a rebound if he thinks a shot is going up instead of staying with his man.
Oh yeah, most of the time when he's a rebound or so short it's quite clear that he's going out of his way to get it.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: CelticG1 on February 06, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
"The Owners hate the look of that building when the team is headed for the lottery and nobody cares"

I can't agree with that assessment. Casueway street fans are pretty consistent in their passion.  The Celts and Bruins have experienced very recent years of turmoil and a strong fan base has always been there. 

I think that's one of the reassuring points for management regarding the Celtics' current situation.  Wyc knows that, if he chooses to, he can ride out the Peirce/KG years & fall back into rebuild mode while still maintaining a high level of support from the fans.

But as Jeff said, i think that taste of success is going to make swallowing that pill pretty difficult.

2000-02 I only attended a few games and they were playoff games and the garden was hopping.  I was also like 18 years old so maybe I was just that amped up.

2005-07 the Garden was very weak.  I attended a couple games a year and there were always empty seats.  It was one of those places where you went to the game to see the opponent's star players [Lebron] almost as much as you went to see the celtics.  I would sit in complete frustration as CP3 completely locked down whoever we threw in there at pg and it seemed that nobody around me cared at all.

2008+ the Garden has been hopping again to unbelievable levels.

In terms of attendance:

2003:  17,293 per game
2004:  16,201 per game
2005:  16,001 per game
2006:  16,899 per game
2007:  16,843 per game
2008:  18,624 per game 

The Celtics have been at full capacity every year since except for 2010, when they still averaged over 18,000 fans per game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

Is that kind of like the red sox sell out streak?

I remember getting those $10 tix on game nights and then having my pick of where to sit when I got in.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 06, 2013, 10:48:48 AM
I think it's going to be hard to:

1. Avoid the lottery;

2. Not trade off any of our stars; and

3. Build a contender.

I do agree, though, that Wyc seems to be attached to his stars.

Wyc should be
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: BballTim on February 06, 2013, 10:54:36 AM
I also liked what Maz said yesterday. He said that he first noticed Rondo "stealing" rebounds away from the bigs in order to jack up his numbers during the 2009 playoffs. I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season. He went on to add that the importance of that is it slows down your potential fastbreak as instead of running out to receive the outlet pass, he's instead down low padding his numbers.

  Yes, we were absolute rebounding monsters in the 2009 playoffs without KG. Perk held his own, but that Baby/Scal/Moore combo was Rodman-like. Too funny.


Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: LooseCannon on February 06, 2013, 10:55:20 AM
I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 11:00:19 AM
I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.
That's not the way it typically pans out though. These are mostly uncontested rebounds where the opposition is pulling back, and Rondo has time to step in towards the paint and gobble it up.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Snakehead on February 06, 2013, 11:00:32 AM
I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.

Seriously.

Do we think Bass is some great rebounder?

How's his rebounding been since Rondo has been out? 4, 4, 7, 8

Also, how come Sully doesn't have this problem?

I do think there may be something to be said about him slowing down the break, but I also think people are overblowing us being more of a fast break team with Rondo out anyways.

I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.
That's not the way it typically pans out though. These are mostly uncontested rebounds where the opposition is pulling back, and Rondo has time to step in towards the paint and gobble it up.

If this even was the case, if Rondo can easily walk in and grab most of say 10 rebounds he gets in a triple double game that some of you guys are saying he is padding, you think that means we have good rebounders under the hoop? 

Someone has to grab the ball.  If our bigs are letting players just go grab the ball then they just aren't good rebounders really.  Again, Sullinger doesn't have this issue.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 11:06:25 AM
I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.

Seriously.

Do we think Bass is some great rebounder?

How's his rebounding been since Rondo has been out? 4, 4, 7, 8

Also, how come Sully doesn't have this problem?

I do think there may be something to be said about him slowing down the break, but I also think people are overblowing us being more of a fast break team with Rondo out anyways.

I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.
That's not the way it typically pans out though. These are mostly uncontested rebounds where the opposition is pulling back, and Rondo has time to step in towards the paint and gobble it up.

If this even was the case, if Rondo can easily walk in and grab most of say 10 rebounds he gets in a triple double game that some of you guys are saying he is padding, you think that means we have good rebounders under the hoop? 

Someone has to grab the ball.  If our bigs are letting players just go grab the ball then they just aren't good rebounders really.  Again, Sullinger doesn't have this issue.
This is not about Bass, Sullinger, or anyone else. It's about Rondo and how he clearly goes out of his way to pad his stats when he's approaching a triple double.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Snakehead on February 06, 2013, 11:10:53 AM
I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.

Seriously.

Do we think Bass is some great rebounder?

How's his rebounding been since Rondo has been out? 4, 4, 7, 8

Also, how come Sully doesn't have this problem?

I do think there may be something to be said about him slowing down the break, but I also think people are overblowing us being more of a fast break team with Rondo out anyways.

I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.
That's not the way it typically pans out though. These are mostly uncontested rebounds where the opposition is pulling back, and Rondo has time to step in towards the paint and gobble it up.

If this even was the case, if Rondo can easily walk in and grab most of say 10 rebounds he gets in a triple double game that some of you guys are saying he is padding, you think that means we have good rebounders under the hoop? 

Someone has to grab the ball.  If our bigs are letting players just go grab the ball then they just aren't good rebounders really.  Again, Sullinger doesn't have this issue.
This is not about Bass, Sullinger, or anyone else. It's about Rondo and how he clearly goes out of his way to pad his stats when he's approaching a triple double.

But in fact it is about all of our bigs.

If they aren't going to go get rebounds, someone has to.  Otherwise the opposing team will.

I agree that at times Rondo can pad stats, it's clear to see when he avoids a layup for a tough assist or like Faf said, when he's trying to get that last rebounding for a triple double, but lets not act as if Rondo's rebounding is "stealing" from our bigs.  Our bigs are just not good rebounders. 

Rondo is a great rebounder for a guard.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: StartOrien on February 06, 2013, 11:12:19 AM
"The Owners hate the look of that building when the team is headed for the lottery and nobody cares"

I can't agree with that assessment. Casueway street fans are pretty consistent in their passion.  The Celts and Bruins have experienced very recent years of turmoil and a strong fan base has always been there. 

I think that's one of the reassuring points for management regarding the Celtics' current situation.  Wyc knows that, if he chooses to, he can ride out the Peirce/KG years & fall back into rebuild mode while still maintaining a high level of support from the fans.

But as Jeff said, i think that taste of success is going to make swallowing that pill pretty difficult.

2000-02 I only attended a few games and they were playoff games and the garden was hopping.  I was also like 18 years old so maybe I was just that amped up.

2005-07 the Garden was very weak.  I attended a couple games a year and there were always empty seats.  It was one of those places where you went to the game to see the opponent's star players [Lebron] almost as much as you went to see the celtics.  I would sit in complete frustration as CP3 completely locked down whoever we threw in there at pg and it seemed that nobody around me cared at all.

2008+ the Garden has been hopping again to unbelievable levels.

In terms of attendance:

2003:  17,293 per game
2004:  16,201 per game
2005:  16,001 per game
2006:  16,899 per game
2007:  16,843 per game
2008:  18,624 per game 

The Celtics have been at full capacity every year since except for 2010, when they still averaged over 18,000 fans per game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

Is that kind of like the red sox sell out streak?

I remember getting those $10 tix on game nights and then having my pick of where to sit when I got in.

I'm guessing that it's season ticket holders skipping games or unable to sell them, because on a Tuesday night against someone like the Jazz I remember the balcony being pretty wide open.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Celtics18 on February 06, 2013, 11:17:57 AM
I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.

Seriously.

Do we think Bass is some great rebounder?

How's his rebounding been since Rondo has been out? 4, 4, 7, 8

Also, how come Sully doesn't have this problem?

I do think there may be something to be said about him slowing down the break, but I also think people are overblowing us being more of a fast break team with Rondo out anyways.

I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.
That's not the way it typically pans out though. These are mostly uncontested rebounds where the opposition is pulling back, and Rondo has time to step in towards the paint and gobble it up.

If this even was the case, if Rondo can easily walk in and grab most of say 10 rebounds he gets in a triple double game that some of you guys are saying he is padding, you think that means we have good rebounders under the hoop? 

Someone has to grab the ball.  If our bigs are letting players just go grab the ball then they just aren't good rebounders really.  Again, Sullinger doesn't have this issue.
This is not about Bass, Sullinger, or anyone else. It's about Rondo and how he clearly goes out of his way to pad his stats when he's approaching a triple double.

But in fact it is about all of our bigs.

If they aren't going to go get rebounds, someone has to.  Otherwise the opposing team will.

I agree that at times Rondo can pad stats, it's clear to see when he avoids a layup for a tough assist or like Faf said, when he's trying to get that last rebounding for a triple double, but lets not act as if Rondo's rebounding is "stealing" from our bigs.  Our bigs are just not good rebounders. 

Rondo is a great rebounder for a guard.

I think I'm starting to get the pattern with Rondo.  Every time he makes a great pass, he's simply trying to pad his assist stats.  Every time he beats everybody else on the floor for a loose ball, he's simply trying to pad his rebound stats.  Every time he makes a good read and steps in the passing lane to pick off a pass, he's simply trying to pad his steals stats.  The only time he's not being an egotistical player is when he shoots the ball.

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous. 
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: BballTim on February 06, 2013, 11:38:24 AM
I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.

Seriously.

Do we think Bass is some great rebounder?

How's his rebounding been since Rondo has been out? 4, 4, 7, 8

Also, how come Sully doesn't have this problem?

I do think there may be something to be said about him slowing down the break, but I also think people are overblowing us being more of a fast break team with Rondo out anyways.

I actually have noticed him taking a bunch of them away Bass this season.

I'd rather have Rondo "stealing" a rebound from Bass rather than a player on an opposing team doing it, which probably happens more often then we like.
That's not the way it typically pans out though. These are mostly uncontested rebounds where the opposition is pulling back, and Rondo has time to step in towards the paint and gobble it up.

If this even was the case, if Rondo can easily walk in and grab most of say 10 rebounds he gets in a triple double game that some of you guys are saying he is padding, you think that means we have good rebounders under the hoop? 

Someone has to grab the ball.  If our bigs are letting players just go grab the ball then they just aren't good rebounders really.  Again, Sullinger doesn't have this issue.
This is not about Bass, Sullinger, or anyone else. It's about Rondo and how he clearly goes out of his way to pad his stats when he's approaching a triple double.

  There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 11:44:06 AM
There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: CelticG1 on February 06, 2013, 11:55:26 AM
The stupid part to me of their convo yesterday was pointing to the last 4 games and saying the C's play harder and better without Rondo and conveniently leaving out the past 4 or so years where we have been extremely successful.

And then Tony remembering some specific game from like 4 years ago to somehow back his point.

At least wait and see how this plays out before making stupid claims. Im sure they wouldn't be talking about how much they miss Rondo if they had lost 4 more in a row.

As for Rondo's rebounding etc., its disappointing because if he did all the correct things he would be the best pg and top 5 player in the game. But he doesn't so we are stuck with a top 5 pg top 15 player on a very reasonable salary. You just hope that he keeps maturing like a Pierce. My god people hated Pierce for a while
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: BballTim on February 06, 2013, 11:56:49 AM
There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: wdleehi on February 06, 2013, 11:59:11 AM
The stupid part to me of their convo yesterday was pointing to the last 4 games and saying the C's play harder and better without Rondo and conveniently leaving out the past 4 or so years where we have been extremely successful.

And then Tony remembering some specific game from like 4 years ago to somehow back his point.

At least wait and see how this plays out before making stupid claims. Im sure they wouldn't be talking about how much they miss Rondo if they had lost 4 more in a row.

As for Rondo's rebounding etc., its disappointing because if he did all the correct things he would be the best pg and top 5 player in the game. But he doesn't so we are stuck with a top 5 pg top 15 player on a very reasonable salary. You just hope that he keeps maturing like a Pierce. My god people hated Pierce for a while


I am not saying the team was on cruise control because of Rondo.  That's because the leaders are older vets who do not have the regular season drive anymore.


The loss of Rondo, who's play helped make up for some of the cruising, has forced these players to stop cruising. 
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Eddie20 on February 06, 2013, 12:01:00 PM
There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.

You know that it was Sean Grande who first brought this up, right? Grande has called every game Rondo has played in his professional career. This isn't Chris Broussard, Skip Bayless, or some other talking head spewing out nonsense.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: clover on February 06, 2013, 12:03:20 PM
The irony of course would be if KG's demand led the team to trade Pierce when they wouldn't have otherwise.  The assumption behind that has to be that Pierce would rather be traded than left on a losing team, and if that's already where he is...

But I believe reports have been that KG and Rondo were hanging closely together as of last season with another group of players--and Pierce wasn't in that group.  It's entirely possible for KG and Pierce to have a strong work relationship that doesn't extend to the personal.

But I believe Wyc is the guy who has put stops on other than lopsided deals for the Big Three over the past two years--and thus kept the C's from, for example, having Drummond on their roster right now.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: CelticsFan9 on February 06, 2013, 12:03:56 PM
There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.

Just to build off this, it annoys me how people say Rondo coasts through every non-National TV game.  That's just false.

Everyone can agree that Rondo takes his game to new heights when he plays on ESPN, TNT, ABC, etc.  what cannot be agreed on, though, is Rondo's effort on Comcast and such.  I've seen plenty of games where Rondo has great games (he had a trip-dub last year against the Bucks in a game that wasn't on National TV).  Sure, Rondo coasts in plenty of those games, but there are some where he does show effort.

And to those who wonder why Rondo can't play like he does on TV every game, the simple answer is that it would shorten his career. Heck, you could argue his play style could be the reason he blew out his knee. There are few players who hit the ground as much as Rondo, and that takes a toll on you.  Just look at Wade.  He's slowed down significantly.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: KGs Knee on February 06, 2013, 12:07:50 PM
Let me get one thing out of the way first; Michael Felger is the absolute worst radio personality out there.  The guy is a total jackass, who does nothing but spew sensationalist garbage.  I guess that is what "sells" these days though.  Sure, he's right about KG, and Wyc also, but I'm not giving him credit for things that are painfully obvious.

Now, about KG; KG is absolutely one of the most loyal atheletes out there.  It's just the way he's built.  KG almost assuredly asked for the no-trade clause because he just didn't want to deal with trade speculation.  KG doesn't have to say anythig at this point, he knows it doesn't matter what rumors are out there.  The no-trade clause means he gets to control the narrative.

As for what Wyc's ideas are on how to best go forward, post KG/PP, I thought what Jackie Mac said last night on Sports Tonight was interesting.  She basically said it's her impression Wyc is of the mindset, in regards to trading Rondo, "over my dead body".  Wyc has been attached to qoutes saying he would never allow Danny to trade Pierce either.

Wyc is a fan as much as he is a business man.  Now, maybe Wyc would ultimately step aside and let Danny do his job as he sees fit, but Wyc's opinion matters, for better or worse.  Things will have to get a lot worse before KG, Pierce, or Rondo ever get traded.  Although in Rondo's case, despite Wyc's supposed felelings about Rondo, I could see a deal being done if the Celtics were absolutely "blown away".
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 12:14:59 PM
There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.
Rondo has 28 career triple-doubles. 20 on national TV. Of these, 10 were in playoff games. Therefore, 55% of the non-playoff triple-doubles were in national TV games.

Also, you're not really trying to argue that players don't know which games are on national TV. Maybe not a week in advance, but certainly at tip-off -- and that should be sufficient to determine the type of effort.

As I said, make of this what you will -- there's an argument to be made that it's indicative of having an "extra gear" in big games (as national TV games typically are). There's also an argument of occasionally coasting and padding stats.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Eddie20 on February 06, 2013, 12:19:50 PM
There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.

Just to build off this, it annoys me how people say Rondo coasts through every non-National TV game.  That's just false.

Everyone can agree that Rondo takes his game to new heights when he plays on ESPN, TNT, ABC, etc.  what cannot be agreed on, though, is Rondo's effort on Comcast and such.  I've seen plenty of games where Rondo has great games (he had a trip-dub last year against the Bucks in a game that wasn't on National TV).  Sure, Rondo coasts in plenty of those games, but there are some where he does show effort.

And to those who wonder why Rondo can't play like he does on TV every game, the simple answer is that it would shorten his career. Heck, you could argue his play style could be the reason he blew out his knee. There are few players who hit the ground as much as Rondo, and that takes a toll on you.  Just look at Wade.  He's slowed down significantly.

Well, according to Sean Grande, 20 out of his 27 career triple doubles have come on National TV. The C's have been on National TV about 30% during the Big 3 era. So he's only had 7 during the other 70% of games. I'm not really a stat guy, but I make reference to show how his effort level rises significantly when he wants.

I have a real problem with him "pacing himself" at 26 years of age. If he were in his 30's then I could understand it. Perhaps it's because I hold him to a higher standard since I know what he's capable of. But if he's going to have that on/off switch and coast through a majority of games then he simply can't be the face of the franchise. Because if you're relying on him to bring it consistently, night in and night out, then you'll probably find yourself below 500% like we were.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: KGs Knee on February 06, 2013, 12:21:20 PM
How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: BballTim on February 06, 2013, 12:29:40 PM
There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.

You know that it was Sean Grande who first brought this up, right? Grande has called every game Rondo has played in his professional career. This isn't Chris Broussard, Skip Bayless, or some other talking head spewing out nonsense.

  The first time I heard it was in a nationally televised game against the Knicks, and it wasn't Sean Grande that said it. Even if it was Grande, that doesn't really change my post.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 12:33:06 PM
How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
Not sure, but I do agree with your sentiment about Felger. He's the local equivalent of Skip Bayless. I tend to ignore him.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: scaryjerry on February 06, 2013, 12:36:20 PM
How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?


Maybe because 90% of felger and mazz celtics opinion is rondo hate, and they have been getting giddy about.. it was mentioned in the same segment on their show.. so it was inevitable
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: KGs Knee on February 06, 2013, 12:36:33 PM
Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: clover on February 06, 2013, 12:38:11 PM
Let me get one thing out of the way first; Michael Felger is the absolute worst radio personality out there.  The guy is a total jackass, who does nothing but spew sensationalist garbage.  I guess that is what "sells" these days though.  Sure, he's right about KG, and Wyc also, but I'm not giving him credit for things that are painfully obvious.

Now, about KG; KG is absolutely one of the most loyal atheletes out there.  It's just the way he's built.  KG almost assuredly asked for the no-trade clause because he just didn't want to deal with trade speculation.  KG doesn't have to say anythig at this point, he knows it doesn't matter what rumors are out there.  The no-trade clause means he gets to control the narrative.

As for what Wyc's ideas are on how to best go forward, post KG/PP, I thought what Jackie Mac said last night on Sports Tonight was interesting.  She basically said it's her impression Wyc is of the mindset, in regards to trading Rondo, "over my dead body".  Wyc has been attached to qoutes saying he would never allow Danny to trade Pierce either.

Wyc is a fan as much as he is a business man.  Now, maybe Wyc would ultimately step aside and let Danny do his job as he sees fit, but Wyc's opinion matters, for better or worse.  Things will have to get a lot worse before KG, Pierce, or Rondo ever get traded.  Although in Rondo's case, despite Wyc's supposed felelings about Rondo, I could see a deal being done if the Celtics were absolutely "blown away".

For worse, IMO--though Wyc's a nice guy.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 12:43:22 PM
Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Fafnir on February 06, 2013, 12:45:38 PM
Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?
Over (Wyc's) dead body.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: KGs Knee on February 06, 2013, 12:46:07 PM
Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?

She said, word-for-word, it was her impression Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo were "over my dead body".  It just seemed so odd for what was kind of a throw away comment.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 12:48:07 PM
Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?
Over (Wyc's) dead body.
Interesting.

In terms of potential incoming value vs. value to the team, I think Rondo is the most tradeable player on the roster (this is to say, he has very high value to our team, but can also bring very high value in return).
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 06, 2013, 12:55:59 PM
Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?
Over (Wyc's) dead body.
Interesting.

In terms of potential incoming value vs. value to the team, I think Rondo is the most tradeable player on the roster (this is to say, he has very high value to our team, but can also bring very high value in return).

This!
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: jgod213 on February 06, 2013, 12:57:29 PM
How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
Not sure, but I do agree with your sentiment about Felger. He's the local equivalent of Skip Bayless. I tend to ignore him.

For the record, and since no one else has said it, I very much enjoy Michael Felger.  I think he's the best radio personality we've had in a long time - since I can remember really.

I'm honestly waiting for him to go national.  Love or hate the guy, he's very well informed (basketball not so much), forms legitimate opinions, and isn't afraid to stick with them and debate.

He's what a media personality should be in my book.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Rondo2287 on February 06, 2013, 12:59:43 PM
How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
Not sure, but I do agree with your sentiment about Felger. He's the local equivalent of Skip Bayless. I tend to ignore him.

For the record, and since no one else has said it, I very much enjoy Michael Felger.  I think he's the best radio personality we've had in a long time - since I can remember really.

I'm honestly waiting for him to go national.  Love or hate the guy, he's very well informed (basketball not so much), forms legitimate opinions, and isn't afraid to stick with them and debate.

He's what a media personality should be in my book.

He did call the pats being better after trading Moss.  I'll never forget that
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: jgod213 on February 06, 2013, 01:00:56 PM
How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
Not sure, but I do agree with your sentiment about Felger. He's the local equivalent of Skip Bayless. I tend to ignore him.

For the record, and since no one else has said it, I very much enjoy Michael Felger.  I think he's the best radio personality we've had in a long time - since I can remember really.

I'm honestly waiting for him to go national.  Love or hate the guy, he's very well informed (basketball not so much), forms legitimate opinions, and isn't afraid to stick with them and debate.

He's what a media personality should be in my book.

He did call the pats being better after trading Moss.  I'll never forget that

Haha yup, He's also stuck with the Tebow-as-a-legitimate-NFL-quarterback arguement for a while, so even when he's wrong at least he sticks to his guns haha.

He's also the lone Boston media personality (that I know of) that picked Baltimore to beat the Pats.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: KGs Knee on February 06, 2013, 01:03:46 PM
How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
Not sure, but I do agree with your sentiment about Felger. He's the local equivalent of Skip Bayless. I tend to ignore him.

For the record, and since no one else has said it, I very much enjoy Michael Felger.  I think he's the best radio personality we've had in a long time - since I can remember really.

I'm honestly waiting for him to go national.  Love or hate the guy, he's very well informed (basketball not so much), forms legitimate opinions, and isn't afraid to stick with them and debate.

He's what a media personality should be in my book.

Legitimate opinions?  Wow, I guess we have completely different ideas as to what constitues "legitimate".

I hate Felger, the guy is a hack.  And definitely has no clue about basketball.

Obviously you're not alone in your feelings on "what sports radio should be", based simply on ratings. I just personally disagree.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: wahz on February 06, 2013, 01:53:13 PM
I think right now, Danny has only two alternatives, and believe he's leaning toward #2.

1) by the 21st, blow the team sky high, and I've no clue as to what explosive used and where it would be placed(it's also my preference!)

2) he is going to yield to the clamoring of the fans(and probably ownership, too)to ride out this year, and very likely next year too(out of necessity), and then most probably watch KG and PP both retire.  It will leave the Celtics with no PP, no KG, no young potential building blocks acquired thru trading them, and no additional draft picks acquired thru trading them, and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's, and certainly won't when seeing a team with the potential to be one of the worst in the league!
Danny, at some point next season, will announce he's stepping down as GM and moving on! At season's end Doc will follow, and the next wasteland in Celtic history will begin!

Now, I love PP and KG, and I look forward to seeing their numbers hanging from the rafters one day, but #2 above is not a price I would be willing to pay for it!  Apparently, most fans here are!!

I'm willing to take my chances with #2, but I don't necessarily see the same outcome as you do.  We already have some potential building blocks.  The primary one, of course, is Rajon Rondo.  Bradley, Sully, and even Melo all have the potential to be good players.  Even Green, Lee, and Bass have the potential to either be pieces to the next generation or pieces to be used to build it.

It'll take a combination of smart signings, smart trades, and smart draft choices to stay in the hunt.  And, it will surely take a little luck, but I'm not buying the theory that inevitable doom and gloom will befall the Celtics if we don't trade Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett today.

Lets say we don't do any trades, now, and largely stay with what we have.
Not next year but the year after, we probably/possibly enter the season with Rondo(or replacement), Bradley, Sullinger, Green, Melo, Terry(or replacement), Barbosa(or replacement), Wilcox(or replacement), Bass (or replacement) 2013 rookie, 2014 rookie. Remember we will have mle's to use(right?) and some cap room. The only way we end up in the lottery in my mind is if nearly every free agent and draft pick is botched, and if no current guys get any better.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Chris on February 06, 2013, 02:10:46 PM
I think right now, Danny has only two alternatives, and believe he's leaning toward #2.

1) by the 21st, blow the team sky high, and I've no clue as to what explosive used and where it would be placed(it's also my preference!)

2) he is going to yield to the clamoring of the fans(and probably ownership, too)to ride out this year, and very likely next year too(out of necessity), and then most probably watch KG and PP both retire.  It will leave the Celtics with no PP, no KG, no young potential building blocks acquired thru trading them, and no additional draft picks acquired thru trading them, and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's, and certainly won't when seeing a team with the potential to be one of the worst in the league!
Danny, at some point next season, will announce he's stepping down as GM and moving on! At season's end Doc will follow, and the next wasteland in Celtic history will begin!

Now, I love PP and KG, and I look forward to seeing their numbers hanging from the rafters one day, but #2 above is not a price I would be willing to pay for it!  Apparently, most fans here are!!

I'm willing to take my chances with #2, but I don't necessarily see the same outcome as you do.  We already have some potential building blocks.  The primary one, of course, is Rajon Rondo.  Bradley, Sully, and even Melo all have the potential to be good players.  Even Green, Lee, and Bass have the potential to either be pieces to the next generation or pieces to be used to build it.

It'll take a combination of smart signings, smart trades, and smart draft choices to stay in the hunt.  And, it will surely take a little luck, but I'm not buying the theory that inevitable doom and gloom will befall the Celtics if we don't trade Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett today.

Lets say we don't do any trades, now, and largely stay with what we have.
Not next year but the year after, we probably/possibly enter the season with Rondo(or replacement), Bradley, Sullinger, Green, Melo, Terry(or replacement), Barbosa(or replacement), Wilcox(or replacement), Bass (or replacement) 2013 rookie, 2014 rookie. Remember we will have mle's to use(right?) and some cap room. The only way we end up in the lottery in my mind is if nearly every free agent and draft pick is botched, and if no current guys get any better.

Eh, if they don't add any other impact players or Sully and Bradley don't become stars, that is a very mediocre to bad team. 
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 02:24:05 PM
Eh, if they don't add any other impact players or Sully and Bradley don't become stars, that is a very mediocre to bad team.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect at this point that Bradley or Sullinger will become stars.

Bradley will probably have a career similar to Courtney Lee's. Sullinger may end up being Zach Randolph, but may also end up being Emeka Okafor.

I don't think we're holding on to the next Gary Payton or Karl Malone here.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Onslaught on February 06, 2013, 02:33:39 PM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.

Very good point

Yeah, that's how Cleveland landed Kyrie Irving.  (How monumentally stupid of the Clippers not to insist on #1 protection on that pick.)  OKC also obtained the draft pick they used on Serge Ibaka by taking on excess salary.

True to say, but why would you wait to get picks, and take on bad contracts, when apparently we're already being offered players like Bledsoe,DJordan,Barnes,Ezelie,KLeonard,TSplitter(though none of these absolutely confirmed), and or picks, with expiring contracts RIGHT NOW, when you have a team that most would concede has virtually no chance at winning a title---just so you can see KG and PP retire in green??
We could start rebuilding NOW, with young players with execellent potential to ADD to RR,AB,Sully, and maybe Melo and be off to a good start TODAY, not two or three years from now!

Because all those players you mentioned are good players but not difference makers

If we could be guaranteed players like those with mid to midlate first round picks, you'd pass?????????
In the draft from this year? Yes, I'd pass.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: CelticG1 on February 06, 2013, 02:40:41 PM
How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
Not sure, but I do agree with your sentiment about Felger. He's the local equivalent of Skip Bayless. I tend to ignore him.

For the record, and since no one else has said it, I very much enjoy Michael Felger.  I think he's the best radio personality we've had in a long time - since I can remember really.

I'm honestly waiting for him to go national.  Love or hate the guy, he's very well informed (basketball not so much), forms legitimate opinions, and isn't afraid to stick with them and debate.

He's what a media personality should be in my book.

He did call the pats being better after trading Moss.  I'll never forget that

Haha yup, He's also stuck with the Tebow-as-a-legitimate-NFL-quarterback arguement for a while, so even when he's wrong at least he sticks to his guns haha.

He's also the lone Boston media personality (that I know of) that picked Baltimore to beat the Pats.

He always covers his butt though.

If Tebow starts for 10 or more games in the next few years he will go above 500 (who knows if he gets that chance)

If the Pats made it to AFC championship after trading Moss for Branch its a success otherwise a failure (even tho he admitted it wasn't a success since they didn't make it that year but still patted himself on the butt)

Even with the Baltimore pick this year I don't even.think he ever flat out said Baltimore will beat the Pats but kept tip toeing around saying they always play is well etc.

I enjoy him to and even tho he hates basketball he always gives credit to KG and Pierce for being winners. But if you listen to his predictions there are always these stupid stipulations to cover his butt.  Id like to see him make a prediction about the C's going further without Rondo or at least winning a round since they are apparently better without him
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: timobusa on February 06, 2013, 03:18:31 PM
I don't believe in rebuilding. Maybe that's just me.
But look at the Spurs, they've been contenders for the last 10 years, with aging stars, they're still ahead of the western conference. It's not about rebuilding, its using what you got, and using it to its full potential.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: kozlodoev on February 06, 2013, 03:29:22 PM
I don't believe in rebuilding. Maybe that's just me.
But look at the Spurs, they've been contenders for the last 10 years, with aging stars, they're still ahead of the western conference. It's not about rebuilding, its using what you got, and using it to its full potential.
Well, not every team has the luxury of having both Tim Duncan and David Robinson.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: timobusa on February 06, 2013, 03:38:58 PM
I don't believe in rebuilding. Maybe that's just me.
But look at the Spurs, they've been contenders for the last 10 years, with aging stars, they're still ahead of the western conference. It's not about rebuilding, its using what you got, and using it to its full potential.
Well, not every team has the luxury of having both Tim Duncan and David Robinson.

They were still contending after Robinson, and After PRIME Tim Duncan, heck, they're on top of the ladder right now, with a STACKED western conference.

Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: LooseCannon on February 06, 2013, 03:39:38 PM
I don't believe in rebuilding. Maybe that's just me.
But look at the Spurs, they've been contenders for the last 10 years, with aging stars, they're still ahead of the western conference. It's not about rebuilding, its using what you got, and using it to its full potential.

I endorse the Spurs plan of a one-year rebuild by sucking due to everyone being injured and adding a #1 overall pick to a team with playoff-caliber talent.  The Chicago Bulls did this in 2007-2008, though they have yet to win a title.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: erisred on February 06, 2013, 04:03:34 PM
that is a good point - I don't think the owners want to do the lottery route again - they've tasted success and gotten accustomed to it
Frankly, I think *most* fans feel the same way. A few are excited about the idea of tanking for picks, but most of us have seen that and don't want any part of it if it can be avoided.

Realistically, I think the C's are going end up having to have one or two down years, though. Unless Danny can make a truly *magical* deal, or somehow lure a superstar free agent to Boston it'll have to be the old "asset acquisition, development, turn in a trade" routine again. Last time Pierce was the core piece Allen and KG could come join, is it Rondo this time? Is he going to be enough of a lure?

Or is Rondo going to be the Antoine Walker in this scenario? He was the player who has too tight a hold on the team and needed to go so it could move forward...in DA's opinion anyway. If so, then *who* is the proto-Pierce? Is he even on the team yet?
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: erisred on February 06, 2013, 04:25:53 PM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.
Right! Rather than another 20 years wandering in the wilderness, I think the C's are about where they were in 2001/2002 or 2002/2003 again. Good enough to make the playoffs and *maybe* the Conference Finals and with huge luck the Finals, but trending down toward mediocre.

This year and even next year the C's can be good enough, with minor tweeks, to be competitive, good enough to have a *very* long shot at the championship. Yes, it's a shot, but a very, very, long shot. Danny, and the current ownership, came in at this point and I expect they know what needs to happen next. Twain has got to be traded. Eric Williams and Tony Battie have to go. It's going to make fans angry, it's going to hurt, but it's got to be done. Assets must be acquired, developed, and traded for upgrades, developed and traded again for upgrades and for five years the C's will bounce around the 8th seed, maybe more lottery than playoffs, but eventually, the assets will be the core, or be turned into the core and we get 2008 again.

I'm optimistic for 2018. And that's if everything goes well, almost every move pans out, and that's without having a 24 year old Paul Pierce already on the squad.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: erisred on February 06, 2013, 04:39:40 PM
and a boatload of cap space that will be almost useless in place that has NEVER attracted top FA's

Cap space can be useful in other ways, such as accepting toxic contracts in trades for the price of a likely lottery pick.  You're more likely to get a good draft pick with a chance to get a star that way than by trading Pierce and Garnett.

Very good point

Yeah, that's how Cleveland landed Kyrie Irving.  (How monumentally stupid of the Clippers not to insist on #1 protection on that pick.)  OKC also obtained the draft pick they used on Serge Ibaka by taking on excess salary.

True to say, but why would you wait to get picks, and take on bad contracts, when apparently we're already being offered players like Bledsoe,DJordan,Barnes,Ezelie,KLeonard,TSplitter(though none of these absolutely confirmed), and or picks, with expiring contracts RIGHT NOW, when you have a team that most would concede has virtually no chance at winning a title---just so you can see KG and PP retire in green??
We could start rebuilding NOW, with young players with execellent potential to ADD to RR,AB,Sully, and maybe Melo and be off to a good start TODAY, not two or three years from now!

Because all those players you mentioned are good players but not difference makers
Right! Optimally, the C's want to have the next young Paul Pierce on their team when the real rebuild starts. Is there a 24 year old Paul Pierce in your list? Nope!

None of the guys you list come close to being as good as Pierce was at 24, or at 21...or even now when he's 35. Rondo isn't even close either.

Remember, he who gets the best player wins the deal. Even at 35 Pierce is still a better player than anybody I've seen mentioned, and so is KG at 36.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: mmmmm on February 06, 2013, 04:41:34 PM


I think I'm starting to get the pattern with Rondo.  Every time he makes a great pass, he's simply trying to pad his assist stats.  Every time he beats everybody else on the floor for a loose ball, he's simply trying to pad his rebound stats.  Every time he makes a good read and steps in the passing lane to pick off a pass, he's simply trying to pad his steals stats.  The only time he's not being an egotistical player is when he shoots the ball.

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous.

Tommy Point.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: bfrombleacher on February 06, 2013, 04:58:56 PM



I think I'm starting to get the pattern with Rondo.  Every time he makes a great pass, he's simply trying to pad his assist stats.  Every time he beats everybody else on the floor for a loose ball, he's simply trying to pad his rebound stats.  Every time he makes a good read and steps in the passing lane to pick off a pass, he's simply trying to pad his steals stats.  The only time he's not being an egotistical player is when he shoots the ball.

Honestly, this is getting ridiculous.

That's when he's trying to pad his scoring.

Yes. He's doing that now.

We have on our hands an egotistical monster who only cares about stats and will try so hard to get the next rebound, steal, assist, point or win.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: action781 on February 08, 2013, 11:24:52 AM
"The Owners hate the look of that building when the team is headed for the lottery and nobody cares"

I can't agree with that assessment. Casueway street fans are pretty consistent in their passion.  The Celts and Bruins have experienced very recent years of turmoil and a strong fan base has always been there. 

I think that's one of the reassuring points for management regarding the Celtics' current situation.  Wyc knows that, if he chooses to, he can ride out the Peirce/KG years & fall back into rebuild mode while still maintaining a high level of support from the fans.

But as Jeff said, i think that taste of success is going to make swallowing that pill pretty difficult.

2000-02 I only attended a few games and they were playoff games and the garden was hopping.  I was also like 18 years old so maybe I was just that amped up.

2005-07 the Garden was very weak.  I attended a couple games a year and there were always empty seats.  It was one of those places where you went to the game to see the opponent's star players [Lebron] almost as much as you went to see the celtics.  I would sit in complete frustration as CP3 completely locked down whoever we threw in there at pg and it seemed that nobody around me cared at all.

2008+ the Garden has been hopping again to unbelievable levels.

In terms of attendance:

2003:  17,293 per game
2004:  16,201 per game
2005:  16,001 per game
2006:  16,899 per game
2007:  16,843 per game
2008:  18,624 per game 

The Celtics have been at full capacity every year since except for 2010, when they still averaged over 18,000 fans per game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

So if you notice the range of years I mentioned, there is a difference of 2000 fans per game.  That's pretty significant.  But my point was actually more in regards to the atmosphere than # of butts in the seats.  During 2005-07, when I went to a couple games per year, the atmosphere was DEAD in the garden compared to now.  We'd get owned and people wouldn't even notice, nevermind care.  Now, we do have plenty of people who just go to go, but at least you still hear many grumbles from behind you if we aren't playing well.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: LB3533 on February 08, 2013, 11:28:31 AM
Some of you guys got Rondo all wrong.

Rondo is not a stat padder, he is a guy who loves to give his teammates the ball.

That is it.

Rondo loves to pass.

He loves it to a fault. Rondo's unselfishness is akin to KG.

Sometime Rondo has to score even if he don't like it.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 08, 2013, 11:30:39 AM
Some of you guys got Rondo all wrong.

Rondo is not a stat padder, he is a guy who loves to give his teammates the ball.

That is it.

Rondo loves to pass.

He loves it to a fault. Rondo's unselfishness is akin to KG.

Sometime Rondo has to score even if he don't like it.

KG does have 25000 points... and he scores when necessary...
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: the_Bird on February 08, 2013, 11:39:18 AM
Some of you guys got Rondo all wrong.

Rondo is not a stat padder, he is a guy who loves to give his teammates the ball.

That is it.

Rondo loves to pass.

He loves it to a fault. Rondo's unselfishness is akin to KG.

Sometime Rondo has to score even if he don't like it.

The offense is better when the ball's more free-flowing, though.  Rondo can be the facilitator, but he doesn't always need to be the guy who makes the pass that directly leads to the basket.  At times, it's almost like he morphs into the uber-Stephan Marbury, pounding the ball like crazy and there's really only one pass in the whole possession.  The team's offense would have looked better if Rondo was getting more "hockey assists."
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: BballTim on February 08, 2013, 11:42:49 AM
Some of you guys got Rondo all wrong.

Rondo is not a stat padder, he is a guy who loves to give his teammates the ball.

That is it.

Rondo loves to pass.

He loves it to a fault. Rondo's unselfishness is akin to KG.

Sometime Rondo has to score even if he don't like it.

The offense is better when the ball's more free-flowing, though.  Rondo can be the facilitator, but he doesn't always need to be the guy who makes the pass that directly leads to the basket.  At times, it's almost like he morphs into the uber-Stephan Marbury, pounding the ball like crazy and there's really only one pass in the whole possession.  The team's offense would have looked better if Rondo was getting more "hockey assists."

  Rondo gets plenty of "hockey assists". I've seen tons of plays where we get a mismatch on offense (frequently created by Rondo) where he'll swing the ball around to someone who has a better angle to make the entry pass.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: the_Bird on February 08, 2013, 11:43:39 AM
So if you notice the range of years I mentioned, there is a difference of 2000 fans per game.  That's pretty significant.  But my point was actually more in regards to the atmosphere than # of butts in the seats.  During 2005-07, when I went to a couple games per year, the atmosphere was DEAD in the garden compared to now.  We'd get owned and people wouldn't even notice, nevermind care.  Now, we do have plenty of people who just go to go, but at least you still hear many grumbles from behind you if we aren't playing well.

I'll never forget Kobe Bryant getting the "MVP! MVP! MVP!" chant in 2007. 

Buddy of mine was telling me how when he used to work in Boston, the company he was with couldn't even GIVE away their tickets to people.  This was back at the end of the Gaston era, I believe.  "Hey kid, you want some free Celtics tickets?"...   "Uh, no thanks.  I need to do some laundry tonight." 

Especially given the competition with the Sox, the Pats, and with the Bruins being so good now, I don't blame nmanagement for trying to stay relevant in people's minds.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: the_Bird on February 08, 2013, 11:45:20 AM
Some of you guys got Rondo all wrong.

Rondo is not a stat padder, he is a guy who loves to give his teammates the ball.

That is it.

Rondo loves to pass.

He loves it to a fault. Rondo's unselfishness is akin to KG.

Sometime Rondo has to score even if he don't like it.

The offense is better when the ball's more free-flowing, though.  Rondo can be the facilitator, but he doesn't always need to be the guy who makes the pass that directly leads to the basket.  At times, it's almost like he morphs into the uber-Stephan Marbury, pounding the ball like crazy and there's really only one pass in the whole possession.  The team's offense would have looked better if Rondo was getting more "hockey assists."

  Rondo gets plenty of "hockey assists". I've seen tons of plays where we get a mismatch on offense (frequently created by Rondo) where he'll swing the ball around to someone who has a better angle to make the entry pass.

I don't have any stats to back this up, but it seems like there was a lot less of this this season.  "Eye test" is telling me that there's less ball movement. 
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: Fafnir on February 08, 2013, 11:46:38 AM
Some of you guys got Rondo all wrong.

Rondo is not a stat padder, he is a guy who loves to give his teammates the ball.

That is it.

Rondo loves to pass.

He loves it to a fault. Rondo's unselfishness is akin to KG.

Sometime Rondo has to score even if he don't like it.

The offense is better when the ball's more free-flowing, though.  Rondo can be the facilitator, but he doesn't always need to be the guy who makes the pass that directly leads to the basket.  At times, it's almost like he morphs into the uber-Stephan Marbury, pounding the ball like crazy and there's really only one pass in the whole possession.  The team's offense would have looked better if Rondo was getting more "hockey assists."

  Rondo gets plenty of "hockey assists". I've seen tons of plays where we get a mismatch on offense (frequently created by Rondo) where he'll swing the ball around to someone who has a better angle to make the entry pass.

I don't have any stats to back this up, but it seems like there was a lot less of this this season.  "Eye test" is telling me that there's less ball movement.
He's been dribbling and ballhandling more, as the C's have cut back on how much Pierce handled.
Title: Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
Post by: BballTim on February 08, 2013, 12:15:48 PM
Some of you guys got Rondo all wrong.

Rondo is not a stat padder, he is a guy who loves to give his teammates the ball.

That is it.

Rondo loves to pass.

He loves it to a fault. Rondo's unselfishness is akin to KG.

Sometime Rondo has to score even if he don't like it.

The offense is better when the ball's more free-flowing, though.  Rondo can be the facilitator, but he doesn't always need to be the guy who makes the pass that directly leads to the basket.  At times, it's almost like he morphs into the uber-Stephan Marbury, pounding the ball like crazy and there's really only one pass in the whole possession.  The team's offense would have looked better if Rondo was getting more "hockey assists."

  Rondo gets plenty of "hockey assists". I've seen tons of plays where we get a mismatch on offense (frequently created by Rondo) where he'll swing the ball around to someone who has a better angle to make the entry pass.

I don't have any stats to back this up, but it seems like there was a lot less of this this season.  "Eye test" is telling me that there's less ball movement.
He's been dribbling and ballhandling more, as the C's have cut back on how much Pierce handled.

  I think they've also cut back on the number of plays with PP that start inside the foul line for a mismatch. Paul used to go down low a lot of the time when he had a pg on him, now he seems to prefer to start his move from the three point line.