Celtics Blog Forums

Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Rtpas11 on February 04, 2013, 09:29:21 PM

Title: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: Rtpas11 on February 04, 2013, 09:29:21 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ayxcfwd

Bos Gets: Gortat
PHX Gets: Melo / Bass
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 04, 2013, 09:31:17 PM
If we still keep future HOFs Pierce, KG and Collins. Then its a deal!
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: esel1000 on February 04, 2013, 09:32:37 PM
I don't know I just don't see PHX trading Gortat for an unproven nba rookie center and Bass on a bad year...
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: hpantazo on February 04, 2013, 09:32:48 PM
Simple, yes. Realistic, no.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on February 04, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
If we still keep future HOFs Pierce, KG and Collins. Then its a deal!

I see what you did there.. But Yes I would love to get Gortat here. Would be a great plyer next to KG
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: pearljammer10 on February 04, 2013, 10:07:09 PM
Why does Phoenix do this again?
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: csfansince60s on February 04, 2013, 10:23:07 PM
Great for us. Bad for them.

Expirings, picks and/or rookie deals is what they want.

Maybe turn Bass into an expiring, plus Melo plus a 1st or two seconds might do it.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: Geo123 on February 04, 2013, 10:50:06 PM
Simple, yes. Realistic, no.

+1
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: Lucky17 on February 04, 2013, 10:52:24 PM
Simple, yes. Realistic, no.

Co-sign.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: saltlover on February 04, 2013, 11:09:02 PM
I don't think it's completely implausible.  Phoenix wants to trade Gortat.  He's got a decent contract, but this means they are limited in the amount of salary they can take back (also, the Phoenix owner is a cheapskate.)  Melo's D-league play has not hurt his stock, and Bass's contract isn't atrocious.  I think they'd prefer Bradley, but if Bradley were available Gortat would already be a Celtic.

We'd probably have to add some sort of draft compensation unless Bass remembers how to play basketball in the next two weeks, but I don't think such a deal is implausible.  Unlikely, yes, because all deals posted on Celticsblog are unlikely, but I've seen (and probably proposed) worse.

That said, I don't do this deal, because I'm I'm favor of blowing it all up, and trading for Gortat doesn't fit that plan too well.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: More Banners on February 04, 2013, 11:19:41 PM
I don't think it's completely implausible.  Phoenix wants to trade Gortat.  He's got a decent contract, but this means they are limited in the amount of salary they can take back (also, the Phoenix owner is a cheapskate.)  Melo's D-league play has not hurt his stock, and Bass's contract isn't atrocious.  I think they'd prefer Bradley, but if Bradley were available Gortat would already be a Celtic.

We'd probably have to add some sort of draft compensation unless Bass remembers how to play basketball in the next two weeks, but I don't think such a deal is implausible.  Unlikely, yes, because all deals posted on Celticsblog are unlikely, but I've seen (and probably proposed) worse.

That said, I don't do this deal, because I'm I'm favor of blowing it all up, and trading for Gortat doesn't fit that plan too well.

Would you still want to blow it up if we could get Gortat on our team?

PHX needs someone to bill as a star.  We have Rondo on a shelf for the season, maybe part of next (while PHX tanks anyway).  Rondo for Gortat makes sense for both sides, with possible sweetener (high 2nd/protected 1st rounder).

I don't think our team plus Gortat (or Okafor) should be blown up; they'd have a puncher's chance in the playoffs.  Nobody would want to face us for 7 games.

So acquiring that, rather than blowing up, should be the goal right now, IMO.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: saltlover on February 04, 2013, 11:30:59 PM
I don't think it's completely implausible.  Phoenix wants to trade Gortat.  He's got a decent contract, but this means they are limited in the amount of salary they can take back (also, the Phoenix owner is a cheapskate.)  Melo's D-league play has not hurt his stock, and Bass's contract isn't atrocious.  I think they'd prefer Bradley, but if Bradley were available Gortat would already be a Celtic.

We'd probably have to add some sort of draft compensation unless Bass remembers how to play basketball in the next two weeks, but I don't think such a deal is implausible.  Unlikely, yes, because all deals posted on Celticsblog are unlikely, but I've seen (and probably proposed) worse.

That said, I don't do this deal, because I'm I'm favor of blowing it all up, and trading for Gortat doesn't fit that plan too well.

Would you still want to blow it up if we could get Gortat on our team?

PHX needs someone to bill as a star.  We have Rondo on a shelf for the season, maybe part of next (while PHX tanks anyway).  Rondo for Gortat makes sense for both sides, with possible sweetener (high 2nd/protected 1st rounder).

I don't think our team plus Gortat (or Okafor) should be blown up; they'd have a puncher's chance in the playoffs.  Nobody would want to face us for 7 games.

So acquiring that, rather than blowing up, should be the goal right now, IMO.

We're not a championship contender this year without Rondo.  And I don't think we were with him, either.  If we'd gotten Gortat and Rondo hadn't gotten hurt, maybe.  We might be a scary team to
face in the first round, and be able to make it a tough series.  Maybe even get to the second round somehow.  But we're simply not consistent enough to win 4 consecutive, or even 3 consecutive, 7-game series in a row.  Take yesterday.  Sure, we won, but not before letting the clippers, without Chris Paul, completely back into the game after having a big lead.  It was no different than a lot of our recent losses, except this time Pierce made a last-second shot instead of fumbling the ball out of bounds.

So while I like Gortat a lot, and think we should kick the tires in the offseason if we are not successful at blowing up the roster this year, and if Rondo is healing well, I don't think we should get him now.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: Quinn on February 04, 2013, 11:36:01 PM
Even if we're not I think it's fairly obvious that Paul and kg want to at least TRY one more time. Might as well give then them the best supporting cast we can to make them feel like we have a chance. At the very least it'll be entertaining, yes? Still no way in heck Phoenix says yes to this.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: slamtheking on February 05, 2013, 08:29:48 AM
I don't think it's completely implausible.  Phoenix wants to trade Gortat.  He's got a decent contract, but this means they are limited in the amount of salary they can take back (also, the Phoenix owner is a cheapskate.)  Melo's D-league play has not hurt his stock, and Bass's contract isn't atrocious.  I think they'd prefer Bradley, but if Bradley were available Gortat would already be a Celtic.

We'd probably have to add some sort of draft compensation unless Bass remembers how to play basketball in the next two weeks, but I don't think such a deal is implausible.  Unlikely, yes, because all deals posted on Celticsblog are unlikely, but I've seen (and probably proposed) worse.

That said, I don't do this deal, because I'm I'm favor of blowing it all up, and trading for Gortat doesn't fit that plan too well.

Would you still want to blow it up if we could get Gortat on our team?

PHX needs someone to bill as a star.  We have Rondo on a shelf for the season, maybe part of next (while PHX tanks anyway).  Rondo for Gortat makes sense for both sides, with possible sweetener (high 2nd/protected 1st rounder).
I don't think our team plus Gortat (or Okafor) should be blown up; they'd have a puncher's chance in the playoffs.  Nobody would want to face us for 7 games.

So acquiring that, rather than blowing up, should be the goal right now, IMO.
Actually, that makes absolutely no sense for the Celtics.  Give up your best player and one of the top PGs in the league for an ok center?  Horrible deal.  We're not winning it all this year without Rondo and adding Gortat doesn't improve those odds much. 

Danny's sensible options at this point are to either make moves that will strengthen the team for next year with Rondo and Sully back OR blow it up completely.  We still have KG and PP next year (sure a year older) but we still have the same roster basically that now seems to understand how to play well together (as of this moment at least--they could go on another losing streak at a moment's notice).  add a better backup big man than Collins with the lower-MLE and/or the BAE and another spare part or two for depth insurance and take another run at it.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: scaryjerry on February 05, 2013, 08:34:02 AM
I don't think it's completely implausible.  Phoenix wants to trade Gortat.  He's got a decent contract, but this means they are limited in the amount of salary they can take back (also, the Phoenix owner is a cheapskate.)  Melo's D-league play has not hurt his stock, and Bass's contract isn't atrocious.  I think they'd prefer Bradley, but if Bradley were available Gortat would already be a Celtic.

We'd probably have to add some sort of draft compensation unless Bass remembers how to play basketball in the next two weeks, but I don't think such a deal is implausible.  Unlikely, yes, because all deals posted on Celticsblog are unlikely, but I've seen (and probably proposed) worse.

That said, I don't do this deal, because I'm I'm favor of blowing it all up, and trading for Gortat doesn't fit that plan too well.

Would you still want to blow it up if we could get Gortat on our team?

PHX needs someone to bill as a star.  We have Rondo on a shelf for the season, maybe part of next (while PHX tanks anyway).  Rondo for Gortat makes sense for both sides, with possible sweetener (high 2nd/protected 1st rounder).

I don't think our team plus Gortat (or Okafor) should be blown up; they'd have a puncher's chance in the playoffs.  Nobody would want to face us for 7 games.

So acquiring that, rather than blowing up, should be the goal right now, IMO.


Kareem Abdul.....Gortat?

Aren't a contender with gortat....absurd theory trading our best player for a borderline scrub
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 05, 2013, 09:36:06 AM
Either you are overselling Bass and Melo or underselling Gortat. This is not a fair deal for Phoenix. I like it for us, but this isn't going to work in real kife.

You got the simple part though.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: danglertx on February 05, 2013, 10:51:01 AM
Either you are overselling Bass and Melo or underselling Gortat. This is not a fair deal for Phoenix. I like it for us, but this isn't going to work in real kife.

You got the simple part though.

Just because I wonder, what do you think Gortat is worth?  He isn't anything special and apparently Phoenix hasn't been thrilled with him according to reports?  Melo has the chance to become a very good defensive center for a lot of years and is cheap. 

Like everyone says on this board about us, Phoenix isn't winning a championship with Gortat.  In fact they aren't making the playoffs with Gortat.  They don't even have a puncher's chance. 

You think someone is giving them a pick that is going to be a lottery pick? 

I don't see Gortat's value anywhere near what most people on this board seem to think it is.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 05, 2013, 11:18:46 AM
Either you are overselling Bass and Melo or underselling Gortat. This is not a fair deal for Phoenix. I like it for us, but this isn't going to work in real kife.

You got the simple part though.

Just because I wonder, what do you think Gortat is worth?  He isn't anything special and apparently Phoenix hasn't been thrilled with him according to reports?  Melo has the chance to become a very good defensive center for a lot of years and is cheap. 

Like everyone says on this board about us, Phoenix isn't winning a championship with Gortat. In fact they aren't making the playoffs with Gortat.  They don't even have a puncher's chance. 

You think someone is giving them a pick that is going to be a lottery pick? 

I don't see Gortat's value anywhere near what most people on this board seem to think it is.

They could get more for Gortat than Bass who's a PF, something that they don't need, add the fact he's not playing well and also tied up for 3 years. And don't get me wrong, I like and believe that Melo would improve but as of right now, he cannot contribute anything to that franchise.

Gortat is an 11 pts, 9 rebs, 2 blocks a game (i rounded it out). Teams can offer more than Bass and Melo for that kind of production. Sure Gortat wont win a championship with PHX, but he can help one team win one. Marcin can start for any team, they won't trade him for an under performing PF and an unknown rookie, even though potentially he can be good. Other teams can offer a much better package.

Heck, just to throw it in to tell you what value Gortat has, if I'm OKC, I'd offer Perkins and a 1st rounder (Raptors meaning top 15) for him and a 2nd. He's not a better post defender than Perk, but he's better at everything else, it'll improve OKC's championship caliber, and not a bad return for Phoenix. It's not a sure fire yes, but that's better than a Bass and Melo package already.

Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: arctic 3.0 on February 05, 2013, 12:11:56 PM
Best trade I've seen yet was proposed by another poster(sorry can't recall who)
Phx gets rondo, mello
Bo's gets drajic, gortat.
Drajic is rondo lite right now, could end up on par with rr.
Gortat is a young vet center who has shown he can play.
The trade addresses issues this year and down the road.
Drajic gives us a good distributor and jump shooter who averages more than a steal a game. ( I can't speak about other aspects of his D.)
Gortat gives us a rebounder, good passer and interior presence.
Also this trade allows us to shop bass and terry/ lee with our decimating our depth.
I'm in!
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: kozlodoev on February 05, 2013, 12:31:13 PM
Best trade I've seen yet was proposed by another poster(sorry can't recall who)
Phx gets rondo, mello
Bo's gets drajic, gortat.
Drajic is rondo lite right now, could end up on par with rr.
Gortat is a young vet center who has shown he can play.
The trade addresses issues this year and down the road.
Drajic gives us a good distributor and jump shooter who averages more than a steal a game. ( I can't speak about other aspects of his D.)
Gortat gives us a rebounder, good passer and interior presence.
Also this trade allows us to shop bass and terry/ lee with our decimating our depth.
I'm in!
His name is "Dragic". It's pronounced like it's written, too.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: arctic 3.0 on February 05, 2013, 12:35:36 PM
Best trade I've seen yet was proposed by another poster(sorry can't recall who)
Phx gets rondo, mello
Bo's gets drajic, gortat.
Drajic is rondo lite right now, could end up on par with rr.
Gortat is a young vet center who has shown he can play.
The trade addresses issues this year and down the road.
Drajic gives us a good distributor and jump shooter who averages more than a steal a game. ( I can't speak about other aspects of his D.)
Gortat gives us a rebounder, good passer and interior presence.
Also this trade allows us to shop bass and terry/ lee with our decimating our depth.
I'm in!
His name is "Dragic". It's pronounced like it's written, too.

Thanks, any insight into his game or just his name?
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: danglertx on February 05, 2013, 01:34:50 PM
Either you are overselling Bass and Melo or underselling Gortat. This is not a fair deal for Phoenix. I like it for us, but this isn't going to work in real kife.

You got the simple part though.

Just because I wonder, what do you think Gortat is worth?  He isn't anything special and apparently Phoenix hasn't been thrilled with him according to reports?  Melo has the chance to become a very good defensive center for a lot of years and is cheap. 

Like everyone says on this board about us, Phoenix isn't winning a championship with Gortat. In fact they aren't making the playoffs with Gortat.  They don't even have a puncher's chance. 

You think someone is giving them a pick that is going to be a lottery pick? 

I don't see Gortat's value anywhere near what most people on this board seem to think it is.

They could get more for Gortat than Bass who's a PF, something that they don't need, add the fact he's not playing well and also tied up for 3 years. And don't get me wrong, I like and believe that Melo would improve but as of right now, he cannot contribute anything to that franchise.

Gortat is an 11 pts, 9 rebs, 2 blocks a game (i rounded it out). Teams can offer more than Bass and Melo for that kind of production. Sure Gortat wont win a championship with PHX, but he can help one team win one. Marcin can start for any team, they won't trade him for an under performing PF and an unknown rookie, even though potentially he can be good. Other teams can offer a much better package.

Heck, just to throw it in to tell you what value Gortat has, if I'm OKC, I'd offer Perkins and a 1st rounder (Raptors meaning top 15) for him and a 2nd. He's not a better post defender than Perk, but he's better at everything else, it'll improve OKC's championship caliber, and not a bad return for Phoenix. It's not a sure fire yes, but that's better than a Bass and Melo package already.

Ok, I have something to go on now with Perkins and a 1st.  This is what you think is a better deal than Bass and Melo.  Maybe it is for the right team, maybe it isn't.  But Perkins doesn't fit the Phoenix style at all and a first round pick from Phoenix is going to be a very late round pick.  Are the Suns going to draft someone who is going to help them earlier than the potential of Fab Melo?  Say they pick 30th, you think they are pulling a C out of the draft that is coming in and playing big minutes for them next year?  In this draft, one of the worst in years according to reports I've heard?

Btw, Perkins costs an extra 1.7mil than Bass and has the same three year contract.  If they wanted a lumbering C I think they'd just be happy with Gortat who is an overall better C than Perkins.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on February 05, 2013, 02:31:33 PM
Either you are overselling Bass and Melo or underselling Gortat. This is not a fair deal for Phoenix. I like it for us, but this isn't going to work in real kife.

You got the simple part though.

Just because I wonder, what do you think Gortat is worth?  He isn't anything special and apparently Phoenix hasn't been thrilled with him according to reports?  Melo has the chance to become a very good defensive center for a lot of years and is cheap. 

Like everyone says on this board about us, Phoenix isn't winning a championship with Gortat. In fact they aren't making the playoffs with Gortat.  They don't even have a puncher's chance. 

You think someone is giving them a pick that is going to be a lottery pick? 

I don't see Gortat's value anywhere near what most people on this board seem to think it is.

They could get more for Gortat than Bass who's a PF, something that they don't need, add the fact he's not playing well and also tied up for 3 years. And don't get me wrong, I like and believe that Melo would improve but as of right now, he cannot contribute anything to that franchise.

Gortat is an 11 pts, 9 rebs, 2 blocks a game (i rounded it out). Teams can offer more than Bass and Melo for that kind of production. Sure Gortat wont win a championship with PHX, but he can help one team win one. Marcin can start for any team, they won't trade him for an under performing PF and an unknown rookie, even though potentially he can be good. Other teams can offer a much better package.

Heck, just to throw it in to tell you what value Gortat has, if I'm OKC, I'd offer Perkins and a 1st rounder (Raptors meaning top 15) for him and a 2nd. He's not a better post defender than Perk, but he's better at everything else, it'll improve OKC's championship caliber, and not a bad return for Phoenix. It's not a sure fire yes, but that's better than a Bass and Melo package already.

Ok, I have something to go on now with Perkins and a 1st.  This is what you think is a better deal than Bass and Melo.  Maybe it is for the right team, maybe it isn't.  But Perkins doesn't fit the Phoenix style at all and a first round pick from Phoenix is going to be a very late round pick.  Are the Suns going to draft someone who is going to help them earlier than the potential of Fab Melo?  Say they pick 30th, you think they are pulling a C out of the draft that is coming in and playing big minutes for them next year?  In this draft, one of the worst in years according to reports I've heard?

Btw, Perkins costs an extra 1.7mil than Bass and has the same three year contract.  If they wanted a lumbering C I think they'd just be happy with Gortat who is an overall better C than Perkins.

The first rounder would come from the Raptors that they acquired from Houston from the Harden deal. And Perkins doesnt fit in a run and gun system? Isn't that what they do a lot in OKC already? He's not an offensive threat unlike Gortat, which is why OKC should compensate by giving the Raps first.

I understand that he costs more than Bass as well, but they have a plethora of power forwards (Scola, Frye, Morris, count Beasley in here too) so they wont need Bass. They won't know what to get from Melo. Perkins and a top 15 1st is a solid return for Gortat and a 2nd.
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: danglertx on February 05, 2013, 02:52:50 PM
Well if OKC is willing to give up a top 7 or 8 pick (which is where the standings would have that pick I'm not sure about all the protections that might be on it or even if it exists, I haven't looked it up) for Gortat, then they win him, hands down. 

I would say this though.  THERE IS NO WAY THEY WOULD GIVE UP A TOP 15 PICK FOR GORTAT! 

I assume you are a Celtics fan so let me ask you this.  If the Celtics had a possible lottery pick, would you give it up for Gortat?

Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: Q_FBE on February 05, 2013, 02:55:30 PM
I would think Phoenix would love to unload Micheal Beasley with Gortat. Beasley is having a horrible season while backing up Jared Dudley. Talent wise, it should probably be the other way around. When going over the trade-checker, I found it surprising difficult to come up with a fair and equitable trade for both sides. I came up with Gortat, Channing Frye, and Micheal Beasley (incoming 19 million), for Rondo, Bass, Jason Terry, and Fab Melo (outgoing 23 million).... I assume Boston is trying to avoid the luxery tax bogey so they would try to trade with a team for cap space. If Micheal Beasley weren't such a yo-yo, this would be a decent consideration. 
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: CelticConcourse on February 05, 2013, 03:46:40 PM
Well if OKC is willing to give up a top 7 or 8 pick (which is where the standings would have that pick I'm not sure about all the protections that might be on it or even if it exists, I haven't looked it up) for Gortat, then they win him, hands down. 

I would say this though.  THERE IS NO WAY THEY WOULD GIVE UP A TOP 15 PICK FOR GORTAT! 

I assume you are a Celtics fan so let me ask you this.  If the Celtics had a possible lottery pick, would you give it up for Gortat?

It's harder to compare us and OKC since they're a top2 contender and were only top8
Title: Re: PHX/BOS Simple & Realistic
Post by: danglertx on February 05, 2013, 07:54:02 PM
Well if OKC is willing to give up a top 7 or 8 pick (which is where the standings would have that pick I'm not sure about all the protections that might be on it or even if it exists, I haven't looked it up) for Gortat, then they win him, hands down. 

I would say this though.  THERE IS NO WAY THEY WOULD GIVE UP A TOP 15 PICK FOR GORTAT! 

I assume you are a Celtics fan so let me ask you this.  If the Celtics had a possible lottery pick, would you give it up for Gortat?

It's harder to compare us and OKC since they're a top2 contender and were only top8

If you were the GM of the Thunder, would you give up a possible lottery pick to acquire Gortat?  Keeping in mind you already have Perkins, Ibaka and Thebeet as defensive C and Collison and Ibaka as offensive ones.

Really that is pretty silly.  I like Gortat as much as the next guy, but nobody is trading a potential lotto pick for him, especially when you have capable stable of big guys who two of are probably better than Gortat.  The last thing Oklahoma needs is more offense unless it is an offensive rebounder.