CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: tonyto3690 on February 03, 2013, 12:03:10 PM
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1. We are not going to get value when we trade Pierce and KG. Let them retire as Celtics.
2. We already have a very nice crop of young talent in Rondo, Sullinger, Bradley, Lee, Green, and arguably Bass. What better way to help them grow than having Pierce and KG mentoring them for two years?
3. The window isn't completely sealed shut yet. While it's not like we'll be favorites the rest of KG and Pierce's careers, that doesn't mean we're automatically a bottom feeder team. We've seen flashes this year of what this team can do when it puts it together. It's just a matter of consistency. We have the ability to knock out the Heat in the first round, there is no doubt in my mind we CAN (not will).
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1. We are not going to get value when we trade Pierce and KG. Let them retire as Celtics.
PP can not pretend to get 15 mill/year 35 years old...
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Let's just tank. The Celtics are right now are not a player on the big scene. We are a charity case fighting for the eight spot. I don't even sniff the 1st round of the playoffs. It's case of the strong eating the weak. The NFL is one of the best organizations in the World. They give top teams a bye. They let the weaklings fight it out first.
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Let's just tank. The Celtics are right now are not a player on the big scene. We are a charity case fighting for the eight spot. I don't even sniff the 1st round of the playoffs. It's case of the strong eating the weak. The NFL is one of the best organizations in the World. They give top teams a bye. They let the weaklings fight it out first.
I'm not saying I'm in favor of tanking, but because the West is so stacked, the 9th seed in the East (As of now, not end of the season) would get the 10th pick in the draft. Whereas the 8th seed gets 15th (Last playoff seed pick). Something to think about.
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Why do people keep saying we won't get value for KG and pierce? There's not a contender in the NBA that wouldn't love to have them and every win now team would give up pieces for KG. Also, yes, the window is shut bro I'm sorry.
If rondo wasn't hurt id say we have a slim chance but with him out you can forget about it. If we're talking pipe dreams then sure we have a chance. If we're talking pipe dreams any team that makes the playoffs have a chance. The only chance i think the heat lose before the finals is if rose gets healthy and back to about 90percent healthy.
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It sisn't such a bad idea, I would counter that bad value is better than letting them walk, not to mention that we will have a worse draft slot.
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Why keeping it together is such a terrible idea:
1. We're due for a first- or second-round out in the playoffs.
2. It delays our rebuilding process.
3. We end up with a mid-first round pick, instead of a potential lottery pick(s).
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Why are people so eager to rebuild, when the reality is that building towards what we currently have is pretty much the goal season in and season out, and then crossing your fingers you can actually acquire someone who can put you clearly over the top?
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Why do people keep saying we won't get value for KG and pierce? There's not a contender in the NBA that wouldn't love to have them and every win now team would give up pieces for KG. Also, yes, the window is shut bro I'm sorry.
If rondo wasn't hurt id say we have a slim chance but with him out you can forget about it. If we're talking pipe dreams then sure we have a chance. If we're talking pipe dreams any team that makes the playoffs have a chance. The only chance i think the heat lose before the finals is if rose gets healthy and back to about 90percent healthy.
1. KG has a no trade clause
2. What great value do you think we can get?
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Why do people keep saying we won't get value for KG and pierce? There's not a contender in the NBA that wouldn't love to have them and every win now team would give up pieces for KG. Also, yes, the window is shut bro I'm sorry.
If rondo wasn't hurt id say we have a slim chance but with him out you can forget about it. If we're talking pipe dreams then sure we have a chance. If we're talking pipe dreams any team that makes the playoffs have a chance. The only chance i think the heat lose before the finals is if rose gets healthy and back to about 90percent healthy.
1. KG has a no trade clause
2. What great value do you think we can get?
I know but he can agree to be traded if he wants. I'm not sure all i know is every win now team would give up some pieces for KG. What those pieces are I'm not going to pretend like i know, nobody does.
*Edit* just read this on twitter: Sources tell Sporting News that the #Clippers have contacted the #Celtics about Kevin Garnett. Offer would include Caron Butler and Beldsoe.
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Why are people so eager to rebuild, when the reality is that building towards what we currently have is pretty much the goal season in and season out, and then crossing your fingers you can actually acquire someone who can put you clearly over the top?
This.
It's amazing how many people want to bottom out now.
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OP is dead wrong about getting value back in trades for PP/KG. KG especially, has a rather modest contract for his production, and ability to instill instant toughness in to his teammates. Pierce should not be making what he makes right now, but his contract is more or less an expiring, in the sense that a contender can rent his talents for this season, and then waive him (4 or 5 million buyout?).
The Clippers would be almost a lock for a title if they were to trade for both Pierce/KG (boston gets Jordan/Butler/Odom/filler). We call a spade a spade, lose out get a top 10 pick, and begin to rebuild legitimately.
You could say the same for Chicago, if Rose comes back to full form. Imagine a Boozer/Deng for PP/KG swap.....they get to play for Tibbs and actually compete with a great chance to make it to the finals and win.....Noah/KG/PP/Rip/Rose would be the best half court team in the league.
Other teams that would improve greatly as playoff contenders with PP and/or KG: Denver, Golden State, Indiana.
There's no doubt in my mind that Boston gets 60 cents on the dollar or better for KG especially, which is more than enough in my book. We should learn from Ray Allen's departure to actually operate like an efficient business, rather than watching this painful deterioration.
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I look at it like this...I think we have a higher chance to luck out and get a top pick, than win a title.
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Why are people so eager to rebuild, when the reality is that building towards what we currently have is pretty much the goal season in and season out, and then crossing your fingers you can actually acquire someone who can put you clearly over the top?
This.
It's amazing how many people want to bottom out now.
Its not about WANTING too. Its about living in the real world and knowing this day is coming very soon even if you try to delay it as much as possible *Which would put us in a worse position once that day comes*
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I look at it like this...I think we have a higher chance to luck out and get a top pick, than win a title.
Very well said.
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I look at it like this...I think we have a higher chance to luck out and get a top pick, than win a title.
Yeah, that's pretty much true. It's always easier to be a loser. Why compete when you can just quit instead?
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I look at it like this...I think we have a higher chance to luck out and get a top pick, than win a title.
They've already won too many games to have any realistic chance at a top pick this year.
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I look at it like this...I think we have a higher chance to luck out and get a top pick, than win a title.
They've already won too many games to have any realistic chance at a top pick this year.
Realistic? Probably, but it's a ton more realistic than us winning a title.
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I look at it like this...I think we have a higher chance to luck out and get a top pick, than win a title.
Yeah, that's pretty much true. It's always easier to be a loser. Why compete when you can just quit instead?
I don't really consider early playoff exits competing, but ok.
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I look at it like this...I think we have a higher chance to luck out and get a top pick, than win a title.
Yeah, that's pretty much true. It's always easier to be a loser. Why compete when you can just quit instead?
I don't really consider early playoff exits competing, but ok.
Exactly. A first-round exit from the playoffs just sets the team up for mediocrity. There is a very great chance that KG/PP both retire at the seasons end as well, especially with this let-down kind of outcome.
Ainge should at least offer to them both, the opportunity to be traded to contending teams. How are more people not remembering what happened with Ray Allen last year? I mean, that situation was much different, in that the whole team was available (although very banged up), persisted and was a game away from the finals.
Are we really supposed to expect even this benchmark without Rondo, and now Sullinger? Pierce is nowhere near as consistent as he was last season. Green makes up for some of that lost production. Lee/Terry/Bradley make up for most of Ray Allen being gone.
I dunno, call me negative, or a ship jumper, but I would rather see the rebuilding process catalyzed by making some smart trades now, and getting future assets/picks, as well as a higher pick for 2013/14.
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If Bledsoe and Butler plus a 2013 1st rounder is the best offer out there for Garnett, I'd rather keep KG.
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Keep KG no matter what. Period.
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Are we in contention for the title this year? I agree, we are not, some the old guys are likely to retire. So we blow it up.
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If we blow it up we immediately become a bad team that is difficult to watch.
The trade off is that we gain a slim chance to acquire a franchise player who could lead our franchise for the next decade and help us contend for a title (LBJ, Durant, Howard are the only I can think of recently).
I think it's terrible because I don't want to have to sit through years of watching a bad team and bad basketball. How many teams that have blown it up and been successful?
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If we blow it up we immediately become a bad team that is difficult to watch.
The trade off is that we gain a slim chance to acquire a franchise player who could lead our franchise for the next decade and help us contend for a title (LBJ, Durant, Howard are the only I can think of recently).
I think it's terrible because I don't want to have to sit through years of watching a bad team and bad basketball. How many teams that have blown it up and been successful?
At some point we are going to have to get bad to get good again. So I don't see why anyone would want to delay it.
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I dont really get the appeal of "blowing it up" likely it means you trade players away for pennys on the dollar. likely taking on bad contracts that will cripple the team for the forseeable future in Hopes of getting a #1 pick.
if it were that simple, teams like the Bobcats, Raptors would be contendors.
I'm also not sure why everyone is under the impression that KG/Pierce will retire after this year...Obviously when KG signed that 3year deal he wasnt thinking "ya im going to retire after this season"
who is to say we cant contend next year? ad with the way we are playing right now heck we could upset a few teams and make a run
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For this current season, since I think they're beyond the point into return in regards to effective tanking, I'd like to see them ride things out and see this team go down in a fight in the playoffs.
Explore the big changes in the offseason.
Blowing it up and praying for ping ping balls is not my cup of tea right now. Went through that nonsense in the mid 2000s and that blew,
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if you mean trading PP and KG blowing up ......then yes it sinks........terrible idea.
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Blowing it up is really only a good idea when one thinks about it the abstract theoretical sense.
Trade away aging stars, acquire young building blocks, rebuild towards next dynasty.
Sounds nice.
But it won't happen.
Only contenders want Pierce or KG, and they want them to get them over the hump, so they won't give up much to get them. And picks from contending teams essentially mean nothing.
All we're likely to get is overpaid role players (to make salaries work) that won't net us anything down the road and likely won't even be around a few years from now.
It's just not worth it.