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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: OttawaCeltic on February 02, 2013, 10:46:33 PM

Title: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 02, 2013, 10:46:33 PM
Hey CelticNation! I just read a quote by a CelticBlogger' and thought of this topic should be addressed and thought upon.

Quote
Both Doc and Rondo are overrated.

The 2008 championship squad was stacked. Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supported the starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. I believe many coaches would have won a title with that many qualified subs for every position. If anything, our sixth man Big Game James Posey, deserves a heck of a lot of credit of his untiring hustle and clutch plays during the '08 run.

And finally, when the shots are falling, then Rondo has his monster games of finding the open man for the high assists, or driving in the lane for a mini-dream shake layup. The was the story of the last three playoff runs but just as in the Jim O'Brien world of the three point bombers, if those shots don't fall, then the entire offense becomes a sludge-fest with Rondo at the helm.

- TitleMaster

EDIT: I just wanted to show this statement since I feel that Pierce & KG has gotten the 'blame finger' lately while we disregard the consequences dealing with Doc & RR
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: esel1000 on February 02, 2013, 10:48:46 PM
I guess its fair to blame Rondo when he sets up his teammates for open shots and they miss. He should use his magic Rondo powers to make those shots drop
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on February 02, 2013, 10:52:11 PM
Rondo is overrated or underrated depending on who you talk too. Doc, hes so disgustingly overrated it sickens me.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: Clench123 on February 02, 2013, 11:05:24 PM
Celtics' fans intelligence is overrated
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: Onslaught on February 02, 2013, 11:12:34 PM
What is it with this place this year?
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 01:31:19 PM
Celtics' fans intelligence is overrated

Sound like some1 is ignorant :P The truth hurts
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: TitleMaster on February 03, 2013, 03:48:04 PM
From other thread, to add more details ...

BballTim:

I don't think an offense looking bad if nobody's making shots is in any way specific to Rondo-led teams.


Titlemaster (responding to BballTim):

When the shots don't fall ... you take it to the hole, or you help others, to take it to the paint by setting screens & getting in an opponent's face. The problem is that Rondo's game doesn't adapt in that situation, he still looks for that assist during a poor shooting night. Then, you have a game, lopsided by poor shot attempts.


Boris Badenov (on Doc):

Second, we are still incredibly one-dimensional at the end of games. That Pierce high screen play is no longer effective, because (a) defenses anticipate it and (b) Pierce is not the player he was a few years ago. We have new personnel, but Doc hasn't devised any new (effective) end of game sets.


Titlemaster (responds to Boris):

Problem is that there's no excuse for this. Everyone knows that Pierce was entering the twilight of his career, last season. Doc should have thought about this issue back in 2010, not 2012. And thus, have already devised game sets to take into account the changing players on the roster. Doc is not a chess player, like Riley or Pop, he's a one trick pony and he continues on that vein.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: BenHenry on February 03, 2013, 04:05:06 PM
Celtics' fans intelligence is overrated

Sound like some1 is ignorant :P The truth hurts

He was talking about himself, just let him be his feelings are hurt.

That said, there were some idiots on the other thread hoping that we lose every game and miss the playoffs just to prove their point that Rondo is the best on this team ****. All while Pierce hits a clutch 3 with less than 5 seconds left to seal the Clippers game.

These fake Celtics fan are degrading and embarrassing this forum.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 03, 2013, 04:10:32 PM
PP or KG. is still worth more than Rondo.   .....dump Rondo for a big
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: TitleMaster on February 03, 2013, 04:13:53 PM

Titlemaster (responding to BballTim):

When the shots don't fall ... you take it to the hole, or you help others, to take it to the paint by setting screens & getting in an opponent's face. The problem is that Rondo's game doesn't adapt in that situation, he still looks for that assist during a poor shooting night. Then, you have a game, lopsided by poor shot attempts.


An addendum to this, the reason why it's important for the Doc-Rondo schematic to change during a poor shooting night is for this reason ... psychological warfare. Yes, if your opponents know that your primary game plan is in jeopardy, they gain confidence and can usually mount a rally based upon that alone, nevermind defensive lapses. If you alter your approach, and start to frustrate 'em on their own defensive glitches, they may throw the game on their own exasperation.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 03, 2013, 04:55:27 PM
If in-game decision making were the only variable used to determine a coach's value, then perhaps Doc could be deemed overrated (though I am not sure anyone sees that as his strength -- other than plays off of TOs).   

Doc appears to have engendered a great deal of respect and loyalty from the people who know a lot more about the NBA than I do.  Players, owners, Danny, etc -- those who work with Doc on all those days and hours that the team is not on the court in NBA games -- seem to think he is a special coach and person.  Does that translate into wins?  I guess not always, but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 04:59:37 PM
PP or KG. is still worth more than Rondo.   .....dump Rondo for a big

Agreed 100%, but the big must be above-average and must include some other above-average young player+picks.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: TitleMaster on February 03, 2013, 05:08:45 PM
but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Ok, 2009 was the main outlying data point, as both KG and Powe were out for the postseason. That pretty much eliminated our interior game and the final demise was expected.

However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 05:49:59 PM
If in-game decision making were the only variable used to determine a coach's value, then perhaps Doc could be deemed overrated (though I am not sure anyone sees that as his strength -- other than plays off of TOs).   

Doc appears to have engendered a great deal of respect and loyalty from the people who know a lot more about the NBA than I do.  Players, owners, Danny, etc -- those who work with Doc on all those days and hours that the team is not on the court in NBA games -- seem to think he is a special coach and person.  Does that translate into wins?  I guess not always, but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Disagreed immediately upon that premise.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: xmuscularghandix on February 03, 2013, 06:05:10 PM
Agree on Rondo, disagree on Doc.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 03, 2013, 06:08:28 PM
Agree on Rondo, disagree on Doc.
[/quote

+ 1. 

Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: BballTim on February 03, 2013, 06:14:04 PM
but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Ok, 2009 was the main outlying data point, as both KG and Powe were out for the postseason. That pretty much eliminated our interior game and the final demise was expected.

However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.

  The only backup for the Celts that played really well in the playoffs was Posey. Brown wasn't that good and the other guys pretty much took turns playing their way out of the rotation.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 03, 2013, 06:21:07 PM
If in-game decision making were the only variable used to determine a coach's value, then perhaps Doc could be deemed overrated (though I am not sure anyone sees that as his strength -- other than plays off of TOs).   

Doc appears to have engendered a great deal of respect and loyalty from the people who know a lot more about the NBA than I do.  Players, owners, Danny, etc -- those who work with Doc on all those days and hours that the team is not on the court in NBA games -- seem to think he is a special coach and person.  Does that translate into wins?  I guess not always, but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Disagreed immediately upon that premise.

Not the most thoughtful response I've ever seen.

Good coaches do not always get the most wins in regular seasons.  In fact I'd rather win playoff games as Doc has been pretty good at doing.  Seems to me that the NY Giants were 9-7 in the regular season last year.  Many think Coughlin a good coach.

Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: Neurotic Guy on February 03, 2013, 06:23:51 PM
but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Ok, 2009 was the main outlying data point, as both KG and Powe were out for the postseason. That pretty much eliminated our interior game and the final demise was expected.

However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.

You bring up 2 HOF caliber coaches to compare to Doc who you say is overrated. If your point is that Doc is not as good a coach as Riley or Jackson, I would agree.  I've never (nor have I heard ANYONE EVER) suggest Doc is a HOF coach. Now if you were to say that Mike D'Antoni or Mike Brown would have beat the C's 4-1 that would make a better point.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: TitleMaster on February 03, 2013, 08:41:18 PM
However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.

You bring up 2 HOF caliber coaches to compare to Doc who you say is overrated. If your point is that Doc is not as good a coach as Riley or Jackson, I would agree.  I've never (nor have I heard ANYONE EVER) suggest Doc is a HOF coach. Now if you were to say that Mike D'Antoni or Mike Brown would have beat the C's 4-1 that would make a better point.

Ok, in the spirit of fairness, I didn't bring up Riley/Jackson to make a direct comparison to Doc, vis-a-vis a sub-par coach like Mike Brown. I'd brought up Riley/Jackson, to highlight the fact that the 2008 title team was in fact, a highly talent squad, pretty much across the board.

Where I'd make a more one-to-one mapping is to let's say KC Jones, where in fact, KC rode on his starting five, possible the best starting 5 [next to the early 70s Knicks w/ Monroe] for most the minutes of the game, with the idea that if fatigue didn't set in, then the Celts would generally win. Well, Riley understood that principle and put in his fastest guys, in various rotations, to wear out all the Celts' legs. What happened was that Riley played chess with KC; he knew perfectly well that a strong C's starting 5 could easily beat the Lakers, if they slowed down the pace, and kept their legs fresh for the final rounds. It was a chess match which Riley knew how to play. KC, however, was always fighting father time, and as a result, has similar limitations as Doc. Today, Doc can't fall back on KC-isms because for the most part, his bench isn't Kite, Thirdkill, or Carlisle. Doc's able to take a few more risks, without falling into a huge hole. Doc's bench has a lot more room to maneuver.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 09:31:27 PM
If in-game decision making were the only variable used to determine a coach's value, then perhaps Doc could be deemed overrated (though I am not sure anyone sees that as his strength -- other than plays off of TOs).   

Doc appears to have engendered a great deal of respect and loyalty from the people who know a lot more about the NBA than I do.  Players, owners, Danny, etc -- those who work with Doc on all those days and hours that the team is not on the court in NBA games -- seem to think he is a special coach and person.  Does that translate into wins?  I guess not always, but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Disagreed immediately upon that premise.

Not the most thoughtful response I've ever seen.

Good coaches do not always get the most wins in regular seasons.  In fact I'd rather win playoff games as Doc has been pretty good at doing.  Seems to me that the NY Giants were 9-7 in the regular season last year.  Many think Coughlin a good coach.

Sorry, I was too busy to say my point...

Anyways, the comparison to NFL is irrelevant and very inaccurate to the NBA playoffs. Its too different how its formed and played out, as there actually can never be a high chance for favorites to win it all. A better comparison would be the NHL or maybe Euro/China B-Ball leagues.

Wins in a season do matter to win it all:
1) HCA (we really needed the Garden in Game 7 of 2010 :( )
2) Standings (we dont wanna be 7/8th and face Miami/Knicks, it'll wear us out too early)
3) Rest (If you accomplish to get enough wins early to get a permanent spot in the standings, then you can rest up your starters, instead of scrambling to get into the playoffs)
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 09:39:33 PM
Agree on Rondo, disagree on Doc.

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: eugen on February 03, 2013, 09:41:02 PM
Rondo can not be a leader and most important player of the team. Cs should trade him for a big center.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 03, 2013, 09:44:12 PM
Rondo can not be a leader and most important player of the team. Cs should trade him for a big center.

Agreed. Also, user SHAQATTACK just said the same thing... CelticNation is thinking straight now ;D
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: crimson_stallion on February 03, 2013, 09:58:02 PM
Doc is an outstanding coach.

He's made some questionable decisions at times this year, but it's also hard when very few players on the team seemed to be playing right, and with so many people adjusting to new roles.

Looking at how well Doc has done in the past dealing with teams that have lacked talent, managing minutes for the older players and also managing injuries, he's been as good a coach as any in this league - Jackson and Pop included.

Every season after 2008 Doc has been put in difficult scenarios, but in every one of those season's he has kept the team competitive.  Even 2008 would not have been an easy season to coach by any means - trying to get three superstars to leave their Ego's at the door and work together, while also trying to get those guys to respect younger guys like Rondo and Perkins?  That's no easy task.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 03, 2013, 10:39:46 PM
overall Doc is a good coach........his weakness is trusting in Rondo to control too much of the game.

Clippers suck without CP3
Celtics play better without Rondo

Give the Celtics CP3 and the Celtics bring home banner 18

CP3.   is the leader of the Clips, with out Paul , the Clippers coach is history..........he lucked out

think how amazing Doc would seem with C P3 guiding the team

it is clear why DA wanted to trade Rondo for CP3.........failed :'(
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 04, 2013, 09:34:07 PM
overall Doc is a good coach........his weakness is trusting in Rondo to control too much of the game.

Clippers suck without CP3
Celtics play better without Rondo

Give the Celtics CP3 and the Celtics bring home banner 18

CP3.   is the leader of the Clips, with out Paul , the Clippers coach is history..........he lucked out

think how amazing Doc would seem with C P3 guiding the team

it is clear why DA wanted to trade Rondo for CP3.........failed :'(

TP
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on February 05, 2013, 08:46:01 PM
Rondo is not over rated....he is just used, coached wrong....anytime you allow your players to do as they wish...you are not managing them......rondo is great, has invented more passes than anyone.....he just needs to be told to move it up the floor faster...change it up...pass it up sometimes.....keep 'em guessing....play off the ball...play him with more up-tempo guys too.....management....
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 09, 2013, 10:31:24 AM
Rondo is not over rated....he is just used, coached wrong....anytime you allow your players to do as they wish...you are not managing them......rondo is great, has invented more passes than anyone.....he just needs to be told to move it up the floor faster...change it up...pass it up sometimes.....keep 'em guessing....play off the ball...play him with more up-tempo guys too.....management....

So you're saying Doc is more 'blamable' than Rajon?
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: OttawaCeltic on February 09, 2013, 10:57:53 AM
but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Ok, 2009 was the main outlying data point, as both KG and Powe were out for the postseason. That pretty much eliminated our interior game and the final demise was expected.

However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.

  The only backup for the Celts that played really well in the playoffs was Posey. Brown wasn't that good and the other guys pretty much took turns playing their way out of the rotation.

House???
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 11:48:16 AM
but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Ok, 2009 was the main outlying data point, as both KG and Powe were out for the postseason. That pretty much eliminated our interior game and the final demise was expected.

However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.

  The only backup for the Celts that played really well in the playoffs was Posey. Brown wasn't that good and the other guys pretty much took turns playing their way out of the rotation.

House???

  Yes, House too.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: TitleMaster on February 09, 2013, 09:26:30 PM
but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Ok, 2009 was the main outlying data point, as both KG and Powe were out for the postseason. That pretty much eliminated our interior game and the final demise was expected.

However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.

  The only backup for the Celts that played really well in the playoffs was Posey. Brown wasn't that good and the other guys pretty much took turns playing their way out of the rotation.

House???

  Yes, House too.

I don't understand why folks need to denigrate the 2008 bench. For all intensive purposes, they'd provided rest for all of the starters. Along with Posey & House, don't forget PJ's defense in the Cav's series game 7, as well as Powe's dominance in game 2 of the finals. Likewise, BBD, Cassell, TA, & Scals also provided meaningful minutes.

Contrast that with Kite, Carlisle, & Thirdkill and you can see that the 2008 squad had much better support than Bird & Co, minus the Bill Walton year title.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: BballTim on February 09, 2013, 10:00:05 PM
but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Ok, 2009 was the main outlying data point, as both KG and Powe were out for the postseason. That pretty much eliminated our interior game and the final demise was expected.

However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.

  The only backup for the Celts that played really well in the playoffs was Posey. Brown wasn't that good and the other guys pretty much took turns playing their way out of the rotation.

House???

  Yes, House too.

I don't understand why folks need to denigrate the 2008 bench. For all intensive purposes, they'd provided rest for all of the starters. Along with Posey & House, don't forget PJ's defense in the Cav's series game 7, as well as Powe's dominance in game 2 of the finals. Likewise, BBD, Cassell, TA, & Scals also provided meaningful minutes.

Contrast that with Kite, Carlisle, & Thirdkill and you can see that the 2008 squad had much better support than Bird & Co, minus the Bill Walton year title.

  I don't see the need to denigrate Doc for the job he's done either. And those benches on the title winning teams in the 80s contained names like McHale/Ainge/Henderson/Robey/Buckner/Wedman in addition to Walton.
Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: TitleMaster on February 12, 2013, 01:44:58 PM
Ok, more evidence of Doc's overratedness, underplaying a hot Green, while wearing out the legs of the older Vets ...

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62758.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62758.0)

Title: Re: Both Doc and Rondo are overrated
Post by: Meadowlark_Scal on February 12, 2013, 02:33:01 PM
ondo isn't over rated..Doc however..is just a lucky guy who landed on a great team...and could only produce one ring, when he should have had more.