CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rondohondo on February 01, 2013, 12:22:28 PM
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e67AvcxHrU&feature=player_embedded
I actually made a thread about a similar trade with KG going to the spurs and Splitter and Jackson's expiring coming back to the c's.
Rose also thinks the c's should trade PP to the Pacers for Danny Granger. He would be a 13 mil expiring contract next season, but I don't see why the c's would care when they could simply waive PP for only 4 mil against the cap next year.
I would probably do the 1st trade, but not the PP one unless I am getting back expiring contracts and a pick or young player with upside.
-
Jackson is past his prime and splitter is a good role player..not sure why everybody pumps this guy up
-
Pierce and Collins for Granger and Tyler Hansbrough.
-
Yeah lets blow it up for crap instead of just waiting for things to work out and playing the year out.
We can't get any value. No one who says this knows what they are talking about.
If the value is there, fine. But this is dumb.
I'd rather just play it out, get cap space later and let the young guys play with the greats for another season.
-
Jackson is past his prime and splitter is a good role player..not sure why everybody pumps this guy up
Jackson is not in this trade for his ability, he's an expiring contract.
-
I'm all for blowing it up only if we get the right guys back tho. Even tho we aren't winning a championship I'm pretty confident we'll make the playoffs. Not like that means anything but still.
-
I would be delighted if Danny Ainge could get a player as good as Danny Granger for a 35 year old Paul Pierce.
I don't understand the upside for Indiana though.
-
I'm all for blowing it up only if we get the right guys back tho. Even tho we aren't winning a championship I'm pretty confident we'll make the playoffs. Not like that means anything but still.
I think it can mean something, as far as development and experience for the young guys.
I'd take good value over that but I just don't see it. We can waive Pierce if we want and KG can retire, and very possibly will. If KG doesn't he's still a great player to have.
-
Tiago Splitter's contract expires this summer. He'll be due a pay increase. Probably for a bit more than the MLE. Maybe $7 million per annum. Multi-year contract. Say a four year $26-30 million deal.
I think it be worth signing Splitter to that type of a contract. I think he'd be a good long term trade asset to keep hold of. A lot like Orlando did with Marcin Gortat.
Splitter's production would go way up playing alongside Rajon Rondo as the Celtics' starting center too. He'd probably be good for 16-18ppg and 8-9rpg in long minutes while being one of the league leaders in FG%. As a trade asset, he could fetch a very nice piece (player, prospect or lotto pick) down the road.
-
At least he's not delusional and saying we're "better without rondo" like the media and fans in our own market.. kudos to jalen
-
I wouldn't touch Granger right now.
Too much uncertainty and the ceiling has already been hit.
-
At least he's not delusional and saying we're "better without rondo" kudos to jalen
lol yea, seriously, some people on this board are extremely delusional .
-
I would be delighted if Danny Ainge could get a player as good as Danny Granger for a 35 year old Paul Pierce.
I don't understand the upside for Indiana though.
Pierce is a muuuuuccccch better player than Granger even at thirty five and I would much rather have Pierce. Not only is Granger coming of a significant injury but he has greatly declined in play and stats over the last two seasons.
-
I would only do the kg trade if we lose from now until the trade deadline. Splitter has potential to be a nice starter for years to come. Think of marc gasol. 1st pick is also nice. Also gives kg a chance to win another ring which I want. I wouldn't do the pierce to pacers trade though. We need a pg back at least. Pierce to clippers for Bledsoe, butler and 1st. That would give us 3 1st for a terrific pick. I'd also trade rondo for a package including another 1st. Possible to get 2 lotto or 1 top 5 like a Anthony Bennett at worse
2013 post blow up lineup
Starters - splitter, sully, green, ab, Bledsoe
Bench - high draft pick, Melo, lee, terry, bass. Waive butler, Jackson. Keep terry as the vet presence
-
Hire Jalen to be an assistant to Danny!!!
He makes sense - trade KG to a contender to put them over the top! (I kinda feel like KG will go down with an injury soon - I don't want it to happen but I do feel that way) - I would also hope that KG retires after THIS year so we don't have to play against him.
The PP trade - well not too sure about it....
I'd love to get Splitter and an expiring for next year....
-
I think it's best to play it out unless we're getting a legit deal. Splitter isn't one. Neither is granger coming off knee surgery.
If Lebron goes down anything can happen.
-
I think it's best to play it out unless we're getting a legit deal. Splitter isn't one. Neither is granger coming off knee surgery.
If Lebron goes down anything can happen.
Don't really think so....
what about Chicago...NY....Brooklyn.....Indiana....Atlanta....do you need me to keep going??????
and that's only in the East.
-
I agree we should blow it up. I'm hoping we can some kind of 1st rounders for KG and or Pierce
-
I think it's best to play it out unless we're getting a legit deal. Splitter isn't one. Neither is granger coming off knee surgery.
If Lebron goes down anything can happen.
Please be realistic. You can't expect the world back for two aged superstars. If u can get an impact players plus 1st round picks they all add up. If we blow it up we pro. Will stink. Plus two more 1st can get a super pick worthy of a kg or pp
-
Jalen's trade proposals are pretty terrible. In the Spurs trade, the Celtics would just be giving away KG. I'd rather watch KG play in green until he retires.
As for the Indiana deal, I don't see why Indiana would trade their star forward for a 1-2 year rental on a declining Paul Pierce.
I have yet to see the talking heads offer a deal that makes any sense. Unless the Celtics get a lottery pick for each player, there really isn't anything out there that makes more sense than just keeping these 2 players for another year and 3 months.
-
I would be delighted if Danny Ainge could get a player as good as Danny Granger for a 35 year old Paul Pierce.
I don't understand the upside for Indiana though.
Pierce is a muuuuuccccch better player than Granger even at thirty five and I would much rather have Pierce. Not only is Granger coming of a significant injury but he has greatly declined in play and stats over the last two seasons.
I don't think Pierce is that much better than Granger. The only thing I reckon Pierce really has over Granger at this point is ball-handling and passing ability.
A slight downgrade for a player with another 3+ years of strong performances in him.
I'll happily do that deal.
-
Is Splitter a restricted free agent in any way? Isn't he on some iteration of a rookie deal?
I'd happily make both of those deals by the way. I'd also look to move Terry to Memphis for their trade exception and a future pick. Find somewhere to dump Bass too.
Rondo/Bradley/Granger/Sully/Splitter is a fun group for the interim while the team looks to accumulate assets for the next big move.
-
These trades make no sense because they don't improve the team short or long term. The Celtics aren't crippled by terrible contracts because Pierce can be bought out for $4mil and KG might retire. If they both stay then that means there is nothing better. Giving away KG without getting out of Terry's deal makes no sense. The Celtics aren't going to lure free agents so we have to get players through trade and draft.
As for the "c's are better without Rondo" crowd, I'm not in that crowd but I will say that the usage if Rondo has been terrible the last two years. There is all this talk every year of Rondo being more aggressive but he only does it in spurts and the incessant dribbling looking for the perfect play reminds me of watching Drew Bledsoe waiting 10 minutes for an absolutely wide open receiver. If play A isn't there goto play B...don't let play A take 19 seconds to develop.
-
How serious was Danny Granger's knee injury? Is it career-threatening? Yahoo's blog "Ball Don't Lie" said Granger has "jumper's knee". How serious an injury is that?
Granger only has 18 months left on his contract so it wouldn't be too hurtful a miscue if Granger wasn't able to make it back fully from his knee injury.
Indy Star says Granger should be back in the next couple of weeks sometime around the All-Star game. I am looking forward seeing Granger back with Indy. It'll be nice for that team to get another weapon offensively.
-
Pierce for Granger is a non-starter for me. Don't see the use of it in any context really.
-
I like Splitters game but I don't like trading KG for him. Can we get Brandon Bass for him (answer no)? We really need big man help Rondo or no Rondo.
And I am opposed to trading Paul Pierce. Jeff Green will take over the three once Pierce retires.
-
I would be delighted if Danny Ainge could get a player as good as Danny Granger for a 35 year old Paul Pierce.
I don't understand the upside for Indiana though.
Pierce is better than Granger right now and can be waived this summer if it doesn't work out (or he might retire). Pierce, in addition to being better, would also provide that very young team some toughness and leadership and would be a better mentor to Paul George than Granger is.
-
These trades make no sense because they don't improve the team short or long term.
If you could trade KG and Pierce and get back Splitter and Granger, the upside is obvious. It's flipping two old players for two youngish players without taking back any horrible contracts. At worst, Boston gets a lot younger, loses more games this year for a better draft pick and is able to make decisions on rebuilding the roster without having to wait for KG and Pierce to decide whether they want to deep playing. At best, Boston still makes the playoffs this year and has two more quality young players to build around Rondo with for the future.
Myself, I'd rather Ainge keep this team together. But if either SA or Indy were also willing to take Bass or throw in a 1st rounder? Hard to turn that down.
Mike
-
I wouldn't touch Granger right now.
Too much uncertainty and the ceiling has already been hit.
Couldn't agree more. Granger has never gotten any better than when people were starting to think he was going to be Melo-like. People seem to still act like he has that potential.
-
I would be delighted if Danny Ainge could get a player as good as Danny Granger for a 35 year old Paul Pierce.
I don't understand the upside for Indiana though.
Pierce is better than Granger right now and can be waived this summer if it doesn't work out (or he might retire). Pierce, in addition to being better, would also provide that very young team some toughness and leadership and would be a better mentor to Paul George than Granger is.
Indiana is no more a title threat with Pierce than they are with Granger.
Trading for a short term boost when you aren't capable of capitalizing on it + hurting yourself in both the medium and long term is pointless.
Indiana are not in a position to make this type of a swap worthwhile for them.
-
I would be delighted if Danny Ainge could get a player as good as Danny Granger for a 35 year old Paul Pierce.
I don't understand the upside for Indiana though.
Pierce is better than Granger right now and can be waived this summer if it doesn't work out (or he might retire). Pierce, in addition to being better, would also provide that very young team some toughness and leadership and would be a better mentor to Paul George than Granger is.
Indiana is no more a title threat with Pierce than they are with Granger.
Trading for a short term boost when you aren't capable of capitalizing on it + hurting yourself in both the medium and long term is pointless.
Indiana are not in a position to make this type of a swap worthwhile for them.
I think Indiana is one of the few teams that could actually challenge the Heat in the East. The addition of Pierce gives them a go to scorer that they really need and that often makes the difference in the playoffs. I also don't think Granger is in their long term plans, so I think any upgrade they can get is worthwhile for them. Pierce is also playing right now and not coming off of an injury, so there is a lot more certainty with him.
Frankly, I wouldn't do the trade if I'm Boston, as I just don't see the point in it. Doesn't make the team any better and doesn't provide enough assets to serve as a rebuilding trade.
-
Unless we get a player better than Garnett or Pierce at this stage of their careers that can seriously help us win a championship next year when Rondo gets back, its time to blow it all up. We play this game for titles & that's why I watch! I enjoyed watching the terrible 06' team with no hint at winning for 4-5yrs. at best in their future, but atleast it was a future to look ahead to. We are kidding ourselves thinking we can still win BIG without a major 2-3rd banana we are missing right now. So I say lets transition & enjoy some bad/learning basketball from our youngsters while accumulating assets while struggling/losing that positions us for that next future superstar through the draft or Free Agency a couple years from now (not Josh Smith). Bradley,Sullinger & Melo needs to be playing huge minutes going forward & the roster needs to be dramatically shaken up with a Gortat,Cousins,Love,Smith instantly with KG & Pierce still here. Or Bait our stars out to winning teams trying to gain assets thats useful in 2014-15 that gives us ALOT of cap room to maneuver enough to get us 2 max guys thats ready to usher in the next wave of great Celtics teams.
-
I would be delighted if Danny Ainge could get a player as good as Danny Granger for a 35 year old Paul Pierce.
I don't understand the upside for Indiana though.
Pierce is better than Granger right now and can be waived this summer if it doesn't work out (or he might retire). Pierce, in addition to being better, would also provide that very young team some toughness and leadership and would be a better mentor to Paul George than Granger is.
Indiana is no more a title threat with Pierce than they are with Granger.
Trading for a short term boost when you aren't capable of capitalizing on it + hurting yourself in both the medium and long term is pointless.
Indiana are not in a position to make this type of a swap worthwhile for them.
I think Indiana is one of the few teams that could actually challenge the Heat in the East. The addition of Pierce gives them a go to scorer that they really need and that often makes the difference in the playoffs. I also don't think Granger is in their long term plans, so I think any upgrade they can get is worthwhile for them. Pierce is also playing right now and not coming off of an injury, so there is a lot more certainty with him.
Frankly, I wouldn't do the trade if I'm Boston, as I just don't see the point in it. Doesn't make the team any better and doesn't provide enough assets to serve as a rebuilding trade.
Well, that's fair enough. If you think Indy can do that, then the trade makes sense.
I am the opposite. I actually think Indiana is one of the least likely playoff teams in the East to threaten Miami in a playoff series.
-
Yeah I don't really understand the hesitation a lot of people are having about Pierce. The only worry I would have is if he would play for another team or not. Seems like you would just ask him right? "Hey Paul, if we trade for you would you be our scoring 6th man?" Easy enough.
The thing is a lot of the posts on this board talk about him being a bad asset from a skill perspective and I just don't see it. Even when slumping he put up better #s than Rudy Gay. He rebounds like a champ, can pass the ball extremely well and has no range he can't hit from. While I agree he's slow, he's not really a defensive liability. On top of all of that he's on a near-expiring contract. Seems like a good asset to me, specifically to a contender.
The only reason the Cs should trade Pierce is if we're not competing this year. The reason Indiana would take him for Granger is because Pierce is better than Granger and has been at every turn. Indiana is in the hunt this year. Pierce would really make a difference come playoff time. He's also a huge cap-relief next year which will help Indiana resign David West if they want to. They owe Granger 13M, that would free up 9M after they waive Pierce to resign players and stay under the tax line. With small market teams that makes a difference, see Memphis.
Personally I'm not sure we'd be getting enough for Pierce in the deal. I'd move him somewhere we could get a young player and a 1st rounder. Exactly what Ainge was asking for Ray last year. It's possible we don't get it but the worst case scenario is htat we're stuck with a top 10 SF on a near-expiring contract. Boo-hoo.
-
Pierce and Collins for Granger and Tyler Hansbrough.
That one is launghable. Why on earth would the Pacers do that?
-
With Rondo and Sully out for the year , it makes zero sense to keep this overpaid group of mediocre talent together.
Fire sale time, fall into the lottery for 2 years , then in 2014 there will be some very good free agents
-
Welp now I may feel differently about this...
With Rondo and Sully out for the year , it makes zero sense to keep this overpaid group of mediocre talent together.
Fire sale time, fall into the lottery for 2 years , then in 2014 there will be some very good free agents
Only fools "fire sale" their teams though.
-
I would be delighted if Danny Ainge could get a player as good as Danny Granger for a 35 year old Paul Pierce.
I don't understand the upside for Indiana though.
Pierce is better than Granger right now and can be waived this summer if it doesn't work out (or he might retire). Pierce, in addition to being better, would also provide that very young team some toughness and leadership and would be a better mentor to Paul George than Granger is.
Indiana is no more a title threat with Pierce than they are with Granger.
Trading for a short term boost when you aren't capable of capitalizing on it + hurting yourself in both the medium and long term is pointless.
Indiana are not in a position to make this type of a swap worthwhile for them.
I think Indiana is one of the few teams that could actually challenge the Heat in the East. The addition of Pierce gives them a go to scorer that they really need and that often makes the difference in the playoffs. I also don't think Granger is in their long term plans, so I think any upgrade they can get is worthwhile for them. Pierce is also playing right now and not coming off of an injury, so there is a lot more certainty with him.
Frankly, I wouldn't do the trade if I'm Boston, as I just don't see the point in it. Doesn't make the team any better and doesn't provide enough assets to serve as a rebuilding trade.
Well, that's fair enough. If you think Indy can do that, then the trade makes sense.
I am the opposite. I actually think Indiana is one of the least likely playoff teams in the East to threaten Miami in a playoff series.
Yeah if Indy couldn't do it last year while Bosh was out, I don't see how they beat them this year. The improvement of Paul George (along with the uncertain return of Granger) in no way compares to how much improved Miami is with Bosh back and now Ray Allen.
-
The SA trade would intrigue me. I agree with one poster's comparison of the Marc Gasol like potential in Splitter. No guarantee he reaches it, but I do like the potential there.
Also, if KG is going somewhere, I would absolutely love to watch him play basketball on that Spurs team alongside Duncan. That would be a real treat for us fans who like textbook basketball and defense. Also, I think they'd win the championship which I want to see for KG if the celtics can't win it themselves.
-
So trade them for cap space and a role player (Splitter)? Sorry, but I'd want something a little more for PP and KG.
KG also has to waive the no-trade. I don't really see him doing that unless its LAC so he can be close to home in Malibu. If the Clippers were silly enough to give up Bledsoe, then I'd think about it.
There is definitely more out there for PP than 'Danny Granger's expiring contract.' Especially when Pierce is only guaranteed 4mil next season.
PASS.
-
So trade them for cap space and a role player (Splitter)? Sorry, but I'd want something a little more for PP and KG.
KG also has to waive the no-trade. I don't really see him doing that unless its LAC so he can be close to home in Malibu. If the Clippers were silly enough to give up Bledsoe, then I'd think about it.
There is definitely more out there for PP than 'Danny Granger's expiring contract.' Especially when Pierce is only guaranteed 4mil next season.
PASS.
Honest question: Why would LAC be silly to give up Bledsoe for KG.
If they think Bledsoe plus Odom's expiring for KG brings them a championship, why wouldn't they?
-
So trade them for cap space and a role player (Splitter)? Sorry, but I'd want something a little more for PP and KG.
There is definitely more out there for PP than 'Danny Granger's expiring contract.' Especially when Pierce is only guaranteed 4mil next season.
PASS.
I want a date with Kate Upton. What you want doesn't matter. And what, exactly, do you think Ainge can get for Pierce? He's not going to get a dramatically better and younger player. He's not going to get a 1st round pick. And he sure as heck doesn't want to take back a bad contract.
Mike
-
Like to come out of the KG trade with a little more, but I do like Splitter, I have to think on that more.
PP for Granger no thanks, we need to trade him for a Millsap or Smith, we have to find a way to come out of this with a player, cap space is useless to us.
-
PP for Granger no thanks, we need to trade him for a Millsap or Smith, we have to find a way to come out of this with a player, cap space is useless to us.
I'll take Milsap over Granger, but Granger over Smith. I'd rather kick Granger's tires with the option of shipping out his expiring deal than chain Boston to a long-term, max-or-near-max deal with one of the premiere on-court knuckleheads in the NBA.
Mike
-
Hmm KG to Spurs I do not know if Timmy would like it.
-
Can we blow up Jalen Rose? :)
Even after Sully's loss, I'd still like to see this roster go down swinging.
-
Hmm KG to Spurs I do not know if Timmy would like it.
I was wondering the same thing? How bad is the blood between those two? Maybe after so long it doesn't matter anymore. Both guys are warriors. I don't think Splitter is enough for KG if I am DA. If KG was sent to SA, I can def say who I would be rooting for out of the west. I don't think it happens though.
As for the PP to Pacers. Ugg I think PP is worth more to us this year, and maybe next than Danny G right now. Never been a huge DG fan though...I would rather keep PP.
-
Duncan-KG = Championship guaranteed.
-
Can we blow up Jalen Rose? :)
Even after Sully's loss, I'd still like to see this roster go down swinging.
TP. I think you're right.