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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ScoobyDoo on January 29, 2013, 03:04:52 PM

Title: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: ScoobyDoo on January 29, 2013, 03:04:52 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?
 
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: ScoobyDoo on January 29, 2013, 03:06:02 PM
Especially Sully though, he's 6'8" and 270 and known for a decent post game - and I see him take more mid range jump shots than post ups...
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Chief on January 29, 2013, 03:08:44 PM
I 100% agree. Also, if Doc would play Pierce at the 2 and Green at the 3, Pierce would dominate on the post.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Who on January 29, 2013, 03:10:32 PM
Doc will have no option but to do this while Rondo is out.

The team simply doesn't have enough creativity offensively without Rondo around. The offense will devolve into a much larger than healthy proportion of isolations and post ups.

Just the way it is.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: ssspence on January 29, 2013, 03:12:59 PM
I 100% agree. Also, if Doc would play Pierce at the 2 and Green at the 3, Pierce would dominate on the post.

....and get dominated at the other end.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: ScottHow on January 29, 2013, 03:14:27 PM
Get it to Sully!
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Fafnir on January 29, 2013, 03:16:35 PM
I 100% agree. Also, if Doc would play Pierce at the 2 and Green at the 3, Pierce would dominate on the post.

....and get dominated at the other end.
Yeah Korver demonstrated that pretty plainly. Paul can't get through screens quick enough against a shooter who can catch and shoot quickly.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Evantime34 on January 29, 2013, 03:19:34 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?
I cringe every time I see Jeff Green do his slow motion post up routine. Especially since the jump hook he's so fond of never goes down. If they decide to post him up I'd love to see him rip through and face the hoop. That way he can use his quickness and length to attack the hoop rather than getting bodied while he shoots a contested hook.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Roy H. on January 29, 2013, 03:21:17 PM
I was surprised how little we post up. 

Sully: 12-for-28 (42.9%)
Green:  15-for-54 (27.8%)
KG:  81-for-180 (45.0%)

That's 262 combined shot attempts, or about 6 post-up attempts per game for those three.  I think part of the reason we post-up relatively rarely is because our spacing has been terrible this year.  Additionally, it's just not a strength of a lot of our players; KG is our best player down low, but he doesn't like playing there.

I'd like to see Doc run more post plays, as well.  Sully had some real talent there in college; I'd like to see what he can do on this level.

Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Fafnir on January 29, 2013, 03:23:09 PM
I was surprised how little we post up. 

Sully: 12-for-28 (42.9%)
Green:  15-for-54 (27.8%)
KG:  81-for-180 (45.0%)

That's 262 combined shot attempts, or about 6 post-up attempts per game for those three.  I think part of the reason we post-up relatively rarely is because our spacing has been terrible this year.  Additionally, it's just not a strength of a lot of our players; KG is our best player down low, but he doesn't like playing there.

I'd like to see Doc run more post plays, as well.  Sully had some real talent there in college; I'd like to see what he can do on this level.
6 post ups that result in shot attempts, I wonder how often we pass out of the post with KG? I don't imagine it'd add much to the number but KG is a very willing passer.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: slamtheking on January 29, 2013, 03:25:04 PM
"Why don't we post up more?"

Because we have Doc as coach.

This team hasn't made much of an effort to use a post game since Big Al left town.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: BballTim on January 29, 2013, 03:25:13 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?

  Sully doesn't know how to get his shot off against taller players yet, I don't know how much success he'll have posting up at this stage. KG can do it but not too much, I keep thinking back to the last game or two of the 2011 Miami series where he was posting up a lot (and with good success) early in the game and too spent to be effective in the second half.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: BballTim on January 29, 2013, 03:27:43 PM
I was surprised how little we post up. 

Sully: 12-for-28 (42.9%)
Green:  15-for-54 (27.8%)
KG:  81-for-180 (45.0%)


  FWIW we're more efficient shooting mid-range jumpers than we are on the numbers you're citing.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Evantime34 on January 29, 2013, 03:30:45 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?

  Sully doesn't know how to get his shot off against taller players yet, I don't know how much success he'll have posting up at this stage. KG can do it but not too much, I keep thinking back to the last game or two of the 2011 Miami series where he was posting up a lot (and with good success) early in the game and too spent to be effective in the second half.
He is a pretty smart player, I see him using his high likelihood of getting blocked to his advantage, by up faking and creating fouls. If after a few up fakes he doesn't have it, I think he'll kick it out.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Fafnir on January 29, 2013, 03:32:26 PM
"Why don't we post up more?"

Because we have Doc as coach.

This team hasn't made much of an effort to use a post game since Big Al left town.
KG was in the post all the time in 2007-2008 in the playoffs. We ran our offense through Paul at the elbow and KG in the post.

Have we had a decent post player since Al left? I know the C's had a deal with Perkins that for every offensve rebound he got he'd get a post up.....

Edit: Decent post player other than KG, and with him we've used it when he's had an advantage. (especially in the playoffs)
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 29, 2013, 03:32:46 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?

I've been screaming for this all dang year now. But i am sure somebody will come in and say sully cannot post up blah blah blah. watch.  ::)
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: BballTim on January 29, 2013, 03:33:37 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?

  Sully doesn't know how to get his shot off against taller players yet, I don't know how much success he'll have posting up at this stage. KG can do it but not too much, I keep thinking back to the last game or two of the 2011 Miami series where he was posting up a lot (and with good success) early in the game and too spent to be effective in the second half.
He is a pretty smart player, I see him using his high likelihood of getting blocked to his advantage, by up faking and creating fouls. If after a few up fakes he doesn't have it, I think he'll kick it out.

 That's what I'd like to see, not what I've seen so far.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 29, 2013, 03:36:05 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?

  Sully doesn't know how to get his shot off against taller players yet, I don't know how much success he'll have posting up at this stage. KG can do it but not too much, I keep thinking back to the last game or two of the 2011 Miami series where he was posting up a lot (and with good success) early in the game and too spent to be effective in the second half.
He is a pretty smart player, I see him using his high likelihood of getting blocked to his advantage, by up faking and creating fouls. If after a few up fakes he doesn't have it, I think he'll kick it out.

 That's what I'd like to see, not what I've seen so far.

BBD used to pound the boards down low like that and use up fakes.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Evantime34 on January 29, 2013, 03:38:35 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?

  Sully doesn't know how to get his shot off against taller players yet, I don't know how much success he'll have posting up at this stage. KG can do it but not too much, I keep thinking back to the last game or two of the 2011 Miami series where he was posting up a lot (and with good success) early in the game and too spent to be effective in the second half.
He is a pretty smart player, I see him using his high likelihood of getting blocked to his advantage, by up faking and creating fouls. If after a few up fakes he doesn't have it, I think he'll kick it out.

 That's what I'd like to see, not what I've seen so far.
When the team is losing wishful thinking makes me feel better ;-)
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: BballTim on January 29, 2013, 03:42:36 PM
While watching the Miami game, it seemed like we were constantly forming an arc of players around and moving the ball to try and get a mid range jump shot.

Both KG and Sully are decent post up players and I think Pierce and Green could do some damage down there as well.

Why do we not stick Sully's big behind down there a few times a game and let him try to get something done?

Same for Pierce especially since he's struggling form outside.

I'd like to see Green down there a little more as well.

Thoughts?

  Sully doesn't know how to get his shot off against taller players yet, I don't know how much success he'll have posting up at this stage. KG can do it but not too much, I keep thinking back to the last game or two of the 2011 Miami series where he was posting up a lot (and with good success) early in the game and too spent to be effective in the second half.
He is a pretty smart player, I see him using his high likelihood of getting blocked to his advantage, by up faking and creating fouls. If after a few up fakes he doesn't have it, I think he'll kick it out.

 That's what I'd like to see, not what I've seen so far.
When the team is losing wishful thinking makes me feel better ;-)

  I don't want to stand in the way of that. Carry on.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: ScoobyDoo on January 29, 2013, 04:11:32 PM
Ok so it's not just me. Good stat Roy - that seems shockingly low as a % on post ups. Means if we're not hitting jumpers, the D can just camp in the lane.

So many times I see us form this arc around the perimeter with nothing into the middle.

I would really start pounding the ball into the post, as follows:

1. Sully - and I fully expect him to get his shot blocked fairly often - at first - and I want that to happen. Why, because Sully will start figuring very quickly how to leverage his body weight against NBA bigs on the block and because he has displayed a rather surprising and effective fade away jumper in the post he will also start figuring out the value of the "up and under". I have full confidence in his ability to "figure it out" pretty quickly down there.

2. KG - actually very effective down there when he goes. Also, like Sully you have to give him attention on the block and both KG and Sully are very good passers.

3. Pierce - very crafty on the side block and elbows -no mystery there.

4. Jeff Green - agree with the rip through and face up, a quick step and to the rim. Or just start taking some simple fade away jumpers from 8-10 feet, get comfortable with it down there.

If we combine this with Bradley and Lee getting into the lane and attacking the basket our offense won't be so predictable.

And it would just be more fun to watch as well.       
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: 2short on January 29, 2013, 04:12:32 PM
coaching decision
if i had green in i'd have him on the box at least 1/2 the time and take him on the low post against EVERY small forward in the league except maybe lebron
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: action781 on January 29, 2013, 04:15:31 PM
I would expect that even if KG shoots only 45% from the post, what I gather from watching is that he draws help defense and passes out frequently which makes the opposing team scrambling to recover and leads to quality shot attempts for the rest of the team.

I've long wanted us to run the offense through KG in the low post similar to how SA used to with Duncan even if KG's not taking a ton of shots there.  He will still be able to pop out to take his high % jumper once he passes out and the defense is scrambling also.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: CelticConcourse on January 29, 2013, 04:16:20 PM
We could have posted up Rondo.
Jeff Green needs some ISO postups.
Paul Pierce gets enough.
Kevin Garnett can have a few more, but he's fine.
Courtney Lee, maybe over smaller defenders.
Avery Bradley, should do it over Isaiah tomorrow vs. Kings.
Brandon Bass, could give it a go.
Leandro Barbosa and Jason Collins, should not.

I think Jeff Green is the main guy we need to post up more. He can post up well
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Boris Badenov on January 29, 2013, 04:21:58 PM
I think there's a glitch in the forums, this thread is from 2008.

And 2009. And 2010. And 2011.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: 2short on January 29, 2013, 04:25:54 PM
Hey! Join the chat on ***The Bash Rondo Thread***

Link: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62008.msg1388869;topicseen#new

Remember, no profound language or personal attacks. Make your thinking clear and not hateful. Its just an open discussion, LET IT ALL OUT  ;D
really?
isn't this considered trolling
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: CelticConcourse on January 29, 2013, 04:27:04 PM
Hey! Join the chat on ***The Bash Rondo Thread***

Link: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62008.msg1388869;topicseen#new

Remember, no profound language or personal attacks. Make your thinking clear and not hateful. Its just an open discussion, LET IT ALL OUT  ;D

Enough already, if we want to post, we will. Now please stop spamming valuable discussions.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: erisred on January 29, 2013, 04:32:28 PM
Yeah, well, I want to see some pick and rolls!  :D  I mean, remember, how Terry and Dirk ran that play over and over a couple of years ago?

KG, Sully, Green, even Pierce ought to be rolling to the basket after setting picks for Terry. All four of them can finish at the rim and Terry is a good passer and has a good mid-range shot. Three of them, we know have good mid-range jumpshots, too, in case they want to pop.  I don't know how Bradley or Lee would do with the pick and roll, but Terry and Barbosa ought to eat it up!

I don't think we'd confuse our guys with Stockton and Malone, but it seems to be a bread and butter play everywhere but in Boston.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: dark_lord on January 29, 2013, 04:37:03 PM
Hey! Join the chat on ***The Bash Rondo Thread***

Link: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=62008.msg1388869;topicseen#new

Remember, no profound language or personal attacks. Make your thinking clear and not hateful. Its just an open discussion, LET IT ALL OUT  ;D

Enough already, if we want to post, we will. Now please stop spamming valuable discussions.

co-sign
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 29, 2013, 04:47:17 PM
'Cause Doc doesn't like to mix things up. We may not have a lot of post players, or great post players, but let's face it: Doc has a specific system that he designed when the Big 3 came together, and whether good or bad he sticks with it, no matter what. This is why we have Jason Terry, a pick-and-roll player, running Ray Allen's multiscreen curl routes. Doc wants Rondo to dominate the ball, he wants whoever's in the "Ray Allen" slot to run around endless screens, and he wants everyone else standing around the perimeter 99% of the time.

Look, Rondo has great court vision and is great at getting the ball to guys where they like to receive it, but to stick to that alone is such a stilted way to approach offense that it always ends up stagnating sooner or later, especially since Rondo doesn't really like to drive a lot and take contact. There's no mixing things up under Doc's system, except that now he might not have a choice.

Bradley, Lee, and Barbosa, and probably Green, are capable cutters.

Sully, and to a lesser extent Pierce and Green, and even KG still sometimes, can post.

Barbosa and Lee can take the ball to the rim, and we've seen Green do this too.

Variation is key to keeping a defense on its heels, but variation is mighty scarce in Doc's system.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: ScoobyDoo on January 29, 2013, 04:59:55 PM
Agreed rocknroll
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: LooseCannon on January 29, 2013, 06:34:40 PM
I was surprised how little we post up. 

Sully: 12-for-28 (42.9%)
Green:  15-for-54 (27.8%)
KG:  81-for-180 (45.0%)

That's 262 combined shot attempts, or about 6 post-up attempts per game for those three.  I think part of the reason we post-up relatively rarely is because our spacing has been terrible this year.  Additionally, it's just not a strength of a lot of our players; KG is our best player down low, but he doesn't like playing there.

Can someone provide context by supplying numbers for how much other teams are posting up this season and how much the Celtics have posted up in previous seasons?
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: LarBrd33 on January 29, 2013, 06:44:21 PM
Mainly because rondo can't shoot.  You need to surround rondo with jump shooting big men who can open up the middle for rondo drives
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: kg is king on January 29, 2013, 06:51:22 PM
KG will not be able to make it through an entire season if he posts up often. His body won't be able to take the extra pounding and punishment that often times result from posting up.  KG, due to his physical limitations, has redefined his game by being a jump shooter with the occasional post up.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: CelticsFan9 on January 29, 2013, 07:10:59 PM
1.  We have no players willing to post up, other than Sully.

2.  Doc doesn't run plays for Sully, other than the occasional PNP or PNR (even rarer).

3.  Whoops, that's all we know.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 29, 2013, 09:16:02 PM
I don't mind an occasional post up play, but personally I'm not in love with playing post up basketball for a large percentage of the offense. 

I find it ironic that folks complain so much about how stagnant the offense is when Rondo is "pounding the ball" at the top of the key, but seem to be overlooking the fact that going to a guy in the low post and clearing out and letting him go to work generally tends to result in fairly stagnant offense as well. 

I remember that being a fairly consistent complaint when we had Big Al in town. 
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: BballTim on January 29, 2013, 09:28:38 PM
Mainly because rondo can't shoot.  You need to surround rondo with jump shooting big men who can open up the middle for rondo drives

  I'm guessing you missed all the games that Shaq and Perk were on the Celts. Too bad, we played some good ball at the time.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: syfy9 on January 29, 2013, 09:31:32 PM
Mainly because rondo can't shoot.  You need to surround rondo with jump shooting big men who can open up the middle for rondo drives

Rondo can shoot, this season. He was one of the best mid range jump shot shooters in the NBA.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: CelticConcourse on January 29, 2013, 09:32:47 PM
Mainly because rondo can't shoot.  You need to surround rondo with jump shooting big men who can open up the middle for rondo drives

Rondo can shoot, this season. He was one of the best mid range jump shot shooters in the NBA.

Then there are ALL jump shooters on this team... Bass, Bradley, Lee, Terry Pierce, Garnett, Green.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: ScoobyDoo on January 29, 2013, 09:37:21 PM
I'm not for driving it into the post all night - but every 2nd or 3rd time down the floor I'd like to get Sully, Pierce or Garnett into the post for a quick look, run some cutters by them, then kick it out if nothings happening.

But we have Sully, that's his strength - I'd at least give it a little more look. And he's a good passer as well.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: nickagneta on January 29, 2013, 09:47:49 PM
I'm not for driving it into the post all night - but every 2nd or 3rd time down the floor I'd like to get Sully, Pierce or Garnett into the post for a quick look, run some cutters by them, then kick it out if nothings happening.

But we have Sully, that's his strength - I'd at least give it a little more look. And he's a good passer as well.
This team's biggest weakness is a lack of a post game and players willing to drive into the lane.

I agree. I would love to see this team do what you are suggesting and to start taking advantage of Sully's post game.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Onslaught on January 29, 2013, 11:49:49 PM
I don't mind an occasional post up play, but personally I'm not in love with playing post up basketball for a large percentage of the offense. 

I find it ironic that folks complain so much about how stagnant the offense is when Rondo is "pounding the ball" at the top of the key, but seem to be overlooking the fact that going to a guy in the low post and clearing out and letting him go to work generally tends to result in fairly stagnant offense as well. 

I remember that being a fairly consistent complaint when we had Big Al in town.
But.... but..... someone else would be pounding the ball other then that overrated Rondo!!!!!

sarcasm by the way.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 29, 2013, 11:56:36 PM
I don't mind an occasional post up play, but personally I'm not in love with playing post up basketball for a large percentage of the offense. 

I find it ironic that folks complain so much about how stagnant the offense is when Rondo is "pounding the ball" at the top of the key, but seem to be overlooking the fact that going to a guy in the low post and clearing out and letting him go to work generally tends to result in fairly stagnant offense as well. 

I remember that being a fairly consistent complaint when we had Big Al in town.
But.... but..... someone else would be pounding the ball other then that overrated Rondo!!!!!

sarcasm by the way.

Whether you are a post up team, an isolation team, a pick and roll team, a running guys off off the ball screens (we do a little bit of all those things) team, pounding the ball happens in the NBA.  I challenge someone to show me an NBA team where the ball is consistently moving at all times and never sticking in one player's hands for the better part of a shot clock in the half court offense. 
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Onslaught on January 30, 2013, 12:00:12 AM
I don't mind an occasional post up play, but personally I'm not in love with playing post up basketball for a large percentage of the offense. 

I find it ironic that folks complain so much about how stagnant the offense is when Rondo is "pounding the ball" at the top of the key, but seem to be overlooking the fact that going to a guy in the low post and clearing out and letting him go to work generally tends to result in fairly stagnant offense as well. 

I remember that being a fairly consistent complaint when we had Big Al in town.
But.... but..... someone else would be pounding the ball other then that overrated Rondo!!!!!

sarcasm by the way.

Whether you are a post up team, an isolation team, a pick and roll team, a running guys off off the ball screens (we do a little bit of all those things) team, pounding the ball happens in the NBA.  I challenge someone to show me an NBA team where the ball is consistently moving at all times and never sticking in one player's hands for the better part of a shot clock in the half court offense.
Oh, I agree with you 100%. I was just making fun of all the Rondo bashers here now.
Title: Re: Why don't we post up more?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 30, 2013, 12:03:34 AM
I don't mind an occasional post up play, but personally I'm not in love with playing post up basketball for a large percentage of the offense. 

I find it ironic that folks complain so much about how stagnant the offense is when Rondo is "pounding the ball" at the top of the key, but seem to be overlooking the fact that going to a guy in the low post and clearing out and letting him go to work generally tends to result in fairly stagnant offense as well. 

I remember that being a fairly consistent complaint when we had Big Al in town.
But.... but..... someone else would be pounding the ball other then that overrated Rondo!!!!!

sarcasm by the way.

Whether you are a post up team, an isolation team, a pick and roll team, a running guys off off the ball screens (we do a little bit of all those things) team, pounding the ball happens in the NBA.  I challenge someone to show me an NBA team where the ball is consistently moving at all times and never sticking in one player's hands for the better part of a shot clock in the half court offense.
Oh, I agree with you 100%. I was just making fun of all the Rondo bashers here now.

Oh, I got that.  I wasn't arguing with you.  I was just adding to your point.