CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: kgainez on January 28, 2013, 05:19:51 PM
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Point blank question--moreso from the likes of it being a 'turning point'. Don't be a smart alec and say it matters because it's a W lol. And feel free to share your reasoning!
For me, I think Yes and I think it can definitely be a potential turning point. This team was built to beat Miami. It's something that was branded in their heads from the jump. Something the team has been more than open about. They want to beat Miami.
Our very first game was against Miami and you could tell the team was hyped up, they just couldn't find the way to win. And I think ever since then they've never had the confidence they've needed or wanted. None of the other games really MATTERED to them because it wasn't Miami. The OKC win was probably nice...but they're not the defending champs who took Ray.
I think this win is a confidence booster and has them on the right track. They now know they are capable of beating the enemy and the idea from here on out is to show we KNOW we can bang with anyone. Even without Rondo.
Thoughts?
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If you're extremely naive sure. Any team in the NBA can beat any team on any given day. As far as the big picture no, this game meant absolutely nothing.
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It meant everything, especially since our players didn't even know Rondo was out!
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It meant everything, especially since our players didn't even know Rondo was out!
Actually it would have meant more if they actually knew he was out for good. Explain to me how this win meant everything. What exactly is going to happen now since the celtics managed to beat miami once in a regular season game?
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If you're extremely naive sure. Any team in the NBA can beat any team on any given day. As far as the big picture no, this game meant absolutely nothing.
I get that. But you also have to see the symbolism, no?
We beat our Atlantic Division rival without Rondo. This was a playoff atmosphere.
We beat our Eastern Conference rival without Rondo. One could argue, this was also a playoff atmosphere.
I think it's dangerous to just take that in stride.
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Nope
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The day, itself, was a turning point since it was when we found out this team will be without Rondo for the rest of the season.
For the actual game? No, I don't think its a turning point. This team is going to continue to have its struggles and I don't expect them to rip off a 10 game winning streak or anything.
It was a great win but I'm not taking too much out of it other than, that given day, they could be the defending world champs. In the NBA, that's not really that surprising in the regular season.
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One think I loved seeing was the defensive pressure applied by Bradley on the PG, Lee on the SG and Green on the SF, when all 3 of these players were on the floor together.
With Rondo gone, we will see those 3 players in those roles more often.
AS to a direct answer to the original post, all the win proves is that the C's can win big games without Rondo. Can they do it over half a season? We'll see.
My money says the Celtics will rally together with a chip on their shoulder, and win about half their remaining games - baring another major injury.
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Not especially. I think it was an indicator that this team still has pride and the ability to grit out the occasional game where they're outmatched in terms of talent. I don't think it means anything with regards to our chances of doing it in a seven-game series.
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Yes, it means something. It means that the Celtics can play winning basketball, even without Rondo, provided a renewed commitment to defense and collective execution.
No, it's not the turning point of the season. The injury to Rondo is.
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It means that every once in a while, these old champions can get up for a big game.
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1. It was a testament to all the things that make Doc Rivers a good coach. A 6 game losing streak with multiple heartbreaking defeats. No Rondo. Playing against the best player on Earth. And while Miami played down to the level of competition in the first half, they turned up the intensity in the 2nd and a lot of teams would have folded. This one didn't and that's largely credit to Doc.
2. As good as Rondo is, he clearly is at the heart of some of the team's problems. His spotty perimeter defense and the basic struggle that Doc wants to run a halfcourt game for Pierce and KG while Rondo needs to be running up and down the court are issues that probably can't be fixed until KG, Pierce and maybe Doc are gone.
3. Miami is not the super-team they were supposed to be. Not even close. Oh, they might win another title or two, but they ain't winning 6 like Jordan's Bulls or 4 like Duncan's Spurs.
Mike
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I do think the win against Miami yesterday means something. The one thing that absolutely impressed me the most and gave me the most hope was Jeff Green's defense against Lebron James.
Despite losing Rondo, that game showed me that we still match up pretty well against the Heat.
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It means something. It means the Celtics can win against a top team, but they knew that. It means they can win without Rondo, but they knew that, too.
However, I think it points to *how* they can win games. How they will *have* to play to win games against top teams. If they learn that lesson, take it to heart, that game could mean a lot. What it didn't tell us, or them, is if they can keep playing that style, giving that effort, game after game. Time will tell if they have finally heard Doc when he says "You can't win easy, you have to work hard, play hard, to win."
Turning point in the season? Who knows, but remember this team just played the Knicks to the last possession before losing, the Hawks to double overtime before losing...and in just as hard fought a game beat the Heat. That's a three game streak of effort, make it four, then five, then six...and maybe the team will have turned around.
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It means something. It means the Celtics can win against a top team, but they knew that. It means they can win without Rondo, but they knew that, too.
However, I think it points to *how* they can win games. How they will *have* to play to win games against top teams. If they learn that lesson, take it to heart, that game could mean a lot. What it didn't tell us, or them, is if they can keep playing that style, giving that effort, game after game. Time will tell if they have finally heard Doc when he says "You can't win easy, you have to work hard, play hard, to win."
Turning point in the season? Who knows, but remember this team just played the Knicks to the last possession before losing, the Hawks to double overtime before losing...and in just as hard fought a game beat the Heat. That's a three game streak of effort, make it four, then five, then six...and maybe the team will have turned around.
that's true, though the Hawks game was a bit of a what in the world type of story.
the bulls game, too. was a lot of effort.
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Nope, it is regular season and I am sure our guys were up to show Ray. If you can't get up playing the HEAT your dead, period no pulse.
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Miami had a very good game, and we had a better one.
We can beat 'em in the playoffs without Rondo.
Uh-huh.
Yep.
We can do it.
If a win against Miami playing well means nothing, then we got a problem.
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Miami had a very good game, and we had a better one.
We can beat 'em in the playoffs without Rondo.
Uh-huh.
Yep.
We can do it.
If a win against Miami playing well means nothing, then we got a problem.
+1...I agree with this.
cHeat did not take us lightly. They never will with KG/Pierce on the team and Judas on their team.
National TV, they wanted this game bad.
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Nope, it is regular season and I am sure our guys were up to show Ray. If you can't get up playing the HEAT your dead, period no pulse.
I disagree. I think the very first game of the season they wanted to show up Ray. Lots of chucking. Not much defense.Trying to style on the Heat.
This time we played good solid basketball. And honestly, without some lucky shots, they wouldn't have taken us to regulation. And you can find a moral victory in that.
But after 2 2OT's, they found a way to win. I don't see how that's not SOMEWHAT significant.
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Nope, it is regular season and I am sure our guys were up to show Ray. If you can't get up playing the HEAT your dead, period no pulse.
I disagree. I think the very first game of the season they wanted to show up Ray. Lots of chucking. Not much defense.Trying to style on the Heat.
This time we played good solid basketball. And honestly, without some lucky shots, they wouldn't have taken us to regulation. And you can find a moral victory in that.
But after 2 2OT's, they found a way to win. I don't see how that's not SOMEWHAT significant.
We played as solid as we did against the Thunder and Knicks. Notice how these games coincide with Jeff Green playing great too!
But it was 58 minutes of solid basketball.
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Yep, it means one "W" in the standings.
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Means absolutely nothing...can't beat them in a 7 game series and I thought they played down to us not having our best player and the Celts were giving their best thinking rondo would be back in no time....happens all the time in the nba..it was like us going into Cleveland and playing down to the competition while they were giving their all for some sort of statement win
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Means absolutely nothing...can't beat them in a 7 game series and I thought they played down to us not having our best player and the Celts were giving their best thinking rondo would be back in no time....happens all the time in the nba..it was like us going into Cleveland and playing down to the competition while they were giving their all for some sort of statement win
I get that. Our team was hyped, and they played a high emotion game and pulled the upset. Nothing to get excited about.
On the hand, there might be something to get excited about. This team was built this year very specifically with the Miami Heat in mind. The key for us in a seven game series will be the ability to match up with their small ball. I think that we've got the ability to give them a run for their money with Pierce and Green together at the forwards, and a couple of athletic, up-tempo, defensive minded guards. Also, Kevin Garnett is a poor matchup for them on the interior.
We can definitely give them some trouble. Sure, we lost our best player, but we still have two guys who are capable of playing the game at very, very high levels. I was optimistic before Rondo went down. Part of my optimism was based on the expectation that Pierce and KG would play like the superstars that they are once the post-season rolls around. Rondo is our best player, but I never expected him to do it alone.
Give me the Heat in the first round and let's see what happens.
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my optimism was based on the expectation that Pierce and KG would play like the superstars that they are once the post-season rolls around
**were. They are only stars now, at best. We will need more from Lee, Bradley, Green, Bass, Terry, Wilcox, Barbosa, Collins.
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I do think the team was constructed with Miami (and to a lesser extent OKC) in mind.
However, without Rondo, that whole plan is out the window. We aren't beating Miami in a 7 game series without Rondo. Nobody else on the team has the ability to step up and win 2 games in a playoff series by themselves anymore. That's what you need to beat the best teams. The Celtics used to have 3-4 guys who could do that. Without Rondo, they have none.
Even if they could beat Miami, I think they'd get beaten up inside over the course of a series by a healthy, young, big team like the Bulls. I wouldn't feel very good about their chances against the Knicks or Nets in a series, either.
I think an objective assessment of this team will arrive at the conclusion that it's headed for a first round exit, except maybe against Indiana, Milwaukee, or Atlanta -- but again, those are the weakest teams and yet they match up well with the Celtics.
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No.
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I do think the team was constructed with Miami (and to a lesser extent OKC) in mind.
However, without Rondo, that whole plan is out the window. We aren't beating Miami in a 7 game series without Rondo. Nobody else on the team has the ability to step up and win 2 games in a playoff series by themselves anymore. That's what you need to beat the best teams. The Celtics used to have 3-4 guys who could do that. Without Rondo, they have none.
Even if they could beat Miami, I think they'd get beaten up inside over the course of a series by a healthy, young, big team like the Bulls. I wouldn't feel very good about their chances against the Knicks or Nets in a series, either.
I think an objective assessment of this team will arrive at the conclusion that it's headed for a first round exit, except maybe against Indiana, Milwaukee, or Atlanta -- but again, those are the weakest teams and yet they match up well with the Celtics.
I actually think we match up well with the Knicks for some of the same reasons that I think we match up well with Miami. They also rely on playing one of the best scoring small forwards in the league big minutes at the four position. A front line of Pierce, Green, and Garnett are our ace in the hole against Miami and New York's lineups.
There are definitely teams out there where it won't work so well, but, to me, Jeff at the four is the key to our success right now.
Small ball, baby!!
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I do think the team was constructed with Miami (and to a lesser extent OKC) in mind.
However, without Rondo, that whole plan is out the window. We aren't beating Miami in a 7 game series without Rondo. Nobody else on the team has the ability to step up and win 2 games in a playoff series by themselves anymore. That's what you need to beat the best teams. The Celtics used to have 3-4 guys who could do that. Without Rondo, they have none.
Even if they could beat Miami, I think they'd get beaten up inside over the course of a series by a healthy, young, big team like the Bulls. I wouldn't feel very good about their chances against the Knicks or Nets in a series, either.
I think an objective assessment of this team will arrive at the conclusion that it's headed for a first round exit, except maybe against Indiana, Milwaukee, or Atlanta -- but again, those are the weakest teams and yet they match up well with the Celtics.
Whenever i see your name i know you're getting ready to say some truth rather we like it or not, respect. I still can't believe we lost game 2 last year. Rondo took that game over and we STILL couldn't beat miami. When lebron did the same thing against us in game 6 the game wasn't even close......
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It means the same that a lose against Cleveland Means