CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: BleedGreen1989 on January 28, 2013, 11:20:19 AM
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Marc Stein made it a hot topic today. I don't think it is worth it to make that sort of trade. With the value Tor gave up to get him, we are not landing Kyle without moving Bradley or Sullinger.
Thoughts?
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This team with Lowry, would be a better team than they were with Rondo IMO. Lowry can shoot, finish, and dish. He's very good. The only thing he's really lacking is amazing speed. Not sure what it would take to get him though.
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I could be wrong, but I had the impression that he could be had for significantly less than that.
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Marc Stein made it a hot topic today. I don't think it is worth it to make that sort of trade. With the value Tor gave up to get him, we are not landing Kyle without moving Bradley or Sullinger.
Thoughts?
If it costs anyone, it costs Bradley, and to that I say nayyy.
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No he's not worth it, not with Rondo on the roster.
We'd have to give up a pick and/or Sullinger/Bradley to get him and the team needs all the young assets it has going forward.
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I say no. Especially for a 4 month rental. His contract is only 1 mil guaranteed next year. When Rondo comes back, Lowry he may or may not be a good trade asset. He value talent wise might be good, but he would also be moving to yet ANOTHER team which might scare folks away.
It wouldnt be worth it to give up Lee or Sully for 4 months of Lowry, then having to pay him 6 mil as a back up or risk losing him for nothing.
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It really depends what we have to give up. I don't think you trade Sully or Bradley for him, but if he can be had by trading a first and taking on one of their bad deals like Landry Fields, I probably do it.
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I could be wrong, but I had the impression that he could be had for significantly less than that.
I agree. Calderon is their starter and they are committed to him for some strange reason even though Lowry is a better player. Maybe he could be had for less.
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Marc Stein made it a hot topic today. I don't think it is worth it to make that sort of trade. With the value Tor gave up to get him, we are not landing Kyle without moving Bradley or Sullinger.
Thoughts?
Three team deal
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What did Stien say? I thought about it yesterday. I mean if they decided to try and get him then look at it this way. He comes in and is a better shooter than Rondo, and a pretty decent rebounder. He could fill a role while Rondo is out. His contract expires after next season as well. He could be here until Rondo comes back and either A. Be his backup or B. Be a trade asset at the deadline next year. OR C. Be an expiring contract.
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I want him! He's a legend...
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I would deal Bradley for Lowry. How many shooting guards do we need? We already have Terry, Lee and Barbosa. I know Avery is better than those 3 but we need a point guard right now.
You have to give to get, unfortunately.
Now if I had to give up Sullinger, then I would say no.
Sullinger I think is very valuable as he's also a big.
If that was the case, I'd rather go by a PG committee of AB, Lee and Terry.
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Marc Stein made it a hot topic today. I don't think it is worth it to make that sort of trade. With the value Tor gave up to get him, we are not landing Kyle without moving Bradley or Sullinger.
Thoughts?
Three team deal
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=anf6r4m
eh???? maybe
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What did Stien say? I thought about it yesterday. I mean if they decided to try and get him then look at it this way. He comes in and is a better shooter than Rondo, and a pretty decent rebounder. He could fill a role while Rondo is out. His contract expires after next season as well. He could be here until Rondo comes back and either A. Be his backup or B. Be a trade asset at the deadline next year. OR C. Be an expiring contract.
Lowry is a 42% shooter for his career. This season he has done better with the three ball at 38% but is only shooting 41.7% from the field. Give me Rondo any day over Lowry.
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Adrian Wojnarowski : "Kyle Lowry is not a solution, he creates problems everywhere he goes "
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I don't think Toronto would have much interest in Jared Sullinger or Avery Bradley.
I think it would be future draft picks, multiple picks, that Toronto would be after.
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When Rondo comes back, Lowry he may or may not be a good trade asset. He value talent wise might be good, but he would also be moving to yet ANOTHER team which might scare folks away.
I don't think anyone will be bothered by Lowry being traded because Rondo came back.
Lowry will get a pass on that one.
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What did Stien say? I thought about it yesterday. I mean if they decided to try and get him then look at it this way. He comes in and is a better shooter than Rondo, and a pretty decent rebounder. He could fill a role while Rondo is out. His contract expires after next season as well. He could be here until Rondo comes back and either A. Be his backup or B. Be a trade asset at the deadline next year. OR C. Be an expiring contract.
Lowry is a 42% shooter for his career. This season he has done better with the three ball at 38% but is only shooting 41.7% from the field. Give me Rondo any day over Lowry.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=rondora01&y1=2013&p2=lowryky01&y2=2013
If you look at the stats, they've got very similar advanced numbers, and Lowry's career TS% is substantially higher. Obviously Rondo's assists are higher, but Lowry has over his career been the better scorer.
Then, if by some grace of statistics we could only compare them as starters over the past 2.5 years, Lowry would likely compare very favorably with Rondo. Better scoring, better or at the very least comparable, defense, slightly better rebounding, and worse passing.
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What did Stien say? I thought about it yesterday. I mean if they decided to try and get him then look at it this way. He comes in and is a better shooter than Rondo, and a pretty decent rebounder. He could fill a role while Rondo is out. His contract expires after next season as well. He could be here until Rondo comes back and either A. Be his backup or B. Be a trade asset at the deadline next year. OR C. Be an expiring contract.
Lowry is a 42% shooter for his career. This season he has done better with the three ball at 38% but is only shooting 41.7% from the field. Give me Rondo any day over Lowry.
Please don't take my words as saying i would rather have Lowry over Rondo. Its not even close. But as of right now i would take him. He could get some decent looks from 3 on this team and probably be able to knock them down. But do not make it seem like i would rather him over rondo. Not in a million years.
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Adrian Wojnarowski : "Kyle Lowry is not a solution, he creates problems everywhere he goes "
He's certainly starting to get that reputation.
But I tell you, if he can stay healthy, I bet Lowry plays inspired basketball the rest of the year if he's traded to us. He seems like a guy who plays better when A) The starting gig is not in contention, and B) when he has a chip on his shoulder. Both things are virtual certitudes for the rest of the season if he gets acquired by the Celtics.
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Adrian Wojnarowski : "Kyle Lowry is not a solution, he creates problems everywhere he goes "
He's certainly starting to get that reputation.
But I tell you, if he can stay healthy, I bet Lowry plays inspired basketball the rest of the year if he's traded to us. He seems like a guy who plays better when A) The starting gig is not in contention, and B) when he has a chip on his shoulder. Both things are virtual certitudes for the rest of the season if he gets acquired by the Celtics.
True, plus he would be in his contract year so maybe he could pull a Bass like last year. Not giving up Sully or Bradley for a guy with that reputation though . Danny already said he doesn't want to give up picks.
So that leaves you with Lee, Bass or Terry for Lowry and I don't think Toronto would do it .
I would give up Lee and a 2nd for him, but that's about it .
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I would deal Bradley for Lowry. How many shooting guards do we need? We already have Terry, Lee and Barbosa. I know Avery is better than those 3 but we need a point guard right now.
Keeping Bradley and plucking a PG from the D-League and giving him 20 mpg would be better than trading Bradley for Lowry.
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I don't think Toronto would have much interest in Jared Sullinger or Avery Bradley.
I think it would be future draft picks, multiple picks, that Toronto would be after.
Yeah I don't think its worth it. You're banking that you can get a lot of value out of either Lowry/Rondo next year to regain the assets you'd have to give up to get him.
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I am happy to trade Bradley for Lowry.
And I am happy to use Lowry as a trade asset during the summer to pick up a different piece to put alongside Rondo. I do not think Lowry's trade value is going to be any worse than Bradley's at that point.
I also think Lowry could be a pretty lethal 30 minute a night backup combo guard alongside Rondo. Those two pushing the ball together and applying pressure defensively would be a pretty amazing sight. But I'd rather trade Lowry than keep him once Rondo returns. Even if it works well on the court, I think Lowry would leave the following summer for a starting gig elsewhere.
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I don't think Toronto would have much interest in Jared Sullinger or Avery Bradley.
I think it would be future draft picks, multiple picks, that Toronto would be after.
Yeah I don't think its worth it. You're banking that you can get a lot of value out of either Lowry/Rondo next year to regain the assets you'd have to give up to get him.
Yeah, I would be very worried about giving up future picks given the uncertain medium to long term future of this team. So many old guys playing key roles.
Maybe Danny can make a nice quick turnaround with cap space as Pierce/Garnett leave. Then again, maybe he won't be able to. Maybe those picks turn out to be very valuable and important to long term rebuilding.
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I also think that Toronto would much rather an established player than prospects / picks for Kyle Lowry. Bryan Colangelo is under a lot of pressure there in Toronto given his poor job of building the team up since joining the team. He desperately wants to win now. He doesn't want to prolong this rebuilding process.
So if anyone comes in with a talented young veteran, I think that team will be the frontrunner to land Lowry. I don't think Boston can be that team unless Bryan Colangelo is really high on Jeff Green. Green is the only guy here who fits that profile.
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I am happy to trade Bradley for Lowry.
And I am happy to use Lowry as a trade asset during the summer to pick up a different piece to put alongside Rondo. I do not think Lowry's trade value is going to be any worse than Bradley's at that point.
I also think Lowry could be a pretty lethal 30 minute a night backup combo guard alongside Rondo. Those two pushing the ball together and applying pressure defensively would be a pretty amazing sight. But I'd rather trade Lowry than keep him once Rondo returns. Even if it works well on the court, I think Lowry would leave the following summer for a starting gig elsewhere.
I think I could be in this camp as well. I think Lowry is better than Bradley and I like what Lee gives us in the Bradley role anyway.
I wouldnt prefer to keep Lowry and Rondo together but it could be worse. Lowry could be a good trade asset unless teams start seeing him as a problem child, then we might be stuck with him or get low return for him.
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Adrian Wojnarowski : "Kyle Lowry is not a solution, he creates problems everywhere he goes "
That might be true, but I think it is worth at least accounting for the mentality and existing atmosphere in the Celtics lockerroom. I'd argue that Lowry has been on some rather less structured teams (Grizzlies prior to their prominence, treadmill Houston).
Additionally, hasn't he always been in situations where his position as a starter has been questioned. In Memphis it was him and Conley, Houston him and Dragic, and now it's Calderon (I'm not saying this is not a knock on Lowry, as it could indicate an issues with either talent, focus or stamina/resilience).
Given the exisiting structure of the Celtics lockerrom, with very established and respected leaders (Pierce, KG, and Rondo (injured or not, his leadership ability should not be underestimated)), I at least would not hesitate bringing Lowry in. But I guess that is founded on a belief that trading Pierce, or KG, would be heartbreaking and detrimental to the franchise in the long run.
I'm not sure the Raptors would bite on a trade like this (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aktos2q), or if they need Bradley/Sully to be included. We should probably add a first to balance it out. Also, I'd be intrigued to see Fields with a bunch of capable players again, I think he could be a pretty good rotation player here, although his contract is pretty hefty.
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(Thanks for moving this into the thread, apologies for not seeing the original thread in the first place) I think Lowry would be a great fit for this Celtics team. Here is why:
He is not a ball dominant PG, which would let the Celtics run different, creative offensive sets, instead of forcing someone like Pierce be a playmaker. Rondo was a great playmaker, but now that he is done for the year, the offense has to and will change (Doc said so himself). Lowry is a smart passer and plays with a high bball iq. He is also a very strong rebounder for a guard. Not as good as Rondo, but nonetheless, a very above average rebounder. He also plays above average defense. He has improved so much since first coming into the league from Villanova.
This team doesn't need another PG who will put up double digit assist numbers. That will not fit the offense that they are going to start running post Rondo. They just need someone to fit into the offense and stabilize the point guard position.
The knock on Lowry is that he must be tough to coach. He asked out of Memphis, then asked out of Houston and now Toronto (who gave up a lotto pick to get him) wants to move him over Calderon. I don't really know whats going on behind the scenes, if he is a diva type or what. *Cliche line coming...* I think the Celtic culture will keep him in line and he will buy into what Doc/KG/PP are selling.
The question is, what does Toronto want? They don't need Bass when they have Big V, Ed Davis and Amir Johnson up front. They don't want Lee, since they just gave their 2-guard, Derozan, 40+ million...I don't think its worth moving AB or Sully (again, not sure how much Toronto wants either of those guys, considering the logjam in the front court, and the investment already made in Derozan). Besides offering Fab, a 1st I don't know what it would take for Toronto to bite.
Ideally they would take Bass along with Melo, and a first, but I don't see it happening unless a third team gets involved. What do others think of Lowry, his fit with the C's and what it would take to get him in Boston?
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Yuck!
Can't stand Lowry. Overrated malcontent.
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Does anyone think the C's should trade Rondo for Lowry and one or two of their young guys (Valanciunas, Ed Davis, Terrence Ross, etc.)? I'm not sure myself, but I think it's something to consider. Rondo's shooting has not improved much and still causes a lot of problems at the end of games with spacing. As impressive as Rondo's stats have been, we haven't been as successful since he's become the main guy, and we haven't been a good offensive team. Rondo also depends a lot on his quickness, and who knows how quick he'll be when he returns? I think if we could get a very good point guard in Lowry and two promising young guys (say, Valanciunas and Ross) that could end up being a steal for us. As for Toronto, its obviously risky to trade for a guy who tore his ACL, but they may be interested because Rondo is a young star they could build around. Free agents don't exactly flock to Toronto and they aren't quite bad enough to have a good chance at a top pick. They might see this as a chance to get a true star at a bargain price. Thoughts?
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Kyle Lowery? Looks like Toronto may be shopping Lowery as ESPN.com is reporting and Celtics may be interesed. I always like him. Question is what would it take to get him? They have Calderon so they set at PG.
But we also need a center badly.