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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: csfansince60s on January 26, 2013, 02:27:40 PM

Title: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: csfansince60s on January 26, 2013, 02:27:40 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225799/Rival_Execs_Speculate_About_Rudy_Gay_Ending_Up_With_Lakers

"The Boston Celtics have held exploratory trade talks with the Memphis Grizzlies on Rudy Gay.

More than one team has speculated that a three-way trade that would send Pau Gasol to the Celtics, Paul Pierce to the Grizzlies and Rudy Gay to the Lakers makes "some sense".

Pierce's $15.3 million salary for next season is guaranteed for only $5 million, which would make his contract tradable."

Via Marc Stein/ESPN

Some of us have advocated for a Paul for Pau trade. This is even better if it becomes a reality.

1. Fakers don't get Pierce.

2. We get the multi-talented big we need with assets to make another trade for a shooter, if need be.

3.Grizz get $$$ relief for next year and a champion for their quest in the West.

Anybody in?
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 26, 2013, 02:30:02 PM
We're not trading Pierce so that Ainge can help the Lakers land Gay.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 02:31:52 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Spicoli on January 26, 2013, 02:31:59 PM
Good trade for Boston. Gasol would be our number 1 option, running the entire offense through him (he is a great passer). He's still got it, he is just stuck in a system that doesn't fit, in LA. I would then flip Rondo and Terry for Lowry, Pietrus, Davis and a pick.

Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: CelticConcourse on January 26, 2013, 02:33:17 PM
Bad. I heard it was deemed false and it seems very unlikely
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 26, 2013, 02:33:51 PM
we would be a worse team overall. Pau is very slow. its not all about height, those obsessed with height will like that trade, but pierce is 10 times more talented than pau. how many times has pau dropped 40 pts on a team recently?
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: gpap on January 26, 2013, 02:34:12 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.

TOTALLY disagree. Pierce looks awful. Gasol and KG down low would be deadly together. I would've made this trade yesterday and twice the day before.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Kane3387 on January 26, 2013, 02:35:06 PM
I think a Gay for Pierce trade is becoming more real every day. Just a feeling I have.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 02:35:16 PM
Terrific deal for LA. Whoever gets Gay wins the deal.

Pau and Pierce are old guys. Gay is a long term building block.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: csfansince60s on January 26, 2013, 02:36:09 PM
Bad. I heard it was deemed false and it seems very unlikely

Source?...thanks
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Evantime34 on January 26, 2013, 02:40:44 PM
Bad. I heard it was deemed false and it seems very unlikely

Source?...thanks
Source is Marc Stein in the weekend dime
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130125-26/nba-scouts-saying-now

"So it's premature, to me, to throw Pierce's name up there with Rudy Gay and Pau Gasol on the list of high-profile names available this trade season, even though we've heard more than one rival team speculate -- given that the Celtics and Grizzlies, sources say, have indeed held some exploratory trade talks since Gay hit the market -- that a three-way deal where Pierce lands in Memphis, Gasol goes to Boston and Gay joins the Lakers makes "some sense.""
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 02:43:08 PM
Lakers trying to add a young star in Rudy Gay to go along with Dwight Howard.

Building the foundation for the next 5-8 years of title-contention post Kobe Bryant.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: CelticConcourse on January 26, 2013, 02:46:09 PM
Lakers trying to add a young star in Rudy Gay to go along with Dwight Howard.

Building the foundation for the next 5-8 years of title-contention post Kobe Bryant.

Apart from the fact that Gay ain't no star.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: wiley on January 26, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
I think this improves our chances this year and extends our window a bit. We just can't get into the paint anymore.  This would help.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: JHTruth on January 26, 2013, 02:47:32 PM
I'd trade PP straight up for Gay. Gay and Green on the wings Rondo Bradley at PG. A man can dream right? Plus a future FC of Sully, Melo, and Oden? Well while we're dreaming.  :D
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: lantinm on January 26, 2013, 02:48:03 PM
I wouldn't even touch this deal.  Pierce > Gasol.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Evantime34 on January 26, 2013, 03:02:14 PM
I would want a first too but I would consider that.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: csfansince60s on January 26, 2013, 03:07:09 PM
Bad. I heard it was deemed false and it seems very unlikely

Source?...thanks
Source is Marc Stein in the weekend dime
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130125-26/nba-scouts-saying-now

"So it's premature, to me, to throw Pierce's name up there with Rudy Gay and Pau Gasol on the list of high-profile names available this trade season, even though we've heard more than one rival team speculate -- given that the Celtics and Grizzlies, sources say, have indeed held some exploratory trade talks since Gay hit the market -- that a three-way deal where Pierce lands in Memphis, Gasol goes to Boston and Gay joins the Lakers makes "some sense.""

Evantime, thanks for the source, but that was the same source I referenced in the OP.

What I was asking was the source to the claim that:

"I heard it was deemed false and it seems very unlikely."


Thanks again, though. TP
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: ssspence on January 26, 2013, 03:08:04 PM
No way. Getting Gay makes more sense.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: gpap on January 26, 2013, 03:12:41 PM
I think this makes sense for the Celtics and Lakers. I just still can't wrap my head around why the Grizzlies would trade one of their best players for a 35 year old SF on the downward slope of his career.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Evantime34 on January 26, 2013, 03:18:54 PM
Bad. I heard it was deemed false and it seems very unlikely

Source?...thanks
Source is Marc Stein in the weekend dime
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130125-26/nba-scouts-saying-now

"So it's premature, to me, to throw Pierce's name up there with Rudy Gay and Pau Gasol on the list of high-profile names available this trade season, even though we've heard more than one rival team speculate -- given that the Celtics and Grizzlies, sources say, have indeed held some exploratory trade talks since Gay hit the market -- that a three-way deal where Pierce lands in Memphis, Gasol goes to Boston and Gay joins the Lakers makes "some sense.""

Evantime, thanks for the source, but that was the same source I referenced in the OP.

What I was asking was the source to the claim that:

"I heard it was deemed false and it seems very unlikely."


Thanks again, though. TP
Oh, well Stein can't give up his scout source otherwise that scout would get fired and he would no longer have a source.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: gpap on January 26, 2013, 03:22:48 PM
I wonder if the Grizzlies would agree to this? They get more athletic and the Celtics get a viable PG in return and a legit big. Doubtful.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aq8e3c2
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: LarBrd33 on January 26, 2013, 03:30:17 PM
Lakers trying to add a young star in Rudy Gay to go along with Dwight Howard.

Building the foundation for the next 5-8 years of title-contention post Kobe Bryant.

Apart from the fact that Gay ain't no star.

Yeah right now if you were rank them it would go:

#1 - (Healthy) Pau
#2 - Pierce
#3 - Gay

... Gay is aiight... good player.  Clearly he's younger, but beyond that the other two are better right now. 

I also think adding Pau by subracting Pierce actually does make us a significantly better team... not because Pau is that much better than Pierce it's just simply what our roster looks like right now.  It's a mess right now.  Our 4th best player (Jeff Green) sits on our bench, our PF is playing out of position at center and we're starting a backup next to him.

PG - Rondo
SG - Lee
SF - Green
PF - KG
C - Pau 
.... that roster makes more sense.   Still probably not a major contender unless KG starts playing vintage ball, but Pau and KG next together would be awesome.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Kane3387 on January 26, 2013, 03:48:56 PM
Pau makes almost 3 mil more then Pierce. Does that trade work with our cap situation? Were restricted after using the MLE on Terry.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Neurotic Guy on January 26, 2013, 03:50:46 PM
PG - Rondo
SG - Lee
SF - Green
PF - KG
C - Pau 
.... that roster makes more sense.   Still probably not a major contender unless KG starts playing vintage ball, but Pau and KG next together would be awesome.

Lee starts over Bradley? 

This team looks OK but Pierce, despite his recent woes, is still the one guy on this team who can generate his own offense.  Pau can post up and pass which adds a nice dimension to the offense (and he can rebound), but we lose a lot without Pierce.  Just look at how bad we've been with 'bad Pierce'.  'Good Pierce' makes a huge difference.   If Pierce is done then this makes us much better. But I doubt Pierce is done.



Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on January 26, 2013, 03:51:00 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.

TOTALLY disagree. Pierce looks awful. Gasol and KG down low would be deadly together. I would've made this trade yesterday and twice the day before.

THIS^
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: chambers on January 26, 2013, 03:51:54 PM
I'd rather get back Zac Randolph than Gasol- aren't Memphis trying to dump his deal?
Imagine Zeebo in the paint next to KG with Rondo dishing him the ball.

We'd have two stretch bigs and one that's one of the best rebounders in the NBA.

Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 03:54:04 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.

TOTALLY disagree. Pierce looks awful. Gasol and KG down low would be deadly together. I would've made this trade yesterday and twice the day before.

THIS^

Have you guys watched Pau play recently?  He's played poorly his last two trips to the playoffs, and has been bad this year. 

Our biggest issue right now is with offense, and Pau isn't going to elevate us in that regard.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: OttawaCeltic on January 26, 2013, 03:54:54 PM
(http://www.bballmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Doc-Rivers-misses-Ray-Allen-very-much.-150x150.png)
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on January 26, 2013, 03:56:04 PM
I wouldn't even touch this deal.  Pierce > Gasol.

Current Pierce > Gasol? Whatever you're smoking ill take a dime bag.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Kane3387 on January 26, 2013, 03:57:40 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.

TOTALLY disagree. Pierce looks awful. Gasol and KG down low would be deadly together. I would've made this trade yesterday and twice the day before.

THIS^

Have you guys watched Pau play recently?  He's played poorly his last two trips to the playoffs, and has been bad this year. 

Our biggest issue right now is with offense, and Pau isn't going to elevate us in that regard.

Why not Z-Bo over Pau?

Pau to Memphis with his Bro. Pierce back home to LA. Z-Bo to Boston alongside KG.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 26, 2013, 03:57:55 PM
I'm not saying we should trade Pierce, but this proposal makes a lot of sense.

* Gay's a good player, and a good fit in Memphis, but the Grizz want to shed money. Pierce, at this point, is owed only $5M next season, so Memphis would get a three-month rental on a declining but still fairly productive (and playoff-tested) Hall of Famer to lead a squad that's relatively inexperienced in big-game situations. Plus they save big bucks next season.

* Lakers (thankfully) don't get Pierce, but they do get a good young player who, though not a top-tier player, could nonetheless help them transition to the post-Kobe era as a good complement to Dwight Howard's inside game.

* Celtics get a much-needed tall player who actually likes playing in the post—something else they desperately need—and wants to be in the post, and is good in the post, and is also a good passer. A KG-Gasol frontcourt would be great in terms of length, rebounding, rim protection, passing, and inside-outside scoring. Stinks to lose Pierce, but this will open things up for Jeff Green to get big, consistent minutes—and if he's the "heir apparent" to Pierce (in Danny's book), they might as well start using him more.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on January 26, 2013, 04:00:16 PM
Which would make us a better team. Pierce here starting or gasol next to KG with green starting. I mean, unless you think gasol is a complete bum and has nothing left *Because that's exactly how pierce is playing* i don't see how you couldn't say gasol. Gasol next to KG? Are you kidding me? With rondo setting everybody up? I think we can survive not having pierce turning the ball over and getting blocked 5 times a game while playing old man defense.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:01:14 PM
Why not Z-Bo over Pau?

Pau to Memphis with his Bro. Pierce back home to LA. Z-Bo to Boston alongside KG.

I imagine LA would rather have Rudy Gay than Pierce. A young star to put alongside Dwight instead of another old-timer on his way out.

I would love to see Memphis with Pau Gasol there instead of Zach Randolph. It would be great to see Pau and Marc play alongside each other. So potent together for Spain. Their combined passing ability with Mike Conley, whew, wow. That would be a lot of fun to watch.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Kane3387 on January 26, 2013, 04:02:10 PM
If the Lakers are set on Gay then I like this deal for all involved.

Move Green into the starting lineup also.

Z-Bo to Boston.

Pierce and Pau to Memphis.

Gay to the Lakers.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aq26g87
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 26, 2013, 04:03:00 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.

TOTALLY disagree. Pierce looks awful. Gasol and KG down low would be deadly together. I would've made this trade yesterday and twice the day before.

THIS^

Have you guys watched Pau play recently?  He's played poorly his last two trips to the playoffs, and has been bad this year. 

Our biggest issue right now is with offense, and Pau isn't going to elevate us in that regard.

Pau has indeed struggled this year, but I think at least a large part of that has to do with D'Antoni's system having no place for Pau (since Dwight's there), and D'Antoni misusing him whenever he does see the floor—trying to force him to be a three-point shooter, which negates Pau's great post game.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:04:28 PM
PG - Rondo
SG - Lee
SF - Green
PF - KG
C - Pau 
.... that roster makes more sense.   Still probably not a major contender unless KG starts playing vintage ball, but Pau and KG next together would be awesome.

Lee starts over Bradley? 


Something about Courtney Lee and Jeff Green starting together is making me very uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 04:06:29 PM
Which would make us a better team. Pierce here starting or gasol next to KG with green starting. I mean, unless you think gasol is a complete bum and has nothing left *Because that's exactly how pierce is playing* i don't see how you couldn't say gasol. Gasol next to KG? Are you kidding me? With rondo setting everybody up? I think we can survive not having pierce turning the ball over and getting blocked 5 times a game while playing old man defense.

I think it's a lateral move, for which we'd be paying Pau $22.2 million next year.  That extra $7 million (assuming we pick up Pierce's contract) or $17 million (if we don't) would put us squarely above the luxury tax, and unable to use the full MLE or bi-annual exception. 
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: csfansince60s on January 26, 2013, 04:06:43 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.

TOTALLY disagree. Pierce looks awful. Gasol and KG down low would be deadly together. I would've made this trade yesterday and twice the day before.

THIS^

Have you guys watched Pau play recently?  He's played poorly his last two trips to the playoffs, and has been bad this year. 

Our biggest issue right now is with offense, and Pau isn't going to elevate us in that regard.

Gasol has been terribly misused in D'Antoni's system, and he's p---ed about it.

D'Antoni has Gasol playing outside as a shooter. WTH is that? What it is is a stubborn D'Antoni forcing his "system" on players who are far better suited to a halfcourt post game.

That is not Gasol's strength. His strength is palying in the post, picking and popping or rolling and is a superior passer both on the kickout and inside. He is a rebounder. He can block shots.

Add to that that D'Antoni, in a spat with Gasol, said Gasol was relegated to the bench permanently, I think were his exact words.

Way to get the most out of your players!!

Losing Pierce will sting in a whole bunch of ways, but getting Gasol will solve a lot of problems on this team.

 Is it a gamble? Yes, every trade is a gamble.

Is it worth it? In my opinion all day, everyday.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:07:09 PM
If the Lakers are set on Gay then I like this deal for all involved.


Z-Bo to Boston.

Pierce and Pau to Memphis.

Gay to the Lakers.

Pierce with his shooting ability would be a much better fit offensively in Memphis alongside Pau and Marc Gasol than Rudy Gay would be.

Conley and Pierce would give Memphis two high level shooters. They could have TA as their defensive stopper. Delonte West would be a lovely alternative to TA at SG with his shooting ability. Really spread out the floor for Pau and Marc to pound teams in the paint.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 04:09:10 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.

TOTALLY disagree. Pierce looks awful. Gasol and KG down low would be deadly together. I would've made this trade yesterday and twice the day before.

THIS^

Have you guys watched Pau play recently?  He's played poorly his last two trips to the playoffs, and has been bad this year. 

Our biggest issue right now is with offense, and Pau isn't going to elevate us in that regard.

Pau has indeed struggled this year, but I think at least a large part of that has to do with D'Antoni's system having no place for Pau (since Dwight's there), and D'Antoni misusing him whenever he does see the floor—trying to force him to be a three-point shooter, which negates Pau's great post game.

What about the playoffs the last two seasons, when he's averaged around 12 points and shot 42%? 

I just don't see the evidence that Pau is going to be able to carry a team offensively.  A lineup of Pau/KG/Green/Bradley/Rondo is very poor offensively, even worse than our current team.  Plus, our bench scoring would be worse without Green's sporadic contributions.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: CelticsFan9 on January 26, 2013, 04:09:13 PM
The trade hurts us the most, then the Griz, then the Lakers.

Pau is softer than Jeff Green.  He has played awful since sucking in the 2011 playoffs, and I don't expect him to be as good with KG as some on here are saying.

Grizzlies still lack a go-to scorer in the clutch.  Gay has been that guy, and they ship him out for a slower, older guy who primarily takes jumpers?  Gimme a break.

Gay isn't a good enough three point shooter to be great for that D'Antoni system, but he's plenty athletic.  A Gay, Artest, Howard front court could be intriguing.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:09:39 PM
Lakers trying to add a young star in Rudy Gay to go along with Dwight Howard.

Building the foundation for the next 5-8 years of title-contention post Kobe Bryant.

Apart from the fact that Gay ain't no star.

Yeah right now if you were rank them it would go:

#1 - (Healthy) Pau
#2 - Pierce
#3 - Gay

I would rate Pau Gasol as the best player in the deal. Rudy Gay as the 2nd best but the most valuable overall due to his youth.

I see Pierce as the least valuable. Oldest and worst.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Kane3387 on January 26, 2013, 04:10:41 PM
Lakers trying to add a young star in Rudy Gay to go along with Dwight Howard.

Building the foundation for the next 5-8 years of title-contention post Kobe Bryant.

Apart from the fact that Gay ain't no star.

Yeah right now if you were rank them it would go:

#1 - (Healthy) Pau
#2 - Pierce
#3 - Gay

I would rate Pau Gasol as the best player in the deal. Rudy Gay as the 2nd best but the most valuable overall due to his youth.

I see Pierce as the least valuable. Oldest and worst.

Where does Z-Bo rank in there?
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:12:05 PM
Pau is softer than Jeff Green.  He has played awful since sucking in the 2011 playoffs, and I don't expect him to be as good with KG as some on here are saying.
What are your concerns about Pau Gasol alongside Garnett?

Why do you think Pau won't be as good alongside KG as some expect Pau to be?
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: hpantazo on January 26, 2013, 04:13:15 PM
I have to admit, the idea of Gasol together with KG is intriguing. I'm on the side of those who believe Pau has been misused and has a lot left in the tank.  Pierce looks cooked, and letting Green start along with Pau and KG up front together with Rondo and Bradley would be great imo.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:13:40 PM
Lakers trying to add a young star in Rudy Gay to go along with Dwight Howard.

Building the foundation for the next 5-8 years of title-contention post Kobe Bryant.

Apart from the fact that Gay ain't no star.

Yeah right now if you were rank them it would go:

#1 - (Healthy) Pau
#2 - Pierce
#3 - Gay

I would rate Pau Gasol as the best player in the deal. Rudy Gay as the 2nd best but the most valuable overall due to his youth.

I see Pierce as the least valuable. Oldest and worst.

Where does Z-Bo rank in there?
Hmm ... I suppose Zach Randolph would be above Pierce and Gay. I would have him behind Pau although I imagine many would disagree with that.

I would still rate Rudy as the most valuable piece overall due to his youth.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 04:15:10 PM
Pau + KG + Green + Bradley + Rondo

Worst offensive spacing in the NBA?  We're already 27th in the NBA in 3PT shooting...  this would make us the worst in the league by a far margin, I bet.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: hpantazo on January 26, 2013, 04:17:03 PM
Pau + KG + Green + Bradley + Rondo

Worst offensive spacing in the NBA?  We're already 27th in the NBA in 3PT shooting...  this would make us the worst in the league by a far margin, I bet.

I'm not so sure about that. Green and Bradley are decent 3 pt shooters, Rondo is a much better 3pt shooter than the past, and KG and Pau are both excellent jump shooters themselves. We would also have 3 outstanding passers at their positions in that lineup with Rondo, KG, and Pau.

Look at it this way, Pau is a better outside shooter than Bass, who he would be replacing, and Green is a bit worse than Pierce, but at this stage in their careers not that much worse a 3 pt shooter.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 04:25:08 PM
Pau + KG + Green + Bradley + Rondo

Worst offensive spacing in the NBA?  We're already 27th in the NBA in 3PT shooting...  this would make us the worst in the league by a far margin, I bet.

I'm not so sure about that. Green and Bradley are decent 3 pt shooters, Rondo is a much better 3pt shooter than the past, and KG and Pau are both excellent jump shooters themselves. We would also have 3 outstanding passers at their positions in that lineup with Rondo, KG, and Pau.

Look at it this way, Pau is a better outside shooter than Bass, who he would be replacing, and Green is a bit worse than Pierce, but at this stage in their careers not that much worse a 3 pt shooter.

Green makes about one three-pointer every 1.5 games.  He's shooting 32.9%, which is not particularly good, and significantly worse than Pierce (even with his slump). Bradley makes about one per game, and shoots 33%.  Again, not good.

Rondo hits about one three every three games, and shoots a very poor 24%. 

The spacing -- something we already struggle with -- would be terrible.  I'm willing to be convinced, though; what starting lineup features less outside shooting?
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:31:25 PM
Pau + KG + Green + Bradley + Rondo

Worst offensive spacing in the NBA?  We're already 27th in the NBA in 3PT shooting...  this would make us the worst in the league by a far margin, I bet.
I think the spacing will be fine but I do agree there is a major lack of three point shooting there. It would make somebody like a Jared Dudley, JJ Redick or Kyle Korver more necessary.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Geo123 on January 26, 2013, 04:33:18 PM
Pau + KG + Green + Bradley + Rondo

Worst offensive spacing in the NBA?  We're already 27th in the NBA in 3PT shooting...  this would make us the worst in the league by a far margin, I bet.

If you kept Lee and Terry that's where your spacing would come in.  If they even go back to hitting their normal % from three
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: BenHenry on January 26, 2013, 04:36:00 PM
Quote
Anybody in?

Nope.

Adding Pau but subtracting Pierce doesn't make us a contender.

TOTALLY disagree. Pierce looks awful. Gasol and KG down low would be deadly together. I would've made this trade yesterday and twice the day before.

THIS^

Have you guys watched Pau play recently?  He's played poorly his last two trips to the playoffs, and has been bad this year. 

Our biggest issue right now is with offense, and Pau isn't going to elevate us in that regard.

Pau has indeed struggled this year, but I think at least a large part of that has to do with D'Antoni's system having no place for Pau (since Dwight's there), and D'Antoni misusing him whenever he does see the floor—trying to force him to be a three-point shooter, which negates Pau's great post game.

What about the playoffs the last two seasons, when he's averaged around 12 points and shot 42%? 

I just don't see the evidence that Pau is going to be able to carry a team offensively.  A lineup of Pau/KG/Green/Bradley/Rondo is very poor offensively, even worse than our current team.  Plus, our bench scoring would be worse without Green's sporadic contributions.

Cmon guys Pau Gasol is clearly on the downside of his late career and on a bad max contract, 22 million? are you serious? Like Roy said he's been a noshow in the playoffs the past 2 years shooting 42% for a center! And now his FGs are still in the low 40s. Gasol is turning 33 this year and he's been on a steady decline every year for the past 5 years so this i not a move for the future, he's done.

Are you guys really that convinced that Gasol will magically revert his aging process and play like he was 27-28? Haven't we had enough of signing old guys like Terry? If we're actually trading our Captain at least ask for a future star in return.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:37:47 PM
The spacing -- something we already struggle with -- would be terrible.  I'm willing to be convinced, though; what starting lineup features less outside shooting?
Overall jump-shooting or three point shooting?

If strictly three point shooting, not many starting lineups, if any at all, have worse three point shooting than that unit.

If overall jump-shooting, I think Boston would rate fairly mediocre (middle of the pack to slightly below average, say mid to high teens) largely due to the strength of their big man shooters (who would rank near the top of the league) pulling the starting unit up the rankings.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: scaryjerry on January 26, 2013, 04:41:08 PM
rather go forward with Rudy gay  then a washed up pau gasol for Paul pierce so why not deal with Memphis without the Lakers... pau and kg hate each other...cute on paper but they wouldn't work
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
The spacing -- something we already struggle with -- would be terrible.  I'm willing to be convinced, though; what starting lineup features less outside shooting?
Overall jump-shooting or three point shooting?

If strictly three point shooting, not many starting lineups if any have worse shooting than that unit. If overall jump-shooting, I think Boston would rate fairly mediocre largely due to the strength of their big man shooters pulling them up the rankings.

Three point shooting.  I've got to think we'd be by far the worst in the NBA.

Right now, we've made 234 3-pointers on the season.  Paul Pierce accounts for 77 of those, essentially one-third of our total. 

I think three point shooting is essential.  Not only does it improve an offense's efficiency, but the floor-stretching really is important for opening up offense inside.  Pau's going to have a much harder time operating in the post if there aren't any reliable 3PT shooters to kick out to.

If we had a dynamic offensive scorer -- say, Kyrie Irving -- then I could justify Pau over Pierce.  Without that top scoring threat, though, and surrounded by poor shooters, our team would struggle as much or more than it does now.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Who on January 26, 2013, 04:50:55 PM
I really like Jeff Green in an offense built around Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett.

I think Jeff Green would fit in really well in a power offense like that. An offense that is run through the post and revolves largely around post play. With Jeff Green's post play and passing abilities, I think he'd function very well there. In terms of Garnett and Pau, the combination of both the post threat + jump-shooting capabilities would be very good for Green.

Add in the transition opportunities with Rondo and Bradley or Lee and it's hard to think of a more beneficial situation for Jeff Green offensively as a starting small forward on a playoff team.

It's about as good as you can get it for J.Green.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Celticfankb on January 26, 2013, 05:11:47 PM
I don't get posters wanting Gasol. This team really needs a young wing player, that can create their own shot. We have trouble scoring! Gasol is not a dominate post player, therefore it wouldn't make sense to trade Pierce for him. If you trade Pierce, we need to replace him with similar talent level. 

My questions to those who want Gasol is, when we need a basket in the 4th who will we go to? If Pierce goes, nobody on this team can create their own shot!!! Nobody!!!!

Not even Rondo! If he could he would. You saw last night when he tried? Disater! He's a great player but thats not his game.

This team needs a major overhaul. No band aids
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: crownontherocks on January 26, 2013, 05:29:59 PM
I do not want to trade pierce for gasol.   

Surprized danny is trying to get howard instead if hes going that way
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Sketch5 on January 26, 2013, 05:30:41 PM
IF we are sending PP to the Griz, why wouldn't we just take Gay instead of playing with the Fakers?

Move Green and some pieces for some thing else.

Pau is a nice player, but in a couple years we will be right back were we are now. Or worse, not even improve with that move...
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: get_banners on January 26, 2013, 05:38:49 PM
Pierce for Gay isn't horrible...but Gay has a huge contract and isn't a superstar. A good player, yes, but for that many years and dollars, I'm skeptical. Paul for (indirectly) Pau could be good...but, again, the contract issue looms. Pau is getting 19 and (almost) 20m this year and next. That's a lot of dough. But...maybe its not terrible in that its only one more season. Of course...I'm not sure which Pau we would get, either. If he's healthy and playing well, he is a great player. If he's not...I'd prefer the Captain.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Tr1boy on January 26, 2013, 06:39:08 PM
i would do the trade in a heartbeat. Sorry but it works out for me

A KG and Pau combo would be deadly. It would be Duncan + Robinson all over again

Give Jeff Green a chance to start also.

Memphis can have Gay. they wouldn't be any better imo
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: ghost_of_davidthirdkill on January 26, 2013, 07:15:46 PM
If Memphis is willing to trade Gay for Pierce, I'd call Sacramento first and see if they'd be willing to part with Cousins and Salmons for Gay.  Heck, I'd send them a first or Melo, as well. 

Boston gets:  Demarcus Cousins & John Salmons

Memphis gets:  Paul Pierce

Sacramento gets:  Rudy Gay + 1st round (Bos)/Fab Melo


This trade helps the Celtics in the long run and in the present.


However, if the Kings have truly given up the idea of moving DMC, then I'd do the trade with Gasol.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: CelticsFan9 on January 26, 2013, 07:22:44 PM
Pau is softer than Jeff Green.  He has played awful since sucking in the 2011 playoffs, and I don't expect him to be as good with KG as some on here are saying.
What are your concerns about Pau Gasol alongside Garnett?

Why do you think Pau won't be as good alongside KG as some expect Pau to be?

I know the Lakers are misusing Pau and not posting him up, but I put some blame on Gasol.  I don't think he wants to post up anymore.

Also, the spacing would suck if we had a lineup of those two, Rondo, Green, and Bradley.

Defensively, he has regressed a lot.

He would help KG with rebounding, I'll give you that.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: ScottHow on January 26, 2013, 07:27:10 PM
I'm looking for trades that give us young players and/or draft picks. If we start tanking soon we can get a solid lotto pick
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Kane3387 on January 26, 2013, 07:49:35 PM
Roy,

Your opinion carries weight. You're pretty analytical compared to most when it comes to roster moves for Boston. I get the feeling you would rather just stick with Pierce, but let's assume he would be moved for either Pau or Z-Bo.

So, Z-Bo or Pau on our squad assuming we're going to trade Pierce for one of them? And thus promote Jeff to starter.

Who would you like more next to Garnett?

Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: j804 on January 26, 2013, 07:51:30 PM
Roy,

Your opinion carries weight. You're pretty analytical compared to most when it comes to roster moves for Boston. I get the feeling you would rather just stick with Pierce, but let's assume he would be moved for either Pau or Z-Bo.

So, Z-Bo or Pau on our squad assuming we're going to trade Pierce for one of them? And thus promote Jeff to starter.

Who would you like more next to Garnett?
Pau
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Kane3387 on January 26, 2013, 07:55:50 PM
Overall I would move Pierce for Gay.

For me if you recognize you aren't in position to compete for a title, then you have to collect as many assets as possible. I believe Gay is a stronger asset then Pierce right now regardless of contract.

That is why I would do it. I love Pierce. He has been the Celtics for the last decade and then some. However for the betterment of the franchise, you got to be like the Patriots, and put the franchise first.

It's not like Boston hasn't been loyal to Pierce. Big contract after big contract. He's been worthy, but we have still paid. We rode with him and brought in a 32 year old Ray Allen coming off double Ankle surgery on a Max Deal. We gave every remaining asset we had to get KG. We went all in for Pierce and thankfully it worked. However it was no sure thing.

If we moved Pierce because it was better for the Boston Celtic's future I don't think either party could be mad. Gary Payton was moved in a similar move. Richard Seymour, etc. is the same thing. For me this is about the organization and if moving Pierce is in the best interest of the Boston Celtic's future then we HAVE to do it.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Kane3387 on January 26, 2013, 07:56:10 PM
Roy,

Your opinion carries weight. You're pretty analytical compared to most when it comes to roster moves for Boston. I get the feeling you would rather just stick with Pierce, but let's assume he would be moved for either Pau or Z-Bo.

So, Z-Bo or Pau on our squad assuming we're going to trade Pierce for one of them? And thus promote Jeff to starter.

Who would you like more next to Garnett?
Pau

Why?
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: twistedrico14 on January 26, 2013, 07:56:35 PM
My brain says good trade, my heart wants PP to retire a Celtic.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Cman on January 26, 2013, 07:58:50 PM
meh, makes Cs better in short term, worse in long term....
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: MJohnnyboy on January 26, 2013, 08:04:46 PM
Roy,

Your opinion carries weight. You're pretty analytical compared to most when it comes to roster moves for Boston. I get the feeling you would rather just stick with Pierce, but let's assume he would be moved for either Pau or Z-Bo.

So, Z-Bo or Pau on our squad assuming we're going to trade Pierce for one of them? And thus promote Jeff to starter.

Who would you like more next to Garnett?
Pau

^This. Z-Bo hogs the ball and even though he is younger, has the tendency to think of himself too much as the alpha dog. Gasol does neither.

Gasol and Garnett could be a potentially lethal inside and out combo having Garnett on the perimeter and Gasol in the post. Those are their natural games and nothing will change that.

I'm for this trade even though there's probably no legs to it (The Lakers aren't helping us to get an overpaid 3. Especially since Howard could be leaving regardless), but only if Danny can get another wing in the process. We need more than Jeff to cover Lebron. This is why I wanted the Celtics to re-sign Marquis. He may not be offensively skilled but he's a reliable defender. Always has been.

EDIT: Also, garnett and gasol are two amazing passers for big men. They'd work very well together.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: MJohnnyboy on January 26, 2013, 08:26:22 PM
The team who is most likely to say no is LA. They'd hate to see Gasol go to their mortal enemy, even if Rudy Gay is the most value they can get for Gasol. Especially because I think Gasol could fit really well with KG and Rondo.

Gasol would put KG back at the 4 because he's a natural 5. I would seriously love to see him and KG work together.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 08:43:47 PM
Roy,

Your opinion carries weight. You're pretty analytical compared to most when it comes to roster moves for Boston. I get the feeling you would rather just stick with Pierce, but let's assume he would be moved for either Pau or Z-Bo.

So, Z-Bo or Pau on our squad assuming we're going to trade Pierce for one of them? And thus promote Jeff to starter.

Who would you like more next to Garnett?

Tough one.

I like both guys.  I think ZBo is better able to carry an offense, which we'd need.  At the same time, Pau is a better defender, and unlike ZBo, can play both front court positions interchangeably.

Pau is probably a better fit next to KG, although the only way we'd contend with either of them is if Randolph got hot and carried the team.
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: Roy H. on January 26, 2013, 08:45:04 PM
Roy,

Your opinion carries weight. You're pretty analytical compared to most when it comes to roster moves for Boston. I get the feeling you would rather just stick with Pierce, but let's assume he would be moved for either Pau or Z-Bo.

So, Z-Bo or Pau on our squad assuming we're going to trade Pierce for one of them? And thus promote Jeff to starter.

Who would you like more next to Garnett?
Pau

^This. Z-Bo hogs the ball and even though he is younger, has the tendency to think of himself too much as the alpha dog. Gasol does neither.

Gasol and Garnett could be a potentially lethal inside and out combo having Garnett on the perimeter and Gasol in the post. Those are their natural games and nothing will change that.

I'm for this trade even though there's probably no legs to it (The Lakers aren't helping us to get an overpaid 3. Especially since Howard could be leaving regardless), but only if Danny can get another wing in the process. We need more than Jeff to cover Lebron. This is why I wanted the Celtics to re-sign Marquis. He may not be offensively skilled but he's a reliable defender. Always has been.

EDIT: Also, garnett and gasol are two amazing passers for big men. They'd work very well together.

At the same time, if Paul was gone, wouldn't we need a "ball hog" down the stretch, somebody who wasn't scared to take the team on his shoulders?
Title: Re: Wiretap Speculation:3 way:PP to Grizz,Pau to Cs, Gay to Fakers
Post by: MJohnnyboy on January 26, 2013, 09:10:29 PM
Roy,

Your opinion carries weight. You're pretty analytical compared to most when it comes to roster moves for Boston. I get the feeling you would rather just stick with Pierce, but let's assume he would be moved for either Pau or Z-Bo.

So, Z-Bo or Pau on our squad assuming we're going to trade Pierce for one of them? And thus promote Jeff to starter.

Who would you like more next to Garnett?
Pau

^This. Z-Bo hogs the ball and even though he is younger, has the tendency to think of himself too much as the alpha dog. Gasol does neither.

Gasol and Garnett could be a potentially lethal inside and out combo having Garnett on the perimeter and Gasol in the post. Those are their natural games and nothing will change that.

I'm for this trade even though there's probably no legs to it (The Lakers aren't helping us to get an overpaid 3. Especially since Howard could be leaving regardless), but only if Danny can get another wing in the process. We need more than Jeff to cover Lebron. This is why I wanted the Celtics to re-sign Marquis. He may not be offensively skilled but he's a reliable defender. Always has been.

EDIT: Also, garnett and gasol are two amazing passers for big men. They'd work very well together.

At the same time, if Paul was gone, wouldn't we need a "ball hog" down the stretch, somebody who wasn't scared to take the team on his shoulders?

Touche. Let me just say I don't want Pierce gone, and I would be angered beyond belief if he was traded straight up for Gay. I just think Gasol and Garnett would work beautifully together.

And another problem is Pierce hasn't shown the clutch gene much this season. Outside of the Knicks game, I can't really remember a game where Pierce showed up down the stretch. Last night made me mad because Josh Smith, one of the best defensive wings in the game, was covering Pierce on his typical iso play, but that didn't stop Pierce, and it cost the Celtics the game.

Gasol has shown he has the clutch gene. He stepped up to the plate in the game that shant be remembered in the 4th quarter. Granted Perk wasn't there, but Gasol made plays down the stretch when Kobe wasn't hitting shots. The Lakers (Or D'Antonni) don't want him anymore. I think letting go of Pierce is worth the risk for Gasol. He's a center who has got a post game and he can rebound. I think he'd be great here.