CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: lantinm on January 26, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
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Let me just preface this by saying that my plan doesn't work unless Doc is willing to make some changes.
Starters
C - Garnett
PF - Sully
SF - Green
SG - Pierce
PG - Rondo
Bench -
C - Melo
PF - Downs
SF - Lee
SG - Bradley
PG - Barbosa
Out of rotation:
Bass, Terry, Wilcox, Collins
Okay, here's why it works:
1. I'm a big believer in starting your five best players. With KG, Sully, Green, Pierce, and Rondo, that gets accomplished. This lineup takes a ton of pressure off of Pierce, as both Green and Sully can score in the post and on the perimeter (if plays are run for them).
2. I understand that I'm killing both Bass' and Terry's trade value by removing them from the rotay, but NBA GM's know what they are, so it shouldn't matter that much.
3. The bench I proposed could absolutely run teams off the floor, lock them up on D, and offer perimeter shooting. I know some may call me crazy for wanting to sign Micah Downs, but he's a 6'9 wing who can slash, defend, shoot, is a very good rebounder, and is someone who could bring crazy energy off the bench. Melo offers shot-blocking, rebounding, energy, and is someone who can run the floor with this unit.
Thoughts?
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Why not trade Terry and Bass?
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This is bad. Do you pay attention to stats? Ha!
This fixes nothing.
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Why not trade Terry and Bass?
I want to, but for now I want them out of the rotation.
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This is bad. Do you pay attention to stats? Ha!
This fixes nothing.
Of course I pay attention to stats. I understand that the 2nd unit's rebounding is weakened, but that unit can score, run, and defend. Everyone of our proposed starters can score, taking the burden off of Pierce.
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I don't want to take Bradley out of the starting lineup so quickly. I want to give him an extended run here to get healthy and show what can really do.
When that is clear, that will be the time for decisions.
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This is bad. Do you pay attention to stats? Ha!
This fixes nothing.
Of course I pay attention to stats. I understand that the 2nd unit's rebounding is weakened, but that unit can score, run, and defend. Everyone of our proposed starters can score, taking the burden off of Pierce.
Barbosa as back up kills offense
JG and PP can't play together, at least in this system. EVERYTHING no matter your line up defers to Pierce. Either PP sits, or JG continues to come off the bench.
Who is Melo? Who is Downs? 2nd String players? yea right
Lee and Bradley should really only swap for each other. Though I haven't seen what they do together. Lee at 3 worries me. You have almost 0 threats off the bench.
Jet needs to come off for PG or SG. Significantly better ball handler than Barbosa and can actually create. Just doesn't prefer to.
Wilcox and Rondo play well together. Wilcox FG% was in the 70s wasn't it? What?
I don't get this.
Maybe you should explain your systematic changes.
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I don't want to take Bradley out of the starting lineup so quickly. I want to give him an extended run here to get healthy and show what can really do.
When that is clear, that will be the time for decisions.
I don't either, but Bradley is kind of one-dimensional with the 1st unit. Since the 1st unit rarely runs, Bradley is relegated to spotting up for a corner three or the occasional backdoor cut. On the 2nd unit, he could run with Barbosa (who pushes it every chance he gets) and could really get a ton of opportunities in transition.
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I'm sorry, Micah Downs?
You want Micah Downs backing up the 4?
200 lbs Micah Downs??
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This is bad. Do you pay attention to stats? Ha!
This fixes nothing.
Of course I pay attention to stats. I understand that the 2nd unit's rebounding is weakened, but that unit can score, run, and defend. Everyone of our proposed starters can score, taking the burden off of Pierce.
Barbosa as back up kills offense
JG and PP can't play together, at least in this system. EVERYTHING no matter your line up defers to Pierce. Either PP sits, or JG continues to come off the bench.
Who is Melo? Who is Downs? 2nd String players? yea right
Lee and Bradley should really only swap for each other. Though I haven't seen what they do together. Lee at 3 worries me. You have almost 0 threats off the bench.
Jet needs to come off for PG or SG. Significantly better ball handler than Barbosa and can actually create. Just doesn't prefer to.
Wilcox and Rondo play well together. Wilcox FG% was in the 70s wasn't it? What?
I don't get this.
Maybe you should explain your systematic changes.
Barbosa as a back-up kills offense? He could basically be the 2nd unit offense by himself. Furthermore, he pushes the ball at every single opportunity.....Jason Terry does not. Bradley and Lee on the wings with Barbosa pushing it could be lethal. If you don't know who Melo and Downs are, then look them up. Melo is just about ready to start getting 2nd unit minutes with us -- I mean he can't be worse than Collins' corpse. Finally, Rondo to Wilcox is a great combo, but Wilcox cannot stay on the floor (in case you haven't noticed). Lee at the 3 is a bit shaky, but Doc, loves his small ball and has used him there. With the exception of Melo, Lee, Bradley, Barbosa, and Downs can all score.
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I'm sorry, Micah Downs?
You want Micah Downs backing up the 4?
200 lbs Micah Downs??
In a small-ball lineup (like Doc loves), Downs could play the 4. He's 6'9 and is an excellent rebounder for a 2/3.
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This is bad. Do you pay attention to stats? Ha!
This fixes nothing.
Of course I pay attention to stats. I understand that the 2nd unit's rebounding is weakened, but that unit can score, run, and defend. Everyone of our proposed starters can score, taking the burden off of Pierce.
Barbosa as back up kills offense
JG and PP can't play together, at least in this system. EVERYTHING no matter your line up defers to Pierce. Either PP sits, or JG continues to come off the bench.
Who is Melo? Who is Downs? 2nd String players? yea right
Lee and Bradley should really only swap for each other. Though I haven't seen what they do together. Lee at 3 worries me. You have almost 0 threats off the bench.
Jet needs to come off for PG or SG. Significantly better ball handler than Barbosa and can actually create. Just doesn't prefer to.
Wilcox and Rondo play well together. Wilcox FG% was in the 70s wasn't it? What?
I don't get this.
Maybe you should explain your systematic changes.
Barbosa as a back-up kills offense? He could basically be the 2nd unit offense by himself. Furthermore, he pushes the ball at every single opportunity.....Jason Terry does not. Bradley and Lee on the wings with Barbosa pushing it could be lethal. If you don't know who Melo and Downs are, then look them up. Melo is just about ready to start getting 2nd unit minutes with us -- I mean he can't be worse than Collins' corpse. Finally, Rondo to Wilcox is a great combo, but Wilcox cannot stay on the floor (in case you haven't noticed). Lee at the 3 is a bit shaky, but Doc, loves his small ball and has used him there. With the exception of Melo, Lee, Bradley, Barbosa, and Downs can all score.
yea...that's my point about Barbosa. And when he flips up a shot and it doesn't go in and we run back on defense cuz we don't value you 2nd chance points...then what? Barbosa is a scorer. Not a ball handler.
these are poor ideas. small ball rarely works the way Doc uses it.
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This is bad. Do you pay attention to stats? Ha!
This fixes nothing.
Of course I pay attention to stats. I understand that the 2nd unit's rebounding is weakened, but that unit can score, run, and defend. Everyone of our proposed starters can score, taking the burden off of Pierce.
Barbosa as back up kills offense
JG and PP can't play together, at least in this system. EVERYTHING no matter your line up defers to Pierce. Either PP sits, or JG continues to come off the bench.
Who is Melo? Who is Downs? 2nd String players? yea right
Lee and Bradley should really only swap for each other. Though I haven't seen what they do together. Lee at 3 worries me. You have almost 0 threats off the bench.
Jet needs to come off for PG or SG. Significantly better ball handler than Barbosa and can actually create. Just doesn't prefer to.
Wilcox and Rondo play well together. Wilcox FG% was in the 70s wasn't it? What?
I don't get this.
Maybe you should explain your systematic changes.
Barbosa as a back-up kills offense? He could basically be the 2nd unit offense by himself. Furthermore, he pushes the ball at every single opportunity.....Jason Terry does not. Bradley and Lee on the wings with Barbosa pushing it could be lethal. If you don't know who Melo and Downs are, then look them up. Melo is just about ready to start getting 2nd unit minutes with us -- I mean he can't be worse than Collins' corpse. Finally, Rondo to Wilcox is a great combo, but Wilcox cannot stay on the floor (in case you haven't noticed). Lee at the 3 is a bit shaky, but Doc, loves his small ball and has used him there. With the exception of Melo, Lee, Bradley, Barbosa, and Downs can all score.
yea...that's my point about Barbosa. And when he flips up a shot and it doesn't go in and we run back on defense cuz we don't value you 2nd chance points...then what? Barbosa is a scorer. Not a ball handler.
these are poor ideas. small ball rarely works the way Doc uses it.
Two things: 1. Terry isn't an initiator of offense, rarely runs, and cannot get in the lane to break down the D.
2. Barbosa runs every chance he gets and can get into the lane at will (with his speed). Does he always take the best shots once he's in there? Maybe not. However, he can at least draw the defense and open up opportunities for others.
What are some of your ideas to fix this team -- I would love to hear them.
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Pierce can't even guard opposing 3's, so now he should chase their 2's? Have you watched any games this season, especially over the past month? My 5 would be RR,Lee,Green,Sully and KG. Bring up Melo and play wilcox at the backup 4 with PP,Terry and Bradley @ the 1.
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I do like the idea of benching Terry and giving Barbosa his minutes.
Terry hasn't contributed enough. It's worthwhile seeing if Barbosa can offer more. Both have been high level backup guards in the past. Terry slightly better but he hasn't done enough to guarantee himself minutes when competing with a player as talented as Barbosa for court time.
Barbosa deserves a shot to see if he can contribute more than Terry can. A nice 10-15 game run as backup PG/SG. Terry shouldn't play during that time.
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I rather Starters:
C = Melo
PF = Garnett
SF = Green
SG = Lee
PG = Rondo
2nd Unit:
C = Sullinger
PF = Bass
SF = Pierce
SG = Terry
PG = Bradley
I would rather package a trade involving Barbosa & Wilcox for a Back-up Point Guard or Center.
I will also then sign Micah Downs, Dujuan Summers, Chris Wright to fill the bench. All 3 guys have played well & deserve a call up.
Our problem with this team is the direct result of what happened in the preseason. Our best players were Jeff Green & Dionte Christmas. Not sure why XMas wasn't kept nor am I sure why Micah wasn't kept & why Doc didn't give more lengthy opportunities to Kris Joseph. At the end of it all its Doc's fault. He was giving players he agreed upon & hasn't delivered with what he was given.
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Pierce can't even guard opposing 3's, so now he should chase their 2's? Have you watched any games this season, especially over the past month? My 5 would be RR,Lee,Green,Sully and KG. Bring up Melo and play wilcox at the backup 4 with PP,Terry and Bradley @ the 1.
First, I've watched every game this season. Have you seen how broken our offense is? We've been pretty much playing 3 on 5 and getting nothing from both the 4 and 2 spots. Your plan has us benching Pierce and playing Bradley at the 1 (which he hasn't shown he can do).
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Let me just preface this by saying that my plan doesn't work unless Doc is willing to make some changes.
Starters
C - Garnett
PF - Sully
SF - Green
SG - Pierce
PG - Rondo
Bench -
C - Melo
PF - Downs
SF - Lee
SG - Bradley
PG - Barbosa
Out of rotation:
Bass, Terry, Wilcox, Collins
Okay, here's why it works:
1. I'm a big believer in starting your five best players. With KG, Sully, Green, Pierce, and Rondo, that gets accomplished. This lineup takes a ton of pressure off of Pierce, as both Green and Sully can score in the post and on the perimeter (if plays are run for them).
2. I understand that I'm killing both Bass' and Terry's trade value by removing them from the rotay, but NBA GM's know what they are, so it shouldn't matter that much.
3. The bench I proposed could absolutely run teams off the floor, lock them up on D, and offer perimeter shooting. I know some may call me crazy for wanting to sign Micah Downs, but he's a 6'9 wing who can slash, defend, shoot, is a very good rebounder, and is someone who could bring crazy energy off the bench. Melo offers shot-blocking, rebounding, energy, and is someone who can run the floor with this unit.
Thoughts?
I don't think our situation can get much worse than it is, so I'd try it.
Things I love...
1.Sully starting
2.No more Bass
3.Melo getting minutes
4.No more Collins
The only thing that I kind of cringe at is Bradley to the second unit. I think it'd hurt his trade value and I don't know how he'd do with out Rondo.
But like I said, at this point, why not?
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Pierce can't even guard opposing 3's, so now he should chase their 2's? Have you watched any games this season, especially over the past month?
Yeah, I have given up on idea of Pierce defending SGs on a regular basis too.
Pierce has simply been too vacant defensively too frequently this season to place him on players who have more quickness, dribbling capacity and are higher level shooters than the opponents he is currently tasked with defending at SF.
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I rather Starters:
C = Melo
PF = Garnett
SF = Green
SG = Lee
PG = Rondo
2nd Unit:
C = Sullinger
PF = Bass
SF = Pierce
SG = Terry
PG = Bradley
I would rather package a trade involving Barbosa & Wilcox for a Back-up Point Guard or Center.
I will also then sign Micah Downs, Dujuan Summers, Chris Wright to fill the bench. All 3 guys have played well & deserve a call up.
Our problem with this team is the direct result of what happened in the preseason. Our best players were Jeff Green & Dionte Christmas. Not sure why XMas wasn't kept nor am I sure why Micah wasn't kept & why Doc didn't give more lengthy opportunities to Kris Joseph. At the end of it all its Doc's fault. He was giving players he agreed upon & hasn't delivered with what he was given.
Josh Smith can do whatever he wants on Sully, Sully will get murdered at the 5.. And playing him with Bass? That lineup is a joke. And no freaking way is Melo our starting center. Sorry, but it seems you don't really know what you're talking about.
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Some observations:
- Pierce needs a vacation in the worst way! I also believe he knows of some deals that Ainge has on the table involving him. When he return from his break, if he hasn't already been traded, he needs to become our key 6th player and allow Green to start and flourish. This move will make the Celtics a faster and more athletic team and it would allow Pierce to stay fresh and become our gunner off the bench, like Jamal Crawford. This move also allows us keep Pierce fresh for end of games and it allows Green to defend opposing team's athletic small forwards.
- Should keeping Pierce not be in the cards and we are not blowing up the team, then a swap for Pau Gasol provides the Celtics with a few avantages like a big who is a premier low post scorer and a great rebounder - two of the team's primary weakneses. On this team he would get 20 shots up and probably average 23 pts and 11 boards.
- Avery Bradley, unfortunately should be resting his ribs right now and not be playing. A poor record makes you do desperate things like this and not rest our veterans.
- Courtney Lee in the last few weeks has been playing so well and a complete game! His stock value must have gone up considerably and he may become an important piece in obtaining Reddick, if you believe the rumours.
- If management decides to blow it up, don't be surprised to not only see Pierce go but also Rondo. Rajon has proven this season in my eyes that he is a very good player, however, his play doesn't transcend the team and therefore he is unable to lift the team by himself to success and a winning record. Rondo is like a good lubricant - he makes all the moving parts smoother and more efficient. He is unfortunately not the engine we need hoped he would become with the exception for a handful of games.
- One thing is for sure, never a boring moment with this team.
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I'm just wondering what this "fixes." Does it solidify their spot as the 8th seed in the east, or will it move them up to 7th?
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I'm just wondering what this "fixes." Does it solidify their spot as the 8th seed in the east, or will it move them up to 7th?
I think it puts us behind Toronto.
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I'm just wondering what this "fixes." Does it solidify their spot as the 8th seed in the east, or will it move them up to 7th?
I think it puts us behind Toronto.
It fixes our salary cap issues, PP and KG will walk away at the end of the season after watching that bench get killed every game.