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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 04:59:58 PM

Title: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 04:59:58 PM
I'm very confused here and I'd like to know your personal thoughts.
This is not a bashing type of thing. I genuinely want to know.

Jeff is very close to averaging the same thing he's averaged in years past. I do not want to include ppg on here because his points increase when his FGA increase. But his Per 36 numbers are pretty much the same.

I want to know what you want from him?

It seems like there's 2 sets of ppl...those who want him to be PP2.0 (Work on his footwork, rebg, assists, etc.) and others who want him to..."live up to his contract" (whatever that means??)

EDIT: I also want to say that for the first 20 or so games I was displeased with Jeff, but I realized I wanted to change things about him that made him Paul or Lebron instead of basking in his Jeffness and not worrying about his contract.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: CelticConcourse on January 23, 2013, 05:01:06 PM
I want and know he can get a solid 20/6/4 and play up to Carmelo-level... for the twentieth time today! :D
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Donoghus on January 23, 2013, 05:02:07 PM
More than we're getting from Jeff Green now. 
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Chris on January 23, 2013, 05:04:34 PM
I want him to be more consistent.  Averages are nice, but when you don't know whether he is going to throw up 2 points or 18 points from night to night, it can be really hard on a team to count on him.

I want him to rotate better, and remember to box his man out, rather than constantly getting caught in no-mans land defensively.

I want him to hit the boards consistently, like he has done for stretches (often coinciding with nights where his shot is falling).

He doesn't need to be a 20 point per game scorer, or a shutdown defender.  But if he can give something that you can count on, night in and night out, it would go a long way to helping this team get better.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Roy H. on January 23, 2013, 05:05:22 PM
His per-minute averages don't bother me; he is who he is.

I would like to see him improve his consistency and efficiency, though.

In general, my beef isn't with Jeff Green, it's with the folks who wildly overrate him.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 05:06:31 PM
More than we're getting from Jeff Green now.

which is?
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Who on January 23, 2013, 05:08:27 PM
In terms of current expectations, I think Jeff Green is playing pretty much to par. A little more rebounding would be nice but offense and defense is close enough to what I am expecting him to contribute this year.

What I would like to see? Long term wise. I want Jeff Green look to score less and concentrate more on improving his non-scoring contributions. On continuing to improve his defense, his rebounding and better using his ball-handling and passing capabilities to facilitate the offense. All areas he is capable of good growth.

At the small forward position, I think of J.Green more as a poor man's Tayshaun Prince than as a shot-creator (which I don't think he is particularly good at when defend by quality defensive SFs). That is the type of player I'd love to see him develop into. A poor man's Tayshaun Prince. 
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 05:11:46 PM
His per-minute averages don't bother me; he is who he is.

I would like to see him improve his consistency and efficiency, though.

In general, my beef isn't with Jeff Green, it's with the folks who wildly overrate him.

My question for you:

Because I feel like by overrated you're talking about the Start Jeff Green movement.
Why is it wrong to want to start a 15ppg guy with legs to get an older vet who looks gassed some rest? Especially if you start him alongside Sully for reboundings sake?
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: ScoobyDoo on January 23, 2013, 05:13:51 PM
1. a Laser focus on becoming the team's defensive stopper at the three spot, occasional two spot.

2. More minutes played

3. The more uptempo we get, the better he'll do - 15/6
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: 2short on January 23, 2013, 05:15:23 PM
I'd like him to get solid minutes, start really.  Think PP off the bench improves the team as a whole.  This is more for Paul then anything to do with me thinking jeff is better (he isn't)
So Jeff could average 10-15 shots a game and play 25-28 minutes, average 18 pts or a bit more, 5-6 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and play solid defense.  I'd like the whole team's offense to be built around rondo and a running (tommy ball!) philosophy.

not enough to pull up current stats, forgive me if i'm off on mpg, spg etc
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 05:15:54 PM
1. a Laser focus on becoming the team's defensive stopper at the three spot, occasional two spot.

2. More minutes played

3. The more uptempo we get, the better he'll do - 15/6

Are you saying he has control over 2 and 3?
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: ManUp on January 23, 2013, 05:16:25 PM
I want him to play like a player that's worth 9 million dollars annually.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Roy H. on January 23, 2013, 05:20:59 PM
His per-minute averages don't bother me; he is who he is.

I would like to see him improve his consistency and efficiency, though.

In general, my beef isn't with Jeff Green, it's with the folks who wildly overrate him.

My question for you:

Because I feel like by overrated you're talking about the Start Jeff Green movement.
Why is it wrong to want to start a 15ppg guy with legs to get an older vet who looks gassed some rest? Especially if you start him alongside Sully for reboundings sake?

I've given my thoughts on why Pierce should start over Green ad nauseum.  I'd refer you to the various times when this subject has come up.  In general, though, I don't think weakening our starting unit is a good idea.  If Pierce needs rest, sit him, don't demote him for an inferior player.

As for those who overrate him, it's those who think:

1.  Green will ever be a #1 scoring option;
2.  Green is a future all-star;
3.  Green is on the same level as Carmelo Anthony, or even Paul Pierce;
4.  Green is a key building block to the future who shouldn't be traded
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 05:21:58 PM
I want him to play like a player that's worth 9 million dollars annually.

*sigh*
I'd like Paul Pierce to play like he's worth 16 million this year.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 23, 2013, 05:25:46 PM
Money to pay off my college loans.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: ScottHow on January 23, 2013, 05:28:12 PM
His per-minute averages don't bother me; he is who he is.

I would like to see him improve his consistency and efficiency, though.

In general, my beef isn't with Jeff Green, it's with the folks who wildly overrate him.

This.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 05:29:36 PM
His per-minute averages don't bother me; he is who he is.

I would like to see him improve his consistency and efficiency, though.

In general, my beef isn't with Jeff Green, it's with the folks who wildly overrate him.

My question for you:

Because I feel like by overrated you're talking about the Start Jeff Green movement.
Why is it wrong to want to start a 15ppg guy with legs to get an older vet who looks gassed some rest? Especially if you start him alongside Sully for reboundings sake?

I've given my thoughts on why Pierce should start over Green ad nauseum.  I'd refer you to the various times when this subject has come up.  In general, though, I don't think weakening our starting unit is a good idea.  If Pierce needs rest, sit him, don't demote him for an inferior player.

As for those who overrate him, it's those who think:

1.  Green will ever be a #1 scoring option;
2.  Green is a future all-star;
3.  Green is on the same level as Carmelo Anthony, or even Paul Pierce;
4.  Green is a key building block to the future who shouldn't be traded

i agree and disagree. Mainly with #4 -- he CAN be...not sure if he is right now because I haven't seen enough of him. I really do think he's underutilized.

2. If Jeremy Lin can almost be an AllStar...lol
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Kane3387 on January 23, 2013, 05:37:54 PM
15 ppg. 30 mpg. 4-5 rpg. 2 apg. 1 bpg. 1 spg. 6 free throw attempts per game.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: sofutomygaha on January 23, 2013, 06:09:09 PM
OMG so much Jeff Green talk today from CelticConcourse and kgainez who are definitely not the same person


I want Jeff Green to play good defense, be willing to go at defenders even if they aren't a total mismatch, draw about twice as many fouls as he does presently, and shoot for an at least average percentage from the field.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 23, 2013, 06:12:02 PM
To be trade fodder for someone who shows up every night?
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: LB3533 on January 23, 2013, 07:01:10 PM
I honestly think Jeff Green should be commended for his current play.

How can he be the same player in a different role after major heart surgery?

That is kinda astounding to me.

If you wanted Green to produce like he did in OKC he has to have the same role and same opportunities.

For him to produce at nearly the same rate, in a lesser role with lesser talent beside him, after heart surgery is kinda remarkable.

Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: CelticConcourse on January 23, 2013, 07:10:27 PM
I honestly think Jeff Green should be commended for his current play.

How can he be the same player in a different role after major heart surgery?

That is kinda astounding to me.

If you wanted Green to produce like he did in OKC he has to have the same role and same opportunities.

For him to produce at nearly the same rate, in a lesser role with lesser talent beside him, after heart surgery is kinda remarkable.

This!
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 10:10:39 PM
15 ppg. 30 mpg. 4-5 rpg. 2 apg. 1 bpg. 1 spg. 6 free throw attempts per game.

I like that
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 23, 2013, 10:12:24 PM
I honestly think Jeff Green should be commended for his current play.

How can he be the same player in a different role after major heart surgery?

That is kinda astounding to me.

If you wanted Green to produce like he did in OKC he has to have the same role and same opportunities.

For him to produce at nearly the same rate, in a lesser role with lesser talent beside him, after heart surgery is kinda remarkable.

not too loud
when you bring up the heart surgery, they get really insensitive like having your heart repaired is a papercut.
i rarely bring this up in arguments because it's not 'basketball'

i absolutely agree though
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Evantime34 on January 23, 2013, 10:47:32 PM
I want him to square up in the triple threat every time he gets the ball. Too often he passes it without even thinking about driving. When he does make a move I want him to be decisive. Take a probing jab step every time he gets the ball.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: vinnie on January 24, 2013, 12:14:59 AM
For him not to be the subject of any more threads on Celtics forum. Enough.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 24, 2013, 12:25:04 AM
For him no to be the subject of any more threads on Celtics forum. Enough.

sounds like i should make another.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 24, 2013, 12:25:54 AM
people really hate Jeff Green like he stole from there or something. lol

woosh
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: vinnie on January 24, 2013, 01:42:28 AM
people really hate Jeff Green like he stole from there or something. lol

woosh

I don't hate Green. I hate when people make things up about the guy and try to make him a player that he isn't. I believe he is an overpaid role player and I still can't figure out what Ainge signed him for 4 years at about $36 million. I also hate the fact that more than half the time he is on the court he wills himself invisible.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: PhoSita on January 24, 2013, 02:25:58 AM
Money to pay off my college loans.

Amen to that brother.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: ImShakHeIsShaq on January 24, 2013, 02:54:47 AM
People keep talking about starting Green so he can give us 15/6 w/ more minutes... well, PP is giving us that NOW (pretty close to his averages this month), how is that working for us? If you give Jeff the 36mins it takes him to get those stats then you are taking away a LOT of minutes from PP... if you think PP can score and do more with a lot less minutes (say the amount of mins Jeff gets now), I'd say ask Doc about that... he insists that PP needs more time to get into a flow (I'd agree b/c PP seems like a slow starter most nights). So what we will see by moving PP to the bench and giving him less minutes to accommodate the minutes Jeff NEEDS to get the 15/6 you guys want... PP getting probably the same production as Jeff (probably slightly better b/c he is PP, better naturally), how much do you think that's going to help us if all we get is maybe only a tiny bit more production from PP doing a little more than Jeff with the small mins (again, I doubt it would change seeing as PP needs more mins to get into a flow like {Doc} I mentioned before).


To the original question asked;
What we need from Green is a consistent effort out there, he should be able to get us 10pts a night at least... I don't mean what he averages because some nights he'll have like 18pts and others 2 or so, which makes it seem like he is getting us 10 a night but he isn't. We can't COUNT ON Jeff... I never go into a game night saying, at least I know Jeff is going to get us 10pts... no, most of us say, which Jeff will we see tonight or I HOPE good Jeff shows up!

Now, with all that said, Jeff isn't the problem and even if we could count on 10-12pts from him, we would still have this record or close to it, most likely... Jeff isn't close to being the problem (even though he is not helping it much)! We have much bigger problems that don't even involve Jeff but this isn't the thread for that.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: jyyzzoel on January 24, 2013, 04:20:35 AM
what do i want from jeff green?

1.  basketball IQ (his georgetown coach said he had it,but i cant see it)
2.  consistent effort - like he cares that we win a game
3.  consistent aggressiveness
4.  some form of bodily co-ordination when he drives
5.  defense (specifically making the right rotations)
5.  in 22 mins a night:

i would expect a position adjusted winscore of at least.1
in terms of per i would expect him to be at least at 16 or so for 9 million dollars.

14 points
4 rebounds
and actual defense (i think his inability to actually play defense is the biggest problem - he's too slow to laterally keep up with an opponent).
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: cltc5 on January 24, 2013, 06:08:10 AM
To be traded
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on January 24, 2013, 06:19:38 AM
Play "free".

I really believe he's strung up in the system. He's playing the way the Celtics wanted him to play, which again is not all that bad. But I want him to be confident enough to take over if he sees an opportunity.

He's bigger than some if not most SF's in the league. He's athletic enough, and a decent mid range shooter. He needs to be selfish a bit if he see's that he can take on his man. I don't want him moving the ball even though he has a smaller, not as strong SF against him just because the system tells him so.

All I'm saying I guess is I want him to be confident in his skills and his physical tools, be a bit more selfish, be unafraid and be aggressive and let the game flow to him and take advantage.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 24, 2013, 07:02:03 AM
Quote
All I'm saying I guess is I want him to be confident in his skills and his physical tools, be a bit more selfish, be unafraid and be aggressive and let the game flow to him and take advantage.


The light has not went off yet, what makes you think it will?   Mental lapses and the like take the longest to over come.   I think he has all the tools, good physical ability but doesn't have it between the ears.   Now he is no Gerald Green but he is hardly brimming with confidence or tbe mentality to assert himself and take over a game.   I have seen it once this year when he played OKC.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: mctyson on January 24, 2013, 07:10:48 AM
I just want him to play more.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: slamtheking on January 24, 2013, 08:21:03 AM

I want to know what you want from him?
I want him to play like a player that's worth his contract.  I think that's a fair expectation.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: cltc5 on January 24, 2013, 08:23:39 AM
I think it's time  to stop babying green.  All I hear is about his confidence and being assertive.   Grow up already!!!! He's a freakin NBA player gettin paid to play basketball.  It ain't that hard.  There's rookies coming into the league with more assertiveness then him. He doesn't have it regardless of what team or scenario he's on.  He's a roster space and that's all he'll ever be.   No NBA player should ever be this inconsistent with as much time in the league he's had.  We need to stop kidding ourselves that Jeff green will turn it around because he won't!
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on January 24, 2013, 11:26:34 AM
I think it's time  to stop babying green.  All I hear is about his confidence and being assertive.   Grow up already!!!! He's a freakin NBA player gettin paid to play basketball.  It ain't that hard.  There's rookies coming into the league with more assertiveness then him. He doesn't have it regardless of what team or scenario he's on.  He's a roster space and that's all he'll ever be.   No NBA player should ever be this inconsistent with as much time in the league he's had.  We need to stop kidding ourselves that Jeff green will turn it around because he won't!

Thank you for the rant.
The question remains -- what do you want from Jeff Green?
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: celtics2 on January 24, 2013, 11:42:22 AM
To pack up and leave.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: edwardjkasche on January 24, 2013, 11:51:44 AM
I want solid effort, offensive aggressiveness, and defensive intensity night-in, night-out.  The same level of energy every game (obviously a consistent bump up from what he gives now).

I don't care if he scores 20 points or 8 points.  I want him to have a positive impact on the game.

I don't want him to disappear on the court.  The worst thing a pro ball player can do is disappear on the court.  That literally means they're doing nothing to help their team win.

You must contribute something positive even when your shot isn't falling.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: indeedproceed on January 24, 2013, 12:00:30 PM
I want 12 points, 5 rebounds 3 assists, 1 steal, .5 blocks, and 2 turnovers or less in 24 minutes a night. I want him to shoot 48% from the field, 37% from 3, and to play shutdown or at least very good man to man defense on whoever the biggest opposing swingman is on the floor.

And most importantly, I want him to be able to do that every night.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: ScoobyDoo on January 24, 2013, 01:31:45 PM
kgainez:

I meant that I would like him to focus on becoming a dominant defender at the three spot. And if he were able to do that, it's all 'possible" that he could occasionally do the same at the 2 spot in the right match ups.

Kind of like Tony Allen was a lock down defender at the two but can also occasionally get on a three like Melo or LeBron and bother them as well - just not his strongest defensive spot.

I think Green can definitely be a starter on a championship team - 3rd or 4th options tarter from a scoring standpoint. You need Paul Pierce, Ray Allen level scorers in their prime to take the lead on the offensive end. I don't think Green will ever be that type of scorer.

However he could greatly increase his value by focusing on becoming a lock down defender at the three.

Then, if our team is uptempo and he's starting and playing 34-38 minutes a night at the three, I think he's "also" more than capable of putting up 14-17 points a game and 4-6 boards.

Those offensive numbers with lock down D at the three will be very well worth every penny we're paying him on his current contract.

I also think his athletic ability provides him the tools to become that type of defender - it's really up to him.

If I were coaching him I'd really push him in that direction.

Find another way to increase his value via defense.

if he can get on a guy like Lebron or Melo and give them "fits", that's the type of stuff that really helps teams win series.

Like TA on DWade or Kobe. Big factor.

I don't know if he can get there, but I'd certainly push him in that direction - his points, 14, 15 a game will come.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Fred Roberts on January 24, 2013, 01:45:40 PM
I want him to earn the additional minutes and starting role that he's capable of earning. From there, display to everyone that he is not only 100% healthy, but a more mature and more skilled professional than he was during his days in OKC (when he was 23/24 years old).
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Atzar on January 24, 2013, 02:03:15 PM
I want him to show up and play aggressive every night, rather than only when he wants to.  Everything else basically falls into place from there.  Give me 5-6 rebounds a night, too... physically there's no reason he shouldn't be one of the best rebounding SF's in the league. 

As far as long-term goals go, I want him to display noteworthy improvement in his basketball skills.  Right now he still looks the same as he did when he came into the league. 
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Q_FBE on January 24, 2013, 02:05:47 PM
In terms of current expectations, I think Jeff Green is playing pretty much to par. A little more rebounding would be nice but offense and defense is close enough to what I am expecting him to contribute this year.

What I would like to see? Long term wise. I want Jeff Green look to score less and concentrate more on improving his non-scoring contributions. On continuing to improve his defense, his rebounding and better using his ball-handling and passing capabilities to facilitate the offense. All areas he is capable of good growth.

At the small forward position, I think of J.Green more as a poor man's Tayshaun Prince than as a shot-creator (which I don't think he is particularly good at when defend by quality defensive SFs). That is the type of player I'd love to see him develop into. A poor man's Tayshaun Prince.

I want him to be a rich mans Teyshaun Prince which is better than Rashard Lewis in his heyday. I want him out there longer than Pierce and KG at this point and be a starter eventually.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Boris Badenov on January 24, 2013, 02:23:23 PM
If I restrict myself to things I think he could actually change, I would say the most important thing would be spending an entire off-season working on improving his 3 pt percentages from the corner. If he can become a 38% shooter from there, his value on offense increases dramatically.

I suggest this because 26 year old players rarely become better rebounders, or defenders. Nor do they magically go from being passive (or confused) offensively to being aggressive.

But there are many players who've improved their long-distance shooting as they age.

If Green is a plus 3 pt. shooter from the corners, it pulls the defense over to him, and also opens up more opportunities for him to drive. I think this helps the entire offense.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: dark_lord on January 24, 2013, 03:03:12 PM
no pun intended.....

i want him to play like he has this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Heart_icon_red_hollow.svg/491px-Heart_icon_red_hollow.svg.png)
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: AB_Celtic on March 20, 2013, 01:18:40 PM
Honestly, the parallels between Jeff and Pierce offensively are pretty obvious. Both can drive and finish (and draw fouls). Both can shoot the three-ball, and both have great handles for a forward. As of now, Pierce has the clutch factor and Green has the athleticism/height. I think people calling for him to add things to his offensive repertoire are being a little selfish/overzealous.

If Green can keep up his recent level of play (17ppg on 49% fg, 40% 3pt, 4.4 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.4 bpg since the All-Star break) then I am more than happy with that. I don't think anyone can argue he needs to give us any more than that to make his contract worth it.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: ItStaysYang on March 20, 2013, 01:23:47 PM
What the hell do you think we want from him? Production... Like are you expecting anyone here to say they want him to fail miserably and be an overpaid afterthought?

Threads these days...
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: kgainez on March 20, 2013, 01:26:57 PM
What the hell do you think we want from him? Production... Like are you expecting anyone here to say they want him to fail miserably and be an overpaid afterthought?

Threads these days...

hold on
my comment got deleted

first off, this thread was made in January when people where still humming and hawing over JG.

I bumped this thread because people are saying, after his 43 point night that he needs to add this and that to his game. Mainly a pull up jumper and better footwork.

which I find RIDICULOUS...because whatever he's doing works in one of the matchups we are MOST concerned with.

now if you'd like to be a valued part of this conversation, perhaps you should read the original comment and use some of the other posts as examples to what are fine answers.

smh.
Title: Re: What do you want from Jeff Green??
Post by: Fafnir on March 20, 2013, 01:32:21 PM
Kgainz check your PMs, this thread is locked.