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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: droopdog7 on January 20, 2013, 09:58:51 PM

Title: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: droopdog7 on January 20, 2013, 09:58:51 PM
This team, as constituted is mediocre at best.  We stay the course and it's the late 80s all over again.  That is clear as day.

So, seems like we have been here for the last three years.  But this time it feels real.  We try to get some size and it will cost Avery or Sully (maybe both).  Depending on who it is, that may make us better this year.  Maybe. 

Unless some team gives us a star, this team doesn't really have a chance.  I am thinking we need to do whatever we can to trade pp or kg and maybe rondo.  Time to pay the piper and start rebuilding for the future.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Who on January 20, 2013, 10:05:40 PM
I want to see more of this team with Bradley in the lineup before deciding.

Peaks and valleys so far since Bradley's return. Too extreme. Play needs to even out some before we know what we have with this team.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: CelticSooner on January 20, 2013, 10:06:45 PM
Will people be mad if Ainge pulled the plug on the season and made a trade that involved Pierce, KG, or Rondo?

The more this season goes the less it would bother me honestly. C's are a dark horse at best for a championship and I'm not sure there is a trade that can get them over the hump. Their first two scoring options are 35 and 36 with a ton of mileage.

The team will fight like dogs in the playoffs. Not sure it be enough to get further than the second round though.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: rondohondo on January 20, 2013, 10:09:37 PM
if we can get a legit big (Big Al, Gortat, Smith , Cousins , Nene) without giving up Bradley, we have an outside shot at competing , but other than that the PP and KG era is over .

PP or KG to LAC

try to get back Jordan and/or Bledsoe or similar trades with other contenders

PP and pick for Gay

Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: esel1000 on January 20, 2013, 10:09:49 PM
believe it or not im starting to think we may be close to the blow it up stage... this team has no shot of winning a championship, so why delay?
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: PhoSita on January 20, 2013, 10:10:42 PM
If the trades are there, blow it up.

Even after the nice 6 game stretch where they looked good, this team's ceiling isn't high enough to be worth keeping a "win-now" mentality.

I don't think there will be any good trades available, but if there are, Danny should absolutely blow it up.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 20, 2013, 10:11:38 PM
Can't trade KG,  PP is almost untouchable, the man to GO has to be  RONDO . for a SCORING BIG....like COusins
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 20, 2013, 10:13:56 PM
Celtics can win without ROndo , but can't win without Avery....a fact

Need a big   ...trade RONDO .
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: bello_man09 on January 20, 2013, 10:14:44 PM
Celtics can win without ROndo , but can't win without Avery....a fact

Need a big   ...trade RONDO .

Rondo is overated
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: JHTruth on January 20, 2013, 10:15:11 PM
No one amazing is coming back for our pieces. We're committed heavy into KG and PP (probably a mistake but understandable).

Go all out for Oden and see if he can get healthy. Continue to develop Fab and get Sully more involved in the offense. With Rondo, Bradley and Lee you have a decent 3 guard rotation. We need a new SF for the future, a star. Green is not it. We need to head to the draft possibly..
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: vinnie on January 20, 2013, 10:16:12 PM
Get on the phone and back up the truck, Danny. Let's get some new blood in here. This team is the epitome of mediocre. 20-20 is exactly what they are.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: albas89 on January 20, 2013, 10:17:52 PM
Blow it up. Celtics are no Hawks, being content with a tough 1st-2nd round out every year... they're all about championships. And this team's chances at a championship are ZERO!! Not close to zero... ZERO!!
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: KevinGamble on January 20, 2013, 10:18:22 PM
KG has a no trade clause contract, so you have to forget that thinking.  All the stories say he would retire before wanting to be traded.  Out of respect to KG, I think you have to be careful on what kind of blow-it-up strategy you take, because he committed to us.

I would, however like to see a big shake up trade. 

Good luck, DA!
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Shad0wman on January 20, 2013, 10:18:58 PM
Perfect time to trade everyone over 27 (incl. trading Jeff Green) for major young talent and picks. This is as good a time and opportunity to make big moves to rebuild QUICKLY.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Juneauz on January 20, 2013, 10:22:24 PM
Rondo came from a huge triple double and a 30 point game in the last two. Pierce has been SUCKING big time in the last 5 games. You gotta be kidding me with these "trade rondo talks". Pierce needs to go, and fast. Trade for a big who can run the floor and keep up with Rondo's amazing talent.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on January 20, 2013, 10:23:20 PM
Can't trade KG,  PP is almost untouchable, the man to GO has to be  RONDO . for a SCORING BIG....like COusins

fine make it happen. we have seen enough garbage from this club. disgusting. players who do not show up night in and night out can hit the road also. lost to this crappy pistons team TWICE now. TWICE. no pride whatsoever. none. nada. zilch.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: JHTruth on January 20, 2013, 10:24:15 PM
I would add now might be a good time for a Bradley for JJ Reddick trade. A Lee/Reddick/Rondo is a very nice guard rotation..
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: gpap on January 20, 2013, 10:25:55 PM
I think it's time to blow it up.

This team just doesn't have it anymore

Just look at the regular season records.

In 2007-08 and 2008-09, those Celtics teams won OVER 60 games that year.

Also, they weren't losing to medicore teams like Detroit, New Orleans, Milwaukee, Sacarmento, etc.

Yeah, maybe it's the "flipping the switch" syndrome again this year. Regardless, if that's the case, I really dislike the idea of a team playing ONLY when it feels like.

I think now might need be the time to turn off the lights on the "big 3" era. The sooner we blow it up, the sooner we return to prominence. Right now, if we hope and pray this team competes for a championship, we are going to be sadly disappointed.

Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: PhoSita on January 20, 2013, 10:26:04 PM
I would add now might be a good time for a Bradley for JJ Reddick trade. A Lee/Reddick/Rondo is a very nice guard rotation..

That's a lateral move at best . . . .
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: LarBrd33 on January 20, 2013, 10:26:36 PM
Danny will try to package some of the expendable assets and young trade chips for an upgrade.  He might be unsuccessful, but he absolutely will try.  Depends how much value a guy like Bradley or Sully really has in this league... each probably have about as much value as a late 1st rounder.  You really can't get a ton for a couple late 1st rounders and bad contracts. 

But just like you can't panic after blowing a few games, you can't overreact to a 6 game win streak.  It's a .500 team... this is what happens with a .500 team.  Still can't panic until after the trade deadline.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: JHTruth on January 20, 2013, 10:27:08 PM
I would add now might be a good time for a Bradley for JJ Reddick trade. A Lee/Reddick/Rondo is a very nice guard rotation..

That's a lateral move at best . . . .

Are you kidding me? That's a huge win for us!! Bradley can't even stay on the dang floor

Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: droopdog7 on January 20, 2013, 10:29:05 PM
Rondo came from a huge triple double and a 30 point game in the last two. Pierce has been SUCKING big time in the last 5 games. You gotta be kidding me with these "trade rondo talks". Pierce needs to go, and fast. Trade for a big who can run the floor and keep up with Rondo's amazing talent.
See, your logic is bass-ackwards.  You don't trade guys that suck while they are sucking.  You're sellin low.  You trade guys while they're value is high.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: gpap on January 20, 2013, 10:30:18 PM
I would add now might be a good time for a Bradley for JJ Reddick trade. A Lee/Reddick/Rondo is a very nice guard rotation..

That's a lateral move at best . . . .

I actually like that move. For all the praise that Bradley has gotten over the last 6 months (and rightfully so), he gets injured way too much.

And did you see him tonight? Why was he even in the game? Do I think Bradley is talented and a good defender? Yes. However, would I cut bait with him while his stock was high? Yes. Will I regret it? Maybe, but it's a chance I am willing to take.

Not to mention, for all of Bradley's praise on defense, he's inconsistent, offensively. I think JJ will give us a boost we need off the bench. You have to give to get
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Juneauz on January 20, 2013, 10:31:56 PM
Rondo came from a huge triple double and a 30 point game in the last two. Pierce has been SUCKING big time in the last 5 games. You gotta be kidding me with these "trade rondo talks". Pierce needs to go, and fast. Trade for a big who can run the floor and keep up with Rondo's amazing talent.
See, your logic is bass-ackwards.  You don't trade guys that suck while they are sucking.  You're sellin low.  You trade guys while they're value is high.

My logic is: you have an amazing player, you keep it. Try to build something around him. Give away the old and expendable.

Not that bass-ackwards, really
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: PhoSita on January 20, 2013, 10:34:54 PM
My logic is: you have an amazing player, you keep it. Try to build something around him. Give away the old and expendable.

Not that bass-ackwards, really

I think the question is: do we really have an amazing player?

Rondo is truly amazing at times.  He's come up big for this team when it matters.  But in terms of being the main man, carrying a team to 55+ wins, I'm not sure he's that guy. 

If you have a top scorer or two in place, it's hard to find a better #2 or #3 than Rondo.  But without one of those top guys, you might be disappointed more often than not depending on Rondo to shoulder the load.

I wouldn't trade Rondo lightly, but he's far from untouchable in my book.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 20, 2013, 10:37:51 PM
what so amazing about a guy that can't shoot a freethrow , turns the ballover, per TOMMY is stupidily hurting the team with lazy passes and dribbling the ball up the court like a 90 year old man. He is more moody than any old girlfriend I ever had... ;D  AWEFUL

Can't shoot very good, play aweful defense these days...

Rondo is a liability ...his lazy careless effort is embrassing. 

Dump him for a GOOD BIG
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Juneauz on January 20, 2013, 10:42:48 PM
My logic is: you have an amazing player, you keep it. Try to build something around him. Give away the old and expendable.

Not that bass-ackwards, really

I think the question is: do we really have an amazing player?

Rondo is truly amazing at times.  He's come up big for this team when it matters.  But in terms of being the main man, carrying a team to 55+ wins, I'm not sure he's that guy. 

If you have a top scorer or two in place, it's hard to find a better #2 or #3 than Rondo.  But without one of those top guys, you might be disappointed more often than not depending on Rondo to shoulder the load.

I wouldn't trade Rondo lightly, but he's far from untouchable in my book.

Agreed, we need a prolific scorer next to him, 'cause that was never rondo's role. But still he can dominate games in many other ways. If you want to be a contender you need a #2 like RR on you team!

What is Pierce doing? Nothing, nada, zero. Costing us game after game, possession after possession. I'm sorry, but he's not a go-to guy anymore. Look, I love the captain, but I can't stand people calling out Rondo every time he makes a tiny mistake and yet they're unable to criticize PP who's been playing AWFUL 5 games in a row.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: droopdog7 on January 20, 2013, 10:43:06 PM
Rondo came from a huge triple double and a 30 point game in the last two. Pierce has been SUCKING big time in the last 5 games. You gotta be kidding me with these "trade rondo talks". Pierce needs to go, and fast. Trade for a big who can run the floor and keep up with Rondo's amazing talent.
See, your logic is bass-ackwards.  You don't trade guys that suck while they are sucking.  You're sellin low.  You trade guys while they're value is high.

My logic is: you have an amazing player, you keep it. Try to build something around him. Give away the old and expendable.

Not that bass-ackwards, really
You say pierce has been bad and you want to trad him.  That part is definitely bass-ackwards.  In terms of rondo, I have a prediction.  Not only is he overrated now, I think he won't have a very long peak due to the fact that nothing about his game cones easy.  If he is a starter on a good team when he is 30, I'd be surprised.  Frankly, I think his value is about as high as it will ever get right now. 

If we can trade rondo for something good, we need to do it.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: celticinorlando on January 20, 2013, 10:48:05 PM
Beyond disappointed in terry and bass

And disappointed Danny didn't get a legit big that was worth a [dang]
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Juneauz on January 20, 2013, 10:48:56 PM
what so amazing about a guy that can't shoot a freethrow , turns the ballover, per TOMMY is stupidily hurting the team with lazy passes and dribbling the ball up the court like a 90 year old man. He is more moody than any old girlfriend I ever had... ;D  AWEFUL

Can't shoot very good, play aweful defense these days...

Rondo is a liability ...his lazy careless effort is embrassing. 

Dump him for a GOOD BIG

Won't even bother answering... you're living in a fantasy world
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: PhoSita on January 20, 2013, 11:04:21 PM
My logic is: you have an amazing player, you keep it. Try to build something around him. Give away the old and expendable.

Not that bass-ackwards, really

I think the question is: do we really have an amazing player?

Rondo is truly amazing at times.  He's come up big for this team when it matters.  But in terms of being the main man, carrying a team to 55+ wins, I'm not sure he's that guy. 

If you have a top scorer or two in place, it's hard to find a better #2 or #3 than Rondo.  But without one of those top guys, you might be disappointed more often than not depending on Rondo to shoulder the load.

I wouldn't trade Rondo lightly, but he's far from untouchable in my book.

Agreed, we need a prolific scorer next to him, 'cause that was never rondo's role. But still he can dominate games in many other ways. If you want to be a contender you need a #2 like RR on you team!

What is Pierce doing? Nothing, nada, zero. Costing us game after game, possession after possession. I'm sorry, but he's not a go-to guy anymore. Look, I love the captain, but I can't stand people calling out Rondo every time he makes a tiny mistake and yet they're unable to criticize PP who's been playing AWFUL 5 games in a row.

I guess the question is, are we likely to get a #1 to put next to Rondo anytime soon?  If trading Rondo puts us significantly closer to getting that next #1, I'm okay with it.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Smokeeye123 on January 20, 2013, 11:20:59 PM
I would be fine with either or. I would NOT be fine by standing pat at the trade deadline.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: jbaerg on January 20, 2013, 11:24:35 PM
I think ya just gotta blow it up. Would I love to see this core go far and win a another ring or at least get to the finals? Absolutely. But this is not a championship team. Just gotta move the pieces and see if we keep our current youth, as well as develop a new culture. I honestly would love if some way we could get MKG. Even in a crap environment, the guy goes all out.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Atzar on January 20, 2013, 11:38:10 PM
You watch closely for the next month and then you decide.

This team's audition is right now.  Everybody is healthy, save for various scrapes and bruises here and there.  This is when they should be learning their roles, learning their teammates and finally figuring out how to win as a team. 

They have a month left.  If they get it together, you reinforce.  If they don't, then you blow it up. 
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on January 20, 2013, 11:41:40 PM
I'm sorry but we don't have a month.. This team was built to win this year and its not cutting it. We may lose out on a chance to trade these guys NEXT month. Than what we are stuck with a team that plays .500 ball? Idk tought spot to be in but somemthing needs to be done. If we can make a move soon we could contend this year. But we cant go into next month and stay around .500 and expect to just say ok here is our bad players give us something. Or here is a vet like Pierce who is on a fairly large contract and is 35 years old. IDK just tough spot. Please Danny pull something out of somewhere and make us better.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: ManUp on January 20, 2013, 11:46:36 PM
Trade from depth to improve our talent at the top.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 21, 2013, 12:07:51 AM
I say keep the team together.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Atzar on January 21, 2013, 12:31:16 AM
I'm sorry but we don't have a month.. This team was built to win this year and its not cutting it. We may lose out on a chance to trade these guys NEXT month. Than what we are stuck with a team that plays .500 ball? Idk tought spot to be in but somemthing needs to be done. If we can make a move soon we could contend this year. But we cant go into next month and stay around .500 and expect to just say ok here is our bad players give us something. Or here is a vet like Pierce who is on a fairly large contract and is 35 years old. IDK just tough spot. Please Danny pull something out of somewhere and make us better.

We have exactly a month, actually.  That's the trading deadline.  If teams sense that we're punting this year, Danny's phone will be ringing off the hook.  You don't have to worry about players losing value. 

And frankly, I don't expect to make a major move at the deadline and all of a sudden become legitimate contenders this year.  Realistically, it takes too long to develop chemistry for that to work.  We either show that we have the ability to be a major threat or we don't.  If we do, we can make minor tweaks to improve our odds.  If we don't, we push the red button. 
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: ScottHow on January 21, 2013, 12:44:44 AM
(http://dailydamocles.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/mushroom-cloud.jpg)
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Smutzy#9 on January 21, 2013, 12:57:15 AM
I laugh at this forum after a loss. seriously thought the trade rondo chants would have stopped by now
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 21, 2013, 01:00:09 AM
The problems I have with blowing it up:

1) Who can we move?
-the usuals: Lee, Bass, Terry, Green, the end of bench guys
-the prospects: Sully, Bradley, Melo
-The Talent: Rondo, Pierce, KG

Of the usuals, Green is probably the toughest to move. Glaring disappointment in terms of monies committed. Bass is second, again for money. Lee, Terry, are a bit easier because their contracts are roughly commiserate with what they should be producing.

The prospects we should keep if we're 'blowing it up'.

The talent, KG is off the table. Pierce and Rondo are moveable, but for what? We trade Rondo for..prospects? Which guys are available that we'd want? Pierce? He's moveable, but unlikely.

The mostly likely blow it up move is with some combination of the usuals and the talent. I just don't see the combination that makes sense for anyone. Keeping Rondo makes the most sense.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Spicoli on January 21, 2013, 01:29:17 AM
Even during the win streak i felt like this team had to make a move. They just don't have the personnel to seriously compete for a title. I think Ainge either needs to make a move to get better right away, or he needs to start trading these guys and rebuilding.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: j804 on January 21, 2013, 01:34:22 AM
The problems I have with blowing it up:

1) Who can we move?
-the usuals: Lee, Bass, Terry, Green, the end of bench guys
-the prospects: Sully, Bradley, Melo
-The Talent: Rondo, Pierce, KG

Of the usuals, Green is probably the toughest to move. Glaring disappointment in terms of monies committed. Bass is second, again for money. Lee, Terry, are a bit easier because their contracts are roughly commiserate with what they should be producing.

The prospects we should keep if we're 'blowing it up'.

The talent, KG is off the table. Pierce and Rondo are moveable, but for what? We trade Rondo for..prospects? Which guys are available that we'd want? Pierce? He's moveable, but unlikely.

The mostly likely blow it up move is with some combination of the usuals and the talent. I just don't see the combination that makes sense for anyone. Keeping Rondo makes the most sense.
it'll probably be a couple of the usuals and a pick flipped for a big
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 21, 2013, 01:44:01 AM
The problems I have with blowing it up:

1) Who can we move?
-the usuals: Lee, Bass, Terry, Green, the end of bench guys
-the prospects: Sully, Bradley, Melo
-The Talent: Rondo, Pierce, KG

Of the usuals, Green is probably the toughest to move. Glaring disappointment in terms of monies committed. Bass is second, again for money. Lee, Terry, are a bit easier because their contracts are roughly commiserate with what they should be producing.

The prospects we should keep if we're 'blowing it up'.

The talent, KG is off the table. Pierce and Rondo are moveable, but for what? We trade Rondo for..prospects? Which guys are available that we'd want? Pierce? He's moveable, but unlikely.

The mostly likely blow it up move is with some combination of the usuals and the talent. I just don't see the combination that makes sense for anyone. Keeping Rondo makes the most sense.
it'll probably be a couple of the usuals and a pick flipped for a big

Probably, if it happens. Especially with the weak draft next season.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Who on January 21, 2013, 03:36:57 AM
I would add now might be a good time for a Bradley for JJ Reddick trade. A Lee/Reddick/Rondo is a very nice guard rotation..

That's a lateral move at best . . . .

I actually like that move. For all the praise that Bradley has gotten over the last 6 months (and rightfully so), he gets injured way too much.

And did you see him tonight? Why was he even in the game? Do I think Bradley is talented and a good defender? Yes. However, would I cut bait with him while his stock was high? Yes. Will I regret it? Maybe, but it's a chance I am willing to take.

Not to mention, for all of Bradley's praise on defense, he's inconsistent, offensively. I think JJ will give us a boost we need off the bench. You have to give to get

Singler was a tough matchup for Bradley. What is he 6-8, 6-9? A combo forward. Very intelligent and efficient offensively. Has a small role offensively so his attempts are few and far between (7 FGAs per game). 

Not a lot of opportunities for Bradley to get into a guy like that ... while there was a fair amount of chances for Singler to use his height advantage.

It's a tough situation. Asking a combo guard to defend a combo forward.



I think this is the type of situation where it'll be important for Bradley to develop his dribble drive game. To use his explosive speed and athleticism to punish taller slower defenders like Singler. To force the opponent to go smaller to matchup against him. To force the matchup.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Who on January 21, 2013, 04:46:30 AM
It's very tough for this team to win games when Pierce is playing as badly as he has been recently.

It's not just a normal bad game for a star talent. Pierce has been fluctuating wildly  from All-Star caliber or near All-Star caliber play to playing like a lousy backup SF.

That is a huge decrease in overall contribution. It's very hard for any team to lose that type of production from one of it's star players and still play at a high level. Boston, clearly cannot do so.



The Celtics offense is too reliant on Pierce to survive his loss. Heck, the three main guys -- Pierce + Rondo + Garnett -- whenever any of those guys are out of it, it is very tough for Boston's offense to survive.

And, I think that is partly down to Doc Rivers for failing to open up the offense more this year and get more out of an offensively talented supporting cast.

Rondo is the guy who creates good to high percentage shots for everyone. When he isn't around, the Celtics offense devolves into a series of ineffective one-on-one plays.

 When Pierce is missing in action, Boston loses their best shot-creator and nobody steps up into his place. Jeff Green isn't talented enough. Rondo isn't willing enough (to take that added scoring burden).

When Garnett isn't there, then Boston gets almost no offense from their big men corps. They need his high post play (jump-shooting and passing) to facilitate the team's offense and occasional low post play to give some variation to it's sets.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: j804 on January 21, 2013, 04:51:16 AM
It's very tough for this team to win games when Pierce is playing as badly as he has been recently.

It's not just a bad game. It's going from All-Star caliber or near All-Star caliber play to playing like a below average backup SF. It's a huge decrease in contribution. 



The Celtics offense is too reliant on Pierce to survive his loss. The three main guys, Pierce + Rondo + Garnett, whenever any of those guys are out of it, it is very tough for Boston's offense to survive. And,

I think that is partly down to Doc Rivers for failing to open up the offense more this year and get more out of an offensively talented supporting cast.
how though Terry looks cooked, Green looks scared, Lee hustles but cant make a shot, Rondo does not score and isn't aggressive unless were getting our butts handed to us
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Who on January 21, 2013, 05:01:43 AM
And, I think that is partly down to Doc Rivers for failing to open up the offense more this year and get more out of an offensively talented supporting cast.
how though Terry looks cooked, Green looks scared, Lee hustles but cant make a shot, Rondo does not score and isn't aggressive unless were getting our butts handed to us

I disagree that Jason Terry is cooked. I think he is still capable of doing what he has done in recent years. I also believe that Courtney Lee and Jeff Green in addition to Jason Terry and Avery Bradley + star players in Rajon Rondo and Paul Pierce give the Celtics multiple ball-handlers on the perimeter. Ball-handling, ball movers and some shot making. Guys who can make plays.

If the offense was less Rondo-centric, I think the team could get more out of those players individually and as a whole.

And if Doc could get Rondo to understand that the team would be better if Rondo could score a little more instead of passing (like J-Kidd did when he went to New Jersey), that would be great.

Similar to how Popovich opened up the Spurs offense when San Antonio went away from it's two bigs defensive orientated system to more skilled offensive players surrounding Duncan/Parker (Garnett/Rondo). Power forwards with jump-shooting ability. Drive and kick game based around quick penetrating PG. Multiple perimeter players who can make some plays at a moderate level.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: clover on January 21, 2013, 07:01:31 AM
It's very tough for this team to win games when Pierce is playing as badly as he has been recently.

It's not just a bad game. It's going from All-Star caliber or near All-Star caliber play to playing like a below average backup SF. It's a huge decrease in contribution. 



The Celtics offense is too reliant on Pierce to survive his loss. The three main guys, Pierce + Rondo + Garnett, whenever any of those guys are out of it, it is very tough for Boston's offense to survive. And,

I think that is partly down to Doc Rivers for failing to open up the offense more this year and get more out of an offensively talented supporting cast.
how though Terry looks cooked, Green looks scared, Lee hustles but cant make a shot, Rondo does not score and isn't aggressive unless were getting our butts handed to us

Lee is shooting .475 on the season.  Yeah, he had difficulty shooting threes in November, but he's shot .385 and .381 from there for December and January.  His shooting is not a problem.
Title: Re: Blow it up or reinforce?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 21, 2013, 07:23:51 AM
Quote
Similar to how Popovich opened up the Spurs offense when San Antonio went away from it's two bigs defensive orientated system to more skilled offensive players surrounding Duncan/Parker (Garnett/Rondo). Power forwards with jump-shooting ability. Drive and kick game based around quick penetrating PG. Multiple perimeter players who can make some plays at a moderate level.

We have been perimeter oriented since Doc got here.   I think our lack of post game hurts us more than this because no one is a valid threat down low save KG.  PP can post up but he rarely does it.  All teams have to do is have a big to rebound and guard the perimeter and you have the secret to stopping us.   KG plays a lot on the perimeter, we spread the floor and they spread their D.  The league has caught up to us.