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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: MattyIce on January 19, 2013, 05:26:44 PM

Title: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: MattyIce on January 19, 2013, 05:26:44 PM
could they use one of our guards and Bass?  more likely now?
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: hpantazo on January 19, 2013, 05:28:28 PM
losing Josh Smith would be much more of a blow to their playoff hopes than losing Lou Williams.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Smitty77 on January 19, 2013, 06:06:11 PM
Danny Ferry was talking about trading for an All-Star type player to go WITH Josh, but I think that was before Lou went down for the year.

I bet Danny now completely shifts to a win later plan and not the win now plan.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/1/19/3893510/nba-trade-rumors-2013-josh-smith-hawks

Smitty77
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: csfansince60s on January 19, 2013, 06:15:22 PM
losing Josh Smith would be much more of a blow to their playoff hopes than losing Lou Williams.

They are a team in disarray, not happy with JSmoove since they suspended him. This is hurting their playoff hopes as much, if not more as Lou Williams being out.

Consequently, I agree that losing Williams may give them some impetus to get a guard (Lee could start for them next to Teague)and if Smith isn't happy in Atlanta, and Atlanta isn't happy with him they will need a PF to replace him (Jeff Green) or two (Sullinger), and Green can also play the 3.

Not saying it's gonna happen, just saying that with Smith's situation and its obvious very negative effect on the team and with Wms out, I can easily see Ferry trying a 1 for 3 to fill his roster.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: lon3lytoaster on January 19, 2013, 06:23:38 PM
I still sometimes chuckle to myself when I think about how Smith cost Atlanta playoff games, especially against us, with his boneheaded decisions. Kid is dumb.

With that said, if I woke up tomorrow morning and saw Smith was replacing Bass in our starting lineup I would cry tears of joy.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: MattyIce on January 19, 2013, 06:31:19 PM
losing Josh Smith would be much more of a blow to their playoff hopes than losing Lou Williams.

I agree but I'm just thinking they are less likely to be building around an unhappy Smith for this year (likely losing him at the end of the year anyways) now that Lou is out, more likely to look towards next year with some wholes filled, between maybe lee and bass/sully or lee and green
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Kane3387 on January 19, 2013, 06:35:27 PM
I was at the game. Happened right in front of my section. You knew right away it was season ending.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: csfansince60s on January 19, 2013, 06:36:57 PM
losing Josh Smith would be much more of a blow to their playoff hopes than losing Lou Williams.

I agree but I'm just thinking they are less likely to be building around an unhappy Smith for this year (likely losing him at the end of the year anyways) now that Lou is out, more likely to look towards next year with some wholes filled, between maybe lee and bass/sully or lee and green

Is there an echo in here? (see 4th post in this thread)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

TP, matteo for your similar thoughts and having to endure a little kidding. ;)
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: gpap on January 19, 2013, 06:42:08 PM
I actually like this trade for both the Celts and Hawks

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aojqtfo
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Birdman on January 19, 2013, 06:59:02 PM
I actually like this trade for both the Celts and Hawks

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aojqtfo
they not trading Horford
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Smokeeye123 on January 19, 2013, 06:59:36 PM
I actually like this trade for both the Celts and Hawks

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aojqtfo

That is a good trade and I'd do it in a second, however a lot of people on here are forever against giving Rondo up in a trade. but honestly, he's going to want MAX contract in  2 years and is he really worth that?
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Birdman on January 19, 2013, 07:00:18 PM
I dont think Hawks would trade Smith to us. They dont like us!
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 19, 2013, 07:02:36 PM
Wow what a terrible blow for the hawks. Can't see them being in "win now mode" without Williams playing. I really want smith but I just don't think we match up with them. They're probably looking for expirings along with young cheap talent to build around. I don't think I wanna give up sully an Bradley however. Although Bradley might fit with Williams now out.

Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: gpap on January 19, 2013, 07:02:45 PM
I dont think Hawks would trade Smith to us. They dont like us!

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing (lol.)

I think Danny Ferry holds a grudge vs Boston, because after we dismantled the Cavs in that final year Lebron was there, Ferry lost his job.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Birdman on January 19, 2013, 07:07:38 PM
I dont think Hawks would trade Smith to us. They dont like us!

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing (lol.)

I think Danny Ferry holds a grudge vs Boston, because after we dismantled the Cavs in that final year Lebron was there, Ferry lost his job.
Plus he told on Rondo!!!
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: gpap on January 19, 2013, 07:16:38 PM
I dont think Hawks would trade Smith to us. They dont like us!

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing (lol.)

I think Danny Ferry holds a grudge vs Boston, because after we dismantled the Cavs in that final year Lebron was there, Ferry lost his job.
Plus he told on Rondo!!!

I know. I swear the whole league hates the Celtics for whatever reason (Carmelo, Noah, Ferry, the officials, you name it, lol.)

It's why this year I want us to win a title SO BAD it's not even funny so we can shove it in the whole league's face
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: gpap on January 19, 2013, 07:20:38 PM
For those who don't know what I am referring to with Noah, see below

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/8859122/joakim-noah-chicago-bulls-calls-kevin-garnett-boston-celtics-dirty-player
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: crimson_stallion on January 19, 2013, 07:26:41 PM
People keep saying Josh Smith hurt Atlanta in the Playoffs, but is absolutely untrue.   Josh Smith was the only reason Atlanta even pushed us to 6 games in the playoffs, without him we probably would have swept them or beat them in 5 games.

He was an absolute beast against us and was killing as constantly on both ends of the floor.  The fact that he took one or two bad shots at times is irrelevant because he (by far) did more good for Atlanta against us then he did bad. He was averaging something like 17 points and 13 rebounds, he hurt us with his scoring, and he did a good job against us on defense.  He almost single handedly won them a number of those games.

Also people complained about him taking too many jumpers, but he hit a lot of midrange jump shots against us in the playofs and that hurt us because it helped to stretch our defense so that guys like Williams, Turner and Holiday could penetrate.  Sure he may not be a KG calibre jump-shooter, but he is a decent midrange shooter.

I don't understand how people criticise his shot selection so much, because Rondo takes at least as many bad shots (bail-out three's early in the shot clock, contested jumpers when other guys are open, etc) as Smith does, and most of us are happy to have him here! 

The important thing is that Smith is an incredibly talented and versatile big man who has the ability to play and defend three positions (SF to C).  He can impact games in a number of ways and this is clear by looking at this stats:

Last season: 18.8 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, 1.7 BPG
This season: 16.4 PPG, 8.3 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.3 SPG, 2.3 BPG

Smith is an above average rebounder, an above average scorer, and elite passer and an elite defender at his position.  He has the potential for a triple double any night, and he could be our defensive anchor once KG retires if we could (unlikely) manage to get him here.

In fact Smith is probably the only free agent I can think of right now that I'd consider trading Sully for.   

Imagine a defensive frontline of Smith and KG now?  Imagine the defense of Smith + Bradley in the future? I'd love to get this guy!
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Kane3387 on January 19, 2013, 08:09:35 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a65ohd8

This might actually work. Sully is looking like a nice prospect and so is fab. I still move sully for smith. I'm a sully fan but there is always a chance he peaks like Dejuan Blaire.

We would have to sign a sf. Even tho smith can play that some. We could sign Kenyon Martin also.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b766a38

Or this above.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 19, 2013, 08:43:36 PM
Smith is a big and a nice one and good Celtics fit , but NOT a center. I'm all for getting him just NOT at the COST of our 7 ft project Fab Melo.  Even average 7 cneters are huge money today.  I think in the end Melo will be a steal.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Roy H. on January 19, 2013, 08:47:42 PM
I bet Danny [Ferry] now completely shifts to a win later plan and not the win now plan.

I think that's probably right. 
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Kuberski1 on January 19, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
A shame to see Williams go down...he was playing well, and I personally like watching him play.

Even if it increases the likelihood of Smith getting traded, I still think the odds are low that we get him - I just don't see us as having the most attractive deal for him.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Lucky17 on January 19, 2013, 11:47:48 PM
Ferry's plan doesn't change one whit: preserve as much cap space as possible going into the offseason, and decide then whether to resign Josh Smith, or trade him.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Smitty77 on January 19, 2013, 11:54:46 PM
Thanks Roy!!

I hope this helps us get Josh:-)))
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 19, 2013, 11:56:23 PM
Ferry's plan doesn't change one whit: preserve as much cap space as possible going into the offseason, and decide then whether to resign Josh Smith, or trade him.

The only thing Id add is that Williams injury makes trading Smith for expirings and prospects/picks more likely.

But we only got one of those.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Lucky17 on January 20, 2013, 12:01:30 AM
Ferry's plan doesn't change one whit: preserve as much cap space as possible going into the offseason, and decide then whether to resign Josh Smith, or trade him.

The only thing Id add is that Williams injury makes trading Smith for expirings and prospects/picks more likely.

But we only got one of those.

I honestly don't think Ferry moves Josh Smith until he knows for sure what's going to happen with Dwight Howard this offseason.

I believe the Hawks have enough cap room to offer max contracts to both Josh Smith and his "good, good friend."

Potential projected lineup:

PG: Teague
SG: Stevenson
SF: Smith
PF: Horford
C:  Howard
6th: Lou Williams
Bench: John Jenkins, Ivan Johnson, 2013 1st rounder, free agents at vet min
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on January 20, 2013, 12:32:03 AM
We would probably need to get a third team involved. I know the hawks don't wanna add more contracts.. but i desperately want Smith on this team.. Defense would be insane

Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Smith
KG

Wow
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 20, 2013, 12:34:54 AM
Ferry's plan doesn't change one whit: preserve as much cap space as possible going into the offseason, and decide then whether to resign Josh Smith, or trade him.

The only thing Id add is that Williams injury makes trading Smith for expirings and prospects/picks more likely.

But we only got one of those.

I honestly don't think Ferry moves Josh Smith until he knows for sure what's going to happen with Dwight Howard this offseason.

I believe the Hawks have enough cap room to offer max contracts to both Josh Smith and his "good, good friend."

Potential projected lineup:

PG: Teague
SG: Stevenson
SF: Smith
PF: Horford
C:  Howard
6th: Lou Williams
Bench: John Jenkins, Ivan Johnson, 2013 1st rounder, free agents at vet min

The thing about that lineup is that it REEKS of second round exit. Smith is the primary shot creator, Teague is up and down. Defensively it's a winner but it's pretty flawed as a real unit.

This is just me back-seat GMing, but they need a legitimate 2 or 3 who can create his own shot.

Honestly Paul Pierce makes the most sense, but that's a pretty iffy proposition for Atlanta.

Dunno who they'd get though. Monta Ellis? (Gross)

Ironically, Joe Johnson? Hilarious.

Kyle Lowry? That'd be something.

Nope, I got it. Danillo Gallinari. ESPN trade machine fantasy, GO! Form of, boredom!
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: jdz101 on January 20, 2013, 12:35:26 AM
Ill just drop this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk9uQ9l0ow0

Chreest Almeety!
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 20, 2013, 12:40:49 AM
Atlanta Trades: Smith
Denver Trades: Gallo

Denver fields a lineup of

Lawson/Miller
Iggy/Chandler
Chandler/Smith
Smith/Faried
KouVale McKoufos

Atlanta saves $4 per season off of Smith's last contract, still preserves cap space.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: manl_lui on January 20, 2013, 12:42:06 AM
[dang] it, there goes my fantasy!

need to find another guard :-\
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: jdz101 on January 20, 2013, 12:42:33 AM

KouVale McKoufos

That would actually be a pretty reasonable player.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Smokeeye123 on January 20, 2013, 01:09:39 AM
I posted on the Atlanta Hawks forum and they were all for Rondo/Sullinger for Horford/Teague...Maybe we are overvaluing Horford?
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: indeedproceed on January 20, 2013, 01:20:43 AM
I posted on the Atlanta Hawks forum and they were all for Rondo/Sullinger for Horford/Teague...Maybe we are overvaluing Horford?

I don't think that trade overvalues Horford, I think it undervalues Rondo and Sullinger.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: moiso on January 20, 2013, 06:24:49 AM
I posted on the Atlanta Hawks forum and they were all for Rondo/Sullinger for Horford/Teague...Maybe we are overvaluing Horford?

I don't think that trade overvalues Horford, I think it undervalues Rondo and Sullinger.
Captain Over speaking, over.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: scaryjerry on January 20, 2013, 08:37:23 AM
I posted on the Atlanta Hawks forum and they were all for Rondo/Sullinger for Horford/Teague...Maybe we are overvaluing Horford?

yeah it's actually this rare thing where other teams fans value our best player more then most Celtics fans do...that's an abysmal trade for us.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: scaryjerry on January 20, 2013, 08:40:09 AM
I posted on the Atlanta Hawks forum and they were all for Rondo/Sullinger for Horford/Teague...Maybe we are overvaluing Horford?

I don't think that trade overvalues Horford, I think it undervalues Rondo and Sullinger.


which means it overvalues horford? he's not even close to worth that package. yawn.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: scaryjerry on January 20, 2013, 08:42:38 AM
I actually like this trade for both the Celts and Hawks

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aojqtfo
they not trading Horford

we not trading rondo  ;)
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Birdman on January 20, 2013, 10:03:51 AM
Yes, Rondo is not going to be traded. C's be crazy if they do. I still think Smith will be traded but to a western conference team. Also think Milsap will be traded and keep a close eye on that
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: KevinGamble on January 20, 2013, 10:45:35 AM
I actually like this trade for both the Celts and Hawks

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aojqtfo

wow,  that is interesting.  TP
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: slamtheking on January 20, 2013, 10:54:51 AM
I posted on the Atlanta Hawks forum and they were all for Rondo/Sullinger for Horford/Teague...Maybe we are overvaluing Horford?
of course they'd be all for it.  they're getting the best player in the deal by far and a [dang] good rookie for a just a good PF that has recent health issues and a mediocre PG. 

the fact another team's fans were all for the deal should have set off that red flag warning to tip you off it's a really bad deal for the C's.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on January 20, 2013, 11:30:01 AM
I say Danny is working on a 3 way deal to get us Josh. He would help so much. The thing is someone has to send some expirings to Atlanta cause they are banking on having a lot of money in the off-season. So if we could load off Bass Lee and Melo or something of that nature we might be able to get a 3rd team in there and help us out.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Birdman on January 20, 2013, 11:58:28 AM
I say Danny is working on a 3 way deal to get us Josh. He would help so much. The thing is someone has to send some expirings to Atlanta cause they are banking on having a lot of money in the off-season. So if we could load off Bass Lee and Melo or something of that nature we might be able to get a 3rd team in there and help us out.
Question is: Who wants to play in Atlanta??
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: Birdman on January 20, 2013, 12:02:48 PM
Getting a big time FA to play in Atlanta, well good luck there
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: WeMadeIt17 on January 20, 2013, 12:18:16 PM
Getting a big time FA to play in Atlanta, well good luck there


I agree but i'm pretty sure thats atlanta's plan right now.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: slamtheking on January 20, 2013, 01:44:03 PM
Getting a big time FA to play in Atlanta, well good luck there


I agree but i'm pretty sure thats atlanta's plan right now.
Personally speaking, I found Atlanta to be a pretty fun town when I went there so any FA's might be persuaded to go there.  Add in that they may still have Horford, Teague, Williams and possibly still have Smith, that's not a bad team to try and go for a title.  If Atlanta manages their cap well this offseason, I wouldn't say DH would be an impossible signing.
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: TripleOT on January 20, 2013, 01:52:45 PM
The way they're trending (2-8 their last 10 games), the Will probably be at .500 or less by the trade deadline.  All Smith has to do is make a lot of noise about not re-signing this summer or agreeing to any S and T and Ferry will have no choice than to trade him. 

I have a feeling that the fix is in with Smith and he and Rondo have conspired for Smith to force his way to Boston, either this year, or this summer in a S and T. 
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: csfansince60s on January 20, 2013, 03:03:15 PM
The way they're trending (2-8 their last 10 games), the Will probably be at .500 or less by the trade deadline.  All Smith has to do is make a lot of noise about not re-signing this summer or agreeing to any S and T and Ferry will have no choice than to trade him. 

I have a feeling that the fix is in with Smith and he and Rondo have conspired for Smith to force his way to Boston, either this year, or this summer in a S and T.

As much as I would like Smith here (and I am only speaking for me here), I would feel pretty hypocritical if he forced his way here {a la Carmelo/DHoward and the conspiring (probably should be called collusion and tampering)of the Miami3}, and I embraced that idea.

I know that it's naive of me, but I was so against what Melo/Howard/Miami 3 did, that I'd feel dirty if I supported Smith forcing his way somewhere like those spoiled brats did. But again, that's being Polyanna-ish in the new-world order of the NBA.

And, people could make the argument that our "enemies" have benfitted from this course of action, why not us? And then we get into the Machiavellian argument as to whether the "ends justify the means."

I guess the answer is "sometimes".
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: TripleOT on January 20, 2013, 03:38:25 PM
The way they're trending (2-8 their last 10 games), the Will probably be at .500 or less by the trade deadline.  All Smith has to do is make a lot of noise about not re-signing this summer or agreeing to any S and T and Ferry will have no choice than to trade him. 

I have a feeling that the fix is in with Smith and he and Rondo have conspired for Smith to force his way to Boston, either this year, or this summer in a S and T.

As much as I would like Smith here (and I am only speaking for me here), I would feel pretty hypocritical if he forced his way here {a la Carmelo/DHoward and the conspiring (probably should be called collusion and tampering)of the Miami3}, and I embraced that idea.

I know that it's naive of me, but I was so against what Melo/Howard/Miami 3 did, that I'd feel dirty if I supported Smith forcing his way somewhere like those spoiled brats did. But again, that's being Polyanna-ish in the new-world order of the NBA.

And, people could make the argument that our "enemies" have benfitted from this course of action, why not us? And then we get into the Machiavellian argument as to whether the "ends justify the means."

I guess the answer is "sometimes".
Title: Re: Lou Williams out for the year, increase chance of trade with ATL for Smith?
Post by: KGs Knee on January 20, 2013, 05:00:07 PM
Can't say I have much problem with players forcing traded to their desired destination.

As a player; if you have the leverage, you better use it.  The owners do.