CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rocknrollforyoursoul on January 19, 2013, 03:35:39 AM
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You want to know why the Celtics lost this game?
Lucky shots? Those certainly helped, but that was only two plays.
Bad refs? I agree that the refs were bad, but the only time I feel comfortable pinning a loss on bad officiating is when the team plays well virtually the whole game and then gets shafted at the very end. That's not what happened tonight.
Tonight, the Celtics shot themselves in the foot, and it started in the first quarter.
Chicago had 8 turnovers in the first quarter—EIGHT—but the Celtics got only a measly 4 points off those turnovers:
Barbosa gets a steal, and Pierce misses a jumper
Pierce gets a steal, Rondo misses a jumper
Bass gets a steal, then commits a traveling violation
Sully gets a steal, Rondo gets a dunk
Lee gets a steal, Pierce misses a layup
Deng throws the ball away, then Rondo throws it right back
Boozer travels, then Rondo misses a jump shot
Lee gets a steal, Rondo hits a jumper
There was also a Barbosa missed layup, and missed open jumpers by Bass (twice) and Lee (thrice).
Second quarter featured three more Chicago turnovers, but the Cs got only 2 points out of them:
Noah throws it away, Garnett commits offensive foul
Deng throws it away, Garnett missed jumper
Bass gets the steal, Rondo makes the layup
Also, Pierce misses wide-open three pointers on consecutive possessions.
That's 11 first-half turnovers for Chicago resulting in only 6 Boston points, and a host of missed open looks, which, if close to half are made, would've given Boston another 8-10 points.
Also: Pierce shot 5 for 17, KG 5 for 16 overall (6 of 10 FTs). KG doesn't take 16 shots when he's on, so I don't know why he shot so many times tonight when he was clearly off. Pierce has been in a funk for several games now, and some of his shots were quite flat.
Also would've been nice if Green had attempted more than 4 shots.
Some people like to say that games are won or lost in crunch time. I say that wins and losses can be traced back to what happened throughout the course of a game. Missed opportunities.
P.S.: Loved how Rondo kept taking it to the hoop in the first half, and congratulations to Sully for another awesome effort on the boards (15, 5 offensive).
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we lost because of the refs. it was a home game. There is no such thing as home field advantage for the celtics. might as well go for the 8th seed since anything higher is useless.
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Refs had a bunch of phantom calls and clearly gave them the game with the jump ball to Pierce... but The celtics were up with 12 seconds left in regulation, then they were up with like 14 left on OT... gave up buckets both time. Refs tried to give it to Bulls but in the end the Celtics still should have won.
By the way Jeff Green was useless again. 1-4 and literally didn't pick up a single statistic outside of those 4 attempts, no assists, rebounds, steals, hell he didn't even commit a foul or a turnover. Make it known that you were in the game... dude you did absolutely nothing.
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Refs had a bunch of phantom calls and clearly gave them the game with the jump ball to Pierce... but The celtics were up with 12 seconds left in regulation, then they were up with like 14 left on OT... gave up buckets both time. Refs tried to give it to Bulls but in the end the Celtics still should have won.
By the way Jeff Green was useless again. 1-4 and literally didn't pick up a single statistic outside of those 4 attempts, no assists, rebounds, steals, hell he didn't even commit a foul or a turnover. Make it known that you were in the game... dude you did absolutely nothing.
Jeff played some decent defense on Deng for a stretch but he was for the most part a non factor. Him and Bass were pretty frustrating to watch, same for Pierce and KG.
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I thought "Barnabas Collins" Heinrich clearly pushed Rondo on the 6th foul into the opposing man.
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I thought they lost because Pierce played a particularly horrible game, highlighted by him getting trapped and giving up a jump ball with 9 secs left, when we had 1 timeout left.
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Yea, Im not puting this on the refs, becasue we still had a chance to win. If we win, there's probably kess complaint about the refs. Its' just a natural reaction I supposes. Even thought they were pretty horrendous, we still coulda/shoulda won. Just one of those tough losses :(
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I thought they lost because Pierce played a particularly horrible game, highlighted by him getting trapped and giving up a jump ball with 9 secs left, when we had 1 timeout left.
that was bad
scal right away said I don't like that play when you put the ball in you have 2 sidelines and 2 defenders, tp for him on that one
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
Don't see the need to single out Green, particularly when KG, Pierce, and Rondo shooting as much as they did. Might as well mention Barbosa and Sully who also had poor shooting nights.
But the blame still has to go to KG and Pierce. Absurd amount of shots on an off night, and both did a very poor job moving the ball, no need to involve anyone else in our offensive problems in this game.
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im sorry but it was.
We are up by 2, if that foul was called more than likely we'll be up by 4. And that's ball game.
Instead they missed the fact that Paul got hounded, arms hitting his arms and they called a jump ball. Leading to this and that.
The refs blew it for us.
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we lost because of Rondo... Remember stat #'s lie. Rondo could've scored 50 points 2nite it wouldn't have mattered. C's desperately needs a back-up point guard like Ramon Sessions. I think we should trade for him.
We also lost because Pierce had a poor shooting night. Anyhow we stink. that 6 game winning streak was a fluke. Come Feb. Danny better have a yard sale of players moving out or he'll find himself getting put out. How could we not beat a team that doesn't have their best player playing & we have all of our guys playing. ??? I'm not buying in to this team until something drastically gets changed.
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
Don't see the need to single out Green, particularly when KG, Pierce, and Rondo shooting as much as they did. Might as well mention Barbosa and Sully who also had poor shooting nights.
Jeff Green absolutely sucked last night. No offense (1-for-4), no movement, no energy, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks. Offensively, he hurt, and defensively he was a non-factor.
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Yea, Im not puting this on the refs, becasue we still had a chance to win. If we win, there's probably kess complaint about the refs. Its' just a natural reaction I supposes. Even thought they were pretty horrendous, we still coulda/shoulda won. Just one of those tough losses :(
So because we had a chance to win its not on the refs ? That has got to be the worst logic EVER. I guess the 2002 lakers kings game 6 wasn't on the refs either.
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
Don't see the need to single out Green, particularly when KG, Pierce, and Rondo shooting as much as they did. Might as well mention Barbosa and Sully who also had poor shooting nights.
Jeff Green absolutely sucked last night. No offense (1-for-4), no movement, no energy, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks. Offensively, he hurt, and defensively he was a non-factor.
He played defense well, so don't know what you're talking about on that regard, and I don't care about the rebounds as our team actually rebounded well, I don't concern myself about who's grabbing the rebounds as long as he had a Celtic's jersey on.
The problem was Pierce and KG, who didn't care to move the ball... the whole game they were taking ill advised shots, in traffic surrounded by 2 or 3 players, while various Celtics players were open. It was very evident to me with Terry on the floor that was getting a bit peeved at not getting any touches particularly when he was constantly open in the corner... until they finally gave it to him and he buried a 3.
That Green hurt us offensively is a very big stretch when he only took 4 shots. He didn't have a good game offensively, but I wouldn't go as far as pointing out that he hurt us in any significant manner, or find the need to single him out as the problem, because it wasn't. He was a non-factor offensively, that's as far as I think is worth pointing out, but I think the major problem was the lack of ball movement once the ball touched either KG's or Pierce's hands more than anything.
Green was +5 for the game, highest for our team, so go figure...
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+/- stat about as useless in my opinion as the three refs last night ...and I agree that the refs were terrible and we got some very bad calls but as rockinrollyoursoul said...we lost primarily because of Doc, PP and JET in my opinion....
But opinions are about as worth as much as the =/- stat category ...
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I thought they lost because Pierce played a particularly horrible game, highlighted by him getting trapped and giving up a jump ball with 9 secs left, when we had 1 timeout left.
While this isn't the only reason the Celts lost, not calling a timeout to save a possession late in the game seems to be something I notice on a regular basis. Some player will get into a bad situation, I'll know a turnover is coming and the timeout that I hope for rarely comes. Pierce trapped on the baseline by 2 good defenders when he's picked up his dribble is highly unlikely to go well for the Celts.
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
Don't see the need to single out Green, particularly when KG, Pierce, and Rondo shooting as much as they did. Might as well mention Barbosa and Sully who also had poor shooting nights.
Jeff Green absolutely sucked last night. No offense (1-for-4), no movement, no energy, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks. Offensively, he hurt, and defensively he was a non-factor.
Jeff Green just can not take only 4 shots.
Last night we saw the timid Green. I hate timid Green.
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KG and Paul are old....Old dudes take jumpshots....jumpshots sometimes don't go in....especially when you're old and don't have the same lift in your legs you once did.
Stupid Doc...played KG 20 straight minutes to end that game.
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
Don't see the need to single out Green, particularly when KG, Pierce, and Rondo shooting as much as they did. Might as well mention Barbosa and Sully who also had poor shooting nights.
Jeff Green absolutely sucked last night. No offense (1-for-4), no movement, no energy, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks. Offensively, he hurt, and defensively he was a non-factor.
Jeff Green just can not take only 4 shots.
Last night we saw the timid Green. I hate timid Green.
I just think that's false. I saw Green calling for the ball in the post multiple times, and not once do I recall the pass being made to him.
Jeff Green is simply a role player on this team, and just like Lee and Terry some nights they'll get a lot of touches and opportunities to shoot the ball, other nights they'll barely touch it despite how they make themselves available. The way Doc's system works it'll always be like this.
Yesterday I felt it was more of an offense that didn't care to feed Jeff Green than Jeff Green being passive and uninvolved. The evidence is on how KG and Pierce played, no need to go further than that. One particular play I recall is Jeff Green on a fast-break, an opportunity for Rondo to give him the ball, instead what Green did was that he sealed off his man that allowed Rondo to get to the rim despite there being like 4 Bulls jersey's around, but that doesn't show up stat wise.
Jeff Green was ineffective with the small amount of touches he got though, but not worth pointing out I feel as being THE problem last night... in the scheme of things, insignificant.
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KG and Paul are old....Old dudes take jumpshots....jumpshots sometimes don't go in....especially when you're old and don't have the same lift in your legs you once did.
Stupid Doc...played KG 20 straight minutes to end that game.
And, he played a total of 39 minutes. That's awesome. I doubt Doc will get in the habit of it, but it's nice to see that he's starting to feel more comfortable giving KG bigger minutes.
Based on the fact that KG was playing like a bona fide superstar throughout last year's playoffs, I'm not going to question Doc's handling of his regular season minutes. How he's handled KG's minutes is definitely one of Rivers' strengths.
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KG and Paul are old....Old dudes take jumpshots....jumpshots sometimes don't go in....especially when you're old and don't have the same lift in your legs you once did.
Stupid Doc...played KG 20 straight minutes to end that game.
And, he played a total of 39 minutes. That's awesome. I doubt Doc will get in the habit of it, but it's nice to see that he's starting to feel more comfortable giving KG bigger minutes.
Based on the fact that KG was playing like a bona fide superstar throughout last year's playoffs, I'm not going to question Doc's handling of his regular season minutes. How he's handled KG's minutes is definitely one of Rivers' strengths.
when KG plays a ton of minutes he is less effective though, you saw it with tons of shots he was front rimming.
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
Don't see the need to single out Green, particularly when KG, Pierce, and Rondo shooting as much as they did. Might as well mention Barbosa and Sully who also had poor shooting nights.
Jeff Green absolutely sucked last night. No offense (1-for-4), no movement, no energy, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks. Offensively, he hurt, and defensively he was a non-factor.
Jeff Green just can not take only 4 shots.
Last night we saw the timid Green. I hate timid Green.
I just think that's false. I saw Green calling for the ball in the post multiple times, and not once do I recall the pass being made to him.
Jeff Green is simply a role player on this team, and just like Lee and Terry some nights they'll get a lot of touches and opportunities to shoot the ball, other nights they'll barely touch it despite how they make themselves available. The way Doc's system works it'll always be like this.
Yesterday I felt it was more of an offense that didn't care to feed Jeff Green than Jeff Green being passive and uninvolved. The evidence is on how KG and Pierce played, no need to go further than that. One particular play I recall is Jeff Green on a fast-break, an opportunity for Rondo to give him the ball, instead what Green did was that he sealed off his man that allowed Rondo to get to the rim despite there being like 4 Bulls jersey's around, but that doesn't show up stat wise.
Jeff Green was ineffective with the small amount of touches he got though, but not worth pointing out I feel as being THE problem last night... in the scheme of things, insignificant.
I'm a big Jeff supporter when a lot of people call him out but agree with Roy here Jeff was awful, everytime he touched the ball all he did was swing it. He didn't want any part of anything he just stood out there on the 3pt line. Defensively he played some decent defense on Deng for a stretch but thats all.
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KG and Paul are old....Old dudes take jumpshots....jumpshots sometimes don't go in....especially when you're old and don't have the same lift in your legs you once did.
Stupid Doc...played KG 20 straight minutes to end that game.
And, he played a total of 39 minutes. That's awesome. I doubt Doc will get in the habit of it, but it's nice to see that he's starting to feel more comfortable giving KG bigger minutes.
Based on the fact that KG was playing like a bona fide superstar throughout last year's playoffs, I'm not going to question Doc's handling of his regular season minutes. How he's handled KG's minutes is definitely one of Rivers' strengths.
when KG plays a ton of minutes he is less effective though, you saw it with tons of shots he was front rimming.
Sure, but one of Doc's main jobs is to get KG ready to play an effective 36 MPG once the playoffs roll around. He's done a really nice job of this since KG came back from that knee surgery. I'm certainly not going to second guess his decisions on a game to game basis. I trust that Doc knows what he's doing here.
He'd probably admit that he let KG's minutes get away from him more than he would have liked in last night's game, but, to me, the big picture is always more important than each individual game.
I think Doc is a great big picture coach, and I think we have a team who really knows how to play with the big picture in mind.
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They look tired. They've been playing a game almost every other day it seems. The all star break should do them good. I wish kg wasn't playing in it.
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
Don't see the need to single out Green, particularly when KG, Pierce, and Rondo shooting as much as they did. Might as well mention Barbosa and Sully who also had poor shooting nights.
Jeff Green absolutely sucked last night. No offense (1-for-4), no movement, no energy, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks. Offensively, he hurt, and defensively he was a non-factor.
He played defense well, so don't know what you're talking about on that regard, and I don't care about the rebounds as our team actually rebounded well, I don't concern myself about who's grabbing the rebounds as long as he had a Celtic's jersey on.
The problem was Pierce and KG, who didn't care to move the ball... the whole game they were taking ill advised shots, in traffic surrounded by 2 or 3 players, while various Celtics players were open. It was very evident to me with Terry on the floor that was getting a bit peeved at not getting any touches particularly when he was constantly open in the corner... until they finally gave it to him and he buried a 3.
That Green hurt us offensively is a very big stretch when he only took 4 shots. He didn't have a good game offensively, but I wouldn't go as far as pointing out that he hurt us in any significant manner, or find the need to single him out as the problem, because it wasn't. He was a non-factor offensively, that's as far as I think is worth pointing out, but I think the major problem was the lack of ball movement once the ball touched either KG's or Pierce's hands more than anything.
Green was +5 for the game, highest for our team, so go figure...
He played defense well against Deng who was playing on a bad hamstring and left the game in the second half and never returned. Jeff Green brings nothing to this team most of the time he is on the court. He is an infuriating basketball player. And, +/- is a dumb stat in general, and really dumb for just one game -- just my opinion.
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There were lots of reasons we lost. Terrible offense for much of the game (especially from Pierce, KG, and Green), missed free throws, and that atrocious jump ball call were some of the biggest.
Don't see the need to single out Green, particularly when KG, Pierce, and Rondo shooting as much as they did. Might as well mention Barbosa and Sully who also had poor shooting nights.
Jeff Green absolutely sucked last night. No offense (1-for-4), no movement, no energy, zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks. Offensively, he hurt, and defensively he was a non-factor.
He played defense well, so don't know what you're talking about on that regard, and I don't care about the rebounds as our team actually rebounded well, I don't concern myself about who's grabbing the rebounds as long as he had a Celtic's jersey on.
The problem was Pierce and KG, who didn't care to move the ball... the whole game they were taking ill advised shots, in traffic surrounded by 2 or 3 players, while various Celtics players were open. It was very evident to me with Terry on the floor that was getting a bit peeved at not getting any touches particularly when he was constantly open in the corner... until they finally gave it to him and he buried a 3.
That Green hurt us offensively is a very big stretch when he only took 4 shots. He didn't have a good game offensively, but I wouldn't go as far as pointing out that he hurt us in any significant manner, or find the need to single him out as the problem, because it wasn't. He was a non-factor offensively, that's as far as I think is worth pointing out, but I think the major problem was the lack of ball movement once the ball touched either KG's or Pierce's hands more than anything.
Green was +5 for the game, highest for our team, so go figure...
He played defense well against Deng who was playing on a bad hamstring and left the game in the second half and never returned.
Jeff wasn't in the game for much longer anyways, so your point is? Actually he played a some in the 4th too, but nothing of consequence happened regardless. The point anyways is that pointing out Green being a non-factor defensively is a bit absurd. What does a non-factor defensively actually mean anyways? He defended his assignments, prevented players he was defending from scoring for the most part... end of story as far as I'm concerned.
Jeff Green brings nothing to this team most of the time he is on the court. He is an infuriating basketball player. And, +/- is a dumb stat in general, and really dumb for just one game -- just my opinion.
I don't care much for +/- either, but considering that he was singled out along with Pierce and KG as hurting our offense, when he only took 4 shots, I thought it an interesting observation... but nothing in my post was based off that stat... just something thrown at the end as a random factoid. Food for thought.