CelticsStrong

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Clench123 on January 18, 2013, 11:25:41 PM

Title: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Clench123 on January 18, 2013, 11:25:41 PM
Blame the ref for the call all you want (and believe me they are definately to blame) but Paul Pierce made a lot of terrible decisions down the stretch that kept putting us in reverse.  I overlooked his flaws last game saying it's just wasn't his night but he's had those nights back to back now, it's ridiculous.

I want to use this opportunity to give a shout out to my boy Rondo.  The most criticized player around here but like he always does, he showed up big tonight.  He played an amazing game.  I wish everybody else on the team would've caught on early in the game
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on January 18, 2013, 11:31:53 PM
I dont know man. That drive to the hoop, the assist to KG who was wide open because he attracted the defense and the clutch free throws that gave us thr lead before the laying down shot by Ciao Marco? That was all Paul. He did what he could and put us in position to actually win.

It was the refs. Plain and simple. Paul got hounded and wasnt called a foul. This game was stolen from us.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Clench123 on January 18, 2013, 11:35:35 PM
What about all those ill advised shots he was jacking up and those isos he was playing that didn't go anywhere?  He actually made one play I can't remember how it goes in those last couple minutes that infuriates me a lot.  I love the captain but the guy's been hurting us for few games now. 

How bad does the guy have to play to deserve some criticisms around here?  He was terrible tonght
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 19, 2013, 09:05:03 AM
Pierce and KG both were horrible forcing shots. Zero ball movement from both.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: csfansince60s on January 19, 2013, 09:53:03 AM
Pierce and KG both were horrible forcing shots. Zero ball movement from both.

Agree......also,how many free-throws did KG miss in 4th?
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: edwardjkasche on January 19, 2013, 10:19:20 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to say Rondo played an "amazing game."

His defense was atrocious, as has been lately.  Hinrich drove past him at will.  Jimmy Butler's two scores in overtime were on Rondo - one where he left his man and missed stealing the pass, the other where he lazily fronted him and gave up a layup.

Rondo's offense was aggressive, which was great!  Too bad he's too inconsistent to at least bring this aggressiveness every game.  I'm not asking for 30 points, but I'm asking for the effort.

But, his defense was once again lazy, which was awful.

And, I'm sick of excuses for his poor defense.  He's a perfectly fit and athletic PG who should be fully capable of guarding the opposing PG.  Other PGs are able to handle this while still putting up points and running the offense.  Just look at Chris Paul and Deron Williams and Mike Conley and Westbrook and Rose (when healthy).  They don't need to be bailed out on defense night-in, night-out by defensive specialists like Bradley.

I'm glad we have Bradley to do the dirty work, but Rondo needs to up his game on defense.

p.s. Nothing annoys me more than when Rondo is shifted onto the SG when Bradley takes the PG, and Rondo's defense is still lazy, giving up uncontested threes and drives to the basket on weak-side swings.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Celtics18 on January 19, 2013, 10:50:37 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to say Rondo played an "amazing game."

His defense was atrocious, as has been lately.  Hinrich drove past him at will.  Jimmy Butler's two scores in overtime were on Rondo - one where he left his man and missed stealing the pass, the other where he lazily fronted him and gave up a layup.

Rondo's offense was aggressive, which was great!  Too bad he's too inconsistent to at least bring this aggressiveness every game.  I'm not asking for 30 points, but I'm asking for the effort.

But, his defense was once again lazy, which was awful.

And, I'm sick of excuses for his poor defense.  He's a perfectly fit and athletic PG who should be fully capable of guarding the opposing PG.  Other PGs are able to handle this while still putting up points and running the offense.  Just look at Chris Paul and Deron Williams and Mike Conley and Westbrook and Rose (when healthy).  They don't need to be bailed out on defense night-in, night-out by defensive specialists like Bradley.

I'm glad we have Bradley to do the dirty work, but Rondo needs to up his game on defense.

p.s. Nothing annoys me more than when Rondo is shifted onto the SG when Bradley takes the PG, and Rondo's defense is still lazy, giving up uncontested threes and drives to the basket on weak-side swings.

Your point about Paul, Williams, Conley, Westbrook, and Rose's defense compared to Rondo is blatantly untrue.  Those guys all consistently get beaten off the dribble by opposing point guards.  I would go so far as to say that each of them is a worse defender than Rondo. 

Heck, I saw Russell Westbrook get beat off the dribble by Mike James last night against Dallas (and Mike James has got to be my age). 

These posts about Rondo's defense continually pop up.  It seems to me that the thinking behind them is that if Rondo doesn't play a perfect defensive game, then he's being lazy.  Personally, I rarely see anyone who can play 35+ minutes a game, be the team's main offensive player, and also play a perfect defensive ball game.  That just doesn't happen. 

Having said all that, I loved Rondo's defense last night.  He looked really engaged on both ends of the floor, and he looked like he was really busting his butt out there to try to carry his team against the Bulls. 

I feel confident that Rondo will once again deservingly make one of the NBA All-Defensive teams as voted on by opposing NBA coaches.  They are probably all just Celtics homers, though. 

Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 19, 2013, 11:20:08 AM
Pierce has had absolutely zero in his legs lately
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: BballTim on January 19, 2013, 11:25:32 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to say Rondo played an "amazing game."

His defense was atrocious, as has been lately.  Hinrich drove past him at will.  Jimmy Butler's two scores in overtime were on Rondo - one where he left his man and missed stealing the pass, the other where he lazily fronted him and gave up a layup.

Rondo's offense was aggressive, which was great!  Too bad he's too inconsistent to at least bring this aggressiveness every game.  I'm not asking for 30 points, but I'm asking for the effort.

But, his defense was once again lazy, which was awful.

  I would disagree with all of this. Rondo did a good job of limiting Hinrich and Hamilton when he was covering them. Hinrich certainly didn't drive past him at will, and it's pretty nonsensical to say it's "lazy" to front a player that's got 6 inches and 35 pounds on you when you cover them in the low post.

And, I'm sick of excuses for his poor defense.  He's a perfectly fit and athletic PG who should be fully capable of guarding the opposing PG.  Other PGs are able to handle this while still putting up points and running the offense.  Just look at Chris Paul and Deron Williams and Mike Conley and Westbrook and Rose (when healthy).  They don't need to be bailed out on defense night-in, night-out by defensive specialists like Bradley.

  Bradley's a defensive specialist who's specialty is harassing opposing point guards. He makes much less of a defensive impact when he covers shooting guards. Which of the teams you listed have players like that in the lineup? From your list above, with the possible exception of Paul, "able to handle it" means playing worse defense than Rondo.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Juneauz on January 19, 2013, 11:54:47 AM
Rondo played an OUTSTANDING game. Can't believe there are still trolls out there trying to make up excuses or criticizing his defense (which, by the way, was great).

Totally agree with your point against Pierce. Problem is he's been costing us quite a few games this year. He's now become a poor man's Kobe Bryant, racking up tons of shots without making any, a black hole for our offense production. Can't drive to the basket or lift anymore. It's sad to witness. Pierce's last three games: 16-49 from the floor, including 3-18 from 3 point range.

It amuses me how some people take the time to blame Rondo, our best player by far, who plays efficient, amazing basketball, and don't say a single word on the way PP is being atrocious lately. But as I said, trolls always existed on the net and always will unfortunately.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 19, 2013, 12:40:25 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to say Rondo played an "amazing game."

His defense was atrocious, as has been lately.  Hinrich drove past him at will.  Jimmy Butler's two scores in overtime were on Rondo - one where he left his man and missed stealing the pass, the other where he lazily fronted him and gave up a layup.

Rondo's offense was aggressive, which was great!  Too bad he's too inconsistent to at least bring this aggressiveness every game.  I'm not asking for 30 points, but I'm asking for the effort.

But, his defense was once again lazy, which was awful.

  I would disagree with all of this. Rondo did a good job of limiting Hinrich and Hamilton when he was covering them. Hinrich certainly didn't drive past him at will, and it's pretty nonsensical to say it's "lazy" to front a player that's got 6 inches and 35 pounds on you when you cover them in the low post.

And, I'm sick of excuses for his poor defense.  He's a perfectly fit and athletic PG who should be fully capable of guarding the opposing PG.  Other PGs are able to handle this while still putting up points and running the offense.  Just look at Chris Paul and Deron Williams and Mike Conley and Westbrook and Rose (when healthy).  They don't need to be bailed out on defense night-in, night-out by defensive specialists like Bradley.

  Bradley's a defensive specialist who's specialty is harassing opposing point guards. He makes much less of a defensive impact when he covers shooting guards. Which of the teams you listed have players like that in the lineup? From your list above, with the possible exception of Paul, "able to handle it" means playing worse defense than Rondo.

I personally thought Rondo did an overall good job defensively, but he did a poor job stopping penetration from Kirk, there's no need to deny that. I thought he defended Hamilton hard, but Hamilton has like 5-6 inches over him, so he loses a lot of effectiveness.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Scribbles on January 19, 2013, 02:33:28 PM
I know this topic is about Pierce but it sorta got switched to Rondo...so I'll make my point.  Anyone notice how Rondo has had his higher scoring games against Chicago?  Do you think that's by design from Thibs?  I'm thinking Thibs wants Rondo scoring the ball because it gives the Bulls a better chance to win if he's being a scorer. 

I wasn't able to watch the game last night so I don't know what was going on, pace, etc but it's just ironic he goes for big scoring numbers and we've lost 2 out of 3 to Chicago.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: j804 on January 19, 2013, 03:17:38 PM
I know this topic is about Pierce but it sorta got switched to Rondo...so I'll make my point.  Anyone notice how Rondo has had his higher scoring games against Chicago?  Do you think that's by design from Thibs?  I'm thinking Thibs wants Rondo scoring the ball because it gives the Bulls a better chance to win if he's being a scorer. 

I wasn't able to watch the game last night so I don't know what was going on, pace, etc but it's just ironic he goes for big scoring numbers and we've lost 2 out of 3 to Chicago.
or maybe because Derrick Rose's absence?!
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Celtics18 on January 19, 2013, 03:28:55 PM
I know this topic is about Pierce but it sorta got switched to Rondo...so I'll make my point.  Anyone notice how Rondo has had his higher scoring games against Chicago?  Do you think that's by design from Thibs?  I'm thinking Thibs wants Rondo scoring the ball because it gives the Bulls a better chance to win if he's being a scorer. 

I wasn't able to watch the game last night so I don't know what was going on, pace, etc but it's just ironic he goes for big scoring numbers and we've lost 2 out of 3 to Chicago.

I think you might be on to something.  I think it might be part of Thibs' strategy to prioritize not giving Rondo passing lanes, and allowing him to be more of a scorer. 
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: lightspeed5 on January 19, 2013, 03:46:23 PM
thibs knows all of our stars weaknesses, every little weakness.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Kane3387 on January 19, 2013, 03:59:21 PM
He definitely deserves a lot of credit for the loss but considering how many games he's won for us in the past I don't think we can be too upset at him.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Clench123 on January 19, 2013, 04:50:26 PM
I know this topic is about Pierce but it sorta got switched to Rondo...so I'll make my point.  Anyone notice how Rondo has had his higher scoring games against Chicago?  Do you think that's by design from Thibs?  I'm thinking Thibs wants Rondo scoring the ball because it gives the Bulls a better chance to win if he's being a scorer. 

I wasn't able to watch the game last night so I don't know what was going on, pace, etc but it's just ironic he goes for big scoring numbers and we've lost 2 out of 3 to Chicago.
or maybe because Derrick Rose's absence?!

If he could drop 44 points on a defensive juggernut like Lebron and the Heat, I don't think it matters who's on the court.  Rondo would still be Rondo.  He's done it time and time again with great players across from him.  And from the way he was playing last night (he was totally in the zone), I doubt Rose would've been able to stop him.  He singlehandedly almost will us to victory.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: BballTim on January 19, 2013, 05:18:08 PM
I know this topic is about Pierce but it sorta got switched to Rondo...so I'll make my point.  Anyone notice how Rondo has had his higher scoring games against Chicago?  Do you think that's by design from Thibs?  I'm thinking Thibs wants Rondo scoring the ball because it gives the Bulls a better chance to win if he's being a scorer. 

I wasn't able to watch the game last night so I don't know what was going on, pace, etc but it's just ironic he goes for big scoring numbers and we've lost 2 out of 3 to Chicago.

  The bulls were lucky to even get to overtime. If that was Thib's strategy it wasn't overly successful.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Smutzy#9 on January 19, 2013, 05:24:53 PM
Blame the ref for the call all you want (and believe me they are definately to blame) but Paul Pierce made a lot of terrible decisions down the stretch that kept putting us in reverse.  I overlooked his flaws last game saying it's just wasn't his night but he's had those nights back to back now, it's ridiculous.

I want to use this opportunity to give a shout out to my boy Rondo.  The most criticized player around here but like he always does, he showed up big tonight.  He played an amazing game.  I wish everybody else on the team would've caught on early in the game

How many times has he won us a game???? Say what you will but when teams win/lose it very rarely should fall onto a single player. It was a blatant foul by the bulls to put pierce at the line and you could see that as soon as noah and butler realised there wasnt going to be a whistle for mugging him they went for the tie up.

With pierces track record he was arguably one of the safest guys to give the ball to.

I hate how people immediately forget how many great things this guy has done for the celtics over the years. He could have easily asked to be traded in those years when we were struggling but he stuck around and Danny rewarded him by bringing in KG and Ray and we got a banner for it.

Peirce has given his heart and soul to the Celtics. Just saying think about what he has done before you start calling him out and blaming him for loses
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Clench123 on January 19, 2013, 05:31:41 PM
Blame the ref for the call all you want (and believe me they are definately to blame) but Paul Pierce made a lot of terrible decisions down the stretch that kept putting us in reverse.  I overlooked his flaws last game saying it's just wasn't his night but he's had those nights back to back now, it's ridiculous.

I want to use this opportunity to give a shout out to my boy Rondo.  The most criticized player around here but like he always does, he showed up big tonight.  He played an amazing game.  I wish everybody else on the team would've caught on early in the game

How many times has he won us a game???? Say what you will but when teams win/lose it very rarely should fall onto a single player. It was a blatant foul by the bulls to put pierce at the line and you could see that as soon as noah and butler realised there wasnt going to be a whistle for mugging him they went for the tie up.

With pierces track record he was arguably one of the safest guys to give the ball to.

I hate how people immediately forget how many great things this guy has done for the celtics over the years. He could have easily asked to be traded in those years when we were struggling but he stuck around and Danny rewarded him by bringing in KG and Ray and we got a banner for it.

Peirce has given his heart and soul to the Celtics. Just saying think about what he has done before you start calling him out and blaming him for loses

Calm down, dude.  If you read the thread, you will see that it wasn't that last call I was calling him out for.  And I'm aware of how great he's been for this organization and even with how badly he's been playing, I wouldn't trade the captain.  But to overlook how terribly he'been playing would be laughable because it's right in front of our eyes.  The guy has been downright terrible and has cost us more than enough games this season.  For someone that often get the right of passage here, he deserve be called out and critisized especially when his terrible decisions keeps costing us games
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Smutzy#9 on January 19, 2013, 07:41:45 PM
I dont understand why you are calling him out for the lose though. You could call out garnett as well, you could call you practically everyone on the team bar maybe Rondo. In a 1 point loss (that shouldnt have been a loss) you cant blame one person. If KG hit 2 of his missed free throws we win....... if barbosa didnt miss 2 easy lay ups we win.... Its a team sport, You win as a team and loose as a team.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: scaryjerry on January 19, 2013, 07:44:34 PM
Never kg! But I'm stunned this isn't a rondo scored over 30 and that's why we lost thread
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: crimson_stallion on January 19, 2013, 08:02:08 PM
Calm down, dude.  If you read the thread, you will see that it wasn't that last call I was calling him out for.  And I'm aware of how great he's been for this organization and even with how badly he's been playing, I wouldn't trade the captain.  But to overlook how terribly he'been playing would be laughable because it's right in front of our eyes.  The guy has been downright terrible and has cost us more than enough games this season.  For someone that often get the right of passage here, he deserve be called out and critisized especially when his terrible decisions keeps costing us games

The problem is that people like you who are taking the anti-Pierce stance keep focussing on all the bad plays, but keep ignoring all the big ones.

How many games this year have we WON becuase of Pierce?  After Pierce (19 PPG) and KG (15 PPG) our next leading scorer is Rondo at about 12 PPG.  If Pierce were to, for example, go down due to injury (knock on wood) those other two guys would be depended on to handle our scoring load. How many games do you think we would win?  I assure you we'd be a lottery calibre team during that stretch.

Pierce hasn't been as consistent DURING GAMES as he was in past seasons, but he's been just as consistent over the season.  What I mean by that is that rather than scoring evently throghout a game, he will struggle through one half but then but then explode in the other half. 

At the end of the day, he's still putting up good scoring numbers on a day by day basis though.  When we have needed a big basket in a close game, he's still be the man who's come up good for us more than anybody.  I've lost count of the number of games this year where I've been criticisimg him the whole day, only to watch him explode with some huge clutch baskets and essentially win us the game. 

It's been very rare this season that I've seen a game (any game) where Pierce hasn't come up big for us in one stretch or another.  He's the only pure scorer on our team and we rely on him to carry our offense, which he does.  At his age you just can't expect him to plsy at vintage Paul Pierce level for 48 minutes every night.  He still plays at a Vintage PP level, but it's probably only going to be for 24 minutes a night. 
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: badshar on January 19, 2013, 09:11:19 PM
With this thread's logic, I could blame 10 other guys for not hitting shots or playing stupid. Just because Pierce didn't make his shot doesn't mean he cost us the game. Did he take the game winning shot? NO. Did he let his man make the game-winner in overtime? NO. Then how can you just blame him for everything.

Seriously, y'all need to use some logic now.
One game Pierce does good. Many of you fans: "Oh my god, Pierce is god. He is the truth. He is the best. He is so underrated. He deserves more credit."

If another game Pierce doesn't do good. Many of you SAME fans: "Pierce sucks. He is absolutely horrible. Old, useless. Get him out of here. He cost us the game, he is garbage."

Make up your mind, and live by it. Stop switching sides like BANDWAGONS.

The whole Celtics fanbase takes a hit on its reputation because of you guys.
Title: Re: Paul Pierce cost us the game
Post by: Smutzy#9 on January 19, 2013, 09:38:54 PM
With this thread's logic, I could blame 10 other guys for not hitting shots or playing stupid. Just because Pierce didn't make his shot doesn't mean he cost us the game. Did he take the game winning shot? NO. Did he let his man make the game-winner in overtime? NO. Then how can you just blame him for everything.

Seriously, y'all need to use some logic now.
One game Pierce does good. Many of you fans: "Oh my god, Pierce is god. He is the truth. He is the best. He is so underrated. He deserves more credit."

If another game Pierce doesn't do good. Many of you SAME fans: "Pierce sucks. He is absolutely horrible. Old, useless. Get him out of here. He cost us the game, he is garbage."

Make up your mind, and live by it. Stop switching sides like BANDWAGONS.

The whole Celtics fanbase takes a hit on its reputation because of you guys.

welcome to Celtics Blog Forums. where a blow it up thread comes up after each loss and if Rondo has a sub par game people talk about packaging him to get a big.

But i actually agree with 100% with what you say, people flip flop all the time on this forum. Basketball is a long season and we all know as long as you make the 8 the real season doesnt start till the playoffs