CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: AshyLarry on January 18, 2013, 07:39:03 PM
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I was sitting here, on this futon, wondering who we could get back in a trade for Jeff Green, when I thought "Hmm, who's more valuable to this team as of right now, Jeff Green or our rookie pf Sullinger?" Lets say one of them goes down with injury; which injury would hurt the team worse?
What do you's guys think?
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"Value" is an interesting thing.
I'd say Sully has more trade value, although due to salary rules in trades, he'd have to be packaged with somebody else. I get the sense that Green probably has negative value.
In terms of importance to the team, there's an argument that Green is more important right now, just because we don't have another competent backup SF. If Sully went down, you at least have Wilcox and Green who can theoretically play PF (although there would be a loss in rebounding.)
That said, I think Sully is more "untradeable" than Green, just because he has the potential to turn into a better player. A legitimate starter power forward who rebounds and scores in the post would have more value than a mediocre backup (or even starting) small forward.
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Green.
Simply put, he's our only true back up SF, and we have only one other player capable of playing SF minutes (Courtney Lee), unless we want to put a 6'2 guy at the 3.
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I love me some Sully
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Agree right now green is more important. people rag on him and want to trade him on this forum but if he goes down we pretty much have lee to play the 3 and thats it. We get enough small ball smack on here already
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Sullinger brings more to the table and probably has more value to other teams. The only way you can say Green is more valuable is because of lack of another player who plays the 3, as others have said.
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At this point, I'll pick Sullinger. Not giving up on Green though.
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No brainer. Sully.
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No brainer. Sully.
this....valuable means has value
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Roy said it all IMHO.
The question has to be contextualized to make sense. Sully likely has more trade value. Sully also has more long term value for the Cs, but Green has more immediate value for the Cs (he's the only backup for Pierce).
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Sully
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Good question, I will go with Sully Green is too passive for me he will never change. He is a flash player that you keep waiting to be consistent.
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Sullinger is getting better and better, and also looking more and more trim. If he keeps building muscle, he will be a way legit PF in the NBA.
I was dead wrong about him.....I thought his weight/height would make him a Bass-ceiling type of player.....he is going to be a freaking beast in the paint though if he polishes his game, and keeps training hard.
I would only consider trading Sullinger for a Demarcus Cousins caliber big-man......so in other words, he's staying here, and I'm cool with that.
Green is proving to be the more expendable piece, especially at the contracted rate he's at.
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Is there even a question who is more valuable? They could get a scrub guy who gets bought out of a contract and he will give you more backing up Pierce than Green gives you most nights. Sully has the potential to be a regular double double guy. He is already far and away the best rebounder on the team. Jeff Green is pretty much mediocre at most parts of the game.
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No brainer. Sully.
Right. Easy answer. One word. Sounds cool in Boston. Sully.
What would it cost us to find a serviceable 3 in the event Pierce went down? An argument can be made (by someone far more sober and invested than I, right now) that Pietrus would've been a better fit for us... and I honestly believe that.
The only thing worse than Green's contract is the fact that many still believe Ainge is a great GM.
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No brainer. Sully.
Right. Easy answer. One word. Sounds cool in Boston. Sully.
What would it cost us to find a serviceable 3 in the event Pierce went down? An argument can be made (by someone far more sober and invested than I, right now) that Pietrus would've been a better fit for us... and I honestly believe that.
The only thing worse than Green's contract is the fact that many still believe Ainge is a great GM.
Don't get me wrong here.
Jeff Green is much more valuable to this team than Pietrus was at any point last season.
But I'd much rather have Pietrus backing up Pierce and have Sullinger at PF than have Jeff Green and have Wilcox as the main backup PF.
And just on a basic level, I think Sullinger is a more valuable player, right now and in the future, independent of roster concerns.
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I was sitting here, on this futon, wondering who we could get back in a trade for Jeff Green, when I thought "Hmm, who's more valuable to this team as of right now, Jeff Green or our rookie pf Sullinger?" Lets say one of them goes down with injury; which injury would hurt the team worse?
What do you's guys think?
Sullinger is by far more "valuable" because he is on a rookie contract and could be had for short money for the next few years of his career. Green might be the better overall player - certainly debatable - but Sully is more valuable, especially because he is a phenom rebounding the ball.
But in the NBA it is hard to say who will get you more back in a trade, because you have to match salaries. Sullinger straight up in a trade would only get you back another rookie or a short-priced vet, which is to say that he gets you back nothing. Green, on the other hand, makes enough money where a straight up trade would get back a high-priced vet.
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is this a joke?
i would trade jeff green for a bag of chips at this point, and still think i won in the trade.
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No brainer. Sully.
Right. Easy answer. One word. Sounds cool in Boston. Sully.
What would it cost us to find a serviceable 3 in the event Pierce went down? An argument can be made (by someone far more sober and invested than I, right now) that Pietrus would've been a better fit for us... and I honestly believe that.
The only thing worse than Green's contract is the fact that many still believe Ainge is a great GM.
i still think danny is, because i think he signed jeff with the intent to trade him asap, however if feb 21 comes and jeff green doesnt get traded, i will have no choice but to say he messed up big time.
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tie
sully is improving in leaps and bounds and looks to be a solid contributor for his overall ROOKIE year and he's young
green has done just fine he needs to be given the ball more, guy is in the game with no plays run for him and is averaging just under 10 pts, plays good defense
both guys plays within the team game
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Green since we.don't have any other adequate back-up. We have Bass and Wilcox who can fill in for Sully no problem.
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Green since we.don't have any other adequate back-up. We have Bass and Wilcox who can fill in for Sully no problem.
Bass and Wilcox won't get the rebounds in two games that Sully alone gets in one. Green is value-less at this point and I doubt Danny will be able to trade him for much if anything. So, he will be on the team and continue to play well about 30 percent of the time. Can't wait.
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about equal.... they are two completely different mindsets, and I actually think they play well together.
Sully maybe be more valuable by the end of next year....I 'm confident he will. I expect him to work on his offensive game and open it up.
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is this a joke?
This.
Sully on-court the C's score 107 and allow 102. Sully off court the C's score 102 and allow 107. His net +/- is +10.
Green on-court the C's score 103 and allow 106. Green off court the C's score 105 and allow 104. Net +/- of -4.
Clearly Sully is more valuable to the C's.
Trade value is even more unequal. Sully is a good player with a chance to improve on a rookie contract. Green is a mediocre player with no chance to improve on a horrible contract.
And if the question is whether it's easier to find a good backup wing or a good backup big, we have our answer too.
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A truism, perhaps, but I think the value is with Sully because he is on his rookie scale.
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Sully, not even close.
Kid is a solid rookie who works his butt off and is already a very good rebounder.
He has an innate sense of how to use his body to create space, and is not terribly intimidated by the big names in the league.
Scoring is off-and-on right now, but it's his first year, and that's expected.
He's surrounded by some of the best mentors in the game, and is only going to improve with his energetic effort.
Green improving or being consistent? Still waiting for that, and it seems like he's had enough time to establish himself in that respect.
He's so talented and athletic, but he has gotten used to hearing that and "resting" on those laurels, and only seems to give about 75%, (at the most).
Sully? 110%, and that alone, (especially in a rookie), is worth more, IMHO.
I love this kid ... he's a Red Auerbach kind of player, and I can't wait to see how he develops as a Celtic.
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Sullinger and it's literally not even close.
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I love these. Sully vs. Bradley. Sully vs. Green. Bass vs. Lee.
How about this...
Do we like a future lineup of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully?
Do we like the idea of a future bench core that includes Lee and Bass?
Are we excited to see how these talents complement and support the KG/Pierce/Rondo core this year and next?
Heck, Danny should be GM of the year.
Are we surprised that all of these pieces that just came together this year didn't magically mesh together in an instant?
Something tells me we have a few more 5+ game win streaks in us coming up, and everyone will look good at some point.
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I love these. Sully vs. Bradley. Sully vs. Green. Bass vs. Lee.
How about this...
Do we like a future lineup of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully?
Do we like the idea of a future bench core that includes Lee and Bass?
Are we excited to see how these talents complement and support the KG/Pierce/Rondo core this year and next?
Heck, Danny should be GM of the year.
Are we surprised that all of these pieces that just came together this year didn't magically mesh together in an instant?
Something tells me we have a few more 5+ game win streaks in us coming up, and everyone will look good at some point.
If Green is on this team in the future and even worse in the starting lineup, you have the perfect recipe for mediocrity. The four core players you list feature one near superstar, one great defensive guard, a potential regular double double guy and a guy who has underachieved his entire career, never been consistent, and half the time plays like he is afraid of his shadow. That core four is not something I look forward to.
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Valuable as an asset: Sullinger. Potential-wise, dollars-wise, across the board.
To our team right now: That's really tough. Green would probably have the edge here if he was consistent. We don't have a backup 3 who is viable, we desperately need his athleticism on the wing, and he's the only other 'bron-defender' that makes any sense on our roster, and even Pierce is pretty bad at it anyways. We have 3 viable PFs outside of Sullinger, but we only have 1 viable 3 outside of Pierce, and that's Green.
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I love these. Sully vs. Bradley. Sully vs. Green. Bass vs. Lee.
How about this...
Do we like a future lineup of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully?
Do we like the idea of a future bench core that includes Lee and Bass?
Are we excited to see how these talents complement and support the KG/Pierce/Rondo core this year and next?
Heck, Danny should be GM of the year.
Are we surprised that all of these pieces that just came together this year didn't magically mesh together in an instant?
Something tells me we have a few more 5+ game win streaks in us coming up, and everyone will look good at some point.
If Green is on this team in the future and even worse in the starting lineup, you have the perfect recipe for mediocrity. The four core players you list feature one near superstar, one great defensive guard, a potential regular double double guy and a guy who has underachieved his entire career, never been consistent, and half the time plays like he is afraid of his shadow. That core four is not something I look forward to.
Hang on, Vin - Let me adjust my green goggles.
That's better.
I see Rondo leading the league in assists (nearly),
Bradley being an all-NBA 1st team defender,
Sully leading the league in rebounds (nearly),
and Green, with his rounded game, as a super-talent complement to any star player we can nail.
I could see those guys combining for an average of at least 50pts, 20rbs, and 15 asst with 2-4 stl, plus the bench and Center.
With a star Center, we have a heck of a lineup, and quite nearly our current starting unit (subbing Green for Pierce, and KG for Star Center to be Named Later).
So if you like the current team and think Green could provide an aged-Pierce level of production (about 5 more points and 2 more assists/36 than he puts up now), then both Green and Sully join Bradley and Rondo as key future pieces.
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I love these. Sully vs. Bradley. Sully vs. Green. Bass vs. Lee.
How about this...
Do we like a future lineup of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully?
Do we like the idea of a future bench core that includes Lee and Bass?
Are we excited to see how these talents complement and support the KG/Pierce/Rondo core this year and next?
Heck, Danny should be GM of the year.
Are we surprised that all of these pieces that just came together this year didn't magically mesh together in an instant?
Something tells me we have a few more 5+ game win streaks in us coming up, and everyone will look good at some point.
If Green is on this team in the future and even worse in the starting lineup, you have the perfect recipe for mediocrity. The four core players you list feature one near superstar, one great defensive guard, a potential regular double double guy and a guy who has underachieved his entire career, never been consistent, and half the time plays like he is afraid of his shadow. That core four is not something I look forward to.
Hang on, Vin - Let me adjust my green goggles.
That's better.
I see Rondo leading the league in assists (nearly),
Bradley being an all-NBA 1st team defender,
Sully leading the league in rebounds (nearly),
and Green, with his rounded game, as a super-talent complement to any star player we can nail.
I could see those guys combining for an average of at least 50pts, 20rbs, and 15 asst with 2-4 stl, plus the bench and Center.
With a star Center, we have a heck of a lineup, and quite nearly our current starting unit (subbing Green for Pierce, and KG for Star Center to be Named Later).
So if you like the current team and think Green could provide an aged-Pierce level of production (about 5 more points and 2 more assists/36 than he puts up now), then both Green and Sully join Bradley and Rondo as key future pieces.
"With a star Center"
Devil is in the details
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I love these. Sully vs. Bradley. Sully vs. Green. Bass vs. Lee.
How about this...
Do we like a future lineup of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Sully?
Do we like the idea of a future bench core that includes Lee and Bass?
Are we excited to see how these talents complement and support the KG/Pierce/Rondo core this year and next?
Heck, Danny should be GM of the year.
Are we surprised that all of these pieces that just came together this year didn't magically mesh together in an instant?
Something tells me we have a few more 5+ game win streaks in us coming up, and everyone will look good at some point.
If Green is on this team in the future and even worse in the starting lineup, you have the perfect recipe for mediocrity. The four core players you list feature one near superstar, one great defensive guard, a potential regular double double guy and a guy who has underachieved his entire career, never been consistent, and half the time plays like he is afraid of his shadow. That core four is not something I look forward to.
Hang on, Vin - Let me adjust my green goggles.
That's better.
I see Rondo leading the league in assists (nearly),
Bradley being an all-NBA 1st team defender,
Sully leading the league in rebounds (nearly),
and Green, with his rounded game, as a super-talent complement to any star player we can nail.
I could see those guys combining for an average of at least 50pts, 20rbs, and 15 asst with 2-4 stl, plus the bench and Center.
With a star Center, we have a heck of a lineup, and quite nearly our current starting unit (subbing Green for Pierce, and KG for Star Center to be Named Later).
So if you like the current team and think Green could provide an aged-Pierce level of production (about 5 more points and 2 more assists/36 than he puts up now), then both Green and Sully join Bradley and Rondo as key future pieces.
"With a star Center"
Devil is in the details
(http://dy.snimg.com/story-image/5/68/1652754/83050-650-366.jpg)
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Sullinger and its not that close
as a rookie he's already had several games better than anything jeff green has given us ever..doing things we actually need...lol@ bass and wilcox "easily" replacing what sullinger does in case of injury...uh what?
If the invisible man gets injured we dont need anyone to replace him...hell try Joseph im sure it wouldnt be much worse
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PILE ON! Sorry guys, I just got up.
Sullinger's contract has value. He is an asset.
Green's contract has negative value. He is a liability.
At present, there is literally no number of Jeff Greens you could add up to be worth one Jared Sullinger.
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Sully has proven me wrong so far and im glad, lol..hope he can keep it up
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For our team? I'd have to say Green only because if he goes down Pierce has to play huge minutes and we need to make a trade to fill in the void. Sully goes down and we still have Bass and wilcox at the PF positions.
Trade value wise it has to be Sully. Younger, less contract, more potential at this point.
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Right now its Sullinger, and there is no question about it.
He's outperforming Green in almost every possible area - defense, rebounding, hustle, energy. Green is scoring at a slightly higher per-minute rate, but not by much.
I like Green, bit he doesn't give us what Sully does on a nightly basis. On some days he can explode and carry the offense, but he doesnr do it often enough.
As for the talk of Green replacing what Pierce gives us - never going to happen. Paul Pierce is going to go down in history as one of the greatest scorers to ever play the game, and one of the 10 greatest Celtics of all time. Green will never reach with accolade and at best he may simple he a very good starter. To replace what Pierce has given us we'd need a Carmello-esque scorer, and Jeff Green sure isn't that.