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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Eddie20 on January 16, 2013, 03:07:36 PM

Title: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Eddie20 on January 16, 2013, 03:07:36 PM
Not much here, but I figure I'd pass it along.


Quote
@bostonsportz (boston)

Are you hearing any moves the Celtics might make?
Chad Ford  (1:21 PM)

Danny Ainge did his annual radio interview where he appears flabbergasted at all the trade talk and says it's unlikely they'll do a deal. Of course, we know from past years, that Ainge isn't exactly forthcoming in such interviews. Multiple teams tell me they've talked to the Celtics and they believe everything is on the table -- as it should be. If Ainge can make the team stronger for a run at the Finals he will. If he can't, but he can just start the rebuilding process in a big way -- why wouldn't he. The team he has now probably isn't a serious Finals contender. I think it's likely it moves one way or the other. So when I wrote a few weeks back that he could or could not move Rondo, I wasn't trying to have it both ways. I meant that both options are on the table and he's looking for the best deal for his team. If there's a great Rondo trade for the Celtics, he'll do it. If there isn't, he's not in firesale mode, he's not moving players like Rondo or Paul Pierce for the sake of shaking up the team.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Fafnir on January 16, 2013, 03:12:12 PM
Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Kane3387 on January 16, 2013, 03:23:03 PM
Is there a link? Just wondering if there was more questions he answered like this, etc.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Chris on January 16, 2013, 03:24:22 PM
And the sky is blue!

Seriously though, this is at least slightly interesting, just because it confirms the smoke we have already been seeing, coming from a very plugged in source.  Chad Ford has his weaknesses, and has a major Euro fetish, but he also is one of the more connected "insiders" not named Wojo.  So, if he is hearing that the C's are making everyone available, I believe it.

Of course, it doesn't mean they have reasonable estimations of their players values...but it definitely sounds like they are not sitting pat. 
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: CFAN38 on January 16, 2013, 03:29:49 PM
This is the case every year,

I think Danny does a good job gauging the interest around the league for all the Celtics assets. This is one of the reason I believe their are always so many celtics rumors. I honestly can picture Danny telling any GM he talk to to make him an offer on anyone, he can always just say no.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Snakehead on January 16, 2013, 03:31:46 PM
Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.

Pretty much.

Also Chad Ford typically down on the Celtics, as he usually seems to be.  Giving us no chance to contend.  He is letting his opinion on that color the possibilities of what he things Ainge will do.

Again, no doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  But that doesn't mean he really has considered that much.  I believe Ainge knows this year could be very similar to last year and our team could very well be better equipped to beat Miami.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Cman on January 16, 2013, 03:32:44 PM
Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.

Yep.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: jarufu on January 16, 2013, 03:39:28 PM
So Danny makes 29 phone calls every January and says "Hey GM "X" if you're dealing over the next month give me a call and maybe I can facilitate something"
GM "X" says "Who's available on your roster?"
Danny "All of 'em, just call me"

Chad needs something to report mid-January..
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 16, 2013, 03:41:01 PM
Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.

Pretty much.

Also Chad Ford typically down on the Celtics, as he usually seems to be.  Giving us no chance to contend.  He is letting his opinion on that color the possibilities of what he things Ainge will do.

Again, no doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  But that doesn't mean he really has considered that much.  I believe Ainge knows this year could be very similar to last year and our team could very well be better equipped to beat Miami.

Chad Ford is pretty consistently misrepresented on this board. The fact is, he's one of the few 'insiders' who actually talks to real sources.

More importantly, it's very hard to blame him or any other objective observer for looking at the Cs and seeing a less-than-championship caliber team. If you were a Bobcats fan or a Blazers fan or a Kings fan, would you bet on Miami or Boston? OKC or Boston? LAC or Boston?

I think Ford's point is clear, and has some value. That is, more than simple tire kicking. Ainge gets that the time is now to either go one way or the other. So he's listening to all of it. If he can't improve their 'win now' chances -- something he likely feels they need to do to have a serious shot -- then he's going to consider, at the very least, more wholesale adjustments.

What Ford doesn't say, but I believe strongly is the case for the Cs and therefore a major factor, is that Pierce is not going to kept on his current contract this summer under almost any circumstances (other than a banner). He'll be offered a much lower 2 year deal -- say, $7-9mil a year. And who knows if he'll take it.

That likely increases the chances of a more lateral team-changing trade a little bit...

Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Snakehead on January 16, 2013, 03:50:37 PM
Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.

Pretty much.

Also Chad Ford typically down on the Celtics, as he usually seems to be.  Giving us no chance to contend.  He is letting his opinion on that color the possibilities of what he things Ainge will do.

Again, no doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  But that doesn't mean he really has considered that much.  I believe Ainge knows this year could be very similar to last year and our team could very well be better equipped to beat Miami.

Chad Ford is pretty consistently misrepresented on this board. The fact is, he's one of the few 'insiders' who actually talks to real sources.

More importantly, it's very hard to blame him or any other objective observer for looking at the Cs and seeing a less-than-championship caliber team. If you were a Bobcats fan or a Blazers fan or a Kings fan, would you bet on Miami or Boston? OKC or Boston? LAC or Boston?

I think Ford's point is clear, and has some value. That is, more than simple tire kicking. Ainge gets that the time is now to either go one way or the other. So he's listening to all of it. If he can't improve their 'win now' chances -- something he likely feels they need to do to have a serious shot -- then he's going to consider, at the very least, more wholesale adjustments.

What Ford doesn't say, but I believe strongly is the case for the Cs and therefore a major factor, is that Pierce is not going to kept on his current contract this summer under almost any circumstances (other than a banner). He'll be offered a much lower 2 year deal -- say, $7-9mil a year. And who knows if he'll take it.

That likely increases the chances of a more lateral team-changing trade a little bit...

I don't excuse it that much.

This is the same exact thing that happened last year.  Our defense has been great and we have played legitimate teams. And experts count us out every year for the last 3-4 years.

As for his sources, again, I don't doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  I do doubt he wants to pay the prices that are being asked and I do believe he also knows this team seems prepped to be an exact repeat of last year, perhaps with an even better chance of beating Miami.

My issue is it's just the press acts like we weren't the closest team to beating Miami last year.  I know I'm a Celtics fan so yeah, but I still don't get it.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: action781 on January 16, 2013, 03:53:03 PM
I'd be very disappointed in Danny if what Chad Ford reported here were not true.  That is the exact position he should be in.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ScottHow on January 16, 2013, 04:00:32 PM
I've pretty much given up on trying to guess what Ainge does. I didn't see the Perk trade coming at all, and I thought there was gonna be a big shake up last year.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Eddie20 on January 16, 2013, 04:03:21 PM
I'd be very disappointed in Danny if what Chad Ford reported here were not true.  That is the exact position he should be in.

I don't know, if Rondo and/or Pierce are traded there will be some really disappointed people regardless of the return.

The key seems to be acquiring a legitimate big. If we get one, then it'll be really hard to trade away one of our Big 3.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 16, 2013, 04:24:48 PM
Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.

Pretty much.

Also Chad Ford typically down on the Celtics, as he usually seems to be.  Giving us no chance to contend.  He is letting his opinion on that color the possibilities of what he things Ainge will do.

Again, no doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  But that doesn't mean he really has considered that much.  I believe Ainge knows this year could be very similar to last year and our team could very well be better equipped to beat Miami.

Chad Ford is pretty consistently misrepresented on this board. The fact is, he's one of the few 'insiders' who actually talks to real sources.

More importantly, it's very hard to blame him or any other objective observer for looking at the Cs and seeing a less-than-championship caliber team. If you were a Bobcats fan or a Blazers fan or a Kings fan, would you bet on Miami or Boston? OKC or Boston? LAC or Boston?

I think Ford's point is clear, and has some value. That is, more than simple tire kicking. Ainge gets that the time is now to either go one way or the other. So he's listening to all of it. If he can't improve their 'win now' chances -- something he likely feels they need to do to have a serious shot -- then he's going to consider, at the very least, more wholesale adjustments.

What Ford doesn't say, but I believe strongly is the case for the Cs and therefore a major factor, is that Pierce is not going to kept on his current contract this summer under almost any circumstances (other than a banner). He'll be offered a much lower 2 year deal -- say, $7-9mil a year. And who knows if he'll take it.

That likely increases the chances of a more lateral team-changing trade a little bit...

I don't excuse it that much.

This is the same exact thing that happened last year.  Our defense has been great and we have played legitimate teams. And experts count us out every year for the last 3-4 years.

As for his sources, again, I don't doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  I do doubt he wants to pay the prices that are being asked and I do believe he also knows this team seems prepped to be an exact repeat of last year, perhaps with an even better chance of beating Miami.

My issue is it's just the press acts like we weren't the closest team to beating Miami last year.  I know I'm a Celtics fan so yeah, but I still don't get it.

Sure, I just can't blame them for doubting. They're not fans. The Cs haven't won any championships in those years. Teams like the ones I mentioned have improved, not come back to the field.

Marc Stein has pointed out recently that the team the Heat least want to face in the East remains the Celtics. I'm sure that's true. Regardless, it doesn't surprise me that Ainge remains open bigger changes between now and the trade deadline.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: CoachBo on January 16, 2013, 04:55:57 PM
And ... I don't think anyone in the Celtics' front office is going to buy into the notion that a six-game stretch is enough to sound the all-clear.

Nor should they, because it is not.

I don't find Ford's report difficult to believe. At all.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: PhoSita on January 16, 2013, 05:37:44 PM
Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.

Pretty much.

Also Chad Ford typically down on the Celtics, as he usually seems to be.  Giving us no chance to contend.  He is letting his opinion on that color the possibilities of what he things Ainge will do.

Again, no doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  But that doesn't mean he really has considered that much.  I believe Ainge knows this year could be very similar to last year and our team could very well be better equipped to beat Miami.

Chad Ford is pretty consistently misrepresented on this board. The fact is, he's one of the few 'insiders' who actually talks to real sources.

More importantly, it's very hard to blame him or any other objective observer for looking at the Cs and seeing a less-than-championship caliber team. If you were a Bobcats fan or a Blazers fan or a Kings fan, would you bet on Miami or Boston? OKC or Boston? LAC or Boston?

I think Ford's point is clear, and has some value. That is, more than simple tire kicking. Ainge gets that the time is now to either go one way or the other. So he's listening to all of it. If he can't improve their 'win now' chances -- something he likely feels they need to do to have a serious shot -- then he's going to consider, at the very least, more wholesale adjustments.

What Ford doesn't say, but I believe strongly is the case for the Cs and therefore a major factor, is that Pierce is not going to kept on his current contract this summer under almost any circumstances (other than a banner). He'll be offered a much lower 2 year deal -- say, $7-9mil a year. And who knows if he'll take it.

That likely increases the chances of a more lateral team-changing trade a little bit...

Great post.  TP.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: KGs Knee on January 16, 2013, 06:04:46 PM
Just want to make one thing clear.

Paul Pierce will either play for the Celtics next season at his full contract value, or not at all.  League rules prevent any other option.

The final year of Pierce's contract is partially garaunteed.  That is not at all the same as a team/player option.  The only way the Celtics can pay him less than his full value is to cut him from the roster by a certain date.  Once this is done, bird rights are lost.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 16, 2013, 06:13:19 PM
Just want to make one thing clear.

Paul Pierce will either play for the Celtics next season at his full contract value, or not at all.  League rules prevent any other option.

The final year of Pierce's contract is partially garaunteed.  That is not at all the same as a team/player option.  The only way the Celtics can pay him less than his full value is to cut him from the roster by a certain date.  Once this is done, bird rights are lost.

Don't know if the rest is true, but we don't lose his Bird Rights unless he signs with another team, or we renounce rights to him.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 16, 2013, 06:22:10 PM
Just want to make one thing clear.

Paul Pierce will either play for the Celtics next season at his full contract value, or not at all.  League rules prevent any other option.

The final year of Pierce's contract is partially garaunteed.  That is not at all the same as a team/player option.  The only way the Celtics can pay him less than his full value is to cut him from the roster by a certain date.  Once this is done, bird rights are lost.

Yep -- i get he has a partial guarantee.  But I don't believe this is true, yet have no source. Can you provide?

Example: couldn't Kris Joseph have resigned with the Cs on a 10-day contract after being released from his non-guaranteed contract? Didn't Harrellson just do this with the Heat?

Can't see why the Cs couldn't sign Pierce as a UFA...

 
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: snively on January 16, 2013, 06:25:49 PM
Just want to make one thing clear.

Paul Pierce will either play for the Celtics next season at his full contract value, or not at all.  League rules prevent any other option.

The final year of Pierce's contract is partially garaunteed.  That is not at all the same as a team/player option.  The only way the Celtics can pay him less than his full value is to cut him from the roster by a certain date.  Once this is done, bird rights are lost.

Don't know if the rest is true, but we don't lose his Bird Rights unless he signs with another team, or we renounce rights to him.

Doesn't waiving constitute the same thing as renouncing rights?  For example, we didn't have early bird rights to Wilcox after waiving him, correct?
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 16, 2013, 06:38:04 PM
Just want to make one thing clear.

Paul Pierce will either play for the Celtics next season at his full contract value, or not at all.  League rules prevent any other option.

The final year of Pierce's contract is partially garaunteed.  That is not at all the same as a team/player option.  The only way the Celtics can pay him less than his full value is to cut him from the roster by a certain date.  Once this is done, bird rights are lost.

Don't know if the rest is true, but we don't lose his Bird Rights unless he signs with another team, or we renounce rights to him.

Doesn't waiving constitute the same thing as renouncing rights?  For example, we didn't have early bird rights to Wilcox after waiving him, correct?

Nope, you can waive the same player you signed 3 years in a row, and as long as they don't sign with another team, you'd earn his bird rights.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: OsirusCeltics on January 16, 2013, 07:00:20 PM
And the sky is blue!

Seriously though, this is at least slightly interesting, just because it confirms the smoke we have already been seeing, coming from a very plugged in source.  Chad Ford has his weaknesses, and has a major Euro fetish, but he also is one of the more connected "insiders" not named Wojo.  So, if he is hearing that the C's are making everyone available, I believe it.

Of course, it doesn't mean they have reasonable estimations of their players values...but it definitely sounds like they are not sitting pat.

He's really good

1. Wojo
2. Spears
3. Marc Stein

The best IMO
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Celtics18 on January 17, 2013, 01:41:38 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 03:21:58 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Celtics18 on January 17, 2013, 08:04:10 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 17, 2013, 08:11:14 AM
I hate the make news out of nothing reports...

We are happy with the roster but if a deal comes up that makes the team better then we will make it.

Um, duh. That's your job. Great ground breaking journalist work Ford.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: DavorCroatiaFan on January 17, 2013, 08:35:49 AM
Crazy trade idea:
Four team trade:
BOS: out- Rondo, Bass (to Kings), Pierce (to Grizzlies), Green, Melo (to Jazz)
     in- Cousins, Evans, Salmons (from Kings), Gay (from Grizzlies), Millsap (from Jazz)

SAC: out- Cousins, Evans, Salmons (to Celtics), Honeycutt (to Grizzlies)
     in- Rondo, Bass (from Celtics), Pondexter (from Grizzlies)

MEM: out- Gay (to Celtics), Pondexter (to Kings)
     in- Pierce (from Celtics), Honeycutt (from Kings)

UTH: out- Millsap (to Celtics)
     in- Green (from Celtics), Melo(from Celtics)

Sacramento gets franchise player in Rondo, get rid of Salmons contract and time bomb in Cousins.
Memphis saves some money and with Pierce are real title contenders this year
Utah gets something for Millsap,opens minutes for Favors, gets upgrade in SF position, center prospect in Melo
Some draft picks can be included.
And after trade C's rosters would look:
EVANS / TERRY / BARBOSA
BRADLEY / LEE / TERRY
GAY / SALMONS / LEE
GARNETT / MILLSAP / SULLINGER / WILCOX
COUSINS / GARNETT / SULLINGER / WILCOX.

Our rotation of bigs (Garnett,Cousins, Millsap, Sullinger and Wilcox) would be best in the league.
Our backcourt of Evans, Bradley, Terry, Lee and Barbosa one of the most versalite, with defense (Bradley, Lee), shooting (Terry, Barbosa) and all-around talent (Evans).
And dropoff from Pierce to Gay isnt very big.

And best of all, look at the age of our future core:
STARTING LINEUP
Evans ('89), Bradley ('90), Gay ('86), Sullinger ('92), Cousins ('90)
BENCH:
Lee ('85), Millsap ('85).

I know its highly unlikely, but this is the only trade i would do where we trade Rondo and Pierce. It would hurt to see them go, but this trade would make us contenders next 10 years.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ctrey on January 17, 2013, 08:42:12 AM
I have to defend Chad Ford on this one. If you have followed him over the years, you will notice that he has some contacts in the Celtics organization. He has interviewed Danny in the past and I think they talk from time to time. Overall Ford is pretty reasoned and does not throw bombs as it were.

Additionally he has long since given up his Euro fetish. He got Darko wrong. Ok. He admits is and frankly so did a lot of people.

For those Ford haters I leave you with this: In 2006 he ranked Rajon Rondo as the 6th ranked player on his board, the top point guard prospect. Most people slammed him for it. He also stated he thought Rondo would go to Boston at seven and if not most likely slide to Phoenix at 21. Look what happened. He certainly has some insight as to what Boston does draft-wise. We should cut him some slack.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Celtics18 on January 17, 2013, 08:59:39 AM
I have to defend Chad Ford on this one. If you have followed him over the years, you will notice that he has some contacts in the Celtics organization. He has interviewed Danny in the past and I think they talk from time to time. Overall Ford is pretty reasoned and does not throw bombs as it were.

Additionally he has long since given up his Euro fetish. He got Darko wrong. Ok. He admits is and frankly so did a lot of people.

For those Ford haters I leave you with this: In 2006 he ranked Rajon Rondo as the 6th ranked player on his board, the top point guard prospect. Most people slammed him for it. He also stated he thought Rondo would go to Boston at seven and if not most likely slide to Phoenix at 21. Look what happened. He certainly has some insight as to what Boston does draft-wise. We should cut him some slack.

Personally, I'm not trying to hate on Chad Ford or make any comments about his career's work.  I just thought that the statements he made in this particular piece were completely bogus.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 09:08:06 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Celtics18 on January 17, 2013, 09:53:16 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season. 
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2013, 09:57:32 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

  I think you somewhat missed the poster's point. Even if Ainge isn't shopping a player, that player will be available in a trade if the inquiring team offers enough.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 10:18:04 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

 
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2013, 10:40:36 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 10:50:20 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

Regardless, I continue to think all the boo'ing of Ford is pretty useless -- he has far more insight into what's happening behind Ainge & McDonaugh's door than Celtics18 or BBallTim or ssspence...

Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Celtics18 on January 17, 2013, 11:05:17 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three. 
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 11:21:48 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.

Why would the Rockets trade for Harden, giving a max contract, have him explode as one of the league's top scorers, then float trading him? NBA GMs have to be masters of leverage across every player on their roster to be good at their job -- does that sound like a strong tactic to you?

I didn't say untouchable. Other than James and Durant, every player in the league is worse than someone else. Would the Cavs hang up the phone if OKC called up and offering them Durant for Irving? No. Is OKC calling up CLE or anyone else proposing such a trade? No. Is CLE talking about trading Irving with other teams? No.

Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: mctyson on January 17, 2013, 11:22:26 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

I think you are completely incorrect on your first point, which I have highlighted.  Does anyone think that Dan Gilbert, if he could go back in time, would not have traded Lebron in his last year in Cleveland, when he was an MVP and the best player in the league?

Every player is available so long as there is a willing buyer on the other end that is offering similar value (or more).  You say Durant and Lebron are unavailable, but what if Presti called up Riley tomorrow and offered Durant FOR Lebron?  Would Riley say "no way, untouchable?"  I don't think so. 

That of course does not mean the trade would happen - circumstances would have to dictate a trade like that happening, and those circumstances are arguably very, very rare.  But of all the major sports leagues in our country, the NBA is the most suited for superstar-for-superstar trades given the need to match salaries.

So with respect to Danny and the C's: no player is untouchable (maybe save for Garnett with the no-trade clause).  That doesn't mean he is actively trying to trade those guys, but it also doesn't mean he will be gun shy if the right deal comes along.

Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

I think you are completely incorrect on your first point, which I have highlighted.  Does anyone think that Dan Gilbert, if he could go back in time, would not have traded Lebron in his last year in Cleveland, when he was an MVP and the best player in the league?

Every player is available so long as there is a willing buyer on the other end that is offering similar value (or more).  You say Durant and Lebron are unavailable, but what if Presti called up Riley tomorrow and offered Durant FOR Lebron?  Would Riley say "no way, untouchable?"  I don't think so. 

That of course does not mean the trade would happen - circumstances would have to dictate a trade like that happening, and those circumstances are arguably very, very rare.  But of all the major sports leagues in our country, the NBA is the most suited for superstar-for-superstar trades given the need to match salaries.

So with respect to Danny and the C's: no player is untouchable (maybe save for Garnett with the no-trade clause).  That doesn't mean he is actively trying to trade those guys, but it also doesn't mean he will be gun shy if the right deal comes along.

two absolutely ridiculous hypotheticals -- one of which involves a time machine, the other your fantasy league dream. arguing for the sake of arguing. 

Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Moranis on January 17, 2013, 11:34:57 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2013, 11:35:30 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: mctyson on January 17, 2013, 11:39:05 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

I think you are completely incorrect on your first point, which I have highlighted.  Does anyone think that Dan Gilbert, if he could go back in time, would not have traded Lebron in his last year in Cleveland, when he was an MVP and the best player in the league?

Every player is available so long as there is a willing buyer on the other end that is offering similar value (or more).  You say Durant and Lebron are unavailable, but what if Presti called up Riley tomorrow and offered Durant FOR Lebron?  Would Riley say "no way, untouchable?"  I don't think so. 

That of course does not mean the trade would happen - circumstances would have to dictate a trade like that happening, and those circumstances are arguably very, very rare.  But of all the major sports leagues in our country, the NBA is the most suited for superstar-for-superstar trades given the need to match salaries.

So with respect to Danny and the C's: no player is untouchable (maybe save for Garnett with the no-trade clause).  That doesn't mean he is actively trying to trade those guys, but it also doesn't mean he will be gun shy if the right deal comes along.

two absolutely ridiculous hypotheticals -- one of which involves a time machine, the other your fantasy league dream. arguing for the sake of arguing.

No it is not - you are clearly stating that there are a set of players in this league that are never a part of trade talks.  I am telling you that there are times when trading even the best player in the league makes sense (like Gilbert wishes he did in Cleveland).  I am also saying that any player is available if the return is equal or greater, and a perfect example of that would be Durant for James. 

I am sure there was a point when Carmelo Anthony was not in trade discussions, but then his final contract year came and he made it clear he would sign elsewhere.  Guess what?  He got traded.  Same for Dwight Howard.

If Lebron indicates he doesn't want to sign long term with Miami, I bet Riley trades him too.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 11:43:59 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.

Right. Confirmation would be pretty tough to come by, as I point out. So semantics -- maybe I should have used a different term than 'confirm', like 'suggests' or 'implies' or 'leaves the door open'. So why don't I do that for you so this might return to a discussion about Chad Ford's post:

While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It implies what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 11:56:39 AM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

I think you are completely incorrect on your first point, which I have highlighted.  Does anyone think that Dan Gilbert, if he could go back in time, would not have traded Lebron in his last year in Cleveland, when he was an MVP and the best player in the league?

Every player is available so long as there is a willing buyer on the other end that is offering similar value (or more).  You say Durant and Lebron are unavailable, but what if Presti called up Riley tomorrow and offered Durant FOR Lebron?  Would Riley say "no way, untouchable?"  I don't think so. 

That of course does not mean the trade would happen - circumstances would have to dictate a trade like that happening, and those circumstances are arguably very, very rare.  But of all the major sports leagues in our country, the NBA is the most suited for superstar-for-superstar trades given the need to match salaries.

So with respect to Danny and the C's: no player is untouchable (maybe save for Garnett with the no-trade clause).  That doesn't mean he is actively trying to trade those guys, but it also doesn't mean he will be gun shy if the right deal comes along.

two absolutely ridiculous hypotheticals -- one of which involves a time machine, the other your fantasy league dream. arguing for the sake of arguing.

No it is not - you are clearly stating that there are a set of players in this league that are never a part of trade talks.  I am telling you that there are times when trading even the best player in the league makes sense (like Gilbert wishes he did in Cleveland).  I am also saying that any player is available if the return is equal or greater, and a perfect example of that would be Durant for James. 

I am sure there was a point when Carmelo Anthony was not in trade discussions, but then his final contract year came and he made it clear he would sign elsewhere.  Guess what?  He got traded.  Same for Dwight Howard.

If Lebron indicates he doesn't want to sign long term with Miami, I bet Riley trades him too.

Sorry, boss. You can say that I clearly state that there are a group of players that are never ever discussed in trades throughout their entire career, but that won't mean that's what I actually said.

I'm going to finish up here. TP for everyone in the gang.


Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2013, 12:25:41 PM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.

Right. Confirmation would be pretty tough to come by, as I point out. So semantics -- maybe I should have used a different term than 'confirm', like 'suggests' or 'implies' or 'leaves the door open'. So why don't I do that for you so this might return to a discussion about Chad Ford's post:

While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It implies what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  It still looks like you're making non-existent distinctions to support your claim. Houston isn't trying to trade Harden but would if the offer was good enough, therefore he's a fairly untouchable franchise player. Boston isn't trying to trade Rondo but would if another team offered enough, therefore Danny is eager to move Rondo.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 01:13:04 PM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.

Right. Confirmation would be pretty tough to come by, as I point out. So semantics -- maybe I should have used a different term than 'confirm', like 'suggests' or 'implies' or 'leaves the door open'. So why don't I do that for you so this might return to a discussion about Chad Ford's post:

While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It implies what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  It still looks like you're making non-existent distinctions to support your claim. Houston isn't trying to trade Harden but would if the offer was good enough, therefore he's a fairly untouchable franchise player. Boston isn't trying to trade Rondo but would if another team offered enough, therefore Danny is eager to move Rondo.

Show me where I say the Cs aren't trying to trade Rondo? That was your comment.

In the thread, I've claimed that Ford's report is indicative of my perception that Ainge has an ONGOING interest -- an eagerness, if you will -- in finding a deal for Rondo. I also claim that I feel Ainge discusses trading him with other GMs more frequently than a pretty large number of other teams do regarding the individual they'd describe as their best player, as Ainge did very pointedly about Rondo yesterday on CSNNE, and has numerous times this year.

To clarify this, why don't I use a few examples.

I don't believe that HOU has discussed trading Harden this year. I don't believe that MIA has discussed trading James this year. I don't believe that OKC has discussed trading Durant this year. I don't believe that NOP has discussed trading Davis this year. I don't believe that CLE has discussed trading Irving this year. I don't believe that NYK has discussed trading Carmelo this year. I don't believe that LAL has discussed trading Howard this year. I don't believe that LAC has discussed trading Paul this year. I don't believe that POR has discussed trading Aldridge this year. I don't believe that DET has discussed trading Monroe this year. I don't believe that CHI has discussed trading Rose this year. I don't believe that IND has discussed trading George this year. I don't believe that SAN has discussed trading Duncan this year. I don't believe that GSW has discussed trading Curry this year. I do believe that BOS has discussed trading Rondo this year.

Whether you agree with me about any of the above really doesn't matter to me. I just want to be sure I'm being 100% clear so that misrepresentation of my posts in this thread and / or misunderstanding of my POV on Chad Ford's report, might cease to occur and exist, respectively. 

We clear, Tim? I'm going to assume the answer is yes, that we disagree about the teams desire to trade Rondo, and move on to greener fields...

Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Celtics18 on January 17, 2013, 01:14:35 PM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot

And, you wouldn't put Rondo on any of those lists?
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Celtics18 on January 17, 2013, 01:23:33 PM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.

Right. Confirmation would be pretty tough to come by, as I point out. So semantics -- maybe I should have used a different term than 'confirm', like 'suggests' or 'implies' or 'leaves the door open'. So why don't I do that for you so this might return to a discussion about Chad Ford's post:

While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It implies what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  It still looks like you're making non-existent distinctions to support your claim. Houston isn't trying to trade Harden but would if the offer was good enough, therefore he's a fairly untouchable franchise player. Boston isn't trying to trade Rondo but would if another team offered enough, therefore Danny is eager to move Rondo.

Show me where I say the Cs aren't trying to trade Rondo? That was your comment.

In the thread, I've claimed that Ford's report is indicative of my perception that Ainge has an ONGOING interest -- an eagerness, if you will -- in finding a deal for Rondo. I also claim that I feel Ainge discusses trading him with other GMs more frequently than a pretty large number of other teams do regarding the individual they'd describe as their best player, as Ainge did very pointedly about Rondo yesterday on CSNNE, and has numerous times this year.

To clarify this, why don't I use a few examples.

I don't believe that HOU has discussed trading Harden this year. I don't believe that MIA has discussed trading James this year. I don't believe that OKC has discussed trading Durant this year. I don't believe that NOP has discussed trading Davis this year. I don't believe that CLE has discussed trading Irving this year. I don't believe that NYK has discussed trading Carmelo this year. I don't believe that LAL has discussed trading Howard this year. I don't believe that LAC has discussed trading Paul this year. I don't believe that POR has discussed trading Aldridge this year. I don't believe that DET has discussed trading Monroe this year. I don't believe that CHI has discussed trading Rose this year. I don't believe that IND has discussed trading George this year. I don't believe that SAN has discussed trading Duncan this year. I don't believe that GSW has discussed trading Curry this year. I do believe that BOS has discussed trading Rondo this year.

Whether you agree with me about any of the above really doesn't matter to me. I just want to be sure I'm being 100% clear so that misrepresentation of my posts in this thread and / or misunderstanding of my POV on Chad Ford's report, might cease to occur and exist, respectively. 

We clear, Tim?

I checked out the Ainge interview.  I heard absolutely nothing in it that gave me the impression that he was "eager" to trade Rondo. 

Could you clarify what part of that interview gave you that impression?
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2013, 02:24:06 PM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.

Right. Confirmation would be pretty tough to come by, as I point out. So semantics -- maybe I should have used a different term than 'confirm', like 'suggests' or 'implies' or 'leaves the door open'. So why don't I do that for you so this might return to a discussion about Chad Ford's post:

While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It implies what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  It still looks like you're making non-existent distinctions to support your claim. Houston isn't trying to trade Harden but would if the offer was good enough, therefore he's a fairly untouchable franchise player. Boston isn't trying to trade Rondo but would if another team offered enough, therefore Danny is eager to move Rondo.

Show me where I say the Cs aren't trying to trade Rondo? That was your comment.

In the thread, I've claimed that Ford's report is indicative of my perception that Ainge has an ONGOING interest -- an eagerness, if you will -- in finding a deal for Rondo. I also claim that I feel Ainge discusses trading him with other GMs more frequently than a pretty large number of other teams do regarding the individual they'd describe as their best player, as Ainge did very pointedly about Rondo yesterday on CSNNE, and has numerous times this year.

To clarify this, why don't I use a few examples.

I don't believe that HOU has discussed trading Harden this year. I don't believe that MIA has discussed trading James this year. I don't believe that OKC has discussed trading Durant this year. I don't believe that NOP has discussed trading Davis this year. I don't believe that CLE has discussed trading Irving this year. I don't believe that NYK has discussed trading Carmelo this year. I don't believe that LAL has discussed trading Howard this year. I don't believe that LAC has discussed trading Paul this year. I don't believe that POR has discussed trading Aldridge this year. I don't believe that DET has discussed trading Monroe this year. I don't believe that CHI has discussed trading Rose this year. I don't believe that IND has discussed trading George this year. I don't believe that SAN has discussed trading Duncan this year. I don't believe that GSW has discussed trading Curry this year. I do believe that BOS has discussed trading Rondo this year.

Whether you agree with me about any of the above really doesn't matter to me. I just want to be sure I'm being 100% clear so that misrepresentation of my posts in this thread and / or misunderstanding of my POV on Chad Ford's report, might cease to occur and exist, respectively. 

We clear, Tim?

  I didn't misrepresent your post at all. The Chad Ford report said that trading Rondo wasn't seen as off the table. Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered? If that's your belief, I'd say you don't have a very realistic view of the nba at all.

  If you realize that most of the teams you listed refusing to entertain *any* trade proposals involving the players listed above is nonsensical, then you should realize that they *aren't* off the table in trade talks. In other words, in the same situation as Rondo, and any claim that Danny's more eager to trade Rondo than those teams are to trade those players is based on your interpreting the same situation different ways for different players to suit your opinion of Rondo.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 03:23:23 PM

Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered?

I'm not trying to say anything. I've not touched nor am I remotely interested in the theoretical untouchablility of any player in the league.

I get this fantasy point you're making -- even if I think its worthless (no offense). Everything is always on the table at every NBA stop because there's always a player or combo of players who is better than your best. Yes yes.... got it. What does that have to do with the actual NBA?
 
Do i think exploring the corners of this theory on csblog means its even remotely feasible that Riley calls Presti every couple of days and says: "Will you trade me Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka for James, Wade and Bosh? Just checking again"? Of course not. Do you?

Do I think the average NBA GM frequently discusses trading his best player... weekly, monthly, even yearly? "Hey Neil, I'd be open to sending you Irving if you'll send me back Paul. Just checking again." Of course not. Do you?
 
There are no reports about the players I listed being 'on the table'. There are no reports about these teams looking to trade these listed players because they don't want to trade these players, and aren't shameless enough to call an opposing team and ask for James, Durant, etc, and risk damaging their credibility with opposing GMs and player agents when they need to make a real blockbuster trade that involve circumstances beyond pure basketball (eg, Paul from New Orleans, Howard from Orlando, etc).

Do I think Ainge kicks alot more tires on trading Rondo than the GMs of the teams I listed do on said players? Yep. And that's why reports on Rondo like Ford's are far more frequent than you hear about those other teams and players.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's no smoke on any of these other situations, though there is with Rudy Gay (because they want to trade him), and Josh Smith (because they want to trade him), and so on...
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Moranis on January 17, 2013, 03:52:29 PM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot

And, you wouldn't put Rondo on any of those lists?
No. I think Ainge would love to move Rondo if he could get a couple of young players at least one of which has proven to at least be good (like the rumored trade for Steph Curry last year).  I don't believe Ainge thinks Rondo is the type of player to build around, but also recognizes he is very good and has a nice contract so he isn't just going to dump him.  For example, I think Ainge would move Rondo for Cousins and wouldn't give it a second thought.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2013, 04:07:00 PM

Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered?

I'm not trying to say anything. I've not touched nor am I remotely interested in the theoretical untouchablility of any player in the league.

  I agree, you're trying to imply that many players are untouchable but you don't want to make the claim because it's so silly. You're claiming (for example) that Detroit hasn't had any discussions involving trading Monroe all year. There are two possible explanations for this. Either there's no team in the nba that has an interest in acquiring Monroe or that Detroit has made it known throughout the league that he's not available for trade no matter what the offer.

  Which is it? No interest in the players you listed, or are they untouchable? Again, you aren't "trying" to say they're untouchable, you're just trying to imply it.


There are no reports about the players I listed being 'on the table'. There are no reports about these teams looking to trade these listed players because they don't want to trade these players, and aren't shameless enough to call an opposing team and ask for James, Durant, etc, and risk their credibility when they need to make a real blockbuster trade that involve circumstances beyond pure basketball (eg, Paul from New Orleans, Howard from Orlando, etc)

  Again, it may or may not be true that none of these teams are looking to trade these players, but there's no report of Ainge trying to trade Rondo. In fact every time you hear a rumor that the Celts are shopping Rondo you hear Ainge (who's basically confirmed other rumors in the past) deny that the Celts are trying to trade Rondo.


Do I think Ainge kicks alot more tires on trading Rondo than the GMs of the teams I listed do on said players? Yep. And that's why reports on Rondo like Ford's are far more frequent than you hear about those other teams and players.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's no smoke on any of these other situations, though there is with Rudy Gay (because they want to trade him), and Josh Smith (because they want to trade him), blah blah blah...

  You're fairly certain that Danny's eager to trade Rondo for a "more traditional franchise player". Who did you have in mind as a trading partner? It's true that Danny kicks the tires more than a lot of gms (which obviously isn't a reflection on Rondo, it's the way Danny operates). But which tires do you imagine that he'd kick?

  You're claiming that most of the players who would fit into that category haven't been discussed in trades all year. How would Danny look into trading Rondo for (for example) Monroe or Aldridge without the other teams discussing those players with Danny?
 
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2013, 04:13:24 PM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot

And, you wouldn't put Rondo on any of those lists?
No. I think Ainge would love to move Rondo if he could get a couple of young players at least one of which has proven to at least be good (like the rumored trade for Steph Curry last year).  I don't believe Ainge thinks Rondo is the type of player to build around, but also recognizes he is very good and has a nice contract so he isn't just going to dump him.  For example, I think Ainge would move Rondo for Cousins and wouldn't give it a second thought.

  So you're under the impression that Danny wouldn't trade KG for players like Bosh, Griffin, Love, Horford or Aldridge but he'd trade Rondo for a couple of young player, one of which needs to be "good"? Yikes.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: ssspence on January 17, 2013, 04:34:33 PM

Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered?

I'm not trying to say anything. I've not touched nor am I remotely interested in the theoretical untouchablility of any player in the league.

  I agree, you're trying to imply that many players are untouchable but you don't want to make the claim because it's so silly. You're claiming (for example) that Detroit hasn't had any discussions involving trading Monroe all year. There are two possible explanations for this. Either there's no team in the nba that has an interest in acquiring Monroe or that Detroit has made it known throughout the league that he's not available for trade no matter what the offer.

  Which is it? No interest in the players you listed, or are they untouchable? Again, you aren't "trying" to say they're untouchable, you're just trying to imply it.


There are no reports about the players I listed being 'on the table'. There are no reports about these teams looking to trade these listed players because they don't want to trade these players, and aren't shameless enough to call an opposing team and ask for James, Durant, etc, and risk their credibility when they need to make a real blockbuster trade that involve circumstances beyond pure basketball (eg, Paul from New Orleans, Howard from Orlando, etc)

  Again, it may or may not be true that none of these teams are looking to trade these players, but there's no report of Ainge trying to trade Rondo. In fact every time you hear a rumor that the Celts are shopping Rondo you hear Ainge (who's basically confirmed other rumors in the past) deny that the Celts are trying to trade Rondo.


Do I think Ainge kicks alot more tires on trading Rondo than the GMs of the teams I listed do on said players? Yep. And that's why reports on Rondo like Ford's are far more frequent than you hear about those other teams and players.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's no smoke on any of these other situations, though there is with Rudy Gay (because they want to trade him), and Josh Smith (because they want to trade him), blah blah blah...

  You're fairly certain that Danny's eager to trade Rondo for a "more traditional franchise player". Who did you have in mind as a trading partner? It's true that Danny kicks the tires more than a lot of gms (which obviously isn't a reflection on Rondo, it's the way Danny operates). But which tires do you imagine that he'd kick?

  You're claiming that most of the players who would fit into that category haven't been discussed in trades all year. How would Danny look into trading Rondo for (for example) Monroe or Aldridge without the other teams discussing those players with Danny?
 

I don't think even you know what point you're trying to make here anymore, I don't know what Ainge denials you're referring to, and I'm not interested at all in your POV on Rondo's trade value.

I'll remember to avoid direct conversations with you in the future. Best of luck, and be well.

Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Celtics18 on January 17, 2013, 05:42:47 PM
Look, I still think it's completely bogus.  I have never seen any legitimate evidence that Danny Ainge is actively trying to shop Rajon Rondo.  Unfortunately, for Rajon, the writers, bloggers, and twitterers out there know that Rondo is a polarizing force among Celtics fans and they also know that Danny's policy is to not deny or confirm specific rumors.  This adds up to a field day for false Rondo rumors. 

When fans write that they think that Ainge is "eager" to deal Rondo, I believe that what they mean is that they are "eager" for Ainge to move Rondo.  These fans and bloggers only lead credence to rumors that were false to begin with.  It's a vicious cycle.

Anyway, I'll just keep my fingers crossed and wait for the deadline to pass. 
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: Birdman on January 17, 2013, 05:57:41 PM
Rondo isnt going anywhere
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: scaryjerry on January 17, 2013, 06:02:45 PM
What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot

And, you wouldn't put Rondo on any of those lists?
No. I think Ainge would love to move Rondo if he could get a couple of young players at least one of which has proven to at least be good (like the rumored trade for Steph Curry last year).  I don't believe Ainge thinks Rondo is the type of player to build around, but also recognizes he is very good and has a nice contract so he isn't just going to dump him.  For example, I think Ainge would move Rondo for Cousins and wouldn't give it a second thought.

  So you're under the impression that Danny wouldn't trade KG for players like Bosh, Griffin, Love, Horford or Aldridge but he'd trade Rondo for a couple of young player, one of which needs to be "good"? Yikes.

yikes indeed. apparently Ricky Rubio is more of a franchise player then rondo. I agree with the majority of the players on that list but not adding rondo somewhere when pierce makes the list is laughable and a waste of the time it took to type including the fact that some players on the list have already been traded..deron Williams really? wouldn't trade rondo for him if my life depended on it
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: BballTim on January 17, 2013, 06:47:27 PM

Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered?

I'm not trying to say anything. I've not touched nor am I remotely interested in the theoretical untouchablility of any player in the league.

  I agree, you're trying to imply that many players are untouchable but you don't want to make the claim because it's so silly. You're claiming (for example) that Detroit hasn't had any discussions involving trading Monroe all year. There are two possible explanations for this. Either there's no team in the nba that has an interest in acquiring Monroe or that Detroit has made it known throughout the league that he's not available for trade no matter what the offer.

  Which is it? No interest in the players you listed, or are they untouchable? Again, you aren't "trying" to say they're untouchable, you're just trying to imply it.


There are no reports about the players I listed being 'on the table'. There are no reports about these teams looking to trade these listed players because they don't want to trade these players, and aren't shameless enough to call an opposing team and ask for James, Durant, etc, and risk their credibility when they need to make a real blockbuster trade that involve circumstances beyond pure basketball (eg, Paul from New Orleans, Howard from Orlando, etc)

  Again, it may or may not be true that none of these teams are looking to trade these players, but there's no report of Ainge trying to trade Rondo. In fact every time you hear a rumor that the Celts are shopping Rondo you hear Ainge (who's basically confirmed other rumors in the past) deny that the Celts are trying to trade Rondo.


Do I think Ainge kicks alot more tires on trading Rondo than the GMs of the teams I listed do on said players? Yep. And that's why reports on Rondo like Ford's are far more frequent than you hear about those other teams and players.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's no smoke on any of these other situations, though there is with Rudy Gay (because they want to trade him), and Josh Smith (because they want to trade him), blah blah blah...

  You're fairly certain that Danny's eager to trade Rondo for a "more traditional franchise player". Who did you have in mind as a trading partner? It's true that Danny kicks the tires more than a lot of gms (which obviously isn't a reflection on Rondo, it's the way Danny operates). But which tires do you imagine that he'd kick?

  You're claiming that most of the players who would fit into that category haven't been discussed in trades all year. How would Danny look into trading Rondo for (for example) Monroe or Aldridge without the other teams discussing those players with Danny?
 

I don't think even you know what point you're trying to make here anymore, I don't know what Ainge denials you're referring to, and I'm not interested at all in your POV on Rondo's trade value.

  In the time since Ainge explored a Rondo/Paul trade he's had multiple interviews where he denied that the current Rondo trade rumors were true and said that the Celts had no interest in trading Rondo. I'd say that your lack of knowledge of any of those interviews figures significantly into your assuredness that Danny's eager to trade Rondo. And I didn't discuss my POV on Rondo's trade value, Ijust questioned how you think Danny's able to kick the tires on Rondo for traditional franchise players when you think that the teams those players are on haven't discussed any trades involving those players. Apparently Danny's been kicking non-existent tires.
Title: Re: Chad Ford on C's
Post by: D.o.s. on January 17, 2013, 10:02:22 PM
Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.

Pretty much.

Also Chad Ford typically down on the Celtics, as he usually seems to be.  Giving us no chance to contend.  He is letting his opinion on that color the possibilities of what he things Ainge will do.

Again, no doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  But that doesn't mean he really has considered that much.  I believe Ainge knows this year could be very similar to last year and our team could very well be better equipped to beat Miami.

Chad Ford is pretty consistently misrepresented on this board. The fact is, he's one of the few 'insiders' who actually talks to real sources.

More importantly, it's very hard to blame him or any other objective observer for looking at the Cs and seeing a less-than-championship caliber team. If you were a Bobcats fan or a Blazers fan or a Kings fan, would you bet on Miami or Boston? OKC or Boston? LAC or Boston?

I think Ford's point is clear, and has some value. That is, more than simple tire kicking. Ainge gets that the time is now to either go one way or the other. So he's listening to all of it. If he can't improve their 'win now' chances -- something he likely feels they need to do to have a serious shot -- then he's going to consider, at the very least, more wholesale adjustments.

What Ford doesn't say, but I believe strongly is the case for the Cs and therefore a major factor, is that Pierce is not going to kept on his current contract this summer under almost any circumstances (other than a banner). He'll be offered a much lower 2 year deal -- say, $7-9mil a year. And who knows if he'll take it.

That likely increases the chances of a more lateral team-changing trade a little bit...

I don't excuse it that much.

This is the same exact thing that happened last year.  Our defense has been great and we have played legitimate teams. And experts count us out every year for the last 3-4 years.

As for his sources, again, I don't doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  I do doubt he wants to pay the prices that are being asked and I do believe he also knows this team seems prepped to be an exact repeat of last year, perhaps with an even better chance of beating Miami.

My issue is it's just the press acts like we weren't the closest team to beating Miami last year.  I know I'm a Celtics fan so yeah, but I still don't get it.

For what it's worth, that was probably the Pacers (before they totally wigged out and stopped hitting hibbert and west with the ball for the last couple games.)